The Solana Treasury Bet: From Balance Sheets to Ecosystem Flywheel - TOKEN2049 Singapore 2025

All right, gentlemen, welcome. Thank you for having us tooken 2049 crew and thank you for all for all the people who stayed back uh to listen to this session. Excited to talk to you folks about DAX then the future of what public markets um and crypto look like at this uh intersection. So, I think let's kick it off by just explaining DATs to folks uh who may not be that familiar with it. Uh maybe we can start off with you, Jason, if you want to go for it.

How would you explain what DATs are?

Yeah, absolutely. Well, first things first for all of us here, DATs are publicly traded vehicles and so do your own research. This isn't investment advice. I hate being the guy to have to say that, but that's very it's a very important fact for all of us. But that's are a way for foundations to actually work or I should say L1's to get access to the public markets.

So we started off becoming foundations or companies became L1's became foundations because nobody wanted to be a security. We now have a regulatory regime in the United States where many of these L1s and L2s are not securities. And so this is a way for those vehic for for those to get to the public markets to to people that haven't normally or wouldn't normally be exposed to this. And so it's a very powerful vehicle. And so it's just a way for a public company to acquire large amounts of a cryptocurrency and then trade on a public market.

Great. That's uh that's a good definition. And I guess the follow-up question would be um what are you seeing amongst institutional investors where why can't they just set up an institutional account and buy the underlying asset directly or is it amongst retail can do the same thing. What is the net benefit that uh dads bring and maybe you guys have different strategies so you can take turns to go through how you think about this.

I I I think the biggest thing is a a plumbing issue. So when you think about large money managers, a lot of the financial system globally, they're built to handle stocks, bonds, commodities, they have risk systems, clearing systems, markets for that. Crypto is different to them. And if you haven't been, you know, involved, it's almost a foreign language. And so now you've got a vehicle that fits into that model and gives those gives those institutions a way to to buy, to access markets, to express views.

And so it's powerful in that because it's not about so much the front end as it is the back end.

Yeah. I think in addition to being you know uh the polling issue, it's also a supply chain setup. The traditional you know capital market is obviously very deep and has multiple segmentation. There's a debt market, there's a mezzanine market, you know, there's a bond market. Uh all of them obviously somewhat linked to the equity markets uh which is deep and wide.

So when you create an equity vehicle that now is able to connect to all that supply chain in different forms and give people an exposure to that. You know if you think about this is this is a technical paradigm and people want exposure but through all these different instruments which feed their different needs. Some are doing asset liability you know mismatch and and hedging. So they don't have that exposure if they just hold the underlying uh in addition to obviously all the operational infrastructure they have to build to even deal with that. So this is another way to do to give it to that uh and obviously broadening access.

Um, on that note, Cosmo, uh, let's bring you in. I just want to understand how, uh, you folks got into it given that, you know, you're not traditionally public market participants. Is that fair to say, um, compared to the perhaps the others on this panel or on a relative scale?

Yeah, I think one of the things so it was pretty exciting when we first saw the first DAT come to us. Uh, I actually spent most of my career as a as a public equities investor. Um, and I think that's why DAT spoke to uh us in a way that it didn't for other crypto VCs when it started in early April. When I did the first deal, which was a salon of debt, uh, DeFi Dev Corp, uh, then, you know, no one was given the time of day. This was super non-conensus.

I thought, wow, there really is I really understand the equity rapper because that's what I've done all my life and only recently I've become a cryptocon. And there's a real way to bridge the two. Do I doing this? Um, I thought it'd be a oneanddone deal. Uh turns out that we say here 150 pitches later, you know, we made over half a billion dollars investments in these things that it's become what is now a massive industry because of exactly what Jason said, which is marrying uh Trafi and DeFi.

Um okay. Well, you folks are all doing Salana Dats and so um obviously nothing said here is investment advice and you should do your own research, but clearly every marginal dollar looking to invest in such an API for accessing let's say these crypto assets are going to be and you're competing for that marginal dollar between yourselves, right? And so um uh keen to hear your pitch on why Salana and how you did this. Assume you're in CNBC. You're going to take turns.

You have 60 seconds. They're short segments. And uh tell us why you picked Salana and what the why you're optimistic about the future and your time starts now.

