A Look Ahead: Challenges and Opportunities for Web3 - TOKEN2049 London 2022

good afternoon everyone how is everyone doing it's uh I think we're our the third last or we're almost there until the end of the day and until wine I heard so um yeah hope you stay with us for the next uh half hour so um I'm Samantha I'm the founder of Yap Global and I'm very excited to be joined by uh and a diverse and amazing panel that uh is doing work in web 3 in all different aspects um so uh let's kick it off with some introductions and what each of you do to serve the web 3 Industry so uh do you want to start Steve sure uh Steve Munford I'm the chief executive at uh trulyu and we're identity platform so as it relates to web 3 or crypto platforms or payments we help establish trust that can be for a variety of reasons but increasingly it's for regulations but really to help facilitate transparency trust eliminate fraud between transactions uh hi my name is Michael Carter uh so I'm here on behalf of work Dao and I actually do two things in web3 so um on the kind of more fun and Whimsical side uh I'm one of the creators of story verse which is a nft platform for storytelling and we're sort of pre-launch but you can check us out and then on the sort of extreme opposite side I'm the chairman at worked out where we are a token and employment compensation platform so for all of those Dows and web 3 companies that are trying to figure out how to hire people all over the world and compensate them in tokens in different forms we're the solution to that to the many problems that arise from trying to achieve that hi everyone uh this is Sandy young managing director of Europe for a triple um I come from a payments background MasterCard previous five years HSBC before um and at Ripple essentially what we do is we help companies move money in a more efficient way faster cheaper transparent way across borders using crypto and blockchain Technologies and eliminating the need for those standards to park Capital around the world and they therefore releasing a lot of capital and making things more efficient and allowing them to invest to grow their businesses Ripple we are now a 10 year old company in crypto space that's a you know very long time and we're very fortunate to have seen almost this you know evolution of the space and specifically payments use case coming from a kind of more hypothesis to um to piloting and really as a proven solution so I'm really excited to you know talk a bit more later around how we receive this and and how that's been working out uh hello everyone I'm John V I'm I'm not an Enterprise and I guess I'm the one consumer guy on the on the panel so I run a company called Napster um does anyone use Napster back in the day hey you're still there so this is a 21 year old t-shirt it has been washed in the last number of years so I worked on Napster 21 years ago when I was at bertelsman we lent the money and tried to get them um to be legitimized which would have killed Spotify and other ones and the world will be different but we were the original kind of decentralized web3 brand before web3 was a glint in anyone's eye we would decentralize it was all about empowering the the Creator and doing things differently anyway so since then I worked in the music business and advertising and television and most most recently at ROBLOX um and then joined Napster a few months ago so we're trying to as I heard from a lady like blow [ __ ] up again in the music industry and change the model away from what's been a fairly you know boring non-exciting um streaming industry for the last 20 years and empower the artist at the center of the experience and never leveraging the best of web 3 silently in the background uh to bring this uh to the mass Market uh away from kind of the Shadows thank you thanks guys so um by way of introduction just for for me um so Yap Global we're a PR agency that helps web 3 defying crypto companies tell their stories and so I'm looking at it uh on an angle of you know what's you know interesting in the space some of our clients are you know Dows like ens domains so they're like on the spectrum of web3 trying to do it organically so I'm going to be kind of learning from from each of the panelists um you know today on on on where uh we're at because you know the title the panel is looking ahead um what are the challenges and you know what are the opportunities that we see so let's do a stock take let's um let's start with where we are right now it's been an interesting uh 48 hours in the crypto industry uh as some of you may have um you know read in the news or followed on Twitter um and so it's and and web3 is kind of interlinked with you know the activity with what's happening in crypto as well because it's kind of it underpins the growth however there's a you know there's the web through to Industry that's you know in the last few months started to take interest and have web 3 strategies like Disney like Starbucks you know collaborating with polygons so um I just want to hear from the panel you know what's your assessment of the state of you know web 3 development today where are we um yeah and what needs to be done so Steve you want to kick us off sure um so we've been around for 10 years we've been working on this identity challenge um sorry we've been around for 10 years we've been working on this identity challenge for the last yeah 10 years and you know web2o had the same challenge like if everything goes digital how do you solve the problem of establishing trust uh and doing trust and safety in a world where there's seven billion people that you may want to access and each one may not have a a Identity or be able to verify themselves digitally so we've been working on that platform you know again for the 10-year journey I think when it comes to web three and players like crypto or payments it's the same challenge right there's no no one infrastructure you can go to to verify someone you know really is who they are and increasingly as regulation comes as people look for more trust and and um and to avoid fraud again that layer has got to be built