PANEL: Digitize The World: The Future of RWAs

okay guys guys guys guys okay so um so let's uh start with a very like quick introductions 20 seconds to who you are and what you're building hi my name is R hipper I work for chain link Labs I do strategic accounts there uh and before this I worked on a couple cbdc projects and some rwa tokenization with uh large Banks and central banks I'm Jay from centrifuge uh we do real world asset tokenization essentially bringing funds and different private credit opportunities on chain hi I'm Stefan I'm the founder of true inflation and we calculate real world cost of living and how that moves and we provide the true source of inflation hi there everybody my name is is na G metivier I'm the CEO of lender Network and we're doing fully decentralized real world asset tokenization so we're creating synthetic tokens a lot like uh decentralized stable coins but for real world assets okay guys I need I need to ask to raise the volume because otherwise we can't hear you uh or or Raise Your Voice as well so I asked him but I also ask you so now um let's go into into the topic a bit more specifical because we are here to speak about um rwa so a real world asset and the first question that I want to uh make is um about how does chain link uh facilitate the integration uh of offchain data into smart contracts and what role does it it play uh in the development of uh wa yeah good question of course um the term rwa implies that there's something that isn't on the blockchain and lives off of the blockchain so when you look at all these different issuers what they're doing is they're taking something in the real world they're usually putting it into custodian or something similar and then they're issuing practically speaking something like an erc2 or an ERC 712 whatever uh on the blockchain and then that's really nice but that's just kind of a plain token there's not really much you can do with that so what you need is you need for example a price fee to understand what this thing actually is you need to be able to get that data from for example a private chain if it exists onto the public chain or even from like you know traditional banking software like sip fiori or some sip fiori or something um just issuing an asset isn't going to get you somewhere you need to be able to get that data into the asset or into the smart contracts to be able to use it um so when you look at for example a an A or something if they want to introduce an rwa they need to know what it actually is rather than just a little bit of just trust me bro so they need a price feed they need to know it's safe they need to know that it's actually backed by something U because otherwise anybody can just issue a token and say oh this cc20 totally you know is worth whatever I say it is basically um so we kind of help build this ecosystem of data around these assets themselves and we leave all the frankly really hard parts of the tokenization all the legal discussions uh we leave that with the issuers who are absolute experts at that kind of stuff so now let's switch a bit to AWA appli to defi specifically so with centrifuge uh that is centrifuge is focused on bringing RWS into defi so uh what's the process of tokenizing rwa and allow this yeah so once a fund launches through centrifuge the process for tokenization is bringing everything on chain right so every single pool that launches we'll have a unique asset class with a unique asset structure and we essentially help them set up a template so they could bring as much data on chain and so the issuer will then mint an nft the reason we use an nft is because it's Unique in nature so for instance if it's uh T bills that's a specific qip that the fund is purchasing and the fund will then be able to have a unique nft to each qip and that's the idea behind it same for a loan if it's a Fix and Flip that loan is also unique and so the nft is unique uh speaking about pricing how you were saying I think it's actually a really good point and it's really the future which is if you have a fund you need a professional fund administrator or trustee different parties in place that are going to verify the asset right verify the asset the value the change in value ensuring that the nav is up to date and that the token price is constantly moving in the right direction so I really do like what you guys are doing I think it's really changing the game providing more opportunity competing with really big players in the traditional Finance world but you guys are you know web 3 native and I think there's a lot of opportunity um and especially a lot of opportunity for our pools do you want to add something or no yeah let's add let's add I can I can make a question so uh since you have the mic uh true flation is all about uh real economic data so how do you think real economic data can help the RW and the in particular the valuation and stability of awas so we look you know I mean one of the things that we're seeing with triflation we span trafi and defi right so we have the people in defi where we go and work with to build out you know synthetic assets trading of inflation Etc trafi all they care about is how can they help better forecast what the government is going to tell them so we're sort of between both angles how do we grow and blend and find a middle ground where we can grow and scale that today 18 to 29 year olds biggest concern around the world is cost of living so