Well, I I'll just say look, we are uh almost at the cusp of this complete technical paradigm, right? Which is going to be the backbone of at least we believe a big new financial rails, new settlement rails and potentially unlocking new business models. So now if you are a traditional investor, you want exposure to that. The similar way you're thinking about exposure to AI, you should be thinking about exposure to this equity. Salana is the best access to that.

Best environment, best computing environment to do that fast, cheap, accessible. And if you want a productive economy, ex leverage exposure, you have to go and find an equity vehicle which is taking advantage of that, which is forward industries. That's a team that's coming up with, you know, phenomenal stakeholders who are deep in technical R&D, uh, you know, understand the the ecosystem built on top of that and then go and derive value to the shareholder. So that's my pitch and you can't miss that out.

All right. Thank you very much. Um and you have also been jump has also been involved in Salana's uh

yeah that's my part of being the deeply technical. I mean jump is uh is a prolific builder in the space. We are uh you're writing to Salana second by validator client which is meant to bring immense capability to serve payments trading and multiple use cases. So we are deep in it uh and understand the infrastructure pretty well.

All right. Thank you. Uh so Jason I'm going to put you on the spot next. maybe a case about why Salana and you can face the camera which is the audience.

Yep. Absolutely. Why Salana? If you think about blockchains, blockchains are built to do certain things and we feel that Salana is ideal for the financial ecosystem, speed, throughput, all the all the onchain metrics that you can look at. It allows it to be a solid backbone for the the future of of of finance.

We talk about innovation. We talk about things that are happening. We think that broadly crypto blockchains are going to change the way the world does business and inside of finance Salana is very well positioned to take advantage of that based on the way it's designed and based on the on the people that are already interested and invested and so we think that that is is going to be the future of finance in a lot of ways.

Thank you very much Jason Cosmo all yours in three two and go for it. Yeah, look, when I'm on when I think about what DATs are, it's really about advocating to a new audience, right? We're not, as much as everyone here knows what Salana is, the broader world doesn't. And so, when I think about who we're trying to really attract at HST, we're trying to attract Trifi investors. And so, when I put on that lens, it's like, what's the PM pitch that would make any my friends at Tiger or Cotor or Tiger or or Well Rock or whatever, what what would they care about?

And in that in that sense, I go back to what was the biggest stock of my early career as an internet investor was Amazon. Amazon was built on one thing which is built on a very simple principle what Jeff Bezos always said which is there's this holy trinity of consumer wants. There are three things consumers wants that will never change. They want faster. They want cheaper.

They want more accessible. And that's what Salana is. Salana's faster than our existing rails. It's cheaper. It costs less than a fraction of a penny per transaction.

And it's accessible. Anyone with a mobile phone and a smartphone connection can access Salana. So it's faster, cheaper, more accessible. That clarity of vision, that simplicity of thesis is what gives people conviction to make a long-term long-term bet. And then specifically for Trafi guys, the only thing they care about is ultimately like these assets all have to follow the laws of gravity, which means they have to produce free cash flow.

And that's what makes Salana such a compelling pitch is I can go to someone and say Salana is an asset that produces $2 billion of free cash flow. That's an incredibly large business. It's growing 200% year-over-year and you're getting it for 50 times run rate earnings. like that is a compelling pitch for a trad.

All right, can we give these gentlemen a round of applause for walking through their pitches? I put them on the spot a little bit. So, thank you for uh indulging me in the audience. Um, David, you're the founder of uh an ecosystem uh cryptonative project and so you're coming at it from you know sort of our early roots as a internet native startup ecosystem that is now meet meeting capital markets. uh can you talk through what your expectations are from the DATs that are launching and how they can you know over time become ecosystem teams versus just a temporary phenomena in a bull market.

No, absolutely. When I started in 2021, this was like the era of pirates building on Salana. It was 75 developers was the meme back then. It was so desolate and we were one of the few teams around. You know, fast forward four years, Salana is the beast it is today from what everyone's talked about.

And I think this is a time where capital allocation becomes relevant. Becomes relevant when your fundamentals are strong and every slant team that started in 2021 went through a lot of We got punched in the face, got back up and here we are finally ready for this serious wave of public market allocations. So when you kill back a crypto company or a protocol, you have a labs company, you have a foundation. And a foundation is a very bizarre entity. It's created largely for regulatory reasons.

