The Race to Scale: Who Will Power the Next 100M Users? - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2025

So to kick us off, I kind of want to level set on on the topic that we're discussing today. So we were kind of catching up. Arthur and I had a conversation about this backstage, but the title of this is how we scale to the next 100 million users. And my question for for everybody on this panel is, is that the right benchmark? Is it we want to have as many users on our network as possible or is there a lower amount where maybe there are higher value users that you think are are more important and you know if that's that's what you're thinking like kind of what's the north star for you?

I think we have to be clear as to what the definition of a user is. You know, if you take the NASDAQ for example, who is a user of the NASDAQ, how many users of the NASDAQ have and you know, if you have a brokerage account and you own stocks and a stocks is listed on a NASDAQ, are you a user of the NASDAQ? So, the definition I find useful when looking at a blockchain is I will call a user any party who's responsible for making the decision to spend fees for doing the transaction. So, anyone who makes that decision is a user. If the decision is made by some other party, you're not a user.

Um and ultimately I if you look at blockchain systems uh you know they're very much technical back end they're not the type of systems that end users uh typically interact with that said given the um model around tokens and the economics around it I think having a lot of users is actually quite important. So essentially like the reason that a lot of tokens have any value today is largely based on you know whether you call it like being memes or being a store of value and then the more fundamental approach to this would be what people have called revenue which is like how many people are spending in fees because that actually creates sustainable source of demand for the token. Now for a while there was this idea that blockchains were fundamentally constrained couldn't scale and so if you couldn't scale you would have like this all this demand for transactions and a fee market and you could you could extract high fees but scaling's largely been solved like blockchain can scale there's different ways of doing it and you know monet's doing it certain way and like is doing it certain way this is doing it the best way but like there's different ways of doing it and we can do it and I think we're getting to a world where transactions are abundant whereas a clearing price sorry of a transaction is going to be zero right so you can have billions of people wanting to make transactions or billions of demand for transaction and then you still have the capacity so if the clearing price is zero you have a problem how do you get revenue if you have 100 million users if you have 100 million users making a 100 transactions you can charge them 1 cent per transaction and you know from their perspective paying a like a dollar versus zero it's not a big spending decision. So they might be willing to do this even though you know the clearing price might be 0.001 cents.

You're charging them like way more but it's such a small fraction of the budget that they don't care. If you have on the other hand a 100 users making a 100 million transactions they're going to care a lot about the fee and then you get into a very cutthroat world where the transactions are very small. So like where revenue is going to acrue is anyone who has distribution channels to people who can actually like make the suspending decisions. Anyway, sorry I'm took a long to answer that question but I think it's an important reason that is often not really appreciated in the industry. I

think I might have a shorter answer to the question and going back to it. So the I think the fundamental ask behind it is like is is users really the benchmark for what makes blockchain or what makes crypto successful and is that metric uh 100 million users? um potentially but actually going back to Arthur's point like how do you even define a user especially when things are on chain like is a singular wallet a user but then you know one uh human could have multiple wallets is a bot a user because they also take action on chain um you know is sibling uh or anti-ibling important um so and this is just my perspective I actually think that what is important for blockchain success is more about the utility and usefulness that a specific speific chain or this industry actually provides. So less about the number of users but rather usage. Um if we think about like um I mean let's just think about like trading volumes for example.

Uh I think I looked up this stat not too long ago. So um a daily average trading volume across all of crypto I think is around 20 billion or so. Um, not a shabby number by any means, but if we compare that relative to like 24-hour trading volumes of like FX markets, which is in the trillions, I think that's like where we should be going. If we're if we're thinking about like size of the market relative to where we compare to traditional markets or where we compare to non-crypto, if crypto is the next generation of tech, um there's still a lot more to go and there's different ways of measuring that success outside of just pure uh user numbers.

I'll take a a differentiated approach on this one and it's to me it's less about the infrastructure here and really think about the product. We we work with large companies that have access to hundreds of millions of users actually. They they come to us not with like you know thinking about the fees and this that but they're concerned about the product experience. For example, we work with NBC Universal. They're thinking about how do we kind of create content that can be viewed licensed by others.

