UAE’s Rise as a Global Crypto Leader - TOKEN2049 Dubai 2025

Guys, we're going to talk about the rise of the UAE as a crypto hub. I know we only have a couple minutes, but I promise you we're going to make it insightful, interesting, and exciting because we have the dream team panel today. You know, I was Andrew introduced them, so I'm not going to go over them, but really Faisal Al Hammadi, of course the managing partner of Furder. One thing about Faisal you may not know, he just had his third kid. He has the kids 7, 4, and 3 months, so congratulations and thanks for being with us this week as well.

Matthew White, CEO of Vara. One thing about Matthew you may not know, this is what I love crypto. Before when he studied at university, he's a rocket scientist. I'm not kidding you, he was becoming a space engineer. So you go, all the paths lead to crypto.

Matt, great to have you with us. Henri Arslanian, of course the the CEO of Keza Middle East, who's by the way when he's not involved in crypto, he's a massive movie fan. What's your favorite movie? Departed. Departed, here we go, a good one on that side.

Well, let's jump right in guys. I want to I want to cover the I know many people in the audience are from out of town. They're probably wondering why Dubai, why crypto. As Andrew mentioned, we set up our hedge fund here. We're the first crypto hedge fund to get a license here.

You know, I want to start with you Vlad from your perspective for our audience on a business side, and then I want to move move to Matt to give the perspective of the regulator. As a from a business perspective, why Dubai? And why should people in the room even consider the UAE as a hub for to set up their crypto business? Thank you. That is one of the easier questions to to ask because it's uh it's something that we see every day.

When we looked at the when you look at any market, um and we're going to take the UAE as example, you're looking at size, regulatory clarity, ecosystem, and talent. Size, we know it's here. We know the market has a potential and it's a great market to be in if you're in crypto. This is a place where the the biggest traders are, the market makers are here, so it's a it makes complete sense. Uh regulatory clarity.

I'll let Matt maybe talk about it more, but it's one of the best places in the world where other markets have yet to figure that out how to regulate crypto, the UAE went ahead and regulated crypto in the most innovative fashion um and kept up with the innovation. So, and and credit to the team and and at VARA and and Matt and and the rest of the regulatory regimes here, they didn't just stop with the first iteration of regulation. They kept up and kept up with the industry and continued to innovate and also keep up with the regulations as we go along, which is very important in a very fast-moving industry. Um third, talent. I've been in this space for 5 years.

I can tell you 5 years ago finding talent in the crypto space was difficult here. Today, you're finding not only talent, you're finding experienced talent that operated in regulated platforms, custodians, uh insurance providers. So, it's much better and your access to talent is global. You're not limited to local talent as well. Um and the last piece, which brings it all together is this.

You now we're living in an ecosystem. Uh your office is next to my office. Uh Faisal has his own ecosystem in in in between Dubai and and Abu Dhabi. But really, everyone is is an hour away. The key people in this industry to meet, the key your key providers, infrastructure providers, partners are all within an hour away.

And this is the impressive result uh of all of that. So, yeah, I always give the example as my hedge fund, I'm 1-minute walk away from all your major counterparties, which is absolutely incredible. This is what you used to have back in the day in Mayfair in London or I don't know, in Midtown in New York. So, Matt, I want to move it to you uh from a regulatory perspective. First of all, thanks for being on stage.

In many in many jurisdictions, the regulators don't want to come on stage unless it's scripted and you know, what they're going to read a text. So, I really appreciate you came here on today with us to to share with our audience. Can you maybe share with our with the audience first, what is VARA's approach to crypto regulations and what they should know about how you guys are looking at regulating the space? Sure. Look, first of all, I just wanted to welcome everyone here to Dubai on on behalf of VARA.

I mean, the energy here is uh wow, you know, it's it's amazing. And and thank you for the introduction. I think rocket scientist is a slight exaggeration, but I'll go with it. It's good for me. I'll probably use that going going forward, I think.

