Real World Accountability: A Candid Conversation with MANTRA’s JP Mullin - TOKEN2049 Dubai 2025

Let me begin. As the song says, guys, thank you very much. Thank you for being with us. Uh this pan this panel one-on-one with JP will be a bit different than other panels that I moderate. Uh you know, we we have little time alto together and I want to really be able to JP that you have the chance uh to speak with your with with the people in the audience today.

I'm not going to do a summary of what happened with Mantra. I assume everybody in the room knows about it. So, uh, JP, let's jump right in. Uh, to kick it off, like what what's your message first of all to the community and people attending? This is your first public appearance since this happened.

We were ironically together on stage in Paris two three weeks ago and then that weekend uh the rest is the rest is history. So, what's your message to the community and we'll take it from there. I mean, first off, I just want to say thanks for the opportunity to come here and speak about the incident and and and really about what we're doing to take this forward. So obviously everyone you know know that it was a very tough time for our community, for our investors, for our partners, for our team. It's been frankly the hardest two and a half weeks of my life.

Uh our team is tired. We're working as hard as possible to rectify the situation. And we want to use this as an opportunity to to turn the page and start a new chapter in Mantra's history. And we want to build that upon transparency, accountability, um and actually just forward looking uh how we're going to be rebuilding trust in the community and rebuilding trust in Mantra. So I think this is a really good platform and opportunity to talk about that.

We've taken some steps and we're going to continue to take more and I want to share that with everyone today. So tell us more like so how do you want to build more transparency, accountability with the community. Sure. So I mean I think one of the biggest things that we saw in the wake of you know the whole incident was there was so much misinformation that was out there right and and you know there's people saying that the team held 90% of the token supply. Um if you know you just did a very quick look on ether scan you know that the tokens been out for five years and you know 90% of the tokens were already issued on Ethereum um over the course of that history.

Um but we actually put out a transparency report on the tokconomics one week prior to the whole incident happening which kind of got glossed over and I think it's it's fundamentally important that people understand that we've been committed to transparency through the entire history of Mantra. Mantra is a 5-year-old project and we're going to continue to build for the next 5 10 15 years uh going forward. This is not our first uh rodeo. We've been down 95 967% before. Um and we're looking forward to kind of continue to build that up and and and have another comeback, frankly.

Um in the days after the initial uh incident, we published a live uh transparency dashboard that shows all the token economic holdings. It shows all the different wallets and obviously we would welcome the community to give us feedback on what other types of information that they want to see. whether that is exchange flows, whether it's uh bridging transactions, whatever you guys want to see, we're committed to, you know, providing as much accurate up-to-date information as possible. Um, and we think we've taken some steps to do so, but we're going to continue uh improving and and and building that dashboard as much as possible for you guys. So, that's all the transparency moving forward.

I know there was a lot of uh announcements that were made in the last two and a half weeks from burn on the token. I mean, anything new that the audience should know about this or Yeah. So in in the you know again in the wake of everything there was a lot of misinformation and one of those pieces of information that was going around was that for some reason they thought the team tokens or the team allocation of tokens was going to uh start you know vesting like this month. Um obviously that's completely inaccurate. It didn't even it's not even meant to start until 2027.

Um but for those who don't know you know again Mantra has been around for 5 years. We have two tokens that have been issued. One on Ethereum and the current one which is on the mainet which was launched back in October. And again, that was where a lot of the misinformation was occurring. But I actually fully vested my team token allocation from the first time around.

And in that, you know, in in in the buildup to this, you know, this next wave of mantra when we launched a blockchain, I actually completely revested all of my tokens willingly and put them into another, you know, five, sevenyear vesting period, which I had then gone out and said, I will burn all of my team tokens. And we completed that burn tok transaction yesterday where I burnt 150 million uh tokens which was roughly about $80 million uh yesterday. And and you know to be honest like I appreciate that but I feel like it's the least that I can do. Um you know for me mantra is everything in my life um other than my family and whatever we can do to reinstill that trust and faith in the community I will do it. So maybe let's talk personally.