Uh and their audience is hundreds of millions. They do care about you know the specific product requirements. You know is can I actually do a significant number of transactions and not have it cost prohibitive to me compared to the cloud? Can I support the kind of scale if I now roll this out to 1% of users and then two and then three and then becomes like a Hulu type situation you know if 100 million plus people are using it you know what's going to happen to that how do I people log in um you know they they have to have a simplified login that's very similar to the internet today so the I think for the 100 million users it's more about you know I think people hit on this point it's about the utility you bring to the product experience and then can you actually generate that utility based on you know 1 10 100 million users but of Of course, Aptas is really meant for like the large large scale. That's kind of our background, Genesis coming from MSK at billions of people.

Um, thinking about the way Libra and DM would serve the kind of world's markets and those are kind of the customers we're best suited to serve.

Yeah, I think that if I uh zoom out on this a little bit, right, I think the stat of 100 million users is kind of just it's it's one that's easily gamable as we've seen from many many networks and their purported wallet counts over time. Uh I think on the other hand what actually becomes very interesting is almost like the the economic value or the GDP of a blockchain right what is their user base producing what are the businesses that are actually being uniquely built on that blockchain and then why should they exist so when I think about the the northstar metric for a chain or or an ecosystem as a whole or blockchain really it's what businesses are being uniquely enabled on chain how sustainable are they are they onboarding useful assets useful user bases uh and what does that actually turn into at the end of the day? So like you know Avery is speaking to problems of of massive scale which I think are champagne problems in many cases and should be should be lauded um simply because in the first place it's like why do you want to come on chain as a company and I think that we're seeing you know the industry evolve to this point where the combination of the crossover between tradi companies and crypto companies is no longer a complete meme. It's no longer just the the institutions are coming, the institutions are coming, trust me, right? Um, and I'm sure you guys have all seen this over the past few years.

It's become that much realer with the Robin Hoods and the Tempo/stripes of the world. Uh, so I think that as we think about this from the bear chain perspective, um, it's really how can we as a chain or as a network or any network really help accelerate the growth of of the businesses that's building on top of it. A lot of that, like Avery said, is a matter of UX because I don't think anyone really wants to use crypto, like actively knowing that they're using crypto. I think people want to know that their transactions are secure. They want to know that they do not have to trust an external counterparty too much.

They want to know that it's safe and can be verified and can be transparent. They want to have easy access to credit, but they don't want to be like, "Oh, yes, I'm using X or Y blockchain because I love this blockchain so much." and they just want a a point andoot experience, right? And I think Poly Market, Courtyard are great examples of things like this where I don't think anyone cares about whether it's on a chain or not. They just care about whatever is getting the job done.

Um, so our whole thesis to to take this full circle at Barchain is that the chain should be that base plate to help apps scale and help good businesses scale. So the block rewards from the network actually end up in the hands of revenue generating businesses on the chain uh as opposed to just securing the validator set. Um and we hope that that will eventually help onboard businesses that are reaching tens, hundreds, you know, thousands of millions of users.

I think I tend to agree that we're really at a point right now where it is about the actual onboarding, the actual experience, the actual product. I think you all have built technical solutions that help with the scalability of the tech and the network itself. But Unice, I want to get back to something you mentioned because I think this is really interesting when we think about where we are in the world today and when we look at the way that people are interacting with businesses. AI and AI agents are really big right now. And I think we're starting to see that come into crypto.

And I think blockchains are actually great solutions for AI agents in a lot of ways, but you know, I think you mentioned bots as like potentially being a user, but when we think about maybe AI agents as users as opposed to actual humans, have you thought about that at all when you've built out your solution and when you think about the tech that you're building to scale? Do humans and and AI agents coexist? Do one of them matter more than the other and how do you serve them? Yeah, that specific question has never been like explicitly top of mind per se. Um, I'd say that Mona blockchain has always been built for performance uh at the the basic foundational level and I think many of us uh on this panel also think similarly.