and I think it's early days well still early days in web 2 but I think it's also early days in web three but I think the most interesting thing is web3 provides some really interesting as a platform interesting ways to let users control the identity let demands their identity and manage their trusted relationships which I think is um that's quite exciting thanks Michael um so I guess we'll go in order uh so the news recently I think highlights this trend that's really coming to a head and it's sort of a conflict of um ideologies and like people who on the one side are you know you kind of have this idea of crypto as uh you know this Anarchist movement or this movement kind of away from traditional finance and governments and things like that um and then you kind of have this other side of it which is like all The Regulators saying hey wait hold on we got to understand this we got to get a hold of it and I think that like we're sort of seeing right now just like such starkly different kind of World Views and like lived experiences on both sides and it's really highlighted then when you look at something like this recent FTX thing where on the one hand a lot of people are like hey I'm in crypto like I you know I'm not here to pay taxes and what are you talking about and then kind of the same people are like wait a second like you know what you know where's the government when my centralized exchange disappears and so what I think we're going to see in the future is actually basically two separate paths I think you'll have the like true decentralized you know sort of if it's you know not your key it's not your wallet it's not your crypto um maybe even you know these groups that don't use their identity and and I think like getting to that kind of standard of decentralization and anonymity is really hard very few people will get there and like the people who do that and decide to tow that that line like they'll be able to invent all sorts of interesting Futures that is they're just hard to do in the regulated world and then the other I think honestly like 99 you know 0.5 you know percent or more will just live in the regulated world and I think people will pay their taxes and and you know people will have one for one uh you know sort of reserves and their exchanges and you know they'll be kyc and things like this and I think that's okay and that's good I think the people who really want to live in that kind of world outside of Regulation they'll have to work hard to do it and they'll be able to and I think for everyone else there'll be a lot more predictability and a lot more certainty but you know it's going to be clearly a bit of a rocky road till we get to those two you know realities Cindy yeah I think when I think about sort of where we are I think two things stand out right one is I think we've we've come a very long way in the development it's certainly in the last sort of time 14 years if you think about from that Horizon it is the fastest adoption of technology that we've seen in history but at the same time when we you know we're just at the beginning of it becoming more mainstream I don't think it's yet mainstream and we're at the early early inklings and when I look at sort of as an example of for example ripples experience I imagine so we've been around 10 years really in the last sort of four or five years the payments Network the crypto enablement the adoption of that you know acceptance of having a um cross-border payment solution where you have exactly the digital asset the NATO digital asset on The xrp Ledger xrp in your payments flow it does deliver the you know cost and and real-time settlement and all of those great benefits but you know even maybe four years ago um speaking to Banks traditional finance companies it was a non-conversation opener for 99.9 of them right um it was it was too abstract too risky and we have come a long way where now we see a lot of those traditional finance companies coming to us and saying well we do want to get into like there is something there we can see it we can't touch it I'm feeling and maybe we don't know where to start obviously everybody is on different scale but let's talk through it because we know you've been you know in it for 10 years working with the ecosystem from the beginning right I think it was very interesting when you mentioned like kind of this original ethos we've seen a massive change in terms of that you know when initially when Bitcoin started on the back of the you know financial crisis Etc it was very Revolution it was about you know let's let's throw the you know we don't trust governments we don't want to Trust Banks it's a new alternative system that there's definitely something sort of valuable in there but at the same time you know I think Ripple's Vision has always been this is not uh you know throwing something out it's an evolution let's build this change together let's take advantage of all the great benefits and improve and I think in the last maybe 18 months we've seen that taking a hold you know every I mean despite the you know winter you know crypto winter macro and mime and seasons change you know all of this unfortunate and sad and all these you know disruptions we're seeing despite that you still see a lot of big names like constantly coming out and you know launching new initiatives new Adoption of digital assets so I think we cannot ignore like both sides are the reality of the space so I'm absolutely truly you know inspired by where kind of Ripple net has come from completely from scratch to processing about you know over 15 billion dollars of volume but if you look at the cross-border payment space that's still very tiny right so there's a lot more room to grow a lot more to do and I'm yeah I'm very excited to be in this space sort of to be part of driving that change and that adoption going forward so I'm I'm relatively new to quote-unquote web3 I was a metaverse guy uh for the last three or four years and we kind of looked at the web 3 party we had a pretty good party going on Zach blew up the party very recently that's a separate story so the metaverse