NFTs, Digital Communities, and New Economic Paradigms - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2023

hello thank you for joining us I'm Amanda cassette founder and CEO of Serotonin the web 3 marketing agency and product Studio I have an amazing panel of guests with me today I'm hoping we can start with introductions maybe beginning with Matt sure I'm Matt Medved co-founder CEO and editor-in-chief of now media you may know our Flagship brand nft now web 3 digital media platform building the future tokenized media we also have the Gateway we just brought to Korea is the largest digital art experience to ever come to the region I'm super excited for this great panel let's go uh hey Frank I started NFC projects called d-gods and Utes and the number one Luca Nets fanboy let's go uh I'm looking at some the CEO of pudgy penguins and uh I'm also Frank's number one fan we got a lot of good fans on stage a lot of fans in the audience um let's start with a question for Matt but please hop in and chat and respond and let's have fun um we've seen this rise and fall and maybe resurrection of the nft economy what kinds of aspects of nfts should we be paying attention to heading into the next bull market honestly never bet against the power of memes and people having fun like I feel like those two factors have driven so much of the metas that we've seen in the space of the projects that come out of nowhere from like Jack butcher's checks to like when Goblin Town had its moment to like everything has been driven by like the power of memetic expression and also like people having fun banding together like we're in the depths of a bear market right now like the people who are still showing up here are doing it out of a sense of belief they're doing it out of a sense of conviction and like you create opportunities those people to connect to have fun together that's an incredibly powerful force right and so like I feel like there's that whole like this like you know the the top of the curve the the low curve the mid curve thing it's like don't overthink it if you see like this like The Medic Express if you see like internet culture rallying around something pay attention to that because like one thing we've seen most recently is like a lot of big platforms that came into the space and were like yo I'm gonna bring in all this big web 2 IP and you know it's just gonna drop it here and it's going to be a success you know like recur nifties all that they're all out of business now um the what the the projects that are still succeeding the projects that are still like moving the needle here two of whom are up here on the stage with pudgy and D Gods like this is about medium native culture right so that's what I would say we should be paying attention to as we move from Baron to Bull how about you guys what do you think we should be paying attention to yeah I think um Colts obviously like are gonna be sustainable just because there's a inherent value that people see with each other like it's the it's the big difference right like a community where people value each other want to spend time with each other is obviously going to find its way and adapt to whatever the new metas or ecosystem how the ecosystem changes and then also I think again what Luca is doing with building a real [ __ ] business I think uh even interesting Insight is like most of the people I've met throughout this week everyone's like working on something it's been like other conferences in the past you meet somebody they might be a Trader they might just be like doing something else they're interested in nfcs everybody in that meeting even at this conference the first question I've been asking is what are you working on and people always have interesting answers and so I think that yeah like the next wave of nfts is finding creative ways to leverage that community and leverage nfts to build something that's a lot bigger yeah it's a it's an interesting question and an interesting thesis when you're looking at the future of nfts if you understand nfts I think they're going to be the most important product for the blockchain and for Consumer adoption at the end of the day we're social beings we're cultural beings and this is the first time in the era of this technology that people are able to interact and identify with this technology in a seamless and consumer-friendly way you know I'm a firm believer in this and I know Frank is a firm believer in this and I know Matt is as well but a new era of nfts is upon us and I think one cater to the consumer uh and Catering to your existing Community is eventually going to take precedent in a way that I think we haven't seen before awesome I want to direct the next question uh first to Frank which is you've started two successful projects not just one what are the lessons that other creators should know based on your experience I think that people under index how important attention is and especially in crypto it's like people spend a lot of time fixating on a lot of details that they matter but they won't matter if there's nobody to pay attention to it you know a good example of this even outside of nfts like Dogecoin stays a top 10 market cap you know cryptocurrency and if you evaluate crypto strictly on something like pure utility that you might look at that and think that's dumb but if you evaluate it as a closer to an index on attention it makes a lot of sense I mean Dogecoin there's more Americans to know about Dogecoin than ethereum and so I think that uh that is something that a lot of creators Miss is they'll write the long white paper they'll create the really long idea that you know