The Crypto Endgame - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2025

All right, guys. I am very excited because we are totally unscripted, no preparation, none of like the, you know, Google Doc with all the questions. I have three absolute chads with me. These guys are media trained, they need no prep. We are actually going to brainstorm and think about, you know, WTF is going to be the crypto end game.

I was I was trying to tell them, let's think about 2050, and they were like, 2050, like by 2030, we're already at the end game. These guys think, you know, the world is moving at a very high pace. So, I'm I'm kind of curious and excited to start getting their thoughts. Um, you know, you guys need no introduction, but maybe like a very, very quick one, and then we'll get into it. I'm a boomer Bitcoin maxi.

Bitcoin maxi. Oudi Oudi Wertheimer is my name. Um, I'm also CEO and customer support for Dapper Wizards. Woo. Uh, my name is Mert.

I am the CEO of Helium Mobile, and I post on the internet about Solana and Zcash. Alex Ged. I'm a I'm Alex Ged. I uh run a project called Post Fiat, and I post about uh Doom, and generally Doom posts a lot, yeah. Okay, so we have Bitcoin maxi with sunglasses.

We have uh super smart bald guy. I don't know exactly what Mert is. And we have AI king. So, guys, let's let's start with, you know, the easy one. The easy one is financial markets.

Obviously, you know, DeFi, crypto, this is kind of the the main fit that has been found already. If we look at the crypto end game, obviously, financial markets, we're seeing a lot of stocks start to come on chain. We're seeing a lot of, you know, money markets, a lot of different things. Uh, maybe Mert, kick us off. Like, what do you think is the end game for financial markets and financial trading on chain?

The end game for financial markets, well, probably depends on the time horizon, but I think we're slowly

Five years. Five years. Five years? Okay.

Five years. Oh, man, that that's going to be tough. Uh, CT has the attention span of like 18 seconds. Um, well,

to do 30 years. I did. Um, I don't think I'll be around. I I would say like, I mean, not to, you know, obviously a little biased, but I think, you know, with Solana, what we say is internet capital markets, and the idea of how financial markets will evolve is well, you you look at it, first of all, what did the internet do to information, right? It made information more connected.

Before, you had to, let's say, to communicate, you had to write letters, uh you had to travel uh physically to do your shopping. Um, and the internet connected all the words in world's information, and then social media connected the world's people. And what with crypto, basically, what you're doing is you're turning information into value, right? And so, you're bringing finance onto internet scale, right? All these new things that we have, you know, smartwatches, uh AI, LLMs, all these things are in the internet age, but finance has been relatively stuck in like this weird hybrid between the internet, but also like antiquated systems.

And so, now, when you increase the connectivity of value, you start getting some interesting like things that are considered bad, so like the speculative nature, right? The the narratives dominate everything else. Uh, but then you also get um things like, you know, increased access to markets, uh bigger markets, right? Just with an internet connection, if you're a kid in Bangladesh, you can make the same investments as somebody with uh a trust fund in New York City, right? So, Do you think we're going to have, you know, KYC type things like a Robinhood chain, and that's where everything's going to be happening?

Or is it going to be like uh, you know, Solana or something else that is just non-KYC, anybody, the the kid in Bangladesh is, you know, flipping stocks. Like, what what do you think is actually going to have the liquidity in transactions? Yeah, I mean, I think like there there's no way around compliance and KYC certain like things. So, I mean, the US is the most dominant capital market in the world, and they do have very strict laws, right? And so, those will always, I think, be the Pareto efficient like 80% of the trading, let's say.

Uh, but so, there's something like Xstocks on Solana today, where like to buy the stock itself, you might need to KYC, but once you actually buy the stock and it's on chain, you can actually swap it on Jupiter with no KYC.

Maybe to mint, but then, you know, once it's minted, it moves around. Yeah. Oudi, what do you think is going to be the role of Bitcoin? I mean, I know the Bitcoin maxis think that you're going to throw everything else away, and you want to buy coffee, you're going to have to chip off a bit of Bitcoin. But what do you think is going to be the end game?