inflation matters to everybody in the UK you've lost 40% of your purchasing power in the last three years 3 years 40% that's huge so what do we need to do how do we in incentivize and attract new development products in this market how do we bring new liquidity into this Market Insurance products to Ure myself against inflation um flat coins that allow the development and allow me to save money in a currency but if I can't Market those if I can't bring them to Consumers and by the way there are 1.7 billion people on this planet that are using US dollar as a denom Ator because ultimately 99% of the World's Trade is done in US Dollars how do we give them the right to participate in this ecosystem and get attract more services and allow them to store value in a flat coin or other as types of insurance inflation protected assets I don't know if that answers the question yeah do you want guys do you have any uh opinion about it about this question I already know Stefan so I think the work he's doing is great I think it really needs to be done like he said many currencies around the world are devaluing pretty rapidly and so I think people are looking for Alternatives but I think what you're doing what what what Nate's doing at lender and what you know you're helping yeah exactly unlock potential and access to the 1.7 billion people that today cannot trade Commodities you're looking to bring onto the blockchain and enable synthetic trading of assets that are only available to 15 Banks yeah 15 Banks trade and make a hundred billion dollar in profit for trading gold silver copper you know nickel and now I can unlock that on the blockchain and I can make maybe not a hundred billion dollars in profit but I can make 10 million in profit by trading these assets as a synthetic on lender exactly okay so can you can you explain a bit more about lender and how do you think um tokenizing any any asset is helping this in like attracting and on boarding and like helping the ecosystem in general for sure yeah so expanding on what he was saying essentially we work really closely with tration and we take the data that they provide on chain in the P of an Oracle and we tokenize that uh very similar to a decentralized stable coin so just like he was saying essentially what we're aiming to do is give everybody in the world access to every single asset class uh unfettered doesn't matter where you are in the world you'd be able to trade it 247 transfer it to anybody 247 and that's really what lender is doing and it it's to solve this exact problem right we want people to have all of these asset classes and be able to use them in a way that is just as liquid as cash it doesn't need to replace cash uh but to be able to trade it transfer back and forth just like you would with any token uh but you can do that with gold or us real estate or um let's say an electric vehicle index or Commodities or anything else and so that's really what lender network is doing we're tokenizing all these Assets in a a globally accessible way is really uh it's really what we're doing and what what do you guys think about uh the like the barriers to entry so what do you think are the main hardles right now to SC really scale with the word asset uh do you think is like trust ux um you can let me ask you right we were talking earlier about your you got into Bitcoin and crypto because you felt that there was an opport no okay sorry crypto all right you got into crypto because it had a disruptive representative it represented disruption change opportunity inclusion what would it take and what do you think is needed so that we can be more successful in this industry to make you excited again so I um yeah I'm bored guys no I'm doing marketing so I already take care about uh this kind of uh topics no and I think that I'm personally bit bored because uh really we are not being this this disruptive anymore as we were in 2018 when I joined I I'm I am focused on defi so uh back then defi was really like the purpose was bringing a new Financial system to everyone now is making rich people richer with the money that we have already in the in the in the space so we are not scaling anymore if you look at the charts we had the super like scaling at the beginning and then flat you know then Beer Market and then a bit and then flat it means that we are not building something new anymore we are not throwing in liquidity we are not attracting new people why why why because maybe there are really different mistakes that I think like uh it could be on both boing it could be that we are not enough um attractive in terms of um like Simplicity I don't know we probably we made some mistakes in explaining um normal people I say normal people when I'm talking about my husband who is not into crypto you know he just buy and it doesn't why are what do you think are the problems that we face like talking to your friends because we are biased we are biased that's very fair yeah I think that this group and and probably everybody here has a pretty strong bias in that they understand crypto and know how to get over the pretty serious barriers to entry um but I really agree I think that there was a period of time where there was explosive growth even just recently uh but things have stagnated in some way where right now we're mostly redistributing the same wealth that is in crypto rather than bringing New Wealth into this space and so I'm sure everybody on this panel knows but