Um, so that's what that's where the ethos of Mon comes from. Um and so my two other co-founders who are formerly from jump trading high frequency trading uh backgrounds uh really used to low latency systems and taking that experience to actually have rebuilt the Ethereum uh EVM client as well as the uh net new consensus client as well. And so that's what makes Monad extremely unique. Going back to your question about you know bots and um whether uh blockchain is a good space for agentic agents. Yeah, for agents.

Yeah, like whether it's like a good spot for it. Yeah, potentially. But I think it also needs to have like a good balance of like why crypto, why blockchain. Um, you know, what is what does this uh technology fundamentally unlock? If it's literally a uh playground just for AI agents, like to me, that's kind of a form of entertainment or maybe just um I don't know, just like a trading bot competition.

Um, maybe that provides some utility from uh a fun perspective or an entertainment perspective or a um, oh, let's try to juice a couple more like rewards or yields or whatever perspective, but I don't know how much utility that actually truly drives. So going back to the point of like how uh can you know what it is that we're building in this industry move um this space forward from like a user perspective like is this act is blockchain is the monad ecosystem um whatever like is that actually unlocking uh new novel ways of like adding value to the user? Is it solving a problem? Like I think that should be more of the question. Um and maybe the answer is that there is like a good in between of facilitating both a an agentic space as well as those for real human users.

I'll take a very opinionated approach which is for Apttos we kind of feel there are two strong use cases in crypto. One is to trade assets and the other one is to support decentralized cloud infrastructure and we think AI fits into both these cases very nicely. So one on the one hand um AI you know is not great for blockchains because blockchains are very slow compared to traditional systems. They are very expensive for compute and so that's why we have a project called Shelby we launched with hot storage but it's going to eventually take on all the roles of cloud compute um inference on training all that kind of stuff going forward and so blockchains become this core centerpiece of a coordination layer for how you can build out all kinds of uh cloud primitives and really compete with the cloud industry which is huge. It's a $300 billion year industry, 30% year-over-year over growth and I think one that's poised to do very very well for decentralized infrastructure because we can compete on cost.

We can compete on uh user control and we can compete on like many many use cases around data sharing that are very novel in the space. And I think the future is going to be this kind of value creation through cloud infrastructure and then you have um value exchange through basically exchanging assets on chain and AI agents will play a very big role as there as well because you know we had robo portfolios in the past that manage our our funds and our assets. The future is going to be II agents that kind of construct these portfolios on the fly. rebalance your asset construction every minute, every 5 seconds depending how cheap things are, right? And I think that's going to be a very very new world for AI to kind of make its way into crypto and also into our products.

Yeah. I mean, I think that right now like the best parallel for this is just some very aggressively scripted stuff that you'll see on chain, right? Whether it's high frequency trading or marketmaking bots or whatever it is. And I think in most cases, people just think about that in the case of being able to handle that scale, make sure it doesn't clog up your network, make sure you can actually process all the transactions. Um, I think to answer your original question though, Eric, like at the end of the day, I feel like one has to build for for the human client, uh, and then account for AIs that will under, you know, inevitably be operated by human counterparties at the end of the day, right?

Um, and I I think that being able to have that on a blockchain substrate is interesting from a lack of bias, a decentralized training, or even, you know, inference and contribution of data point of view. But I don't think I've ever actually saw about how, you know, one might actually build for a world where AI's come first. Yeah, that that that's actually um something I wanted to ask and and I'll go back to you Smokeoky on this is the tech is part of it and we just talked about you know there's solutions out there and and and that's relatively figured out I think um but there are only so many users human users let's say now in this case human users in the world and you're all obviously competing for those users to come onto your network so when you think about the other side of the tech and you think about the people and the community and you know you mentioned businesses right building businesses on chain um how do you think about growing that community onboarding those users and you know Smokey I'll go back to you because I think you you kind of hit on this in two questions ago like how do you do that how do you actually attract the users

yeah I mean to give you a bit of a of a pyth you kind of have to solve a problem for them right uh and and again sometimes easier said than done but I would argue that some of the biggest wins or some of the use cases that have actually allowed crypto to get in front of lots of users have been things that were quite simple, right? Um before Ankor/ Luna blew up, it was a simple, you know, savings account. People wanted that. And I actually would argue that nowadays with the evolution of stable coins and I'd say how efficient certain onchain yield systems are, that's actually much less of a of a myth, right, of being able to have competitive double-digit yields on your stables. Um I think so at the end of the day you have to figure out what is it that a business is lacking from traditional rails and how can crypto provide a solution.

