Bull Market Mania and Memecoin Frenzy - TOKEN2049 Dubai 2024

all right everybody I hope you are as excited as I am I have literally been brought in last minute but when I saw this panel I mean this is the this is the All-Star game right now going on um so I think we're going to have a very fun chat and we were just talking backstage I mean ultimately memecoins are they're the high energy thing in crypto you know you have a lot of panels about technology um you know scaling and they those things are very important they come into play but you know the the fun part that really drives the energy the capital the momentum um this cycle seems to be meme coins I mean last cycle maybe was nfts so maybe let's kind of look at you know how it's different this time around I know Kobe was saying that nft these are like [ __ ] coins with pictures um now we're kind of still have the picture there's one picture um yeah see start with you being being the the serious person on stage yeah um look I'm kind of the Boomer on the panel so I'm I'm going to give uh in a way a little bit more of an outsider perspective so as a VC you know when when when I saw nfts start to really take off in 2021 um you know it seemed obviously kind of speculative and kind of crazy um uh but when I saw the rise of mem coins obviously mcoins they really predate what happened in the last couple years mcoins started with Dogecoin and you know all this stuff it really it's like a couple Cycles ago but the ease of creating meme coins and marketing meme coins and the velocity with which they've taken over uh crypto trading that is a really new phenomenon and every cycle there's some retail driven kind of manic energetic thing that's happening and this cycle it has been meme coins it does feel to me like meme coins they are in some way better for the ecosystem nfts were to the extent that nfts were purely speculative there were some nfts that obviously were about art and about um you know you know collecting something that had real world value uh but a lot of it was just pure speculation and memec coins in that sense are more efficient because you know there's there's lower uh cost to trading mcoins and trading nfts you know openc was taking two and a half% on every single trade everyone made in the nft boom right and in the mecoin world well you just pay much lower fees when it's a token it's much more efficient anybody can make one you don't have to go hire some you know uh random people overseas to like make 10,000 pfps for you you can just come up with a picture an idea launch it and boom the mcoin can start trading so in that sense the activation energy to create a new meme coin and get it going to let the game be played is lower and that does feel like it there's less free energy escaping the system to middlemen and people who are getting paid to do this kind of stuff so that feels to me n good and different from the nft era yeah how about you anom like do you feel like the nft season we had in 2021 obviously you know I had friends that were just waking up middle of the night paying thousand gas fees like that that was like another very high energy uh period how do you see it now and and which one do you prefer I guess um yeah I'm terrible at trading nfts so I definitely prefer meme coins but I think historically memecoins and crypto are representative of Internet culture and a lot of the early Bitcoin ethereum guys are directly representative of that I think if you look at all the bull cycles that we've had in crypto most of them retail picks on Doge first before art art altcoins start running really hard doge is the one leading almost every time and it's been around since like 2012 if you look at the top 50 coins in crypto in the past decade nearly 95% of them have changed but those is always there I think that's representative of just how crypto values internet culture and then you had last cycle with nfts really these communities forming around people launching these projects um it was a lot more orchestrated but I think with meme coins it's even easier to do that so it's like with nfts you only have 10,000 holders with mean coins you can have literally millions um and I think it's just really easy for retail to tap into that whereas you don't need to understand what a L1 versus L2 versus L3 is like what a blockchain is if you just like a picture of a dog with a hat or Pepe um or like whatever presidential candidate um you're attached to it's like it's really easy for retail to get into crypto and it's like once they have these coins in their wallet then they start doing research and other things I think it's really like a it's almost like a trojan horse for onboarding retail in crypto absolutely um Alex I mean you've been go ahead yeah I think people um I think nfts and and mem coins they target very different audiences audiences it's not it's not that mcon are replacing nfts from the power cycle it's an entirely different thing it's a different game and it's a different audience and uh and another thing on mein that I think is very important is the the the people usually the the audience or or many Traders underestimate how difficult it is to to create a mcoin if you look at the uh at the largest ones uh with I don't know the the with guys but the other ones Pepe and flocky which are the uh three of the uh top six performers of this year actually across all crypto assets they are run by very very professional teens so in general when you see a a a a crypto a mcoin doing extremely well there's a lot of work happening behind the scenes to make that happen how about something that's the opposite like you know maybe the team behind slurf is kind of uh making making an making a I don't know if you guys know exactly what's going on maybe it's an act but it doesn't seem to be like a very professional run organization right um unless it was all the big ruse I it say slur is a it's a an odity it's an odity yeah it's something it's somebody made a mistake and it just happened I mean let's get to