there's a lot of uh predictions from traditional Finance entities saying that the rwa tokenization Market's going to reach $16 trillion by 2030 whereas all of crypto right now is around 2 trillion and so I really look at that as the market that is going to bring a lot of users on chain to get access to those um but hopefully not just traditional Finance entities like Banks but actual users and I think that outside of Regulation the big barrier for users is just the complexity major major complexity yeah it needs to be simplified and so I think that that was a key piece of innovation that like Unis swap brought to the table their swaps are so simple um but now a lot of the newer systems are very complex and just getting into crypto as a whole is so complex and it doesn't mean that we need to build in a lower complexity we need to uh to communicate way more like sorry way less the complexity we need to hide the complexity people don't give a that we are a good developers you know like my mom she doesn't she doesn't care that's not what she's looking for she just want to type two letters on the keyboard and get transaction have everything done maybe not even that just click a button I I I do think it's different measures of success though because if you look at for example something like arbitrum versus uh cell for example so arbitrum has a huge amount of tvl like I don't know what how many billions um probably arbitrum has less actual users than cell but cell has only1 million in TBL but they have a huge amount of users in for example Africa and developing countries that are active using it to earn even like a small yield and for example like a couple dollars that they have but when we look around in defi what do we look for we look for TPL we go for like the big protocols the big amounts of money where we actually you know can make money ourselves as well quite frankly uh and you see this in the real world as well or for example you have these gigantic Banks like I remember one cbdc project I won't name the central bank but uh we were talking about doing crossboard transactions and I said you know you guys have like this ancient rtgs system where you do like daily transac actions once a day uh how do you guys think about developing new crossb uh payment systems and they said well actually I think the crossb payment system works really well if you want to transfer from here to Germany it's really fast it's really nice yeah but what about for example Vietnam yeah but nobody's really transferring to Vietnam why do we really care about that kind of stuff and it's especially like stable coins are actually a much much better payment rail that can be used especially for those kinds of underserved Nations and then in terms of tvl it might not look that big but in terms of actual value to people it's going to look quite large and I think it already looks quite large I have family in Columbia I have family in Thailand I sent money to them using stable coins mostly dollar nominated stable coins because well that's where we are in the world um but still it's actually being used it just doesn't look like you know I'm not transferring massive size of hundreds of millions of dollars yet maybe one day but not yet no yeah I think that's a really great point I'll give you one of the mic here in just a second but okay yeah I think that is a really excellent point it depends on what you're optimizing for right are you optimizing for TBL or number of transactions or number of holders or number of users right and um that also touches on the point of what are you monetizing are you monetizing tbll or you n monetizing transfers and so you're right TBL is not the best metric or may not always be the appropriate metric to to measure the success of a protocol and um yeah just just saying you you rais a very good point for sure so on the example cell's very much focused on mobile right so they went mobile first they were trying to get the mobile user and they were very much into International markets so markets where Africa I think they were created a big penetration um remittance you know if you go back sorry Bitcoin again was peer-to-peer electronic cash right so it was peer-to-peer so it was all about remittance and increasing the velocity of money what could we do I mean ultimately I think that's what's really going to drive change right I need to make it so simple that the money flows and it turn turns around really fast everybody's a mobile phone and that's the computer we all walk around with today and so how can we accelerate that and how do we bring rwas as a tradable ownership product to facilitate trade I want to trade in this and trade in that it's an exchange of goods and services and how do we do that and how can I lend against my house how can I get that onchain and borrow against that and immediately transfer it to you bang bang bang instantaneously at bitcoin.com I we built a app for merchants that every single staff on their mobile phone could have that app but it would always go to the merchant wallet so I would pay and the tip would stay in your wallet address as the server or at a restaurant but the main price would go to the the the restaurant for example and it would it be a dedicated wallet that would then be ideally hopefully maybe multisig but but things like that right so how do we enable faster velocity of money yeah and I think we can quickly bring it back to rw's here because if we're if we're