DePIN: Real-World Web3 Adoption - TOKEN2049 Dubai 2024

amazing amazing good morning everyone yeah with the Side Event my voice is also not the fittest this morning super excited to be here to be here with all of you I mean we know each other we're working together we're building together in this new space and narrative right one of the core narratives called deepen it is a new word it is a new narrative but the space has been around for much much longer so deepens have been around for much longer than the narrative and we will dive into that but for everyone who hasn't heard about deepen yet it stands for incentivizing people with token incentives to provide real world goods and services that means actual tangible value is being provided through devices robots and machines that individuals can contribute to decentralized service networks and earn money real rewards with and we're going to dive into this but before that we have here Ali from nataks Nico from elop and Teo from cencio before we jump into it I'd love to hear a one- sentence elevator pitch from each of you so that the audience knows you as well as I do sure um so what we building with natics is an open Jo spatel Network and the source of data for this network is what we call internet of cameras um the flagship product that we have is a mobile application you just download it put it on the dashboard of your car as you're driving around the AI is mapping the world collecting Jo spatel data and users actually earn rewards so it's perfect for truck drivers taxi drivers Uber drivers or just any commuters like uh you know me and you awesome with elop we are uh creating an ecosystem for the tokenization of every machine real world asset and for the onchain distribution of the rewards and the revenues to all the fractional owners uh of those machines we tokenize good morning everyone so seleno is using uh the deepen to build the world's largest noise level data map um using a mobile app so same as natics freely available on the iOS or Google Play Store and with that data we want to reshape how we think about real estate choosing gastronomies hotels short-term rentals Etc super cool like incredible tangible real world cases we will dive deeper into that be but before we do that I'd love to hear from you guys because so far web 3 has been a lot about meterse nfts and so on so not so tangible in the real world do you think the world and web3 is ready for suddenly real world physical infrastructure running on that technology well I go first I think there is quite a lot of work we need to do but for example in our first uh showcase or in the first pilot project we did a couple of years ago that we tokenized uh a Tesla Fleet a car sharing Tesla Fleet and we saw that when let's say web 2 people see the machine or the car on the street they can touch it it's tangable we can bring real Mass adoption to to blockchain so if they see it's not just a a digital picture if it's something real they can touch then uh a lot can happen so yeah I think uh sileno guys should should uh sympathize with me on on on this one but uh what we realize is that smartphones are getting stronger and stronger they have you know AI accelerated chips which means they can run AI super super efficiently they have all the kind of sensors that you need from microphone to camera to gyroscope GPS to label the data with location um you know this wasn't as as good as it is today four years ago three years ago so the market is ripe and for example us that have a smartphone versus strategy um this is I think crucial for for scaling right um this is something that you can you know on board millions of users without much friction without without logistical issues without you know um a lot of other hassles that come for example when you have to you know build a hardware and ship a hardware so yeah I would argue you know today is the best time to build a deep in solution amazing I share a similar opinion so I think we have to focus some value generation value creation um and that's why we chose to build a product that doesn't feel web 3 um to you know to drive adoption we have to stop caring about the technology put that in the background focus on the real world utility and that's what we're trying to build incredible like users using web 3 without actually knowing they use web 3 right and this is where the mass adoption is happening yeah I mean we we touched upon the the mobile part of it right both of you are building mobile phone Deens what is the advantage of that and why didn't you choose to go with a hardware approach right most deepens that are out there build their own hardware and you took another route maybe Ali you want to go first um yeah so for us actually I think people who know natics they might have heard this we pivoted away from Hardware so we were actually supplying AI software for CCTV cameras I'm sure you see a couple of them in this venue as well uh for Smart City applications for for you know um Mobility applications um and we realized it's not scalable it was extremely difficult to scale from capex investment point of view that they had to buy a lot of hardware and invest in it UPF front to to you know Logistics of it and installation and all that kind of you know headaches that comes with it so um you know why we chose a smartphone was multiple reasons one of them was that smartphone has all of the capabilities that we need like I said it's a it's a supercomputer and a sensor hotel in your pocket um the second reason is people don't buy a smartphone to expect an Roi to buy a Lamborghini right they they they buy an a smartphone because they text message with it they you know they email with it they you know they do their daily work with it so the ROI is already there and