From Exchanges to Ecosystems: Building the Next Crypto Super Apps - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2025

Welcome, welcome, welcome guys. Another token 2049. As Andrew mentioned, that's been my 10th year doing this. Very excited to be with you all. Uh we're going to have a lot of fun the next 20 minutes uh to talk about how the ecosystem is evolving in from uh in the the from exchanges to ecosystems in the in the crypto super app world.

I promise you'll be insightful, interesting, and hopefully exciting as we had the dream team panel today and we'll jump all over it as well. I Andrew introduced the panel, but I want to give a bit of background I think will be very very useful. Uh you mentioned first Sierra on that side. Uh by the way, before doing what she's doing now at C2 Ventures, she used to be at Hobie Group Hobie Group. Uh but she's also an author.

She wrote a book called The Rise of the Metverse. And if you're wondering what happened to her, she was at the ER until 4:00 a.m. last night. Her contact lens broke and really, she's back on stage this morning.

Cecilia from XC. Uh, by the way, one thing about Cecilia, she's at MX, you guys know her as a chief strategy officer there. But previously, she co-founded Morph and FEMX and she's a big big fitness junkie as well. So, good to have us with us today as well.

Thank you.

And of course, not le last but not least, Vivian Lynn. uh before being a chief product officer at BingX uh she was a Morgan Stanley BNP Paraba Dutch Bank focused on forex and equity derivatives and in her free time in BC she's a big golfer and also built an app for insurance agents so here we go you have the dream team panel today we're going to jump into it um I want to start actually with you Siccilia um when we're obviously at at token when you think about the future of a crypto super app how is it going to Look, how do you envision that?

Well, it depends on like how do you define super apps, right? If you're talking about super apps like WeChat, honestly, I don't think it's going to happen in crypto, at least in short terms.

Why is that?

Because I think being a super app, first you need to have a very high frequency use um chat or, you know, uh call a cab or get some food. Um it's high frequency. Uh you use it every day. And second it has to be a rigid request like you you have to use it otherwise you'll die today. So WeChat is uh start like this if if we take WeChat like example it start like this um people use it to chat every day and then it develops into you know uh adding payment adding contents adding um lifestyle related into it.

So people live on WeChat. This is what I define super app as. But if you look into crypto, there's nothing like um WeChat which you will use every day. Yeah. Um we are running exchanges.

Exchange is already on the top of the whole blockchain um sectors. People use it with high frequency but it's not like daily use. We have a lot of big traders but they are not like day traders. Um so they don't have to open Maxi app every day or uh our competitors app every day. Um and meanwhile there's no need for them to live on this app.

Yeah, it's not reject uh request. Um but what I'm thinking is that we can build something more like for example um Revolute from Europe or New Bank from um Latin America um or Alip Pay for example from China. Um this is more based on finance and payment. So we use uh probably one day I think many sexes are already building that sex is the entry for many traders and they use it for wallet for payment for um earn crypto for lending for collateral all these things like this I I think this will be the future of

also in difference with WeChat people start using as a messaging app and then evolve into payments right whereas it's different from the crypto apps where people coming into you know Mexi to trade not actually to message each other at at the getgo on on it initially I I just want to move it to you as well on the data side though, right? Because the reason WeChat is so successful, there's a lot of data, you know, the the the algorithm can give what's relevant to me and actually be able to cross-ell me information as well. How is that going to work in in crypto? Do you think we're going to be able to use this data capability?

Uh, yes, of course. I think crypto industry was built the strength of blockchain technology is about transparency, about the volume of data. Imagine there's like a millions of data transaction lock uploaded there on like all the mainet. So I think data is something that maybe not that successible on the traditional industry but it's like available for everyone to access uh in blockchain. So I have a slightly different uh opinion as the as Cecilia about u super app um is like just as you said which has start from a messenger application then they extend their scope to a wealth management to a trading app maybe and the social media and what we are seeing now is that like Binance and maybe like many of the big exchange they're trying to extend their scope from a trading um a a trading use case extending it to wealth management extend to it to like a a strategy trading bar social trading and extend to like newsletter uh news outlet.

So this is the way that we extend the use case like also increase the efficiency um increase the frequency and also um like we want to influence more of life aspects from um like single one app.

Yeah. Maybe Vivian just on that like isn't there a bit of the contradiction because there's many panels today on talk about DeFi and privacy and crypto and payments that we have and many of us like we're advocating towards that as well. Ironically for this to work for to have a good super app you need that data. Isn't it a bit contrary to what crypto even stands for?