it's not ultimately to match point memetic and then they struggle with getting basic distribution and I think that yeah like that should be a focus earlier on in the process and trying to even make ideas and make things that would fit within a tweet or fit in a bite-sized way that makes it easy for people to talk about and share because if it's too complex of an idea it's not even going to penetrate the crypto the crypto Twitter ecosystem let alone Mass Market let alone people outside of it and so yeah I just think that's something a lot of creators Miss so as a marketer I obviously believe in the importance of memes and Cults but just to play Devil's Advocate and push back on what all of you guys were saying what about fundamentals uh like with a meme or a cult couldn't opinion about the project suddenly change and then it would be gone because it has focused on memes rather than something else like what sometimes happens with Dogecoin I think it's about aligned interest in culture I think at the end of the day when you when you understand the difference between you know some technically Savvy product and some cultural product the networked value I think is the most important value uh that I think people underestimate when you understand uh success and in business I preach this a lot just as an entrepreneur but it's not really what you know but a lot of what who you know and I think these you know whether it's rallying behind a meme or rallying behind some sort of message or some sort of product at the end of the day I think that is the technical utility that people are looking for I think behavior in the crypto and the blockchain space is too transactional at the end of the day the era of emotional utility is here you look at companies like Disney and Warner and Pixar have built trillions of dollars of market value off of emotional utility and that's what brings people together if we were AI robots I would agree with you but we're not and at the end of the day people want like as Frank says they want friendships they want to cultivate behind an idea they don't necessarily just want you know 100 rev share and some transactional nominal value those things end up not working almost every single time and to add to this you know it's interesting because I think where it gets confused is when people do things that you don't necessarily need an nft to do so for us for example we've had like 120 events this year we haven't hosted a vast majority of those but if you think about it it's like if I'm into the Lakers a basketball team and I'm following all the content around the Lakers and I meet someone else that's a Lakers fan it's pretty sick like you got to talk to them they're like oh you see this recent trade you watch the recent game and you you have like this magic Icebreaker where you can get a lot closer and what we've noticed within our community we have a global audience like that's the magic of nfts you have people that are interested and excited about it but you compare that to a regular content creator you know people that are deep in crypto deep into nfts they're spending a disproportionate amount of their time engaging in this community and part of it is because they spent a lot of money on it part of it because is because they're building something in the space part of is they're just having a lot of fun and so having these events all over the like all over the world people becoming best friends on this like internet native Community is something that I did on forums growing up like I just grew up on the internet and it makes a lot of sense to me and I think that the older that you get the harder that is to find and nfts have the sweet spot where you people have this aligned interest they're following the same kind of content pipeline so they meet up and they have you know a lot to talk about and they're much more likely to form these deep relationships which is hard to even put a price on that's just one example I think broadly across the space where people get the most excited are just things that you can do that are only possible because of nfts versus just like nft adjacent or web3 adjacent and so that's where I think fundamentals it's such a broad word in the same way utility is it's by definition the most broad word possible just means like useful in some capacity so I think there's a lot of Discovery left in the space and that's why people complain about it today but I'm optimistic yeah yeah I love the fact that you brought up fundamentals um because that's been our Mantra since day one is building a business based on fundamentals obviously we're a media company it's a bit of a different model than the community-based uh nft project but you know for us it was like you know uh we're an open book you know year one we did 900k in Revenue uh year two we did 3.2 million in Revenue we're on Pace for 10 growth and that's all about programmatic ads uh you know we've always been all about building a new media model doing things better um and building that based on authenticity and and credibility you know uh during the Bull Run uh we we turned down high seven figures in Revenue because it would have cost us our credibility every like Cookie Cutter pfp every like rug pull every like low effort like cash grab we're trying to throw money at us for marketing and promo and we said no to all of them we said no to every single partner a potential partner potential sponsored content all that for our first nine months because we recognize that our credibility is worth a lot more than what people were throwing at us and and that once you lose that trust you can never regain it the first people