a very cool and like uh interesting question maybe answer you can kick off of like what makes this Oddities happen what makes I mean you seem to have a an amazing eye for what might do well what might be a killer meem coin versus someone that's going to fall flat what what is that secret ingredient um yeah I mean I think I'm I'm good at picking meem coin cuz I've been on the internet forever like Tumblr Twitter before I was even on crypto Twitter I was online like 12 hours plus like all the time um but I say it's like three main things for me that determine how well a meme ping is going to do I'll say the first one is like how relatable it is to people so like the relatability aspect if nobody like if somebody who had no idea what crypto is no idea what what any technology is behind the scenes can understand the meme like in an instant that's one sign that like you think that could that could do well um then I think the virality aspect of it is it's like with all these meme coins you need either a group of people pushing it or like some people with a lot of distribution pushing it so that a lot of eyes are going to get on it in some way whereas like with something like ven it's like that's attached to a presidential election which is going to get a lot of air time this year so it's like that has a really easy way to go viral because everybody's going to attach that to the election whereas with like last cycle you had Elon Musk who's like the richest dude on the planet talking about Doge every week every week every week so it's at the Forefront of everybody's Minds um and I'd say like the third piece is probably distribution so a lot of memes that do really well have extremely good distribution where it's like the supply of the coin is not concentrated in a few people because when that happens it's like you're kind of capped on cealing how high it can go cuz people are just going to have outsized um profits compared to everybody else but if you have like a a lot of holders who have small size um in positions then it's typically um better for like long term yeah um maybe Alex let's go this way so something like a coin that has you know good virality there's a lot of talk about left curve mid curve right curve right and uh sometimes with meme coins it seems that to know which one's going to do well you want to show it like you know your girlfriend or somebody who's not in crypto and if they're like oh [ __ ] that's a really cute dog with a hat that seem seems to be like a warning sign do you do you think going for for that type of virality makes sense or um yeah what do you think works um I I think it makes sense yeah uh but going back to what you were saying the the what anim was saying before is I think the uh the the single most important thing is is actually two is uh dist sorry to go back but it's a distribution extremely wide distribution and if you think about it that's how Bitcoin became Bitcoin coin extremely good distribution a coin concentrated in a few hands is going to fail and uh the second one is strong hands so if if the early adopters and or the team hold you have a chance without that you forget about it it's not going to happen H hasib I don't know if you have opinions about this or um no what you know what's interesting is that uh as an investor so you know I don't invest into mam coins we invest into like boring you know layer ones and layer twos and other [ __ ] that you know is more technology focused and the interesting thing is you know what what both these guys describe mechanically that uh makes for a good team or makes for a strong token or strong holder base the same thing is true in any other category right you want a strong team you want good distribution you want some unique angle or idea that's going to resonate with people um so all these things are true in the same way and so almost um if you think about it like if you strip away all the technology you strip away you know the the other externalities and the offices and the other [ __ ] that all the other crypto projects that are trying to build technology are paying for um but you keep all the economic mechanics what you have left is a mcoin and so in some sense like before a a team really ships cortech before they really have true product Market fit and most things in crypto don't have product Market fit on some level you know most things are meme coins until they become something with stronger fundamentals right um and so it's really more of a Continuum in my mind than a well these are the mean coins and these are like the real Tech coins um everything goes through that process in the early stages of mostly being around ideas and consensus building uh and around constructing the right kind of financial Foundation uh rather than you know we start with the technology and we end with the technology I mean even TimeWise you know attention is such a scarcity in crypto and in the world in general right now not everybody has time to read you know pages and pages of a white paper everybody has time to see like an image or you know like a a cute meme quick how many of you guys in the audience have like read a white paper in the last year I'm just curious like have there been a lot of white paper readers okay it's not too bad you know let let's say that this is like 10% of uh of the population the teams that you talk about the layer ones layer twos they're working on all this incredible Tech at the end of the day maybe uh they realize that to get to the other 90% that's not going to read the white paper they need to distill the message into something very um culturally engaging it's exactly right a lot of technologist resist that idea it feels gross to them it feels like oh well that's not what I got in the game for I came in here to like write my beautiful dissertation and design my magnum opus blockchain and the reality is that you know they can actually learn a lot from the mcoin entrepreneurs and innovators is that you know memec coin effectively is a distillation of the