Like, five years from now, what is Bitcoin's role? Yeah, I I don't think that. Um, you know, there's um I'm I think I've been I think I'm the most mentally ill person on the panel, because I think I've been in crypto for the longest. So, um what I if I'm trying to like predict, the way I do this is I just try to think about how I would have predicted things five years ago. And it would have been pretty bad.

Um, but the I think what you tend to see with crypto, if you stick around for a long enough time, is that we we all have these narratives that we're really sure of, and it almost never happens in that way at all. The the two things that I think really proved themselves undeniably are Bitcoin and stablecoins. I think no one can argue with that, and everything else is very speculative.

let's, you know, let's extrapolate. Obviously, Bitcoin has gotten much more important over the last years.

Yeah. But like, how important can it get? Like, does it So, the big thing I think the big thing that um and some people So, with Bitcoin, people always tend to rush. So, when when you when when people used to make the predictions five years ago, they would be like, yeah, you know, like the United States is going to adopt Bitcoin next year. Which, of course, was completely unrealistic.

But I think if we're talking about five years from now, we might actually start seeing major, you know, countries like the United States implementing a national reserve of Bitcoin. I think in five years, this finally becomes

Is it going to back Is it going to back the currency? Like, is it going to be like some kind of backing, or is it just going to be a separate thing? What if What if AOC is president? Then then it's over. Well, that's So, we have four years, and in the fifth year, somewhere someone replaces her, and we start the the thing.

I I think that's actually finally no longer crazy. Okay. It sounds to me like the maybe five years is not enough for the Bitcoin end game. That might take even longer to play out. Uh, Alex, let's also bring in the role of fiat currency.

Obviously, capitalism is evolving. And let's think a little bit, you know, the role of crypto in in capitalism. What do you think is going to be the role of crypto and fiat battling? Like, is this going to come to like a world war at some point? I think what will happen if we're versus that, you know, I went to this really interesting conference in the Bahamas, and I was expecting it to be a very run-of-the-mill conference, where there's some big ideas and no implementation.

I think people in crypto are generally unaware the extent to which governments are about to implement central bank digital currencies for the purpose of monetary sovereignty. They're seeing Tether and the adoption of US dollar stablecoins as a threat to their sovereignty. They say, okay, well, I'm worried that I'm not going to have control over my own currency. I'm worried that people in emerging areas are not going to be able to uh save in the local currency, and they're just going to have Tether on their wallet. And so, I think what's going to happen is that there's going to be this initial period, where everyone implements CBDCs, all corporate assets and liabilities come on representative chains, like the BOE will have its own smart contract system bolted onto its CBDC.

I think you'll hear that in 2026, and I think there'll be a period of synergy, where the European corporates are issuing debts, uh issuing debt, and that debt is being traded on on protocols like, you know, Canton, for example, that will have represented tokenized assets. And at first, what it'll be very similar to what it is right now, where essentially, the US is very much pushing a unregulated uh crypto environment. The Europeans will be operating on central bank digital currencies, as well as the as well as India, uh and there'll be initial synergy. Now, down the road, there's going to come conflict, when there's uh debt problems. Like, when you have the first emerging markets country like mass adopt stablecoins, and then there's a blowup of their, you know, fiscal situation, then I think you're going to start having more material discussions.

But we're I think we're like 300 billion dollars or 500 billion dollars of stablecoin supply away from that, and then it's like Kumbaya until then. Mert, how do you think about, you know, capitalism and the role of crypto looking forward? Yeah, I think one of the takes I have on this is that we've messaged crypto in the wrong way. So, we said, you know, there's Web 1, Web 2, and then Web 3, but I think the more interesting framing is that there's capitalism 1.0, and then there's capitalism 2.