we said yes to were coinbase and United Masters and that's the bar that we set and that's the precedent that we set in terms of you want to work with us we're going to be building a business based on fundamentals um and you know in in a market and in a climate where there's so much smoke and mirrors and vaporware like we really have stuck to that I love these answers because you're talking about having a business with traditional fundamentals and our other answers which I think are also really cool are about how the friendships and connections from these communities are a type of fundamentals themselves and that IP can be fundamental that Disney has these long-term relationships with its fans and its users and there's no reason why there can't be new IP that creates those kinds of long-term relationships so I want to direct the next question to you Luca which is you've created one of the few and first successful Bridges between digital and physical do you think that's going to be a sustainable business model for projects in the space or is it unique to you and what were the factors that went into your success there yeah I I think there's a new era of nfts and I think the era of bringing a product and meeting consumers where they are is upon us at the end of the day I think we all believe in the digital aspect and the digital future but to pretend that the digital future is here right now today is to be negligent of just consumer behavior and where the consumer is I very much want to meet the consumer where they are and so when you look at you know pudgy penguins and where pudgy Penguins positioned it's the number one cute IP on the blockchain and qip in the world has the highest addressable Tam or total addressable market for Consumer behavior and so I think it's my responsibility and my ability to go out and reach an impact a a real and sustainable user base that is clearly consuming and digesting all of this content and all these products elsewhere I want to meet the consumer where they are today I have no interest in telling them about nft keys or web3 at the end of the day that will happen with the tides of the sales of you know whether the bull market comes back and when it comes back I think very much today is how do I create a connection between a character that people love that people can unite around and participate without knowing that it's necessarily about nfts or web3 I think if I can accomplish that I can create a user base that's a lot different than our current user base today I think one of the things that has plagued the nft space and honestly I think plague's just the blockchain industry in general is this transactional relationship if we want to win and if we want this industry to win it has to be a consumer facing industry that is the inevitable elephant in the room that it seems nobody wants to address because it's hard to address and so for us we have this cute pudgy penguin that now today gets 50 million views a day across all social channels right now we're on track to sell 10 million dollars in retail sales and toys in our first seven months and this is the first example I think of crypto Joe's first ever consumer-facing product that whether you're you know whatever region you're in whether you're in Asia or Europe or America or your age demographic from a five-year-old to a 60 year old no matter your ethnic background or your interests you all can rally behind a cohesive character that everybody can enjoy and so if I can create that emotional attachment with this cute little pudgy penguin when web3 and nfts start to get a little bit more momentum I will be the most familiar character in the industry and that's what we want to do and so based on you know what you just asked is can anybody do it yes and I want everybody to do it every time we take a step forward I hope it incentivizes you know whether you're an L1 or an L2 or an nft project there is an angle around consumer-facing products that you have to be paying attention to I feel like this industry is looking inwards and not outwards and eventually we're going to fail if we don't start looking outwards you have to do it it's hard it's a challenge but it's necessary if we really want blockchain crypto web 3 and nfts are really win Frank are you awesome for that I just want to say like the thing that inspires me so much even just being up here to Lucas I think you know he doesn't talk about enough but he's so such a beast when he was doing e-commerce you know in web 2 and I think like broadly like we just have a really high Talent person that came into the space and I feel like we should all be very lucky that you know like he is representing the space in this way and I think all the stuff going on with pudgy Penguins is deeply exciting and in the crypto Twitter sphere doesn't get talked about enough like we talk about all the time and I'm always blown away but yeah I think the crypto Twitter sphere should have we're out here talking about friend Tech which I think is cool but you know Mass adoption but this is like these are doing real numbers and excited to see where it goes yeah I think for me um we actually talk about this a lot like physical and digital seems like a logical pair like I think about broadly in the future when people buy something that's physical having some type of digital receipt digital claim whether that's an nft whether it's a collectible or a different digital experience like it's obvious like of course all these things are going to happen of course of course everything that you kind of interact with is gonna have some type of a digital relationship I think the question again comes back