In my past life as a lawyer, you know, these things were very much charitable organizations. So without the right home for tokens, foundations were created as result of that. Now that's a very suboptimal vehicle to house anything in. You can't really market anything for a foundation. You can't talk about it.

You can't sell about it. And you can't really commercialize that vehicle. And for the first time, you have all these DAT companies which can be publicly traded. These are securities. There's no arbitrage all of a sudden that has to be jumped over.

And I think it touches uh a universe of investors and participants who historically haven't been able to touch crypto in the existing form. So I think

what would you what would you expect out of them? Like how could they show the the the commitment to the Salana network like your team has shown by building since 2021? What what is the reciprocal commitment? How could they commit to the network? Perhaps uh channeling public market liquidity to onchain liquidity or other ways.

I think it's simple. I think it's capital markets arbitrage. I feel like the rates that you're seeing on chain are far superior. You have products like Athena 20%, APY. These are things that do not exist in Tradfi.

And then I use that word sort of cautiously, but there's a gap. There's so much rich onchain yields that aren't discovered elsewhere. And I think it's a fantastic opportunity for all the allocators to to obviously assess these opportunities and partake in it.

Yeah. So this brings up an interesting point which is that you know these are not like ETFs where you know they're just buying the underlying and holding them. These are actively managed by a management team uh that is looking at the risk profile of a lot of these years that you know the average investor may not be um you know equipped to uh you sort of do diligence on and so there you're going to produce different outcomes between yourselves despite being what is a salon of debt. Is that right?

Yes.

Yeah. I think what's really special and going back to one of your earlier questions is that what separates an ETF from a DAT is it's really passive versus active management, right? Passive is great. You're welcome to go out there and buy spot passive soul. But if you want active management, if you want firms like Jump, Galaxy, Panta, managing your soul, maximizing what we can do with it, not just on the yield side, but on the balance sheet side of raising capital to grow your Salana per share.

That's why you invest in a debt and that's why they have the potential for meaningful outperformance over spot.

Yeah. And does this mean I guess like uh I'm I was going to come to you. Does this mean uh you know we've seen a massive outperformance of passive index funds just they're low cost they massively outperform actively managed funds. And in fact a lot of the actively managed funds shut down in the traditional like equity bond sort of like uh traditional asset portfolio. And except we have this weird world in crypto where active is the only thing that wins.

There is no like if you bought the top 10 market weighted thing from 2017, you're you know you don't have enough money to buy a a ticket to this conference. So how does that like um do you think active is making a comeback and will crypto drive that in the public markets as well?

Look uh you know I'm I'm a Chicago student so kind of you know efficient markets guy in in the broader capital markets or equity markets. you know it's it's a very old and scalable system where with enough information aspects to it and secondly a very deep uh uh uh ecosystem that kind of plays along uh and contributes to it. So it's pretty difficult for the active guys to kind of go and play and win consistently against the large passive information which is widely available. Having said that the onchain economy is a brand new economy being built today, right? So both the the kind of growth vectors that the onchain products are being building right now and what you can do with it.

The information is obviously a lot more prevalent in the guys who spend more time and have the risk appetite. Uh hence being able to do with active management versus a broad set of folks who can have the tools to access the same information and more be able to make smart decisions about it. So active management to deal with this new built onchain economy is going to be pretty important uh for at least foreseeable future. And at some point hopefully the goal of this thing is everyone accesses it in a simple transparent way and then maybe at that point you know passive makes sense. Uh so hence there's a period of time where active is going to be a significantly uh you know winning winning part of this thing.

Jason do you think uh

just one point on that really quick there's also a structural thing. So if you think about ETFs you have to be willing to to red meet your redemptions at any given point. And so you can't deploy that capital even if it's something as passive as as staking, transaction propagation, etc. You can't do that, right? Because somebody can show up tomorrow and say, "I need to redeem my money."

And and you have to offer that a vehicle like that doesn't have that. It's captive money. And so it allow it can accumulate soul per share in this case, but it also doesn't need to worry about meeting redemptions at any given point. It might trade at a discount. and it might trade at a premium and there are things that as as the management of a company that you can do to counteract that but you can deploy it and so it's a better vehicle.

I truly believe if you had asked me six months ago, I heated DATs as I've looked at it and I've thought about it. I think that DATs are going to do to ETFs what ETFs did to closed end funds and mutual funds because of that. Now,

sorry, can you explain that?