0, and crypto is what evolves capitalism, right? And and if you think about, you know, what what are some of the things that makes capitalism good? Well, it's like, as the name suggests, obviously, frictionless capital is capital flows, which open trade, free markets, the enforcement of property contract rights, uh increased competition, uh uh better access to these different assets, um and and the concentration of those markets to actually converge on truth. And with crypto, it literally solves every single one of those problems. Um, the the one thing that I think we've slept on pretty drastically, and it ties into Alex's point, is around CBDCs indirectly, but privacy much more directly, right?

I think roughly, there's in my view, there's three super important missions in crypto. Uh, one is a store of value, and I think Bitcoin is obviously the king of that. Number two is going to be just markets, capitalism, etc. I think, you know, Solana, Hyperliquid, and and and you know, there's other chains um are doing very well in actually bringing those markets, making them faster. But then three is going to be privacy, right?

Like, you can't have a world where um you're just broadcasting your entire financial life on chain for everybody else to see and for it to be there for everybody to judge you on perpetually going to the future, right? It's like cancel culture with social media, except now it's cancel culture with all of your money. And so, there needs to be some re-channeled focus on privacy, whether you know, that's with technologies like FHE, um ZK, like Zcash, um and you know, just just better um you know, things like Tornado Cash, right? And and you can see all these big players like Paradigm, Dragonfly, etc., Solana, Ethereum Foundation funding like the defense of these guys cuz it's going to be extremely important.

And without that, um I think even in a world where crypto does succeed and and privacy doesn't, you're going to have some serious problems. Yeah. Um Udi, before we move to AI, a little bit more about this like capitalism side, do you think that Bitcoin will start changing the form of capitalism in terms of government debt or um we talked a little bit about, you know, Europe might do this, US might do that. Obviously, China is its own uh superpower now. Is there like a a tug-of-war where you see the you know, crypto kind of being a weapon in in these like financial wars?

Yeah, you know, uh I think it's I think it's already getting there. Um you know, if we're talking about capital markets, what's the most valuable public crypto company? It's it's it's Saylor's MicroStrategy. It's not Coinbase. It's not Circle.

Um it's MicroStrategy. It developed like this completely new um financial scheme to acquire Bitcoin. And um it is actually just today they announced they do have I think a lot of people are not paying attention to it. They do have like their own semi-stable coin that is traded on on the on the capital markets. It's called Stretch.

And they do it by um adjusting the interest rates to to match uh supply and demand. Uh they announced an increase in the uh interest rate, I think, yesterday. Um they are essentially building a central bank that is built on Bitcoin instead of nothing. Um and it's actually working pretty well so far. And I I can definitely again, you know, I can definitely see nation-states eventually adopting the same the same idea.

I think it's really interesting. The biggest company that is public in this space, all it does is buying Bitcoin, which is which is pretty crazy. Yeah.

I think we'll see more of that. Okay. Let's let's kind of, you know, put some AI into the pot because obviously that's evolving at a speed that is hard to keep up with. And if we're looking at an endgame, there's not going to be a world where that's not a big part of it. Alex, I mean, this is something that you you go on these epic, you know, crypto uh Twitter rants about about the role of AI and and how crypto might play a role.

Obviously, the social fabric might change a lot. We're seeing the the younger generation grow up in a world where, you know, a lot of the things are done automatically. Maybe, you know, there's a lot of hyper gambling. Um the role of people and their job is not going to be an identity anymore. Give us some of your first thoughts on like what that endgame looks like.

Yeah, I think um maybe something that people are under-appreciating uh with some of these new stablecoin launches, whether that's Cloudflare or Tempest, um you know, a lot of the future stablecoin demand has API-rich uh systems that allow agents to pay users for services. Um and so, the future which is envisioned, and this is not just me saying this, this is, you know, the CEO of Coinbase, the future is essentially, if we believe in AGI, if we believe that basically AI entities are going to become more intelligent and more capable than people and have, you know, long-running agentic capabilities. I don't know if you saw like Claude's Sonnet 4.5 can work for 30 hours straight. Right?

