Countdown to Mainnet: Exploring New Emerging Ecosystems - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2024

so today we we have a a bunch of founders of some of the the new and exciting high performance chains uh that are coming out that are evm compatible um these Founders have a very diverse uh set of backgrounds and experiences uh they also indulged in something that I think the uh the previous generation didn't in that the word KO had to be used in Pitch decks uh and uh you know they all have very different strategies towards ecosystem growth or product growth so first we have Smokey from be chain uh bear chains uh using a new uh mechanism called proof of liquidity to help incentivize applications in a way that other chains didn't then we have Shia for Mega E and uh Mega E is is trying to get to sub 50 millisecond blocks and be one of the most performant l2s that exists and finally we have K from uh monad I also just learned we all just learned that ke is John in Hawaiian uh but ke uh has been in kind of a lot of different roles worked in trading before and then tried to make a a blockchain for optimizing a lot of things uh whether it's me and or tradeability all right so we have kind of a bunch of different versions of the world in terms of high performance optimizations we have one mask we have one hat uh so I think the first thing we uh you know we should point out is you know everyone who starts a new chain uh is sort of uh I would say a frenemy of some form with each other and uh I think today we're going to try to poke the bear of what the co operati looks like so first uh who do you think's actually going to get to Main net first I mean I might be a little bit biased here um but I think that we're probably closest to mainnet uh that's also accounting for the fact that we've been behind on mayet for a little while but uh the goal is to get that out before the end of the year who do you think's going to be first I'm always bullish on bar chin so yeah be first I'm wearing a bar shirt guys today interrupting it Kenny uh I have no idea I'm curious though okay who do you think is going to be last fine you guys all are are are footing around on the but let's like let's kind of let's kind of go who do you think is going to be the last of the three of you to launch uh my understanding and and this is all like Rumor Mill type stuff was that was that um ke and the Gang were going to be a little bit later but I actually I I don't I'm not working off hard facts I'm working off people yapping in group chats I just hope we're not the last I'm going to be the devs I guess uh I would assume Mega eth because I think you guys started quite a bit after bear chain and monads so I would just assume given the amount of work that has to happen it probably um good to set expectations of you know having more time to get to M that yeah I think we're probably both in the q1 camp oh really that's really soon okay inshah in in all right well someone needs to make prediction markets so that these two can can manipulate the Oracle and then uh okay let's maybe go to a more serious question which I think is a question that is adjacent to um kind of uh all of you but do you do you view l2s as parasitic to e more parasitic to ethereum than new l1s that are evm compatible or vice versa sort of which one do you think is more of the parasitic relationship and which one do you think is more of a symbiotic relationship it's a good question um I think they're both parasitic in different ways to be a little bit of a com out to start right um I think l2s are probably a little bit more directly parasitic but they also add more value to ethereum directly so like you know it's a weird delta neutral sort of relationship um I would probably Air at the moment towards saying that l2s are slightly more parasitic though I think the whole point of being a layer one one is you either kill ethereum or kill salana why do you want to help ethereum at all there's no relation I you you've done a good job and kill ethereum or Solana you succeed whereas Layer Two For example like Mega East we literally cannot abandon ethereum right we need ethereum and we're there to scale ethereum so it's definitely a symbiotic relationship and not only do we set on ethereum we actually use other parts of ethereum Stack so I think it's very obvious that you know we I think it all just comes down to the level of innovation I think you know at the end of the day we need systems that can scale to many more users um with monad although monad is a layer one um the entire purpose the entire goal of our team is to prove out different architectural improvements that we ultimately think ethereum layer one should consider as well um and that ranges from a much more performant database from asynchronous execution where we decouple a consensus from execution also parallel execution which is I think something that's really needed for ethereum um and it's something that we're excited about introducing to the ethereum ecosystem so at the end of the day from my perspective it's more about technology and less about the specific you know Community sizes and and trying to steal users from any concepts like that um it should be much more about just growing the it's it's almost try to say this at this point but growing the pie I sincerely believe that um usage of onchain like uh applications wallets is so small relative to the entire population that um the focus should just be on getting new users so do you have