CTRL/SHIFT - 15 06 2026 PARTHENOPE STAGE - OFF THE PITCH: AI BUSINESS E GOVERNANCE NEL CALCIO

I would like to introduce Martina Casalini, who will present the Peach Panel and the Business and Governance of Football. Thank you. Good evening, welcome, and we're almost at the end of this control shift, of this edition, and we've decided to explore not only crypto, as is usually done, but we've decided to take technology to the fullest. For this reason, we've also decided to integrate an off-the-pitch, er, on the world of football. The world of football is evolving at a speed, one of the fastest compared to all other industries and in particular in recent years it has come very close to the crypto, blockchain and AI sectors.

I'm Martina Casalini, and I'll be moderating this panel for the next 40 minutes. I am the co-founder of Luminax Finance and I bridge the gap between traditional finance and the crypto world. For this reason, I would ask my expert speakers and well-known figures from the football world to come here. So we have Riccardo Nasuti, strategic advisor to the Football Industry for over 25 years, Leonardo Giammaroli who is the international development director of SSC Napoli and Ivan Simione lawyer and founder of Lumina and sorry of Luma Sport Low Compliance which is part of the Simone law firm. Okay, [clears throat] so we did a quick introduction.

I'd say let's go a little more into detail about what the football world is doing, but just because, for example, I'm not very familiar with the world of sports, I know a thing or two about it, but I don't consider myself an expert at all, okay? Let's say that my profile is definitely more on the world of finance. So what is the football world doing? Currently, there are several projects from fun tokens to engagement tokens that seek to bring and increase engagement among both fans and the club, and also optimize, let's say, revenue streams because we have had a, um, a diversification of streaming revenue also through the world of AI and Web 3. I would start by asking each of you to give a short presentation about yourselves.

I'd be interested to know your background and your connection to the crypto world, which you obviously have through the football industry. So Richard, we can begin. Thank you. First of all, well, thank you for the invitation and I'm Riccardo Nasuti, I've been in the football industry for 25 years and I've worked in this industry from different perspectives with clubs first and foremost for over 20 years and with S Roma and Fiorentina. I was a digital manager, so I dealt with the entire digital ecosystem, so let's say my connection, well, with this world, let's say, is quite direct because I have always dealt with subjects related to the digital world.

Then I also had the opportunity to work for a football agency, specifically managing the personal branding of international footballers, from Serie A to the Premier League, etc., for the World Soccer Agency. Now I'm a strategic consultant for several different companies, in addition to a lobbying agency where I'm a sports partner. I'm also a consultant for Social Football Summit, which is the agency that organizes the most important football event in Italy. Italy and this year it will be held in Turin at the Alliance Stadium on November 10-11.

Is it fair for those who want to be invited and not? Yes, we will talk about many topics, obviously also about innovation. Certainly, the topics we are talking about today are also certainly central topics. And now I pass the ball to good Leonardo Giammarioli. Thanks Riccardo.

Leonardo Giammarioli, Napoli's director of international development for the past two years, has been involved in football for about fifteen years. I previously worked at Bayer Leverkusen in Germany. I spent about ten years in Germany between Sport Five and other agencies. I met Riccardo at Roma before leaving the country and then for 12 years, but not through Riccardo's fault obviously. That's better.

And here, let's say, I have a vision of football from the point of view of the clubs and in particular of Napoli. I am responsible for all the projects that help the club develop internationally. In today's context, perhaps the most important are technologies that aid fun engagement. Unlike Bayern Leverkusen, Napoli has a very global fan base, a very significant one, not just in Naples, not just in Italy, and so let's say the goal is to be able to connect with fans globally and give them added value and help grow the entire ecosystem, let's say, of the club through mainly digital resources. Um, I'll pass the floor to Ivan and the microphone too.

Tommaso, thank you. Um, so, I'm Ivan Simeone, I'm a criminal lawyer, I'm a criminal lawyer from Naples. Well, my areas of specialization are criminal law, sports criminal law, and sports compliance. Well, I work in the football industry. I entered the world of football by chance when I was called as a lawyer in the football betting trial, so I found myself working in that, let's say, in that context almost by chance and then over time since I have held and hold institutional roles both as observers on 231, I was in the national observatory on 231, so let's say I found myself holding roles also at an institutional level and in organized here in Naples the first conference on the applicability of organizational models to football clubs.