Yeah, I mean you mentioned obviously some this was quite rough as well. I mean on a personal level like how of course this was quite difficult like did it get any kind of dangerous like hate violence? I'm sure you got a lot of threats and uh yeah I mean Twitter is crazy. Um, Telegram is crazy. You know, this is not I've had lots of crazy messages and, you know, death threats and whatever, but that's like that's part of crypto to be honest.

And I think if you go out there and launch a token, you should be, you know, understanding that that's part of the game. It's not the first time I've gotten it and it won't be the last time. And, you know, I think it's important for us and for me to really show that, you know, the token holders, I feel it's my fiduciary responsibility to do what's right for them and we will take whatever steps are necessary. And you know that means that sometimes you're going to have to face a little bit of perceived danger. I've never felt like I was um in any physical danger I guess.

But uh I guess you know it is a possibility but you know at the end of the day we we're committed to doing what's right and we're committed to rebuilding the trust in the community here. So if that means facing the music and facing the noise a little bit then so be it. I just want to bring it back to the events that happened. I mean obviously uh people using OM as collateral on the various exchanges. Yeah, if you had a message to other founders in the room and obviously what happened to you guys.

Sure. What's if there's a lesson on that particular element that you think people should know about? You know, unfortunately it is just a fact that this could happen to any project in the industry. And you know, anyone who has the ability to go buy tokens on on on dexes, sexes, whatever, they can go do so with their money. And if there's products available that they can use leverage within the terms and conditions of the various platforms, they can do so.

So, you know, unfortunately, this happened to us in a in a time when, you know, where there was, you know, crazy liquidations that happened on a weekend um that ended up really having this drastic uh price decrease. Um, but frankly speaking, I think as an industry, we need to, you know, continue to try to improve and mature and hold ourselves to a higher standard. So, we're committed to working with our exchange partners. Uh, we're committed to working with various regulators and generally the broader industry to try to make this safer for our market participants. You know, you can even say like in the trady world they have circuit breakers so these things don't happen.

I'm not suggesting that. That's an industrywide conversation. Um but I think these conversations need to be need to be had about what can we do to make sure that these type of incidents and events don't you know happen again because in the end of the day um no one's benefiting from this. Yeah. Nobody benefiting and I know you guys published a kind of analysis on the events.

Should people expect another report or analysis or investigation on from your side on what happened on on that weekend or no? Well, I think we put out as factually accurate of a statement as we could based off the information that we know and there's still information that we don't know about, you know, who actually uh started this, you know, price action. Um where did the money actually go? Who profited from this? These are all questions that remain unanswered.

And we hope that with you know different industry participants coming to the table um engaging in a conversation which we've been working on we'll be able to find these answers but you know frankly speaking it's not something that we we know or you know have access to that information as of today. The the other the other thing to think about JP is obviously from a business perspective right if there's anybody wants to build let's say on RWA perspective they have a choice between different chains right and one of them is they look at maltra there's obviously now a lot of noise there's a lot of uh obviously when everything happened how do you want to overcome this how do you want to go to these projects and say hey come and build a mantra despite everything going on because we believe it's xyz this is better or you think the dust needs to settle that's there's an inherent element of time I mean the dust does need to settle Right. Um that being said, mantra is open for business. Um and as much as humanly possible, you know, I've talked with our team and our partners um that you know they need to continue doing business as usual. You know, even just this week uh we launch or we had an RWA accelerator that we were launching with Google Cloud or that we were running with Google Cloud and there was talks about should we stop it, should we not have them come to Dubai and we had seven or eight projects come to Dubai and started building um just this week.

So business as usual needs to needs to continue. Um we're going to continue working with our existing partners. U honestly we've had new partners who've come in in the wake and we're looking forward to announcing some really uh exciting stuff with them in the coming weeks as well. Um it's been honestly uh humbling but you know very I feel very blessed that we've had people who've come to the table and and said we're going to double down on mantra. We're going to double down on the team.

And even people who hadn't even started working for us yet you know obviously this could be rattling for them. and we've had even we haven't had anyone who said, "Hey, I want to I want to go away. I want to continue working and and building with you guys." So, that's been really really re re really really reassuring and um I think that just goes to show the strength of, you know, our team and and our community and our investors. Um you know, Mantra is still here and we're going to continue building.