So, so ETFs were a better vehicle than closed end funds and mutual funds. I think that debts generally, it's going to start with crypto because we're the most innovative, but there's a world where you why would you want to buy a gold ETF that just sits there and bleeds a little bit when you can buy a gold ET, a gold DAT that actually does something that maybe produces a little bit of yield. And where you'll see the differentiation is that risk profile. There will be DATs that will take a lot of risk where they'll loop their strategy 10,000 times and you're levered to the hilt. And there'll be other ones that are going to be safe and easy, but are going to produce a better income stream than an ETF or even potentially holding it and managing it yourself.

You're outsourcing that for a very small fraction if done at scale.

Okay. Well, um, from a retail investor's perspective, you know, the the 60/40 portfolio hasn't worked for a while now. Um, at least for 5 years, something like this, where the 40 part of the bond portfolio is supposed to be, you know, risk-free return. it's ended up being a return-free risk because of inflation trading higher than uh you know nominal yields. Um so do they comp where does this fit in?

Like is it the bond part of the portfolio that they start to shave away at to get these sort of alternative assets in? Uh obviously again this is not investment advice just intellectually how does an investor think about portfolio allocation because they're seeing these coins they're seeing um ETFs they're seeing DATs and by the way the Goldman Sachs uh had a report recently where family offices are you know where the allocation for various family offices are between equity bonds real estate and crypto is in others it's not even in alternatives it's in others and so clearly this is meant to be a very small part of an overall portfolio. So, how do you think through that? Where does that fit in?

Yeah, look, I mean, I I you know, uh from my perspective, this still fits in your uh you know, the the growth growth part of the portfolio. It's just an alternative asset in that growth segment, a net new segment. You know, if you're investing in utilities, you have a huge allocation in tech hopefully. Uh and this is an additional growth vector uh that's coming up and it's going to obviously be uh penetrating into mainstream. So, you should be thinking about that.

Now within that the the decision between you you at the first case you have to take a decision that you want exposure to crypto and within crypto you know exposure to productive type of economies like Salana and others who are building new ecosystems on top of it then you have to make a decision that you just want to buy a passive asset and sit on it or you want to also then benefit all the productive economy built on this which is what the DATs kind of exposes

so the growth part of the portfolio perhaps some income that's right okay Jason

yeah I I would agree I think that one of the dangers that we've had in crypto broadly for a long time is trying to fit it into a box. Is it an equity? Is it a commodity? Is it a currency? It is the it is the fusion of finance and technology.

And so it's unique and I think it's an important part of people's portfolios when you think about where the world's going. If the two big tenants of the world today are AI and blockchain, it's an important part of any portfolio. And so you have to think through that and then you have to think through how do you want to how do you want to express that in your portfolio? Do you want to take the time to stake to unstake to reststake to do other things like that or do you want to let someone do that for you for a fraction of the cost but it should definitely be a part of your portfolio always and I think people are waking up to that.

Okay. Uh councelor go please. Yeah, a lot of what I do is talking to our institutional clients like endowments, pension funds, allocators and I think a big sea shift that's happened this year and what we're seeing that debt that's are a part of theme of is the equity markets embrace of digital assets. I think you know you're seeing that the performance of Coinbase and Robin Hood wildly outperforming the S&P 500. You see that in IPOs whether it's circle figure portfolio penta portfolio companies doing extremely well after IPO or the emergence of debts and the strong amount of demand.

I think the biggest catalyst that is not talked enough about was the inclusion of Coinbase into the S&P 500. Every allocator I talked to has has a benchmark and S&P 500 is one of them. Before this year, you could choose to ignore crypto because it wasn't in it. But all of a sudden, beginning in May, every single allocator every day when they wake up is choosing to be underweight, overweight, or equal weight crypto. And they're choosing to be overweight.

Um, okay. Well, there's, you know, there's this new sort of Larry Frink has talked about replacing the 6040 with the 60 2020 where 20 is alternatives and do you see crypto forming? Will will crypto be a part of onboarding those alternative assets? Will DATs play a role in that? In other words, these are getting tokenized.

All these this alternative assets are getting tokenized actually on Salana which is part of why uh perhaps many of you are you know bullish on just the network being able to support finance because it's becoming a place for price discovery of alternative assets. So if dads were to choose to diversify outside of soul the asset into other ecosystem plays what would that look like and you perhaps you're likely to have different strategies. So the more specific you can get the better. So maybe start with you Cosmo.

