Don't Die Network State: Bryan Johnson & Balaji Srinivasan - TOKEN2049 Dubai 2024

okay everybody so I think uh well you you had a question for the audience yeah okay so um a thought experiment for you uh imagine you have access to an algorithm that would give you the best physical mental spiritual health of your life in exchange for that access you do what the algorithm says you go to bed when it says you eat what it says let's just keep this to Health and Wellness in food not your thoughts if you had that option how many of you would say yes how many of you would say no that was not the whole room one more time if you had access to an algorithm the best health of your life physical mental spiritual would you say yes to the algorithm raise your hand a lot of yeses and no okay cool quite a few yeses very surprising I've been holding this dinner at my house for the past few years a conversation that takes two and a half hours and we explore the future of Being Human and we explore the base reality of all of our beliefs and assumptions and that's the core part that kind of throws it out so today Y bology and I want to talk about the future of Being Human as through the lens of the network State yeah so um the way uh you know that I I I was phrasing it was if you had a pill that was like o zic but you could just take it every day and not just uh lose weight but live forever would you you take it or not and if not your funeral um and uh and I kind of think that might become possible you know I I I I will take some credit for getting Brian into crypto um I was in BIO and then I got into something finan related which is crypto and Brian was at brain tree and found and sold brain tree which is in fintech and then got into bio so we sort of were like ships passing the night a little bit um and the relationship in my view between these things that seem totally different like crypto and longevity is with crypto you don't want uh to gradually lose your uh wealth to inflation and with longevity you don't want to gradually lose your health to degeneration and they're both actually a rejection of the establishment like rejection of the FED rejection of the food pyramid to build something better so we had that conversation I think you know you started getting much more into it after that yeah yeah bology and I we we both um were deep thinking deeply about the future of Being Human and the future of intelligent existence and it was interesting we met just a few months ago and we had arrived at the exact same conclusions we had taken entirely different paths to get there they were unrecognizable but we have the same assumptions and so today yeah we're excited to be together on stage to talk about this for the first time yeah that's right and I think um you know one thing that Brian's talked about is if you know he's thinks of as an algorithm that uh determines his life on a daily basis it's like the smarter version of Brian that doesn't eat cookies and what have you you want to talk about that a little bit Yeah so the the context of BR blueprint is a couple years ago um I did this thought experiment where I imagined being present with the 25th Century and you're listening to them Converse and they're observing the early 21st century this time right now and they identify what we did in this moment that allowed intelligence to thrive in this part of the Galaxy and so what do they say when they when they compress our Century to just a few things what do they say and and the output of that contemplation was we figured out that we had achieved the level of intelligence that the only thing we care about is continued existence that we went from Death as inevitability to some unknown Horizon on extending our our health wellness and life and so to do that I hired a team of 30 medical professionals and we comb through all the scientific literature on everything that ever been done to extend health span lifespan we graded the evidence and we put all the evidence inside of me and then I became the most measured person in human history and we tried to create a bi olcal age score for every organ in my body and then we systematically built how to create therapies to slow my speed of aging and reverse aging damage that's happened and I'm really surprised at what we've accomplished over the past three or four years I would not have believed how successful we've been and so I'd say that uh it started as an experiment as an open question and I'm more bullish today than I was a couple years ago I think it really is our time and place that we can be the first generation to call into question the inevitability that death is always been present for our ancestors and you know what's funny about that is a lot of people say that they want universal healthcare but then you get them say okay what about you know live forever and and it's not even that they say oh that's not feasible they'll say oh that's not desirable and you're like wait a second if you want Universe why would you not want that right and it's because they have this weird thing where they're like oh I want to extend from 75 to 8 five some vague notion in their head they don't actually want to solve the problem they want to just kind of move it around the plate like a mashed potatoes