Um To the moon, as we say. To the moon. Yeah. Um So, it's probably take a bit of a step back where where VARA's concerned. VARA is really just part of a a much bigger vision that Dubai has, um which we call the the D33 vision, which is all about um doubling the size of Dubai's economy by by 2033.

And one of the one of the key pillars of that is is new economies. Uh and one of those new economies was was was virtual assets. And right at the beginning, the uh the the the leadership had the vision to see that um uh the virtual asset sector globally was um was a was a huge opportunity. It was a it was a you know, fast-growing space, very very innovative. I think Ref had mentioned some of that already in terms of the the the kind of amount of talent that's in that space.

And one of the things that was required was um clarity and certainty around uh their their operations and and and what they were allowed to do and and what they weren't allowed to do. And so, VARA was was set up for that reason, to to act as a a catalyst, I suppose, for um for enabling Dubai to be a a virtual asset hub, um and giving a home to all of these entities that, you know, that want that clarity, they want that certainty, they want their investors to know that they've got uh that they've got that. So, that that's that's the backstory to to Varoom and why it was set up and we set out to regulate in a um you know, we have a very simple but quite bold vision which was to to not follow innovation but to sort of be infused by it or or or use innovation to actually shape the regulation that that we put in place. Um and that and that's essentially what we set out to do. So, we have a few fundamental parts to the to the regulatory framework.

I'm not going to run through all of it but um one is that it's principles based. So, um there is an amount of uh nuance that can be applied to different business models depending on how it works. We felt that was really really important because of the the fast-moving nature of the industry, um the the the sort of speed of innovation and the speed of change. And so, principles based was really really important for us. We chose to be product agnostic and technology agnostic.

Again, really really important. We didn't want to get bogged down with um you know, is this particular token an NFT? Is it a utility token? Is it something else? And we chose to be activity based as a result.

So, all that means is we have the broadest possible scope of regulatory perimeter. There's nothing that doesn't fall within that. Uh but we regulate on an activity base rather than a product base. So, if an entity comes to us and says, "Hey, we want to do X, Y, and Z." The first thing that we discuss is what activities are you doing?

Are you an exchange of some description? Are you a broker? Are you an asset manager? Um do you want to issue tokens? Um and so, that activity based piece is is a really really important component of of our framework.

But perhaps the most important piece is the approach that we that we took with the industry to to go about designing that and it was very much a partnership approach. So, we set out to really understand what was going on in the industry and learn about the types of the types of risks that existed in order to design the framework. So so our entities I think feel feel like they've got a voice. They feel like they they can contribute to shaping the regulations and that that's really been um uh how we've kind of built these from the from the ground up to be as tailored as possible to the industry and it also enables us to move you know, as quickly as possible. I don't I don't think it's we'll ever get to the point where we're ahead of the industry, but we'll be as close as possible to the industry in terms of our regulation, our framework, what we allow, what we don't, what the risks are, etc.

I love the fact it's principle-based and activity-based. And I mean that's I guess that's one of the reasons you have a lot of the big large companies now in crypto are all basically based here, which is quite impressive on that side. And maybe I'll face I'll move it to you because it'd be interesting if you can give to our audience I mean many people know doubt like you know, think all the big names in crypto they're all set up now here, right? And more and more there's a couple hundred companies literally waiting in line now for VARA. From your perspective, can you share maybe from your perspective what is also the the the other other key projects that happening in the country people may not be aware.

What's it from Abu Dhabi perspective as well I think to give them the full picture of the of the scene as well. Yeah, absolutely. So we spoke about some of the key companies that chose to be here, some of the key opinion leaders who are based in the UAE and the and why they're here. Let's also spend some time talking about bottom up what's being built here in the UAE within the space. One key project that was launched about 3 years ago was a large-scale Bitcoin mining company called ZeroTwo.

