The Mainstream Mission: Bringing Crypto to the Masses - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2024

great uh we you guys have really lucky to have really the best MC in the market today with Mr work on guys very very excited to be with you all today we're going to have a lot of fun over the next couple of minutes to really talk about how we're going to bring crypto to the masses uh I cannot promise we're going to answer all the questions today but I promise you it's going to be interesting insightful and hopefully uh very uh educational as well and we I'm very lucky today we really uh with the dream team of folks to talk about the topic today I'm of course Michael shov many of you know him as a CEO and co-founder of fireblocks for those who don't know it's an Enterprise platform to manage digital assets operations and build Innovative businesses on the blockchain fun fact about fire blocks by the way they have over 2,000 institutional clients they've secured a transfer of over 6 trillion in digital assets and created over 200 million wallets uh fun fact by the way about Michael one is's not the co of fire blocks he's an avid snowboarder and a massive fan of H snowboarding so here we go uh talk about the BCP risk uh there Michael huh uh but very excited to have you on board with us then we have Mike sagad uh from rrii um Mike is the uh the first eat sticking protocol that allows stakers to maintain full control of their keys to the entire staking process making it the only truly decentralized liquid staking platform we're going to cover a lot of topics around that uh fun fact about Mike by the way he's a pilot in a spare time he flies a a Cyrus plane which is here you go good way of having it on board and last but not least uh of course we have Raj Raj brat from zebu uh and the decentralized liquidity protocol that has crossed $4 billion in invoice settlements transforming institutional payments and settlements when one fun fact about Raj have to say as an Armenian I love that he's a massive chess player so look at competitive chess he's the guy to play with there Raj great to have you on board with us today so today what I want to do I want to cover various topics that we're going to go to bring crypto to the masses and I'm going going to cover them one by one and when I name it first I want you guys to give me a a probability from 1 to 10 10 being that could be the killer app that we're going to hit the billion users and then we'll discuss to each one of them one by one let's start Michel I'm going to start with you first of all on tokenization it's a big topic R rwa there's obviously a lot of activity at the conference uh about tokenization rwa before that 1 to 10 what's the chance tokenization becomes the killer app that we have uh easy 9.2 9.2 W very detailed uh six six okay Michael nine nine so what is that what do you think uh we have a big chance with that being the killer app look I think that the first of all the infrastructure for uh Financial products as we know the the traditional infrastructure is outdated it's not compatible with the internet uh it's expensive and uh basically operating it on the blockchain by tokenizing first of all traditional Financial assets and the more so some of the newer assets like nfts points uh creating new experiences I think that there is a high probability that and also like a very high conviction by the way from most practitioners that this is going to happen I think it actually plays well together with some of the other topics we're going to talk about today but I think the conviction and basically like kind like the Delta between uh and the 10x sort of experience that we're going to get by from you know cost speed uh accessibility distribution and so on from this I think it really makes a good case for tokenization to become one Michael we've been wrong right I remember myself even going on TV 18 2019 saying it's the year of security tokens of tokenization you know often we had a problem with the the issuers and the demand why you think now it's different onization yeah I think I think look I think let's take a I think one of the assets that they're really picking up which is Money Market funds right and treasuries yeah treasuries basically and uh it basically went from zero literally almost zero to uh $2 billion from the beginning of the year and I think like you know from my perspective when I look back and I think there was a there was a conviction back in 2018 that it's going to happen but I would say that the biggest thing was do we have the quality assets right and what we are seeing right now is that the uh most reputable asset managers like Black Rock and wisdom tree and all those guys are stepping in and creating those assets so clearly we have reputable assets coming in and that sort of like you know starts really a to create the ecosystem and B we actually have use cases so we're going to take talk about stable coins we're probably going to about a bit about trading so think about the combination of stable coins how do you generate yield through treasuries clearly talk uh money market funds and other assets it makes the case so I'm not arguing that it's going to it's going to be nine in the next 12 months but I think that the direction of travel over the next 5 years especially as the regulation will catch up is pretty strong I want to talk to you guys about Mike about def but why is six by the way why you not that bullish quickly uh well I don't disagree with anything that that Michael was saying just less bullish yeah well I think maybe it is a Time Horizon thing like is that going to be the thing that uh uh