Funding the Future: Exploring the UAE's SME Ecosystem & Access to Finance

[Music] I hope everyone's having a wonderful first day of Abu Dhabi Finance week I am joined on stage by my wonderful panelist starting from the far left we have de from Rock Bank we have Her Excellency mosa from the Khalifa fund we have basma from hub71 and Gina to my right from MasterCard and we will be uh having a lovely discussion on funding the future exploring the UA's ecosystem and access to finance um I'll start off with Her Excellency mosa uh your excellencies how do smmes contribute to the UA's economy thank you very much I'm really glad to be here with you today so basically are the backbone of the UA economy they represent around 94% of the total businesses in the way so from hearing this you notice the huge contribution that smmes are playing in Abu Dhabi and the U as the U is transitioning into a knowledge-based economy we know that smmes they drive Innovation so they contribute to the economic growth of thee which is really important to all of uses as well they play huge role in employing in the so they employ more than 85% of the whole Workforce of the way which is really impressive soes are driving Innovation and sustainability they drive the new solutions to the communities they drive sustainability and they solve lots of issues related to the environment we believe that smmes are really playing a crucial role for the's ecosystem in in in thee in summary we can say that funding smmes is really important because they are fostering Innovation they are creating jobs promoting economic growth and enhancing the social and environment ecosystem in Thee thank you your Excellency since we're talking about funding let's bring the banks into the conversation here D my next question is to you how would you describe the current state of the UA's ecosystem and what unique opportunities exist currently for Innovation and growth for smmes thank you thank you Mira I think let's admit uh that SM financing has been a global problem for some time and it is not very unique to this part of the world as well however what we have seen in the UA because of lot of government uh investor friendly policies development financing co- guarantee schemes credit guarantee schemes the things are getting better but if we see the landscape today small business even today are invariably funded by friends and family and sometimes father-in-law money but at the end of the day the market of venture capitalist and the private credit Market is taking shape now now right otherwise uh 95% of the funding to the sector comes from the banks at this point which will get much different when the open finance kicks in and the financial data gets democratized you'll have lot many fintex peer-to-peer lenders joining this party uh Gina I would pose the same question to you from mastercard's perspective how do you view uh UA's ecosystem and sort of the opportunities for Innovation and growth here I mean I would say what a time to be anme to be honest um I have been a Founder myself and I've been on the Journey of being anme and um living and working in in the UAE for the last 18 years I've seen a real change right now we have half a million smmes that number will grow to A Million by 2030 um as JJ was saying you know so many initiatives uh championed by the government government to really support the growth of uh and success of EP smmes in this market so I think you know the future looks bright if I Look At You Know the Way MasterCard as an organization is is configured is that we have an entire business vertical which is globally LED which anchors around smmes because of the significance of of this um this segment of of you know kind of the population at the end of the day you know 65% of non-oil GDP in the UAE comes Fromm so um you know we cannot ignore that and we must we must support that as enablers such as you know MasterCard um but we're very fortunate I think to have that government support um and focus on on championing smmes now and into the future absolutely I mean basma Hub 71 is not just a local name but a global name you know uh what what sort of how do you view the UA's ecosystem and sort of the opportunities for Innovation and growth so the UAE you can see that has invested a lot in the infrastructure within technology and digital transformation uh within AI blockchain that enables thees to off in certain offerings to enable them to scale and grow uh in addition um something that the chairman his Excellency uh Ahmed is zabi has mentioned this morning that abudhabi is where Innovation is happening you would see it with the different uh uh corporate partners that are uh within the ecosystem whether it's a g42 MasterCard irq Bank Khalifa fund are all part of the ecosystem that are enabling the smmes to scale and flourish perfect uh speaking of enabling your Excellency why is it important to ensure smmes and entrepreneurs have access to funding well uh in Abu Dhabi we witnessed a strategic shift this year where the non oil GDP reached 55.2% which is impressive in a decade it never happened so we believe that excellent Finance especially in manufacturing and construction and finance as well because they contribute heavily to the ecosystem we believe that a key pillar in our mission is to empower smmes because they are the real agent when it come to supporting the whole ecosystem and promoting small and medium Enterprises will affect all of the other sectors thees are agile and they are empowered in in Abu Dhabi and they are supporting uh the resilience of the markets supporting the whole economy in all times because of their flexibilities so we believe that these businesses are really in bringing Innovation and resilience to the whole ecosystem this is why it's important to support and fund smmes um Gina my next question would be to you I mean Her Excellency has mentioned how smmes