That year was the first year that the reference legislation was released, the official reference press release that obliged clubs to have the organizational model. A few years ago I opened a section of the law firm here in Naples dedicated solely to sports compliance, with a clear specialization in the football sector. Two years ago, I founded this innovative startup together with Lorenzo Ceppaluni, specifically for club compliance checks, and therefore for sports compliance. of clubs. Well, I'm currently also the sports commander and sports advisor for Sorrento Calcio.

OK perfect. I would say because we have three personalities in the same industry, but from three different sides. So, I'd like to start grilling you right away with a few questions about football and the crypto world. So, Leonardo, we know, earlier we mentioned fun tokens, engagement tokens, so a whole part that in recent years has also had a speculative component. Going beyond the speculative component, how does a Serie A club approach it today, like Napoli, with its Web 3 and digital assets in a structured way?

In other words, breaking down the various advantages and disadvantages that this world can bring to the football industry, how can a club approach it beyond the potentially feared, but obviously unproven, aspect of speculation? Fun tooken, like other tools, are more or less what I was saying before, that is, attempts to create a touch point of engagement with fans. In this case, the blockchain sector can also open up co-ownership scenarios. There has been a lot of talk lately about using the so-called coership tool by fans who, through the tokenization of some parts of the clubs, can feel like owners of the clubs. Clearly not in Italy, as I imagine you can attest, there are some fairly stringent regulations, but it is one of those ways that gives the fan the opportunity to be part of the club, which in reality is the real added value of a well-done engagement, in addition to this, which obviously is based on a concept of utilities and therefore in exchange for, let's say, the possession of fun tokens we provide engagement activities, therefore the opportunity to vote, to be involved in some of the club's decisions.

and therefore to have a participatory approach. Then there's the whole digital ecosystem thing that we've developed there too, with the help of blockchain, at least in the initial stages of creating a so-called membership, a space where fans can interact with the club. What we're trying to do is, on the one hand, to meet the fans and therefore create touch points, group them within a digital ecosystem that we are building, among other things, so we will launch it for the beginning of the centenary, where all the various areas in which fans interact with the club, therefore from ticketing to e-commerce, precisely the loyalty program, therefore the membership, to the payments made with the Napoli card, are all analyzed in some way . it gives fans back the opportunity to have, let's say, a gamification and therefore to interact with prizes that are not or at least not primarily physical, but rather the so-called Monic and Experience which therefore structure a reward path and therefore incentivize sharing and interaction. All this because we would like to have a clear understanding of who our fans are, especially those far away, those who aren't in Naples or Italy every day, those who can't all come to the stadium for every home game, and above all, we want to avoid monetizing the fan base, which is something we try to avoid.

The fan already pays for tickets and shirts, we just need to ask them for more money, but we try to monetize the fun engagement, that is, we create this space where the fan interacts, gives us a profile of their behavior and we then monetize this information, this database, this heritage with companies that at the same time want to offer opportunities to the fans and therefore the club acts as a conduit for opportunities, so to speak. This is the strategy we are trying to adopt using everything that technology makes available to us. Clearly a technology is extremely dynamic. Football clubs are much more dynamic organisations than other ones. We have very tight deadlines, we have a maximum of one season to implement solutions.

Our fans are clearly very on the ball, let's say, because a club has a much higher conversion range than anything else, because it's about the emotional aspect, so we obviously have to always be up to date and, um, obviously we have many tools to do so, that is, we are much more interesting for a fan who interacts with us, so we have to try to intercept what they are or anticipate what a fan's needs are, their expectations, understand what the market offers us from a technological point of view. This is why , let's say, events like this are fundamental for us to keep an eye on [clears throat] everything that's obviously happening in the technology market and, as our president always says, to be one step ahead of the others because we have to get there before everyone else to do innovative things. We are a club that always tries to go beyond a conservative approach and try new things. We consider ourselves an incubator for European football from this point of view. We have done many things in a very very unique way that are producing important results and we will continue to do this and the technological aspect is clearly clearly fundamental.