plan to have a team that implement the Mona technology on top of ethereum so that part of a road map the way SP resources correct the goal is to ultimately contribute to the ethereum research um community and ethereum scaling Road road map um I think the great thing about ethereum is it's very decentralized so anyone can propose eips um there are many different client teams that are working to prove out different improvements so um the goal of monad labs is to prove out these improvements and then um you know depending on whether it fits well with ethereum's own road map propose some of those zps I'm looking forward to that um so one thing is I I think most people here could probably go Google what the different uh tradeoffs each of your approaches make so I'm not going to insult everyone's Googling ability no offense uh instead I'm going to actually ask you a question to pick a project from your ecosystem which could be your favorite it could be the most interesting it could be the most technically challenging some some project and give us an elevator pitch for this project and why it takes advantage of unique powers on your chain and also why everyone else on stage's chain is probably not suited for that application sure um I think that there's man there's one of two paths I could go down here but I'll take the the less one um there's a application called exponents that I think will be very cool on bechain uh exponents is basically allowing you to build um Oracle free power or linear perss On Any Given altcoin or any given longtail asset or or you know short tail asset for that matter um and it uses basically on one hand a version of the you know Unis swap spot Arbitrage mechanism with leverage um to allow you to price these uh these different pairs uh what get actually what get gets mayw interesting there is that for the first time exponents adds effectively a bribe layer to directional leverage trading so while the typical model for like GMX GP whatever it might be has been hey I'm going to you know LP act as the house and then I'm going to make more money if people lose trades um for the first time exponents has actually allowed you to effectively um you know pit people against each other in terms of having you know communities go at War so you could have like a whiff Bon pair and you could have people you know bribing each other to go long on whiff and short on Bonk or vice versa um I think on one hand you get a really interesting interaction with proof of liquidity where you can actually get this this triple yield sandwich where on one hand you have the the straight up yield for from you know lping that pool and that spot Arbitrage fee you have the you have the um effectively incentives the earnings from that bribe layer of someone saying Go long or go short on this and then you have proof of liquidity incentives which can actually be directed towards that pool which ends up being incredibly attractive and especially for sort of an advanced derivatives product like this which typically has issues in terms of a cold start problem and attracting initial Capital proof of liquidity really helps get these guys off the ground and allow for a constant inflow of volume and Arbitrage opportunities uh there's a lot more that I could go into on that but that's one of the projects that feels very culturally correct as well for the bar chain ecosystem um because over the last couple years it's become very obvious that you know be chain has a series of of micr Cults within it uh and a lot of people who who tend towards tribalistic behavior and I think that that will cause um you know very interesting market dynamics when it comes to longtail assets you know of which there's going to be a number launching on the Chain sh anyone here uses VPN raise your hand I assume all of us too wow that means 90% of the audience is lying that's be honest I'm watching you guys um the top six VPN providers in the world are controlled by two large conglomerates and they're actively stealing your data because otherwise they can't make money and nation states are actually suing them so now you'll be thinking oh you know what let's build a decentralized VPN there has been many attempts at building decentralized VPN for the last six years none of them works because even though they provide the decentralization and privacy they were not performing enough and no one is going to use a slow VPN so enter hop hop is a decentralized VPN on Mega East and the reason it's only possible on Mega East is because of a latency by having 10 millisecond latency you can have multiple noes by leveraging billion users internet um Hardware at home and hop between different nodes and get the same performance as web2 VPN all right ke uh there are a number of apps in the monad ecosystem that I'm super excited about just to highlight one in particular KY is a social media betting app that is basically trying to tap into the incredible um trend of um in genz of people consuming so much social media and um wanting to participate and not just be purely a consumer but also someone who um is is is reflecting on what's going on participating and influencing um so the MVP is U I think it's in beta right now there are a couple hundred testers within the monad community that are testing it out but at the end of the day it's an effort to bring prediction markets to the social media space and really also push a lot of data on chain um which ultimately could grow into much bigger bigger markets you