Web3 Marketing: Strategies for B2B and B2C in the Decentralized Era

we're going to start today with the marketing panel on strategies and we have here today with us di alexanda uh James Ray Victor Tamer and Max uh Max and Victor Tamer let's give them a big round of applause okay we that that was close thank you Andrea thank you Andrea and a big round of appla for Andrea please okay is this one okay pass that over to Victor hey everybody thank you so much for being here we know that finding stage three could be a bit of an adventure especially in the morning said me running down the Cobble Street cobblestone streets in my new shoes but we are so happy that you're here we have a wonderful panel for you today it is focused on marketing and one thing to keep in mind is that we will have a bit of time for questions in the end so whatever you would like to know these guys are real experts in the market marketing field of web 3 with extensive experience in web 2 as well so don't be shy just think of what you want to ask and ask away so before we dive in let's give a moment each to our speakers to tell you who they are and what they do Jay let's start with you hey there guys nice to see everybody this morning I hope everyone's had a nice relaxing evening before the start of this three-day and really really happy to be here so quick background of myself I'm Jay I set up a marketing agency about about three two and a half years ago uh I focus on helping projects get exposure through social media get traction on their on their Twitter their ex social media platforms like telegram Discord and just leveraging you know the marketing uh channels to grow and bolster their communities um so in my last couple years been working with projects doing token launches nft launches um and really just helping Brands pivot into the web 3 space and so yeah happy to pass on to Max now hi everyone box here yes so thank you for having me by the way it was a little bit of a last minute one but I'm happy to be here um same as Jay I'm running a marketing agency called alltime high my background comes from Market making uh when I join let's say with my business partner he was more focused on marketing so uh yeah we decided to actually combine forces um I think web free marketing is literally very similar to web to Marketing in general but we we do have uh different channels and avenues that we use and uh yeah I think today we'll explore the marketing Avenue that we focus more excellent thank you Diana happy to be here at Naples cth and happy to be with you on the panel um so I'm Victor Tamer I write for being crypto being crypto is uh one of the top three leading uh web 3 media in the world and I also do Partnerships management for them and I do pr for pency fantastic thank you so much as I said Guys these are real experts here on the panel so let's dive with our first question which is probably my favorite question because in our Essence we all come from the world of web to and it's arguable that there would be no web three if there wasn't web two with all of its drawbacks so let me ask you what are some core differences between marketing and web two and web 3 who would like to start sure yeah I think there's something worth mentioning is that marketing really simply put is just Communications communicating your brand to your audience and you know growing your audience in a very obviously which we like to use organic campaigns the problem that you have within the web three space is if you're working with financial products you can't you know actively advertise and and promote those products in the same way that you can in the web TW space an example of that is we've done a little bit of work with different layer one blockchains where you have a financial instrument that's not regulated yet so you cannot just be you know shouting and screaming putting ads out look come byy a product because in the end of the day you're probably going to get uh you know look into so the the core differences I think are more about on the community side you're growing in a community in such a way that you're not sort of selling I think we all we've all heard this before but the best way to sell is to not sell at all so I think when you use those techniques which I'm sure Max uh and Victor will jump into now you can find yourself growing your community in such a way that really differentiates between the web two classic marketing techniques that you would use I jump this yeah I amazing thank you um yeah I do agree with uh youj um in terms of promoting a brand essentially is the same I think web free web to they do work the same when you promote a brand essentially you just promote the culture of the brand and the ethics of the brand so yeah yeah yeah oh yeah no no it's fine I I'll do it and uh yeah building the community essentially what matters right um all the all these brands in web free uh they do try they do try and to build their Community which essentially are the first users the first one trying the product the first one's essentially promoting you across the channels social medias whatever speak about you so that's first thing and then secondly I think the most important part is obviously knowing how to communicate and high quality visuals um obviously videos 3D videos animation the communication itself has to be very U attractive and fun at the same time so that's definitely something that I've seen that this ban is actually working quite well uh another thing I would like to add is essentially the channels right um we do focus a lot of NEX and we think like X is a web free Channel but I'm actually seeing a lot of Brands coming on Tik Tok Instagram LinkedIn you name it uh they don't really speak about the token obviously that's something you cannot do and you might get banned or whatever but I've seen many crypto projects actually running ads on traditional web to uh channels and uh yeah they are not promoting the token they are just promoting the brand like uh they just speaking about themselves they obviously try to on board new or on board new people to whatever they are selling or whatever they are building so I think there is not much difference in terms of how you have to communicate but obviously the community is what matters uh it's you it's a user base are the ones buying your product the one using your product so definitely focus on community yeah uh I would agree so I think content is what different what what's the difference between Web Two marketing web 3 can you hear me yeah okay um well the way it works right now