14062026 CHAPEL INSTITUTIONAL PANEL
NapulETH Meetup·Sun, Aug 9, 2026, 12:00 AM
Transcript
Uh, our actually situations are entering this world because you have to think that uh, one of the main initiative from BGA was actually a UN accelerator program, right? We were in Copenhagen last last month and that's actually a sign on how our situations are entering this field. So, I would like to welcome in the stage uh, Glenn. Please come to come to the sit to the coach. Uh, Francesco Lamonaca from Consiglio Nazionale Giovani Presidenza dei Ministri and Alessandro Malventano from European Decentralization Institute.
Thank you. One second for the slide. It's pretty warm in this church, man. Okay, so uh, I will be the moderator. So, just to give you uh, in a nutshell of what is happening on the side of BGA for for the people that actually don't know this this association.
Like, you know, BGA from 4 years and it's part actually 3 4 years is is kind of like, you know, trying to understand if there is like a purpose. That's that's my view. Glenn, maybe correct me if I'm wrong. I think that BGA is trying to understand if there is like a purpose uh, a part of the profit organization. Like, is there is a real purpose for non-profit?
There is a real purpose for impacting the industry because like, you know, this industry started from Bitcoin, right? And from blockchain. So, we're really connected with the financial institutions with with the financial world. Like, blockchain is becoming a backbone of financial infrastructure. But, in my opinion, like one of the main takes of uh, BGA is like is there like any other use case that are not really related to financial financial purpose?
Is there like can be this technology used for uh, for profit for good purposes? So, that's why I invited Francesco Lamonarca that is actually like really helping to innovate Italy in my opinion with his is a community controverso and his role in Italian government and also invited Alessandro that is really working with closely with the European Commission with the European Foundation through his institute European decentralize decentralize institute. So, the main goal of this panel is like how institutions are entering in this world and actually is like how we can be little bit different from the main purpose that we always hear hear about this industry. Is there any insightful use case that is not just related to finance? Okay.
So, thank you everyone to be here and um mainly like I would like to start with you Glenn of course. Um so, like you know, BGA tagline is a purpose over profit. And yeah, I mean like it was founded by Bybit. We know it well, right? And now you are reach at the level of partnering with the UN and you made such good projects in the cohort like we saw so many impactful projects and good startups.
So, um what do you think? I mean like uh how you can serve this this narrative? How can actually sell this narrative of like you know, being impactful for good? What are what are the main metrics that you actually care as a association about um about these impactful actions? Like what actually means for good?
What actually means for impact for BGA?
Okay. So, that's very interesting question, right Gianluca? It's It's actually something that we have received a lot of you know, questions by the industry because it's very interesting. When you think about it, the Blockchain for Good Alliance is founded by Bybit and globally Bybit is the world's number two crypto exchange. So, sometimes people put two and two together and they're like, "What the heck?
That doesn't math out. It doesn't make sense." The world's number two crypto exchange creating a non-profit that it wants to back, you know, blockchain for impact projects doesn't make sense. And it's a it's a very it's a it's not hidden that, of course, BGA is part of Bybit's overall ecosystem. So, sometimes people think that, you know, there's a level of impact washing or green washing for these projects.
Like, "Oh, what's in it for Bybit when they created BGA?" So, there's a little bit of sensitivity over there, for sure. But, of course, I won't tell you that blockchain for good is automatically genuine. What I will tell you is actually whether you can check how real it is in any different situations. Three things that we can talk about.
The first one, does anybody actually benefit who isn't already in crypto? If the only beneficiaries are actually just token holders, then it's not impact, it's just purely marketing. The second thing, would a project survive, you know, if, let's say, you remove the token? If the answer is no, the project will not survive, then that's how you realize that the impact was never really the point. And the last thing is is is anybody outside this blockchain industry willing to put their name on it?
Whether it's a parliament member, whether it's your UN agencies, whether it's other governments or other NGOs, are they willing to put their name onto something like that? If they don't, then they definitely have done some diligence that the industry doesn't do itself. So, when you talk about what we are doing, what is really impact to us is about changing lives for the better. It's not so much about commercial profit when we talk about what BGA does. Of course, yes, Bybit is a major backer of BGA, and that's a very interesting concept that we like to deal with, as well.