guys were all too nice because uh you ignored the last part of my question which was uh you know why would someone not do to build this app on one of the other chains but all right may may maybe somehow we'll we'll get you to say more barbs um let's switch over a little bit to uh I think the thing that most of Twitter probably recognizes a lot of you guys for which is the notion of community and I put community in quotes because I think everyone has a different definition um you know some people's definition involves flooding malls with people lining up some people's definition involves well I'm not sure your definition and some people's definition involves lots of stuffed animals so uh I I kind of think maybe why don't you walk us through what you know you would Define as community and the role and importance of community especially when you're pre-launch pre pre- chain pre- testet uh kind of you know you're figuring things out and you know yeah let's start with that so like how would you define Community what do you think the importance of it is and of course you you know I think bar CH and maned probably have the the the largest answers but I'm I'm most excited to hear sh's answer afterwards I think um community's become really interesting it's it's on one hand the ultimate meme but on the other hand the Ultimate Weapon in that for the longest time you know you'll hear people yelling Community is everything Community is everything and then you know not really following through on that um I think that for Bear chain it becomes uh increasingly important because we did not start out trying to build a chain in the slightest uh we started it out as a weird wacky Community nft project of a bunch of like nfts of be smoking weed um and that was like the initial Genesis it was a hundred Bears raffled off in defi discords like Olympus and fra and curve and alchemics uh and a bunch of people thinking hey these are kind of funny we're going to buy these bears for no apparent reason right um so I think that what is kind of interesting here is that we took uh a very um opposite approach towards I think the traditional path in building L1 uh which is to say we did not go and try to spin research from academic institution or a larger company we basically talked to a community built a community over time through rebasing nfts of all things uh which very much attracted you know sort of your left curve and your right curve um and tried to build a product that ultimately served the needs of users and developers um and I think that like the community has been an incredibly important sounding board along that way and the way that we think about it is it's the base of people that can actually care right there's lots of M there's lots of peoplein the community that are like there to farm an airdrop and there to dump some tokens and they're to get an ambassador role or blah blah blah blah blah and complain about why they're not getting enough roles in the Discord you know whatever random piece of crap they want to care about um but I think that the the most interesting and the most important part about the community are those that go from passive action to to active action um and for us what we actually saw was that like out of that initial community base I can think of over a hundred different people that have actually gone to start different projects or contribute to different initiatives within the be chain ecosystem whether that's something like like the Honey Jar which is sort of like a a salana super t- mask plus product Suite or product Builder um the guy's a bareland which is like a community Hub a resource Group the honey cast which as the podcast the guys who went on to found baritone and Goldilocks which are two different different venture-backed products on bar chain like the community is the ultimate uh I guess petri dish for cool things happening right and and for us we see it as a a group that we have to be very accountable to not a group that we always have to listen to but a group whose input we have to take into account uh and a group that if given the right guard rails uh and sort of like you know planted seeds alongside uh can actually be a massive massive Force multiplier for our work um because I think at the end of the day the real tough thing to do in crypto um is to make people give a right like why do I care about your product why do I care about your building how do I become you know price in insensitive to some extent how do I become culturally aligned with this uh and I think that the community is is absolutely key to doing so right so it ends up being a a relationship of trust and it ends up being a relationship of like you know how they can tell that you're tangibly trying to make their lives better um so for us we think about that a lot we think about how we can do right by the community uh and we think about how we can make sure that people are rewarded for actions that are not incentivized if that makes sense like I think one of the biggest things that's gone wrong over time as we as you know crypto companies have built communities is these questing platforms or like you know these these subverting attempts at getting people to do something um with a very explicit incentive at the end of that tunnel uh I think that our approach has been can you try to self can you try to find the people who are doing the things that you already want to encourage naturally and then Empower them to continue doing so because then you actually