Beyond the Dollar: Driving Real Usage for Local Currency Stablecoins - Panel

Hello. Hello. Well, fantastic. Thank you very much and thank you everyone for sticking around for the last panel of the day and our lovely speakers uh to let me parade them questions about uh local stable coins. So, let's do this first in an ordering fashion.

Uh let everyone introduce themselves, tell them a bit about themselves and then we can get started.

Should I start or the celebrity next to me?

No, I think you should start.

Uh so, hi everyone. I'm very pleased to be here, not only here at this event, but in Buenosirus again. Um, you know, perhaps you cannot give by the accent, but I am Brazilian and I and I do love to come here every single time. My name is Daniel Mangaba. I am currently the VP for policy and strategy for Latin America at Circle and I'm looking very much forward for this debate that we're going to have today.

Um, hello everyone. Happy to be here too. Uh, happy to be traveling to Brazil tonight. So, we're going to switch countries. Uh, my name is Gido Messi.

I run the institutional sales team, Adrio. It's an Argentinian crypto blockchain company. Although it's Argentinian, it already has expanded to eight countries. So, yeah, happy to talk about stable coins.

Hi everyone. Uh, my name is Tony Orlando. Um, I am the co-founder and chief janitor at uh, VIFI Labs. We are building a DEX for non-USD stable coins and just driving price discovery for um, for these assets on chain. Hey y'all, I'm Julian.

[clears throat] I'm the head of uh, Nosis. Um, as Argentinian um, I love stable coins because we don't have one. Um and at Nosis we are building infrastructure for neo bankanks and as such obviously stable coins are really important particularly local currency st coins and yeah going to all be talking about how to promote their their usage.

Fantastic. I'm your host today the internet capabas a crypto uh advisory firm bridging defi and trafi. So to kick off the panel about local stable coins, I would like to ask you uh why local stable coins and I'll do a bit of a preface as like it's been so challenging to create a DeFi ecosystem uh with different AMMs and lending markets and derative products built on top of them and they all reference the same underlying asset being the US dollar. Uh why go through all the trouble of doing the same thing but for uh local currencies? and anyone can take this question.

Should I go? Okay. Um I I I think we can all agree [clears throat] that the US dollar is the dominated currency in in the world and that's fine. I don't think there's an immediate challenge on that. But there's another part of the reality and and that is that different countries still have their own local currencies.

And if you go into those countries, uh, everything is denominated in those currencies. People earn their wages, buy their groceries, uh, rent their apartments. All of that is, I would say, 100% done locally on their own currency. If you go to Brazil, they might not even know the exchange rate. Something that in Argentina we we like prayed like as a mantra every day.

But outside Argentina, people are happy with their currencies. They don't get the sense that they're getting devaluated every single week. And that sets the stage you know for a digital local currency because you need I mean you don't need it but the proposition is that um tokenizing money and bringing those assets onchain is going to provide a a far superior experience in terms of how you save, how you do transactions, how you fulfill contracts, how you do different things. So I would say I don't want to be like blind to the fact that outside the US dollar there are still a lot a lot of countries with healthy currencies and I don't think they're going anywhere and and so it makes sense after seeing what the US dollar stable coin industry has done to to come now with a proposition where every single financial industry in every country can have that same product or at least uh something equivalent and and you know get all of the advantages of of that network of of a blockchain you know uh being the the building foundation of that those assets. So for me it makes a lot of sense and I'm happy that the US dollar has paved the way before that because it has like not only the technology but the acceptance and now that we know that the technology works uh I think it's easier for local stable coins to have a you know a new a new go at this.

Yeah. to to build on top of that. Um half of the Argentine economy is informal and um this is the largest denomination bill in Argentina. It's like worth less than $15. So you you can see how much of a pain need is to to pay for things, right?

In in in an economy. Look at this. It's from him anyway. So you can pay him later. [laughter]

Yeah.

It's already a market here. What's going on? It's an artifact. Can you pass along so we can evaluate as well?

Yeah. So my point is um steins really improve uh UX right of payments um in a [snorts] country where um half of the economy is Oh, nice.

The Nigerian.

That's the How much? How much is this?