Okay . interesting because, um, you basically said that since Napoli is quite fragmented as a fan base, eh, crypto in this way, however, the token, let's say the web 3 part, could go to unify this fan base which is enough at least to bring it home, that is clearly the Napoli TV fan in New York who follows Napoli with the same passion as the Neapolitan who is here in Naples, but who maybe in some cases also speaks Italian well. because the second or third generation, but still has such a strong bond with the club and therefore with the city, naturally has different needs for interaction than the season ticket holder who obviously goes to the stadium every week or every two weeks, but it is part of the same heritage of this club and it absolutely must be taken into consideration and brought back, let's say, metaphorically, I repeat, home precisely in this centenary year. And I have no idea how other Italian clubs are currently moving. I know that there are some English clubs that have made partnerships with other partners such as Chilex who have been moving in this direction for a couple of years.

At an Italian level, which partners are we using at a technological level? If you know? We are working with a partner who is setting up an almost proprietary ecosystem for us, so we are trying to source different elements of this ecosystem, but with a single connector which is a company we are working with now in Rome, which is based in Rome, but which works with data platforms, CRM services and other things that are clearly international. Now, um, some names are known, others aren't, but basically they're all part of our project that we feel we own from an intellectual property standpoint. And another very interesting user case is the one we have with Chartex regarding, um, the token issue.

Can you quickly tell us what you do? How does this project work? Yes, okay, this is a project that is being born now, it's basically a technological platform first of all that is built to connect, let's say, a triangulation between non-profit organizations, the corporate part and all the part, let's say, of sports organizations at 360°. It could be a club, but it could also be any sport, athlete, or even sports brand, of course. and behind it there is a, let's say, a component, in short, it was born as a solid international reality, because behind it there is a London investment fund that has invested, so it is a joint stock company with 8 million in capital, let's say a startup, in short more Anglo-Saxon American in style, we don't say how and in short it is used perhaps here in Italy and and let's say that it is a technological platform.

I wanted to take a step back and say that we've seen a lot of them in the world of sport, Leonardo, even Ivan, in any case in recent years there have been many, well, technological solutions that have been proposed in the world of sport, but most of these technologies, in short, all had the common factor that the narrative was based precisely on the single technology, right? But right from the time of cell phones, then there was social media, then there were NFTs, tokens, the metaverse, now artificial intelligence, but let's say that the focus was always on the tool rather than on solving a problem. And instead, with this project we tried, and it is something that is very useful in my opinion for football clubs, to start by doing the opposite, by starting by solving a problem, the problem of what Leonardo was also partly talking about just now, right? In the clubs' problem is to involve the community more and more, no , because we often say that in football, generally speaking, we can talk about a paradigm shift. Now before there was an audience-based model, now there is a community-based model.

Leonardo talked a lot about this community and so on, but he's right because the audience used to just watch, but instead the community participates, and when the community participates, it means that enormous value is generated in terms of data. He was talking about CRM and so on, and so on, precisely in terms of, well, also of economic impact, because behind it there are all the worlds, including that of tokens and so on, and above all, also impact on a social level. Let's say that this Charitex platform that will be launched in our months, it's now in, it's started right now, its validation market is Italy, but obviously it's a project that will then affect everything, you know , the rest of the world. It allows clubs and all sports organizations to monetize in some way to take advantage of that emotional part that sport, especially football, is based on, right? the emotional part and that's what all sport is based on, and football even more so because, especially in Italy, it's basically the flagship in general, let's say, aside from recent sporting results .