are a backbone to the economy at to this day still face um issues with accessing funding within the region right so what is Mastercard doing specifically to help smmes access that that funding and get over that pain Point well for start we work with great Partners some of whom are uh are are on uh on today's stage um but I think you know there's been a trend really for smmes whereby many of them were self-funded to der's point um or we're using you know kind of personal facilities to fund and you know allow their businesses to to pay and get paid but now more than ever there are solutions you know that we are championing with you know from a technology standpoint with bank partners and that Focus you know has allowed us to create customized solutions that help smmes focus on building their businesses so you know that can come through you know Technology Solutions um allowing uh customers also to Showcase their ability to repay so now our some of our AI Solutions are becoming much more sophisticated to help you know allow banks have the comfort to lend to smes whether it be leveraging the data from their post terminals or leveraging um their behavior across other plan other platforms and channels so we are I think rallying together as a community to make sure that you know businesses get access to funding and become part of the digital economy it was our aspiration in 2020 that we would bring bring 50 million msmes into the digital economy by 2025 um I'm pleased to say that we have already done that so by bringing them into the digital economy we allow them to you know kind of showcase the strength of their business and then also then you know allow them to secure incremental funding what is great about that fact as well too is that half of those are female entrepreneur female run businesses um so I think for us it's it's really about doubling down on inclusion um and ensuring that you know we are bringing more and more of these smmes into a scenario where they can truly digitize their finances and get access to you kind of lending and funding so that they can focus on you know kind of running their businesses and and doing what they set out to achieve initially um D I'm going to pass the Baton off to you so my next question would be um you know how have you seen sort of the banking infrastructure improve or change over the past decade to be more supportive towards access for funding for smmes in the UAE uh I'll give a bit longish answer to that because it's a complex issue right the first I wanted to congratulate the panel look at the diversity and inclus on the stage right this is the real UA for you we have very competent uh women leaders and that's what we see in landscape as well right we Bank almost 14,000 female entrepreneurs but if you have to slice and dice the the complex problem statement ofme funding you have to you have to cut this in in the three stages one is the startup and early stage which is traditionally is not the banks Play Because banks are Lending the depositors money you will not like if we don't pay back your money saying that we are investing somewhere else but for growth St companies and for companies which has sustainable cash flow we alone has $3 billion exposure on Market so there's no dirth of funding for for anyme which has a sustainable cash flow but collectively uh like uh Her Excellency said we have been working with Khalifa fund right from like seven eight years where the startups had a different problem and we had a guarantee back then from government to lend them that still is the progress with mbrf Khalifa fund you have uh Emir Development Bank so that instrument is taking shape but to one point that uh G mentioned on on the on the payment Universe right now you have far visible cash flows o to your Merchant receivables owing to your corporate card EXP expenses going to your closed loop payment so there are far Innovative schemes to land where banks are also comfortable in the credit risk and customers are also very comfortable because the digital experience of getting quick money is amazing last but not least the the kind of role for example hub71 is playing it's never only about access to funding or lack of it it's also about helping them to get their first paying customer helping them with content helping them with tax advisory sometimes we oversimplify the problem and put enough emphasis on funding that's not a that's not unreal problem to solve it's a real problem but a business does not only succeed just because they are funded or not and I'm sure there lot of lot of you from startup and Venture community and you will you will resonate with the fact that sometimes more F more funding is bigger problem than less funding um since the just already mentioned hub71 basma my next question is to you I mean Hub 71 has been an ecosystem for startups in the region right what what is your bird's eye view of you know smmes and and their their efforts and what are sort of the most effective strategies they can employ to brid that cab with funding so as anyme they're always like The crucial aspect of uh access to funding is always a main factor uh so with our network of over 50 VCS uh from and family offices and Angel Investors to support the in access to Capital across the different stages as they scale and grow uh in addition as through our programmed and tailored programs that we offer at top 71 we do try to support them through our uh cash incentives and uh ink kind incentives that we offer and cash as a safe note for the startups uh to enable them to soft land to take that burden on of the headache of setting up and let them focus on innovating and scaling uh and growing uh in addition to that we provide them uh face-to-face uh interactions uh with the VCS whether through our fundraising Road show that will be happening tomorrow and after tomorrow uh for example we also have our VC meets where