You mean

there's a difference when I'm using WeChat or Kareem app in the Middle East or Grab here. I'm comfortable giving my data for my taxi routes and my food. But when you're integrating that also with payments, it's a different level of privacy you're giving out.

Yeah, I think we need to leave that problem to uh techn technology advancement. I'm a product manager. So from a product perspective, there's always a way that we can solve a particular problem. So number one, we need to figure out what is the problem is as in your question just now, the problem or the question to be solved is privacy. Then we find out what kind of the technology we can use for for example zk for example multi-layer of blockchain for example on what kind of also consensus as well of what uh what layer of information can be uploaded or to be on put on chain for uh what of the accessibility for what group of user.

We can have all that um domains defined clearly to solve the privacy problem. But of course uh the efficiency is another um a separate question and the performance is a separate question.

But sir I'll move it to you because when you look at super apps there is a winner takes all right. Um, Grab in the Middle East dominates uh Grab here in in Asia, Singapore for example, right? Uh, Karim in the Middle East, right? And same you can say with all the other apps, Uber and the likes in other parts of the world in crypto right now like if you look at the dominance of Binance for example, do you believe any of the other platforms have a chance or if a platform can succeed at this is going to be de facto Binance because of the market share it has? First of all, I'm very sorry to be here with my Halloween makeup, but the key takeaway is be very careful when you remove your contact lens, unless you want a surgeon to scratch it all from your eyeball 3:00 a.

m. in the morning. And I also think this probably a better question for these two ladies on the stage. But, uh, here's my two cents. Um, I don't think you beat Binance by becoming the next Binance.

You can change the game, right? It's already happening. It's revolutional. It's crypto. Everything's new.

You have to be prepared for all the kinds of other alternatives trading opportunities in this market. We have hyperlquid. We have a you know even for stable coin we have like plasma. Everything is coming out. You know this industry is ever changing.

Everything is new in every like three months. So you I think for beating Binance dominancy, you can go vertical, you can go regional, take advantage of all of the clear rules of regulatory um licenses out there, be the most smooth and working fiat to crypto to onchain RAM. There's all the other ways you can take the market share, which is currently about 40% of the whole trading volume on central exchanges. But even there you know I would argue that if I'm using a trading platform I'm not doing it's comes back to our initial conversation I started with messaging apps then we added payments and nobody's going on their crypto platform to trade it. A good analogy I would give is Bloomberg terminals and trafi that has been the de facto messaging mechanism in a lot of hedge funds and buy side and sell side like do you have any example of payment platform that has been the entry point that has then become a super app which one you think is successful

the payment app we have Alipe

Alipe yeah if you were to argue Alipe is one that started with payment and then everything else evolved

right but I also think it's a um it's also a cultural thing because Asia is very educated ated on super apps already. You know, we just there is it's not for everybody for but for Asia specifically the users are very used to, you know, deal with a lot of the things within one app. You want the payments, you want the messaging, you want even booking for a hotel, you want your movie tickets, everything in one app. So, you know, it's just a ground for it.

So, if that's possible, like coming back to the concern that the super app has already a lot of data for us and I think China has a special case with, you know, Alip pay and rechapp pay and all these things. Coming back to what you were saying initially Vivian so do you believe like the solution could be technological one like could we have it on DeFi or ZK proof that's you think that's the way we're going to be able to build a crypto super app if we're able to build one

uh that a possible way

but I think there's many different options it's rely on different uh many different layer of things number one is technology number two is whether we are ready to apply that technology number three is compliance right it's always think about but I want to echo a little bit about um the Binance competition. Actually nowadays when we talk about market share about uh competition we rarely talk about we we want to uh go beyond Binance. We want to take over Binance. What we are talking about here is that what is our core strengths. We always think about what is our core strengths and how we manage to allocate the resources needed to um maximize our core strengths.

And you know what uh I give you example for um like copy trading when we when uh bing x entering into the market there's uh okx uh like bitmax there are many like already very established uh exchange out there but we still find our very niche market is because we find okay well so good at doing social trading that's such a small use case but we build it beautifully that's why we attract the first batch of user this same thing happen nowadays like Binance big, Bybit big and like maybe we are not smart as well right but still we see hyper liquidity we still see many other like aster they are coming out they renovate the rules they renovate how they build the user user experience build their um like um tokconomics so these are their core strengths the thing is ask yourself what kind of the problem you want to solve and what is the core strength and how you organize your resource to maximize it.

But is there a problem to solve?

People in crypto want a super app in crypto or they just comfortable using Trafi Rails for the food delivery and when it comes to payments, their wealth, they're happy to keep it either in beautiful centralized exchanges or in using in DeFi or self- custody wallets.