form the right flywheels and network effects to see something good come together um so yeah I think Community is incredibly massive Edge and I don't think that we would be anywhere close to where we are right now without them when it comes to an ecosystem point of view fundraising point of view practical point of view and and also like motivation and and morale point of view ke yeah the as I think about what's going on in the monad community um the thing that strikes me is that um you know monad as a team we feel incredibly supported by the monad community um I think the community has really helped put um the project in the position that it's in now of um having a little bit of reputability and and um um resources and just um in a position to help influence the industry for the better so I'm incredibly grateful to um so many individual community members that have contributed so much to um the monad project success and as we go forward um I would say our approach to building Community is really one of trying to deliver um an environment where community members can benefit from being part of this group um we've just seen so many community members within the monad community um getting to increase their skills take on leadership opportunities organize initiatives um get a larger audience for the content that they create um we have incredible artists within the monad community so trun I know you were alluding to the the the stuffed animals um the stuffed animals are all just like a kind of a physical manifest manifestation of um incredible art that people have made within the community so um yeah I think that the the superpower of crypto overall is the crypto Community that's what's um allowed crypto to kind of take over so much mind share in the world and I think it's really important that every project team um respect their community and respect and try to offer as much value as possible um Smokey was talking about um sort of like Financial incentives that some projects sometimes use with respect to their communities um and I think at the end of the day whenever there's an incredible amount of value created there's the possibility of that but I think that can't be the only thing because um then we just end up with very um you know communities that don't have stickiness and um if we forget about crypto for a second and you just talk about like what is a community like you know it would be you know people in a neighborhood that get together and and have a block party or people have a common interest to you know become friends and support each other so yeah I think it's just using common sense about like not asking community members to do things that are tasks but rather just um always trying to create opportunities um last thing I'll say is that for Builders that are building in the Monet ecosystem one thing that has definitely attracted some of them is the strength of the community and the fact that there's basically a talent pipeline um for them to be able to hire into their projects um hiring directly from the monted community which is so um just really fun and like kind of knows how to how to build Vibes how to um a quote unquote Market in the web three space which in my opinion is just building community so I think that at the end of the day it can be very win-win um but it's just using common sense and then on the part of our team working really hard to cultivate a positive environment cool finally Shia what is your definition of community what how do you view Community as important to megie especially you know given that you have seen two examples on stage yeah I think I mean we we the newest Community I don't any audience here who have heard of Mega before I see one hand I oh two three okay yeah I guess we do have a community so thank you um yeah I think my definition is a little bit raw compared to both of them because we don't have a big retail uh Community yet we have a very strong developer community so I think at early stage of of Mega um most of our Focus right now is Empower Builders and the logic is by empowering Mega what we call the mega Mafia the mega is Builder and having them to build really cool apps and then they can go grow their own Community uh I think the chain job is like building Nation State Building you know having people you know Empower people and make sure that they are having fun but at the end of the day it's really your ads that's directly interacting with the community so our definition so far is by empowering that Builders we are also empowering the end user cool all right so all three of you have unlaunched projects uh you have a lot of tweets that are sort of in your ecosystem atmospheres the your your your crypto Twitter ozone layer and uh you know within that there have been a lot of uh a lot of controversies from uh particular uh Anon tweeters who really like needling a bunch of different projects um I would say each of the three of you have very different tactics for uh responding to those but first uh I want to know sort of what are your favorite hater tweets that you've had written and which ones do you kind of respect which ones do you think are you know yeah okay fine we we they're kind of right and which on do you think they complet complely up completely get wrong and and sort of like you know is the wrong type of diss track yeah um I don't know how many of them I remember to be honest but I'm always happy to be prompted I think that uh one that was really funny um was like Venture