Money & Web 3.0: Is This a Marriage Made in Heaven - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2022

hi everyone thank you for joining us so um I would love to introduce to you our esteemed panel here what we have here on the stage today is a very very wide breadth and massive depth in the space of both traditional finance and the wet the digital asset space so I would invite starting from Vinoy to introduce themselves thank you thanks to United thanks for the opportunity it's great to be here uh so my name is vinay Kumar uh I was the global head of digital assets for Standard Chartered bank and got the bank into stable coins crypto payment uh infrastructures and uh uh you know setting up the entire business from scratch before that I was a partner at Boston Consulting Group and right now I'm diving deep into the nft venturing thank you thank you my name is anutosh I'm a partner at McKinsey and Company here in Singapore I lead our work in banking as well as web3 in the region quite excited to share our perspectives both working with fintechs and working with Shapers and traditional institutions on this exciting topic thank you so much anatoshi well thanks to arena impropine for putting this together right so my name is digital assets team in PWC Singapore what I do day today is to work with crypto native companies as well as capital markets institutions want to apply blockchain use cases for for their organizations so across strategy tools and I advise you happy to be here too you know thank you so much I'm pranav Sharma and I'm founding partner of Woodstock fund we are the largest and the oldest Fund in web 3 space that emerge out of India my own background is financial services and this topic is close to my heart in many ways because in many ways you know I experienced web3 as a space wherein you can see expression inclusion on a massive scale definitely we are going through a shift and as more regulations you know come in it's creating a very interesting space wherein a true marriage is emerging in many ways and we are also lead investors in propane in the previous round we also invested in the previous to previous round as a lead investor is well extremely bullish and propane and the custody as a space and various other things which are help you know building around you know that area so happy to be here so you know thank you so much pranav and uh I'm tuhina CEO and co-founder of propine we are a licensed regulated custodian and we're licensed by Mas we can handle all types of digital assets whether it's crypto or whether it's digital securities so without further Ado let's dive into our topic we all know about web 1.0 where there was a one-way Street of information which transformed to Web 2.0 which is what we know this as right a collaborative interactive space with user uh you know generated content from here now we're moving on to web 3.0 which is based on a decentralized data architecture which allows a peer-to-peer transfer of value so to set the context here I would love for our panelists to give us their quick views on why do you think discussion around web 3.0 is important and in what ways do you think it is going to transform the value of consumers of companies of markets when I would you like to take that since you've been at the Forefront of this from a banking space sure happy to uh so I I think web 3.

0 is in some ways is a reflection of where internet Commerce social structure and social interaction is moving right so it is much more about I would say decentralization uh disintermediation which comes out of real uh as to who's the true owner of information and who's the true creator and the value transfer being direct rather than through an intermediary or platform I think that's a fundamental difference which is going to be there in Commerce or economies and the social interactions yeah that's that's really why it's so important um so let's say at Woodstock we recently published our thesis and uh they we look at you know web3 is that you know imagine four circles so one is economics so definitely the economics is becoming a lot more decentralized as the world used to be like 30 70 in terms of 70 percent were halves not and 30 percent perhaps now this is becoming a lot more skewed where let's say in some of the developed countries itself it is 5.95 right and typically historically in these situations there is Revolution etc etc that means there is an organic demand for distributed currency or distributed economics or participation a b is the technology itself is becoming a lot more modular and a lot more you can say uh in a way that it takes care of the data of the individuals so that you have your own data your own Keys Etc in your ownership and this is becoming a very big movement it was a rhetoric in the past but it has become a necessity now and it will become an important feature in times to come the third thing is you look at the social it was not about technology or economics fundamentally as incumbents were not very keen to associate with these Technologies because their existing models were valuable enough and as the margins are reducing as they're seeing that the Gen Z and various other factions of the world which is a lot more volatile it's participating into these Technologies they're seeing that there is a natural bridge for them it is also about an existential decision to participate so gen Z participating Enterprises participating banking system participating the fourth circle is equal logic I think this is something that we don't discuss enough it becomes rhetorical right now as a conversation when you talk about ESG climate change Etc but a lot of these are also about individuals participating governments participating multilateral agencies participating and the best way for them to participate is through a distributed technology like web 3.0 and if you look at the intersection of all these four circles in our experience or let's say in many ways what Tim Burnley also thought about as web 3.0 5.0 Etc it's a very human win-win kind of an Internet which is at the center of all of this so that there is a terrific balance for me I'm very big on web3 right because if I look at the web 3 business models I've been around there are clearly some efficiencies that's been driven in some business models that's getting more and more recognition and in terms of the traction of customer engagements we probably just you know at the beginning and when I look at some of the touch points on the ground right we can see not just a fighting Factor but a lot of other Industries coming to want to enjoy and recognize such benefits so definitely very positive about web tree [Music] I think everyone's made excellent points and tying it back to tohinai or your introduction web 3 is the third iteration of the internet as you're saying and that allows money to move over the Internet value to move over the Internet typically money movement value movements being associated with financial services entities but actually web3 enables you to look at banking as an activity rather that is an entity and that is a big change it's a big change for Regulators alike as well as the institutions involved in it but here sitting in Asia like conglomerates can get into it you know there's a financial institutions obviously can look at the implications corporates can get into it new fintech is gonna can get involved there was decentralization users can get involved in this activity so it's a huge opportunity and multi-faceted implications so very happy to talk more in detail about it but that's why I'm excited about it thank you so much another that was a great segue so we had a great understanding of why web 3.