with web 2 is you collect data about people you sell the data to Advertiser that throw advertising to their target market um with web marketing if you own your data then you need to consent to whatever you can see or whatever you join so I agree it's more about community so brands are going to need to build a community um and it's going to be more engaging with customer rather than just shoving images into their face um so content what is the difference to me that's a great answer and I love how you said that you can be shoving content into people's faces because people in web 3 are more selective they're more Savvy we've all been through the web to buy my offer for 9.97 or you know other tactics that are so jaded however one thing that is to be said and Max touched on this is that a lot of the channels that we U ized in web 2 marketing are also applicable for web 3 marketing so let me get your perspective on this as a web 3 marketer which channels are you most using and where are you seeing the most success yeah I think coming into that there's there's some really key key players in in the in the social media landscape right now of course Twitter um now called X is I would call the Town Square of all things crypto um just jumping in quickly to what you said there about the web two sites the web 3 I I think there's a a great way to relate those and it's actually going to Wed three events like this uh and other ethereum events around around Europe compared to events like web Summit and if you go to those events everyone's like you know they're trying to sell you something before they even know your name and we've all been in that scenario and I think what happens in this space is we gravitate towards people we build a rapport with them and then we end up going into business with them and I think they're the key differences so like coming into more of an open space where people can can give and take and then when you see that in the in the the marketing channels that people are using it's you know Open Spaces it's I think the main thing is that you're opening the community up to what's going on within the organization which is very different from Web Two to web 3 web 3 it's open book web 3 not just open source networks that blockchains are built on but the open book of of of of knowledge of information for the community to have access to and that is really key so any brands that I work with I say how important it is that you jump on regular spaces to tell the community what's going on Reg regular updates in terms of the road mapap they can be put out in for example medium or mirror articles that are then posted and re-shared in short form content on on platforms like X of course having a very uh engaged telegram Channel or telegram group is really vital as well and of and Discord you know using those social media server style apps like Telegram and Discord to really keep the the communication open you got to make sure you have your reply guys in there and then of course using platforms like X and onboarding people through Instagram just just like Max said I think it's important that we're using especially LinkedIn I think LinkedIn is probably leading in in terms of growth for web free space you can grow uh on on LinkedIn quicker than you can grow an X currently and I don't know how you guys are thinking about that the content that's coming through on on LinkedIn is really at a high level now I think they're trying to catch up with X on the crypto side of things uh but yeah pass that over to Max yeah um I I actually want to bring up like a real example which is like Pony you guys probably heard about the mum salana right um I would say it's a blue chip Meme and um if you look at the Tik Tok they have a Tik Tok page which I found out recently and uh yeah the Tik Tok page is actually quite funny and they have millions of views and millions of comments um the only what I've noticed is that the only thing they did is just to create like high quality content like obviously they have their own uh you know way of creating the narrative and you know kind of creating the videos but they're actually funny um so I think people like the videoos even if they are no crypto they just like the videos right so to on board or at least to change uh from just posting on X focusing on X which probably most of the projects out there are doing um the same content you create for x or Reddit or whatever other channel you're using Tik Tok Instagram all the other social medias are literally working the same uh so yeah it's content first absolutely content like I've seen content is what what essentially Works uh obviously it's consistency don't expect overnight to have millions of followers and people liking your post um and that's definitely something I've been focusing this year with all the clients we've been working with essentially it's focus on content and be unique you know you need to have your own way of creating content don't just copy someone uh then the second part I think like other avenues that I've seen on boarding now obviously it's not Web Two it's more web three right which probably web two are no usern it which is brave ads and telegram ads right so we have some Avenues where web two are not actually promoting which I think in a second stage Web Two will come to web three Aven to promote themselves right so it's a little bit of both um where web to they have their own unique ways of selling their products or promoting themselves and web free they do focus on specific channels but at the end of the day it's communication right uh if you want to have your brand positioning you want to be everywhere you should have YouTube channel open you should have Reddit you should have X all the social medias open and yeah just create content on all of them I mean if you might have a user base on Reddit which is not the same user base you have on X or on Tik Tok so you are missing out so if you are any way creating content and the communication is done for X just do it for the other channels as well um and obviously that means communication about the brand uh definitely not promoting the token I mean py on on Tik Tok they are not promoting the token it's just this funny character Mony that is actually you know trading and being excited about the the trade so it's it's yeah it's purely communication right um yeah funny enough I mean with the memes in this year I've seen definitely the best content out there ly like u in terms of uh unique content and yeah I think yeah content is the main definitely the main yeah