pure go to market distribution narrative building part of what goes into creating a successful crypto project um and it's sort of like if you if you took an L1 but you took like the the the just almost like economic and mimetic fitness of a strong mem coin that's how you get an explosive project and sometimes I mean I guess uh the one that I've seen you talk about is near and I remember on your podcast you were saying that you know Ilia was just talking about Ai and suddenly like you know the price goes up it seems that even the meme of without the coin part just AI you know as as a as a narrative seems so powerful that the the founders the strong Founders the good ones are starting to embrace it and they're like if the market wants AI you know let's talk about Ai and maybe they'll realize that there's all this good stuff underneath that's right I mean it's also true in normal financial markets it's not unique to crypto right like when when blockchain was very hot in 2017 all these companies started talking about how they were using blockchain and their stock went up right so like this idea that oh narratives and memes it's kind of like this it's this weird thing that happens in crypto it's Financial nihilism but in the real stock market it doesn't happen that's just not true it happens everywhere and you you know good um good Business Leaders or you know crypto Founders or whatever they realize what the market wants from them and what it's trying to pull out of them right so Ilia realized the market was trying to turn near into a meme coin like an AI meme coin effectively and he's like all right [ __ ] it yeah sure well you know you'll post the thing of Jensen hang touching my shoulder and great we'll embrace it absolutely uh welcome M good to have you on the panel as well let's let's bring you in I mean like one of the key questions we were talking about me coins is is yeah you know where uh where it operates you know is it on a dead chain is it like on a very active chain maybe salana has been the poster child of this entire season let's say this entire bu Bull Run um how much of it do you think was led by meme coins and how much you think is the opposite where you know because it was doing really well the meme coins naturally came out yeah that's a good question um I think probably the I mean there's a lot of chains you could have launched me points in this past cycle I think most of them work relatively well at least at normal loads um I think salana just made it super easy to Just Launch anything very simply and there was already a lot of uh infrastructure um set in place for this so for example people remember probably in like late 2021 The Craze was nfts and minting nfts and you know spamming to get something through and after ethereum salana was among the top two three chains in that and I think a lot of it actually has to do with like the ecosystem teams like Phantom really good experience right like Magik and tensor Etc uh so the quality of the startups there um and then so I think the same thing just happened again this time uh but now I actually kind of see it happening the opposite way like it started on salana but now it's actually maybe going over to base and some other change is propagating as well um obviously due to some congestion issues recently um but you know I think um re really it it you need to First have the infrastructure in place obviously to support these use cases to begin with um and then you know it did help that we had a lot of ecosystem uh support uh obviously anom was a big fan of salana the whole time so um yeah I think really I don't think there's like a science to it it kind of just it was just momentum and then we just kept momentum going and then the panel is called about you know bull market Mania mecoin frenzy even though you know maybe this week hasn't been as much of Mania on on the bull market side but in terms of when it does happen we get these waves um a lot of it does seem to be driven about you know people want to get rich quickly they don't want to wait three four years even though they realize that a good investment will play out over that time Horizon they're seeing you know people minting uh Ferraris just just off the cuff how how do you see it anim and like do you do you think that um it's really important to you know avoid coins that are being let's say industrially boted like sniped or kind of you know very uh or how does meev play into into this yeah um I would definitely say I think the how much mcoin activity there is across every single every single chain it's kind of like a call option on the degeneracy of retail in markets so it's like there's a lot of people who have realized that like whatever N9 to-5 they're working they're not going to save enough just by doing that to like retire or whatever at their certain age or like that they want so crypto is like I know I can possibly 100x THX um in a short amount of time which is not like representative all of crypto but it's one piece of it like that aspect that you can make money um on the same returns that VCS typically do in traditional markets is appealing to retail um I think on the other side of it what you said like the the coins that are boted early and like do 500 million volume in like the first couple days so what's happening now is typically the mem coin devs just like don't have a ton of money launch a coin might have a good idea it'll sit like in the 100K to 1 mil range and then the ones that pick up attention from people will end up doing well but what's happening now is like there are teams that have realized they can launch meme coins and they're like teams with a lot of money and they're just like well if we can launch this from zero and take it to billions while we do that instead of trying to fund a project fund a Dev team whatever if we can come with a good idea good marketing and just launch it there's a lot of teams doing that now so that's why you'll see some meme coins come out of nowhere and it's already like how is