But, one thing that we always say is that a lot of projects that we decide to back, that we decide to support, are not even, you know, directly contributing to the bottom line of Bybit itself. It's about really the impact that they have on the world, to the people, to the communities that they serve. And that is the true evidence that when we talk about blockchain for good and what blockchain for good alliance is doing, it is all about the heart and the soul of the project that utilizes blockchain for good.
Okay, thank you Glenn. Actually, I think that the gives a clearer explanation of actually what is doing BGA. For the people that don't know, I think that was quite helpful. Thank you so much. But like let's go more in a tangible way.
Let's try to understand what are one of the main pillars, what are one of the main actions that you have done this year and last year. For example, like maybe the the crowd is quite interested to understand more like what you have done with the UN with the United Nations. We were in together in Copenhagen. We are going in New York in September. So, I'm interested to understand like what what is your role?
What is the partnership with the United Nations? What you have done with them?
Okay, so nice question for marketing what BGA is really doing, right? So, the BGA is actually number one, we are a member on the UNDP's blockchain advisory board. So, we actually regularly convene to advise, you know, different programs and initiatives that the UN and the UNDP and other UN agencies can actually do to adopt blockchain properly across countries. And of course, UNDP has a massive distribution channel, right? The development program.
We are actually the founding members of what is the SDG blockchain accelerator with the UNDP. So, together with multiple other partners including those like Cardano, those like Stellar and a lot of other partners across blockchain and AI, we actually run a global accelerator. So, this accelerator is entering into its third cohort really soon. But in the first two cohorts, what we've seen is projects that solve problems for different UNDP country offices. So, when we piloted it last year, we had 76 different UN country offices that has come on board to say that, "Hey, this is a problem."
76.
Okay, 76 countries, okay.
76 different countries that actually say that, "Hey, this is a problem that I have. How can I use blockchain to solve them?" We match the different blockchain projects within the entire ecosystem to pair it together to solve these problems and pilot these solutions for the different countries. And the and the projects that actually managed to reach a certain level of scale in its pilot, they actually get to be deployed through UN's procurement processes to actually match on site. So, we have European projects that actually piloted BGA projects basically.
European projects that were based in Netherlands that are actually piloting in Africa. So, we actually bridge countries together like that through the alliance.
That's amazing. That's a real impact though. Uh and like you know, I want I want to try to follow this this uh this answer on on the next one like in all these projects you know now now it's been a while, right? That you are in BGA's like almost 3 years. And um like even with this partnership with UNDP and actually what is the main use use case that you see like which use case has more traction in the blockchain field?
Because we saw that blockchain started for as a financial backbone, right? And you are mentioning that over 76 76 countries all over the world actually uh try to use blockchain for for a good impact. Maybe might be for charity. Might be for uh uh you know, might be for actually trace water supply chain. Might be for digital identity.
So, in all these years, what is the one of what is one of the main use cases that that you think has actually more impact?
My friend, I actually have no real answer for that because the real answer is it really depends. We at the BGA and my colleagues that are here can verify this with me as well and you yourself also we have seen a lot of different projects utilizing blockchain for all sorts of purposes. Of course, we talk about some crazy projects that literally like to come up to us and say that hey, we have a crypto token and you know, crypto can make people rich and therefore that's blockchain for good but that's completely nonsense, right? That's not nonsense but that aside, we've seen projects that utilize blockchain for cybersecurity. We've seen them use it for supply chain transparency.
We've seen them use it for philanthropic causes. Recently, we even have a project that actually is using you know, NFTs to save cats on chain. So, literally they tokenize stray cats on chain and you can actually support them by utilizing these NFTs in a game. Kind of like reviving the whole NFT and metaverse era again but really you but really to push the concept that blockchain and decentralized technologies can even support street animals. At the same time, we also one of our most major most majorly backed projects that actually got a further investment by Bybit itself is a Spanish project called EthicHub.
They were in They are coffee They are backing coffee farmers. So, microfinancing to coffee farmers on chain. So, the real answer to your question, Gianluca, is there is no real answer to that. We see amazing use cases that perhaps people never really thought of before.
Let's say your number is 76 countries. For example, on topics of UN, let's say the the main three topic the main three use cases maybe traceability, digital identity.
Traceability, we talk about clean energy, and we talk about sustainability.
Clean energy and sustainability.