Exact. No, I'm saying that aside , jokes aside, so this emotional part, the emotional value that comes from all the activations that clubs do, most of the time at the level of the various stakeholders, clubs, sponsors, fans themselves, is lost [clears throat] and instead this platform ensures that this emotional value is not invisible, but is somehow measurable, concrete and transparent because, precisely, it allows. Now in fact it's a discussion, a discussion that I will also open with the good Leonardo, the good with Tommaso Bianchini because it allows, in short, on the one hand to involve the fan and make him become a real stakeholder, therefore making him participate in the life of the club through social activations and in turn the club in this dynamic can involve its sponsors who in any case need to invest also in the side what is needed not only of reputation but also of branding. So this platform ensures, to put it very simply, then there are all the great technicalities that it ensures that, in short, even the part of this technological platform ensures that the social impact part of an activation of a challenge charity on which it is based has both a business asset for the club because through the brands and not obviously through the fans, who instead feel part of the project because they become real stakeholders too. So, let's say, it's a very complex project, but in my opinion it really addresses a problem that clubs currently face in terms of community contact, but also from an economic business perspective.

So in my opinion it's also a project that could be successful. When did this switch occur, let's say, between audience and community? I mean, when did it really become so important that we introduced new technology and thought about solutions, as you just proposed? But in my opinion, in recent years we—well, I worked in clubs for many years, I was a digital manager, but for many years, many years ago, I also think we made a mistake, we made a mistake, in the sense that we mistook engagement for with as if it were, that is, as if it were a relationship. Instead, engagement follows, likes thinks Exactly.

A like, a comment, a repost are basically metrics. Instead, the relationship with a community is what I did before, maybe I do a project, an action that involves the fan in a local project, maybe linked to the club, linked to the territory and in this case the fan instead feels part of it, it 's not a like, a comment or a note or a view of a video, it's something that makes it real, active, active. Exact. So this is the direction this project is going in. Exactly.

he's eh he's working and above all he's also at a business level, that is, an asset, in short, an economic one, for the club. Sorry to be interested. What Car says is not only right but also far from obvious, because talking about fan engagement seems banal. I was at the Super Return last Monday where all the investors in the world of sport were and without naming names they said "We spent a certain number of millions of euros buying a club that had 300 million fans and we thought we could activate them". Then after we saw that profiladi was 3%.

Because the club basically looks at the likes and thinks it has 300 million fans, but then it's not actionable, it's none of that actionable. So not only does it not create economic resources for the club, but it doesn't even create economic value for the club and simply becomes an unidentifiable asset, as Riccardo says. So not only is it important, but I repeat, it is far from a given that it exists. Go on. Well, you said something very interesting earlier, eh, about us wanting to monetize engagement, but we don't want to monetize the fan.

It's a very fine line, how do you avoid always profiting from the person you're focusing on, therefore the fan, the fan base, monetizing one without the other. Who wants to answer? No, I also look at what I was saying before, but not to do that will lead to that al muno, for example, with this type of idea, with this technological platform etc., on the challenges of the challenges of charity, in this case yes, economic value is created through sponsors who are interested in doing this type of action, perhaps one that has an impact on the territory, also on the social aspect and therefore then obviously now all the companies also have a need to activate, to decline, no, the investment in the club. And this is, in my opinion , a crazy assist because it makes you decline it with something concrete that has on the territory, which is a concrete value also on the social level, so eh therefore it is not the fan who comes and participates, but the economic part is rightly supported by the sponsors who, being part of the club's ecosystem in this case, can eh in my opinion decline in the best way [sing] a participation within the club.

Sorry Leo. No, no, absolutely not. I launched into that statement, but that's what he says, that is, we don't go and ask the fan for money, we go and ask the fan about his participation profile because he obviously does it with pleasure to say who he is, how he experiences the club, what his habits are, his behaviors. And it will then be the companies or investors who are linked to the clubs who will then go and invest in them based on this information and then not give aggressive advertising campaigns to the fan, but go and make proposals, offers or study GDPR compliant poivan. Everything that can be done within a club to create value from this community for the community itself, for the club itself, will help me, because ultimately these are economic resources that the club is obliged to reinvest in the community as [clears throat] such, that is, its fans.