What are those? Wow, that's like

Tony

less than a dollar. I lost. Well, another day in crypto. Um so um going back to this in a country where half of the economy is is happening uh in cash being able to tokenize this and improve the UX uh incredibly with with the use of of stable coins which is um digital money non being tracked by tax agencies. It's going to be a massive improvement.

it will save people thousands of hours um for traveling to do payments. If you have like a supplier uh in another province, it will save you maybe six hours per per month to pay your suppliers because it's just you can simply do a transfer. Um and and there's there's another topic which is how how do you or or why would you do this on on on local stable coins if if it's already

[snorts]

um done on on on US dollars? I think the the answer is you don't have to like the the the rails for dollar against local currencies already exist and you don't really have to recreate that on chain. and you can just tap on on what already exists and bring that on chain.

Yeah. So just the additional points um to make to that um I did a lot of work in the in this year with the Kenyan government in terms of advocating for stable coin policy and ensuring that we have a role for local currency stable coins. I think an important piece that they play is monetary sovereignty. Um, so from a monetary sovereignty standpoint, having a local currency stable coin allows you to be able to price your crypto ecosystem. Um, and so there's there's there's a there's a way that you could actually enforce KYC, AML, and a lot of your local regulations on the local currency stable coin to ensure that the central banks still have the same levers to be able to pull.

Um and if on and off ramping is happening through the local currency stable coin then it basically restores that kind of so monetary sovereignty that's important. The the additional point I'd also like to make is that USC stable coins represent a systemic risk to crypto. Um they are now a proxy for US sovereign debt. Um, and if you're looking at the recent legislation that came out, I think last week or something, they have been enshrined as syncs for US sovereign debt. Now, are we comfortable taking this on as a corebased asset that we're going to we actually going to use to build this new future that we're looking at in terms of um crypto and all of these things or are we going to price US stable coins as the increasingly risk risky asset that they will continue to be?

Um so so if you're if you're if you're okay with US inflation then we we would we we would then be okay with the the proliferation of USD stable coins but any any half decent economist will tell you that they represent a systemic risk and so we need to define a place and a role for our local currency stable coins to be able to price our own tokeniz our our uh our WAS that will actually becoming onchain and the need for us to denominate yield from from different parts of the world in um in in um in currencies that essentially support further um further uh innovation and monetary sovereignty. Let let me try and add one or two points and I'm I'm going to try to go back to the more structural aspect of uh of your question as to why should we go down the trouble of uh you know issuing uh local stable coins right uh I think that conceptually it's hard to think of an idea of financial inclusion and monetary resilience with USD reference stable coins only right I think that for the sake of understanding the local idiosyncrasies of economies, it makes sense to think of a locally reference stable coin as well. That's the conceptual aspect of it, right? But uh I wanted to share two examples and I think that uh you know the first one really builds on what both Gido and Julian just mentioned uh you know just a short while ago. Uh I think that uh when you think about regulatory projects and then you know I I'll excuse I'll take the liberty to go back to Brazil just to borrow what you mentioned.

We do have a specific project about digitizing our local currency, right? We have a project on the HA digital. It's named DRA and it's hard to think that DRA having the penetration that is supposed to have without having a a locally reference stable coin, right? So again we do have uh the the dollar reference stable coins serving different purposes like internationalization uh international trade uh remittance all of that but for the sake of uh the internal economy for the sake of monetary resilience for the sake of regulatory compliance it makes sense to think in terms of a locally uh reference stable coin but the other thing that I think is way more interesting and again I I hadn't think about that but uh you know it got when you show the the u you know the peso right or you know the paper because to me when we think about stable coins we're thinking about infrastructure more than anything right we're thinking about you know uh the the structure of monetary of the monetary values of the future potentially it costs more money to issue that piece of paper than the amount of value that the piece of paper actually carries that is so counterintuitive it makes no sense whatsoever. Right?

So, a piece of paper holds less value than the cost to produce it. And I think that the reason why that happen and again I'm speculating, right? Perhaps that's the case, but you know, just to illustrate my my my speech, uh perhaps it makes more sense for us to think about how can we build structures that are more cost effective and that allows for a more cost-effective use of our resources in our society. And I think that the technology that that is brought by, you know, blockchain and stable coin, digital assets more broadly understood uh is part of the answer to that.

Actually, in 2023, we were importing pesos bills from Brazil.

Yeah. And just to clarify, the globally uh accepted benchmark for the cost of producing a bill should come in at less than 1.5%. value of the note which in most concurrencies it doesn't quite cut it yet.