was going well and and kind of I was a bit wary of web3 it seemed to be this other movement that was crypto that was rebranded as web free and then you know some people when meta was rebranded from or Facebook to meta it all kind of got glommed in metaverse and web3 together so my observations you know I took the job a couple of months ago and um I've been around the world and back is that first of all that the metaverse crew is still very separate to the web 3 crew and then web through is kind of separated into like defying trading which is very much over here what I'm interested in in terms of web 3 is actually Building Material new consumer businesses with blockchain technology which is web3 so not I'm not in the trading side I'm in the building new businesses which is what we're trying to do at Napster so I think there are some learnings from the metaverse so that the metaphor I've been giving recently if you think about Roblox um if anyone has kids nieces or nephews um and has given out Robux so if you think about Roblox as an L1 focused on gaming right to transfer the metaphors we had a million plus developers building on Roblox the the entire everyone can correct me afterwards but the numbers I've heard for the entire like web3 ecosystem that's between five and ten thousand like active real developers after a decade so that's an issue and then in terms of like tokens that are in usage or or currency we had Robux um it wasn't a full on chain but it was kind of a virtual currency people didn't cash out their their Robux or the developers were using it they paid each other they used it for advertising a whole bunch of new jobs were created they're all these amazing use cases that were created in the community and it was so consumerized that you could get the currency at the equivalent of boots or Walgreens or whatever um or Amazon and the the demographic that used it preferred it to cash so I think that's my optimism I think coming from the metaverse I've seen it people like what could the future of web as I've seen it already and it's amazing and I think the transition a lot of on the consumer space that nfts have a horrible I think brand Association now so I think there's there's a consumerization which I'm excited about coming in 2023 where a lot of the chats are in the last 30 days of people like you know we don't talk about the no jargon we've got to talk about everything that just happens in the back end and the end user doesn't necessarily know it's happening but it's in it bringing all this innovation in the back end um that's really cool and it's not an investor thing I think a lot of the projects NBA Top Shot you know with an average output of like you know three grand I haven't got three grand to spend on that but like a Roblox we had millions and millions of fans paying a dollar two dollars three dollars or five dollars so I think it's a transition in 2023 to more consumer adoption where it's away from kind of a smaller investor set who are using these new items almost as trading assets and not as fans to more consumerized um businesses advertisers also you're going to see a lot of advertisers coming in there was a campaign with uh vatam um a few weeks ago Around the World Cup and they're on 250 million crisp packets around with Frito Lay Around the World Cup where you download a wallet and then you could maybe win tickets to the to the World Cup so I think that the consumerization where you don't feel we were chatting before shouldn't matter to the consumer but there if there are efficiencies that you can realize on the back end whether it's money transfer or you know kyc or whatever happens to be that's happening in the back end to make ecosystems more efficient or in our case we think connecting artists and fans to allow them to make more money connect with their end users control their audiences more directly and not be capped in the music industry with the 999 or 1099 subscription but unlock that fandom that I think is the exciting thing so definitely challenges but optimistic about 2023 thanks John I like the point you make about you know no jargon I I read it launched Collectibles um uh I think two weeks ago and they didn't use any jargon it's technically nfts but they never use the word nft so I like that you know no jargon no crypto jargon no technical words I think that's going to help with you know educating people about you know the potential of web3 and speaking of opportunities I also like the point Michael you made how there there will be there are two different worlds forming there's the people who are growing it kind of organically uh on you know in decentralized autonomous organizations in Dallas but then there is a need for you know the established web 2 companies as well as you know financial institutions that have you know the the money coming in um that that need it to to grow so um let's talk about the opportunities specifically in terms of case studies for each of your real respective Fields like in the you know kyc space payments so yeah what are the opportunities you're seeing yeah I mean a couple points that were brought up and and Michael I think you said it really well which is there's going to be you know a portion of web 3 that holds its roots and is pure um but there's also a portion that wants it to be mainstream and it accepts the regulations that need to come and the security that come with that I I personally think payments and transforming how payments are done is one of the things I'm not as familiar with the consumer Tech but one of the challenges or opportunities that I think leads to more mainstream adoption of web3 Technologies because if you just look at the the cost per transaction the amount of cross-border transactions that exist and the efficiency that can be brought to bear by people like Ripple I think there's real real gain there and um and I'm quite optimistic and I I think about at a very basic level if you have a say an immigrant worker living in one country needing to move money back to their home country the the amount of tax and overhead that they have on them by moving it through a