this a 200 million market cap in a day that's why that's happening it's because there's teams like that are doing that uh Alex do you think these kind of new tools we're seeing pump. fun these these uh abilities to just let anybody launch mem coins and see if they do well do you think this is going to be um you know a short-term lived hype or is this maybe going to be the future where people just automatically want the tools to launch these things and and that'll be how things go it's really easy to launch a mcoin and and uh and that's that's the way it should be yeah I think it's a trend it's just going to get easier and easier and easier we started with Solana now Bas uh eventually the way I see it is every single chain is going to have their own mcoins there's actually quite a few chains missing mcoins right now and uh it's uh it's going to happen at the same time something else is most mem coins launch and they round trip and uh basically uh within hours or days you are if you get in a few hours late you're down 99% well so I'm I'm curious to get your guys' perspective on this because like the last cycle it was nfts nfts were like the crazy speculative thing and it probably end to end about two years the full nft kind of retail frenzy do you think that Meme coins are like the last and final form they're going to stick around forever or is this like okay we've got we've got two years of this meta and then it moves on to like whatever the next thing is going to be I think it's not going to change you think it's not going to change it's not going to yeah it's it's Dodge it's been around forever and and she has been around since uh uh summer 2020 uh you know February 21 and it's still there and it's huge right it's yeah yeah yeah I mean uh I I agree that like it will always be around because it has been around for a while like Doge uh she these are essentially mean points like obviously the attention around them might shift up and down uh but like to the earlier point about the technology like should they be this easy to launch it's like absolutely like the tech should be as uh frictionless as possible and then the markets can do their things um you know I don't think it can obviously go up forever or you know there's always going to be high volatility there but like it I think actually anom said this on on on one of my podcast episodes it's basically like just a way of speculating on like like like um like before you would do like these weird meme things like the Harlem Shake and in like social capital and then now you can actually literally financialized that and predict like what the big next memes are going to be Etc so uh I don't think that ever goes away um although the volatility will obviously be really interesting to watch yeah I definitely agree I mean if you just look at the internet would do you ever expect memes on the internet to go away the answer is obviously no so I think just the trend is that we're financializing that with crypto it just makes it easy to turn whatever meme that's existed cuz could be 3 years old could be 10 years old whatever turn it into a coin um I think that's going to continue to happen because people more and more people are going to be on social media um as mer says all these trends that continue to happen like stuff goes viral like that I think a lot when that happens you're going to have coins attached all these viral Trends across different social medias and the people that are going to be betting on that is that gen Z group that young group Who's online all the time and it's going to be easy for them in their head to be like oh I think that's going to go viral I can make money on that okay I'm going to buy this coin I think a lot of kids are going to be doing that um for sure and then the combination of like nfts I think nfts and meme coins are actually going to be closer or more closely linked than they are now like in the future um we've kind of saw a little bit of it with the the ERC I think it's 404s um essentially where you have nfts but they can be fractionalized into coins so you can either hold one entire nft or you can hold some coins which make up the nft I think it's going to be a more um like a trans that that keeps keeps happening for sure yeah the 404s was it looked like a really good Contraption there it was sort of like a slot machine you can you can kind of like refresh your coin until you get a good one um I mean there's a few categories of mean coins you know something that I've I've dug into and it's quite interesting you have something like whiff which is let's call it a pure meme coin yeah and then you have a category like Bonk which is you know it's really a community building tool where the distribution was very carefully done um there's nothing to snipe because it was sort of air dropped carefully to developers and the salon ecosystem um it does seem like the ceiling is maybe higher for the first one but the floor is higher for the second one or how maybe uh the thing about the thing about Bonk is that it's making uh they have the Bonk bot and the Bonk bot basically generates half a million dollars in Revenue every day it gets used to to buy Bonk so if you think about it is not really a uh a proper mcoin is it's a defi product packaged in a cute dog that Bonks you you know it's getting very political here so Bonk is not a meme coin everybody it doesn't qualify there's too much fundamental Revenue going on yeah um I think I think we use the term like culture coin once and got troll for it but um like like bong story is pretty crazy like people don't know basically during the like FTX collapse in like 2022 December basically a bunch of people from salana were like okay like we can't let the ecosystem die let's just pull some money together and distribute it to all these different communities a lot of developers actually as well uh and like the developers actually use this for like hackathons and building new projects so like it was actually used for uh productive activities and