to me nfts like when people talk about nfts for ticketing right it's like that's not going to make people's bags pump that are in this space today but it's exciting and that that means that people might have a wallet that they care about it means that we might have more infrastructure for people to care about the different types of nfts that we have um today I think we want to do more with physical but we've definitely been much more focused on the internet native Community Building side more than anything but yeah it's just exciting across the board there yeah like a no-brainer yeah uh yeah like the the interplay between digital and physical is like really that like the vision behind the gateway is really squared on that um let me just see like a show of hands like who out there raise your hand if you own an nft cool love to see it so everyone whether you raise your hand or not like everyone in this room is we are all part of the last generations to grow up without digital ownership from day one so future Generations are going to grow up owning things digitally they're going to own things physically they're not going to have the same Hang-Ups as we do they're not going to talk about right click save they're not going to talk about how do I hang it on my wall they are going to appreciate them both from their own unique strengths and appeals and ultimately that's the vision that we're building for that's the future that we're building for a lot of the reluctance to accept this is going to age out and so for us especially you know because when we started nft now it was really about courting the art world that's where we started was in digital art and putting art out there and we had to like we had to recognize that a lot of people you know like had all these misconceptions about what this space was right they felt fear about it they felt threatened by it I was like look if the only thing I knew about nfts or what I read about in the headlines like I might not like them either but you know what at the end of the day it's always an and it's not an or right people are always going to need paintings and sculptures for their home and they're also going to want to look really good in metaverse and they're going to want to own digital art and put it in their galleries like these things are not mutually exclusive and so the first iteration of the Gateway was about showing the art world that and since then we've been expanding that into lifestyle into digital fashion into luxury into gaming to show people that this digital future is around the corner and if you're not building for it then you're going to fall behind yeah and sorry just one one last point on that I think you know when you look at the fundamentals of nfts it's really you know digital ownership right and ownership when you when you leverage that digital ownership it just creates a better value proposition like look at we'll use pudgy toys for an example when you buy a pudgy toy for ten dollars you unlock nfts at no cost to you that's a value proposition where you can then go trade those nfts exchange those with friends or take them somewhere else but that's a unique value proposition that any other toy next to me on the same shelf whether they're a more familiar IP it's a better value for the end consumer it's a better bang for your buck and at the end of the day I think as digital and physical start to intertwine the idea of buying something physically being able to redeem something digitally and then being able to do whatever I want with that whether it's buy sell trade use or exchange with a friend or a counterparty that adds such an interesting layer to the collectible and the consumer product Market that I think is just not to be underestimated totally and you're also pushing forward the way that the media business model Works do you want to talk about that for a moment yeah absolutely so um from day one nft now we knew we wanted to build a better media model um since we launched nftnow.com uh we have not had a single cookie no pixels uh like we don't even need a privacy policy because we do not track our users um that has been telling us a really important for us because from day one we've said privacy is a fundamental human right and coming from the Legacy Media world you know I I founded billboard dance I ran Spin Magazine as editor-in-chief um I I ran content Modern Luxury I've seen just how broken the web 2 media model is from the inside out in web 2 media people are the product um there's been a complete lack of trust public credibility in the media is at its lowest point ever you have misaligned incentives based on programmatic advertisements that got everybody into click bait race to the bottom and you have all these uh violations of privacy and so at the end of the day we were like hey you know what the difference between audience and community that we're seeing in the space with web 3 is really powerful what does that look like translates to the media model and so when we talk about tokenized media and building tokenized media there's two buckets to it there's the ACT there's a tokenization of communities around media which is super exciting because it's an opportunity to realign incentives create what has been a really one-way Street for Generations make it two-way make it a whole roundabout where people can get involved where they can actually co-create the stories that are being told and uh they can actually earn rewards for doing so you know we are building the now Network the now pass is our membership pass to access that the now networks will be launching later this year and what we're going to do is allow our