apologist or Big Bird had a had a banger a little while ago around the time that we announced our series B where he had like a clip of like a an interview with Vance from framework where they were talking about the the baroa event which had a whole bunch of panels but also just had like a a couple thousand people like hanging out and he was like yeah so framework basically invested in these guys because they threw a sick Banger um and I'm like you know what may be partially true and I don't have an issue with this I think there was a little bit more to the thesis to be fair but I have no doubt that that played a role in it because those guys are are pretty pretty Chad likee and and dudes do in fact Rock um so I think that that is one of the ones that is both entertaining and and false um I think that at some point there were a lot of people who were like bear changes Kanto and I was like well that's just really inaccurate I think those are worlds apart and I also am not a you know not checked out like that um what else there was very briefly OS fud but like I don't think people know what OS is anymore I think that's healthy for the world um I think I I find enshrining plebs pretty funny because uh because pleb sometimes has some some good takes that are half accurate I think he once said that um he said that if your girl's a barab or a bar then focus on yourself King that one was kind of a banger and and shio has a bar bar B shirt so you know she's riding with the community I I appreciate her for that I just need a Mega eth shirt or a hat put on top of the bear hat um yeah I think those are all like valid you know I think the the ones I would that I would would go against the most are like the ones that basically say that um that bear chain is similar to Blaster Kanto because I think both of those are like very far apart and very cursed in a relative sense yeah I mean I I will say this question was inspired by the fact that shiria was giving out shirts of tweets that were hating on megie pretty B this week so and and I know all three of you have have inevitably been the the target of these these types of tweet so Shia what what given that you you went to the effort of actually even making sure it's what are your what are your greatest hits in terms of things you think are right first not right yeah I I love those uh I love those tweets and the one that's really up are the one I respect the most like the catness in those tweets are just good uh I brought one of the the me example it's not the one with the the Tweet but Venture apologist once said that you know Mega is just like rest on a box and we love it so much so we printed it says rest on a box and our mascot is a rabbit and then there is a laptop was a yeah somewhere here so I I think they are very inspiring in terms of creativity and uh some of the tweets are also really good for engagement I think W Chu say something and you know my co-found Elon responded and it was just you know makes you giggle makes you laugh it's all good vibes um but I think the one that I particularly um I thought was really uh Chad was enshrining pla he was like oh you know what all Mega E needs to do is to pass the vibe check and they somehow completely after it up and and I was so surprised to see it because we're such a nent ecosystem like I don't even know what the vibe check is but once he put the uh Vibe check out there I feel like he's actually getting the Vibes right so in a sense I think the more they sub tweet us the better it is for me and that's the way we you know went out our way to promote them so if any of them is in the audience you're on one of the multi sick you can come and say thank you to me I'm right now your PR marketing agency Thank Me Later y yeah I think that you know there's the risk of like whenever you're trying to explain a joke and why it's funny it's like for sure you know becomes pretty cringe trying to do that so um I guess what I would say is that I think that there's truth in all good humor and if it were just totally out a left field then uh it wouldn't be funny it would just be like random so um yeah I think that those guys are funny because uh guys and girls whoever they are these anons um because they are pretty observant and I think it's also a reflection of the fact that um something that I believe fundamentally which is that people on crypto Twitter are not stupid like people on crypto Twitter actually like very much are you know like they see things happening and they come to their own conclusions like they don't just um believe whatever the the Tweeter is saying and so I think with respect to you know the idea of communicating about uh one's own project or one's own brand it is really important to always be truthful because whenever you kind of play the fool and um you know brag about something that's not true then um it always ends up backfiring and always ends up looking um quite cringe actually so I think without calling out any specific um projects or anything I think you know sometimes the tweets which are like oh my goodness like look at this much volume going on um while like some sort of incentive program is going on or speculation about an incentive program those always look super cringe and people are not stupid and when they see that they're actually real time judging the project and lowering their estimation about the honesty and truthfulness of that project so yeah I think that with the alignment and on it is actually kind of a good example of um