So, if you have agents that have bank accounts that are pseudo unbanked entities, and these agents are very very intelligent, the logical configuration of the economy is actually agents paying humans for work. And the API layers that are being built by all these stablecoin companies are directly facilitating that. And the venture dollars that are pouring into it are heavily from AI-native funds. So, you know, when when a16z or another big fund will back one of these protocols or Matt Walsh, you know, he he he made all his money on uh and Anthropic are now the dominant traded uh kind of capital asset. And so, going forward, I think you're going to see just a totally drastic shift.

And I believe that that's going to be essentially like what you're going to see is a lot of different permutations of society looking like a Fiverr. Like, you're basically going to see a bunch of people running around and doing what AI agents say. I think there's like a second

like, let's say uh we had all these little toys, AI x BT Twitter accounts that they could maybe like sometimes tip some money to people. Are you envisioning a world in which people are getting paid by AIs that are programmed? And there I don't want to call them digital slaves, but they have like their boss is an AI that's sort of paying them to do stuff. Is Is that where this is going? I think so.

I think like an interesting example would be like Mert and Zcash, right? So, you know, like a a sophisticated AI agent would not just be able to identify a news flow. It'd be able to identify that Mert has a strong follower account and a distribution channel which Zcash lacks, and then combine those two elements into a a cohesive whole. And then it would basically take a huge position in Zcash and then go to Mert and say, "Hey, you know, I basically want you to CTO this coin." Right?

I I think that's like the emergent capability that's going to arise. And I think people are unready like yeah, I think these the initial crypto bull run like just wasn't at all representative of of the level of agentic capability that's coming. And I think everyone lost a lot of money on it actually. I think like everyone dreamed the dream with a16z or everyone dreamed the dream with like AI x BT and then we're like, "Wait a second, like it's just a chatbot. This this feels really bad, man."

So, I think it's like we're still I think 2025 and 2026 are just the beginning of emergent AI, even generative media capabilities. Um Yeah. Yeah. Let's I mean, Mert, apart from, you know, this scary world where the AI overlords are just paying people, let's just think about the obvious thing that will happen, which is agents paying each other. I mean, there will be a ton of agent-to-agent payments.

Have you thought a lot about the kind of infrastructure that it will take to support incredibly large amount of tiny, you know, micro payments? And is it going to be supported by any kind of the of the blockchains that we have or is it, you know, you kind of throw the decentralization out and then you just build a very centralized uh kind of, you know, ledger system for all these agents? What do you think? Well, I think in terms of agentic payments, so there's a few interesting new developments. There's the 402 protocol by Coinbase, which is where uh I mean, it's an HTTP standard where you can uh without creating an account with a website, you can actually communicate via the web, like the HTTP interface, um via just an API call, and you can make the payment directly.

And so, these things um the the first version or or or the previous version of the internet basically looks like these walled gardens where you have to like authenticate and do all these different things, create an account, give them your email, your, you know, social insurance number, you know, your dog's name, all this stuff. But now, you just give them like, I don't know, 1 cent of some coin, and then the robots do the talking. And so, that's going to be interesting in enabling new use cases. Um as far as the infrastructure goes, I mean, I don't want to bore people too much. Um but like, so Cloudflare, so this Alex mentioned it, but I think the Cloudflare news really went under notice.

Uh like you've seen all these different teams like Coinbase, Shopify, uh even like, you know, OpenAI with Worldcoin and stuff talk about integrating crypto, even like Brex, Ramp, etc. But I think the much more interesting one and and perhaps the most interesting one so far is Cloudflare, right? Because it's very obvious for like a company like Stripe and and and and, you know, these exchanges, Robinhood, financial companies to integrate crypto. What's not interest or obvious is that Cloudflare is how the entire internet works today. Right?