So we've been I think as an industry we've been focused quite a bit on building the foundational rails or the infrastructure for all these things to actually happen and uh we keep saying that mainstream adoption is um about to about to crystallize and it's every this year is going to be the year and it's not hasn't been the case. Um so talking about and focusing more on the last mile and basically reaching the actual uh customer uh of stable coins. Uh what do you think are the key room the key elements uh for that adoption? I feel like uh from a circle's perspective this might be quite a different strategy than what Nosis has uh in mind. So love to hear your opinions deferring opinions if

to exist

go for it. I think um there's a couple of aspects to the question. Um generally speaking, the stable coin that is going to win is the one that wins at distribution and the one that will win distribution is the one that is going to get their hands dirty. It's a stable coin issuer that will go to talk to merchants and get them to accept the stable coin. is going to talk to shopping malls to it's going to go to where the economy is most transacted in cash and convince them why this is more convenient than carrying a bunch of bills.

Um as long as they are good educating them on both the benefits and and how to do it they're going to able to do it. regarding what we are doing at Nosis. Um we are creating um an API it's called Nosis ramps that's going to wrap all stable cocoin issuers API

[clears throat]

uh we're going to create onchain FX markets and are going to enable users from all around the world to on and off ramp to crypto wallets can tap into our APIs no matter what their chain is. They simply integrate one API user Kases with noses once and they get access to I mean we do KC sharing with them. So the user it abstracts away all of the um issues implying about having to co over and over and over again with a lot of different providers. Um, and I was still in Guido before, like there's uh half a million Argentinians living in Spain as I am, and we all have to pay for the shrink. Um, so we I I um I remember a few months ago um I I tried um to to get my girlfriend to um to to swap from euros to pesos using central exchanges and stuff.

She didn't have any account. She had to, it took her 14 steps. Like she had to register in a bunch of different exchanges, KYC in all of them, transfer, learn what the is Polygon or whatever or something. That was the cheapest one. What is [snorts] this Zox weird thing, you know?

Um, we are creating the infrastructure for abstract obstructing all of this. Users don't really need to know that crypto is being used. That that's just a vac. It's a back end of the future finance. In the end, it's just an app where you sign up with your face and you can always see once just like in any normal financial app and then that's it.

You get access to you're able to tap into the global equity layer. You get all of the access to great financial products that if you don't live in the US or in Europe, you might not get access to and it's just few clicks away. Can can I can I uh go after use that as a segue? I promise I'm going to go quick on this because I very much agree with everything that you said, but I do think there is some obvious u other elements that normally they're not taking into uh as much consideration as they should, I guess. Uh and they're very simple.

Perhaps people in the back's going to think that, you know, what I'm saying is dumb, but uh what we see is that UX counts a lot. Uh and and again you know uh crypto is not trivial and for people who is uh part of that universe who's been using that uh for a long time perhaps then again it goes without thinking but for new entrance and especially while we dive into you know economies more deeply we get more penetration we get more institutional use UX is going to be more and more important and and right now I don't think it's being given attention that it should, right? So, uh I think that UX to me is is a big thing. The other thing is that uh again thinking about less mile, right? Uh on and off ramps is is instrumental, but the reason why I mentioned that is because I think this is going to be very closely connected to regulatory uh advancements.

Uh and I think that then again you know uh coming from Brazil not too long ago on and off ramping was a nightmare [clears throat] right because again you know uh uh financial institutions or banking institutions those guys were shying away like crazy from crypto uh up until the moment where regulators started to step in and provide some endorsement to the industry in the sector uh you know things change like from water to wine you know from wine because I'm an Argentina of course uh but I but I think this is uh this is very important as well. So again you know thinking about UX thinking about you know how regulation is going to play a very important role I think this is going to be key for for less mile adoption and for us to have is strengthen penetration in in countries and markets. Um, [snorts] one of the things I I I I feel like we're downplaying is the the powerhouse that, you know, financial industry is. You know, I think distribution here is key. uh in our case for example I mean not through stable coins but through other tokens since we've turned into going into B2B a B2B strategy not so much as a wallet an exchange we've signed with partners like I don't know Bangquit or Marcado Libé and we've seen adoption go through the roof in terms of you know wallets stable coin uh usage and stuff like that.