obviously uh then people started speculating and then uh actually my co-founder for example the air drop was like $800 and he sold it like a thousand and then now was like I know like 200,000 or something um but but so it's not like Bon is kind of different than that that it's just you know as Alex said there are actual it's like a self startup in a sense where the coin is what they use to fund themselves um but there's obviously different types of mem points like the the way I like thinking about it is um like Tushar from multi Point said maybe this is like more akin to like crypto gaming than what we were expecting like maybe it's not skew morphic such that it's you know you just play like I don't know Legend of Zelda and then you add crypto to it but maybe this is actually like crypto native gaming because people are just having fun ultimately as long as you're wear the risks of course um but yeah how about you anom I mean whiff is probably like the one that's more you know for the people um they didn't have to get air dropped at the beginning is that something that you think just has a much higher ceiling yeah I mean I think whiff has done really well because a lot of the early holders literally bought it at like 100k like under 100K 150k market cap and it was just trading there for like a few weeks but since so many holders were generated in that amount of time it's like there's a ton of people who are up over 100x THX and they're like that's whiff is their like their coin now so like the same in the same way that you have the really strong eum Community cuz they did the Ico or bought it like at $10 those people are dieh hard ethereum fans basically forever it's the same way with with and those coins um and you don't really have a team that can mess anything up so it's like with Whi specifically the Deb actually sold all of his coins like really really early um so Deb didn't have any coins it was basically all to the community and there's nothing really there's no fundamentals attached to whip the only thing that makes whip go up or go down is like how much attention it's getting and how many new holders it's getting versus how many people are cashing out their their early profit so it's like if you can spread with from 50,000 holders to 500,000 holders it's like that's the only real metric for how high it's going to go um whereas stuff like Bonk and other coins that have real revenues attached to them you're always going to have people being like Oh the p& of this is this and they're making this much and now they're not making this much because trading activity is down um and you have a team that's getting paid out also so it's like there's different factors where with whip it's literally just like how viral is the me going to go yeah I mean conversely like you're managing you know external funds you probably don't want to go to your LPS and say that you have a a pure meme coin but what would it take for you to include in your portfolio you know something like Bon or something that has real uh fundamental side yeah I mean fundamentals is uh a spectrum I guess uh so it's funny I I I tweeted a while back um asking people like other VCS if they invest in meme coins so you know we have U you know our last fund was like $600 million right so we have a lot of institutional LPs they read our newsletters they read what we buy and if we buy some mem coins I'm going to get a lot of phone calls of like what the [ __ ] are you doing with my money um there are a few Venture investors who I know who did actually invest into mcoin so uh most notably one confirmation invested into dgen which is the it's I guess it's more akin to uh to Bonk uh but for the farter universe and apparently they're you know they're up like 100x or something on that investment uh which is a pretty fantastic denture like return of course you know there's no liquidity they haven't invested so you know whatever all it with a grain of salt um I guess you know honestly I don't think I have a good answer yet because I don't know what I would need to see I would probably need to see that my LPS would not immediately kill me um that's number one I don't know how I would be confident in that um but two I think I would need to have uh you know something a little bit more coherent that would make me really confident so you know I asked this question of do we think that mcoins are the last and final form I don't know that I actually have lower confidence in that um it feels to me like people play the memec coin game because it's fun because numbers are going up and everyone feels like they're making money and when you know nfts also felt the same way numbers are going up people were having fun they felt like they were all making money um I a lot of my friends lost a lot of money in nfts when things stopped going up and uh it's not feeling so fun and the game kind of collapsed pretty quickly uh and I think crypto has this way of um the game keeps migrating it can never quite stay the same because if it does it sort of gets over harvested yeah right like there there kind of too many people launching these like [ __ ] meme coins and you know kind of fleecing retail there are too many Bots there are too many like middlemen who are going in as these like memec coin marketing agencies and pretty soon there's just too many places where people are clipping little pieces on the side and the game uh is sort of being you know there's too much profit being taken at the casino I mean let's talk about that that answer man I saw you nodding a little bit so this is a maybe a taboo question but uh on the concept of taking profit you mentioned you know things are up 10x 100x something like Bowden you know there's an election and then maybe there's less attention on on the Bowden coin how do you think about taking profit when things have gone well in in in this Mania yeah so I I kind of have a general I guess outline for how how I do it most of my portfolio is in regular stuff like spot stuff so 70% I would say is