So it's a virtuous economic circle that doesn't burden the fans, but to do that we need to create this ecosystem which, I repeat, is taken for granted, but not even big European clubs—I won't name names, at least not here with the microphone— I assure you they are far behind what one thinks or what they themselves say. Sorry, thanks. Ah, whoever wanted. Okay. Yes, it's a fairly delicate line, that is, there's definitely a need, but the line, even on a technological level, is something that will definitely take up a lot of your time in the near future.

Um Ivan, so let's talk more from a legal point of view, obviously since yours is your main topic. What exactly do clubs need today ? um to avoid being exposed to both regulatory and reputational risks, because in any case there is also the reputational aspect that weighs heavily on this sector. So, um, I can tell you that in my opinion, clubs are now moving from being sports organizations to organizations that manage an enormous amount of data, so clubs, let's say, are starting to approach methodologies to structure their own internal governance models, because um, in the short term, it will no longer be a matter of evaluating which artificial intelligence a club uses or which type of algorithm, but the real sustainable added value and the real added value for that club will be which club has the best governance to manage this. I mean, let me explain, it 's not so much about the technology itself, but how is it managed, how is it managed, and how is the governance and compliance of that club structured to manage certain data?

Because, let me give you a trivial example: the issue of player registrations. In the near future, the real issue will be that athlete, how much data have I acquired from that athlete, how much data do I have in the club that I need to structure a certain type of compliance, so digital will necessarily pass through an entity for this type of setup. So I need to find professionals who can support the club in managing this type of data. So the fact that they are starting to approach things no longer in a traditional compliance way, so let's forget about the banal update of the organizational model or the code of ethics or the code of conduct. Now, true club compliance means being able to bring together multiple professionals at the same table and work in a multidisciplinary and transversal manner with various skills to structure the internal compliance models to be used.

And this, in my opinion, will constitute an added value, also because with respect to MICAR, for example, which, let's say, is a regulation that I must say even today it is not clear what will happen. So, however, if we want to give a simple cross-reading between European legislation and our internal one, then we can say that perhaps today I can suggest a club to structure, for example, DAG procedures, therefore digital as governance on certain, for example, more enhanced due diligence on partners, because it is clear that the Club could incur liabilities, especially reputational ones, but also legal ones, because it could come into contact with these partners directly or even indirectly, therefore being able to structure, let's say, internal procedures based on that specific regulation. This obviously allows the CBO to protect itself, for example, by inserting certain compliance clauses with respect to cryptoassets and therefore verifying, for example, whether that partner has certain licenses, or whether that partner may request a sanctions history. I am, let's say, as I was telling you before, it is an evolution of the traditional compliance club, that is, today the real value for a club is to be able to, let's say, structure internal models reserved for the club, okay? A team that goes to check internally, therefore becomes internal compliance, but then who is the one who checks externally?

which is not that it is not the, let's say, traditional figure of the Compliance Sport Officer, but it is one of the interdisciplinary committees that then go to validate procedures before [clearing throat] releasing them and it is clear that the criminal lawyer is no longer enough, it is no longer enough, let's say, the consultant who perhaps is expert in a certain subject, but the real value achieved is being able to work in a team because we create ad hoc procedures. Now we're talking about, let's say, the issue of digital assets, but in terms of, let's say, complan we can obviously do a 360° reasoning. So, let's say, the evolution of compensation. When we first put together this project, which we then implemented on this platform, it was the first innovative project that combined artificial intelligence with the sports compliance of clubs, and why it was, let's say, considered a valid project, because it reduced consultancy times. It also reduces the time and costs for a club to have more consultants than, let's say, they necessarily had to contact, and above all, the decision is automated.

So the club will go to a consultant in the near future to decide and automate some decisions, so it will no longer have, let's say, the usual email to the external consultant, but it will already have decisions structured by the external consultant within the club and therefore it will have to deal with this invisible entity that is artificial intelligence. And then there comes the data problem, in the sense that yes, on the one hand, it's more convenient if I also outsource the artificial intelligence or in any case go into partnerships with other entities, but I still have to share sensitive data with them in the case of a football club. I imagine that having access to data in a timeframe, let's say, different from that which the main general managers have planned is a bit of a problem also for the whole speculative part of football. I was talking about it before with Leonardo, well, in football, in football time is not more than tight, so everyone who works in the world of football has time limits that, apart from being constantly under pressure and being completely absorbed by this world which, although beautiful, requires a great predisposition to this type of pressure, but they have very tight time limits, so for example when we were talking about it before, I have to submit by a deadline, a deadline, the documentation I need for the issue of the national license to participate in the championship, let's say, of the following season and I make a mistake or I don't respect a certain deadline. There it becomes a problem, it becomes a huge problem on an economic level, on a reputational level, on a management level, so automating some checks obviously helps the club solve many problems.