around a plate you know um the other thing is that your point on sort of algorithmic self-governance where an algorithm sort of tells you an algorithm that you've consented to that you've ridden that you've have some input into an algorithm helps you govern yourself I think is actually quite allied with crypto concepts of algorithmic societal governance like Bitcoin restricting the ability of governments to print or smart contracts and Dows and so and so forth and there's probably some connection there yeah I was trying to I basically built a protocol so when I was doing this I wasn't using the terminology smart contracts and DOW but I basically was building those same things computationally and so I was acknowledging that I as a animal with passions was not I was not a capable of always doing things in my best interest so a 7 p.m. came and I wanted to treat because my favorite show just dropped I would engage in these behaviors that would cause accelerated aging and progression of disease and so I thought is there an opportunity to build a superior system of intelligence that takes better care of me than I can myself like could I become a Dao and so what I tried to do is create new members of intelligence and they were my organs so measuring my heart and my lungs my liver my pancreas and every other organ I gave them power through measurement to say what they needed and so I fired my mind my mind was no longer the source of authority on deciding what to do it was the algorithm and so it's very analog it's not the case that this thing is running inside of me but it still was trying to appr proof of concept of this General observation that if algorithms are going to do a better job in basic functions like maybe driving cars and reading images that why could an algorithm better care for my own health and so that's what we've been playing with uh as like a new evolutionary feature of Our Lives yeah and you know you could imagine something like proof of work at nfts that actually start scaling that algorithm so that you or others that opt into it could start seeing Oh I actually did this I have a GitHub streak like thing it proves that it was done um you know something else I want to talk to you about is uh it's not just the you know health wealth connection between crypto and Longevity it's also the the parallel system aspect right like crypto is parallel Finance longevities like parallel medicine where just like traditional Finance we've got charts that go up and down but a lot of the fundamental assumptions are inverted like you know we have self custody whereas everything is you know custodies with banks and we have um no uh we have 100% Reserve crypto exchanges and banks have fractional Reserve many of those assumptions are inverted even if there's other surface similarities so longevity starts by saying for example don't die which is totally different than theut traditional medical system which is basically di slow right and uh they don't want you to die fast but they do want you to Die slow in what sense of that term uh but another thing that uh longevity is big on the traditional medical system is not as big on is routine biomarkers for everything and you've talked about that a bit in terms of your biomedical age can you explain what that is yeah we we Endeavor to use measurement as the impetus for all things so do Baseline measurement measurement after protocols and we tried to Endeavor that any measurement protocol that proved e efficacy in trying to determine a biomarker we do it so uh as I mentioned before no human history has ever been as measured as I have been and we try to use this data as the the navigation tools on how to actually do something no one had ever done and so yeah I think that the parallel is there yeah I mean one thing is we know what's going on on binance and we know what's going on in in Bangalore we don't know what's going on in our own bodies or it's we're just starting to get there with the Quantified Self stuff with the you know blood glucose monitors and the smart scales and so on and those measurements the next level of that is what you've done where every single thing that could potentially predict aging you Benchmark yourself against and you try to reverse it there's always a possibility of a good Hearts law kind of phenomenon though where you bring those metrics down but they're no longer correlated with underlying variable but you know if you're doing it for enough of them maybe it is yeah like maybe a few of the metrics to give you guys an idea on the context is um a few things that we track so for example my my speed of Aging as looking at DNA methylation patterns is currently 64 I started over one and so one is a normal speed of Aging there's a clock inside of your body that tells you how fast you're aging and so we've driven it down to 64 and of the 23,000 s samples in this database i r I'm better than 100% of 50 40 and 30 year olds and 99% of 20 year olds in terms of my speed of aging and so it's still a silver standard measurement on its way to be gold standard but still it's interesting that we've tracked for several years a few others that are interesting my cardiovascular capacity is the top 1.5% of 18 year olds uh my total bone Minal density top 99.0 uh top .