If you ask my opinion, I would say um we focus on we focus on solving particular problem.

Yeah. And if those problem those uh features functionality has to be combined in the super app then so be it. If the functionality people just don't want to use to combine it for privacy reason for functionality performance reason we just separate it.

Sicilia do you believe there's a problem to be solved?

Do you believe we need a cryp in crypto?

I I don't think it uh everything should be on chain. That's u

you don't think everything should be on chain. Yeah.

I don't think everything should be on chain. Um I was building a consumer chain before MO was u MOF is a consumer layer too.

So at first we were very actively looking for consumer builders

and then we failed because there are not so many consumer builders on the market and there's no need for consumer DAPs on chain because people don't they are happily using their web two apps.

Yeah.

Um and it's very convenient. It's they're very satisfied with that. Why they have to be on chain? So people give me answers like oh uh because of uh privacy issue or because of uh air drops or the tokens. So they treat the tokens uh more as a product than the product itself.

Um but eventually you'll find that won't last. So that's why it's I think more than 60 or even 70% of the builders on this market is still D5 builders or like DeFi or AI I would say um builders but very very little they are related to you know um lifestyle or daily use which means that there's either um there there's no supply and there's no demand on this market. So uh back to the first answer I give you. I don't think that um something like WeChat will happen onchain very soon because people come to crypto because of

maybe investment or maybe speculation. They this is their first step. That's why the um trading platform the exchanges are always their first stop in crypto and then they start to discover more but more in still in DeFi. It's related to all to finance because this is our nature. Um but of course if you think bigger will be more and more to put your life on chain but it's a very long-term thing

because I would argue on my web two super app I should be able to order a t cab immediately whereas when it comes to payment I should have 2FA we should all the security that we have in place so I just think even the when it comes to UI the UX ease of use of these platforms there's a difference anyways where we should be heading as well but coming back to what you said I just want to double click a bit on it because if let's say we're building L1 the foundation will come and support various people building on a L1 on various use cases right if you believe the super app is going to come let's say from a centralized exchanges do you believe the central like the investment arm of of you know mech will come and should come and support these apps you think it's be built externally or will be built by the MC developer inhouse

I think it's also same um as how we build up um the ecosystem on chain. It's it's the same like thinking about building ecosystem whether it's exchange or it's a chain. It's pretty similar. At first you actually need to build something by yourself because in this case you'll keep it safe and you keep you will make sure that it's a legit product which can acquire uh real users and afterwards you can not outsource but to find um talented builders um to to build them here. But for Mexi, I think um we are pretty different from like uh what you ask about Binance.

Um Binance is like they're building everything in different verticals. They want to build a super app um in crypto finance. But Maxi is very focused. We have we are a big company but we know what we are and who we are and what we can build. I think Maxi is very good at building just trading platform.

So that's why we put all the efforts in building you know to do the listing. We have the most um trendy tokens like 4,000 trading pairs on Maxi. We are the fastest to list all these meme coins on the market. And then we have super low fee, extreme low fees. 200 uh trading pairs on Mexi are zero fees and the rest are still like lower than the other top um leading exchanges.

And then uh we have airdrops every day. So you come to Maxi, we give you a easy access to all these uh tokens um uh to to purchase. Um yeah and uh and super good like very comprehensive liquidity. So it's just for trading experience and the rest we use Maxi Ventures because Maxi Venture is actively investing in a lot of uh leading projects on the market. We believe we give them the money we give them this commitment and we think that they are the right person they are the right talents to build.

So we put them on the same boat with us and then we build together. Okay. So on this point, Syria, like as an allocator, as an investor, right? If you're looking at these crypto super apps, where would you put your money?

Probably start with uh investing into a wallet native account OS for content, identity, and investments.

Content.

Yeah, content, identity, and investments. Um, and I also think that in web 3, you probably won't have a super app that deals with everything, right? So I think in web three uh who there are three components very important who's the ownership of the users ownership of the branding and ownership of the assets. I don't think one app will deal with all of it and actually take all of the market share. So even for WeChat or Alip Pay all the super app even Tik Tok is doing e-commerce right but they actually don't deal with any um a lot of the stuff by themsel gateway they have partners when it comes to booking tickets they have partners when it comes to even asset management right so it's important to build a strong brand in this market and win the trust and really work with all of the regulators in different regions and ensure that um users assets will be safe so that you can start building there and serve whatever you you you can to the users out there.