you know in the next six months brings a billion users on chain I you know I I just have a hard time seeing that okay so let's talk about Define now talk about chain I remember really at the beginning of covid we had less than a billion in tvl in Defi and now obviously we're at pretty uh multiple times that amount defi could D5 be the where we bring the mil the the crypto to the masses 11 10 uh i' say eight and a half eight and a half you're very detailed on your predictions the Michael I'll take the six six here go Mike uh that's a I I probably would also say a six oh really interesting so what is that what do you think uh well I think well first of all defi is not usable right like if if you think about going from zero to doing even the first most basic transaction as a normal human being figuring out you know a hardware wallet or a browser extension seed phrases signing approval the whole thing is insane I mean it's completely insane I multiple times a week I'll have to spend hours with friends trying to explain to them how to you know borrow some Stables on on a and it's always an ordeal and I I I think to some degree that's always going to be the case because it's like it's a pretty in-depth process so defy in and of itself I don't think is going to bring you know a billion users to crypto but uh some sort of rapper that you know perhaps a company likey is building um might but defi in it of itself I think is way too uh too nerdy IND are coming to usei they're not having the same issues because they they have you to have a good UI and actually not have these issues basically well that's that's our goal yeah I mean ethery is a suite vertically integrated Suite of products that allows users to interact with dii but in sort of a bubble wrapped easy way while still getting all the benefits of sensorship resistance non-custodial you know uh like all the good stuff that you get with the uh with crypto so that to us that includes staking deploying Assets in Defi and spending with their new ethery cash product in real life I ask you after staking as well Michael why are you six by the way on that one you're still uh you think not the time horizon or no I I I was actually I same because of the same reasons right I think that the user experience of thei at the moment is fairly complex uh and I think that like at the end of the day defi becomes extremely useful when it uh be applied to the nines right but also right now most of the utility of defi is really around trading like core crypto pairs or you know other things that are inherently somewhat speculative and I think that just generally speaking to take to assume that speculative activity overall is going to be what will take us to like the ninth is I like I'm not in that camp interesting third one this is something we stalked for many many years in crypto blockchain has infrastructural for real worlded use cases right from reducing cost to enhancing Services 1 to 10 actually let me start with Michael and then we'll come to you Michael 1 to 10 blockchain for real use cases as an infrastructure uh 10 Wow Mike uh man this is you're put you're putting so much pressure uh I don't know seven seven 10 10 well I guess uh that's why really like why 10 m i mean I think it's the two topics that we covered so far right actually three so um real world app assets Defi and then you know abstracting users away from complexity um that's essentially what we're trying to do uh at zebu we're natively aggregating multiple sets of services um where you know web 2 users that have real problems that can be solved using blockchain infrastructure um you know come to zebu to be onboarded and get access to all of these Services simply to solve their problem right um do they want to download a metamask wallet to do payments no um do they want to pay a19 for a dollar of usdt um out of India or Ethiopia no right so blockchain as an infrastructure is very important in order to do settlements um tokenizing illiquid assets um and you know increasing accessibility cross borders but you know user abstraction and integrated Services is the main solution to it but when you're selling to web to firms I mean often for it to to interact with new technology it needs to be materially better right if it's just good enough the career risk for people making decisions at a Telco for example is not worth it often right and that's often back in the day we you think Bitcoin is going to solve all the problems right and of course you didn't how are you how are you overcoming that when you're pitching services like zeu for example right absolutely so I mean think about wholesale Voice SMS and data providers right their average margin on uh any transaction is 5 to 6% their settlement cost on average comes out to 3.5 to 4% wow rendering the entire transaction you know nearly useless so at zebu we essentially bring that cost basis down to 1% by setting up local liquidity pairs with zbu and local currencies we aggregate you know KY and multiple sets of solutions within the zebu platform fire blocks is actually a major partner of us in order to enable these services and uh we always ensure that counterparty settlement is in US dollar right um because on-ramps for US dollar are very very expensive but off-ramps are actually profitable in jurisdiction correct interesting okay it's interesting you're a 10 as well Michael on this one let me let me go to the other one better this is a topic we used to discuss again a couple years ago better custody and Security Solutions do you think if we have better custody Security Solutions we'll hit crypto the masses what do you think from 1 to 10 um 8.2 8.