users to be able to actually earn XP points uh you know by consuming our content by sharing our content by engaging with our content by voting on which artists are going to be in next up and things like that and actually being able to share in the value that we create thinking about this almost as like a loyalty program and leveraging our network of amazing projects amazing Builders amazing artists in the space to just create value for the people who like really really like talk with us and want to do it the other bucket which is super interesting now of tokenized media is the actual tokenization of media which is articles podcasts video images photo you know video across the board on the blockchain and that's something that's actually gained a ton of importance in recent in recent months because of the rise of AI disinformation we've been talking about the need to tokenize content for on-chain provenance for verifiable authenticity for a long time and honestly at audiences like this people's people's eyes tended to glaze over they're like they didn't really get it they know the community side makes sense but like what is this for but now ever since those viral photos of of uh of trump getting arrested that were made in mid-journey fooled tons of people in America ever since the AI generated photo of the of the explosion at the Pentagon knocked billions off the S P 500 look like AI is never going to be less sophisticated than it is right now it is only going to get more hyper realistic it is only going to become more dangerous in the hands of Nefarious actors and we are going to need to verify the truth we're heading into an election year in the United states where we are going to be tested the media is the fourth branch of government and it's going to be tested and we're building Tech around that and that's something that I think is incredibly important as we navigate the future of understanding like how does one verify the truth in this era so those are those sessions are super media business model is hard it is to the way you know the internet was first introduced to us Luca you recently tweeted that every major tech company should be incubating IP with the cost of creating content potentially going down because of AI maybe you can talk about how that IP is valuable in a world where content is theoretically cheap yeah it's a this is an interesting uh an interesting thing that I tweeted but I basically encourage every major Tech business or honestly any any major business that can afford to to spin it off to to lean into IP and to lean into character building as a go to market strategy and the reason why I think of this is the same reason why I think pudgy Penguins is going to be one of the most important products in the crypto industry is because I'm very much a trojan horse for this space when you sign up to when you buy a toy for pudgy penguins and you sign up to our platform that you you redeem via the QR code on the toy you're signing up and creating a custody wallet via a custody wallet solution and you have your first blockchain wallet within 60 seconds of purchasing that toy if you follow the instructions at the end of the day we need to meet consumers where they are and to meet consumers where they are is to meet them in a place that is unintimidating and is familiar there is nothing easier than to invade the hearts and minds of everyday people than with characters characters are Infamous for doing this it is not my playbook and it's not me telling you this it's just a known fact you see this recently with what Nerf is doing McDonald's just introduced their character back again it's it Reddit has been doing it for a while now it's a great medium to get people excited and to take intimidating products and intimidating roll outs and make them unintimidating a character is a great way and a great medium to get people involved and I think this is not just applicable for blockchain and for the crypto industry though I think it's probably the most important critical facet today I think every industry can leverage cute characters or any character to get their message across to Their audience but and to your point on content becoming cheaper or you're going to see so much of [ __ ] on your timeline every day then I think this is where Community ultimately that the buzzword that it's become matters in the it's going to be harder and harder and I tell content creators in the space this all the time it's gonna be harder and harder to get in a timeline they're literally monetizing the attention economy now people are getting their payouts and so I think you know Finding Your Niche and finding your your core group um is going to be so important and such a huge Advantage towards scaling and growing outside of that concentric Circle where if you go blind into like you know just hitting the algorithm I mean I've had tweets that have gotten like twenty thousand thirty thousand likes and I'll get 50 new followers from it no joke because like when you guys see a viral tweet are you our ex post or whatever are you like going and following the person like most of the time not really so building that native audience and finding people that care about the thing that you're doing is quickly becoming a playbook for [ __ ] every company now every company has their Community Department every every company is is trying to figure out how to have their core Die Hard people and and leverage them in the best way and I think again nfts that's a place where they fit kind of snugly in an interesting way so the answer is that with this giant content asymmetry that's coming from AI building communities around content