Um is that an access to credit problem? Is that an access to liquidity problem? Is it a means of actually being able to bootstrap growth capital for some of these let's say private credit type opportunities where you'll have those goldfinch or maple finance in the early days like take money on chain deploy it offchain rinse and repeat. So when we think about that in the bar chain perspective, we think about that a lot in terms of the the CAC to LTV ratio that a company is chasing, right? So how much does it cost them to acquire a customer and then how much is that customer worth to them over the lifetime of their their use of that product?

And what bar chain basically does is it exchanges its block rewards for a company's, you know, auctioned off incentives, if you will. It says that normally people don't pay for their block awards. You know, a validator will stake a bunch of ETH, a bunch of apttose, whatever it might be, and receive more ETH, apttose, etc., etc. Um, in bar chain, the validator set effectively says, "Hey, this application is willing to pay me a dollar for a$110, a$120, whatever it is of my emissions.

Uh, and as a result, that application is able to use that to drive demand for whatever it is within their product. they're really looking to accelerate but they have to be actually solving some problem in the first place and that I don't think it can create PMF but I think it can help accelerate demand and move to towards a critical mass to actually drive PMF. So at the end of the day it's you know to build a business on chain it's why are you on chain and I think that boils down to you know ease of capital formation transparency and verifiability of transactions some degree of easy access to liquidity or credit and access to capital formation as a whole in many cases.

Arthur I'm curious to hear from you because you have a very mature network. you're the one that mentioned, you know, 100 million users is more valuable than than 10 users or something like that. So, how do you think about growing that user base for TASUS?

Yeah. Um, I think a lot of people don't really use blockchains, they use wallets. Again, the wallet is a distribution point. And for a while, people thought of wallets as, you know, this kind of like, oh, this is not a good business. It's not going to make money.

And then you saw the switch. And I think people started realizing that's when I would say Metamas started you know like making money hands over fists by integrating swaps. The people using wallets essentially they are going to pay a fraction of a cent on the blockchain that's going to actually like trade for them. They're going to pay maybe 10 business point, five basis points to the whatever decks it is that it's going to be routed to. and they're going to pay 75 business points to MetaMask because they're lazy.

Um, it's incredible how much more revenue you can extract by being closer to the users. So, how do you inboard people? Well, again, people use their wallet. That's that's really what that demonstrates. There's so much using the wallet that they're willing to pay orders of magnitude more money to their wallet than to the base blockchain they're using.

Um, one of the thing in the to ecosystem that uh we we did very early on, I think as early as 2021 was onboarding a lot of people in wallets using social media handles so that they wouldn't have to deal with uh pass phrases. Uh, and I I think that remains one of the largest hurdle for onboarding people to uh uh to crypto. It's like setting up a wallet and then making the first purchase. It's terrible. You want to pay your transaction fees.

You want to do anything. It's like great, you've done this. Now you're going to have to like jump through even if you want to use a credit card, you're going to just have to jump through a bunch of KYC hoops in order to do this. This remains the highest friction point in bringing people. The second thing of course is like you know these people need something to do.

Um and we have a lot of great use cases in uh in Tzos like in many other ecosystems and not necessarily use cases for 100 million people, right? So we have a absolutely thriving um visual art uh community which is fantastic. Does it scale to 100 million people? Not necessarily. Um so the use cases I think that to have the potential of scaling to a very large number of uh of people are probably around payments um around culture entertainment but uh a lot of people have been chasing those uh those use cases and I think they're a little tough to crack.