we do that one-on-one interactions and customize those connections accordingly that enables our startups to uh track that uh friction in in in enabling them to meet those right investors uh in the right in the fastest ways possible perfect your Excellency on the topic of access to funding how does Khalifa fund address this in the UAE well um I will give you some achievements of what KH fund did so far so uh as you are aware KH fund is there since 2007 and since that time we engage with more than 40,000 entrepreneur so 40,000 is is not a small number where we are not only registering them we give them mentoring we give them counseling we also provide them with lots of training programs we entertain them through more than 1,000 awareness and uh events we also help to uh customize some funding and non-f funding uh programs where we believe that funding and non-f funding goes together because you need to support while you are providing the funding so we managed to upskill more than 36,000 entrepreneur upskilling in many of the programs they would like to to have throughout their Journey since establishing their businesses until they grow and we managed through Khalifa fund to support 1,170 company with a loan and those loans are around 1.3 billion Dirhams and through their great work they managed to make more than 8 billion Dirhams out of those 1.3 uh billion so we believe that this is a success of those companies on on their Journey we also managed to employ around 15,000 employee Within those companies which is also another remarkable uh number uh through Khalifa fund also we we help those smmes to engage in procurement activities where we believe that procurement access to markets is is having a huge impact on on anyme because they give them the opportunity to grow uh also we are supporting them in many export activities we manag also to turn more than 20 Enterprise into a franchise business which is which is great we managed to graduate many successful entrepreneurs into the ecosystem through our funding and non-f funding programs thank you your Excellency uh speaking of success of business and to your point earlier D I think one of the issues that smmes face with access to funding is they're considered high risk to begin with so how does Rock Bank deal with that kind of risk and are there any Innovative approaches that you know you employ to deal with those risks so uh it I think it's not particular to SME any any new venture or any new uh idea will take time to develop and and because it it it promises High return it also promises high risk now banks are in a very regulated and stable business and banks are not in the business of of equity so Bank essentially is a debt partner and debt comes from sustainability of the cash flow right so a lot of times because we are we are the the largest Small Business Bank we have 15,000 customer who are borrowing and then you have another 880,000 which are non borrowing so when we deal with that we are one of the unique Banks who also fund uh a business which is only a year old as long as it is Cash positive but what we see uh that if you work with any small business and and you you make them realize that sometimes it's not only about customer it's about paying customer so you can you can get thousand of customers what is the point if they don't pay back secondly any business whether it's startup or smes they have uh and rightly so they have obsession with revenue and Top Line not the margin of the business sometimes they don't even know whether the business they are doing are profitable because they don't have a very structured book of accounts sometime the regulatory changes like vat and tax make them think in that direction and while it looks like a pain in short term it is very gainful process to have a better disclosure and better governance so for us our role is not only to be to be a funding institution our role is also to advise that how important is compliance for a business how important is governance for the business typically any businesses including the large ones they will always feel the compliance as a cost and not as a investment and I think that's the key agreed um Gina uh From mastercard's perspective how do you sort of collaborate with various stakeholders so you know Banks government funds Partners like Hub 71 to sort of bridge gaps in financial inclusion for in the region yeah I mean at the end of the day as MasterCard we really sit at the center of the ecosystem pulling in and working with a number of Partners across the board sometimes all at once so whether it be you know kind of large Banks where we may you know for example recently we launched a co-brand partnership with DP World um and a large Bank in in the UAE uh with a specific purpose of enabling you know kind of trade um trade transactions um that you know for the bank creates an opportunity to leverage their you know kind of history and and um transactions that they're processing through DP world to you know be able to assess their their credit worthiness Etc so for us we see ourselves as a I guess an enabler and a connector of of the various um players within the ecosystem um we also you know in certain instances right now have a partnership with uh the ministry of AI where we're investing in a competition to poten identify you know key AI related startups across the region um with a view to to fund those that are the selected winners so it can be a mix of um you know building you know kind of uh co-branded cvps with our partners or working very closely with individual Banks like rbank who sits on this panel as well too who we work on um creating individual uh cvps which um enable businesses and that have relevant benefits so whether that be through invoicing Solutions or uh even through an overlay of our education platform I think the panelists have all mentioned that it's not just about funding it's also