So, one of the things that I that I want to see is you know the crypto industry just providing uh products for the existing uh financial industry. I don't think I mean I don't care how much we try to put banks and neo banks and brokers on a spot where you know we feel like they're old out of fashion or anything like that. I I I know for a fact I've been working with them for more than 20 years. they still hold a very significant grip on how uh you know money moves around and and and I think it's it's a bit childish to ignore that and I think it's a much more mature uh proposition to go through them and just to you know to build products that they can consume and eventually their customers they're just going to go into their bank application Neo New bank, Revolute, you name it. And they're just going to consume the product as it is.

And so I think we we should pay a lot more attention to that. And and and I think it goes to the fact that you were saying just just yet regulation. You know, for example, we need banks to be, you know, sure that they can go into this technology without taking any more risks. And and that's not there yet. And I think once that is made clear, um I mean there's going to be a a gap there when they have to catch up with things.

But you know, I've been selling to banks and brokers for the last two years and there's no innovation and product team on a bank that is not talking about this.

It's it's not like they're they're dinosaurs and they just don't get it. They really get it. they they're a customer of us and they're just waiting to be able to do it. Uh so once that is done I think distribution is going to be like huge.

Yeah. Um yeah, just to echo your point here, Messi, [laughter] um I I think for me when we started off the whole discovery of how to build a decentralized protocol for um for FX, we had this whole um you know, pitchforks burning in front of the central bank type approach that was guided by our Bitcoin you know maxi philosophy. And then [clears throat] over time we found well it's businesses that are using that that that are using stable coins more than anybody else. And in the customer discovery process you realize it's people who are really have [snorts] very real legitimate growing concerns. I have a supply chain.

I need to pay um I need to pay uh my manufacturers in China and they they are suddenly accepting US USDT and I need USDT. what the hell is USDT? Um, can you actually help me? You get that. Um, and then you then you then have like the whole kind of process that they're actually trying to go through to secure all of these funds and all these things.

And so I think I think the role and the place that we we see the the the the onchain FX uh component of local currency uh stable coins play out is that we needed an onchain FX venue that would give you the price discovery that you need. Now the problem with our economies is that there's no single rate for USD. Argentinians know this more than anybody else, right? um Kenyans have uh the same problem

and there's a whole industry that doesn't want a single rate.

There's no there's a whole now that's a whole other that's a whole other like layer that you want to be able to delve into. And so for us who are building a decentralized protocol, we have to be able to um allow for arbitrage and like people to to to drive their own price discovery um for these for these USD stable coins but still enshrining a role and a place for the local currency stable coins as like a pathway to that so that we could retain monetary sovereignty but still have a means for people to be able to get access to USD stable coins at scale. Um and so and so the reality of the parallel market rate I think is it's actually something that is often overlooked when people are designing onchain effect solutions and the impact of you not really um um aligning the incentives that are required is that we have what we see today where most local currency stable coins have very shallow pools of less than 50,000 USDC be it on aerodyrome be it on unis swap be it and all of these venues um you have people designing um good friends at circle RFQ systems where it's going to be one-sided demand because nobody wants to hold the peso as much as they want to hold the US dollar. So it's these types of like really pertinent problems that we living in these emerging markets live and breathe I think have to rise to the occasion and design different solutions. we have one take.

I want to see 50 others. Um in terms of just like what how are we how we how how exactly can we solve this uh particular problem and how exactly can we do it in a way that is credibly neutral that is permissionless that allows for like dedic um um um free and fair price discovery in a way that could actually gain the trust of all of these players inside of the ecosystem where there is no house that is that is that is winning but there is like a decentralized permissionless credibly neutral protocol that allows for very clear and like um fair price discovery. Yeah.

Fantastic. Um so financial products I mean quite unique in the sense that they are this um quite peculiar product that uh the poor you are the more expensive they are. Um you have uh developing uh countries where there is a huge margin at which uh financial uh companies operate at uh which the users are paying for to access these products and if you go to more developed economies uh those prices uh basically bottom out and there's quite a bit of competition also means that the user is also quite richer therefore the opportunity to capture that value is higher. So my question on this is how do you feel about how do you quant quantify the benefit uh of an opportunity of going to tackle specific uh currency? I know for example Soo has the euro stable coin.