traditional Finance mechanism it's actually quite punishing and I think if web3 can solve those problems there's a huge Global good for that and I think our role in that is really to help with that identity part to help establish trust help establish transparency and allow the these new pieces of infrastructures to solve real problems on mass and I think that gets pretty exciting I mean to compliment on that I mean Cindy do you want to touch on the payment side with what Ripple's doing yeah absolutely I think you know Steve sort of described the opportunity super well um that's exactly where we see right I mean if you think about it the current Financial infrastructure was created before the internet was created right so um obviously there's been a lot of amendments and updates and this and that tweaks made but the reality is it is not really fit for a purpose to the way we live today which is a lot more digital right like it's on demand at the click of our fingers Global so we need a different way a more native way of moving value across the world that is more suited to how we live and trade and entertain and do all these things digitally today and I think that's what really excites me around adapting you know creating this infrastructure that is you know fit for a purpose for what we're trying to do which will also enable a lot more other B2B and consumer and other sort of applications and that's where you know we've been sort of investing in our infrastructure I think from our opportunity perspective I want to sort of bring in the topic around regulation right is is absolutely critical and at the heart of it and obviously has been a very very Hot Topic in this space over the last year um without clear regulation that says boundaries but also protects consumers and doesn't stifle Innovation it's not possible I think for you know the full opportunity and potential for the sector to flourish I think there's always going to be a spectrum of like very decentralized to somewhere substantial I don't think we're ever going to be in this black and white world of everything centralized or decentralized so I think there is a role for regulation to play to bring that sort of confidence to the everyday user that wants nothing to your point right they don't want anything to know they don't need to know anything about technology a lot of our customers our payment service providers right to enable these remittances they tell like they're so happy that we abstract out crypto blockchain the you know the I don't know Filipino workers handing money here to their family in the Philippines they have no idea there is xrp or blockchain being and they don't need to all they know is money is there on time they're you know saving you know pretty much all of the money maybe a tiny fraction is gone but and this money is there in a transparent way so I think that's the important thing it's not technology for technology sake but it's what is the problem it's solving how are we delivering that and I think as companies building in this space our job is to abstract out that um sort of technology and really focus on the the benefits to the user be it consumer or the companies yeah and I think so I was when there's an ATT um I think I see a lot of for any OG mobile people I see a lot of similarities between the old mobile ecosystem days and you know metaverse and web3 and blockchain now so we some people remember we had disconnected mobile networks back in the day where in America I live in the States you couldn't text your friend on T-Mobile and if he was on Verizon they're all you couldn't connect with your people which seems crazy now and um The Innovation again from the music industry or IP holders on the web everything was getting stolen and then the mobile Innovation was to allow things to be purchased on a microtransaction basis using carrier networks to be put on Carrier billing so it's serving problems one of my first projects at at T was cross-border payments for that and we had the Filipino use that other thing so everything it feels like everything old is new again and I think if we can really focus now more consumer people it feels are coming into the space if we really focus on either brand use cases you know a lot of the brands now can't reach their consumer due to what app you know Apple's doing so they need to find a new way which is a wallet is a great way to reach your end consumer and engage them that's that's a great use of web3 that has nothing really to do with heavy technology well it's a you know relatively simple they can be downloaded for different use cases and then Brands can have a direct relationship with their fans and provide value and engage them so you know we were a sponsor of the Olympics 20 years ago with um McDonald's and we were it was like the first mobile marketing campaign we're on 500 million tray liners and happy meals and it was the first short code and I was thinking that the battum one that just happened you know with 250 million Chris back it's kind of repeating itself again so I think if we can now all focus on great use cases how do we get money to places where people can't get money transferred in it and again that Roblox reference a lot of our developers were in either young so they didn't have bank accounts and that's why they love Robux and kept it in that in that currency or they were in unbanked and they were in areas of the world where they couldn't and they and they couldn't move it to people across the world in in Fiat so it was again it's these tangible use cases where creators want to create they're kind of at their generally are they young out of the ecosystem so having a currency and tokens that are tangible for the Creator economy I feel is going to be the biggest on-ramp in the next again year two years three years and then great use cases happening in the back end to allow things that we already know are happening to make more efficient if you look at the right ecosystem and the entertainment industry especially music talk about a business that was created in the digital era I mean it's like super super archaic how