Absolutely. For across the UN system
Okay, thank you so much. These are This was quite helpful to actually have a glance of what BJ is doing, and I think that we highlighted the different use cases that are not just finance-related. So, that that's actually amazing, and you know, because there is all this bias that blockchain is just like related to finance. But, here is the proof that is not.
That's the fun thing, right? I never talked about finance at all.
Yeah. That that's all the point. Thank you so much, Glenn.
Of course. So, that was like the more impact view. I want pass to Francesco Lamonaca, and I'm more interested like on the public sector view, right? So, of course, you are non-technical like you know, you you come from a law background, and like you know, you are focused on also on economic backgrounds, but like from a public sector view, how do you see blockchain? Like do you see it as more a threat?
Do you see it as an opportunity? What do you see is your general opinion on on this technology? And do you think that government understand and actually try to implement this technology?
Yes. Um Good afternoon to everyone. Uh thanks, Gianluca. This is a important uh question because in my opinion, the all the reason that now are moving the institutional is the the fear. The fear to losing an opportunity, and the fear to uh improve some differences between countries, especially in the in Europe.
And most fear of Europe is a social dumping and other kind of dumping. Based on a different way of see these opportunities and also other fears that all the government inside Europe view the position of every national country is that is the fear of a disunion, a different normative between country that lives in the in the Europe. This is one of the most critical point that Europe for most uh, politics don't have an doesn't have a unique idea, but all country are moving alone, especially in the new technologies. Also, we are looking for the bellic problems. And all all the new technology like yeah and also blockchain has an important impact on the geopolitical geopolitical problems.
Yeah. Yes.
Uh, we are looking that in this period there is no more the the past stabilities and a differences viewpoint of view about the new technology can improve these differences between internal country. Also, a few years ago we can look at the establishment inside the position of politics in the world. We have two blocks, the America, China and Europe is neutral, was neutral.
So, in the middle, yeah.
Yes, in the middle. Today is a little bit differences because um the the support of America is not power like in the past. And China is a a new and important competitor on the all markets, especially new technologies, blockchain, yes. And we have to make some policy, some shows about who we are. Europe, what is Europe?
We are a federation. What we want to want to be? And the new technology and the blockchains will be the sector where will be a economic war. Who now keeps the structure and studies and they improve their systems will be advantage for the next year.
Yeah. All right, I really like your take because basically like we can say that, you know, now new technologies like as a kind of like power tools, you know? We had for example, Cold War and you know, there was the nuclear power that, you know, the country's strength was based on how many nuclear weapons you had, right? Now I think that, you know, the main power tools that actually is carrying, separating and differentiating countries is actually how much innovative you are as a country, as a region. So we can say that for example, now the real the real war is kind of like in the AI field, right?
Now who which country has the best AI model is quite like you know, winning on the race. And actually also on the side of blockchain, the country that has more innovative implementation of of this technology is way more advanced against the others. And as Europe, I completely agree with you that we are still in the middle and it's completely actually to center us. Also in terms of legislation, I think that we can say that maybe there we are like kind of kind of like positioned better if you compared to US or to China. Uh but of course like it's still like seen as a as a treat.
I agree with you. Like there are a lot of talks, there are a lot of implementations, uh but I think that after this um you know, all these Mika implementations this this year that we had a lot of gray areas, we will see next year uh more adoption scale, in my opinion. And maybe we can try to actually try to be competitive uh against other countries at least in the blockchain field. In the AI field, I don't I don't think so. It's quite uh I also mentioned Arnold on the other panel to actually say that that, you know, in the AI field it's quite hard to be competitive.
But uh I think that in the blockchain field in Europe we still have something because in my opinion my my Mika and Mika in general is like a real complete uh low systems that can have a template to scale for startups. Of course it's hard to implement because, you know, all the countries uh all the all the companies that came in Europe, they were not prepared to this legislation. Centralized exchanges, decentralized protocols, they were not prepared. So I can see from like, you know, pub- public viewpoint of view that is kind of like complex and uh it's seen as a as a fear, as a treat, as you as you were saying.
Yes, also another another focus on is im- important is the the normative system of the most part uh most uh European countries. Uh we come from a civil system of law. And we have a power bureaucracy. Uh bureaucracy come from two word. Uh bureaus that is the table.