Yeah, I think the most important thing to realize that debts are a what makes them special is their ability to tap the capital markets in a meaningful way. Um and there are different market caps at which you unlock you know what bankers will call the Chinese menu of options that are available to you. And so most debts like you really have to reach three four $5 billion market cap before you actually get to hit the regular way convertible debt market be able to sell preferred in large enough chunks. And if you think about a three, four, five billion dollar debt, the reality is you probably need your token FTV to be at least 20 plus. And so there's not going to be that many tokens that reach that micro strategy like flywheel outcome cuz they need to hit that 3, four, 5 billion market cap.

That said, we encourage all of our portfolio companies to think about launching a DAT cuz what better way is there to create a permanent capital vehicle that can advocate for your system?

Wait, would would would you be open to acquiring I'm asking your question, David, that's been on your mind. So for you, would you uh would you at some point consider acquiring uh tokens that uh our friend here on the uh on stage has uh you know created the flywheel for the the the you know the defi markets that represents drift.

Yeah, I'd say never say never. You know at HST the goal is to maximize shareholder value. Uh and we believe right now today that means a being the strongest advocates we can be for Salana. Salana is something like drift is something that we are incredibly uh excited about. But Salana is still something that's hasn't even talked about enough to trapfy investors.

So we got to start there. We got to talk about why Salana is such an incredible investment for all the reasons these gentlemen have said. And then you know when it makes sense it might make sense to diversify.

I think that's where the ecosystem piece comes into play. Like even for Ford uh that was tokenized with Superstate and then eventually listed on Drift and uses collateral. It's the first of its kind never done before and I think it's really the convergence of you know tradi I think in the future the standard is pretty clear token like drift kamino jetto has outperform the beta of salana at at the very core I mean ultimately all these allocators getting assessed on the ability to track soul and it has to outperform that if it doesn't do that if drift is not able to do that then we shouldn't be part of it but if we can show that our free cash flows which I think this year is on track for 50 million is able to do that then we have a place at the Otherwise, we are defaulted.

Yeah, that's incredible. And that's partially, you know, that's uh to your credit, you folks have built an exceptional product. It's just that the regul you need a few strokes of a pen to be able to pass on the fruits of the enterprise to the token holders and hopefully with the regulatory progress we're seeing in the US that start sort of starts to become the norm. Um, and you know, there's financial engineering buyback and burn, but there's probably more direct ways to pass it on. If they did, I guess the opportunity opens up for DATs to do that.

Jason, I'm coming to you. uh how specific can you get on your strategy and how it's different from the other two on this uh panel?

The so I can get some some specificity and some I have to be a little more opaque but I think that

you train a little bit of a political answer for you there. I I think when you think through how you're going to to acquire more soul per share, right? There are certain things that you can do today which you know are are fairly transparent to the market with regards to whether it's staking, block building, transaction propagation, things of that nature. And then I think that you move farther downstream where you're doing more things that are onchain that are in in true DeFi native. And you know there's a possibility to to the the question where you acquire some of those ecosystem companies because the goal is more in this case more soul per share like what better way to do that than to find those you know people doing interesting exciting things in the ecosystem and either investing in them or acquiring them and folding them into your broader strategy.

So when we think through forward industries, we're looking through the entire the entire Chinese menu to to to use Cosmos comments that to to find a way to actually win the game, right? And it doesn't mean that there's going to be one winner. There can be many winners who appeal to investors, right, for a specific outcome. But I think that you have to be willing to to do pretty much anything to, you know, increase that shareholder value.

Awesome. Well, you have $50 million in free cash flow right across uh and waiting. Sorry, welcome to you. Uh any anything you can say about how you're what strategies you're deploying that's different from everybody else on this panel? Yeah, again I it can be can be too specific again you know there's the you know the management team and they're going to be you know deciding bunch of uh kind of key core things but you know for for the success of you know these vehicles again permanent capital vehicle uh is kind of the best way to think about them you know what matters is scale