One of the thing we uh uh we tried for example was uh fandom around uh sports. Many people have tried that very very low conversion rate like it's you know it was one approach as a shot to try to get a 100 million users like if you want to take a big swing it is an interesting way to take a big swing but very very still like at this stage low product market fit for this type of uh for this type of activity. Maybe in the future, but I don't think it's uh it's there yet. Financial use cases seem to be the one that have the most impendent match with the technology because you know if people are going to be making money, they're generally willing to jump through more hoops. They're willing to tolerate more uh UX pains and you know this is reflected in what you see in the uh in the market.

Unice. I'm curious for you because you're kind of the opposite end of the spectrum where you're building a community now for your mainet that's going to go live. So how have you been approaching that and thinking about just building that user base early on?

Yeah. Well, for a blockchain, uh it's really an ecosystem. So it's more than just like users that you're you're looking to bring on board. There's also the element of the applications and what makes the ecosystem actually alive. Uh so maybe I can also touch upon that side like what does uh you know user acquisition from developer funnel as well as like enduser uh look like.

So when it comes down to it though, I think the common points are accessibility as well as enablement. Um, one of the core tenants of blockchain obviously is this element of decentralization and trustlessness and security. Um, now not all blockchains are created equal. Some are far more centralized than others. And um, maybe nowadays it might not be seen as important, but you know when decentralization is clear that it's important, it's going to be clear to all.

So, Monet is designed with decentralization in mind without actually sacrificing any performance. Um, again, this is also in part because the underlying tech stack has been recreated from the ground up. Anyway, going back to the main point. So from an enablement perspective and um a uh accessibility perspective, uh one of the core differences of like building an app that's on um that's just on like a a mobile traditional mobile platform versus one that's for blockchain is like not having to be gatekept by the uh app store per se. not having to go through uh specific hurdles that like some centralized like tech company deems to be appropriate or not.

Um like it you can deploy anything on chain the same way that on a user side you can access anything on chain. Um I think the question also is less about like how do you acquire a 100 million users and more about like why should a 100 million users actually want to be on chain using your network. So there that also comes down to the uh use case aspect of like why is it compelling to be on chain uh what application use cases are uh fundamentally better and whether it's from like uh cost of uh cost of capital cost of user acquisition or um crossborder payments and remittances just like accessibility again I think is the key word here um that's uh that that I think is fundamentally important. I kind of think we're we're saying the same thing or a couple people have mentioned this where we're moving into a world where users won't necessarily know they're on chain or they're not using you because they just love monad or they you know love bar chain or something like that but it is the actual applications that are being built and the things that people are using that are consumerf facing. So Avery, I'm curious from your perspective how you think about incentivizing and bringing people, you know, onto your network and and have them actually build really interesting things for users.

I think you you said it's all about the products. That's like bottom line. I think nobody uses Facebook because it has a MySQL database underneath it, right? Like that makes no sense at all. Um, and that's I think that the the big difference for us has been focusing on the product cases use cases that we're very excited about and we think that are the most important for crypto.

So instead of being a general purpose L1, we're saying look, trading is extremely important. We're going to make sure that the stack is optimized uh for your trading experience. We're going to have things like preventing me uh and sandwich attacks by having hidden transactions until they're kind of deep into the um the ordering phase that aren't possible in their network. So, we're going to have the support um for kind of um giving makers in last look at transactions just before they're kind of completed to make sure that the spreads can be extremely tight in your order flow. Um or when it comes to cloud infrastructure, we're going to make sure that coordination layer is extremely well built to support cloud infrastructure that is going to be uh rivaling what AWS uh GCP and Azure can do in that space.

and that verticalization of the stack to support these net new kind of ideas and applications um that we think are going to draw in customers. It's less about the incentives. It's more about what you can enable from a new user experience. It just wasn't possible in the past. So I can get better fees.

I can actually use cloud infrastructure for enterprise use cases like the NASDAQ and others that weren't possible in the past and now supports um you know uh new utility for these customers going forward. And so the more we can do that, that's like the real incentive that you couldn't do something in the past that is really serving a need in the market. And I think it requires the entire stack to be redesigned and rebuilt for these use cases as opposed to the previous use cases where people kind of built general purpose infrastructure and said I hope someone will build something really cool on this infrastructure. Um I think those days are are behind us now.