And uh kratos is a ancient Greek word is a power. And now we we live uh we live uh in this system and uh for the external country this system is too much long, too complex, rich of differences procedures. But um we are we have a traditional of this system. And for us, this is a sort of a guarantees. For example, we we for for making a law, uh we make a lot passages between Parliament, Senato, and others institution.
It's fragmented like the bureaucracy is fragmented.
But, this is a a form of guarantees of democracy. Other country have a more a faster system of making law. Uh in the other country, the drafting is more more fast. But, when we work and when we draw the law, uh we have we do a important important work of balance. Because we believe that the the imposed the law isn't the best show.
Uh we prefer like our tradition, a balance between all the interests is in the in the play. And this is important for our tradition and for a guaranteeing for democracy tradition. Uh the other country has an other differences way to make law. And they don't understand why we are too much slow. Uh but, indefinitely I I I'm agree with our system only because I work in this and for me is really a guarantee of transparencies and and other civil rights.
Also, I think with the implementation of digitalization, also with the system of blockchain, will be more guaranteed other system other right like transparencies, uh security, privacy. Uh also, we we are living important discussion between who support more transparencies in the procedure and who support more privacy of person. And in in
There is a debate between more innovation like more caring about the citizen.
And we have to make a balance between who prefer the transparent transparency
Yeah.
and the others that prefer privacy of person. A blockchain is a good solution and we are working of a normative in this way. I hope that the the the work will will good and can we we are arriving in definitely normative that today is still still uh complete.
Still a still a gray area. Yeah, I hope that actually Mica also after this 1st July will a bit clarified the the current situation that is actually gray for for for players, for builders, for startups. Like it's actually you know affecting all all the business scale. You can be a startup, you can be be a small middle enterprise. You can be a large corp, but it's quite difficult to understand how to respect the law.
Because the the law is is is quite complex and we definitely need like a way to how actually achieve with that. But um uh you know like I'm curious to understand your point of view and then we will pass to Alessandro, but like um it's funny because you know blockchain is a technology that is out there for a lot, you know? Blockchain is not a new technology, right? Now it's bit trendy. Now we saw that institutions are following it, but I think that AI was way more disruptive.
Uh and that's for you like I mean I mean like you know AI is a way literally more disruptive as technology. Like if you have to compare AI and blockchain, AI is more disruptive because you know I tried to I tried to you know I tried to explain blockchain so many times to people around me. But blockchain is something hard to understand if you are not in the field. While AI, you know, with ChatGPT was way easier to understand it because even if you're a non-technical person, you use ChatGPT daily basis and it's way easier to understand. So, based on this concept of like from a public sector view, do you think that, you know, like the government now is like as the same balance or weights between AI new laws and blockchain new laws or like you do you think that the focus is more like on AI?
What is your take?
Yes, yes. We have a lot programs but especially on AI. And in blockchain we are in the past we are in the past. There is a a new technology that we don't have studies in in profundity. We have just some ideas but in my opinion there will be a lot study that have to study the sector and the improvement then a normative about it.
And this is because we want before to make a law. We want know the sector. This is important.
unknown sector. If the AI sector is way easier to analyze and also to, you know, understand how can actually be can be legitimated can be actually legal, you know, on specific point of view from both like the business side, the consumer trend sides. Blockchain is quite hard to define and how to work on laws and that. That's why like MiCA, you know, it's already hold, you know, as a legislation. MiCA went out doesn't cover so many topics that are related to Web3 world.
That's just because I think that bureaucracy is so slow and innovation is so fast, right? It's just like a complex different game.
I think that another problem in the Italian public sector is that all the politics men speak every every time a new changing the young in the in the office but we still live a problem that is the age of the public officer.
Exactly. There is not a generational change. Like the the general age of a member of the parliament is still over 60, having over 50, right? And that's why I like what you're doing with the Italian government and with your role because you run like uh with the Consigli Nazionale Giovani like you you represent the the people of under 35 in Italian cabinet. You you work closely with with Meloni.
You work closely with the people of the parliament, also with controversial. You are embracing this. So, I really appreciate initiative as yours and that's why I invited you in this in this panel. Thank you, Francesco, for your take.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Uh so, um let's start um Let's start also now, you know, we touched with the with Glenn like more on the impact view uh with the with Francesco more on the public sector view. So, we kind of like have a state of art of what actually is happening uh related to those topics, right? Um now, for you, Alessandro, like you are more like on the decentralization challenge, I guess, right? So, like you run you are part of this decentralization institute. So, to follow like the flow of this conversation, what do you think is the main blocker of institutions to embrace decentralization?