is the differentiator but just throwing it back to you Frank you clearly believe in more than just content and Community you recently migrated your project to the ethereum mainnap so you think technology matters sometimes when I have these conversations about Mass adoption of crypto or web3 people say nobody cares about the underlying technology but clearly you made a decision for a reason do you think that consumers are going to care or do you think that projects need to care to be totally honest and this is why it's super fun being friends with Luca because we actually have different takes on this but it's interesting to sharpen um I actually don't really care about Mass Market at all right now like I'm I'm a big believer in concentric and like referral based growth right like we have our little bubble right now today let's just say this is the nft space it's like right there it's tiny and outside of that you have like crypto people that are interested in crypto outside of that you have people that are like never bought crypto but interested broadly in crypto nfts what I think the worst strategy is is honestly trying to sell somebody something that they don't inherently want so the example of this was like Creator League recently was trying to hide it was this thing with Mr Beast and all these big creators and they were like hiding the fact that they were actually nfts but uh you know so then one of these creators pulled out and everyone's just [ __ ] on nfts because they were they were ultimately selling something to people that didn't want it and I'm way more interested in figuring out how to fix the retention problem like today nfts are literally a leaky bucket it's like imagine you know saying we have a leaky little Lifeboat here let's go get a million people onto this leaky Lifeboat right it's like well [ __ ] [ __ ] like let's fix the holes a little bit first uh before we try to onboard that's just like my growth brand is hey like retention is what drives the most growth and so I honestly don't think too hard about uh you know broad huge swaths of population I'm thinking like these are what people are interested in today clearly people are not satisfied with the nft experience today how can we incrementally um make that better and better and and grow concentrically with some confidence that if we keep making it better and better for our our Core group it's going to get bigger in a pretty organic way yeah it's interesting at serotonin we end up bringing some large Brands into the space we've worked with folks like PayPal folks like Sotheby's and for us what we emphasize with folks coming into this space is root ownership and providing real web 3 onboarding even if their consumers aren't familiar with web3 yet and the reason is we don't want them to lose access to their Assets in some future situation things like root ownership and decentralization feel like they don't matter until there's a problem and we just want to look ahead and prevent that problem even if customers that are coming in from the Gen pop don't already know about it but I want to ask you obviously you think the pfp trend is coming back for some projects that have found this great connection to consumers or that have these cult-like communities but what other nft use cases do you think people should look out for going into the next bull market rwa's like real world assets I think it's like even recently there was SEC there's it's interesting as we get more and more regular regular regulatory Clarity I think that people can get a lot more ambitious and start to just do the obvious things that we've been talking about for a really long time you know it's like it's probably been two cycles now that people are talking about like real estate you know on the blockchain and I think in the first wave it's like really delusional and Pie in the Sky now you're getting closer and closer like what these first kind of use cases use cases can be and I just think that that is something if you're talking about Mass adoption like very very obviously like people can understand buying fractional you know piece of land like that's a like that's a no-brainer and I think a lot of that stuff we're getting to a place where the technology has gotten so much better I mean nfts didn't wasn't really it wasn't really a thing in 2017 when there was a lot of excitement and so I think rwa's broadly uh are just going to become a pretty massive deal that's my guess yeah look I mean somewhat unpopular opinion but I think pfps are gonna be back in full force next cycle they just made happier bags you know I think that digital identity is going to be a long lasting pillar of this space our identity explored through Artistry has you know from Cape paintings to Renaissance portraits are like this has always been a thing from Aim profiles to Reddit avatars digital identity has been important now you can own your identity pfps aren't going anywhere but the nature of them may change it may be more about you know their use in gaming or avatars and things like that it may you know like that is going to shift and continue to evolve but I don't think it's going anywhere in terms of other use cases like what really excites me is like one of the reasons I know we're still early is that a lot of people still talk about nfts as though they're a category when they're really just a new medium that transcends every category and I think that as these markets mature I think as these categories mature you're going to start to see you know different areas really take on a life of their own um you know looking at the differentiation of digital art looking at you know the