From Apps to Assets: Fintech’s Leap into Crypto - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2025

Welcome, welcome. Exciting day. Uh we have uh exciting panel ahead title from apps to assets fintex leap into crypto. A lot of cover four very distinguished speakers. Um don't want to waste more time.

Let's jump straight in. Maybe let's start with May do a quick introduction of yourself and when do you first get into a crypto role in your company? It's really great to to see all the energy and excitement around. So, I'm May Sabanet, um, head of crypto at uh, PayPal. Um, it also covers all the Venmo activity on crypto and um, I've been in this role for about four to five years now.

John,

hi everyone. Thanks for coming out. Um, my name is John. I recently joined Koshi a few weeks ago. I have yet to get a professional headsh shot.

Um, but really excited to be here.

Mazanjundi. I've been with Revolute for four years now. I'm the global business head of crypto. Thank you for having me.

Hey, I'm John. I lead the crypto business at Robin Hood. Uh been at the company for about 5 years.

Yeah, we've seen a surge in crypto adoption among fintex firm. All of you are involved in it. Are users pulling fintech into crypto or are fintex pushing crypto into users? Where do you see the stronger force right now with Johan? Yeah, I mean I I think you know user have been asking for crypto for a long time and if anything it was really hard to get access to it.

There was like a few apps like Coinbase and everything but for for a very long time you could not access crypto if you were using a bank account or um you could not even fund uh an account with your debit card or your credit card for a long time. So I think it's definitely a combination of these clear regulations that are being put in place and also the customer demand that is driving this this adoption in all the fintech. So I think our customers have had a strong demand for crypto over the last few years. Uh I wouldn't say it's fair to say Revolute is pushing crypto onto its customers. We prioritize safety and compliance, but we do listen to our customers.

So you could say it's a symbiotic relationship, but it's definitely customer demand that's driving our crypto product offering.

John,

yeah, I think at Koshi, um, crypto is very additive to our product offering. Um, you know, we have a higher cap for crypto compared to like, uh, credit cards and debit cards and the the speed of transfers that you can get, um, also are really great. So I think, uh, you know, it's kind of like a very symbiotic relationship.

And for us, very similar themes. We we have a term called like being customerbacked which is basically understanding customers needs from safety security to also accessibility and giving them easy ways to be able to enter into crypto and that was really important for us from especially for our Venmo and PayPal users to be able to introduce to these millions of users like a very simple and easy and intuitive way to be able to access crypto.

Yeah. So which factors matter most for fintex leap into crypto? Um, do you think it's user demand, regulatory clarity, infrastructure maturity or something else?

I can go first. I think from a fintex perspective, regulatory clarity comes a long way. So, at Revolute, customer safety and customer protection is at the core of our product strategy. And one of the ways to do that is to have a clear understanding of regulation in every jurisdiction we operate in. And I'm happy to see that over the past year that regulatory clarity has come to fruition.

In the United States, we've seen it with um the Genius Act. Europe we have MA and that helps pave the way for roll out of crypto products in a safe and compliant manner. And I think safety is something our customers really want and need and that's something we seek to provide to all our customer base. similar I think in in in vaneer. I think we're I think regulatory really helps especially the traditional players really unlock the doors.

I think MAS obviously here in Singapore is a really strong um regulator and been kind of leading on that front and I think the US it was a massive move. It's a first crypto legislation on stable coins and that really opened the door and helped legitimize for more of the traditional players to enter. Um, we've been at it a little bit longer from a traditional player perspective because we fundamentally believe in like revolutionizing money movement and the rails and things should be faster, better, cheaper for the world. Um, so that's uh, so yeah, I'd agree on regulatory, but I think also like you can't forget like things have to work. So it can't be that you have the clarity and then the infrastructure is not there.

Like it's got to have all the same basic principles, easy to use UX. It's got to be available real time. It's got to be able to be present and operate in ways that are seamless for people to be able to access.

Yeah. I I think one thing that we have to also be mindful is that, you know, regulatory clarity has started, but it's far from from being there. Um, you know, we have the Genius Act in the US, but we're still waiting on the the market structure. Um, if you look at perpetuals, it's it's not regulated in in Singapore, it's regulated in the EU, it doesn't exist yet in the US. Um, so, so there's still like a long road I think for for us to really have like the right rules for for every product that people are looking for.