So the UAE has about 500 megawatts of Bitcoin mining and probably the largest here in the region. We have a partnership with a a called Marathon Digital which is a publicly listed company among top five miners globally who actively have shares in this JV and are part of building that that business. So, I think that's a good example of a company that came up kind of bottom-up. Second area that's uh worth mentioning is in the space of stablecoins. Um a lot of countries globally are looking to regulate stablecoins.

Uh the UAE, the the central bank, was among the first countries in the world to come up with an onshore stablecoin regime, which led to uh some of the banks in the UAE uh to start to adopt their own technologies, their partnerships to launch their own stablecoins. We're seeing a lot of activities in in that space, and I think within token token next year, we're going to see one live. Um a dirham stablecoin that could be used for use cases like uh cross-border payments or domestic payments. Um and I think the reason why that could work very well here is because the state-owned companies hold a lot of assets that could provide um the the volumes of transactions not in the UAE, but also in the neighboring countries in the world. If you own, for example, ports between the UAE and countries in Africa and Asia, you could tunnel a lot of that flow uh towards the the dirham stablecoin.

Yeah. And we see also a lot of uh commodity traders wanting to move to stable flows. Yeah. That's why I think I think for stablecoins, we'll probably see all the banks here as well have stablecoins by the end of the by the end of the year. And one thing actually uh which I think quite interesting as well, it's really the breadth of activities.

You know, many countries, maybe you can get your exchange regulator, asset manager here literally with your your issuing tokens, you're doing DeFi. There's always the regulatory the principal base is quite useful from that side. So, obviously, we have all the big players here. A lot of things I want to talk practically about some of the challenges as well. To be very objective because as UAE is great, yeah, as see there's a lot of traffic, but there's also practical challenges and actually like anywhere else.

From your perspective as somebody runs a business here, what are some of the challenges you're seeing we face? I'll classify both as a challenge and an opportunity. I think it's it's it's being addressed at the moment, but probably could be addressed faster. Which is we'd like to see innovation coming in in this sector from the UAE. I think the first phase was a lot of global platforms like ours moved here, established, which is great, but your third-party vendors or partners are global or non-UAE companies.

I think the startup scene in this industry is starting to flourish. Um and a lot of the good work like what the what Faisal is doing and and and his team is to start investing in founders in this ecosystem that can become successful companies in the crypto space. Yeah. Um so you should like your compliance provider should be a local company based out of here. Uh your trading solutions could be a company that comes out of here.

And I'm not only saying it like about people issuing tokens, more about the infrastructure that supports this industry. There's a lot of opportunity that can come out of here and they can address a global market out of here. Yeah. Um so we see this insurance is another space. Uh custody is another space.

It's great. We have the world's leading custodians, but you still can develop innovative wallet solutions, custody solutions as a founder from the UAE because the formula's here. Um and I think everything that you need is here. The investors are here, the regulators are here, the major partners are here. yeah.

So it's more about just encouraging more founders to set up in in this space. Um again, a lot of people are excited about obviously tokens and assets, but there's so much more behind the scenes of of what we do, what you do, um and what Faisal does to to build and and run this industry. And I think more founders in that space is is a good challenge. It's a good challenge to try to address. Yeah.

The other challenge is to be frank and and everyone comes in and says look banking. I don't think banking is a is a challenge. I think it's it's a topic of the past. Yes, if you ask me 4 years 5 years ago I'd say banking is a challenge. But actually and and I I'll say this proudly through our regulatory license with VARA we've managed to get the best banking solutions out there.

Yeah. So it's not that it it's it's a challenge. It's I think how to figure out how to go around banking. Um yes, there could be more I think players providing in this space. Yeah.

But I don't consider it that the top challenge. For me innovation investment in this space is probably that the next biggest opportunity. Yeah, because we see it happening in in other places around the world. It's interesting on the banking side. I mean a lot of firms end up like oh we're not able to get a bank account but I'm like yeah but you're not you're not you're running your business in a very crappy way.