So let me ask a question to actually each one of you. If you were a betting person today in which country and will we see the first crypto super app and if there's an existing player that would build it who you think it will be

country? Yeah, if there is one. I mean, no, I mean to use the Alip Pay WeChat example, right? Uh, compared to Europe and other places or you think it'll be in China, you think it'll be in Middle East, you think it'll be in US? If you had to take a guess.

Okay. Well, I I I just I I trying to think about I mean the super app the builder of the super super app probably will be in US but the application the massive adoption of the super app probably will be in Asia.

That is my answer.

What do you think? I think if you are talking about their entity, it must be in BVI or Cayman Island, right?

No, but I mean Yeah, of course. But I can Yeah, of course.

The facto app is a bit more localized as well.

Um I think most builders are still in China, India and US. Um but China because of the regulation issue, I think it will be difficult for Chinese builders to build such a super app. US I would say the same um with VV um because US is still leading all these innovations in crypto but uh if they are building a platform and open to you know all different builders I think it's like basically every builders in the world

what do you think

Mandarin speaking group so not China of course because you know we had the history of yeah all the unhappiness with uh you know doing different things in crypto with China right Um but because the user base are already educated all the UIUX for super apps you know user are very used to it so it just naturally I think it's going to be be uh China Chinese speaking Chinese speaking groups

yeah so be the users who are comfortable using WeChat pay alipe the ecosystems I'll be the one to be more inclined to use a crypto app if there is one I don't know how it'll make it language wise though because the the facto super app is very localized I mean you know uh but anyway guys we have less than three minutes left. My my best friend the bell is here with us. I'm going to ask you guys quick questions and I need one or two word answers. You ready? Sarah, I'm starting with you.

Are we starting easy? We're in Singapore for Token 249. What's your favorite thing about Singapore?

The airport.

Airport.

So efficient.

Especially new terminals. Beautiful. Favorite thing about Singapore?

Um Singaporeans.

Singaporeans. Here we go. Here we go.

Spicy crab.

Spicy crab. Here we go. I'm starting with you on this side, Vivian. What's the one thing you love the most about our industry?

I love to work with engineers.

Engineers. Celia. [Music]

I think the future.

The future.

Bitcoin.

Bitcoin. This is a tricky one. The crypto industry needs to choose a mascot. A mascot. Mhm.

Who is a better mascot and why? I'm going to start with you. Superman, the Ninja Turtles, Humpty Dumpty, or Laboo.

Oh, it has to go with Laboo.

Why is that?

Because I'm also Chinese.

Love it.

I think it's CZ.

CZ as a mascot. Well, okay. It's not even a choice, but here you go.

He's the best mascot for crypto, right? Uh I would choose love as well because it looks similar as our muska. We're adopting a round face.

Brings me the next question now. I'm changing it because of this. You have tomorrow you have to start a new startup. Vivian starting from you. You have a choice of these four co-founders.

Who do you choose? CZ Justin Sun who's coming right after this by the way. Nice little plug. J Bezos or Donald Trump? I was stay at being X.

Why is that?

Such a lovely company to work for.

Donald Trump.

Why is that?

I think it's obvious, right? Yeah. Like

I just do it by myself. They're not hungry anymore.

Is what? Sorry.

They're not hungry anymore.

Donald Trump calls you into a meeting, Syria, to ask you about your point of view, your best advice on crypto. What do you tell him? Uh, keep investing.

Keep investing.

Yeah.

Tell me what

Donald Trump calls you in a meeting at the White House to give you his advice to for you to give advice on crypto. What do you tell him?

Um, buy more Bitcoin.

Buy more Bitcoin.

Yeah. Same. Investment in Bitcoin.

Guys, uh, one more question left before. Two more question left. You have to go back to school today. What is the one course you take you wish you had taken knowing everything you know about the future of finance? The future of finance.

Yeah. What course would you take if you go back to school today? You wish you had taken

uh history.

Arts.

Arts. There you go.

Yeah. Painting. I would want to

arts as well. Yeah.

And the last question guys to finish up with 10 seconds. I start from you Syria. My traditional question. Whoever goes on stage or on TV with me, if you can have lunch or dinner with one person dead or alive, lunch or dinner with one person dead or alive, who do you have lunch or dinner with?

That's hard. Can Can you come back to me?

Sir,

can you come back to me on this? answer.

Uh, Walt Disney.

So, yeah.

Um, Satoshi Nakamoto.

Satoshi Nakamoto. Whoever she or he is. And to finish it off, our panel on Super Apps at the Token 249. Lunch or dinner with one person who you have lunch or dinner with?

Sam Altman.

Sam Alman. Where you go? We just sold the secondaries today. He's very happy. Guys, thank you very much.

Big of applause for our panel. Thank you very much, everybody.