Um, but I think at the end of the day, like what people are excited about is uh being able to use this product in a way that is uh 24/7 um instant, you know, without fees or very little fees. And I think that's been our focus. So when we launched some of our new products um like uh stock token that are like a version of um of uh equities that gives you like exposure to equities basically uh our main focus was to make sure that people don't even understand uh what is the the aspect of the token and they don't need to understand that because it's as easy to use as if they were buying a normal stock.

Yeah. Yeah. So, Kouchi is a prediction market platform and you know we um helped legalize event contracts in the United States as a new asset class. Um building user trust and uh and sort of having a good good product experience while staying legally compliant is our number one priority. um you know we could have sort of taken a shortcut to to offshore or or build um like in a non-legally compliant way but you know at KI um our founders chose to really play the long game and spent three years trying to legalize prediction markets in the United States including like suing the CFTC and winning that and so I think regulatory clarity is is like a dialogue of like um figuring out between industry uh partners and also the regulators in what's it's what's going forward.

And I think yesterday there was a a few days ago there was a SEC CFTC roundt with Koshi and um also other industry leaders such as like the CEOs of NASDAQ, New York Stock Exchange and CME and um we're really excited to to like work with um regulators and industry leaders in in like paving a path forward for financial innovation in the United States.

So Fintex abstracted a lot of crypto's complexity. So all of you must have done something to kind of simplify this. What's one design decision where you intentionally simplified crypto for users?

I I can give two examples from

this is actually a personal story that I think may resonate with some of you. A couple of years ago, uh, a my friends and I went to Europe and, you know, after every trip, there's always some bills you need to settle between one another. And of course, we have the likes of PayPal and Venmo that come in handy when you're in the US, but when you're traveling abroad, then you need to use different platforms and different banking systems. And what happened here was the following. I had one friend who had Revolute, but they only had crypto on their platform.

I had another friend who wanted to receive Swiss Franks because they're based in Switzerland. And what was amazing about this is we have a remittance product that is able to convert any asset class into any asset class and send it from point A to B within a matter of a few clicks. So what this means is person A selected their ETH balance, selected how much they want to send and it just showed the dollar equivalent and they selected Swiss Franks as the destination currency to the end user which is just the username and within a couple of clicks the whole transaction went through and the amount was debited and the recipient's account. This whole process took a few seconds. Now imagine you had to do it the traditional way.

You have a trading platform. You want to sell the crypto, convert it to fiat, send the fiat back to your bank account, for example, do the bank wire internationally, deposit it for an exchange to the end uh fiat currency, extra fees, extra days, probably about five day process end to end. And we did it within a matter of a few clicks. So, I'd say that's one example of abstracted complexity.

Yeah. I I think one where we we're really excited about is we recently launched perpetuals in in the EU. And so one of the thing that we realize is when people trade per they have to enter their profit or tech loss. Um and everything looks like a spreadsheet. You you have to look at the price.

You have to update real time like what's going on and and where you want the the profit or loss to to be at. So what we did is we launched this ladder that is updating in real time. So you will see the price of the assets. Um, and with just a swipe of a finger, you're able to set your profit or lo and basically just do that all the time that you want to update your orders. And I think for the main reason we wanted to do that is really giving the tools to people to make sure that um they can safely uh trade with per um you know we've been very happy to see like how people have been engaging with it.

I can I can throw in a merchant angle. They recently um announced a product called pay with crypto and what that is is essentially a merchant can put a pay with crypto like button on their site. Um and it allows global users around the world, right? Um to be able to then pay with the crypto that they have in whatever wallet that they have um on that merchant site. And the complexity that we helped remove for these merchants is a couple things.

one is the most fundamental is not every merchant wants to be able to touch crypto because it's still a little bit new to them and and so what we said is let's abstract that and just let them settle in fiat so they can just settle in the currencies that they're used to that is part of their operating process and then two they already have a relationship with PayPal because of our processing they do processing with us and this is just a simple extension very low effort for them to just enable um pay with crypto on their website and instantly attract new customers and also just fundamentally offer cheaper processing rates for merchants which is significant for them. Um when you think of all the different costs that that there are.

Yeah, I think with crypto um one of the missing gaps in in like trading and and products is being able to uh speculate or get exposure to projects that don't yet have a tradable token. Um and this is kind of like done existing ways with point speculation or um looking at how you know how we can get like different proxies. But prediction markets offer like a very elegant way to um sort of be able to uh make a trade or um have an opinion on an event or an outcome before like or a project before they have a tradable token. So, we recently released pre-markets on our crypto tab, and I think that feature is like going to be really good for simplifying and very intuitively giving people a way to trade on these types of projects.