2 man love the tension uh it's a prerequisite I guess uh yeah I don't know eight Michael yeah it's a prere was it so I'm not sure it's kind of like how do you exactly map it but you know nine obviously you're in the business right of offering custody Tech and security like to what extent you because it's been over a billion dollars in hack this year alone for example so let me let me kind of rephrase the situation I don't think Security in no situation is basically why people use the technology but lack of security is a situation in which people stop using a technology right so I'll give a you know in my previous live I was like basically dealing with mobile security and Cloud security and so on right if our mobile devices will get hacked every second day right if uh your uh cloud services AWS and so on will be compromised then no one would use it right and by the way you go decade and a half back right basically a lot of the arguments so why it took some time for people to adop and Trust like AWS was because people didn't trust security right so the point is that like I think we still have a gap in terms of uh how people um leverage wallets and custody technology custody and so on um in many cases like you know it's being done in a you know through tools that are built in-house they don't go through the right Audits and they're not being configured properly right and then people lose money people who trust people leave the ecosystem right no one who lost $1,000 $ 5,000 you know $1 million because of a the is going to continue and Trust the system yeah it's interesting you know especially I get a lot of people that get scammed nothing to do with the technology right from the pig butchering to the fake websites and stuff like that right so uh okay another one you mentioned a gap Michael it's very interesting right that Gap that can actually cause an issue I'm going bring it to you Raj you know like what about like web 2.5 right like where we have web point2 that is centralized by the big uh big Tech players and we have web 3 which is obviously prist let's say web 2.5 where we using AI VR or actually maybe we have better control on our data for example right to what extent do you think that could be the how we bring crypto to the masses let me start with you Michael 1 to 10 web 2.5 um I think it's 10 right it's basically like the stepping stone here uh two two oh W I want to come back to that 10 10 so what what do you think that could be the killer app I mean I I look at web 2.5 as a bridge of bringing web 2 users to web 3 right and and people have short attention spans most people that don't have a direct significance to a product won't try to use it unless um it's super super easy to do it right so that's how I look at web 2.

5 is kind of purposefully build products services and solutions that cater to real world uh real world needs and um today most web three solutions are built for web three people right um I think we're we're kind of trading services and solutions amongst ourselves and there isn't much built to bring others on board so uh that's actually what Zeus's also focus on is you know these Telecom institutions that weren't otherwise ever going to look at web 3 as a whole we're bringing them on board because we're solving a key problem for them and we're making it very very easy to do so yeah the E of VI I think it's absolutely key if people canot use it Mike why you think why is it two why you're so negative uh well I'm here's the particular sense in which I think it's uh it's a two uh different ways to look at it obviously I think cdy as as a category if we think of that as uh you know Web Web 2.0 in many ways actually ends up undermining crypto adoption if you look at some of the most popular cases of quote unquote crypto users where they interact through you know some centralized platform the behavior that those users are engaging in in most cases you know gambling speculation has nothing to do with crypto right like they're let's say they're trading tokens on some exchange you could jumble the letters you know of the tokens it doesn't matter it has nothing to do with crypto they're just clicking a button on a screen and gambling and that usurps the actual concept of like what crypto was supposed to be about you know stateless currency you know Unstoppable money uh and turns it into basically a giant casino with crypto being you know this irrelevant sort of uh window dressing uh so I think you you know you almost have to make a hard stance and say look it it actually has to be crypto you actually have to have self- custody you actually have to be able to uh uh have censorship resistance if you don't have that then like what's the point why are we doing all this just run it all on one giant database and call it a day but I would argue Mike in that says we're losing a lot of people like my my lovely mom barely can use a centralized exchange and let alone but she shouldn't have to care she should just be able to use an app and it's beautiful and it's simple but no one can steal her money but but you don't call it I think this is like you know web 2. five you know what you describing well okay maybe we're we're talking nomenclature I'm talking about something where it's basically a centralized uh product but you know it's called crypto okay I own crypto through an ETF like do you own crypto no you own a ticker in you that's not but yeah I don't think that's how we Define the web 2.5 I think this is actually like for me web 2.5 is exactly what you define it's kind of like web two at the front web three at the back right and it's so and the ux is obstructed so well that you don't know that it's self- custody right you don't know that you're basically now uh using uh uh stable coin to pay someone you don't know that but that's actually what's happening behind the scenes right and I think that you know sorry for steing that but but you know like what telegram is doing with some of the things that they are just like embedding it there are additional players that that are kind of looking at it so I think this is kind of interesting yeah if if it's you know if we're talking semantics and you know we agreed that web 2.