Um why is your decision making process of deciding which is the next uh currency that should come on chain and that you want to service those users. Uh and this is questions obviously for everyone applied. Uh that

I'll take that as a cue since you mentioned circle at the beginning. Uh I think this is a deep question honestly. I don't think that's a that's a simple one. I I think that uh there's many variables that guide that thinking and that decision making right I think that uh again you know not to lose the thread but regulation is definitely one of them just because you mentioned uh EURC which was uh to some extent a consequence and a byproduct of uh of the MA framework uh and of our desire to keep on servicing the European market. So that is one but I think that uh uh you know the other variables they they you know they they address uh also they touch uh the the opportunity that the market presents I guess uh I think that you know bottom line to me uh when I think about this and then again I'm going to take a couple steps back and talk more conceptually again uh to me uh instead of talking about the specifics of uh local regulations it's it's important to me to you know to to try and mentioned the philosophy around it, right?

And I think that I fast forward a few years when I think about how the world is going to be or at least how how we would like the world to be, it's going to be a world punctuated by, you know, locally referenced stable coins but with this broader global settlement settlement layer which potentially is going to be provided by USD reference tokens, right? Because they're not going to have the reach and uh and and the monetary power behind it. uh but I guess you know in the end of the day trying to answer more objective to your question I think that uh the variables are are too many from uh you know the commercial opportunity uh to the regulation around that uh I think that for us at circle is is normally a reactive process uh and then again we spot the opportunity we try to to work around it accordingly [snorts]

well for us I think uh it was a combination of things yeah it's ever one factor, but one of the factors is that Grip already has a footprint in seven different countries and we have clients on those countries and some of I mean one of several of those bigger clients. They need a product that can bridge countries. They have like the same customer base and they are so web three that they don't even look at countries like countries you know they're just customer base but eventually those customers needed a product. So, you know, it made a lot of sense for us uh to go ahead and and and start building uh and and the other thing is our our you know CEO Sevatiana and all of the Seale Street, they're just builders. They just want to build.

It's amazing. So, it was a you know, it was just a matter of time till they till they wanted to build this project. And I think it also came to a point where we realized that you know we've you know we've we've struggled with banks all over the world. We've struggled with effects rates. We've struggled with providing like a way for customers of us in different countries to to trade with each other.

Although we were in seven different countries, a Mexican client in Ripio couldn't do transactions in an easy way with an Argentinian customers. They were just two different companies providing the same product, but they weren't connected. So, at some point, it made us a lot of sense for us to start building uh you know, a way to connect things on chain. Uh and and from that idea we you know we we've started talking to partners or there's a commercial side of it like like you mentioned and and we started you know talking to you know maybe not partners but some you know guys on different industries and for example the effects industry you know I [clears throat] think it's there's a huge opportunity there for non US stable coins to start building you know uh synthetics swaps for those currencies. And I think yeah, and it's a great solution.

I mean, the FX market is still um it looks like kind of old dated because you're just swapping coins and that's it. But there's it's it's a huge industry. It's a huge business and it's a huge part of what our customers actually need

when they move money around. It it sounds like a bit dull, but it is. It's a huge industry. So you know those are part of the things that that started us with uh with uh providing you know with local stable coins and and so far the the reaction has been great. I mean, not only the crypto industry has been, you know, vouching for us, but also our customers and and all of those financial institutions, they they all see like an advantage in settling and moving money on chain rather than through local uh compensation uh agencies because they they they actually have a pain point there.

you know, capital markets for example, they settle on 24 hours later. So, having a better settlement [snorts] layer makes sense for them. Um, so yeah, a lot of things going on there.

Yeah. So, we've been jamming on this particular problem of effects for about 2 years now. um in designing a decentralized protocol um where I have lived a life as a um economist. I have spoken to regulators and legislators, help draft legislation um and run the gamut of talking to OTC desks and from people who are who deliver money on motorcycles at night to people who um sit as CFOs and are helping them design stable coin strategies. Um I think the utility of these local currencies stable coins will continue to sore.

Generally FX is a 7.1 trillion daily trading market. 7.1 trillion daily. Um if you take out G20 currencies um you're still talking about like close to a trillion.

Um if you're looking at uh our launch markets, Nigeria does 600 600 million daily spot trading on FX. Um Brazil according to my numbers are 7 billion daily spot trading. Uh Colombia is 1 billion. Um why don't we have a decentralized protocol that's powering this? What's the next stage?

If you have a if you have a decentralized protocol that gives you price discovery between these particular local currency stable coins like my dream is an Nigerian businessman no longer needs to hold USD. They could just fly to a destination country and swap using a decentralized protocol instantly on chain. We don't have that in infrastructure yet. We have a single take. We hope other people will have others.