Let me let me flip this question next. Like, is there a feature where you refuse to expose something too complex for the average user?

Oh, is that a question for me? any anyone for you like if you have any like something that you did not expose because crypto is way too complex and then just ab just hide it just not just don't build that feature because complex um one thing that we started to refuse to do is um hiding spreads and um adding fees in every single possible ways. I I think one thing that we realized talking to customer has been it's really hard to understand like how much it costs to buy you know bitcoin or ethereum or something on a platform and to compare with different platform because uh some are getting uh you know payments for order flow some are getting a spread some are getting uh a fee and some are getting a combination of the of the three. Um so our main focus for us has been to invest in this transparency. So you know when you go on the flow you will see exactly the spread.

Uh you will see how much money we make and you know there's nothing else that is added or nothing else that is different. Um and the the reason why we we decided to do this is because we think that if we really want to get people into the space you know they can't just get to pay fee on every single step. And and when you think about you know the world of crypto you need to on ram to your own wallet so you pay a fee and then on the wallet you swap so you pay a fee. Um, and it's just a very frustrating experience for for most users. You know, they want to buy an NFT.

By the time they have the NFT, they already paid fees two or three times. Um, so I think that's something that we need as a community of of companies to to work on and make sure that, you know, people really understand what's going on. And thanks to that, we will see more people actually engaging with the products. Yeah, I don't really have one, but I I have I mean I think we what we do is we use it as a fundamental design principle, which is I think exactly where he was going. It's like it's a core part of when we want to build a product, it's got to have simplicity and whatever is not needed for the user that is not meaningful for them to make a decision or like have all the information they need then then we need to abstract that complexity otherwise it can be so complex um and people get overwhelmed with that.

So, and that's a real challenge, right, in designing products, being able to ensure you have the right information that helps them along the journey, still educates them, but uh but doesn't overwhelm

because realistically like nobody understands how a payment even works today in the fiat world. No consumer does.

They just like I gave you money and that's it. And so, we need to bring those same principles back into crypto.

Yeah.

For Yeah. For Koshi, we have um you know, deposits and withdrawals in crypto. Um and we're like our onchain flow for that is like chain agnostic and so I think simplifying it so that for the user it's like a very simple experience doesn't matter what chain you're coming from um you get the same like user experience plus giving them all the necessary details to feel confident in like the transaction flows and every step is kind of secure and they can track um like the the flow of of money um is really important.

Yeah. Maybe maybe some next questions uh for for for John first. Uh Koshi recently launched a blockchain ecosystem hub uh with Solana and base. What's the killer use case you would love to see a builder launch on your ecosystem?

Yeah, this is one of the most exciting initiatives um I've had to do uh in my first month of the company. Um so uh we launched a builder grant program in partnership with Salana and Bass. Um so really excited to have builders um from all over the world developing on top of Koshi. Um we we really want to treat this as as kind of like an ecosystem layer. Uh I think the most exciting thing is verticalized frontends.

And so you know with with prediction markets we have a lot of different categories from sports to politics to crypto to culture. Um and I think all of these have different information flows and context flows. And so our sports um platform might look like like a the UI might look like a calendar and then for politics it might have be a map with with a crypto it might be charts and so I think there's like a lot of like verticalization that can take place that these like longtail uh or grassroots ecosystem developers can do.

Yeah. Yeah. Johan, I have next question for you. Um Robin Hood acquired Bit Stam and Wonderfy. Um you know you guys launched stock tokens and you tease the Robin Hood L2.

um what do these acquisitions and initiatives unlock for Robin Hood and what does the endgame look like for you guys at Robin Hood?

Yeah, we we've been uh we've been cooking, you know, the past the past few years. So, um I I think for us the vision for for Robin Hood is that uh we want anyone in the world to be able to use Robin Hood to manage all their finance and finance doesn't mean anymore just equities or just option. It also means crypto. also means uh real world assets like uh real estate and and other assets uh classes. And so we we've thought about it for a long time and we're like okay well we have two options.

One is we can rebuild Robin Hood the way we built it in the US and you know create it for every single country in the world. It's going to take time. It's going to be slow um and probably expensive for for the company and for the users. or you know there's this new technology uh with crypto where we can actually take uh what we built in the US and expand it almost um across the world in in a in a swift and basically with that we're able to reproduce with stock tokens kind of the same um uh details for the user like at the end of the day they can trade 400 uh US stocks um uh stock tokens that will give them exposure to the to the underlying and thanks to that they are able to have the same kind of app for crypto, for um the stock tokens and for perpetuals. And we think that we can adapt that across the world.