without repeating what you said because iug um basically what we hear is we still use the old platform I mean the web two platforms to communicate about web 3 um and it's great everybody has his favorite I agree with LinkedIn what you said but basically we do this because there's no real web3 social media platform right now so that's just a conclusion no one is like the leader of the market so far that's what I meant so we're communicating about web 3 on web two platform is because there's no web 3 platforms that are mass adopted yeah and a personal I will'll get you in a sec a personal opinion here is that what Victor said is actually very true there isn't one dominant social platform however there are protocols that are trying to build the we three social platform are any of you here on foraster hand up if you're on foraster okay great you guys connect after this is anyone here on lens yes okay we're on lens there are protocols out there such as lens protocol and forecaster that are trying to be the leading social uh platform for web 3 however also a personal opinion once the wars between these social belongings which platform are you on a stop then we're best position to have our next leading unified web3 social platform yes sir you had a question yeah I I love it you're straight into it you know we've got through the appetizers straight into the main course I would love to jump in on this first and and then pass it over but I think the key thing that I like to do and you need to take a step back first of all look hone in on your icps which your independent customer profiles who is your target market who are the people that are going to buy or use your service buy your product or use your service and once you've once you've honed in on them you need to think about everything from the way that you're me the brand messaging the the you know relaying the culture of the brand but more importantly establishing your content pillars because M said something that is so true like you could have all the money in the world you could have the best product or service if you're not have having uh consistent content that's going out where people can see come into the community they're seeing the content that's coming out you're never really going to get traction for that brand so when you when you H in those content pillars um I I want to touch on something that I use personally which is called the marketing hourglass technique now I didn't coin this but what you're doing actually is not just bringing in enticing in people with the content that they that resonates with them but it's a constant Loop so most people know that sales funnels they lead to a dead end the customers onboarded and then that's it there's no other conversation so what marketing hourglass technique is about using uh and I forget the the guy's name but a marketing uh kind of Guru of 1980s he said that you're constantly reselling this do include things like loyalty programs brand ambassador programs uh referral programs what you're doing is you're constantly re-engaging that user to a point where they're helping the the brand grow they're not just they're not just using your product or service they're actually helping the brand grow by onboarding more people and this is what we have to do and something that I was uh actually work with being crypto for a number of years and obviously Victor what a team they have there we were really an integral part in launching what was known as well the educational arm which we're going to come to because education is a huge part of what you need to do in the space but the actual brand ambassador program having an army of individuals that are working ad advocates for you and I think that's what's really important that people are missing and I think we're going to probably go into this a little bit deeper but the next iteration of how we're growing going to grow in this space as Brands is actually Bounty Bounty campaigns these Bounty campaigns people are going to come on board work for the brand help help hit your targets and they're going to get incentivized and rewarded for the work they do and we're going to see a lot more of this so brand ambassadors is the first part of that question like like to say to as a strategy standpoint you need to establish early on and then coming into that which I'll let the guys take over from me now but going to these parts where you're actually going to grow each aspect so marketing so we need some people here that are going to grow this campaign we need people on the community side that are going to engage those individuals and then just making sure that you're kind of you know putting everything into a bow and making sure that the community is growing consistently um like to jump ma yeah sure um I mean you ask a very complex question in terms of we can stay here and speak for hours but in general like he said something true when it comes to the communication side I'll just give a little bit of an example on how we work with the clients for example right so first first of all was the introduction call right you need to understand the brand tone uh the brand positioning what's the product what's the road map what internal resources they have because some teams they come to me they like yeah we have a content creator and then I'm like hey he available always like can you know like if there is a last minute uh news can we create some you know funny communication regarding your product and the you know last minut new because that's what attracts more uh views likes whatever right so obviously we understand first of all the you know uh business proposition of what they are selling uh road map and then we help them first of all with the content calendar content creation right we understand okay what's your communication looking like now what we do then we leverage their communication with amplifying the communication and getting more audience to see the communication right so we still go back to content creation communication right so they have great communication we now amplify how we amplify that we do have obviously KS right everyone knows web free space is kind of leadit by the K somehow or these ambassadors or ke key opinion leaders the way you want to call it but um yeah we try to import ambassadors uh when I say amb I like to call them ambassadors because K sounds like you know scammers but in general ambassadors why you want to on board those people they are not there just for the 23k Post they understand the product they probably use the product themselves