about education um that we have a solution called uh the entrepreneurs Odyssey which all of our you know kind ofme Partners uh and their customers can get access to which essentially sometimes Founders are experts in the thing that they've you know founded so um you know they might be you know a great baker or they might be you know a great product strategist but you know they may not necessarily be a strong CFO so through this platform we enable uh customers to get access to the knowledge and capability um using some of the best global resources that we we as MasterCard have access to and we pass that then through to to our end customers and their customers um so for us of course you know we work with with governments as well too and and you know kind of key entities like Khalifa fund or hub71 um and try to plug ourselves in into those programs to help whether it be a knowledge partner uh or whether that be also an investing partner through programs like start paath which is our Global platform which um which uh identifies and enables and incubates uh startup businesses um a lot of fchs even in this region have have come through that process um so yeah so I think we're very fortunate in that I think our business has expanded we're no longer just a card provider we're a technology provider so if you have a business then we can work with you whether it be directly or or through Partners uh to be able to you know kind of grow grow your business accordingly um and then we look at you know from a more of an in you know Financial inclusion standpoint we look at initiatives that we have introduced across the grow Globe whether that be our uh strive program in in Pakistan um or our farm pass commun Community Pass Program which we introduced in Africa and in that scenario we look at uh again digitizing um flows which were not necessarily digital digitized in the past which allows let's say a farmer in Africa to be able to create a Marketplace to be able to get access to services and and potentially lend against their um you know their crops and what have you so it really is you know we try to use our technology capabilities as a way to drive and empower the ecosystem leveraging our partners along the way um Bas G's point about empowering the ecosystem right hub 71 sort of offers PE uh startups access to what you know all of our other panelists have mentioned which is not just access to funding but education support access to invest s across the board how do you sort of help smmes uh overcome not just Financial but operational difficulties and what can other sort of startup ecosystems across the world learn from hub71 um so as Hub 71 I think one of our unique value proposition that we offer to all startups is the value creation that we offer to the startups whether it is access to Market through our partners of Market uh MasterCard so MasterCard has signed with multi-d dollar value uh contracts with several of our part our startups uh and there's many that goes on with that uh so we had over the past since Inception over since 2022 uh our startups have managed to close 180 contract deals uh worth of more than 750 million Dirhams that showcases uh our corporate Partners in trusting and believing in our startups uh in addition to that access to Talent so we have a unique uh let's say Academia partners that we have right here whether it's Muhammad bin Z University of AI that enables our startups to scale and grow their uh their uh their team with the right Talent uh that's all coming from the UAE uh and fostering that Innovation and and that growth in addition to the access to uh Regulators so you have a very Progressive Regulators uh whether it's DGM whether it's the do in terms of enabling the health health Tech sector or the fintech sector um to Foster that growth and accessing that opportunity and that growth to help them uh scale locally and globally from the uh from Abu Dhabi uh Gina speaking of Technology sort of how is Mastercard leveraging its Global expertise sorry to equip smmes with the with the knowledge and skills they need to meet with the ch changing you know say RIS in technology or the changing Tech landscape yeah so I touched on it briefly in my last response where we um we have you know have a platform called the entrepreneurs Odyssey which is an online tool which all of our um our customers and their customers can leverage to be educated on you know how to successfully run a business but of course as a technology provider ourselves um we are constantly bringing we acquire a lot of businesses globally whether that be in you know fraud or um more recently in Ai and in open banking so we try to bring the best of our capabilities uh to our whether it be our banking Partners our fintech partners our Merchants Etc um and more and more that has become smmes so what we I think really value is that the it's the smmes who are coming to us and challenging the status quo so what they're doing is forcing us then to take the technologies that we're buying and augment them to meet the changing needs of of of the ecosystem so for us I think that is the most exciting dynamic because they're forcing us to think differently and also it you know it shapes some of our investment strategy moving forward as well too so a lot of the Innovations you know coming coming out whether it be in terms of pay it table in the F FNB industry uh or whether it be in terms of activating new flows what is I think you know really exciting about uh the uh the kind of founder SE segment these days is that there's a big Focus let's say on you know capturing flows or capturing corporate flows and really creating a niche and doubling down on that and becoming an expert um so then we obvious obviously then bring our capabilities when it comes to Global expertise when it comes to Global Knowledge as well because generally if you know something is is being thought