Like, um literally, whenever you make a call to any website, it is protected by Cloudflare. The entire internet runs on Cloudflare. So, if they're actually now integrating crypto infrastructure, stablecoins, um that's going to fundamentally change um how interactions on the internet are done, but also it shows you uh it's it's a signal into showing you that the very very serious people are now actually interested in crypto versus seeing it seeing it as like this, you know, silly speculative game. Um and then, you know, for to answer your actual question, um today certainly you can uh do microtransactions at scale depending on your architecture. Um you can certainly do it on Solana.

You can do it on various L2s. Uh you can you can probably do it on Hyperliquid. Um I mean, really the only thing you probably can't do it on is going to be like Cardano. Uh and so, uh so sorry any Cardano fans. Not not really.

But, um uh it's it's you you can already be seeing

I mean, we're talking about like, you know, 100,000 transactions a second as like a, you know, theoretical limit. If it's just agents going crazy at each other all the time and okay, you, you know, you show this tweet, I need to pay you 5 cents and then do we need something that, you know, maybe is is a completely different scale than than what we have now? Um I I do think that world where it's all like the internet and and crypto is fully run by AI agents, I think it is coming, but I do think people um are are thinking too near-term. I do think it's going to take much longer. Um

It's the end game. It's the crypto end game. So, we'll see.

5 years at the very least.

least. Okay. Um Udi, let's talk about, you know, income inequality, UBI, these kind of topics cuz, you know, I've been tracking this stuff for a long time and it feels inevitable to me that income inequality keeps going up. Bitcoin doesn't solve that, you know. In In fact, you know, it kind of worsens it because people can just huddle their way up to riches if they have enough early on.

There's going to be a lot of new, you know, billionaires and overlords that are kind of able to uh develop the new AI tools. What do you think crypto's role is going to be? Do you believe in something like digital UBI through, I mean, you know, Worldcoin is one of many imaginations of this. But, like, what do you think it could look like when we have to redistribute? I'm going to be a little bit bearish.

Uh I think I think everything um I think everything in the intersection of AI and crypto is ages too early. Um like, I think it's way too early to think about. I know we're talking about the end game. I think that it's the And the reason for that is not because AI is not advancing quickly. It is advancing very quickly.

It is because it's advancing so quickly. We're not going to Anyone who's building solutions today um is going to be relevant in a week. Um the the, you know, I I I think we're I think we're just not um that's not the game that we are likely to have an advantage in as as the crypto industry, in my opinion. Not not yet. Probably later.

Um We're seeing like massive countries, even like India, you know, which is a very huge amount of people, chaotic, but they're already getting their stuff together. Everyone's getting all these, you know, digital IDs, all this stuff kind of sorted out. Do you not see that, you know, before too long that'll be some distribution mechanism using maybe some digital currency or some form of it. You mentioned CBDCs, but do we not sort of start air-dropping? I think everything, yeah, look, I think everything is going to be digitized.

I'm not sure how much of it is actually going to use crypto stuff. At the end of the day, if it's issued by a government uh or state, I'm not sure that's necessary. I think that, you know, every few years, every cycle we go through this um process where governments realize that actually crypto probably doesn't give them much except except with where it comes to capital markets. So, yes, crypto can be very good in that. Um but, when people start talking about, "Hey, digital IDs on the blockchain.

Hey, maybe we're going to, you know, issue our own currency." That doesn't necessarily make sense. Um But, you know, we'll see. I I'd love to be proven wrong this time. But, so far I I kind of doubt it.

And and but, I think, you know, the the other side to that is that um I think we're in a in this kind of pretty fortunate position where everything in crypto and in Bitcoin, but really in crypto is shifting a lot politically in the last couple of years. And luckily, we can use AI as a tool to get ahead. I'm not even thinking about how crypto can improve AI. I'm thinking about how AI can improve my business. And I think governments will be thinking about how AI can improve their, you know, programs more in the planning stage and the implementation stage than actual, you know, how can we use crypto integrate with that?