2% of 30y olds which is age mene for the test same with my strength same with my body fat and so we've used these biomarkers to reference age graphs to say what would be Peak Health my chronological age is 46 but what are my biological ages and so we've used we've leveraged all these biomarkers to say uh how do you actually quantify age in a person in addition to blood and blood glucose monitors and scales how do you truly look at the functional and anatomical health of a human and so it's a new model and understanding how we look at our our speed of Aging our biological age and our functional capacity yeah and I think like um what's interesting about that is you can start benchmarking everything uh as to whether it's actually neutral really negative or very positive there's anything that stuck out to you is actions that were really harming your markers or helping your markers or things that that stuck out to you yeah so on this point so those of you who are interested in this I've open sourced the entire thing it's protocol. Brian johnson.com all the diet and the supplements there all of the testing protocols all of my data so it's there some of it is hard to replicate but the majority of things are there and they're easy to do it's about uh sleep and diet and exercise uh so if those of you who are interested in poking around this thing I've tried to make a blueprint that is easy and accessible and free for everyone yeah and you know one thing um that's kind of interesting is we you know we know a lot of successful entrepreneurs and and investors and so and so forth I have my own theories on this but why do you think other people haven't done in the in the grand scale of things a few million bucks is not that much money but there's a lot of people who want to just die with hundreds of millions or billions of dollars and they haven't even tried to like spend the money on something like this why do you think that that happened why was there a market asymmetry there why isn't why didn't somebody try to do what you were doing beforehand I think most humans do want immortality and they try to seek immortality through children or for work accomplishments or for you know putting your name on a building I think most people do want their Essence to live on in some form or fashion and so they've chosen those paths it's never been possible to actually try to achieve endless tomorrows and so the same ambition and love we have for existence and continuation could actually materialize in a functional form that everyone changes and so like the don't don't die is an observation that it is the most played game by every human on planet Earth every second of every day it's played more than capitalism it's played more than crypto it's played more than religions it is the zeroth order game that every one of us plays every second of every day and so it's the future is simply getting much better at not dying and it's also solving this really weird situation we have where we will walk across the street and look both ways before we do so but then we'll do so by while smoking a cigarette so we don't want to die just we we not right now but we will take these tradeoffs these small infractions that may cost some in the future may cost us some life points that's interesting um that's a good way of expressing it like for example you're you're playing the Don't Die game at your body level as an individual but then you're running a company and you're also playing don't guy at the company level because you don't want the company to die and one thing that you and I have both experienced at various times is the demands of the company you're spending don't die points there that are debiting from the body yeah right yeah exactly yeah I mean so how would you play that game if you were playing the game right this is the how' I play well yeah you know what what's happened to me at various points is there's hard deadlines that or there's things in business where there's people who are relying on you and so you get fat as a function of that right like this and so what you then want to do is you actually want to figure out ways to uh sort of communicate to employees or to stakeholders or whatever that actually their long-term interests are aligned with yours in terms of health where um it's kind of like an investor who is long-term aligned and he wants a company to be healthy of course you can overdo this and people can take so many mental health days that they never work or whatever right but there's something to that of sustainable exertion and I think the biomarkers could sort of show quantitatively if you're actually redlining something or if you've actually got more in the tank potentially so that could kind of give an estimate like we people know it with sleep they kind of know if they're really low on sleep they don't know it on other stuff it's not really measured as well perhaps yeah youology one thing I love that you did is I was approaching this uh like the future of our existence from a perspective of from the bottom up like how do you build this from an individual perspective and you took it from a different perspective exactly so we you came top down I went bottom up and so the things that we struggle with on a day-to-day basis you're identifying The Source the for example if we want to get a new therapy you have to go through the entire regulatory process in the given jurisdiction you're in right and you're then you're get entangled and so uh how how would you say um how does what you're doing with the network State philosophy structure complement don't die it's great question so you know we were talking about this yesterday but uh there's don't die at the individual level don't die at like the community level and then maybe don't die at the country level right so don't die at the individual level is blueprint and everything that you've been doing and there's a bunch of Step there then at the community level you could imagine you know even a family but then you know a few dozen people in a startup Society a few hundred people even a few thousand that