Um we'll have to just keep getting the right licenses in some of the places and making sure that we can adapt and localize to the country for for the need. But you know, with the crypto rails, we'll have 247 and instant rails for everything.

Yeah. uh for May um you guys launched PYUSD and expanded this to Ethereum, Solana, Arbitum, Stella. Where are you seeing merchant real merchant volumes coming by today? And beyond consumer payments, do you see PYUSD powering working capital or B2B settlements at scale?

Yeah. So, we're um because we have like decades long of payments expertise. So, we're really passionate about the payments aspect of it and for both sides of our network for both consumers as well as merchants. And so, um, with PYSC, we're now able to give consumers and merchants actually an ecosystem to earn, send, and spend, right? So, we have rewards 4% rewards in our in our wallets if you hold PYUSD.

you have the ability to send and spend it through send through our checkout products um and or send to um to your friends and and family anywhere obviously all over the world and so it's a it's a really powerful and meaning for us and and purpose driven. So as we think about now like the next evolution and how do you take that more into that the base of consumers and merchants we're focusing a lot around the merchant side of the house. So the recent announcements of pay with crypto and you'll continue to see us delving into that because a lot of those things and complexities we've talked about right the complexities of crossber payments especially it really hits like small merchants even more right processing costs are a lot more expensive for small merchants the ability to move money in international wires actually like Maz you were talking about is really painful for small merchants that operate on such low margins. So introducing crypto to them in ways that can they can operate their business and to B2B payments and being able to really simplify whether it's speed, whether it's cost savings and and really help um drive the economy in more meaningful ways is like some things we're really excited about.

M Revolute has lately been given a $75 billion valuation. Congrats. Crypto is obviously a significant part of this. Um maybe can you share with us the keys to scaling so quickly?

Yeah, say that number again.

$75 billion. Uh Revolute's had a phenomenal growth story. Uh crypto is definitely a part of it. But I have to give credit to all the other product lines and teams 13,000 plus employees across the world who have contributed to that growth story in the context of crypto. I would say four key things have contributed to the growth at Revolute.

One is superior product design and user experience. The company prides itself in building the best products and having the best design that we can offer to our users so that anytime you use our app, it's intuitive. It's easy to use. In a nutshell, if your grandmother can't figure out how to use it within 5 to 10 seconds, then you're probably doing something wrong. And we want to make sure anyone can use the app and understand what to do and get what they need done in a matter of seconds.

So I'd say that's number one. Number two is financial literacy. We built an education tool called learn and earn and this product rolled out probably about three years ago. We didn't think much of the product at the time but the adoption of it has been quite eye opening. And what learn and earn is basically this.

We built small tutorials on various crypto projects that have onboarded to our platform. So if we launch token X, token X can build a small tutorial about their project. You can learn about the company, the technology, the token itself. Through a few screens, the average user can learn about the token itself. And at the end of that, there's a little quiz.

And when they complete that quiz, they get rewarded in that crypto. Hence the name learn and earn. What we've seen is now over the course of three years more than 7 million people have taken that tutorial and that's a way you teach people about crypto get them engaged and get them to adopt the platform and that's what Revolute prides itself in we are a bridge between web 2 and web 3 and we're helping people on board to web 3. So the financial literacy component I think definitely helped with the scaling. The third piece is value.

Everyone can trade and speculate and make money. But until you start providing real value to a user in a day-to-day use case, meaning whatever you do in your lives, if we can't help you improve your life in your day-to-day activity, you're probably not going to engage with the product much more. I'll give one example of a product we launched last year called Crypto Cards. Cryptocards allows you to spend your crypto in day-to-day transactions. So, we all have our phones, Apple Pay, Google Pay.

You go to a coffee shop, you tap pay and get your coffee, for example. With crypto cards, it's the same thing except it's a crypto card rather than a credit card or a debit card. And we allow you to tap pay and use your credit and settle with the merchant directly. All the complexity is abstracted completely. All you need to do is just tap and pay.

But we convert your crypto into fiat and then we settle with the merchant over fiat rails. The last component, which I think is most important, is safety and compliance. We make sure our customers feel safe and protected. Your money is safe with us. Your crypto is safe with us.

And I think that's why our users felt safe operating within our platform. And I think those four points combined have helped scale us from when I joined the company, we were 35 million customers. Today we're over 65 million across 39 different countries.