0 is important decentralization uh participation disintermediation value transfer so in that context I'm going to make three assertions now okay and I would love for you all of you to discuss this these assertions my first assertion is in a digitalized world is nothing but data the second assertion in uh the blockchain technology world decentralized secure ownership of data is possible and along with trustless data verification that is transforming how data is being used and consumed and finally web 3.0 promises to be more decentralized and personalized so what do you think that means or how does it transform Financial interactions and money as a concept any of you can take that let me start and I'm sure others will jump in so I mean I think the first thing which is there is whether it be Web 2.0 or web 3.0 or 1.0 it doesn't really matter right if it is off to be of use and it is to be of relevance money is an important part of it the value exchange has to happen if the value exchange does not happen then it's you know it's just you're seeking information that's about it right so I think that is one this the second thing which I think is is what is the role of the money on this if you typically traditionally you look at it one is it's a medium of exchange right it's a storage of value right and it's a unit of accounting right so which means that typically if you if the system or ecosystem allows for it anything can serve as money right if it exercises these three roles so the question which becomes more is that what is more suited from uh you know uh web 3.

0 which is much more decentralized disintermediate peer-to-peer instantaneous and everything else which which is there right and you have to ask the questions that many of the things which you said is actually lots of track five people will say that money can serve that function today right why do you need to have all of this kind of a stuff it's true but I think there's a one fundamental difference in my mind which is if I look at the money today uh uh information is there to your point and the value is there right but they travel through different pipes this is the first time we are seeing in technology or technology which is where money and value can travel together right and that is a very very powerful and that's what it takes away all your instantaneous you know uh uh Atomic settlements uh takes out the overheads etc etc so I think that is a powerful construct the the next bit which is there is that if you look at security and everything else the basic technology provides that so and the algorithms and everything else and depending on the ecosystem you create it's much more about the participant security and everything else which you have to look at to say okay the technology per se if your Protocols are right you have a lot of confidence in in the cryptography Etc right and then the next question which comes in is that where does this go uh and you you kind of preserve it and if if you look at from the traditional payment rails today which exist and the value of money which you and therefore the money exchange which can happen in where 3.0 and and it has to be intertwined they they are not ready for it as yet and that is the biggest obstacle I would say in terms of participation is web 3.0 whether it be a seamless integration of existing monetary or financial systems or banking systems with that because of regulatory scope and everything else or because of it's not instantaneous or even whether it is instantaneous you have lots of issues in terms of data and other stuff which can come in so I think it is it really becomes a an issue in terms of how you think about web 3.0 how do you bring money to it how do you make it seamless Integrations and then also what type of money because we can talk about stable coins and cbdc as a payment levels and without payment infrastructure nothing works and then you can talk about in terms of whether it is the crypto like Bitcoin or eth or whatever it is and whether they can translate into your payment tokens and then serve But ultimately what matters when you need to bring it together I mean to bring it a topic I think is that that 3.0 is a very powerful construct it is here to say that's the future as we all disagree it's about making the money play into that right and the money which will really play there will be have the characteristics of Ubiquiti you will have the trust you have to have trust you have to have stability of the financial system and the use cases have to be built around that because right now we are just touching the periphery of these things once we get to that then we can get in with all the social the democratizations and you know the value exchange to really bring it to four so I think that's that's really my starting thesis on how you bring it together over the marriage you know maybe um just to build on Benoist Point um the other concept to keep in mind along with this change of value is the notion of product Market fit and that notion is nothing new that notion has existed in web 1 web 2 web 3.

