It's interesting to have a conversation that we normally have, but just in front of a lot of people watching people watching , and it's being recorded. So, this should be fun. No pressure. No pressure. Hmm, there are a lot of things I want to discuss, and we generally want to talk about the next era of ENS, and my first question to you is just to jump right into what we know the future is going to be.
Hmm, V2. ENS has existed since 2017. It's been a long time. We've seen so many great things with people implementing ENS.eth, it's becoming a very common thing, especially on Twitter.
And I wonder what brought the focus to V2 and what's new in V2? Yes. So, I think one of the most amazing things about ENS is that it still exists today. And if you think about it, when ENS first launched in 2017, it was before the NFT era. This was before so many things were adopted, invented, used since then .
And therefore, a protocol protocol whose smart contracts were written in 2017. Completely different worlds of simple thinking about smart contracts. That's right. And so when we thought, let's look at how the world has changed, the world of cryptocurrencies, and all the new standards that have been invented since then. Altcoins are there now , you know, as is the world of multichains.
There was no DeFi. There was no account abstraction. Stablecoins didn't really exist in 2017. I think it was still in the center. Uh, yes was still in the center.
Uh, yes , yes, you're right. So the hub with Coinbase and Circle, yes. That's right. So and kind of meeting our users where you are, adapting to a very fast-changing industry fast-changing industry , and it just felt like now was the time to go and, not an easy task, literally rework the entire protocol and all of our applications. So, what important features really surpass what is possible in V1?
Um, a few things, and actually two separate things, because we're not only building the protocol, but we're also supporting the applications, okay? So, from the protocol side, I think the most important thing, of course, is that aforementioned, hmm, what does it actually mean to have a world where you have stablecoins, where you have L2? How does this affect how your name is recognized ? How is it, uh, you know ? How is it, uh, you know , when you want to give someone a namespace, which means actually giving someone maximum flexibility in how they don't want to develop their own namespace and set rules for their namespaces?
Um, so from the protocol side, it's really about providing maximum flexibility and design space for the user. As for the app, we currently support a frontend app support a frontend app , which is the app you use to register, renew, and manage your names. Now we're actually splitting it in two because we've also realized that the industry has now grown to the point where you have people who are maybe casual cryptocurrency users and you have people who are actually data fanatics; and they want to see the data, and when they find their name, they want to see the whole story and all its impact on the chain associated with it. Some regular users don't want this. You might want to use this as a profile.
So, actually separating this into what we call the explorer, um, and then what we call just our regular application. So, V2 is a re-architecture of our protocol, as well as our entire application interface. This is great. Hmm, something like that, there was also a big announcement a few months ago that Namecoin was no longer under consideration. Hmm, we just want to know what happened, but also maybe before that, let's talk a little bit about what Namecoin is, what the goals were, and then how you came to this decision not to do it and prioritize V2.
Yes, and it was not an easy decision. Hmm, the decision to upgrade our protocol was already in development, and the question was which technology stack we wanted to deploy it on. And I think one of the core principles of ENS and its entire design, and this is like many hours of debate, is how to maximize, and I know that word is used a lot, so maybe I won't use it won't use it . I won't use the word " the word " decentralization," but I'll say something like " say something like " lack of trust." Okay, how do you actually create experiences and proprietary assets for people, for users, that can be based on minimal assumptions about trust?
We looked at the L2 universe and we just wanted something that was as essentializing as possible throughout. Plus, one of the things that was a big problem, and maybe you remember this, maybe people here who got their names in 2021 remember this 2021 remember this , but when you got your ENS name in 2021, you probably paid how much for gas? Many. Many. Too much.
I paid, I remember I paid, I remember , at least $300 to lock my domain name. And then, to top it all off, I had to wait a whole year, but that was the time when gas prices were at their highest. So it looked like a very expensive domain purchase. Sounds like a fever dream. So yes.
One part was like thinking about what technology stack to deploy, but the biggest part of why, as you recall, we initially looked at L2 was because of experience. And we didn't want our users to, you know, float on the volatility of the gas that's in the main network. But that's crazy because we decided this 2 years ago. And again, it shows how quickly this space is moving and evolving, and while there are certainly awkwardness and problems, the space is finding a way to solve them. Because at that time, gasoline prices were still expensive.
And so we thought: you know what? If we ever want our users to not pay $300 for gas, we need to make our own L2. The thing is that in the last year alone, the price for registering an ENS name on the Ethereum network has dropped from $5 to 5 cents. 100 times. So, if you look at it from a UX perspective, you'll understand that the main motivation for creating L2's own name was that it wasn't such a reasonable assumption anymore.
And again , quicksand because of how fast space moves. So when it comes down to it, your name can only be as powerful as you can guarantee its security, right? Because if you get a name and somehow, you know somehow, you know what's more secure than Ethereum's L1 blockchain? And also, if something is related to your identity, you probably want a little stronger guarantees than anything else. Yes.
What is the only blockchain with no downtime? Ethereum. So thank you for the answer. We are a little biased, as you can see from the logo. I want to talk about some ENS updates, but I guess I'm curious about one thing: you joined ENS a few years ago as CEO, and there's ENS Labs, there's ENS DAO, there's a lot of things the project needs to do not only to support the protocol, but also to spread the word spread the word .
So, as the CEO of ENS Labs, what do you actually do actually do ? What are your responsibilities regarding the development of this entire project? Also, how do you usually interact with DAO? Okay, this is a two-part question, so I'll answer. There are many components, so you can move in any direction.