of it's you know there's a version of it happening somewhere in a in a global market so we you know also create that interconnectivity from a global standpoint uh to bring that knowledge and know how um you know if someone's doing something great in Australia or Brazil you know we really then you know kind of pull together those examples and and and you know help uh Foster a smarter and more informed ecosystem as well um your Excellency uh speaking of fostering ecosystem uh what sort of achievements highlight Khalifa the funds Legacy in supporting smmes in the region well um we believe that the achievement came out of the eager of supporting smmes so we believe that seses are uh basically the Cornerstone of our economy and um we are developing lots of uh funding programs to supportes in accessing to to to funding we believe that there is a challenge globally on access to funding fores and we at Khalifa fund we developed uh many programs where we are giving them uh almost interest free uh loans we are also catering for a very good um period of repayment and grace period uh of the funding we also supporting them with um uh lots of upskilling programs within their Journey uh we believe that encouraging the financial aggregators and the financial institutes like Rak bank and ADCB and many other uh Partners who are working with us closely in this journey uh to to support and find new innovative solutions for very important um we catered uh many many solutions fores I will talk about our recent project where we launched last week which is the uh the vision of of this leadership we we announced the mizen Hub mizen is the we call it in Arabic it's the Rainy Cloud clouds so mizen Hub has three main projects the first project is M Venture Studios where we'll support softland uh tech transfere office and uh encourage smmes to thrive in the ecosystem the other project is the m light manufacturing units where we will support industrial and Manufacturing businesses to to success the third one is more relevant to this forum which is M Venture Capital where we will start uh the investment arm of Khalifa fund to support equity in those uh financing and those smmes so we believe that having this time of of cultivating all the effort to support smmes is very important between us and all of our partners in the ecosystem thank you your Excellency speaking speak of all Partners um the from your perspective how can sort of you know financial institutions uh government bodies and various ecosystem Partners work together to make access to funding and and in general life easier for smmes in the UA moving forward generally uh I think last five or six years there has been uh government affirmative action at multiple stages I'm sure uh as your Excellency alluded you also have a procurement quota now for smmes like 20% of our federal budget for every procurement has to go to the smes that's a brilliant step the second is is the is the collaboration with Academia incubation and financial institution like ourself like for example we collaborate with American University of Shara along with the uh Barack incubation Center because you have to you have to create the entrepreneurs for tomorrow and that comes from student community that comes from incubation Center but what smes and startup they need to do themselves is they need to calibrate their their business as the changing need of the consumer we have lot of customer we used to retail in in Naf daa or in Musafa Abu Dhabi now those businesses are on are on Amazon are on noon the the ones who migrated them to the to the new Superstores is somebody who's thriving so sometimes whether it's technology whether is support but the first step of support has to come from the promoter themsel from the founder themsel and then you can have this ecosystem helping them to get to the next level and the way I see it UA is already one of the most investor friendly countries where where else in the world you get trade license in half an hour where else now you at least get an account set up in four five days it used to take months before in in different geographies I think we are here to uh to see lot of good and welcoming progress fores and I'm sure we all from the community participants will make things easier for smmes absolutely basma from Hub 71s perspective what kind of collaborative efforts can make SM life easier moving forward um I'll give an example of what uh certain initiatives at top 71 has established to cultivate that collaboration and what has resulted out of it so last year we launched a specialized ecosystem around digital asset and climate Tech where we brought in The Regulators the corporate Partners the VCS uh technology Partners all together working in Spec in a specific vertical to activate that specific sector when enabling that you see uh the ease of access whether it is a dollar value uh commitment to invest into those startups or a market access uh corporate partner that is willing to Pilot or sign a contract deal with that startup when that happens you see them scaling and growing uh not only in Abu Dhabi not only in the UAE but also globally uh with the different um economic relations that we have globally eases that Journey for those startups to scale out of Abu Dhabi and uh FL and and GL and build a global name and uh one of those examples was earlier on uh today with bit toi one of our digital asset startups who's in on his way for becoming the next unicorn hopefully out of ababi perfect Gina from mastercard's perspective what kind of collaborative efforts can sort of make life easier for smmes moving forward yeah I think the key is for uh smes is that we need to have very focused discussions around collaboration so you know looking at I guess tradition more traditional and conventional consumer banking there's you know a lot of focus on you know regulatory intervention um and and what is I think