but when you achieve product Market fit before web 3 technology Primitives were available the benefits would have accrued to a cooperation and the corporation would have gained a lot of Revenue and a lot of success the potential here is that if web3 applications gain product Market fit and they are truly decentralized and some of the other characteristics are present the users can become also participants in the wealth that's created through that success that's quite an exciting Paradigm it scares corporations it possibly creates new kinds of Corporations which goes very well with the current social construct that exists in the world as well so there's the I think the social dimension of it which is quite an important dimension in the assertions you made as implications to Ena thank you so adding on to that right especially on assertion number two I think I have no doubts about the value transfer that can take place within web tree I think a lot also depends on the level of maturity of the participants right how ready are them uh to jump on board so that you can create a Everlasting perspective of trust for all this to happen so so from my perspective I think this is an ongoing Journey where we've done quite well but for this to get to the next level of adoption sometimes it depends on from all the participants perspective what are your consumers whether you're some of the businesses or even some some of the guys plug in along with a battery chain they want to jump on the web tree are they from an infrastructure standpoint ready from security from Identity right to be able to provide everyone in the ecosystem the trust to take off so so for me I think there's also an ongoing Journey that we will have to work on as a community for this for all of us to enjoy the benefits of web3 and you know just picking up from the three points that you mentioned the way I summarize it that uh data is money and money is data and that's how I see as web3 I think in uh web 2 it was exclusive it was either data was money and you know money was Data it is both that means that you have modular systems you have participative systems in which you can have money as more composable more containerized and in a way that it can be flowing from point A to point B with absolute ease and with the Privacy which is you know there with an individual assence sorry the control is there you know with an individual here this is a completely new paradigm it creates a space in which you can create a plethora of applications top of it so definitely the most primitive applications are lending applications and exchange applications but a lot more Innovation can happen in terms of playing with the money and one of the concepts here is that there was a point at which the marketplaces were a lot more centralized and they were only liquid under the purview of regulatory forces or let's say regulatory Frameworks but now the liquidity practically moves at will so essentially the congregation of capital and the liquidity for example let's say nft is a Marketplace I'm sure nobody thought about that you know there would be something like an open C and you know there'll be so much liquidity out there Etc but the thing is a lot of these illiquid space are also discovering value and liquidity that means a lot more financial instruments are also creating spaces for participation and this is extremely new in 5000 years of our history as you know Humanity so that means money as data and data is money creates a very interesting paradigm for people to participate and get included on a massive scale so if I was just to start up things right it's just a spread of discussion so you know just building on front of what you said and construction uh what you're saying is I mean I think in some ways it's not a question about money and web 3. if I turn it on its head it's saying if you take the characteristics of Technology where you have tokenizations you have security right and you have a very seamless and frictionless transfers and confirmations Etc and depending on the legal structures Etc keep that aside for a minute actually the question becomes what cannot serve as money in that system right because if you can do a price Discovery or an attribute of value yeah and you have a market maker in there of some sort anything and everything can be money right because ultimately money is what value I ascribe to it so as long as someone is doing a price Discovery yeah it can be an art it can be a piece of uh real estate it could be uh you know and you can already see models being built around that so you can basically create marketplaces around any sorts of token and that is going to be a real power of web3 is that it will unlock value in illiquid assets and writes All Creations or artistic creations seamlessly there is as long as someone can ascribe a value to it it will be synonymous with money love it love it so some of the major constructs that just came out of this conversation participative economy value and information flowing through the same pipe which is making major changes in how the values perceive all of this is going to change the business models it's going to change the customer segments it's going to create new markets entirely right and I'm going to touch upon that but before that there was a little discussion here that I really want to Deep dive a little bit into because it creates a lot of confusion in the minds of people so there was a conversation around a trustless data architecture but then we are also constantly talking about trust we're talking about stability ubiquity and Trust in the system um Vichy also brought about the fact that there needs to be trust in the ecosystem before there is mass participation how do we reconcile this concept of a trustless base and yet we're talking of bringing in trust how do you see these two seemingly opposite forces um getting reconciled here well I would say I mean I think it's an interesting Paradigm right uh because trust you can decompose it into various things one is whether I trust the infrastructure right or whether it is a question of whether I trust the counterparty right okay uh or whether I have the trust in the stability of the tokens and all of them will work different ways right uh one of the directions in which we can push for this the other trust which is there is in the ecosystem the privacy and everything else and we have had this you know turn out of cash tumblers and all of that kind of stuff right kind