truth deriving or truth producing humorous results um at a far greater rate than you know like in the average person so there is some truth to some of the observations that they have wow so you're also okay with whatever they're saying about Monet um I think that I mean it obviously depends on the I don't know you'd have to show a specific tweet but um yeah I think I think at the end of the day there's you know they're like you know and more generally like people on crypto Twitter are the community which is the white blood cells of any um project at the end of the day so I think I'm appreciative of um the people calling us out if they think we're doing something wrong yeah same I'm also appreciative of that so we're on the same page well I mean you appreciate it so much you make merch out of I I think s of humor is a part of the DNA of Mega E all right let's uh let's go back to some some more uh kind of serious sort of serious questions which is you know in this world where everyone is talking about how there's maybe an excess amount of block space there's not enough demand for the block space um you know the three of you are about to launch something that's going to increase the supply a really large amount I'm kind of curious how you think about how to build demand for your ecosystems in the early days especially when you know a you're competing with other rollups B you have to Source liquidity initially C you have to find you have to kind of help your app developers what's sort of your initial go to market once you launch like what what are the first 30 and 90 days what do you think they look like and what do you think you know you're doing now to get ready for that can I can I go first actually just so we change yeah sounds good um um yeah I think that talking specifically about trying to get um stimulate enough demand to then counter a huge amount of Supply that a new blockchain is producing is kind of the wrong way to look at it because um we really want to have an abundance mindset where there is so much block space like there is so much capacity for um decentralized compute and shared Global state that can serve the whole world that people can build anything that they want to build um and users can use those apps without frictions I think it should be less about trying to equilibrate supply and demand which is a very uh you know like EIP 1559 concept or ethereum gas pricing concept um I think about it much more from the perspective of just build a great um underlying infrastructure that can serve many users and then completely orthogonally try to get um try to help builders are building ambitious apps that are trying to cross the chasm to mass adoption to be as successful as possible um so for for me it would be less about the specifically like the oh no there's like a luming amount of block space let's try to get demand to match it and more about um just the common sense and state of what we want to see happen and with respect to decentralized Tech so I I I guess related to that in your first 90 days post launch let's say main that launch tomorrow what are kind of the things you think about you know even even even if it's not necessarily matching supply and demand there's still a lot of stuff you have to do to kind of like onboard people make sure the experience is good kind of make it easier for new developers like you know you want the the goal of all this infrastructure is such that the marginal cost for the nth developer to join your network should be much less than the nend minus first right and so what what are kind of the things you you're thinking of in that vein if you if you're not thinking of in terms of supply and demand equilibria yeah I think that any startup needs to be growth-minded and growth-minded means creating positive flywheels that accelerate constantly over time so with respect to main net launch that should mean um like we want to see apps on monad Main net day one day 30 day 60 that inspire people to build more great apps so that that flywheel is indeed positive when we talk to projects right now that's the sort of the biggest thing that I try to emphasize is getting to a point where your work is compounding where the project is getting stronger every week due to the um advances that the team is doing and so I think the same thing is true here like main net should just be a giant acceleration moment to help accelerate that flywheel of adoption yeah I think that for us um sorry yeah I think that for us we see it as um similarly not a supply and demand thing but like can you actually build applications that people want to use right and I think that actually all three of us on this panel have taken an approach that's relatively um you know different from a lot of the l1s or l2s of the past and that I think that the the default was very much you know if we build it people will come right the application layer the Bas layer um but people actually don't want to come to to build on if they're not prompted to or given a real reason to do so right if you looked at the move chains if you looked at say if you look like a lot of these ecosystems Sy that actually did not um actively curate and help you know work alongside Builders to to make something happen they often just sort of fizzled right and you'd see nothing of Novel substance in those chains uh or if you did then it was incredibly underwritten by ridiculous Grand programs or very unsustainable initiatives so I think that for us um the absolute top