and of course they get paid for that but they will promote it more in a you know in a way that they make the product their own right so you you get an ambassadors obviously you analyze which J to you know sponsor your product which countries which regions was the target audience definitely you need to understand that and then after that essentially you just understand the other avenues you have KS is not enough right Ks are not always the best way of entering a market or promoting a product so well we we personally are exploring um telegram ads for example right it's something new came out this year a lot to be improved behind the scenes but we still trying to leverage telegram user base to promote projects we use Brave ads Brave ads has 25 million users daily and brave ads is known as the web free browser right so if you think about it and you want to promote yourself that you actually have the Right audience now you can obviously Target your audience similar to meta and Facebook ads but at least the people you are speaking with it's essentially people they've been trading or like owning nfts so we really like try avenues that probably other people don't know they never heard about it and when we when we speak with the client essentially obviously really related to the budget right the spending because some clients they have high expectation with low budget and I'm like look I would love to help you but we cannot really work together right so um yeah we explore different Avenues uh promoting the project is promoting your communication essentially so everything comes from your that easy content calendar that you have to create with your nice visual with your n whatever road map news upcoming and then leverage all the other channels to amplify and get more users to see what you're telling to people so it's a narrative right I mean you have to speak about your brand um and yeah that's it then obviously if you're on board users what's the call to action at the end you want people just to sign up you want them to trade you want them to whatever buy your product do some onchain activity whatever so it's a process obviously right it's a funnel um but yeah I think that's kind of briefly explain how we work with clients we try to understand definely their brand their product road map what's upcoming and then yeah we do PR as well I mean Pi is definitely one of the Avenues I I look into it that's good way to amplify your user base um and yeah all the other good stuff all the channels we trying honestly we trying this year all the channels like there is no such web free web two social media it doesn't exist X is not a web free social media we call it web free but there is so many like users that are not related to web free on X like you know I won't call it web free by yeah definitely I will I will uh you know just look into all the socials and try to communicate on all of them yeah and to position this question one sec sorry for uh Victor you as a representative of B crypto you're one of the top three media Publications in web 3 how do you approach Community growth and perhaps getting that content out there for the partners that you have when it comes to advertising and promoting in an organic way that seems natural to your audience thank you um I think people are loyal to the one that bring them value so usually what works the best is learn articles so people that join web through whenever they joined it they remember how they learn who they learned from and what happened with the information they used uh from that that outlet so usually the the is just not like a news or like a launch of a product it's more like learning about the industry and and then when they trust a certain content certain content maker uh they come back to you and they and they trust you for purchasing amazing so it's a lot of trust building and it's what I'm hearing you say is meeting people where they're at and winning their trust as opposed to expecting that they would trust you without knowing you you had a question hello everybody so um my question is this one I'm wondering why in the web threee world we are thinking to do things different so we went to have a web three marketing we went to have web three social media and so on so but the reality outside of of here is that people don't care about what is the the the platform that deliver their services they just want Services if you look to the explosion of web 2 nobody told uh people oh we are doing Web Two And this is a revolutionary technology okay they get they got um new way to communicate they got new way to interact with websites they got new way to uh to to buy online and that changed the the the the life of people so that's the the the real point and I want to to to hear your U uh your comment here so if we want to uh make this technology effectively um available for people and make a massive uh let's say JUMP no in terms of commercial in terms of diffus um of the technology we need to change our wording we need to change our mindset and offer people Services uh they want Services they don't want they don't care about it's web treats on the on the uh blockchain or or or what else okay that's uh I want to hear your uh your opinion on that yeah great great question I think it's you're exactly right you're hitting you're hitting on something that's really important it's not about you know wiping this late clean it's about using techniques from a web two space that that operate that work in a web 3 space but I think something that Max said that's really what I'm trying to say here is that it's we have an opportunity to change things change things for the better because there is also techniques and strategies used within the web to space that are outdated that are not you know for example remember when you used to call people and sell them on the phone like I mean that's just not a thing that's used anymore and and this is why I think suddenly I said something at the start you know the best way to sell is to not sell I think that we're we're we're just adapting we're pivoting slightly as to the the the the angle the direction that we're doing to to actually entice these new users because don't get me wrong we've got people that will always use our products and services but when we onboard new ones we need to find a way that encapsulates them and brings them on board in such a way that they want to be part of the brand that they resonate with that brand so I think the key differences is that we use the we use the things that work well in web to but we're adapting