if you can monetize it for a couple of different applications jackpot and it also gave us a medium to um to add a ton of other utilities to the um to our users right so for example in our case we started to provide navigation um dash cam service parking availability ility which is going to come soon and this made it a utility hop so um yeah um we can go into challenges of it later as well because it's not all Utopia but that's why at least we um are laser Shar focus on our smartphone strategy amazing and you you even have partnered right because you're both running on the same hardware and precisely so yes we do have a partnership standing with natex and I think we share a common philosophy on that um you know there's 50 billion devices I I would I iot devices out there many of which are capable to measure decibels U that's what we do so no audio content and There's 7 billion smartphones so the scaling part um is what you need in order to create a network that is commercially viable and being completely software based allows you to iterate much faster than if you were Hardware driven so getting constant feedback from you know both the supply and demand side of the network is crucial your time to Market to deploy new features is faster and so let's say now with our initial customers they need certain value generation in Geographic areas or certain data sets you know that they want to have we turn around develop these and uh iterate with the community and so all of this feedback loop is we're talking a matter of weeks in comparison to Hardware that you have to ship perhaps there's bux you have to resent you know there's a big logistical uh part involved with this and the dynamic reward system systems allows you to take the demand side and say you know this geographic area is being uh bought okay so I'm going to incentivize this higher uh than areas of lesser commercial interest Hardwares uh Project Specific Hardwares that perhaps are not Dynamic stand in the middle of nowhere which is good for the user but not so great for the community absolutely we like to refer to you guys smartphone deepens as gateway drugs for deepen right because such a low barrier to entry and anyone can download both of your applications and get started and then of course right like they can expand and also buy Hardware at some point but this is an amazing entry and almost everyone has a smartphone right and this is brilliant yeah just one point I was realizing I think uh uh Theo can agree with me we're not against Hardware Hardware makes sense in a lot of cases it's not that Hardware is bad software is good there is no world you know we're not extremist in that sense but whenever you can do software it's it has its own advantages especially when you want to be lean when you want to you know ship fast and and and one other Advantage by the way that I also realized recently is um when you're are Hardware one of the challenges is you know you have to upgrade your Hardware as the time goes on like every one or two years you want to ship a new one with new specs because Hardwares you know have a have a lifetime you know they get outdated and with software I was realizing you know we're an app and you know in case of silencio the microphones are getting better they have these array microphones and so on you want to add other computational aspect to it so the AI chip gets better for us the camera they're getting lighters and so on and we can actually you know move with the user because it's just a app with a username and password so if you just upgrade your iPhone from 11 to 15 MH we go with you yeah we don't have to do same same same goes with the with the cencio guys and I think this is I never looked at it like this but it's uh it's you know towards the composability and really you know um keeping your user base and just growing from there totally and I think it's all about introducing then Hardware potentially at the right time right because it's going from zero to one like how do you bring in scalability you need millions of users to build the viable deepen Network and it's really difficult to build a viable deeper network if you have to sell Hardware a million of times but if you have a network of multi-million users and then introduce Hardware that makes sense you you know it's a completely different go to market yeah amazing yeah Nico but not everyone right not most of physical infrastructure can't run on smartphones and a lot of physical infrastructure if we think about a Tesla being Mobility infrastructure or wind turbine being energy infrastructure can those cases also run as a deepen model and on web 3 yes definitely I mean we're also building software so it definitely makes sense uh to focus on software but in a lot of different areas like Mobility we will not drive with software we will drive with a car with a a taxi drone uh also imagine if there are autonomous trucks delivering goods to to a robotics farm so there will be a lot of machines powering the world in the future and we focus a lot on fractionalizing this machines in in form of token so that everyone can become a part of it so currently there is you big corporates owning all these machines earning from all those machines and the the broad Mass the people they can't really profit from that and we think by tokenizing all the machines the smart machines where we get data every second from we can make everyone participate in this uh in this value streams and so every web 2 company uh can actually become a deepin uh with our technology by tokenizing their Hardware I was thinking for a very long time about things like car sharing right like how can something like this run on web 3 how can it be decentralized because in a cash sh sharing you you have a lot of