So um looking ahead, curious to hear from all of you. Where do you see things going from where we are today? And then I'm also curious like how do you see success internally? What are your northstar metrics that you guys drive towards internally as well? Let me start with Johan here.

Um yeah, I I think for us the northstar metric is really the amount of asset that we can uh tokenize and offer to to our customer. Um if you think about you know the the world of um all the asset that exist, there's only a very limited portion that are accessible to everyday users. So um you know from a private stock where uh if in the US you're not accredited you're not allowed to actually engage with it. Um to real estate if you're not you know wealthy you're not able to necessarily buy uh places across the world. Um so what we really think is that we need to find a way to actually bridge that gap between the the ultra wealthy and uh the the everyday people to make sure that they have access to to all these um assets.

And so for us that's going to be the northstar metric. Making sure that we give access. Um the amount of people that can actually engage with product is really important for us and to do it like we said before um in a compliant way, safe way. But at the end of the day, I think you know we won't be um resting until we see that everyone can access all this product across the world.

Uh

go ahead.

Okay. Yeah, sure. Um I think for for Kawashi uh we I I see the next 10x unlocked for our platform to be um building new financial primitives and new modalities on top of Koshi as an infrastructure platform for developers and and so I think um you know one KPI that um that I have personally is um to ensure like a diverse set of developers building really interesting and innovative applications ranging from data dashboards to oracles pushing offchain data onchain to tokenizing positions and lending and um you know the kind of like very creative things and um you know I think uh crypto is like core to this strategy because we've as an industry perfected this playbook of um building financial applications on top of developer platforms with like layer ones and layer 2s um and sort of like exchanges is an infrastructure platforms um and so you know the global permissionless financial rails that are programmable for crypto um you know we wouldn't be able to do this without

me you want to go

thank um so for us it's when we think about it it's really about access and uh and utility and those are two fundamental kind of pillars that we really kind of hold ourselves against and have objectives around and from that one of the major KPIs we have is not only like adoption um like merchant and and consumer adoption but also just transaction volume like while I know it Today when you look at like stable coins and the use of stable coins, they're obviously predominantly like 95%ish and the range all on trading but we see a massive emergence towards more payment use cases. And so as we start to think of access, we start to think which means inclusion of people anywhere around the world to be able to access in their imagine their PayPal wallets the ability to hold um PYUSD a stable currency which helps them hedge against um you know their own currencies inflation and protects their economic livelihoods. And so that's really important for us. And then when we think of utility it's ensuring that it's I mean it's it can be everywhere where money movement is right. And so that part is is incredibly important to continue to drive and especially in crossber where I think there's a perfect product market fit for stable coins to be able to solve such high pain points when you think about it in the system.

So that's really what drives us. That's what you're going to continue to see more from us and and you know we we're going to hold ourselves against the adoption as well as the the volume that we can start to build towards uh driving this forward.

Northstar. Okay. Northstar, Northstar metric. What do you look at internally? What does success look like?

I

I'll give you our crypto northstar and then uh Revolute overall northstar.

Our crypto northstar is just to be the safest and most accessible crypto provider in the entire world. That's it. In terms of Revolute, uh our founder and CEO has clearly defined the north star for all of us, which is 100 million customers, 100 markets, and we have to get there as quickly as we can. What about uh Koshi? Do you have any Oh, you mentioned this now, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So, we have some time extra some extra time. So, I'm going to go through some uh lightning round questions. Let's see. Um, what's a crypto features that your users love the most and surprise you? um recently for us um I I don't know if it's the most loved features but um we we just launched staking in the US and the adoption has been uh incredibly uh exciting and so I think you know initially we're kind of uh thinking it was like one of these features that you need to have on the platform but not necessarily like a lot of people will engage but actually seeing the amount of customer that were excited to contribute to the security of the network um and also obviously get some of the rewards on their on the AU uh was really exciting and so I I think that's something that we are will continue to work on.

Um you know there's a lot of uh education uh that we need to do. Um you know to your point earlier like some people still don't really understand what staking is and what is even the point or some people still uh don't understand the difference between staking and lending and you know frankly I think the industry is also not helping. uh a lot of time you know people are confusing the two terms to make sure that uh you feel a bit safer because you think staking is is safer than lending so so I think for us it's going to be a lot of our focus like making sure that some of this new feature that we've launched uh can get as much adoption as possible um and so we saw it for for for staking where like people not only uh used it but we're actually uh explaining then to to their friends and uh you know referring people to use staking to contribute to the network. So, I I think it's exciting and when you see like the the current queue on Ethereum, like it's definitely something that we need to think about as an industry as well, like how do we make it even more accessible so you don't have to wait multiple days to get in uh or get out with a validator?