5 means self custody then sure I'll upgrade I'll upgrade to a nine I mean okay good see I moved do and can my mom start using it that's a quick question you know I mean at a design level it's essentially just being self-aware that you know how familiar you are with a lot of these processes and um actions most people might not be right you you essentially have to put yourself in the shoes of other users potential web 2 users who have never interacted with these products in the past um I think that would be the key solution okay next one this is another one we discussed over the years regulations is having regulatory Clarity going to bring crypto the masses Michael from 1 to 10 seven okay Mike prerequisite yeah I don't know eight nine 7.5 I love that you Michael what you think what's your view on that like first of all my uh head of regulatory sitting here in the front it's a 10 it's very important don't worry very relevant um no but look I I think that the I agree I think this is like you know mostly a prerequisite right I think that what's happening right now is that in a in countries where we have regulatory Clarity right like over here uh you know UAE Japan Australia so on right soon you know basically through Europe we basically starting seeing the adoption right and basically people like companies can Thrive investment can be made ER and things are moving forward uh where I live in the United States right I think that right now we are basically seeing the opposite right I mean no one can basically do anything and more so I think the main issue right now with the US and I think a lot of people underappreciate is how entangled basically the regulatory landscape is and how massive influence the US has on all the downstream players so hopefully we'll have the election you know uh and maybe like you know we'll see who wins right but uh we should all be hopeful that uh things will improve let's see I think it's a big Catalyst in the markets as well you know yeah let's see what happens on that one another one this is an interesting one as well on um banking right you know before we before ETF came we're like oh when the ETF comes everybody will be able to have access to bitcoin it's been obviously very successful right like a 20 billion assets most successful ETF ever in history what about banking if banking uh Banks become more Pro crypto and I want to ask you Mike about Neo banking but let's say banking if banks are more proc crypto what's your view r 1 to 10 could that be killer app no I would say like six six Mike uh I'm going to say if we replace banks with crypto then it's a 10 I'm coming back to that Michael I think like five interesting Mike what what do you think what's your view I'm G come back to you Micha what we need uh what we need Are banks that are crypto native right now we've got I mean we all know we have this fractional Reserve System with endless red tape regulation uh and so you've got a small number of incumbents that are you know pretty awful um so what what needs to happen are crypto native Banks where you don't need traditional Banks you can just operate on crypto rails natively and uh that uh I mean That's essential for bringing crypto to the masses without that you always have this bridge to defy and the analogy i' like to use is when you mix and ice cream you don't have ice cream anymore it doesn't matter you know the balance of the two so uh until we have crypto native payment rails uh you know that's there there it's just not going to work but if we have the case how would you think the will react like the traditional banking system will react you think we'll have the Neo banking system and banking like how would that happen like in crypto you can argue crypto the way centralized crypto we have in defi there's a you know there's a kind of harmonious relation ship pish you know but do you think with newo banks and traditional Banks they could even coate I think it's going to be unstoppable I think in the same way that it was much easier to regulate a printing press with magazines and newspapers you know censorship was a lot easier and then internet was Unstoppable I mean you just you could try to regulate it but it just uh it was a completely different uh system so I think in the same way when the crypto payment system uh evolves and becomes sufficiently mature it'll just be unstoppable and it'll emerge probably in jurisdictions that are more friendly I guess maybe here maybe in UAE yeah and others um and then it'll just it'll make its way and it'll just be it'll just become part of the system interesting mik Michael why do you think it's five yeah I mean look I think first of all and I'll uh you know I kind of like set the stage we have about like 60 70 banks that are clients right so a bit like you know pitching against the and you don't refer them as of course no no no I didn't anything uh but I mean first of all look how far have we came without the banks being involved right and second of all I very much agree with Mike that like the the and I was