operations right you need to maintain the fleet you need to have insurance and so on and so on so it's really difficult to decentralize Big use cases or when you build a wind Park of wind turbines people can't just come together and say hey let's let's build some wind turbines somewhere right you need a certain operation behind it a certain legal setup and so on and I think being able to crowdsource the capital to build those things and then distrib the revenues of those is fantastic and in terms of what you guys provide as a platform for deep yeah big machine deepens to scale and then of course going more and more decentralized over time right in those definitely so for those machines you need a professional operator so I don't know how to operate a wind turbine or anything so this can still be in the in the hands of a Energy company or also the trucks or Vehicles yeah you need to need to change the tires you need to charge them clean them so the community will not do this maybe a little bit but uh it needs to be a company handling all those uh Daily Business all those daily tasks they can keep a portion of the the revenue of the rewards for yeah for covering all the costs in the system and uh the rest the profit can be split between the operator and between all the fractional owners worldwide incredible machine real world assets with all the AI let's say wave that has been coming it reminds me to the movies we're in the future they say you know we become irrelevant and this is how we kind of can sit back maybe I'm a bit you know futuristic but you as a human beings we can sit back and let the machines work for us by through this kind of fractional ownership it it sounds pretty utop but amazing maybe dystopian too but but that's that's that's one way of seeing for us to stay relevant uh you know absolutely absolutely like we all yeah I just want to mention the autonomous car is not that futuristic so they're already driving in in in some cities and it is a it is a robo actually you just uh call it via app you sit in it it drives you to the place where uh where you want to go and everyone owning this car not fractionalized yet hopefully just in our car training service for a couple of years so everyone can earn of it so it's already happening and there there will be a more in my opinion it's the most common job in the US is driving a vehicle be it a truck or a taxi and in a couple of years those 5 million people doing that job will be automated so there will be no more driving of vehicles but with that model everyone now can own a share of a taxi Fleet of a trucking Fleet and yeah you can maybe do whatever you you love and follow your hobbies while you earn from from an autonomous fleet of cars and that is definitely a much better future than if a few big companies would own all those fleets and would make all the money by themselves so there's a big big impact happening here too you guys have not been the first ones building a noise pollution Network there has been a project I think we had a Twitter space the other day hosted by you Ali where people were building something based on Research for 15 years or so and you've built now the biggest Network within one year using the deepend model like how did you do that and how does that work yes so um actually noise pollution has been mapped with the first motorolas which if you think about it must have been like 2004 2005 um and we managed within one year to create a network 10 times the size in you know 16 plus no more 18 plus years less time so I think it's it's really fascinating to see how deepen drives are that's uh uh there's another company called sound print that does venue checkins so there's 800 million people who are extremely noise sensitive and they want to understand you know before they visit venues how loud will it be and that Community is completely uh based on an impact project and you know that there are still a few hundred, people contributing day to-day there um going into a venue checking in leaving a noise score behind um we manag to do nearly 2 million check-ins in 3 months and they have I think 1.4 million check-ins in 7 years so it just demonstrates you this exponential um scalability that you can reach with initial Network effects and creating this data what in the power of incentives right I mean that is one of the the main things in the deepen space right there there many things the blockchain is used for but being able to bootstrap with token incentives is just incredible right because ultimately we humans we do things for reason and if there's no good incentive to do something it's much much harder to to scale and and and do that right just on the impact purpose yeah we like to refer that as mining 2.0 so if the net outcome to society is positive what we're building here the reor utility uh is is more significant uh than than anything else absolutely yeah and I mean on that note as well Ali like I've been following your guys's Twitter very closely and I see all those amazing pictures of truck drivers and so on like folks that you wouldn't think of as traditional web 3 people who take pictures when they're not driving of using natics and mapping the the real world in real time how do you do that and how do you attract them yeah so um first of all our strategy from day one was we wanted to build a product that is for non- crypto people too so crypto people all of them are here we have a huge Vibrant Community I have to be honest like the the the energy of crypto Community is is crazy we love it but you know to go above 100,000 people 200 th000 people if you want to go to few million people you need to have this non- crypto strategy um so we Tred to reflect that in a lot of you know our product development we started to add utility