rights get paid if they're any artists or people for me it's like a spaghetti soup and it came out of very local businesses almost like Town town to region region to country country to you know continent so there are huge efficiencies that we can just realize with the technology thinking about improving things that don't have to be very sort of from the rooftop decentralized not do centralized like just getting on and innovating and creating great experiences for consumers and more efficiency for companies yeah that's a good point Michael yeah do you want to add on the opportunities for work now and what you do yeah so I mean in terms of use cases I tend to look at like what's the big picture first and you know when you look at web 3 I mean I think one of the most exciting things that like everyone would agree on is like all the smartest people people that I see all are either in web 3 or want to go to web3 and so you look around at the talent and it's always like wait a second you know like you go back through time through all the trends and you know at one point all the smartest people wanted to like build hobbyists personal computers and then you got you know apple and Microsoft and whatever and you kind of like look at like where are the smartest people going and they're going to web3 and so it's kind of interesting because like if you you know say you just got a new job like in you know HR and recruiting at a web 3 company you you literally have almost the opposite problem of like a traditional you know uh like tech company where suddenly everybody wants to join your company everyone's excited to like leave big Tech and leave their boring job and so you're sort of like great wow like the recruiting part is a lot easier um but then this this other thing is like suddenly really hard where it's like well hold on a second you know we have a vesting token Grant uh you know we're paying people in in Native tokens maybe plus some ethereum we're employing people all over the world and then all the base basic stuff that you just expect to work it's like go get your payroll provider you know go go get your kind of HR consultant you know this stuff is just off the shelf Suddenly It's not off the shelf and so these people are like who are in charge of this they're like wow I went from you know feeling like I could never do my job because it was so hard to find Talent it's almost the opposite here's all this talent and I don't even know how to pay them in a way where they get like health insurance or like they can pay their taxes or they can even prove to their landlord they have a job right it's like can you imagine as an individual trying to go to someone and say hey I want to rent this apartment uh you know here's my wallet like there's a you know a lot of you know a lot of you know Salon in there like you know can I can I can I get something and the answer is sort of like what what the heck are you smoking like I I might rent someone an apartment personally me if I had a room in my house by looking at their wallet but that that's like the 0.001 and so what's so interesting I think and the common theme Here is um there's all these details it's like what are the rails like what what is the basic way that you do things that like seemed easier in in like the old you know way call it the web 2 the you know the previous world and suddenly it's like heart again and and all that blocking and tackling and that includes compliance with regulation like getting that done like that's the hard work that people you know aren't really looking at like they look at the big picture all the smart people want to move over they don't look at kind of the details which is like okay we got to build these layers and so um you know one common thing here on this panel I think is like we're here building those layers and I think that's why a lot of people are in the room today and why a lot of people are in web3 and so for us building the layer of like how do you compensate your employees how do you give them health insurance how do you help them pay their taxes it's not great you know sort of like cocktail hour conversation to be honest like it makes me the most boring person in the room uh but it's necessary work that enables an even faster flow of talent into the industry and so that's where I get excited the most so I'm I'm definitely you're not boring I think definitely that's on my hit list of things to do and I think that's definitely a challenge to a point of like I'm crossing over and we've got we're setting up a foundation and we've got to set this up and there's a lot of you know it feels in the beginning like a lot of Cayman Island stuff so I think that challenge whether it's won a perception Challenge and there's also sort of a logistics challenge which is what you're solving so I think it's not it's not boring at all and it is super necessary but that's my point where there's all this pent-up demand people feel it's the right way there's this momentum but it's like allowing the on-ramp to be easy for to just I want to hire a bunch of people how do I do and it shouldn't be super complicated or feel a little dodgy or whatever people think it should just be normal and there should be the old brand equivalents as we're replacing a Spotify and a Netflix so there'll be the new Netflix and the new version of I can't remember all the hiring people that do in your space but you're the new version of that and they're just doing it more efficiently and effectively to serve the needs of the new industry I love it um no I was going to say it's it's kind of this balance of trying to replicate that it would exists in in the current Industries like HR taxes all that kind of stuff and it's more than that it's trying to innovate on it to make it better in in the web 3 world right so if I think about it from Identity how do we make it better easier more private more distributed so that you know when you move into the web 3 world and leverage it you're not reliving the same challenges that exist in the web tool so I think if it's not Betty you shouldn't be doing it but that's the point but I