of a conversation uh and I think one of the biggest debates which will happen in decentralized world is around what is transparency and what's my privacy rights right uh because in some ways if you look at the foundation of trust is transparency and understanding of that right and that's that's going to be one of the biggest debates and I think it's it's very interesting is I think that couple of things which are going to evolve right one is a definition of privacy is evolving so where people were extremely reluctant to share you know private information or you know participation in events or otherwise you see it all over the place right you take Instagram or Facebook or it'll cover that kind of stuff and it's all over the place right so it's a definition it's not changing I think the definition and therefore and the second thing which is there is that the transparency is important from the point of view of controlling on managing the ecosystems and maintaining its resilience as well as confidence in this because you don't want Financial crimes and all sort of in there as well but it brings the other side of things picture as well so I think that Paradigm Shift which will happen is the Privacy will become much more about how much do I control the information which is being shared and who I who owns it and whether I'm getting paid for that or rewarded for that or it is at my discretion right it's not about the platform controlling the information and data and my privacy it's me controlling it and that's the other direction in which you'll see web 3.0 uh going uh in terms of tokenization of information of personal data and did and everything else which you're gonna see so I think nfts or Dres Etc uh you know are gonna be big in terms of pushing that boundary of privacy of different types of information right so I think that is we'll see just on the point of trust I think maybe it's already understood but with three is a new technology and therefore we're putting trust in technology right I think that's a very different um concept around trust and if you look at web 3 the technology Primitives and again just to put some structure to it and people can have a different frame of reference for it but the web 3 technology Primitives there are three New Primitives there's blockchain at the base layer you have Smart contracts that allow for some automation of that blockchain to go in and you have digital assets and tokens so the trust in the technology the same way in the web 2 space we have in we have created a lot of systems and processes that give us that trust it's either regulation or it's auditing of corporations that make that profit and so on and so for disclosures on listed companies and so on and so forth similar trusts have to come on these layer trust mechanisms have to be put in so for blockchain obviously the technology and the infrastructure that you touched upon for smart contracts it's auditing of that technology is it fit for purpose lots of scenario modeling around that digital assets and tokens an element of Regulation an element of tokenomics and element of scenario planning a lot of systems and processes have to be put in place to have people have trust in the technology and it's a work in progress just like it is in the web 2 world you have systems but still there are issues where that trust is broken system then gets corrected and then we move on from our for better so on a system trust I.T trust clearly has been a working journey I think the Auditors the core reviewers everyone will catch up as well to make it a safer place right but I think touching on the concept of privacy what I think is going to change or it's going to evolve over the next few years is that Under the Umbrella of privacy there's also authenticity that we have to deal with right and the concept of intensity whether you have to know it's that individual or it's their wallet and there's a real party behind it what does that really mean and what does it take for us to put together a framework where everyone right will be more wiggling to participate as a result of that authenticity that's in place I think it's something we we have to watch closely because once that starts to take shape and form then that's where the the new wave of guys participating will act will absolutely come true and uh I really like it of what uh you know I mentioned in terms of let's say a decoding trust you know trust has multiple components of it right and uh a lot of these things are taken care of by the underlying technology but there's also a layer of social trust and historically as human beings we are used to social trust so we always have those custodians in the society they were Kings at some point in time or the custodians of power trust Etc and then there were people let's say I'm just saying let's say in web 2 world you have Google's apples Etc in some ways custodials or trust probably all of us have Apple phones you know right now here right and in many ways you know trust you know comes from consistency it comes from performance right and it comes from an ability to stand you know the test of your times like multiple Cycles you know go through like for example Amazon is a stock or Amazon is a company you know there was a point at which you know it was 90 down or whatever it is and Jeff bezosian did come out and mentioned that hey do you want to be buying the stock or not doesn't matter it doesn't bother me kept on building the company and took it you know to a different level altogether Invincible in many ways right so so the point is about uh when you look at different participants in the entire ecosystem so the question is that is risk management in the consciousness of every individual who is a participant is self-governance into the consciousness of every participant now it comes to investors do we have the right kind of investment practices which includes basically risk management backing the right entrepreneurs right use cases working very closely with them seeing that they see a lot of the day etc etc that's I'm just giving up perspective and I'm from my own first person perspective as a builder are you looking at you know dismissing regulations dismissing consumer interests are looking at embracing both and seeing that you know there is a responsible journey and can we build something of tremendous value which gets the next bill one billion or two billion users you know into this you know space as The Regulators can we create a space for