real I hope that nobody here had hundreds of thousands of dollars in actual dollars over the last couple years uh so if you look at how actual people and also big companies and basically everybody actually treats their money you have a bit of actual cash like in stable coins and then you have a savings account and it looks like cash but it isn't because actually that's backed by RW loans to people loans to mortgages loans for cars whatever banks are loaning out your money and that's backing your savings then you have your house then you have stocks then you have all these other assets so in practice nobody really keeps a huge amount of money in stable coins we actually back that with rwas and if we want to do that safely we have to tokenize all these things we have to tokenize small business loans we have to tokenize large business loans treasuries and everything yeah I absolutely agree uh we're all basically saying the same thing it needs to be simple easy to access interoperability needs to actually happen and we need to be able to make it tradable I think the biggest hurdle I say is the number of clicks it takes to do a transaction uh at the end of the day if you go to Robin Hood you could do a lot in one click that's what we need one click is the goal and interoperability uh account abstraction all of these key words that we hear are going to bring people in but when I have to tell my grandmother that she has to have a seed phrase hidden on a piece of paper hidden in a vault she she doesn't want to bother it's too much work and that's the reality so simplification and diversification while also we need need to talk about regulations because you really can't you can't access rwas if you're not the right type of investor I'm an American I do not have enough money to participate in centrifuge that's the reality I want to I want to put money towards fixing FP I want even less money than you so this is the reality of the field where we're not all equal we don't all have the ability to access these assets even though we want to I want to have fun with gold and silver and copper I want to have money in other people's houses and fix and loans and put money into funds and TS I can't do that you know what I can do with one click through a Marcus account I could have a CD like that and get 5% easy I think it's a it's a bit to like our struggle now in in my opinion is to find an equilibrium uh between uh like simplification accessibility regulations uh you know compliancy uh etc etc which is not easy guys but we will get there um so speaking about regulation uh how do you see the landscape the regulatory landscape uh about rwa uh and how do you see it evolving and impacting right now on the on the ecosystem that's me how do I see it evolving this is very interesting so ultimately I think the the dilemma with Reg ulation is a lack of clarity sorry yeah a lack of clarity right so um it's difficult for a lot of protocols to grow because many people won't work with them because they don't want to touch crypto with a 10-ft pole and the reason why is because they just don't want to get into something that could be a problem later on so the lack of clarity is really damaging the ability for a lot of startups to grow where do I think it's going ultimately I think every day we get more and more clarity and that's ultimately what's solving this but really unfortunately people are finding a lot of ways around it um just to to work in the gray area to still get things done and still move forward I mean even companies like Unis swap are now receiving Wells notices and things of that nature and ultimately they produce a huge amount of growth within within Dy finding ways around a lot of these problems so I would love compliance to catch up is the way that I feel about it overall um as far as how it gets there you know I think something that's maybe not touched upon enough at least for people in the United States is our ability to push our Regulators to make change as individuals and so I'm very politically active and I think that we could do more simply to speak about it with regulators and speak about it being an important Point uh because ultimately our votes are what matter at least in the US yeah yeah I think it's actually really interesting um the regulations as they stand specifically for rwas are a lot clearer than the other asset classes right like we are just doing what's traditionally already available so the rules are quite clear they just don't talk about tokenization and I think the normalization of tokenization within that space is just next it's what's going to happen right like after the paper crisis of whatever year it was in the stock market they went digital next is on chain I think it's just natural but the regulations just need to say we're okay with you tokenizing these assets so so how how do you see in rwa competing against the incumbents if you're playing according to the incumbent rules and their game there was a c surve that came out from mckinsley recently that said I forget the exact number but it was close to 60% of firms that are already securitizing real world assets what we consider real world assets are planning to tokenize within the next three years it's happening they want all of the perks that we've been talking about for years they want it and we're we all of us are ready to give it to them touching on that same question how do we compete with these these other companies