y

uh you know skill and then execution uh if you again look the one that jump has been kind of stakeholder you know this is the largest salana uh treasure vehicle out there so scale matters uh as as cosmos said to be able to go access other pools of cheaper cost of capital to play that cost of capital arbitrage. So we are on that game and we're going to continue to keep scaling it up. this is the probably the best team in terms of both knowing the R&D access to red fire markets knowing the the multiple stakeholders and uh projects building on top of it and then and then we got to execute uh we're building a strong team and within those strategies I think we're going to look at everything uh and the team is going to look at everything that's that's available you know again uh leverage cost of capital different financial instruments but obviously a big focus in the long term is going to be bringing the value of the productive economy back to the shareholders

got it If uh let's do the bare case real quick. If you found out if you woke up like I don't know a year from now and found out that 90% of the debts on public markets have gone to zero. Well, I guess like they've been forced to sell the assets and redeem at par. Is that roughly what blowing up looks like? Or perhaps they just blew up quite literally.

Um why would that be? uh and what should in how can investors apply an adversarial lens while thinking about these things while having an optimistic view about Salana and its ecosystem and its growth? Well, look, I you know, when when when we first started making these investments, I expect there to be three, four, five, six, you know, Bitcoin debts. But when that did happen, it became clear to me that the end of the end of the story will be there might be two, maybe three scale debts for each of the large cap assets. And the others probably won't earn their keep and they'll trade at NAV or discount.

And that's an excellent opportunity for consolidation. I think anyone who came into this thinking that every single dad will succeed just doesn't know how like didn't didn't remember this is how startups work which is that the vast majority aren't supposed to succeed. The vast majority are supposed to fail and that's natural. That's healthy. Uh but the strong ones will survive and consolidate and that'll be great for Salana and for and for investors.

Yeah. I I think that you're you're looking at a couple different outcomes, right? one is everyone tries to buy back their stock by selling the the base asset and try to converge you know the discount or you're going to look at a you know history doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes situation where we look at the 80s and the corporate raiders the KKRs and so on who will come in and if their cost of capital is cheaper than the discount they'll acquire these and either break them up which also means that the larger DATs who are doing well and who are trading closer to NAV will also be part of that you know apex predator where they're they're accumulating them and so there is this financial gravity that will happen and that consolidation will happen and it is it is healthy it is something that's supposed to happen in in all in all you know financial ecosystems okay um this brings me to something that I've been thinking about which is I started as like a you know I was kind of ambivalent about dads like oh this is like late stage financialization stuff but as I thought about it more it's you know growth has outperformed value over the last 15 to 20 years right you've if you invest in growth stocks all the disciplined businesses that are like utilities banks these are companies print cash flow but haven't been rewarded by public markets the companies that have been rewarded are ones with a massive uh growth story and I wonder if there is a world where value makes a comeback because every value company is a dat in the making because they if they manage their treasury better they could potentially produce this sort of uh premium to NAV because they have the lowest cost of capital. They're producing cash flow. And what options do they have today?

They can do dividends, but dividends are tax inefficient, tax at the corporate structure and at the individual level. They could do I guess buy bonds. Bonds, they're losing money. Um or they could uh I guess reinvest or buy back their own shares, which is kind of like frowned upon and you're reducing the float. So I'm curious to So I've actually ended up in in a world where I believe every company is a DAT which makes me sound loony but tell me I'm not hopefully

No, you're actually missing one interesting angle. You know the crypton natives in us. Why not tokenize it? Galaxy we just tokenized our equity on Salana. Now you tokenize it and instead of a dividend, why isn't an airdrop?

Why can't you start to do things that actually make crypto start to overcome the trady ecosystem? We all know the blockchain is better. We all know that crypto is better. This is financial evolution. There will be things that allow this to happen.

So when we tokenize forward, and I don't know when or how we're going to work with regulators to make sure that it gets done correctly, but when that happens, why wouldn't you return value to your to your shareholders or token holders in that case through some other means? And so I think that you start to see the real goal of of a DAT from our perspective is not is not to just look like Tradfi, but actually make Tradfi start to look a lot like crypto.

Okay. You know, I also say I think that so just one moment that's really that's really cool because what uh one of the things that Airbnb and Uber tried to do is try to get their drivers and hosts uh equity while they were going public, but the SEC rules didn't allow them to do so. But if it was a token, you know, the marginal addition to a cap table is cost zero. it's in on a coin table. So you can just airdrop these to millions of people regardless of where they live in the world.

And so that's that's an interesting uh thing I want to come back to before. Sorry, we heard something.