You know, I mean, JP, I think both of you and I, we've been in the crypto space for many years and we've seen many tokens over the years have up booms, bust, some of them have disappeared, some made comebacks. In your in your case, what I think is very different, you guys were regulated. Yep. So, how did that and we're all in Dubai actually and you guys borrow a license here in Dubai. How did that interaction happen?

You mentioned partners before, but how did it go with a regulator and how did that play a role in this whole uh event series of events? You know, I mean, I feel we we feel very, you know, fortunate that we were the first DeFi license recipient from VAR earlier this year. And you know, we were on stage in Paris, you know, right before this happened, um, talking with with with with the regular and with Matt um, about about the special licensing and what we're going to do with it. And, um, you know, obviously that that means that we have a spec a special responsibility to transparency um, to to a commitment to do things the right way. And it was one of the very first calls that we had when the incident was going down.

So, we've maintained an open dialogue and we'll continue to maintain an open dialogue with regulators um and and and anyone who has questions about what's going on because we feel like there's nothing for us to hide. Uh the team, the the project, our investors did nothing wrong and we're going to continue to, you know, build going forward and and you know, again, understand that this was a traumatic event for our community and a traumatic event for a lot of people. But, um the only way we can make this better is by continuing to push forward and and that's what we're going to do. And what's been the impact on the team? because obviously people are tokens.

This is obviously people have lost a lot of value. Yeah. How do you intend a CEO to continue motivating your team despite everything that happened? You know, sometimes um when you're at war, you see who wants to be fighting in the trenches with you. And you know, fortunately um we feel like we're in a war time right now.

Um you know, I feel like that's when I'm at my best to be completely honest. Um and you know, it's been amazing to see the hard work that the team's been putting in. uh the doubling down on commitment and not flinching at all to be honest. And you know that doesn't mean that this is a time for everyone, right? You know, we're in the trenches right now.

This is not going to be easy. It's going to be a long fight. Uh but myself, uh the senior leaders of the team, our investors, our our major partners are all committed to continue to push forward. And I think when you show that and you do it and it's not just talking, honestly, this is really the last time I want to be talking about this. I just want to go build and I just want to go deliver on what I'm saying to you guys.

And you know hopefully when we come back here in Singapore we can do this again and you'll see the actions uh speak a lot louder than words. So for you today is like a time you want to turn the page. You want to put this behind this is like the post uh fight with your girlfriend and you're like hey this is uh we put we we can put things behind us basically. Yeah pretty much. I mean this is this needs to be the next leaf for us and in in the next you know chapter in our book.

It's been a five-year book and uh I do feel like I've said this before this incident like we feel like we're just getting started. This was a big bump in the road. Um, and it's not going to be easy, but you know, I feel like we have uh I have more conviction in what we're doing than ever. I have more resolve in in the team and the supporters. Um, you know, you see who's with you when uh when times like this happen and you also see who's who's not.

And I think it's important for us to look at the silver linings in this situation. You know who your friends and you definitely know who your enemies are. Um, and you know who the people who are pretending to be your friends, right? Were you surprised of that? like seeing who your friends are, your enemies are.

collected. Not really. Uh I think it it you know it goes to show who wants to stick by you when it's really easy and good and it shows who wants to stick by you when it's tough and honestly there weren't that many surprises. But you know JP if we go in the audience today and people in the room and to tell them hey the mantra and JP and everything happened. I'm sure there's a lot of people in the room and say ah no it was a rockpool.

It was a team. So what's your message to them? Like I and I know I know some of the podcasts and even you came on my CNBC show as well talk about it but what's your message to the audience especially if today's the day you guys want to put this behind those folks who believe this was a rug pull this was an internal uh piece of I mean the the great thing about blockchain is the chain doesn't lie right so let's go look at the facts and let's go look on the chain and and and see what actually happened and and we can see in this instance that you know the the the project's tokens the team's tokens are either locked or you know haven't moved and again we feel very strongly that you know the value that we're going to be creating in the future um will will make up for this situation and then some only if we double down on building only if we double down on shipping and we double down on our thesis that bringing finance on chain is what's going to change the world. So for us um that commitment and and and honestly not running and hiding from anything is is is important. Uh that's why we're here today and that's why we're not going anywhere.