them in such a way that's going to allow us to have more consistent more cyclical growth in in that sense and not having to constantly spend money on these campaigns to then onboard new users because really that's what it's about and when you think about meme culture today and what memes have done for cryptocurrency as one aspect I mean Richard Dawkins wrote wrote the book you know a selfish Gene which was in 1972 I believe so memes have been around for nearly three decades now but only now is the culture getting used so uh I what I what I'm trying to say here is that there's things that have been used in the past that have evolved in such a way that now are become the next generation of of what we're doing so I don't think that we're changing the marketing where we're just adapting them and I think that's what's really key is that don't reinvent the wheel you know we have to use the momentum that we have within the marketing space but we also do have to change it slightly and adapt it and I think that's what really what the space is trying to do uh don't get me wrong I think there is aspects of it that are almost like trying to completely just you know nuke everything else that's happened thus far but it's not it's really about you know finding a way that will you know allow for more fruitful markets for each organization that's operating in that space um but interested to know what what you guys I have just a quick one I mean it kind of covered everything but um I think what what you said you're right right there is no distinction between web to web free marketing it's it's a wrong it's a wrong approach it's a it's a wrong thinking of the marketing marketing is marketing for everything right I think what's missing web free uh on boarding all this m adoption is the user experience like using adap using any application on chain for a normal person common Web Two guy is not easy like for them it's like wow what's this right so I think marketing is not marketing missing out on on boarding the next billion people is the user experience of the products in web free I do I I mentioned before we do use all the channels so for me there is no web to web three like for me Tik Tok X whatever whatever Channel whatever your way you communicate I take the same approach for web to business that's it doesn't exist no it doesn't exist I think that's a very good take and it sounds hopeful to say we don't have to Nuke everything and burn it to the ground and be like that wasn't me on Instagram I never did that you know and start over um so what I'm hearing you say Max is you meet people where they're at and um Victor what would you say are some tips or what is the approach that BM crypto has to meet people because as a publication of this size you're obviously speaking to an audience that is perhaps interested in crypto that is more of a newbie you have people who are Advanced you have people who are crypto native what are what are some approaches that b crypto uses to um give valuable information and to Ain all of these people in that audience okay interesting so two parts meet digitally and physically uh digitally well we have all kind of level of learn articles so and news articles so either you're already part of web 3 and you're G to go to a very like complicated technical review because you already understand your stuff but we also for the newbies and honestly most of the time it's most of the audience we try to like popularize vulgarize everything um so it's very important it's very hard to do because kind of as you said like we usually talk in between US just in the same industry but when you go out of the industry and you talk to somebody else like you speak another language nobody understands um so yeah really try to explain in the easiest terms but also I would say I agree with you we don't not everybody needs to know how it works in the end like everybody there's 100 people in the room 99 people do don't know how email works but all of them use emails because it's useful they know why so in the end we need to show people the use cases of web 3 and not the blockchain technology or whatever it is behind it it's very interesting in between us but it's not interesting to mainstream public that's such a good point and it's almost like you don't need to know how the salami is made to have it on your pizza and enjoy it Kat did you have a question no go on go on obvious can you hear me yes obviously in web 3 you have a c the average customer has way more customer awareness than in the rest of uh than in other markets so to say in other niches but it's um more and more so to say bleeding into the into the that's let's call it average world and so via Jey which maybe I have an nft attachment on the blockchain and so what strategies would you uh employ in that case because of course someone may be interested but but web 3 has so much distress around it there's so much so nice but N I don't know what it means you're s charging me so how would you approach a strategy to Market something like that sure yeah I think it's a great question because Victor was just talking about education and how important that is around this space because when you think about it we're we're in the we're in the next iteration of the internet web 3.0 is really about us being part of building the future of the internet we're in the fifth generation of blockchain but when you coincide those all that means is that we're actually actively part of the GR grow even if we're not developers developers have built the foundation and this is why blockchain is the industry I've always wanted to work in because we're part of the change or the democratization as we call it of the internet so you said something that's really important is the scams the things happening to people this is always going to happen and no matter what industry working the key the key difference is that within this space we're the ones responsible for it so if we onboard someone into a community and they get scammed through an nft that wasn't us wasn't a community a community manager with someone else that falls on us doesn't it so so I think every single organization in this space has a duty to provide education so education is really the the long answer and the short answer because if we provide a safe haven and a and a and a on a safe platform for people to come in learn exchange buy nfts as an example they're always going to have risks involved for example even transferring money to your friend there's going to be a risk involved you know it might send it to the