Yeah.

So, anything mass on this side? Anything else? I'll pass it to you. Um yeah so you know I think one of the main reasons why I joined Kouchi is because I think we're in a very unique position to bring crypto to new audiences and also power like uh new product experiences and show um like regular folks the power of crypto and uh I think um yeah that's like the the feature of coming on chain providing value to the crypto community and showing that um we're pushing this space forward is really important to us. May anything you want to add?

Do M.

No, it's fine. You can move on. Next question. Yeah,

I'm switching it up for you.

Yeah. Um, what's different this cycle compared to two years ago? Which regulatory shift in the past two years most unlock your ability to ship? I'm sure there's a lot. So,

actually on shipments, we've been um we've been shipping. Uh, so I I don't know that I think what's accelerated is the genius. um act, but it's accelerated maybe not as much on candidly on shipping, but more on conversations in in the industry. So, I'd say like from shipping, we've

we've been like doubling down and and moving for the past few years, some a little more silently behind the scenes and some more publicly. And so um this year obviously we're super proud of like PYC rewards that I mentioned and that is I would have said one of the most like loved kind of features in um but uh I think the Genius Act really just changed the game from in the US uh for us and it's really about the conversations about the interests about the market being more bullish and across all the segments and and that has really like just been able to open many more doors and And uh I think there's just so much more ahead of us because of that.

Actually unlock a lot for you. Yeah, I mean I totally agree. I think also you know this open really the the door to institution and so when you think about the the ETF that launched um that really helped create kind of a floor for for the volume and the the price of some of the assets. Um it also create new ways of trading so people can uh trade the ETF or trade futures for for Bitcoin and trade the spot and collect premium between the different um asset classes and so I I just think you know it's it's been growing the pie you know with all these institution coming in um with more of these companies uh launching crypto uh you just have like more people coming in and at the end of the day it's it's uh just a beginning still I think um I think I will happy when we stop talking about how does crypto work and that we actually just use products that use crypto in the background. Um we're still a bit far from that but I you know that's really the no stuff was

you want to add anything?

Yeah, two things for us. I think stable coins are also huge for us. Um the genius act and being able to you know accept stable coins deposits collateralization would be huge. Um secondly, I think the collaboration between the SEC and the CFTC and you know historically they've been operating in parallel lanes and now there there seems to be a lot more cross collaboration and um right now like making prediction markets on company earnings and stuff is like not legal right at the moment but hopefully we get to a point um over the next few months or a few years that there's there's like a lot more um sort of uh synergies between um the SEC's and CFTC and commodities and securities.

I think um well just an opinion this cycle differed from previous ones. One the beginnings of regulatory clarity as we discussed. Two the entry of institutional players and institutional capital. Three the rise of stable coins which is going to change the remittance landscape and a lot of DeFi use cases significantly. for better infra and simplified products that the average user can start to understand whether it's multi-chain like bridge all of that just gets simplified for the average person which then paves the way for finally mass adoption and mainstream adoption of crypto across the world.

Y thank you. Um last three minutes any final announcements? Anything else that you want to say to close up this panel? Um no announcement but uh you know really excited to be here. I think when you see uh crowded space like this and conference like this it just

conference 5,000 people.

Exactly. It shows you know that this space is uh is growing and that you know it's a lot of exciting development. So great to be here.

No announcements from Revolute yet but stay tuned. Um yeah, no announcement from our end, but really excited to be here as well.

Yeah, I'll just uh close on that then. Just super excited to be here. Um and uh honestly, it's been an honor here to be on the panel with each of you. It's just really amazing to see how every company is taking Lens, growing the pie, just really driving the ecosystem forward and just helping customers around the world. And and the more we can do that together and better with all these different aspects of safety, of security, of like um ease of use and you know driving access and utility is just really it's just we've been here for so many years.

Each year we've been at you know token and this each year it's like the gravity of the difference this year is really incredible of where we're at.

Yeah. I mean token 2049 keeps getting bigger and bigger. I've been here every single year and just keeps getting bigger. We now we have level one, three, four and five. 25,000 people.

Regulators are saying okay to crypto all over the world. Um

you know fintech's getting to it. Crypto is going mainstream and I think that's what makes everything exciting. So I think that's a good time to wrap up the session. Thank you very much May, John Bas and Johan for this session. Thank you very much.

Thank you very much for listening guys.