I think that like he said I think a lot of the big players are already moving into this space and there is a lot of regulatory Clarity um at the moment for real world assets but I think the downside is that the regulation was written for older Financial systems and so they don't let people take advantage of some of the benefits of a blockchain technology right that interrup ability like you were saying like a good example of stable coins right so many things are built on top of stable coins and that's really not possible if you are requiring that everybody is an accredited investor in order to use any of these Financial systems and so I think that how do we compete with them I think we need regulation to catch up so that we are able to have not just the big firms play a role but really anybody and and I think that that is also um a key benefit that we have that allows us to compete against them is that you don't need to have $2 million in the bank in order to access this asset class anybody can access it and um and you can send it to anybody in the world right you can hold it anywh you want and so those are my thoughts on that yeah thank you guys so uh um next question is a bit broader and um is about how do you see the future or of AWA in let's say five years um how do you see like the yeah like how how big do you do you see do you see we can arrive and how many users how many how much money will be involved in your opinion if our dads will be there in five years five years is is not a long time in my opinion five years is not a long time but it's long enough for me to start getting white hairs in crypto uh um I think we're if we just pull forward the trends that we're right now seeing which is this massive amount of tokenization and we're also seeing the share of public chains increase as opposed to private chains so a lot of these Banks might have a private chain and they might keep launching a couple and do something like a digital twin for example where you have the banking system then they first issue on their private chain and then they go to public chains but it's pretty clear when freaking Larry thinkink says on National Television that you know public chains are the future we should never do private chains we're going to public chains so we're going to see this enormous search of all types of RW move into this public space I think it's going to happen with the easier to tokenize assets first so stuff like us treasuries uh the more liquid assets the more clearly definable assets and frankly I think we're going to see this whole defi ecosystem arise on top of them like for example with with centrifuge where you're going to have for example these individual nfts but I don't want to hold an nft that pays me out a coupon once per three months I want to hold for example just a savings account so you're going to see this layer built on top and frankly we're probably going to start measuring it in in the trillions on chain like right now the only trillion dollar asset we have in crypto is basically Bitcoin um we're going to see trillion doll asset classes in crypto is what I expect I agree yeah I'll touch on this next um what do I see it going in five years I think that if we are capable to get the average person to have access to any rwa I think that we'll eventually replace our our high yield savings accounts with real world assets or at least maybe tokens that represent a basket of assets where you would cut out that middleman the bank who's profiting off of your saving accounts money right because they're going on and they're buying assets and they're giving you a little bit of the returns but they're keeping the vast majority of it I think that your average person will be able to do that you'll just you'll have your cash let's say stable coins or cash sitting in a wallet somewhere and then the money that you're not trying to keep liquid you would hold a token that represents real estate or a token that represents electric vehicles or something of that nature and so that's the direction I think things are going I hope that it gets there within 5 years we'll see so I'm going to be a bit more controversial um because we got to spice it up a bit um I think we'll see a GFC another Global financial crisis in the next 5 years systemic banks will break there will be one or two another credit Swiss that will crash and as that crashes crypto is going to become more and more a safe haven and as crypto becomes more and more safe havens destinations like centrifuge where I can then leverage an asset to go and borrow on lender with chain link providing the proof of reserve and then obviously paying a new on tokens I can then go and have an inflationary protected stable coin that I borrowed from lender using a housing you know H my house that was used as collateral to pay my rent and then working with chain link to have a proof of Reserve not in five years in three that is really scary and exciting and scary again um I can't even speculate where we where we will be in 5 years I think you all have valid points I think it it's very likely that we'll just see a lot of competition um I think all of us tokenization platforms will be buying for the same trillion dollars in tokenization coming on chain and I'm very scared of when it crashes but I do think to your crash Point all of these Stables that are coming out are part of this problem right if the banks crash the dollar value the Swiss check. frank