Yeah, I was going to say like I mean the one fundamental difference in in in the analogy made value versus growth is that the value stocks go and basically focus on cash flow. Yeah. uh versus the growth uh you know ve the the capital vehicles here are going to be somewhat different because the the preservation here is the treasury management is around the underlying asset which inherently is a growth asset.

So you you kind of are doing both where you're doing a good treasury management to make it a a value stock but you have growth inherently embedded into it versus cash is not growth versus soul is fundamentally. So it's it's a unique offering where this is the opportunity for you know uh these companies to provide a very good value wrapper on under underlying kind of growth asset.

Yeah. And I mean look I'm not saying that a utilities company takes all its cash on the balance sheet and turns it into a crypto asset but they could do with a part of it like get off zero right and maybe that part of it when they do that and announce it to public markets public markets may reward them with a premium they didn't expect. And that valuation premium is something that they've been fighting for in public markets for 15 years losing to growth investors and uh you know the the outcomes of the Zerp era you know for I've lived my entire career in the Zer era and so I think there's like a new opportunity set for value investors that perhaps uh you know they may leverage the the the insights you've had on public markets and I was curious um um you know whether any of you are thinking about making treasury management as a service to companies that may uh seek to do so. Is this on the road map? Is this uh for the next cycle?

Well, it's one it's something that we do with Galaxy for sure. We advise a lot of the DATs and it's always a difficult thing because we have to walk many lines, right? We I have I jokingly say I have to be everyone's friend, but that's what you know that's that's the job that you you have to do. And so I think as you start to bring that expertise which was one of the things that gave us the confidence to go and participate and sponsor you know the forward debt is we saw what worked we saw what didn't work and we we continually see you know best efforts and I think you can do that it starts with crypto because we're the most innovative but like I said earlier it it's going to extend to many other things and there's certainly an opportunity to help people do that.

Okay. Um, we're nearing the end of this, so this is going to be my last question. Let me take a second. 10 years from now, Salana has won in whatever way you describe it cuz you're somewhat tethered to the success of Salana the network. Um, can you describe in 10 years from now a scene what that looks like?

I can tell you mine to motivate it. So, give you time to do this. You know, maybe you walk into a coffee shop. you like really like the coffee shop today. You might leave a tip to be a good patron to the coffee shop.

In 5 years from now, there's going to be a QR code on the wall. You're going to scan it. You're going to buy a few shares of the coffee shop. There's just going to be tokens because every company will be able to issue uh their equity trivially because regulations allow them to do so. And you get stream dividends on Salana every uh every quarter.

And you own a bunch of local businesses, right? We had 50% fewer public companies today than 30 years ago. So in the future we're going to have 10,000 apps. That's my vision. So uh we're going to start with you.

We have about uh say a minute for all of us to cover this.

Yeah. Look, I mean you you kind of stole uh you know part of my vision. Uh but I think on top of that I think is also a completely democratized access for all kind of financial products that are right now pretty much captured for the upper echelons. So a complete democratization of that access and then also instant and cheap uh access uh for the capital for the broadbase. I think Salana is a perfect asset to deliver that.

Awesome. Just I I think the the biggest thing is you're not going to know in 10 years that that Salana has won because it's going to be ubiquitous in the sense that no matter what you do, you're not going to go into that coffee shop and say, "I'm going to buy it with soul or I'm going to you're going to buy it with your money." And that's really what the goal ultimately of of the blockchain broadly is. That's how in 10 years you're going to you're going to know soul one. You're going to know that crypto broadly won.

Awesome. Yeah. People often ask me for my bold prediction and I think 5 years from now every single financial application on your phone will run on blockchain rails but just like Jason said you won't know it and that's great right and so at HST Salana company we're really focused on being that third leg of the stool with the Salana Foundation and the Salana Labs to really accelerate the growth of Salana's ecosystem so that we can realize that eventuality.

It's democratization and distribution honestly without you knowing. I feel like you'll interact with all these things in a way that's I think global and without boundaries and you won't know you could access this from Africa. You could use anything and it will just work and it's going to be seamless and just like interconnected at a fundamental level and I feel like that's like that global from day one which right now we have a lot of regulatory barriers that block each country from another country. So I think that's the slab case for me as a builder as well.

Amazing gentlemen. Thank you very much. Thank you very much to this one kind audience that stayed back.