Because of course like we have institutions that are embracing AI. We have institutions that are embracing blockchain, but decentralization is something different, right? So, do you see that institutions are going to embrace decentralization or just maybe blockchain on a DLT scheme, right? On a permissioned scheme. Uh what are you maybe can you make an example of one of the best projects you see in the around the institute or with your relation with the Ethereum Foundation and with European Commission?
What is your take like the blockchain technology is implemented in the institutional side more as a decentralized structure or or permissioned structure with a DLT scheme.
Well, thank you for the question and by the way, great insights before guys. Thank you for for sharing that with all of us. I think that's it's really political choice because even AI and even blockchain and any kind of technology can be more or less decentralized depending how you design it. Right? So, it's very a political choice and institutions there they need to have a political will or political push to go toward decentralized solutions.
That's it. And they need to see the value. So, forget about the technology. Let's think about the real Yeah, technology is there and there are so many great solutions. We say that a lot of things happen at bottom-up and and so on.
But when we talk about decentralization, right? It's really a more political let's say aspect. So, what's the value of decentralization?
And what is your opinion around like you know, that you work closely with European Commission like what is your opinion? How they see them this decentralization value? They see the value I mean, they see the value those there is the MiCA, right? But they made the MiCA more to stop and to avoid fraud or whatever or they made MiCA to have the regulator. What is the the actual
All institutions, all governments, all enterprises are hierarchical centralized organizations since thousands of years of our human civilization history. It's been always like this. So bringing decentralized solutions it's not easy, it's hard and it goes against the real nature of these organizations many times, honestly. But, if they see the value For example, right now, you you mentioned geopolitical landscape. I mean, we are quite clearly in a multiple from international relations point of view, in a multipolar world, where you have different uh centers of powers.
So, resiliency, it's a key point. And the centralized decentralized solutions avoid unique point of failure, right? You see Ethereum as the world computer, but even internet and the World Wide Web, it's actually decentralized solutions. Well, the governance of it is very American-led, but anyway, it's
Also, Ethereum Ethereum is kind of decentralized or on AWS, you know, like so like yeah, like from a technical point of view, like I love decentraliz- decentralization narrative, yeah. But, also, we have to say that like there are kind of limit limits in technology, because as you say, like world web worldwide is decentralized, Mhm. But, then you see the servers are like on you know, on a few ends, on a few companies.
let's say, the World Wide Web was developed was developed in Europe, in in Switzerland, and it was not commercial, then it was commercially captured by big by US big tech, but it was not a commercial solution. It was
in the distribution of
Yeah, yes, right. Distribution of knowledge, information. That is That's internet. Blockchain brings in the trust on the digital uh world. So, that's is distribution of value.
Because when you have trust, that's why Bitcoin, right? And everything else. When you have trust, oh, yeah, that's that's has some value. And so, this is a real use case. This is a real value for blockchain and other decentralized uh solutions.
But, again, very important, the political design and political will, because even blockchain solutions or other kind of decentralized solutions can lead toward centralized outcomes or dystopic dystopic outcomes or so on. So, going back, sorry a bit
No, that's amazing. That's amazing. I like to brainstorm panels. Otherwise they are boring.
But going back to your point, if there is any blogger for institutions, I don't think there is any specific blogger. I think that actually even if it's not that known underneath, for example, the guys were talking about UNDP and United Nations, but even OECD, many international organizations have been piloting and and working on this since 10 years or so, 2016-17 I would say. So, I mean, it's not new this thing. We are 2026 now, right? We are actually last week I was in this event, I think you guys you were too there at Science Po with UNDP.
So, there were many blockchain foundations and other players from also traditional like us at the Po from France. They were saying, "Okay, yeah, we are in this blockchain phase now where we are transitioning from pilots to production."
anymore a a research, it's transition. I like this word. So,
It's becoming It should become the backbone of our digital public infrastructure. And that's very hard, that's very long-term, let's say, process, but it's happening actually.