TV film World in Hollywood looking at uh literary nfts something very close to my heart as a poet and a writer myself thinking about how this can disrupt publishing thinking about all of these different use cases that we've only really scratched the surface on you know what I always say is that like one of the reasons why digital art and digital Collectibles drove so much mainstream attention and drove so much Market volume in this first wave was that we like we as a society very much understand the value proposition of collecting their physical counterparts right collecting physical art out of cell the bees or Christie's you know digital Collectibles being akin to physical Collectibles but like that's why when I look at like use cases like music nfts okay there's still a gap there right we went from paying uh you know 15 for a CD to 9.99 for all the music in the world there's a value disconnect there people don't necessarily understand the value of owning music right um I do because I grew up with a father who's obsessed with the Beatles you know collecting rare beetles memorabilia understanding that that rare that that vinyl that's signed by all four Beatles could also be your backstage pass could be your fan club membership could be your you know access to that that outlet for your fandom and so as these different things continue to advance I think we're going to see a differentiation between these different markets you're not gonna be able to be like oh nfts are down this week it's going to be about okay what's going on in gaming what's going on in all these different use cases and I think that that's actually a much more healthy and holistic place for this entire space to be in we're going to stop bringing all of the we're gonna bring the same consumer and creative priorities into each of these spaces and expecting each project to match them yeah and I would agree with uh your pfp narrative I also agree they'll be back in full force uh shortly here of course yeah um but I do believe that an era of the boring nfts will come and uh I think authentic uh authenticating items I think is important Logistics uh there's a lot of interesting use cases there but I will say there's a lot of that stuff that I don't know I can't speak on it because I'm not working on it and so there's probably huge Innovations coming in gaming and infrastructure and a plethora of other places but what I do know is I believe nfts a day have disrupted a 426 billion dollar market and that market is the collectible business it it today is a better collectible and so when you look at you know what it is to collect physical collecting has too much friction friction in buying and selling the friction and inauthenticity issues the friction and spoofing the friction and not knowing exactly what you're getting and how you're getting it I think Collectibles have or nfts today have solved that problem and so I think that is the thesis that I'm personally focusing on and uh ultimately that that's that's the answer to my question those are great leadership rewards and loyalty and using the blockchain as a CRM and if anyone hasn't heard of mojito which was our first spin out check out what they're doing there but I want to do one quick lightning end round would love for each of you to say where to reach you where they can look up your project and also the name of a project that's not up on stage today that you love that you think is doing it well all right I'll go there you go you go uh name of a project that I like that is not on the stage is parallel I think they're the most advanced web3 gaming I think they're the most advanced web 3 gaming today and what was the first question of that how to reach you oh follow me uh on Twitter lukanets and follow pudgy Penguins on Instagram and Twitter and Tick Tock and all the other great social medias um for me the project that I am like deeply bullish on it's Jack Butcher and everything he touches checks you know uh opepin and yeah to me like truly one of the best creators and creative people in the internet today and the fact that he's like focused so deeply on nfts again like a grateful grateful Lucas in the space grateful Jack butchers in the space um and then yeah how to reach me uh search D gods or Utes and message Kevin D gods you stole mine he stole mine I was gonna say Jack butcher but that's a good one shout out to them um you know what actually uh I'm gonna go with token proof uh they're doing an amazing job I actually see funds right upside I swear I didn't even see you there amazing um no but like here's the thing I come from music right so dance music uh you know music and media the like we were trying to figure out like nft ticketing for so long this is such a very very obvious thing that nfts are well situated and this technology is well situated do I think token is doing the best job of it right now um and so I'm I'm excited to see how that continues to evolve um and then if you want to follow along with us uh at nft now across all platforms also at now media uh we just unveiled our expansion uh you know nft now's gonna be one of our Flagship Brands we also have now Runway now ai um we got something coming for gaming real soon we'll continue to expand at the intersection of tech and culture and for me it's just at Matt Medved on everything so thank you so much and so for me it's uh amanda.eath Amanda cassette on Twitter check out serotonin at serotonin.

com and mine would be art blocks and squiggles I chose a squiggle for the front cover of my book web3 marketing if you want to check that out as well thank you so much for having us and thank you to our amazing panelists