Can I add something really quick? I I feel like what at some point technology I think is just going to be commoditized like things will be sufficiently cheap, fast, scalable enough. So there has to be other differentiations as well for again like why why blockchain or why a given ecosystem. Um so going back to the point that you mentioned about like you know Monet has actually a strong community that has already been formed now. There's an element of distribution that's also extremely important to app teams as well in being able to uh find users and also uh confirm product market fit.

You can't confirm product market fit without traction, without usage. Um, one thing that I think is actually pretty cool is amongst the applications that have been deployed on the Monet test net, they've been getting a ton of direct user feedback from the community themselves that have been using uh applications on chain. Um, a cool statistic is that about a month into uh testn net uh we literally sent out a Google doc to um the community discord and was like hey please just send in a quick oneliner of like feedback that you have for uh the apps that are deployed and that you're trying. Within a twoe period we had over 30,000 submissions. So those were obviously filtered and then shared to set application teams uh and you know project teams so that they could then uh make improvements to apps before mainet but like that's just another piece of the puzzle for like you know why both um builders and users and melding them under in and within one ecosystem is important.

I'll say a few things which are bearish in general for the for the space. And so the deal I want to make with the audience is like even though I'm going to say something that's bearish, if it makes sense to you, I want you to say this guy makes sense, I'm going to check out Tzos. It's less effective than just being like, yeah, but uh I believe so. I agree that commodification is going to be a thing. Um especially since the like the cost of software engineering is falling.

um the um AI models for coding are getting better and better and whilst they certainly cannot code a system like a blockchain today um in a couple years um they're going to get there. So the technology itself is going to become commodity. Um it it is to a certain extent already uh but it's going to be even more so. You were talking about agents. agents are also going to commodify a lot of things like right now a lot of value in the world is locked into people's laziness you know why is it that you know um open AI has evaluation it has yeah it has like maybe sometimes better models great researchers but also it has insane distribution with chatbt because in people's mind AI is chat GPT and that's what they think and they don't really want to think longer than that if you use an agent your agent is not going to say like, oh, I'm going to go on that blockchain, that's the one I heard about.

No, it's going to look everywhere. So, everything is getting commoditized. Prices are going to be driven to zero. Um, this is not a great state of affair for uh uh for things. And you know, in a way, the world in which you're saying like, oh, the user doesn't even know what blockchain they're using.

That is not a happy world for L1's. So, what is to be done? Well, I I do think that uh blockchains have to be consumer brand to some extent. It's they and it's tough. It's there's a tension because on the one hand they are you know very they basically do like back office clearing stuff which is like not something you'd expect a consumer brand to do but to leave they have to be online communities and they have to be consumer brand.

So there's a tension here that needs to be resolved. The second thing that can be done and this was one of the impetus for having governance on u on Tzos. If you look at the early writing on on on Tzos and on tokens, one of the thesis was um most applications don't really need to have a token. You know, your application in general is going to be an open source application. It runs on a blockchain.

It can be copied. The token is like having a uh you know like a toll in the middle of an open field. You can just go around it. And part of um the idea of tzos is to basically bring back into the protocol directly those applications. So this is also like from a time where people were talking about the fat protocol teases and the idea was you know all of the value of the applications are going to acrue to the base token and my thinking at the time and I still I think it has held up is like that by default that does not necessarily happen.

It happens because it builds hype it builds attention but not mechanic But not like from a economics perspective and if you really want it to happen from an economics perspective essentially you have to kind of nationalize the applications at some point you know you want to have all this experimentation but at some point you want to have as a base utility in your blockchains things like borrowing and lending things like trading which are like which generate a lot more revenue than you can extract as a base chain. You need to aggregate. You need to be a maximalist in terms of like what your protocol does if you want the economics to work out.