But if you get a license you do proper things it gets easier on that side as well. But if I just want to know what's your on that on this specific point to mention because I know you guys are doing quite interesting things on on investing. And also if you can share about the the broader M&A activity and fundraising activity we're seeing in the region to to specifically to Refat's point of how the how that's being developed as well. So given that a lot of the key decision makers are based here, spend a lot of time here, naturally uh this has become a hotbed for deal making. Uh we know that some of the biggest uh transactions in crypto are being discussed or closed here.

Even this week some of the biggest deals are live being negotiated. Um last week we have announced that uh Zodia has acquired one of our portfolio companies called Tungsten. Uh and I think that's a great example of how a global player backed by Goldman Sachs Yeah. has acquired a company that's been built in the UAE. Yeah.

And we think there'll be a lot more um transactions coming to market. Uh we think that the UAE is well positioned to get our people here to uh find scenarios where there's a win-win scenario or partnerships. Um and I think we'll see a lot more announcements coming in the coming uh years. Interesting. And Michael, I want to move to you.

So, obviously, I think objectively speaking now, VARA is the regulator with the most crypto expertise globally, hands down. Of course, the fact that you guys are specialized on this helps quite a bit. How do you see now globally, let's say firms coming like let's say 5 years down the line, do you believe we'll start seeing some passporting or harmonization where like firms that are operating here can actually start operating globally and other regular regulators will start recognizing each other in in a crypto in a crypto perspective? Yeah, it's a good it's a good question, and I think uh look, so a lot of the conversations that we're starting to see now really are really exciting around this. I think we we've got to this inflection point um globally where uh most jurisdictions have recognized that um uh they need to provide some sort of clarity and and regulation around these types of businesses and and what they can and and can't do.

And and and really that that that final nail in the coffin, if you like, was the the sort of the US position on that that that has come about recently. So, I'll answer your question in two parts. There's a local element to that, and there's a there's a global element to that. So, obviously locally, it's really really important for uh for the UAE um to to have clarity on its entities to Dubai, regulates those entities in um sorry, VARA regulates those entities in Dubai. Um, but uh the Securities and Commodities Authority looks at the the rest of the UAE.

So, one of the things that we did uh or we worked really really hard on to start with is to make sure that clarity existed between the two. So, um the what what we did there was to sign an MOU with with ESCA, um which we which was completed fairly recently, um which uh allows, you know, the certainty that an entity that is licensed by VARA in Dubai can service UAE clients, right? That is there's no ambiguity around that now. That's really really clear. It's great.

And it it was a really important sort of starting point for that. But, in answer in answer to your question about it of passporting globally, I think we have to get there. We have to have these similar models that that that exist globally. So, one of the things that we're doing at the moment is really just trying to reach out to global regulators to have you know, those initial discussions. We're We're We're We're of the mindset that um we will share whatever information that that we can um to help uh help other regulators understand the risks first of all.

Um and and and for them to set up their own regimes. Um what that will then allow us to do is to establish a number of kind of key bilateral relationships that that that that we'll have in place. Um and eventually we'll get to the point, I think, where, you know, we'll we'll we'll have harmonization. Um what harmonization first, then maybe passporting coming up. yeah.

But, it it's you know, it's not just VARA driving this. The other regulators are driving this as well. So, I'm quite excited about the conversations that that we're having. I do think we'll get there. Um uh it's a matter of time.

I think the the the the the catalysts are there to make that happen. How you guys seen it in the crypto regulator circle? Do they see you as a crypto regulator, the the weird one that is there just focusing on it? Or like I mean, they taking your meetings, I presume, and everything. you'd have to ask them and what what they think.

Um we are you know, we're really proud of what we do. We're really proud of the expertise that that we've thought. Uh we we've got a fantastic team. I you know, I I um uh I think we've got some of the best talent Of course. uh that that exists in that in that space.

Um we we just want to be able to share that with with the other regulators at the moment. They are receptive, absolutely. I I think that's important. Um they they are reaching out. They're receptive to us and we'll share whatever we can.