think it's um and some of it it's the hybrid so we're more of a hybrid so we're taking an existing solution and moving people who are already getting an experience that they like in quote-unquote web 2 and bringing web3 features in so the question for the newbies is like can you be net new or the the old guy is going to start innovating and doing the new stuff in their current business so then that that's going to be interesting of the net new versus the hybrid yeah yeah I I think that that's a a good kind of point there because I think at this time right now that there might be a need for I mean there is a need for more of the web to establish companies to come in and bring in their users bring in the kind of volume and the also the quality of the the um the work for example gaming I think crypto uh the more like native crypto uh developers I'm not sure they're they're great at building um games to be honest I think you know it might take a large gaming company with that experience and then you know launching it on web3 but I think yeah all of you here are giving such grounded perspectives on where where early there's definitely something here but we need to lay the groundwork and build the foundations and that's a really good place to be um we've got I think maybe 10 minutes or less for some questions from the floor um we'd love to hear from you guys so does anyone have any questions and I believe there's some mic people yep there's a guy at the front right here please say your name where you what you do and then yeah ask a question uh hi I'm Mount spiter I'm a marketing automation specialist and I was wondering considering what's happening with FTX like let's say there's a scenario where more regulation is pushed with this in the short term like make it much more difficult to actually have the the speed of innovation that we have seen in the last couple of years because there would be much more red tape than there is right now who wants to take this Michael go um yeah I mean there's always this question about regulation it's like does it does it create a bunch of red tape um that makes it hard to innovate and um I think like we've seen this happen even in big Tech if you look at like social media you know there's a lot of much needed regulation around data privacy and things like that but the result for anyone who's worked in those companies or like worked with those companies it sort of went from like oh yeah there's this one lawyer on the floor everyone knows to like this is a floor of lawyers and like where's the engineer right and you know I I think though what a lot of people Miss is that regulation on average tends to favor the incumbents and tends to work against um you know the people innovating but um I do think there's the potential that this might be a little bit different in that um right now the you know one of the issues is that like there's no certainty and and I think it's not so much about like what are the regulations it's that um you know as a retail customer you have no certainty about like what's going on with the exchanger on and you know as a company you know if you're if you have a token you have no certainty about like am I making a security or a commodity it's sort of like you know this is Schrodinger's coin like we won't know until you know the SEC looks at it you know three changes later in their Administration it's sort of like nobody knows and so that uncertainty I think is like the biggest problem we have today and you know we can see where the regulation comes down kind of they could be here or here or here and those all have implications right but but the thing that they all have in common is that it'll be like a discreet place that then the rest of the industry can kind of you know build around and so in any event I do think that like going from uncertainty to some certainty will be helpful yeah just on you know FTX um we spent a lot of time servicing the crypto industry and and what we we've seen in evolution over the last couple of years is this kind of bifurcation of you know a lot of exchanges and this relates to kyc any money laundering and transparency you know knowing that regulation is going to come and putting the infrastructure in place to be ahead of it and to build the transparency to build the brand and then you have a number of exchanges or number of platforms that are avoiding it and and so the question is is it going to slow down Innovation um you know by definition it slows down something but the issue about an innovation if there can't be trust and transparency and usage then there's there's nothing to innovate on so I I do think it is coming in a thoughtful way and I think this will highlight a bunch of new either self-policing or new regulations that will come but eventually it needs to come but hopefully in a thoughtful way in a collaborative way in a better way than has existed elsewhere I think on the topic of Regulation right it's not binary like good or bad um it's really how the regulation comes into play and how it's created is extremely important and that's the Nuance that you know makes the biggest difference right in terms of how it impacts so I mean if you look at there's such a big broad spectrum around the world right you have you know outright bands in China you have in the US regulation by enforcement you have done the European micro right markets in crypto assets legislation which is this in a really Landmark it's a harmonized way of regulating the space in a very you know relatively large jurisdiction that we have never seen anywhere else globally around the world which I think is very um you know we upload that effort uh honestly and then UK is kind of trying to catch up to that in a way you know has the right intentions but maybe a little bit slow and with the whole political turmoil maybe lost kind of the momentum to really act in it but you know I'm confident we'll get there so you have this like whole spec room but I would even argue that I think when done right in partnership with industry with a focus on again protecting consumers but not you know creating that safety security