start doing the program together and they can crowd fund and purchase blueprint or something similar to those kinds of meals they get a gym they start tracking metrics they have dashboards and that's something that the community actually cares about and now you start getting something where you don't have to have the willpower of a founder CEO to do it because that's I think one of the not hidden variables but an important variable to do it as an individual now you know the community is helping you then one level up is you have enough Collective energy as a community you can change laws of a country to legalize um all the biomedical treatments and things that could further don't die right and that brings us to don't die Network state right the don't die network was the topic of of this uh thing right so go ahead why don't you talk about that what are we doing go ahead what are we doing what's the don't die Network date yeah so we've been talking about this we're just sort of flirting with the idea of um you know uh doing something together collaborating on something and uh you know we'd love to if you folks want to reply to us on farcaster or Twitter and you you'd like to see something like that go ahead and do that um and uh we we may put something out there you know maybe you have some thoughts go yeah so we the contemplation is if if you buy into this don't die or even if you just buy into basic health and wellness there's no government in the world currently taking care of you in a way that is going to actually get you there it is extraordinarily hard as you probably all know how many of you have had a blood draw okay how many of you have not had a blood draw like a basic panel a lot of people have so you if you've gone through the process you you know how hard it is you have to convince your doctor you have to make sure they can do the actual markers sometimes Insurance a big is Hassle and so we're trying to figure out if you want to build a network State and deliver for people don't die you need a whole collection of things basic tests therapies medical advice you need access to cuttingedge things you're on the on the front edge so we're trying to figure out how to build this globally to give people access to the full stack that I've built over the past uh couple years with blueprint and so combining these two concepts we think it really is it's interesting that in the coming years I personally think we're going to experience several meaningful exogenous shocks to our world systems and when that happens there's going to be an opening of us saying what are we going to do as a species what game are we going to play how do we organize ourselves as we incre create increasingly powerful tools of AI where do you point them do you point them at getting better at War do you point them at you're trying to make more money we'll have these really fundamental questions we need to pose the species and the the contemplation is don't die it is potentially The Guiding philosophical economic moral political and ethical framework of our time that that we can as a species say it's foolish for us to be doing War it's foolish for us to be committing these acts of self-destruction we really it makes sense to lock in on a new minia making game of continuing existence and seeing what we could build together so that's really the grand plan is we're we're vying for the operating system of the species as we March into this new era that's right I think you know if Bitcoin is a critique of monetary policy don't die is also implicitly a critique of medical policy and El Salvador was the first country that actually took that critique to heart and actually at least has partially inverted its system to go from inflation to deflation from money printing to to hard money and you could imagine whether we have to build a bottom up or top down or some combination where we build a strong enough community and then we have a country that adopts it which you know is possible there's so many things you change in medical policy and you know you go from you know some governments used to track and they nowadays they just look at the stock market which is its own problems uh they look at the stock market rather than people's actual um you know net worth many people have negative net worth but the stock market goes up and you know what if they looked not just uh at healthcare costs they actually look at life expectancy what if they look not just at life expectancy but life infinity life eternity right and that's just a different kind of state with a different mission statement and a different set of metrics it looks at and maybe they'll be have something like what El Salvador was to bitco into cryptocurrency we have something that is that to longevity yeah exactly at a state level if you say don't die you could eily apply it to the planet so you could take the same protocol that we've done from my body you can apply it to planet Earth so planet Earth is my body you know replace my body with planet Earth you measure the Earth with millions of data points every second how's the coral reef doing how's the biosphere and all the capacity doing you look at the evidence on what is an optimal biosphere State you implement the protocol and you repeat again and again as you as you work your way through understanding what is a sustainable biosphere and the same thing is true with AI when you build AI what's the objective function where do you point it so really it slices across every vertical from states to Technology Building to our personal health and wellness to our communities should we yeah and you know we actually have some proof of beyond your yourself we have actually some uh proof of concept at the community and even country level like we just went to uh prospera and Vitalia in Honduras and um you want to talk about that or should I talk about the go so there's a startup society called prospera uh think of it as an L1 and Vitalia like an L2 running on the L1 like a longevity focused neighborhood and they brought um me and Brian and nille and uh Zuko of zcash and and da