wrong address but within this space absolutely those risks are even more prevalent so I think it's really important that from day one you have a a network or of people around you that you can trust and that's what's some some sometimes difficult for people that are coming into this space is that they don't have that security chain it per se do they they're kind of coming in as a Lone Ranger they might be a little bit embarrassed to ask for help so what we need to be doing and and making sure that on the regulatory side organizations are held accountable for those kind of scams you know I remember working with being crypto and the amount of times people would come in and pretend they're you know a social media manager and scam someone so this needs to be acted on straight away because the more that this happens and sadly every bull cycle we're coming into the Super Cycle now which you guys are all aware about but every bull cycle these scams and go up about 80% so what we have to do is see the correlation between the markets themselves and the the way that they the volatility of those markets and how that kind have a knock on effect on the individuals coming in because you have to realize as well is that every single wave that comes in for example right now with the mcoin Mania that's been fueled by on the salana blockchain there's so many people in that space are losing money that are buying into rug PS that are getting scammed so we need to make sure that in advance we're saying like look this is how you do it this is how you navigate the space and I think you know especially organizations like being crypto in the way that they do it with offering these learn articles the academy offering educational support every major Foundation that you you'll see today every major blockchain that became a foundation has now got an education arm and this is exactly what you're talking about which is so important so I'm glad you raised that question and interested to know what what the guys think as well yeah I mean uh you're right honestly I think the only option is education um I remember the Ico era and it was very similar to now right um obviously they were calling different the the startups or these new techs coming up with all these nice uh Technologies icos and people B into it and they lost money so I think each season each cycle we do have scammers like it's it's kind of part of the game right um so the only way to avoid that is like to know what you're doing right so I think we recall it to yeah being uh active educate yourself learn and brands should also have educational content educational arms and trying to help you to understand the product understand how to do the right steps uh we all do mistakes I've lost a lot of money in crypto in general right uh even sending it to the wrong Network for example in the beginning I was like what's going on right but no one was there to like teach me oh yeah you know need to select the right Network and uh it happens um I think we will always have scammers web 2 is full of scammers as well let's be honest it's traditional business business in general there is always someone there with a malicious intention to scam you steal your money so I'm not surprised no it's funny because even people have been in the space for a long time like we get scammed and funny thing you said there is the Ico ER about you know you come in on a pre-sale and and the market and the token doesn't even launch like we've all been there but I think the key thing that we do in this space is we talk about it so it's not just about talking about our WI about how much money we wake it's actually about talking about our losses and how to prevent that from happening to others and that's really where I think it's important to have that open Discord around that um you know and Victor obviously you probably work with us every day on that side um yeah even if it's a million users industry uh the makers the builders uh everybody knows each other as you said so I mean if you scam someone everybody's going to know people industry knows and that's something I I forgot to said earlier for the media and how we meet people so physically uh we don't only go to crypto events we also go to event that are more mainstream to meet people that are not familiar yet with with web 3 so it's important to to all meet and yes we I mean you know that all the scam checks we we we we do before we work with Partners but you you know there are always companies that going to pass the scam check like we as with being crypto never worked with FTX for example but lucky us but who knew you know what I mean so like if they if they knew like you should have spoken so do your own research very cliche but even if one media Tres being crypto but verify always um your sources and several sources yes Dior always Andrea I think we're out of time is that correct yeah that is correct I just wanted to point out that I guess all of you guys had that experience of like someone hearing your in marketing and be like oh you're in marketing oh um and like thinking that that that's a that's an easy thing to do but actually uh marketing is so crucial in web tree and this is why I think we should give a big round of applause and and support people in marketing respect just uh just want to say oh sorry just want to say one final comment there because there was one part that we didn't go into on the strategy side but developing Partnerships key key Partnerships within your organization is vital and one of the strategies you need to use coming to events like this aligning with other organizations that have the same vision that you have and and and collaborating with communities that to help your own growth and I think just like Andrea said it's the most difficult industry because usually it's the one that's cut the first you know as soon as marketing is not operating well as soon as not hitting your your parameters it's going to get chopped but that's what marketing is about guys it's about constantly pivoting constantly changing and adapting the strategies you're using to make sure that you get the results that you want and this is why it's such a difficult industry to to I think operate in is because it's constantly changing it's constantly evolving um but that's just something I want to say on a final note because really uh thanks again for today guys and we'd love to connect with all of you so please come up and speak to us about anything and you know we'd love to connect with you guys on a personal level so thank you thank you guys