We'll help them to the extent we can, and hopefully we'll get to some sort of harmonization. If there's a one message to a lot of the VASPs in the room, and one thing you wish they would do that they're not doing now when they're coming to VARA, when they're coming to buy, whether it's their applications, their approach, like what what's the one thing you wish people would do that they're not doing now? I I I that's that's two, actually. I think one is to just know that um VARA is a an engaging regulator. So, you know, we want to hear from you.

We want feedback. Um uh that that isn't always, you know, good feedback. We do get very good feedback, but, you know, I'm I'm quite willing to listen to all types of feedback. Um the second, you know, and we're getting into the nitty-gritty of it, but you you brought it up, so I'll mention it is take time on your application. Yeah.

I think that's that's the biggest challenge, I think, at the moment is the um the the the there's a a significant variation in quality of applications that we that we see. Yeah. Um and that is normally what slows slows the process down. Yeah. Um so, quality is really really important.

We're not, you know, we're not compromising on that. So, you know, please make sure that that that is up to standard. It's a very diplomatic way, but I can tell you as somebody who loved the regulator, if you think you're going to come to Dubai or the UAE and this is a easy die coke thing, you're going to come and set up a business, honestly, we don't want you here. Go back, right? But if you want to come set up proper businesses, be regulated, be institutional, build proper businesses, and build the finance of the future, we're interested.

And this is how we're building the ecosystem, right? That's the way. By the way, for maybe as a guide, cuz I know that I'm getting asked this question 10 times a day now, I just put on my LinkedIn this morning a guide of crypto licensing in the UAE VARA versus ADGM, so you have this information uh cuz I know everybody's asking that question as being here as well. So, but again, I think that's an important message that people are doing it properly. But this is not like a place you come and you set up and nobody asks questions, right?

Like uh unfortunately, I do used to be off on the perspective people had. Actually, that's a good point on on misconception. I'll ask it to you, Faisal, and to you as well. Like, what is the biggest misconception you think people have, especially in crypto, about the UAE? And I I'll bring it to you after, Faisal, on the same question question.

Maybe just not the UAE in general. I think it's it's a broader misconception that TradFi businesses do not want to get into crypto. I think that's changing dramatically in a very fast-paced way. Uh firms that have I mean I think this venue hosts another event in a couple of weeks at Dubai Financial Market events. A lot of the discussions there are happening about how do we enter crypto as a as a normal TradFi business, as a normal family office.

We want to allocate some of our balance sheet to put it on on in digital assets. Um so that was I wouldn't say was not happening 5 years ago, but it's now happening and people are looking to exchanges and asking the right questions. Uh not just um like how do I onboard? What's your custody like? What are your trading platforms like?

What is your on-chain analysis? What's your transaction monitoring? They're looking at these things from the outside and like so let me put it this way. There's a misconception that TradFi does not understand crypto. They do understand crypto and they're trying to understand it more.

And it's up to us to explain and showcase that this is an actually a in my opinion, a better more technologically savvy industry than the current TradFi system. So the bridge between the two is needed and then has to then has to come and it's it's actually coming. Uh we're working with partners that I mean to provide for example to provide custody with Standard Chartered. That gives a business on the side uh more confidence to say, "Look, these guys are offering these solutions around custody, not just the normal custody solution because think about this way. You're a TradFi business, you have your own internal audit teams, you have your own risk teams, you have your compliance teams.

They're asking their business teams these questions, but now we can answer them and we can answer them and say, "Look, regulated, we offer you the right products, the right solutions, um and some transparency." Uh so I think that misconception that there is a lot of people on the side, I think that's that's wrong. I think people are watching and figuring out when to enter at the right moment. Yeah, in many countries uh you're in the UK, it's good. You know, we don't there's not much pressure here.