So um I by the way we welcome as much feedback as possible. So, if you guys have ideas, if you guys have questions, if you guys have thoughts, please come talk to us. Please come talk to, you know, myself. I'm pretty active on Twitter. You can find me on Telegram.

I, you know, I answer DMs all the time. Um, and, you know, we're here to to to put this behind us and keep building, like I said. You know, it's it's interesting when uh obviously when the incident happened, you went public pretty quickly, went on podcast. Same thing we saw with Bybit, with Ben, went public very quickly on it. Was that your decision or your team or how did you decide to go and come out very quickly?

the from my perspective there's the only thing you could do right like there wasn't even a thought that this was something we should not be going out and facing headon um and I do feel that because of that quick action because of getting on you know god knows how many podcasts and videos and you know coffeezilla and all these you know in you know interviews that were trying to skewer me to be completely honest um that helped you know at least show that the team is not running from this and we're going to continue building so that at least started to get that question out of some people's minds, right? We still have a lot of work to do. We're fully committed to do that and we're going to do it as long as it takes. Um, so there was no other option in my mind that you just have to deal with the situation. It's a shitty, horrendous situation for everyone, but we're committed to moving forward and we appreciate anyone who's going to support us in that journey.

And you know, the the other element on this aspect, you mentioned you want to create transparency, accountability, you know, when I look at it, not to be a bit, you know, skeptic on it, but obviously you're creating all the transparency reports and everything. A lot of information is on chain but here you can argue the cause of the problem was nothing to do with transparency. It was actually how the token was being used as collateral on the exchanges and true a trading element and how much was in free float then actually as much transparency you provide this would have not even probably solved the issue. I I agree with that. I mean I guess it's important for us to again focus on transparency which will instill trust you know continue shipping and delivering which will build substance or continue building substance.

And actually one of the things that people didn't even know is we launched our you know EVM test net. So we launched we have a Cosmos SDK chain with Cosmos but we launched our EVM test net a few weeks ago. We just haven't even talked about it yet. So we're going to continue to build on top of that. Uh the techn the chain didn't you know go go down at all during this incident.

Um so there's some technical resilience that was built up. Um and in the end of the day we need to commit to diversifying our holder base as much as humanly possible and that's only going to come through building and shipping real products that people use. So for us that's an important thing and again this could happen to any project and we hope it never happens again frankly. Um if it if we had to be the guinea pig for this horrendous innocent to happen so be it. But let's work towards as an industry to make sure that this doesn't happen again.

Full stop. And that's the way you're looking at it right. I mean from your perspective you see this like it could have happened to other tokens as well. It's a bit like when got hacked anybody could have got hacked or uh USC got deped. It was the bank.

It was not the the circle's fault. In your case the way you look at it this is just the way it was designed. It's an unfortunate reality of of the situation that you know there's excess amounts of leverage that was able to be taken or significant amounts of leverage maybe not excess significant amounts of leverage that was able to be taken and you know liquidations occurred in a way that that caused this you know this harmful action but if you look at many if not all of the really major projects that we've seen out there Bitcoin Ethereum Salana they've all had significant ups and significant downs so we do see this as our Salana at $8 moment and we're going to do everything we can uh to bring it back. So let's say JP together we're together at Token249 in Singapore in a couple months. I hope so.

Where do you want Mantra to be by then? It's a good question. I mean I want everyone to see that we did what we said we're going to do on stage today, right? We committed to being transparent and we've done everything we can to show what we're doing and to give everyone as much of a clear picture about the business, the project, the tokconomics, the governance. um we want to have new uh inputs on governance.

So we're going to be adding you know actually we're going to be further decentralizing the network. We're going to be decommissioning a bunch of the foundation nodes and and expanding the network significantly during this period of time. Um we're going to be bringing on new uh external council and board members uh during this period of time. So we're committed to governance. We're committed to shipping and you know token price aside we're heads down building and I I hope you guys will see that.

Actually I know you guys will see that. Brother JP, I really appreciate you took the time to come in. And I mean I know you you you had the choice of not doing it. I'm happy you came to do this and I'm happy you were able to uh share with with our audience today. Uh thank you very much JP.

That was JP Mullen from Aantra. Thank you very much everybody. Yeah.