making this argument uh quite often and I was making this argument also quite often to the senior banking execs right that the people that actually like eating their their lunch is like revolute and Robin Hood and new bank and pretty much in every territory you know when I travel I don't use City and I don't use Chase which are like the banks where I have my Fiat I use revolute and I use revolute every day right and I use revolute crypto and I basically do everything within so it's still kind of like you know the CI but they they're giving me the experience right that H I want right and and and they just like you know they they so digitally native right that I think for them to be the bridge into this technology is pretty clear how Chase and c and you know go Downstream to like you know a lot of the other Banks which they have even more outdated infrastructure will be able to create something that is a native experience that gives you so I think you know what might might actually happen at some point that they will be kind of the gateway drug right basically they will expose something which is kind of like semi crypto but like you know really crappy experience right and then we will have a lot of people that will say wow this is like amazing who is actually the best in doing this and then people will basically start moving into the Neo Banks into like you know the crypto native players that's I think what is more likely to happen here it it will take time but I think this is a yeah it's interesting I still believe the the banking system now is one of the biggest risk we have in the crypto space if you think in even us correspondent Banks as we banks are doing it we have issues and you know I don't know Mike you know we talk about Banks allowing it think about narrow banking where people have tried to have narrow Banks where there's no lending there's no money create that was banned you know like there so there's a lot of U interest that that's not that's not in their uh in their well the power of defi is that once you've got those rails it's just it's just code right I mean you can just you can layer on any number of services you can launch new products the whole thing is uh composable yeah smart contracts in a way inherently are narrow banking if you want another one uh stable coins if you look at really that the volume of transaction we've had on stable coins I think we're over 140 150 billion in Assets Now can stable coins be the killer app that brings us to the masses Michael I'll start with you 15 15 oh my God here we go Mike man uh 10 10 9.5 I what so what do you think on the stable coins why accessibility um accessibility is really hard in most markets for stable coins right um you know at the end of the day the only stable coins that I see working for the most part are dollar back stable coins Y and uh in which case procurement cost of dollar in most markets is really really high Forex conver conversion fees are really really high and uh you know you look at India as a market today right you try to go out there buy one usdt you have to pay a19 $111 so boom I'm not sure if it's the direct activation to bring on web 2 users yet um unless there's a lot of products built around it to abstract them away from that cost and uh complexity of procurement Michael y5 uh it's happening I mean that's what what's happening we've seen we from the beginning of the year we've seen like 800% increase and we actually able to track it quite well because we have a the payment engine which is kind of like an application that allows you know folks like Raj to automate some of those uh things and it it just happening across all those corridors in an organic way you see hundreds of companies I think we onboarded 150 Crypt native PSPs that are taking advantage across it's just massive yeah and that's again and maybe like I'll give my personal example right right we invoice people in dollars as a service provider 50% of our clients are basically paying us in stable coins interesting and the story of how it started was back in 2019 that we had a client that wanted to pay us like $30,000 and he asked if he can pay with a credit card and I told my uh sales lady back then I thought like we are not going to pay stripe $1,000 commission they sent us like they sent us the $30,000 using usdp it took one second second to basically confirm and back in the day the Fe were low so like it was like 30 cents right it's like 1,000 times better yeah yeah it's incredible really the especially in I mean talk about you talk about payments but Emerging Markets you I can tell it being based in Dubai I see what's happening in countries like turkey Africa absolutely incredible uh on it uh on that perspective controversial one now the next one cbdc is talking about stable coins oh wow could cbdcs ironically be the killer app what do you think uh three three 10 negative 10 uh I I'll second him on that one negative 10 yeah so it's not going to happen obviously but you don't think it could be counter effect where actually