I mean, regulators are way more knowledgeable than you are in crypto, right? So, as a financial institution, you have to be on top of it. But, I will ask you from your perspective on the misconception. I mean, you've seen many companies come here, pitch when you set up. What's the biggest misconception you think they have about about our country?

So, I would like to double down on what you both said, where people think, you know, this is a good place for short-term. Yeah. And not practically long-term. But, also, people don't understand at what pace our banks looking to evolve and adapt. And I think it's not only that, but also looking at the amount of investment firms, hedge funds that crypto or not, who chose to be in Dubai or the UAE.

Which means that the demand size is also here. So, if you have the right regulations, if you have the right participants in terms of demand, and the right capabilities from companies like companies like OKX, then you have the full ingredients for success. So, it's not just So, it's not just the retail and demand. It's not just the the the speculation. Yeah.

It's actually real demand by real institutions that are being built here. And I encourage people to reach out to these players cuz some of them called Dubai and the UAE their home to learn more about what they're doing. And what what you wish they would do more that they're not doing now? If there's one piece of advice for these firms coming to the UAE. Spend another week.

So, I know this week is intense. This week is so intense with activities where it's difficult to absorb and adapt. I remember by Tuesday night, I thought it was Thursday already. I was like, no, no, there's another 3 days to go to the week. So, I think for for people who do stay a bit longer to basically be able to absorb what they've learned and be able to engage with other players.

We're always here to to support and engage. Yeah. But, I want to just move to you. Obviously, as VARA, I'm convinced other regulators now around the world or other jurisdictions are looking at the VARA model saying, is this something we should explore as well. From your perspective, what was the most difficult thing when setting up a crypto regulator?

Like, what is the biggest challenge as CEO of VARA you find on the day-to-day? Oh, that's an easy question. Talent. Talent, really? It was really hard to find the the the right people to to do this.

Um You think about what you really need to be able to understand the um the the technology to start with, actually. I as a I I remember um I can't remember where it came from, but there was a quote that that that someone said to to understand Bitcoin, you need degrees in technology, politics, philosophy, and economics, or whatever. And I think I I don't think that's too far from the truth. And and so we've had to assemble a team that that has technology experience, um regulation experience, financial crime experience, traditional finance experience. Um and it's really hard.

And it takes time. Um and uh in some cases we've we've had to resort you know, we've resorted to actually training people now. And we're looking at things like licensing and supervision. If we're bringing people in, we're ending up we're we're we're training them from a from a young place because the the those people don't exist in the market at the moment. So, talent talent is definitely the the hardest Yeah, I was going to talk to Is it a problem you guys see that as well as an exchange?

Or is it easy for people to move here uh for from other places? It's it it's switched. Um 4 years ago I'd say 100% there was an talent issue. Talent, yeah. Talent.

Um because it's also it's a new industry and people started to get experience. Today it's quite the opposite. Um even internally at our okay, people want to move to the UAE. They're voluntarily saying, "I want to move to the UAE." Uh before our talent pool was what we can find in the market.

But the people of the team that we have today is is most of them comes in from other regulated platforms, other regulated exchange, other regulated markets. So, they're bringing in that expertise. Um and it's drastically improved. Um and there is a lot of work that's being done to encourage like to encourage talent to move here. The UAE is a very welcoming space for for anyone.

So I think that's not the issue. Just issue finding enough demand to to hire that talent. Um and I want to credit like yourself as well. You do a lot of advocacy on behalf of the ecosystem here that sends out this image for talent from from abroad that this is the place to move in and and actually start working in crypto. So that's why I echo my first point.

It's not only talent, but also founders and startups to start coming here and develop this ecosystem further. So it's not a challenge as it used to be. It's a much better much better place and it's continuously growing into a bigger talent pool. Yeah, and I think now Dubai UAE has become an interesting place. People want to move here, right?

Yeah. For I don't know what's what's driving that. Everything else has brought people now people want to move here. That's come easier from that perspective. as well.