let's say open Innovation to happen in a way that as Humanity we Step Up rather than cross-selling consumerism and sort of creating the same problems that we have created you know over the you know past right so so the idea is that how do we create you know trustful ecosystems with this trustless technology which is available to us and you know that is a very important Paradigm and you know I think I think that is somewhere at least in my experience I'm seeing that lot of inner work is happening as we are into this bear Market a lot of people are collaborating they're discussing ideas and ways and means in which they can do better you know governance self-governance participate with the right kind of actors who can take the industry forward Etc so from this trust decoding Trust so to a trustless technology to taking the entire industry and the ecosystem forward to create a more trusted ecosystem I'm extremely bullish about how this is happening thank you pranav so what I'm hearing here and what I just learned from all of you was that actually the principles remain the same the principles haven't changed trust is an important part of our ecosystem authenticity is an important part of the ecosystem need for stability is a very important part of the ecosystem none of these Concepts have changed but the way they are being implemented is being changed trust is going to get decentralized it used to be centralized with a few large centralized organizations it's going to get decentralized in the form of technology in the form of several Auditors in the form of social trust being built up so principles are the same but their implementation will become more decentralized creating more scalable more reliable and more resilient ecosystem so going back to the earlier uh constructs that were brought about by the panelists here now we're talking of a new ecosystem where value and and information are traveling in the same uh space on the same pipes as you put it a more participative ecosystem is developing right now that is naturally going to create massive impact on uh business models it'll open up new markets it will create new client segments so what do you think would be the first uh sets of um you know marketplaces where do you see the first applications emerge where do you see the largest impact coming into our lives so um it's a great question first of all I mean I think it's ultimately so what so you talk a lot of stuff but so on uh you know we're going to see this in phases it's it's not a one-year Journey it's not a five-year Journey it's a it's a it's an evolution right and it's a different Evolution because there's going to be lots of revolutions as we go along this kind of thing the way it goes right so I would say that the phase one which we have to see is building a trust infrastructure and simplification right now this world is very complex so if you ask an average person which has to happen if you want to get to Ubiquiti if you want to go to democratization you have to get the common man or woman onto the platform it's very hard I've got to get into a mask and then I do this that's the only way I can access this it doesn't work I mean I don't know I'm still learning about 2.0 is a common theme right I still make mistakes with that so I think that simplification trust Etc which has to be built uh and infrastructure has to get in place where it completes stuff right so that is number one number two is I think the next transition which is already starting to happen and these will overlap I I it would be conversion of traditional products because the financial needs or you know interactions don't change you're still going to buy things you're still going to pay for them you're still going to borrow money you know you're still going to save money so the traditional products you'll see start migrating into this ecosystem so your credit cards uh will evolve you know they will just become faster cheaper hopefully and uh jurisdiction free and Etc uh and similarly lending you know you're starting you already have over collateralized once you'll see under collateralized get more and more prominent and that's where the data and information and the models will come together uh you will see investment products which is already starting to see with BlackRock and everyone else coming into this I think you will see a lot more token I I expect to see a lot more tokenization and interestingly I would say that for me I would say that security tokens are interesting very interesting but the success of it will really depend on the jurisdictions because not all the legal framework books and all the uh I would say regulatory Frameworks are in place in all the jurisdictions and even if you look at some of the biggest Bond issuances Regulators are legal to frame Community has stepped in to make way for that right I mean whether in terms of the settlement finality or otherwise kind of a thing right so I mean or making cbdc is available for the instantaneous payments Etc right so I think so that's something which you'll see uh I so the tokenization I would see much more an nft route going down I would see transfer of identity onto this yeah that's a business model where I will see and some of these will start being the on the payment infrastructure you'll start seeing utilities being built for this the question which as usual will be for who's going to pay for the identity right and will there be a standard view I mean we were talking earlier in terms of the standards around this and etc etc but the most powerful thing which I think will happen is where the concept of data and programmability of tokens will come together that's when we will see a real revolution in business models I can see identity tokens and payments coming together beautiful right there's no way you can stop that yeah the only way you can stop that is when you say regulations prohibit that but you cannot stop that in private ecosystems yeah because there are tokens and you can always manage that that kind of looking right so so all the Loyalty payments identity tokens I see a convergence and that's a very very different business model and social economic exchanges is the future what time it takes who knows who cares I mean one thing to keep in mind as you as you ask us to look ahead is also to just look back and acknowledge it's a new it's a new space so if you think about back to the technology Primitives blockchain is 2008 or nine smart contracts are 2014-15 digital