for them we started to add non- crypto rewards for them in seleno guys have a have a very similar you know uh mindset and and you know strategy um compared to us um and yeah I mean since day one we have been doing a lot of let's say Web Two promotion uh you know um so instead of just working for example with the crypto influencers we work with tax influencers which you know people might not think that it's relevant but you know for us it is because those guys are you know have an audience that that that matters for us these guys are the guys that are eight hours on the road you know they put the most amount of kilometers into the system or the truck drivers you know um so yeah I think um and I think deepen is all about that right it's it's all about going Beyond the crypto community and kind of applying to masses yeah um yeah absolutely no I really really love that and it's uh it's an explosion to happen in terms of active users in web 3 that don't really again they don't care that the blockchain runs in the background right it's super super cool and Nico I mean on that note right we're attracting a lot of new users into web 3 that haven't anything and you're also attracting a lot of companies into web 3 that haven't done anything in web 3 before it's like could you tell a bit more about the the business problem that you're solving for those companies yes I mean we have in our company with investors out of the energy or Al Mobility space and they see it's extremely important to to democratize yeah their their product so even the big corporates not all of them of course but some want to get the their users their Community uh into the system and don't want to be the big corporate earning anything uh earning everything and they see huge potential in this in tokenizing you wind farms solar panels or also other car sharing fleets all around the city taxes and the demand is there it's a little bit more difficult to explain to oldfashioned companies how the entire system works but same is from from you guys we try to keep it as as non-blockchain as possible from the outside so people can invest with their credit card with on ramping Services uh we we buy the product in the background so people don't actually need to know that we're running on blockchain and on on the other side any dein project with Hardware they directly understand it they understand how fractionalization can work how people can participate in it and I think with the first first uh pilot projects or some cool showcases one at your stand at the at the peak stand X Marina Cafe is yeah powered by eloop technology so I think when the big corporates see how easy it is and that the the product still can be purchased with with dollars or with Fiat there there there will happen quite a lot so we need to to get some showcases and some pilot projects live we're we're doing that already and then the big corporates will follow for sure yeah it's it's pretty amazing like at at the booth really there's the first ever tokenized rooc Cafe in the world that means the community can invest into it then the coffee is bought because they cost six figure right like they're really expensive those machines but then when you crowdsource that money that's quite effectively and they generate a lot of Revenue right every coffee every ice cream that's sold is revenue and that revenue is being split between all the people who helped buying this Cafe so it's it's another like next to the robo taxis right it's such a clear case where you have an autonomous machine making money and that Revenue ownership can be split for the first time yes it's all all about the the democratization of those machines not everyone can just buy a machine worth 100K maybe they don't know how to operate it but now you can just invest $50 one K and you're a part of that business with a few clicks you don't have even have to be in that country so you can invest in every machine all around the world and and earn from it that's uh our vision yeah yeah it's borderless fundraising as well and if you think about like the the real total value locked that can come onto into web 3 is crazy because now we're talking about machines that are worth millions and billions and that's going to be reflected on Shane as well very happy it's on the peak network is the robo dog as well fractionalized yeah it's uh it got its peak ID already yeah if you guys haven't seen it's pretty cool you can pet it and then it just does cute stuff for you yeah amazing yeah come come visit us at the booth yeah I mean now deep in summer is starting right so it's uh it's an incredible timing that we are all building in that deep in space Building Together what are your pred predictions Ali Teo in terms of users that that you can attract into your mobile phone deepens let's say until the end of the year what are the what are the goals where you go first hopefully you know we don't set a goal but it comes no but we did uh set out for us the the the goal for 2024 to get a million sensors into the network uh today a little over 200k uh sensors completely organically so that's just mind-blowing to us um of course our CMO has been doing an excellent job in that sense but it shows that Network effects uh you know can spark uh gamification features do work uh to incentivize other people to join the network and our goal is a million sensors this year 10 million sensors within the next three years incredible um for us as well we are already around 100,000 registered drivers so from camera network of view point of view um we are the largest camera Network at this point um and um I think by end of this year we would uh be hopefully around half a million Camas that's what we were pushing for and I think I fully agree with uh with Teo this network