That is, do you want to add anything on a legal level? Yes, no, I just wanted to add something to what Ivan said, who is absolutely right, that is, a football club, as beautiful as it is, has a significant amount of pressure, it has a complexity of day-to-day management that few other sectors have, because managing a club, especially compliance with increasingly, let's say, stringent regulations on various fronts and obviously everything a football club does has enormous exposure and a sounding board, hence the reputational damage. That is, you have to be much more dutiful even than FMCG companies or other companies with very tight deadlines, because filing a sports contract or a sponsorship contract before the start of a season or being, let's say, compliant or all the regulatory requirements in various areas, obviously requires a huge effort and then we don't hide it, football clubs, even in terms of human resources, don't have the numbers of a corporation, so automation and the help of technology become, in my opinion, increasingly essential, eh, obviously it must be refined, that is, it must be 100% reliable. and I believe that this is also a path we still have to travel together. Hey, who knows?

No, in fact, not to assist the good lawyer Simeone, but precisely the the lawyer together with, well, other competent people has set up this tool, no, which deals precisely with the intermediation with the help of artificial fishing and to address precisely these compliance problems that clubs may have, so a tool, in short, which is now already validated in some ways, but it precisely addresses, but regardless of any type of sponsorship, but it addresses precisely this process, all these trends that we are talking about today. So, as Leo was saying, the world of football is often a particular world, always under pressure, in which these tools are, well, manna from heaven, except that we were talking about outside before, so football is a bit, let's say, still a bit of a mentality, right? The cultural problem needs to be smoothed out a bit because tools like this already exist in some way, they are in our hands, it's just that we need to try to convince the various top management and presidencies to start using them because if we want to keep up, well, with the times on the one hand if we also want to keep up with the Italian football movement with all the other global realities, we need to take various actions, reforms, etc., but also from the point of view of innovation we certainly have many aces to play, some of which are already ready. Thanks, you guys helped me with the last question.

So, [clears throat] top or flop, in the sense of everything we have on the market, what will be essential? what a football club will have in the near future, so 2 3 5 years maximum, and what is just hype, so it's something that is going now, but in reality has no future. But then the help of artificial intelligence in various verticals will certainly be fundamental, it will be almost natural, it will happen without us even realizing it. In my opinion, the only risk is not addressing the topic as a generic buzzword, then everyone says let's get an AI expert to do what? Well, we'll take it and then we'll see.

Look, there needs to be an implementation plan. Exact. And then there are those who make the market using artificial intelligence. Well, for example, in Germany they were relegated for the first time in 26 years, so football is still an area where the human aspect is clearly needed, and I'm talking about this not only in the sporting aspect, but also in the business management aspect. What is more of a risk than a flop is that all these technologies that follow one another will then become boomerangs or will not be addressed with the clarity and depth needed precisely because of a question of timing, as he was talking about, and so perhaps there is a moment of a particular trend where perhaps there are also significant investments behind it where everyone jumps in only to then see that, in short, it was more shortsighted than what was thought.