push people more to crypto being able to hold your keys and don't surv no it's like it's a package deal it's like it actually ruins it's like the way they redefine inflation as like Rising prices expansion on the money supply it's like it actually breaks your brain no so yeah and also like I mean we spent like you know with some time with central banks I think like you know there's still qu like theoretical questions around cbdc that are very much unsolved like you know wholesale BDC retail cbdc it's also very cultural uh question in terms like you know which kind like in the United States there is no chance you will have for example retail cbdc because people will see this like in in in uh that you invade their privacy yeah but in a way we could have certain countries I think about China big parts of the Middle East India where you know this could work and others so I don't know how that's going to happen but let's see yeah let's see another one this is interesting one I love to get reviews more crypto education do you think that could be a way to bring to the masses what do you think 10 10 uh yeah nine 10 pretty much yeah consensus there like it's uh H okay interesting another one here more more VC Capital more investment in crypto it's controversial why what do you think negative 10 Mike which VCS there's a there's a big uh depends who uh depends who it is could be negative 10 could be positive 10 um I would say like five five yeah so what do you guys think why Mike why are you so negative on the VC I know I know there's a big spread right and and everybody in their mom is a VC now but like uh well I mean look I come from my past life was B2B SAS Y and I was spoiled you know like the investors that we we spoke with the the you know the partners the associates the behavior that was expected was such a high level of professionalism ethics you know they wouldn't invest in competing products they would you know there was you know Chinese firewalls be all kinds of like stuff where you just you're like oh man this is professional it's well done and then you come to crypto and you see a bunch of like lunatics uh very wide range some are you know operate perhaps at you know roughly those standards and others are predatory you know awful people uh and it's it's a real mixed bag so if there's if there's more of the good ones for sure huge huge help you know will drive the ecosystem if if you know it keeps trending the other way then uh it's it'll be bad so no offense to all the VCS in the room by the way we still love you they they're living by the way none of the VCS disagree with me either even even the bad ones are like yeah you know that's that's the game Michael why you're minus 15 no say why by St but uh no look I I think it's it's sort of like you know align with what Mike said and maybe I I was a bit harush on this but the I think there is like some inherent issue in crypto because of H specifically because of the token model right that as a VC you can do what you like call like liquid investment right but basically you are der you're able to Der risk very quickly and a very speculative way right so you're not required to take a long-term view on the project that you're are back like in equity Investments that you are not you know that like you know you make an investment you need to basically have a very strong thesis why this thing is going to be valuable in 6 eight years or at least like you know there is some path to viability of that and I think H what what actually happens is that we are seeing a lot of the money being thrown across a lot of different projects a lot of time like very competing projects and ER and that actually like basically creates misalignment of talent right I think that what what this industry really needs right is concentration on of Talent on like really quality projects and basically projects that are aligned with what we are discussing here on the on the panel and the fact that you have so much money going around especially related to Quick exits right it incentivize people to go after the quick buck and rather like you know I think that let me just be very I know like controversial right I think that like a lot of the people that were working on l1s it might be it might have been much better if they would basically be part of the ethereum core and we would just have a much better ethereum yeah you think you think we have too many l1s what you think we have too many l1s l2s well you need to you can go to coin market cap and uh make up your mind yeah when the product is the token not the product you have a problem yeah even i' say coming to events like these where you see a lot of uh let's say new ideas coming in very similar to what you guys discussed makes you reflect on that perspective guys as we wrapping up the pel so my best friend My Belle is with me here again this year so I'm going to ask you guys quick questions and I need one or two Word answers okay and the Belle is here to keep us honest on that perspective you ready yep Raj I'm starting