effect that we see is insane I mean once people know about you then you know um it it it's scatters from there on so yeah um and I think a lot of other deep in projects we're going to see some crazy number I mean you're calling it you know deep in summer uh for me forget about the you know the um market caps that are going to raise this year I think the real real thing that is going to happen is the size of the networks they're going to go crazy this year by end of the year I don't think I think we are going to make some noise in the VB 2 world you know we're going to turn some heads because they're going to be like how the hell did you guys do something like this when we have been trying to invest hundreds of millions to billions of dollars to do it in the past year so a lot of giants would turn heads and that's where you know that's where the um flyv effect of deepen happens and then I'm quite excited I think this year is going to be crazy the next year which uh many people think is going to be you know bare Market is is even crazier for us because that comes to the time that we are going to heavily monetize towards um you know and work with a lot of big web 2 players maybe just adding on to something Alessa just said I think the far more exciting part is not how many people we can get in but how many people we can uh positively impact uh lives with uh through our data without them even knowing they're interacting with it so um in your case you know mapping having a fresh map day to day will be something most people access via Google hopefully uh in our case you know going into uh also Google gole hopefully and showing you how loud it is and people it's just we like to say like you consume your weather on your phone you don't really care where it comes from you care it's accurate and so we want to provide the same infrastructure on this level using web 3 to crowdsource but consume on a web 2 level I love that and I think what's mind-blowing is it would be almost impossible to build that in a centralized way right like how much money would the company need to invest to build sensor networks globally in every city in every corner it's almost impossible like you're saying right you'll turn heads in in web 2 because this model is just like the data sets both of you are generating you can't do in web 2 no matter how much Capital you invest I'm I'm 100% convinced of that yeah future looks very bright 100% amazing Nico what's your outlook for elop for the next year for or until the end of the year I mean since we're B2B focused we think we can bring a crazy amount of web web two people to the space imagine a a Mobility company like uber starts to to tokenize their cars and they send out a newsletter or push notification to their hundreds of millions of users that people can now invest in in that service so as soon as we've onb boed some big big companies there could be millions or hundreds of millions of users uh coming to blockchain and we saw only from from our old car sharing business with Al about 100K users we just organically did it we with inbound marketing so thousands of people started to invest in the cars and when those big corporates uh understand it or also you smaller companies with a lot of uses and and Hardware they can bring all the people uh on chain and to the elop network and and to Peak and we think there is yeah the possibility of of millions in the next years so the the first projects we have in pipeline they they have two three four million uh uh end users on their side and they're starting to send out the information that you can now invest in their product so we of course rely also on them that they do good marketing because we're the we're the tech provider but there there will a lot of people for sure 100% yeah I think it's really worth mentioning right you guys have tokenized a fleet of Teslas in Vienna that's operational with a hundred of thousands of users who then invested in that Fleet and then they started treating the fleet as their own because they had a stake in it right so there are many values benefits outside of the the actual Revenue yes generation I think most of you used the Kick Scooter before and yeah in our city in Vienna or also in some others they are I don't know in the in the river or on the trees or people throw it around but imagine you you own a part of uh this vehicle you will treat it like it's your own so people will treat it well it's good for everyone it's good for the normal user which is is not owning it it's good for the one owning it and earning from it and that's what we saw in on the car side so we really had a specific Fleet only for token holders those cars almost looked like brand new after a year and the other ones are not that good in in in good words and I think that's a a huge positive impact beside all the the the financial benefits the the company can get so the the community your building be behind your company is amazing so they all get brand ambassadors they get the best users they if it's a hardware you use like in Mobility that they treat it much better so it's a complete different company where all the users becomes somehow shareholders or stakeholders they feel like shareholders they own a part of the uh of the machine it's the the closest possible in investment so it's not just a a dividend once per year so you you can earn every minute every second actually uh but the the entire Community thing that's what changes a a lot of services in our opinion yeah absolutely thanks so much gentlemen it's a pleasure and to be with you on stage to build with you to make make sure that web 3 really moves towards real real world adoption I mean that is happening thanks so much for joining me today on the panel thanks for having us here