assets really caught everyone's imagination at the last Peak at 2017-18 so those technology Primitives are very new and the product Market fit that's been happening on what applications take off have been very consumer driven and in the consumer driven applications there's been you know various applications of financial services I think we know you talked about payments I think pranab you talked about lending I mean those deposits I mean there are Financial Services applications initially and then through the rise as we saw post the defy summer and 20 20 21 we saw other applications around created economy and most recently around different experiences in the form of metaverse experiences also coming and gaining early early traction so that consumer product Market fit will continue on its on its path and the path has already been kind of indicated the exciting part is how will the businesses react and why will the businesses react and I think that's the question that businesses have to ask themselves either the incumbents today or the businesses of tomorrow and in a way they would react to either get access to this new I think you called it sort of Market or product or they'll react because there are new consumers who they can just not uncover they're under the surface for them they don't they don't know them the consumers don't know them so it's a opaque area for them so they would react to get access to those products and those consumers or they will react to leverage the technology which is also a very big benefit for their business and you talked about the bond markets but equally the technology can create efficiency at scale and they can keep the technology in the background and they don't have to create the issues around the lack of understanding of the technology the same way webto companies also run technologies that not every common man or woman understands necessarily to the same degree so access and efficiency will then drive where businesses go and obviously it's been a very consumer driven uh business so far there are two other hot spot areas that I see on the ground that's coming right and this is over and Beyond uh marketplaces with prices Cavalry and exit points for some other deep asset classes right one I think a lot of the conglomerates and a lot of mnc's are exploring whether this I can embed web tree into my settle money to my treasury management and really get something out of this right so this is something that's not publicly talked about right but it's there's a lot of companies who are trying to get into a way where they can do real-time settlement with their whether it's their consumers or across into offices right and and I think this is one huge force that we probably cannot deny that's likely going to take off because there's real tangible benefits the other one that I thought is interesting as well is that the concept of airdrops also quite familiar to this space seems to be taking off in the way where uh they are they're talking about customer engagements right so from digital marketing and other strategies that they have nowadays when I go speak to clients they go like maybe we should get everybody you know with wallets that we can at airdrops discounts and things like that into so I think that another Force that's rather than refreshing for me in the last you know two to three quarters which I think may be a major first you know in the coming months there's more and more firms explore whether this is the way I should engage my community and so let me respond to this question from a funds lens you know so we recently published a thesis like a 28 page expansive document let me synthesize it so uh there are three Mega Trends you know that we see shaping of the future first is Convergence this is Convergence of cultures which is what is happening and that is what we see nft is a cultural phenomena convergence of various Technologies earlier it was only about blockchain became white papers 2017 speculative etc etc various real applications emerged but also about convergence of blockchain as a technology traditional Technologies and also let's say AIML AR VR air is creating meta versus Space right and then it is also about you know convergence of various markets which is marketplaces you know point which I mentioned earlier uh the second theme that Mega Trend that we see is uh financialization which is financialization of practically anything and everything of value you know the point that you mentioned that means technically everything is our value right even a data point is of certain value so as the liquidity becomes a lot more fungible it is about financialization financialization of of course D5 is one starting point but financialization of Securities you know as your rightly mentioned but it will also be about financialization of abstract assets over a span of time the third is virtualization which is about gaming gamification we're in the real world and the virtual world is becoming Continuum and when you speak with Gamers they enjoy gaming a lot more than social interactions right and people who enjoy social interactions enjoy their uh you can say their Instagram reels a lot more these ways it's all become a Continuum you know right now so these three Mega Trends will shape up and this will Define web 3 in a more expensive way so right now for this real this to be converted to reality what is missing is infrastructure pieces now if let's say I focus on convergence fundamentally the blockchain and the middle layer has to become a lot more stable a lot more consistent lot more modular it's a lot more Innovation is happening there the trilemma has to be solved in some one way or the other financialization then place the custody plays are very important in our own personal thesis you know a real asset uh you can say finance will become a big space securitization for example tokenization so and so forth custodians have the you can say the unique point of arrival wherein they can actually become the banks of tomorrow as these digital assets become more and more valuable and more more and more retail participation happens on a massive scale third thing is when it comes to virtualization it is not only gaming definitely gaming is a starting point but it is gamification so part of gamification for example airdrop point that you mentioned is essentially gamification if there are existing holders you can learn a very targeted way let's say drop a nft or a airdrop this is digital marketing 3.