So, more than anything I'm talking about the risks of not being able to have an accurate analysis of sometimes complicated tools and then be able to make the right choices by combining them with the operational complexity of a club we were talking about earlier. Go Ivan. No, okay, just to tie in with what Leo says, absolutely, and also with what I said before, in my opinion , precisely, the new cycle of innovation in football, because I want to tie in with what we also said before, is linked to, well, not so much to digital speculation, but as I was saying before, to digital trust, because now, eh, seeing that there has been this paradigm shift, right? there is always a need to talk more and more, even on the part of the clubs to the various communities. In my opinion, let's say, those projects that go in this direction will work, also because, in fact, football is not based on efficiency in some ways, but above all on emotions, so artificial intelligence, all the new technologies, the ones that will be successful will be those that will really succeed in ensuring that all the stakeholders involved in the sports ecosystem, so obviously not just the community, but also the clubs, sponsors, institutions, the territory, etc.

can, in short, be involved in a constructive and positive way and precisely with the aim, precisely, of being able to bring added value that is concrete. This opinion is common in the crypto world . Ivan, I Martina mentioned it before, um in my opinion in the near future the clubs will have internal structures um those that are already moving with internal procedures of let's say governance with respect to compliance, therefore automated models. Freelance work, let's say traditional, for those who want to work in certain sectors, obviously, in my opinion, is something absolutely positive. Professionals are structured with certain specializations, obviously, so the figure of the lawyer who perhaps has a certain type of specialization to support the club, this could be an added value, let's say, and therefore spaces could also be opened up for young people who are approaching, let's say, this profession.

So, freeing them for a moment from the traditional concept of the figure of the lawyer or accountant, but trying to help them in their, let's say, specialized training. Riccardo knows this because I involved him as a teacher in this master's program that will start soon in Milan where we will train the roles of sports officers in the football sector, so starting from some sector-specific modules we will then analyze risk management and how to manage it with Il Sole 24 Ore. Excuse me, where will you do this mas? At Il Sole 24 Ore in Milan. Well, so this is an opportunity, in my opinion, for young people, for those who are approaching, let's say, this type of work.

Um, let's ask the other question, I say that artificial intelligence will never be able to, I mean, it's a trivial thing, right? But I still support it. For me, artificial intelligence will never be able to, let 's say replace a professional figure, any type of professional figure, because if you manage it and use it in the right way, it certainly helps you in personal and professional growth, but it will never be able to replace the human contribution in any type of work. So, let's say, I'm talking about it in general that selling emotions is difficult a rhythm of aspects. Okay guys, I wanted to know if there were any questions from the audience, if not OK, I'll be there in a moment.

Oh yes, but this way I'll record it. Thank you. From the point of view of using A for the legal and compliance part, I imagine it is a database that then allows for faster analyses , to have answers on decisions that may have already been made or on paths that have already been followed in the past. As far as you know, does this type of approach already exist in other areas, not just in the sports sector but also in the legal sector in general, or is it a completely new approach? And if so, in your opinion, in which cases can one apply to get answers independently as a guide and in which cases is it absolutely necessary to have a professional to supervise the response or consultancy, in this case for a club, rather than for a company.

Thank you. Well, yes, they are also starting to structure, let's say, verification platforms even for, let's say, companies that are not involved in football, which therefore do not concern the football sector. Well, two years ago, when we started, this was actually the first innovative project on this vertical. And at the time, from a survey, there was no, let's say, any type of startup or group of professionals that, let's say, dedicated themselves to this. It's clear that this type of approach we 've developed can be replicated not only in other segments—I was talking about this earlier with Leonardo— so not only, for example, applied to the issue of balance sheets or finance within the club or to anti-money laundering procedures according to the AML package that will come into force in 2029, but in any other type of, let's say, sector, and it inevitably requires two fundamental components.

One part is a legal team with expertise and specialization in organizational models and sports or corporate compliance, and the other is a technological team. Um, if I hadn't had Lorenzo developing the technical part for me , my idea would have remained, let's say, something absolutely abstract. So the two components are fundamental. um and decisions and automating a decision will certainly be the future not only in football clubs, but also in [clears throat] in companies and above all trying to create a figure who deals with this who can also support the control bodies within the companies or within the clubs or the supervisory or guarantee bodies within the clubs. So having the real added value and trying to exploit the type of consultancy support that can be offered to that company or that club to give added value to the organization.

Thank you very much Ivan. Guys, you can find our speakers outside if you have any further questions. We need to move forward with Control Shift, so please give our speakers a round of applause. Thanks a lot guys.