McClure few other investors and other people there we put I put a video of it on on Twitter a few months ago and Prospero because it has a special economic zone for biotech call it a special Innovation Zone they have a company there minicircle and minicircle has an injection which basically it's experimental all that kind of stuff um but uh a couple of friends of ours took that injection and what it does is it's basically a plasmid reversible plasmid that puts out a different kind of protein that makes you super jacked okay different than steroids and so on and and so uh farb who took it basically is in like really great shape after a couple months and Jeff Bezos the Amazon founder is following him for updates because he's very interested in this right so that's a great story of now to be clear could there be side effects there could be side effects but no plane crashes no planes no train crashes no trains you know if if there weren't people who were test pilots we' never be able to fly uh if bunge jumping is legal if skydiving is legal if it's possible to do euthanasia you can kill yourself so why can't you improve yourself right so going into it with this conscious idea that we're going to take risks to maybe have some side effects but maximize effects is important and those people maybe you know there might be side effects can't say there won't be any risk right boosting our risk tolerance means increasing our reward expectance you know so that's how we could think about it from the jurisdictional you need risk tolerant jurisdictions I think that's the next step for us after getting more individuals into this should we we have seven minutes left should we do rapid fire questions and see where people are at yeah sure so where are you guys at what do you think about all this stuff are there's microphones uh to for Q&A or somebody who's got mics or if not just shout it out oh great yeah go ahead and start again is there any potential state or just geographical place that you can Envision to be something that uh Ecuador was for Bitcoin could you hear what he said no I'm so sorry okay okay I'll I'll I'll I'll go closer so uh when talking about uh a state that can be for longevity something that Ecuador was for Bitcoin do you do you see any potential potential place or state that can be maybe one of that popup cities or something like that yeah sure well yeah I mean uh prospera Vitalia is already doing something there um basically he's saying what as I said El Salvador is to bitcoin as blank would be to longevity what is blank are their candidates so prospera is like it's not a full country obviously but it's a neighborhood and it's a special economic zone I actually think a lot of the crypto jurisdictions are also into this so I don't think it's a wholly new set of things I would say I would bet it overlaps 70% because they have if they're open-minded enough to get into crypto they're probably open-minded enough to get into new bio um but like Bhutan is another interesting one they're like one of the happiest countries in the world the uh the the head of Bhutan has been Bitcoin mining for a long time that came out he published that recently there's a lot of places Pockets around the world of this kind of innovation opening up question hello hello hello okay thank you Brian what you are doing for the world I am in the blueprint like nine months so it's amazing and I recommend every of you guys to go the same Journey uh because I also have a lot of issues from my own health I'm also doing the business so we know how it is uh also combining with the crypto so definitely what I learned from that is like the stepbystep process like everything what we are doing also on the business so don't go fully from the day one because you just very fast maybe go out but start from broccoli nauy pudding very amazing if you want to eat something delicious and now even Brian make specific package that you can make it easier I'm still waiting because probably some customs uh so I'm going the old way but my question Brian to you is uh what is the next stages and the plans for what you are doing for for now for the blueprint and for the whole uh improvements because you see that so so s so you're saying what is the next phase yes next phase of of of why don't we answer that yeah it's a a shift in identity for all of us so when people say they want to improve their sleep they're looking for specific tactics you know like uh round sleep Sleep Quality and my advice is always to to go at the identity level that consider yourself a professional sleeper and something even basic like today we all showed up on time at exactly the time we're supposed to meet no one was 5 minutes late and if we were 5 minutes late we'd apologize we are late but when you're when you go to bed at your time and if you're two hours late you don't apologize to yourself and so this the entirety of this thing is that as a species we have a certain identity about who we are what we do why we do it and the invitation here is to remap our identity to be a different species to to be what we want to become and so we can talk about these things tactically and from a very uh uh prescriptive perspective but it really comes back to our shared identity so the next objective is for as many of us that we can get on to say we do recognize this extraordinary moment we're in on the eve of giving birth to an intelligence far more capable than we are what do we do as a species and don't die as the base layer but what we can build on top so yeah I think this is a call for all of us to come together and say we can build an extraordinary existence that you know even exceeds our imagination so that's that's where I think the next move is is that we all adopt that together as many as we can and also in terms of just on the Sleep Point specifically um the going up from the individual level individual level is willpower to sleep at night Community level might mean all lights turn on off at 9:00 p.m. in the community and you know Jinga university has something where the internet turns off I think at like 10 p.