like whatever salana coinbase stock Bitcoin stuff like that um and then like 30% of it is that's when I'm doing all the Deen like trying to catch heav rotation with each new narrative like the per stuff like all that and like onchain like mem coins all that so if you have a meme coin say you put like 1% or less than 1% of your portfolio goes up 100x your portfolio is doubled now so that's just off one one play what you typically should be doing throughout bull cycles is rebalancing that into your safer place days as the cycle goes on um but it's really really hard with meme coins to play them optim optimally because if you hit one of the ones that's like the leader for the cycle if you take profit at like 10x and you take profit a lot you're going to think like wow if I would have held all of that I could be up THX plus um so it's really just a way it's honestly the the hardest part about trading mem coins when they do really well is the mental part of it so it's like you know you need to be taking profit on the way up but you got to just think that that's really the only scenario for you because if you think like oh I could have done this I could have done this could have done this you're going to end up round tripping things all the time people people know your addresses right so they can see what you're holding and when you're holding them right so like like I mean as a VC people know they see our addresses on chain so when we sell it's like a market event that must also be true for you well they don't have all my addresses they have some of them I give them some of them but but yeah it is for sure like oh Z sold this this I've got to sell now so yeah for sure and Alex how do you how do you think about this and side question you know when things are down a lot right like you have uh periods where things flash crash when there's no fundamentals is it still the same thing where you can buy the dip and you know buy the blood in the streets or does it mean that that Meme coin is probably dead and you know you're looking for a new one uh depends but on profit taking the issue with profit taking is that if you have a very large position you can't take profit because you kill the project that's that's that's something is very important in MIM coins uh the the other one is on on buying the dip is uh depends on how big it is if it's whff you can in fact I'm looking at whff as one of the main things once Bitcoin flashes soon I think uh 60,000 with is a very good asset to to buy because it it it has it's it's a good asset I don't know how to how to explain it it's like yeah no fundamentals but it it bounces hard and it it's very high quality in my opinion uh Solana beta um but most coins you do not want to buy the dip because if if it start dipping too much uh they're going to zero so it's it's different you yeah you you don't want to buy the deep in most mem coins okay so don't buy the demon most beam coins just the the really strong ones that have hats on M I want to ask you a little bit of a different question so you know salana for example has done an incredible job of getting all the attention and bottling it up through the mem coin Mania how do you think about using that attention productively into maybe the other things going on in the ecosystem the you know fire dancer all these other things coming out is that a way to to funnel that attention yeah I mean there's already an example of this right with the salana mobile Saga phone where you know the Sal is kind of stalled out for a bit and then certain teams like Bon for example incentivized that all holders get a bon airdrop and then it's sold like crazy like I think it sold more in like the first week than the entire past like year uh and then a few multiples of that um and so obviously it's the still on a mobile phone I'm not going to talk too much about it it's a long shot but the meme coin the attention that you received from that coin helped um potentially start a mobile development ecosystem uh and get these app developers on on mobile um give them some guaranteed users that already have these things um and then perhaps like my favorite thing about meme coins by far um and it's a similar analogy to the 2021 nft season you know Solon used to have some outages in 2022 2021 Etc and most of that was actually due to nfts okay so like people would really really bid these jpegs for some reasons that I don't quite get and it would actually overwhelm the validators and so salana actually added like local fee markets a different networking protocol Al together and then now it's obviously still not perfect but now the outages have been stabilized and then now the problem is we there's some bugs uh which surface due to me points right and then there was something called or where it's like proof of work mining on on salana and the thing I like the most about mean points is they stress test like the hell out of the network because so many people make want to make so many so much money the incentives are like basically to break the chain and so it's a free low test for the chain it also generates revenue for the validators and then the validators obviously are more profitable and sustainable but then also like the defi teams on salana you know um like like Ellipsis uh uh drift Etc these teams all get to test their Integrations and you know I think like toly says basically something along the lines of like it's much better to test these with like you know Joe Bowden and elizab I'm I'm going to say let's not say that let's not say that one please uh it's much better to test it with those than with like uh as opposed to when like real financial institutions and like much more serious use cases come um so we can squash these bugs due to the m points and then be much better prepared um uh and so like when builders get like upset like oh I'm not getting any attention because Mee points are all people want to do it's like well actually the mean point is just mean points people just want to have fun you can leverage