required for smmes whether it be on the issuing side or the acquiring side uh is very different to you know what we have you know what we think about when we think of more I guess traditional banking from the consumer side and I think historically that's often kind of been lumped in together but you know now I think the nuance and the um definitive unique needs of smmes need to be addressed when it comes to I guess the payments land landscape specifically um and you know smmes need that support you know what they they have different requirements to let's say large Market corporate relationships um and I think previously they sort of fell between the cracks and whether that being in the context of the regulator or in the context of even Banks Banks were maybe thinking of them as either you know an add-on to the retail business or a part of the corporate business and that sort of thing and and what I'm really excited about now is that every bank that I speak to has a dedicated and defined strategy and I think that's real progress um you know I think D is a limiting example of that I think look rack Bank was kind of ahead of the curve when when they got out in front on the uh uh landscape uh I think now it's you know kind of a hotly contested space so um you know I think now also with the focus of you know kind of digitization and ensuring that those Journeys um you know can be you know as quick as a couple of days whereas previously they they were pretty lengthy so you you know continuing to to Rally together as an industry and focusing on the unique needs of of the specifically is what will help continue to propel um you know kind of the industry forward uh talking about propelling the industry forward the um given how Dynamic the the landscape the business landscape is fores in the UAE what sort of Trends do you see coming forward in the next 5 to 10 years and how Cannes sort of position themselves to capitalize on those opportunities from from a banking perspective you know couple of Trends I I remember because uh some of you may remember we also had first SM uh confidence index issued earli this year and and there were quite a few discernable Trend the one for sure was the dominance of service economy long uh UA was considered largely a trading construction and oil economy but the service side of the business really caught up now we have more services companies uh Banking and applying to bank with us than the traditional manufacturing trading oil construction the second one is is there a lot of Reliance on domestic trade so previously out of $100 if you import $70 from overseas and and Export back $70 outside the UAE now 50% of the trade is happening within the UAE because of the size of UA and non oil GDP is growing that there's always a product supplier available right the third is is the embracing new technology I mean which country you will see this level of mobile penetration this level of 5G speed that today data and the bandwidth is the raw material of business and today yua is considered one of the most investment friendly nation is because of the digital infrastructure UA has created so I think we are we will be seeing continued trend on these lines thank you so much DJ um basma any final thoughts from from your perspective what can smmes do what kind of Trends can they watch out for and position themselves to capitalize on set opportunities in the next 5 to 10 years uh I want to talk to the SM community in terms of that the stakeholders are listening so they're listening to the pain points so the ease of bank account uh I think has been an issue for a long time I think that has been resolved or is trying to be resolved uh as soon as possible or enhancing that uh the access and the ease of uh the different um uh access to Capital or The Regulators are even being open to that allowing that Dynamic uh adoption of in Innovation into that uh into their policies um in addition uh Sheik Muhammad during his visit to the states he mentioned two things he mentioned something about Ai and not to forget our Roots so AI I is the future and AI has to be embedded in everything and everything that we do and I think as Abu Dhabi and as the UAE it is in the Forefront of being the uh one of the leaders within Ai and I think capture that capture that opportunity and having the main stakeholders in uh in the UAE and having two llms coming out of the UAE is an big achievement leverage that and take advantage of that thank you thank you so much basma um Gina any final thoughts final words from your perspective um I would just say looking ahead I think there's a few probably key themes and I think you know we've already touched on sort of digitization and AI I think diversification is key so if you are you kind of heading into the and and founding uh Arena you need to look at you know following the trends of the diversification of the economy that is is happening so that's where the opportunities are follow the investment and um you know that will you know help shape what are you know some of the innovation opportunities that present themselves and I think we can't forget sustainability as well so if we look at you know the next 5 to 10 years um I think smes are often you know so busy just trying to stay afloat at times it's not necessarily on this you know on their agenda to the same extent that it is for large corporates but I think you know there'll be more pressure particularly as there's more government governance when it comes to um you know corporate tax Etc coming in there'll be I think more of a focus on on sustainability and ensuring that you get out in front of that as well thank you so much Gina that is all we have time for thank you so much your Excellency de basma Gina thank you so much for joining thank you to our audience I hope you enjoyed our discussion a big round of applause for my wonderful panelists thank you so [Music]