m. or 11:00 p.m. so no nights no lights no internet maybe no phone and then people just don't have glowing lights so they get to sleep earlier so there's like Community kinds of things you could opt into that might improve sleep yep we are our community yeah cool hello hi so I'm going to ask the elephant in the room but respectfully I actually want my answer to be yes to the algorithm because I'm I actually on a wheelchair right now for a spinal cord condition so if there's a way to protect smart contracts for malicious actors uh what would be the way to protect the algorithm for anything malicious even self-destructing maybe a nation state another nation state coming in as a trojan horse so that uh people could be comfortable with using it y i i well first of all I I hope we get more regenerative medicine to to help you I think um I think stem cells and stuff could do a lot there I I don't think I fully understood the question which is is there an analog of a c well actually you know what now I do I've got I've got an example the food pyramid so if you if if your question was is there an example of a nation state uh having uh attacking its population with food that's the US government with the food pyramid tell telling you to eat lots of carbs is actually that okay so that's an example of a back door that like basically like INF fattened hundreds of millions of people so your thought experiment has actually become real and the answer is we actually have to build source of Truth outside of that Co ahead yeah I'd say like religion uh you know always promised us Miracles you know we read the historical texts and I think that we are demonstrating we can perform legitimate miracles in medicine and the coming at a faster pace and they're more impressive than they ever been and so to me personally we like everyone's got something that they're trying to fix or whatever in theirself I'm very bullish on that in terms of how to keep these things in check um I think is your primary question of like how do we trust the system is so when when the United States of America said we're going to become a democracy from this Monarch relationship with the with the UK uh with the British it was this idea that we are going to take control of our own country and then we've been fighting about democracy for over 200 years so like what does it mean and how do you solve the conflicts the same is true with don't die like we if you just set the premise that that's the base agreement we're going to fight about it until the end of time of what it actually means in terms of the algorithm I basically I pose the question to myself like I don't trust myself I don't trust to keep junk food in my house I don't trust myself to keep these things around so as an entity I I not only do I not trust the algorithm I don't trust me and so I was trying to build a computational system that kept me in check so that I wouldn't violate what I really cared about and so I think you can stack all these layers that we can computationally build systems of trust that keep our worst at Bay and that leverage our best and we can do this throughout Society we've had we have low our technology to do to do conflict resolution and keep trust is pretty Antiquated but if we imagine new mathematical models on this conflict resolution you've got uh I guess it's like a really big topic but like I personally think that we will be able to do much better goal alignment and reconciliation with these new systems of computation it's going to require us to walk into a new space that is very unfamiliar and specifically it's going to challenge what we currently assume is our minds are the ultimate Authority in all things but our minds are not inherently trustworthy great I yeah all right if you guys want to see more on don't die Network State just reply to us on forecaster orx and follow us there yeah and yeah I would love two things for you one is we're going to hold a don't die Summit in Los Angeles uh sometime in May so if you want to attend that watch out for an announcement and then two I'd love to hear your feedback on what we talked about today uh I'd love to hear where you're at what your observations are what you like what you dislike we're really trying to figure out how to explain this talk about it uh and incorporate all your perspectives so uh maybe shoot us a note on social media great thanks everyone thanks