I really like the part that where Arthur pitched a bunch of bar chain for me. The part that's actually more interesting in my opinion is the ability to form a bit of a symbiotic relationship between the chain and its apps because it's it's exactly what you said. The fat protocol thesis is a little bit of a meme, right? And nowadays everyone's getting more obsessed with app chains. you say hyperl liquid three times and the crowd goes wild, right?

And uh you have to think about how a chain and an app are actually aligned, right? So the the whole shtick that I've been saying with bar chain is that as those apps succeed, a portion of their revenues are actually going back to stakers or holders of the bar token itself. So its source of value isn't just saying, "Hey, we're going to print bar token because there's more beer token to be printed." It's actually saying, hey, these applications revenues or governance tokens are going back to driving value here. But to zoom out for a second, I think more importantly, the part that hasn't quite been touched upon in this equation is is that of human capital.

Uh, and I think that's perhaps one of the resources that is lacking the most in the space as a whole, right? And and part of that is a function of the, you know, weird regulatory climate that we had for so long where working in blockchain was was sketchy in itself. uh working in blockchain was something that made you a pariah or you know under regulatory uh I'd say supervision in the US. Um but the bar is is objectively low and I don't mean that in a in a cocky sense in any way. I just mean that in that the best and brightest are not building on chain as of yet.

You know there some of them are taking that leap. Some of them are getting more comfortable with the concept of you know blockchain not being a scam. But in order for I think a network or a set of networks to succeed and grow whether that is your social networks like Facebook, your monetary networks like PayPal, whatever you know your Teslas of the world, I think you need a bunch of very solid network effects to take root, right? You need excellent people and excellent projects attracting more of the same. And I think that we're just sort of starting to get to that phase in crypto as a whole where you can look at five or 10 different groups and say, "Wow, like that's a bunch of killers."

Uh and I think that you know part of the roles of of everyone on this panel in the crowd whatever it might be is to actually find a way to make people uh believe that there is something interesting to be gained from building on on crypto rails as a whole because I think if the bar for talent in the space stays where it is right now I don't think it'll progress very effectively at all. So we have about a minute and a half left. I want to put everyone on the spot cuz again you're all you're all competing for these users. So I'm going to go Arthur with you first. tell the audience quickly why Tasus is going to win.

Um, well, I think it's a focus we've had for a long time. Um, and we have taken big swings and, you know, big swings have very high payoff when they work out. Uh, but most of the time they don't work out. But we keep trying to do big swings because I think that's, you know, where it's at. uh trying to compete for the same 10,000 uh DeFi users by just like throwing a ton of money or a ton of inflation as them is not something that's sustainable and gets you anywhere.

So for us um the markets that where we see a potential for 100 million users are gaming and there's a huge focus on gaming. There's uh Reaper actual launching on uh the Ethalink in uh in a couple days. um arts and culture. I think that also has a potential uh there's a product market fit here and it has a potential of reaching millions of users um and finance not just decentralized finance but actual finance.

Monet is building for the future and we will continue to build in the future as well. The starting point for manad day one it is just strictly a vzero. There's going to be more iterations, more improvements. Beyond that, we also uh have programs that are designed to be supportive of applications on chain. Um for example, Monad Momentum is an incentives matching program that's specifically designed to work with apps in finding the correct actions of incentivization and conversion of users.

I think less of us actually competing for users to be honest. These are different use cases. I think there's a way where everyone can win. Um but for Aptas like the the vision we really want to see is when you have all your finances happening on chain where there's going to be banking, lending, uh investing as well as transacting and volume happening in the global trading engine. That's a world we really want to live in.

We think it's a a huge improvement upgrade over today's existing infrastructure. I think that at barachchain we have a fundamental belief that applications are what define their chains and I do not believe that there are any other blockchains in existence which are built to support applications from a mechanistic and financial point of view at the base layer in the same way that barchin is while making sure that the apps and the chain themselves are aligned over a long-term time frame and uh we got some time to prove it out.

All right. Well, I'm I'm feeling very bullish after this. I feel like not only are we going to onboard users, but we're actually going to have applications they find useful. So, thank you very much to the panelists. Thank you very much to the audience.

And uh yeah, I hope everyone enjoys the rest of the day of day two.