I would like to end to you to to you and then also we'll come back to to Glenn for this question like I I like your your touch points and in your opinion, what what are the main use cases that institutions will embrace with blockchain technology? Like maybe transparency for for supply chains, sustainability, like, you know, what are the main use cases that you think that are actually are being embraced from institutions? Maybe digital identity. For example, like I love the concept of like, you know, from in Switzerland from the 1st January 2027 we will have the first digital passport. All in DK.
Actually, the project was already out a few months ago, but they had a big issue with privacy, so they stopped it. But from 1st January 2027, all all new passports for new citizens will be issued in blockchain, all digital passport using DK. So, I'm really a believer of DK technology as you know it already. We touched in other panels, but apart maybe of digital identity, do you see other main use cases on how actually decentralized technology are being embraced from institutions or just digital identity in Europe?
No.
Let's not touch financial, right?
Yeah.
Okay. Are there other use
Okay. So, going behind the financial applications, of course, but also the identity, you just mentioned it. As I said, is being I mean, blockchain is a sort Well, that's my view, but maybe wrong. It's a sort internet 2.0, internet of value rather than internet a network of value rather than network of information.
So, it's really becoming It could become in my opinion, will become in some point really the base, the foundation of digital public infrastructure, DPI. When you talk about digital public infrastructure, of course, you will you going to talk about health care, you going to talk about transportation, you going to talk about logistics, you going to talk about Well, these are three, right? You mentioned it, three. You asked three, but many more. I mean, almost everything.
Almost everything.
case?
So, we are talking about digital economy and digital society as overall moving Yeah, real economy actually in real society moving in the digital world, and blockchain is one of the technology in a decentralized manner that can make this possible at scale. Another very important point because coordination at scale is one of the main value also of of these technologies. So,
Thank you, Alex.
Really nice insight. Thank you so much.
So, yeah, as you can see, we made like a deep dive overview on actually how institutions are entering this world, and I was really really quite interested about the use cases because then like we say, "Okay, we talk about adoption, we we talk about transition." But in my opinion, it was really important to highlight the main pillar, the main use cases that are actually institutions are embracing. So, for sure, financial, we saw real world assets, we saw you know, tokenizations of bonds, treasury bonds, but also as we discovered today, digital identity, traceability, supply chain, sustainability are main topics that actually are being embraced from institutions. So, again, do you want to like to end with the your opinion about this topic? You have something to say maybe to our crowd or
Okay. For me, I'm not European, right? Obviously.
[laughter]
So, I said that I'm going to get like whacked on my way out here or maybe I'll get praised, I don't know. But anyway, so honestly, to the rest of the world, Europe has always struck as somewhere that's very like sustainability is very close to it. A lot of the a lot of the culture, there is that's really well preserved, always goes on to sustainability of the world, the environment. And I believe that in you know, in that aspect, we see a lot of projects that that come from Europe that are actually embracing this, how to save the world. One of our major projects right now is a project called Plastics that comes from Europe.
Yeah, you know the guys as well. They are amazing people, right? They are essentially piloting different types of projects with different UN agencies around the world to properly trace, you know, and turn plastic waste into usable credits that people can buy things with. So, turning plastic into usable credits. Yeah.
Yeah. It's crazy. Yeah. So, basically like Plastics is an amazing project that I saw as an advisor. And basically, what they do, they they take all the plas- plastic bags from you know, the the actual people Yeah.
Yeah. All all plastic uh tools that actually are coming from you know, football matches in a stadium, you know? Imagine like you go to a stadium and you drink Coca-Cola. So, you have people in Europe out there like you know, throwing away all these plastic bottles everywhere. And they created a nice nice system flow.
They they flow the plastics. Uh they they take all the plastic and they actually recycle the plastic and create create a system that more you recycle, more you earn. And then you can spend these credits again maybe to maybe win a ticket a free ticket to your team and so on. And that was done with Bayer Leverkusen that is like a famous football club in Germany. And that's based on blockchain but people don't know.
That's why what we should do. That's why we do this panels. Try to make you know awareness about the stuff because also Alessandro said now it's 2026 like research were done like 10 years ago. Now the technology is here and like actually is being implemented. So thank you everyone for the for this panel.
I'm really happy of the topics that we touch. If you have any questions, of course you can come to us. It was the last technical panel of the day. Now we will have visions and some artistic related stuff. Thank you everybody.
Thank you.
[applause]
Automatic transcript — names and jargon may be misspelled.