for people to be comfortable to get into the space it can I think even like stimulate adoption of the space for your again average sort of consumer and companies Banks right banks are such an important part of the ecosystem they do want to come in their risk management policies practice the process they've all been created obviously in a very different regulatory environment they do want to come in but they have to make sure that the regulation is there and they're they're following it so I think um I think again none of the companies I think can move along like this is an ecosystem play and we're seeing the ecosystem evolve but first and foremost fundamentally regulation downright can really unlock the crypto sort of utility to come in place yeah and no beating the dead horse I think the same thing but I think regulation could be the big unlock right because there are a few people who are very comfortable building with no rules and kind of wild there's this um Festival in the desert called Burning Man it feels like it's the Burning Man movement a lot of people I would never go out there there's no shop what do I mean I can't pay for anything it sounds crazy but you get 80 000 people going to the desert and having fun and partying so it feels like that's where at that moment which gets a group of people but in terms of really mainstreaming I think to allow if you if you have an idea for a business and you want to start it basic ideas like Michael was saying how can I hire people it can't be that complicated I want to get arrested like what's all this offshore stuff this seems crazy can I get so there's basic stuff in terms of the operational side but in terms of Regulation you know you don't really want to start a company and then you know the Ripple is is fighting the fight I mean it's it's a it's a it's a wild ride so I think once that can get hopefully sorted out or have a little bit more clarity I feel there's going to be a massive unlock where all those smart people who are are already working in the space I think there are a bunch of other 11 000 more smart people from meta available as of yesterday so I think there are a bunch of people who want to get in and I think it's just demystifying uh and and again dejargoning and having a little bit more ground rules and regulation then I think there will be a massive from 10 years I think hopefully the Innovation we've had in 10 years can be replicated in a year I think once the the unlock happens no that's interesting I think um yeah for some of the more like uh yeah web3 natives or or crypto natives uh sometimes regulation is not top of their mind um but I I like the way you put it John that it could be the great unlock if we really want to go mainstream because everyone talks about Mass adoption but yeah we need Regulators to come along with that um kind of got two minutes so each person in the panel has 30 seconds um what uh we've still got two more months for the rest of the year but it's 2023 just around the corner um what are you all looking forward to seeing in 2023 John we can or or Michael start with you I'm just really excited to see what brings back the next cycle right like in the last cycle eventually no one knew we kind of had a bear market and then it was sort of like defy and then it just came back and and the talent flooded in and the money flooded in and Innovation happened and I think what's so cool is it's going to be something and it's probably something that's being built right now that we don't yet know what it is it could be Dows in a big way I don't really know but I'm just really excited to see it play out because you know these Cycles always happen and it's going to be something really cool yeah I I guess I have enough gray hair to think back to the.com Boom which you know there's a lot of nonsense but there's a lot of innovation and and the ones that came through that led Innovations for 10 or 20 years and and I feel like we're going to see that again I think there's a lot of innovation web 3 a lot of real companies solving real problems and I just look forward to coming out of this kind of winter or this kind of cloud over the whole industry and just seeing some of these really interesting uh transformative companies you know emerge and I believe there's going to be transformation over the next 10 or 20 years again and I have just two words clear regulation we've seen that you know coming up to the agenda but apart from Michael which I think is fantastic you know UK us we still need to see that tangibly materializing so that's what I would love to see wait can I ask Micah though like bands you know like foreign backing of stable coins in Europe so like what happens to usdc it's I mean I want to see what happens there everyone who has usdc will know what to do so to your point though I think there's going to be a coming you know sort of conflict right away between regulation and real world usage in just a few months and so again if if metaverse is now part of web three a metaverse prediction I think for next year I think you're going to see some new platforms coming out that are more that's called the open metaverse that will not be about scarce land and limited demos and it will be fully open with with reasonable commercial rakes um and on the back of that you'll see Mass adoption across a kind of traditional web 3 and metaverse of Brands and advertisers and I think that will start to drive a bunch of new companies we haven't had new companies materially in the last few years um and mass adoption with these sort of wallet where it's not really a wallet and people don't know about it and then hopefully we'll also see which we're gunning for a consumer success in sectors like sports and gaming and music that people can point to going oh those guys have not like 200 users but they have like a couple of million users or there's and there's a part of 10 million and 50 million so I think I'm excited for 2023.

awesome thank you so much can everyone give um Steve Michael Cindy and John a round of applause as we look forward to the web 3 Industry in 2023 all right thank you guys