I think that's for later. But, I mean, you know, I believe very strongly that, you know, even in the crypto industry, I think a lot of both individuals and businesses are kind of about to be sidelined by Bitcoin. I think we're getting into this moment where things are going to go really exponential because I think it's getting ready for nation-states because I think that a lot of old holders are selling and sold, so that sets us up for, you know, a more explosive move. Yeah. Which means that in my opinion, everyone should be thinking about, "How do I get more Bitcoin before that happens?"

And AI is a great tool to help you do that. Because because everything is changing right now, we're not thinking that fast, right? Like, if you think back to, I don't know, 2 years ago, what the

you get more Bitcoin? You just So, you go to ChatGPT and say like, "Hey, how do I get some Bitcoin?" So, 2 years ago, I mean, that's a good start and people are doing that pretty well. But, like, two two years ago, the world as it as it relates to crypto and Bitcoin was completely different. All the strategies that all of us had are basically irrelevant now because everything changed.

Um AI is really good at coming up with completely new ideas and completely new even brainstorming and coming up with completely new strategies and planning. Um so, I would say instead of like, "Hey, let's figure out how to integrate crypto into that." Let's do what most of the world is doing, which is take that intelligence and use it um before everyone else figures out they can do that. Yeah. Alex, I mean, you've, you know, sometimes I I've been reading your your posts and you you kind of paint a lot of dystopian futures with a lot of government control.

And the reality is, when there's a lot of change and people get very scared, um they're usually happy to let the government take a lot of control because they they want someone to step in. Uh they don't know what's going on. I can see a couple different scenarios. Like, one is crypto is the escape is the escape hatch and you get these network state type of, you know, different organizations, different different ways of thinking about uh a community or collective that are digital. And that's maybe an escape from crypto.

Or the government sort of takes over the crypto and, you know, the things you mentioned about privacy and control, that starts to fall within the government purview. What What do you think is is most likely? Is crypto an escape hatch or is crypto just getting taken over? I think uh back when Biden was in charge, it was very much an escape hatch. And I think that was reflected in a lot of crypto asset prices.

Uh and now I think the system is very much adopting crypto at every level of the government uh in the United States. And so, I think you're going to have a mirror of the existing kind of policy where essentially, in the rest of the world, everybody complies with uh you know, with rules, but the US doesn't. Right? And so, similarly, the US has the US dollar stablecoin balances. And they're the ones who are going to be like pro-privacy.

The US is going to be the one who's like pro-free speech. And Europe is going to be like, "No, no, no, no, no. I don't want any of that in European Union. I don't want flights from my bank." So, I think the reality is that you can't put this back in the drawer.

I think, you know, the Trump administration has made it very very clear that they want crypto to be part of the government. And I think some of the bipartisan votes uh have made it also clear that it's probably going to last longer than 4 years. So, my opinion is that it's not an escape hatch. It's part of the government. And in so far as there's value in fixed value assets, it's kind of kind it's kind of the government implicitly saying like, "You know what, guys?

Like, we're not going to be able to make this up via taxation. And we're probably going to print money. So, maybe you should invest in some Bitcoin." Yeah. All right, I'm going to ask one more question and then we'll end up with one bold prediction from each of our panelists.

I know you already have one uh Udi, but maybe the other two can start thinking in the background. Mert, I want to talk a little bit about this like hyper-financialization, hyper-gambling. Obviously, you know, you've you've lived it with Solana being kind of like the meme coin explosion capital. And if anything, we're seeing that this trend, you know, while it does go into cycles and the form of it changes, if we think about, you know, 5, 10 years from now, I personally have never seen speculation go away. In fact, this trend is accelerating.

What kind of end game do you might see? And is this like very unhealthy for young people? Like, what are your thoughts in terms of like extrapolating, you know, the meme coin mania into another 5 years of just, you know, people hyper-gambling? What does that do? Very easy question.