But the the the very crucial role is you really need to be able to lock in on the regulatory aspect and local currency stable coins play a very pivotal role because they are the gatekeepers to the lo to the domestic financial system. And so be and so the we we have a responsibility to ensure monetary sovereignty and that our our economies do not end up worse than they were before but also democratize USD access in a way that um the future that I want to live in is that that that u manufacturer who's importing 100 pieces or a thousand pieces because they're running on blockchain rails they can now afford to import 1,200 pieces and sell it a little bit cheaper. And so with that be because because you fixed the USD efficiency problem, it means they could do more volume and people could get goods and services at a cheaper rate. And that for me is a future that we want to build and hope for. Yeah,

I don't have a lot to add. Um just two things. First, um regarding where do we head next? which stin I think it's we want to on board them all. Um we [clears throat] are pretty sure that um the future finance is going to happen on chain.

Um and it's significantly better that it happens on a neutral chain

[snorts]

um operated by well a very wide network of validators geographically distributed than via centralized entity um like circle. Um I if I'm a stein issuer um I don't want to go to um stripe network or circle network or teter network. I want this to be neutral because if I'm issuing razinary ice and at some point circle decides to issue Brazil and my business depends on circle that's going to be very problematic. So that's that's our vision. uh regarding uh quantifying the opportunity um I think around 5% of the whole transaction volume of payments is um US dollar based but um 99% of the stable coins are on chain are US dollar based that clearly a problem there so that means that we are really starting to see the scratch of what local stones can do.

Fantastic. Uh I appreciate your time. I would like to give you uh each one of you some time for closing remarks if you'd like. Uh if not, uh I would thank you again for this. Uh [clears throat] let me just kick off because I wanted to echo very quickly what Julian said, not reacting to this circle, but I think it's a fair comment by the way.

Go ahead. This is right. I think I I think that I know reacting to you and um you know combined with what Tony and Gita said uh we're talking about you know the opportunity and how huge effects as a market is but we are in Latin America right now and uh we are seeing governments and regulations whose attempt is to bring the whole real economy digital and uh when we talk about an opportunity this is a huge opportunity Brazil's economy has a$2 trillion GDP Argentina 700 billion or something. I might be mistaken. I'm sorry.

That's a bit sad. [laughter]

Around that. Uh

that was a was a cheap shot.

Uh it wasn't intended. I promise. Uh but I think that this is a huge opportunity. And when we talk about that, when we talk about bringing the whole real economy digital, I think there is potential for us to solve one longlasting problem which is uh credit. The price of money in our region is very expensive.

When you think about digitizing the economy, offering that as collateral, lowering the cost of money that could unlock many, many new opportunities for our people in our region when it comes to to to the real economy and I think that's tremendous. I think that we only scratching the surface. There's a lot for us to see and execute on that front. So on that note, I would love to thank for the opportunity. Um, it was a blast.

I mean, I've learned a lot from you guys as well. Thanks so much for having me. uh hoped and again I could contribute and uh you know always available for other discussions with that high caliber.

Um well I mean last remarks uh I would say the second half of this year has been very very interesting for Liipio and I would say for Argentina there's has been significant progress on regulation. uh there's been you know a new opportunity has given uh way in terms of tokenizing uh capital markets. We are taking advantage of that and we're providing products so that everybody can, you know, go ahead and and start using tokenized assets and and we've been starting to tokenize pesos and we're going to tokenize Mexican pesos, Colombian cups, Brazilian deis because we think that's the future that we want to provide our customers. But also because I think you know I mentioned a couple of times you know the distribution effect. I think that is coming.

I'm I'm seeing it as we speak to new customers and I think that's going to be like a huge boost to the way you know these products have are have been are starting to get used. So I would encourage everyone to start using you know local stable coins. They're going to find that being onchain and on a tokenized economy is much easier than you would think. I think we've made a lot of progress so far and and eventually, you know, the the the effects of this being used one more and more and more is going to bring a lot of opportunity and and eventually uh the adoption that we expect. So, thanks again.

Cool. Um I don't know what to say in the interest of time. So I'm just going to say thank you guys for the discussion. Yeah, it's been great.

Yeah, same. Um thanks everyone. And if you are stin issuer, you're working on in in a new stable coin non dollar, please reach out. We're going to support you, help you with liquidity, distribution, and use cases going to be around. And uh that's it.

Great. I want to thank our audience and our host for today. Uh, thank you for sticking around.