Is that probably what you're seeing as well Faisal with your company as well? Is talent is also a challenge with some of the companies you're you're you're involved in? I think we've been fortunate that that hasn't been a challenge so far. I think it got much easier over time. We have people who moved from the US, UK, Asia to the UAE and I would say that it's been pretty okay.

I don't see it as a big challenge. Good. No, I think it's improved quite a bit. I still believe and I repeat this every time. I think it's the one of the best places in the world that an entrepreneur to run a crypto business where you have the ecosystem, you have the infrastructure, time zone wise, you have a regulator at least wants to talk to you, who don't want to listen to you, takes feedback.

Uh you know, you know, I moderate many regulators over the years and rarely they want to come on stage like this and they're happy to be asked anything. You know, they want to be scripted. I mean kudos to Varol on that point and and the gym does the similar stuff. It really kudos on that side as well uh Matt. Guys, we have a really a couple minutes left.

I just want to go my my my best friend the bell is here with me. So I'm going to ask you guys quick questions. I need one or two word answers and uh we're going to we're going to we're going to go and roll. You guys are ready? Let's do it.

Even if you're not ready, I'm going to still going to do it. So, I might as well uh Sorry. I'm going to start slow, so don't worry. Um We're in the UAE. What's your favorite thing about the UAE?

We should have started from you. Favorite thing about the UAE? That's the toughest question. There's a lot of favorite things. People.

People, wow. That's Uh the vibe. Vibe, here we go. My God. The beach.

The beach, of course. Oh, that's where I'll be on Sunday. I guarantee you that. But let me start for you. Wait, there's one thing you would like to see improved in the UAE, what would it be?

Traffic. Traffic, yeah. Easy one, right? This week it was particularly bad, I have to say, around the venue just because of the of the number of people coming here. Yeah, I would have I would have said traffic.

Traffic as well, huh? Yeah. So, don't even ask. Same. Same.

But there's a plan. To be fair, there's a actually A lot of work The plans here are done pretty quickly, which is good. Um If you're not in crypto, what's the one industry you would want to be in? Faisal. Filmmaking.

Filming, yeah. What kind of movies do you want to make? Let me think about that. Okay. All right, can I go a different way?

Matt. Well, I I I have to say engineering now, don't I? You You've classified me as a rocket scientist, so I uh But but you didn't study You didn't study uh I studied aerospace engineering. Space engineering, it was not uh it's not going to be wrong. Faisal.

I'd say uh health care. That's where I started. I think about health management and human health and technology and data. That world fits me. If there's one thing you would like to see the community in crypto do more, what's the one thing you would like to see our community in crypto do more?

Faisal. Maybe do less. Uh party less. Party less. Wise words for a Token 2049 uh side events.

Matt. More of these. More events. Innovate. Innovate, here we go.

Um This is an interesting one. Donald Trump gives you a call and puts you on his crypto advisory committee. What's the one thing you tell him? Who are you starting with me? Yeah.

I'll never let him sit next to me in any more panel that is done. I'm happy where I am. You what? You're happy where I am? Matt, this is a tricky one.

Talk to Vara. TALK TO VARA. MAN, I WOULD LOVE TO BE IN THAT ROOM of uh meeting Faisal. Smile and nod. Hey guys, to finish it off, my last question anybody comes to my show is my my traditional question.

Faisal, let me start from you. Uh if you could have lunch or dinner with one person dead or alive, lunch or dinner with one person dead or alive, who would you have lunch or dinner with? Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett, here we go. Matt.

Uh I'm going to go with Einstein today. Albert Einstein. Here you go. See, the rocket science element comes back. And to finish it off, you know, at our Token 2049 the panel of the rise of UAE as a crypto hub, who would you have lunch or dinner with?

I mean I mean Michael Schumacher. Michael Schumacher. Wow. My God. Talk about an F1 team with OKX, here we go.

Plug that in as well. Here we go, guys. Thank you very much. That was the panel. Thank you very much.

Have a great day.