Um well, I would say it's going to be quite similar to social media, right? Uh there's all this controversy and and polarization around, "Okay, is social media actually good?" And it's like, you know, it might be bad for kids because they get envious and, you know, they think their life sucks comparatively. Uh however, it does connect people as well, right? So, like, it's it's wrong to say it's fully bad.

It does increase the amount of access to information in the world and it connects some people and perhaps makes you know isolated people feel less isolated. So it it it it really amplifies certain aspects of human behavior and I will say I think and people always say and I think this is kind of a controversial take. People think this like new hyper gambling thing is because you know the governments are just poorer and they're all you know printing money and stuff and that's true to an extent and you know they they'll say like well this is your only chance to escape the permanent underclass. I do think like that has certainly gotten worse over time but again I do think everything can be explained very simply from a technical lens which is to say that again the internet connected information which led to social media and and and and you know software industries rising and crypto just turns information into value which is to say it just increases the connectivity of value around the world and in a connected system what happens is

that you know because they're building better highways you know people just go faster they just like a natural result of the infrastructure? It's it's like a good analogy is like something like COVID right for example before airplanes if there was like an event like COVID where somebody got sick in some market since they're not going to fly anywhere else it's just going to stay local nothing is going to happen. However if those people are now using airplanes to spread all over the world and then let's say it gets one of these CEO sick and then it starts shutting everything down then the thing that's spreading the fastest makes the biggest impact and everything is suddenly affected in an increasingly connected world. It's the same thing with crypto and markets where you know you saw I don't know if you guys remember where Bloomberg published like this wrong quote about what Trump was going to do with China and the markets tanked and then when the Bloomberg guys you know said something like they struck a deal there was 2.5 trillion added to the global markets in 10 seconds based on a typo and then it turned out that it was actually a fake quote and so nothing happened.

I see. So I made a tweet like okay this is try to fire is basically just meme coins but with suits and the the thing that I'm trying to get at there is that now narratives are going to dominate because news and rumors spread much faster than fundamentals and so now you can put your money where your mouth is right away and so that leads to a lot of these distortions and why is crypto always been very speculative in nature that's never going to go away. I do think the youth and everybody else will have to start you know building defense against it otherwise you know it's high ops by like Mossad like Udi so. I mean the the overload of like dopamine adrenaline addiction all this stuff you know I think we're going to as a society have to tackle this. All right we have a couple minutes left I want to get quick prediction 10 years from now what's something like very bold that might happen?

Udi? Yeah look people are not looking at this. I think in much less than 10 years five four three the second biggest cryptocurrency after Bitcoin is going to be MicroStrategy. What's going to happen to Ethereum? It's not going to be the second biggest anymore.

It's not going to be the second biggest I'm going to start off I think. I'll come back on in a second you will not be able to catch up to the amount of Bitcoin they own. So just because

Okay you heard it here MicroStrategy number two cryptocurrency in the world. Mert? Um maybe Alex you want you want to Alex any any big prediction? I think you're going to see something that's really common which is AI tribalism. Essentially you're going to have groups of individuals that are like right now Telegram chats and Discord groups and disparate like groups of KOLs that get really really tightly knit and become like the network states that Balaji envisioned but they're like technologically enhanced.

Yeah. Mert out of like the top five cryptocurrencies in 10 years how many of them do you think don't exist today they're going to be completely new? Oh that's a good question. Um I think there's probably room for one new one. Only one?

Yes I think because these crypto is a network game right it's a network effect game money is a network effect thing and so like so for example like imagine somebody actually beating Bitcoin today it's probably not going to happen right the memetic effect the network effect is too strong. Is Ripple or BNB falling out? For sure yeah. One of those I know I know you're not going to say Solana's falling out. I I think one of those two.

Okay. For sure but yeah like prediction I don't know you know Solana will be a thousand so I I will have hair again I don't know something like that but no I think like one actual opinion I have on this is that crypto will be much more important than AI. More important than AI that is a bold prediction. Guys we're out of time I hope you enjoyed it I had definitely did this was all unscripted so hope you took something.