with you you're here in Singapore this week what's your favorite thing about Singapore um I'd say people people what a good politically uh diplomatic and answer Mike uh I I love the Garden City thing that's that's awesome here we go Michael favorite thing about Singapore the weather weather here we go second one uh interesting one what do you think we talk a lot of positive things today about how we bring to the masses what do you think is the biggest risk that we face as an ecosystem for it not to bring crypto to the masses Michael start with you um I think counterparty risk interesting W in in what in trading perspective in all the perspective we talked about you know from custodial to self custodial in trading I mean that's what basically took us out of the business two years ago right I think it still exists Mike what's your what's our biggest risk we we facing gambling gambling really why is that yeah cuz it's the biggest problem with crypto is we have these giant casinos in the sky that rain money and it crowds out all the real and everything gets replaced with gambling and that's why I mean we're 15 years in and we're still not even using crypto for payments the first thing like even that problem hasn't been solved yet and it's cuz just the the gambling money is just flooding in and washing everything else out but a certain token is going to the moon and it's a Lambo you know R well we are using crypto for payments but there you go um I would say lack or lack of userfriendly products lack of user friendly wow interesting yeah interesting okay I'm going to start with youaj if you're not in the crypto industry what industry would you be in that's a good question that's why I'm asking it probably private Equity private Equity interesting that's pretty web too Mike it be to be SAS SAS like your old business here we go Michael if you're not in crypto what industry would you be in guess like I think Clint Tech clean tech yeah interesting um this is a tricky one if you could hold one token or crypto for the next 10 years not touch it what would you buy Michael Bitcoin Bitcoin here we go ethereum ethereum oo well I can't sh my own so ethereum okay if you go back if you could go back in history to live in any period any period in history which period would you want to go live in 1500s 1500s 1500s why interesting why is that um you know the Renaissance a lot of great Kingdoms at the time yeah you know a lot of the history was built up very exciting period you're right Mike uh I think 1980s America why is that it's just that I feel like that that was the peak it was Peak Americana there was like a shared enemy Russia you know there they're like there was like a sense of patri very different now buty that's different story Arnold Sylvester it was just it was you know that's Michael I would agree with him I the America talking about Americana go ah go no because because I was like actually Russia that time here we go Michael uh you mentioned Americana you mentioned you elections the new US president in November gives you a call makes you a crypto advisor what's the first thing you tell him to do I'll start with you Michael stable coin Bill stable coin bill here we go Mike it shut down the SEC shut down the Raj uh stable Bill coin bill yeah very uh interesting on that side if you could have launch sorry if you could launch a new crypto startup not the one you have a new crypto startup and you can choose any existing crypto CEO or entrepreneur who would you choose as your co-founder Raj you launch a new crypto business you can choose any crypto Co entrepreneur who you choose as your co-founder metallic metallic mataran here you go I heard he can sing now as well which is uh interesting Mike uh Stanny Stan a okay here we go of course Michael um Raj here we go man a new company being formed here on the ground another interesting one I'm start with you Michael uh Elon Musk gives you a call and ask you for one piece of advice on how to make X Twitter better what do you tell him wow [Music] um uh I don't know put decentralize it decent caliz it okay stop the Bots with the spam stop the Bots yeah big one less censorship less censorship wow interesting and to finish it off guys at token 249 on the panel of crypto the masses my favorite question of all time I'm going start with you Raj Raj if you can have lunch or dinner with one person Dead or Alive lunch or dinner with one person Dead Alive who would it be Michael Mich here we go man uh the business is flourishing there huh Dead or Alive go Mike who do you have lunch or dinner with Richard feineman Richard F W interesting Michael that's a good one yeah to finish it off to at the who can at lunch or dinner one person who would it be I'll take Thomas Edison Edison why is that I mean he's like you know one of the biggest investors and entrepreneurs combined of course here we go on that note of investors guys thank you very much it was great being with you guys we're right on time a big hand of Applause for a panel and uh it's back to you Mr work