value goes down all of that affects the space and investing in t- bills or assets backed by property are are not the safest bet because if the dollar crashes the property values crash and I I don't even want to imagine where I will be living in a situation like that you see I don't believe I think we're in Blue Ocean territory right we in cryptand in blockchain we created out of zero out of nothing from $10,000 a big pizza 10,000 Bitcoin a pizza we've created A3 trillion doll industry why should we stop we should not stop we should not stop and we should not compete against each other we should compete against the big boys those systemic banks that have created the systemic problem that we have today of $35 trillion in debt in the US why do we let them tict take to us how we should be competing against each other we should be collaborating each other to grow the $2.

3 trillion to aund trillion dollar quadrillion dollar Sur calls it industry yeah I think we are in this phase now but maybe in five years we could start to compete also I hope that we can start to compete against each other but right now I think the same we are uh we need to think about like um as an ecosystem rather than we are not right now in the POS position of competing against each other guys yeah we are too small we we need to scale all together and to grab liquidity Al together as an ecosystem I mean we are small but I knew to I remember when I was blown away when you had social post a dow Forum post on maker Dow asking them to tokenize something that was the first time ever that a bank interacted directly with a dow like we are getting somewhere where I didn't never even dreamed we would get to quite frankly uh I remember when when maker first broke it like $1 million uh or 1 million die Mark and then a couple years later we're there right and and I think what you also see in this space is this um it's frankly started fully open everybody everybody was open everything was open and it was also uh retail driven first and all the banks like kind of ignored it it was this weird thing that these nerds were doing in a corner and then suddenly we started creating money and you suddenly had you know a billion dollar in this D ecosystem and a billion dollars in that defi ecosystem and suddenly they started to get interested but they couldn't play because of Regulation and they didn't really know how to play so it's it's taken a couple different years where you went from we're going to completely ignore blockchain to we're going to issue a private chain so we're going to issue a private chain between central banks and Fork Unis Swap and use that for foreign exchange currencies which actually happened between Dubai and and Thailand into this place where now you have gigantic Banks tokenizing hundreds of millions of dollars on the ethereum blockchain the ECB issuing a bond here um they are going to come in play here and yes they are large yes they are systemic and you know there's a lot to say about the banks but they're coming and we need to welcome them in our way and there is this idea that if you adopt crypto technology you adopt crypto values and I do firmly believe that and as long as we stick to our values and we say you're very welcome to come and take the benefits but we do things this way and we do things the right way I think everybody can have all the benefits frankly and maybe they'll learn a little bit from us as well yeah absolutely okay guys I think we are we need to wrap up a bit uh so final thoughts uh I want to ask you what's the mo most exciting thing you're working on uh with your project and an advice to a potential Joiner of uh uh rwa space like a project thinking about building on on this so ad exciting thing and advice you can start interesting okay so thing that I'm most excited about that we're currently building is probably voice louder louder yeah yeah I would say so touching on the point of like how do we compete with the larger systems that are well established I think that with crypto you're able to do much more than just hold a token right and that's essentially what you do with a bank or other types of um Financial systems you just hold something maybe take out a loan against it I think we can do much more than that and so something that we're building with lender is the ability to have liquid stake real world asset tokens so let's say just like we were saying you might replace a bank account with one of these assets um instead of just holding it in your bank account you'd be able to stake it in our platform and receive a liquid stake token that represents it and then go do various things in depi with that you can lend it out you can create LP tokens things of that nature and through that I think we unlock the ability to do things that are not currently possible within your traditional Financial systems so that's what excites me the most and was the second question what would my advice be second question is advice to a guy that want to like um build something related to rwa sure yeah my main piece of advice is just start building immediately and my reason for that is you're probably going to mess it up the first one or two attempts are going to go pretty badly but you need to get those reps out of the way in order to find something that is successful and be able to innovate and pivot and so just start as soon as possible and move really quickly um test your ideas as quickly as possible and then be