priority has been you know there are 300 plus applications building on be chain right now but that's a stupid vanity metric what I actually think is more important is that there's I'd say 5050 plus applications across a wide variety of verticals that I think are actually interesting and have a chance of making it and as I see it every ecosystem or every alt L1 or L2 can sustain maybe like 10 to 15 apps optimistically that actually get usage outside of like eth mainnet right and like it might actually be closer to 3 to five right and actually the real metric or the real you know win that you're looking for is that within your ecosystem one or two or even three or four of those apps actually become shelling points or something that causes a massive inflow of people who want to come into your chain to use that application or the applications around it right so at one point you could say that was GMX on arbitrum you could say that was FR Tech on Bas you could say that was dfk on Harmony not all these had the happiest endings in every case but in many cases they actually allowed that ecosystem to start getting off the ground and starting to form those positive flywheels and attracting other strong Builders so I think we've approached this from a few different angles one is that you know like I mentioned be chain has been around for a little while we've been able to cultivate this community a number of groups who've gone on to become Builders within the ecosystem and I think that like attracts like right like strong talent and strong Builders attracts strong talent and strong Builders people who are building cool weird stuff attract people who are building cool weird stuff you guys might have heard about you know quit smokingvape to earn on bear chain that recently raised around and saw a bit of notoriety I don't think you see that in other places like I don't think it's culturally correct for a number of other chains right and that being followed up by jerk to earn a Horse Hedge Fund computer vision powered betting on on Twitch streams you know Google ads on chain and a whole bunch of other weird stuff right so I think that we what we are optimizing for and what we think is incredibly important is novelty of applications that have a shot of finding product Market fit while recognizing that there's very very few that are there at the moment uh and especially those applications that might be able to go a little bit beyond you know our circlejerking you know set of 10K users on crypto Twitter but might be able to hit the folks that are at that that intersection of you know Silly enough to to maybe explore crypto and liquid enough to give it a shot right your your Gamers your gamblers your sports betters skitso scrollers on Tik Tok and IG the folks who could jump into the rabbit hole and think that there's something worth exploring um so when I think about you know that ENT end first 30 60 90 days whatever it is it's on one hand there's a liquidity program that we're going to be running uh in collaboration with some Partners going into launch that should help basically allow a number of these top applications within the ecosystem to bootstrap you know tens and hundreds of millions of dollars of liquidity out the gates uh that should really help them you know get over that initial activation energy hurdle start snowballing in terms of usage looping so on so forth and on the other hand I think we want to see a lot of people issuing new tokens on bear chain because that's one of the most key things for an ecosystem to actually Thrive you want there to be internal rotations you want there to be applications that people can use you want there to be new fresh incentives and you want these groups to form their cohorts and their Cycles their own you know mini solunac cycles if you will uh so that's really what we're excited for and we're excited to see the bar for talent go up and up in the ecosystem over time uh as people build applications that you wouldn't find anywhere else you have the final word thank God I think yeah we're over time um I actually agree with the Q&A on the infinite blog space and think from our perspective right we have a Builders program called Mega Mafia so hopefully when we launch uh all of you can play with uh the new dabs and my goal is that they don't feel like a crypto application right they actually feel like webtube but with uh crypto primitive a P2P network uh crypto rail um Etc uh we're also hoping to do a lot more real world uh co-living co-building with a lot of you so in October we are doing meaz zoo in chamai Thailand and early next year we're going to do a lot more Builders program around when we launch our mayet so everything is centered on let's build something cool together and have normies to actually use our application um so yeah I think that's it I know we're we're we're out of time but I'm going to do one tiny one you know one sentence answer for issue take someone else's chain on stage and give them a compliment about design choice they made oh um I like the energy that that Mega eth takes when it comes to to building ecosystems it feels like the right combination of edgy but like high competence wait I can pick anyone yeah you pick I I think you guys build an amazing Community I've said it five times now um yeah I think that bar chain has done an incredible job of um iterating from um nfts to setting out a Grand Vision that's focused on supporting um novel def apps cool all right well and compliment to tun