those to drive more attention to your products and uh stress test your systems and actually use them as somewhat of a positive yeah I me I got to say something there if you're losing market shares to mem coins you have a problem right I mean it's not the mem coin fold is is that your product is not really absolutely um anom I just thought about something you you mentioned backstage uh you're a big Sports guy I know you have the the fight night tomorrow a lot of people will be watching that when it comes to fundamentals of meme coins what we've seen in the past is that uh you know the developer or the representative of a certain meme coin beating up the other guy can be very bullish or very bearish if you're on the other side um are you uh seeing analogy between memec coins and sports I mean in some way the the water cooler talk in cryptospace instead about sports it's about meme coins is there some analogy there um I'm not sure if it's specifically sports but there definitely is like relationships between coins and the people are talking about the coins so it's like last cycle like I said Elon and those Elon would tweet about do those price would go up Elon would mention on whatever show he was on those price would go up and it was like attached to him very very very closely so I think what crypto is kind of discovering this cycle is also not just memec coins but also the social fi projects and that's like where you have some creator influencer person on Twitter or whatever app um and they kind of like you have coins that get attached to them whether it's directly through an nft project or indirectly through whatever they're supporting it's like if that's a trusted individual and they're talking about these things then there's a group of people if you have enough distribution they're like oh I also trust that and listen to this person um and then on the flip side it's like well if somebody loses credibility just like in the same way where if like a VC invests in these projects and then later you only found out this VC is doing like not so great things people also attached his their their that VC's reputation to the projects they invested in so I think it's more of like a social Finance um connection type type of thing it's very like new but I definitely agree like there are people like yo if anom wins we're buying whiff so yeah um we only have a couple minutes left let's get some final thoughts maybe from everybody uh hasib I don't want to ask you which meme coins you're most bullish on going going forward so um maybe can you uh one question that would be interesting when you look at um you know crypto investment it's not exactly like a stock that gets listed on NASDAQ I mean maybe some of them will uh but for the most part the demonetization happens through a coin and you can as you said it's a spectrum between mem coin uh but it can have fundamentals if one of your portfolio projects wants to capture the you know Financial uh DCF of of their project in a mascot coin would that be okay with you I mean I'm never going to say no to somebody trying something new but I would say um like at the end of the day the kernel of what me makes memec coins work is that they are fun they're light and and they engage your community if you can do that regardless of what form your project takes you're probably going to do well in crypto I love it uh and some uh just to kind of get some people starting to scramble on phones there's some memes that don't have a coin yet you know like on Tumblr and other places are there any that stand out to you that don't have a coin yet for the next 5 Seconds between somebody makes it dang I don't even know off top of my head I think like well I'll give a a relatively new one so one that like didn't have a coin until recently one of the oldest Bitcoin memes is like the magic internet money meme so like the wizard with the hat like Ms paint meme it was very popular on Reddit when Bitcoin in bitcoin's early days Bitcoin was trading at like $30 when a meme came out actually the Doge founder found out about Bitcoin through this meme on Reddit and it's like this wizard so the dude that made that Meme has recently made a meme coin on bitcoin which is going to be the runes the new new protocol on bitcoin it's called wizard so that's a relatively new one but that's something that's like it existed 10 years ago it didn't have a coin until like whatever a month or so ago so there's a lot of situations like that where it's like the total adustable market for mem coins is the entire internet anything that was V or popular to people um I think it's just going to continue to happen a lot this cycle love it um Alex any final thoughts yeah my parting thought would be um if buying mem coins wait for large holders to dump otherwise you will very like lose money have to be patient either very early or very patient just just following Jordy or following your friend or or your chat room saying oh look at this funny meme is eventually it's a matter of time and you you are under water the whales matter a lot even more than in something like Bitcoin um M any final thoughts um I mean just have fun really uh don't take it too seriously have fun don't put in stuff you literally cannot afford to lose obviously yeah um check the chain right check if you know I mean even when you're having fun check if the dev just has like a 99% of the supply or something right like just basic things check the Explorers uh some of them like salana there was like this thing called banana minor where like it was literally like we're going to rug you and then people were still going so like I've lost faith but uh you know check the Shain have fun and don't put in what you can't afford to lose thank you so much guys it's been a pleasure hope everybody enjoyed it y all right great job look at that Alexander Jordy stepping in to save the day fantastic all right anome thank you very much for coming out joining us today good job all right Krueger all right good and he made it he made it