0 4.0 whatever you call it right so these are the spaces which will shape up uh you know the entire web 3.0 over a span of time and these applications are fundamentally right now infrastructure applications which will become consumer applications you know over a specified so right now from a timeline perspective we are probably three to five years away from True deep consumer adoption of you know these Technologies maybe Finance site could be much more faster because you know this is something that there is enough liquidity in the market fed is also helping all of us you know in terms of ensuring that this liquidity gets analyzed into digital asset space sooner or later amazing I was just going to add something which has struck me as we were talking right because where we started web 3.0 conversation was about uh decentralization disintermediation and I don't know whether this was just a coincidence or otherwise or it's points to a trend but talking about business models it's it is quite possible as we're seeing is that the retail or b2c is going to lead B2B uh you know you will see much faster Innovations and much more new business models which are going directly as of that 3.0 should right uh and the institutions will have to follow as to where the flows are going and what the role they can play and it is a very interesting question in terms of you know if you look at the probe you touched upon it is it how the roles are going to evolve will the custodians be the future banks for example and will those intermediation roles around and some of the requirements which you have around just building Trust gets replaced by technology and then so where does that go right what role do they play in future or don't play so I think it's not only a question of a business model but what ecosystem builds around it and how it changes the existing ecosystem is going to be a thing to watch I think it will in parallel or faster I don't know if we still have time but I think one thing we haven't touched on which is an important Point tying product and Pinoy your points together is we obviously going through a crypto winter right I mean that goes without saying but uh in the point on consumers creating the demand and businesses following absolutely right I mean that's a that's a given but for businesses to follow they have systems and process and governance before they um are truly getting involved into a particular opportunity and if the opportunity is running away from them and every month the Market's much higher than the previous month then they feel they kind of pushed into a corner to look at that opportunity but the crypto winter gives them I don't know how long I mean a fairly long period of time to really sink their teeth into this technology understand how it applies to their businesses or creates new businesses for them so this ongoing environment may give us a boost because more businesses May then have the time to get involved and really see what they want to do with this technology it's all right so I think the the few points that I thought really stood out for me the first thing is that when we talk about a water like when I asked the question I was when I I actually was expecting some answers like oh let's look at payments are going to get disrupted or oh there's going to be remittances or like you know I was I was actually expecting some of those answers what struck me and what's coming out very clearly is that that linear Paradigm of thinking is completely passe we have to move beyond that we're talking about conversions right but I've just talked about the new trends financialization virtualization gamification conversions and we're talking about you know when I was talking about how we're not just going to talk about payments we're going to talk about payments or embedded Finance within the context of how the social interactions will happen how it will get embedded with your identity right so when we start to think about this we realize that we are really really ill-equipped at this stage if we think in terms of the past business models or we think about the consumer engagement in previous ways Ouija brought about the fact that we are talking about air drops we're talking about digital marketing 3.

0 and 4.0 so pretty much every way in which we are going to engage with consumers and the way the businesses are going to be consumed and the way they're going to be put out there are going to be super different and we need to think in many more holistic ways well a metaverse way right so we're running out of time and so at this stage I would thank our panelists for such a great discussion for me the great two big things that I'm going to take away personally is that I'll stop using the word trustless technology and call it a distributed trust environment that is getting developed and the fact that we should stop talking about uh you know single or linear ways of thinking about how the world will approach there's going to be massive Confluence of seemingly very very different streams of our identities our beings and our interactions that will come together in a very in a very new paradigm and very new environment thank you so much thank you pranav thank you anutosh and Vinoy