willing to let them go thanks um get excited come on step you're I I I don't need to be told what I get excited about I'm so excited about this industry I love it and I hopefully that passion comes across I think there's no better time to be in crypto and blockchain than today we have hit a maybe a stumbling block right where we're we're a bit stagnant at the moment but we are exploring and we are building and I meet passionate Builders everywhere I go that are trying to tokenize rwa and what I'm really excited about how do we disclose and expose the rwas that are being created and to me the best form of doing that is in the form of an index okay and so I'm creating indexes and those indexes will be Discovery mechanisms for underlying rwa assets this is going to be a one trillion doll industry in the next five years and this is us even more okay great if it's more it's better right we promise under promise overperform and I think the problem at Bitcoin has been overpromise and underperform so let's turn that around let's under promise and overperform now I'm excited thank you just y okay so the question was what are we excited about when what what he got me very excited the question so the question was what's your project uh is building that you are next that you are excited about so we are working on getting centrifuge everywhere and when we say that we mean all the chains if you're an investor you just come with your whatever the stable coin of that pool is and you invest you participate it doesn't matter what chain the issue work and offramp and the funds all get Blended together and that's that interoperability where you can come from arbitrum Cello ethereum base or polka dot native as well like wherever usdc is if you want to participate you can use it and that's that's what I'm really most excited about where you don't really have to be like okay now I need a Bridget over here and then I got a wormhole here because it's a special chain like that none of that you're an investor put your money in the pool however best you can yeah wherever you want exactly and then my advice also Bitcoin it's a chain Bitcoin we'll see what they do with the ordinals and all that and then my advice to anyone trying to get into the space stick with it don't let people talk down to you about it if they do just ignore um I remember going to conferences and telling people about centrifuge and they would laugh at me when I told them they could get 10% yield on real correlated assets people laughed they could get a th% on a Pepe token go have fun with your speculative token if you're ready if you really have a good idea stick with it and you'll make it yeah besides mimic coin guys that's there is a huge amount of stuff happening to be excited about now I need to be a little mindful of what I say so I'm just going to stick with what I was really excited about last week is our collaboration with Fidelity and Signum Bank where we brought net asset values on chain so in trafy you have somebody who holds the asset somebody who manages the funds and then you have a calculation agent that actually determines this is what the thing is worth it's a very weird idea in defi because we kind of mix everything together for some reasons some good some bad um but we're helping to bring actual net asset values on chain and that's like the start because now if you tokenize an asset that is backed by this thing you actually know what it's worth in in a way that is regulatorily compliant and that makes it much much easier for these very large institutions like dip their toes into this industry also on the public chain rather than just the private chains and I think we need to pull them into the l2s into the defi ecosystem into the places where other people can also interact with them and this is the kind of stuff that it takes quite frankly um and in terms of advice I think uh back in 2017 when I was still young um I had a startup and that bombed and then I went into let's call it trafi Consulting type stuff and I just kept kicking people's shins about blockchain what are we doing with this what are they doing with this why is the client not working with this and I just kept being annoying long enough until they put me in front of like very large institutions to talk to them about blockchain and at some point when basically teruna started going up and everybody was earning 20% they started getting interested as long as you just keep being persistently annoying somebody will start listening for good or bad reasons be annoying okay saying what you're saying and I think this is super underappreciated what chain link has done with nabs on the blockchain so if you're a young you know emerging upcoming student or you know looking for a new career do not go into accounting because they have just killed 50 million accounting jobs because they have taken nav which needed to go through Anderson coer anybody remember Anderson Cooper Enron everybody heard of Enron if you haven't go read about it Anderson Cooper with the consulting firm and they messed up to the extent of billions and trillions and this is now all done by chain link as a proof of Reserve automated to valify and verify the net asset value of underlying assets and that is actually super underappreciated and disruptive to a very boring industry but it's really disruptive and I don't think people have really appreciated that good thank you guys thank you and uh let's grab some Lums