Good. Hmm, I think the most interesting thing about being the CEO of an engineering- focused organization like ENS Labs is that I get to delve into both the finances and the operations and all the things that support the entire project, as well as delve deeply into the technical side. Um, and I would actually argue that understanding the technical side directly contributes to my success in my role. And the great thing about working at a place like NS Labs is how open the engineering culture is. I feel like I was a venture capitalist in a past life , and one of the things that was really challenging for me in the venture business is that you have to see a thousand things, but you can only go to a certain depth.
And over the last two years, I feel like I've just dived deep into everything I could imagine. There are words I use today that I would n't even have known existed two years ago. There is some deviation here, but I understood something similar, namely that I used the word "delete" instead of " "delete" instead of " erase" in ordinary life, and this should not be the case. And it's like, "Oh, you just realize that some of these things are so common in your field, but they're not real words." So real words."
So , I can imagine any other differences between the work of a venture capitalist and the operations side operations side . I mean, there are so many of them, and we could talk about that some other time. Rightly. Hmm, but about how we work with DAO. So there are a few things that I think are actually really powerful, and I know powerful, and I know people don't think DAOs are maybe not the hottest topic right now, but, um, one thing that makes us constantly question is, is what we're doing actually putting our users first, and everything we do, and that's very different.
And I will give you an example. What company, Karthik, in the regular Web Two space, any space, asks its users before raising prices? Nothing that I can recall. Well, we ask. And that's because we want to, because in order to do something like that, we actually need to post it and discuss it, for example, in our DAO for example, in our DAO .
And this is madness. And I don't know of any company that does this . And we actually had a very heated debate because we decided to raise prices for the first time since launch and, in the end, we reached a compromise. So this is something new. The other thing that is more powerful because it is such a small part is that as the core team developing the protocol, we cannot single-handedly do something like update the protocol without it being voted on and agreed upon by the token holders.
Um, and yeah, I mean, could there be a universe where we did all this work and some people would say, " people would say, " Actually, we don't want V2." And it can happen. And that's kind of a crazy bet. And are you satisfied with this world? I think that, um, there's a Google slogan that goes something like this: "there will be no evil, there can be no evil."
Yes. Yes. What does "there can be no evil" really mean? No, that's absolutely fair. Hmm, one of the things that I don't think is very widely known is that ENS is integrated into PayPal and Venmo, and you can send money to a username that I just typed into their ENS name.
Hmm, it's a huge consumer app, especially in the US, with a large reach, and PayPal has a much larger global audience. I'm curious, to the extent possible, to share your experiences integrating these things with these companies or their users their users , the feedback you've received, and how it's changed your mind about the general implementation of ENS for everyone? Okay, so first of all, yes, and I want to reiterate, you can use ENS on Venmo and PayPal. Okay, that's something worth repeating. Hmm, but some lessons and something that contributes to the trend I'm seeing.
So maybe I'm answering a bonus question you didn't ask, but you didn't ask, but , wait, okay. So, Venmo and PayPal integrated ENS because they wanted to allow their users to send stablecoins to each other. And stablecoins are a very hot topic right now, in 2026, but PayPal was one of the first to do it. Actually, they created PUSD a few years ago. So they were one of the first to develop the thesis about stablecoins, and they understood that in order to offer their customers the experience of sending stablecoins to each other, they couldn't have an interface where you type 0x4eb, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, to each other.
This is not a very good user experience, period. So they were among the first; So fintech first; So fintech institutions like this were some of the first to understand, "Hey, if I want to be a stablecoin issuer, I want my users to use it to send to each other." It makes sense to integrate something like ENS that literally just lets you send it to carti.eth, instead of, you know, not to mention the security risk security risk that it creates when you just copy and paste the address, um paste the address, um , because of, you know, address poisoning and so on.” So, from a security perspective, it makes sense.
From a user perspective, this makes sense. And one of the things that I hope and look forward to is that now, in 2026, when stablecoins are a hot topic and there are institutions that are looking at this and saying, " and saying, " Actually, it makes sense to join the blockchain." And you see all these big fintech big fintech companies starting to talk about it, they're going to... You can't release a product where your users are joining the blockchain and have a 2017 UX. You have to bring them up to date.
That's right . And use ENS integration. How convenient. Um, well, speaking of stablecoins, you can only buy ENS with ETH, and that's sometimes a big hurdle, you have to take two steps to access the assets you can buy. Um, but a lot is changing, so I'm wondering what optimizations are there in terms of how you pay for your domain name, and what can we expect in the future?
Yeah, again, when ENS launched, there were no stablecoins yet, so we didn't design it to pay for ERC-20 tokens, you know? And this is something that seems very obvious today, but it's something completely new, like protocol logic that needs to be deployed, right? So, not only are we launching B2 with the ability for users to buy stablecoins to buy stablecoins , again as a nod to how quickly stablecoins have grown, but we're also working on making it possible for you to buy your ENS name for any ERC-20 token. So it doesn't even mean you like it and convert. Yes, that's incredible.
What it all comes down to is, while we're reworking the protocol, what large-scale UX improvements can we also make? And when you look at the state of the world that you're in right now and that you're building, it's like accepting ETH as payment, accepting stablecoins accepting stablecoins . If you can use a stablecoin as ERC-20, why not use all of ERC-20? And actually, let's take it one step further, can you start this transaction at transaction at any L2 level and still calculate it? This is a huge success.
I didn't even know about this, so I'm no less impressed. And I can't wait for a world where I use my token as a place to buy a domain name from some ERC-20 tokens. And that's really incredible. I feel like one of the things that you, as ENS, have the highest chance of integrating with the rest of the Internet is the ability to be fully compatible with top- level domains and just with ICANN. And I'm curious what the reaction has been from the ICANN community on how they're thinking about decentralized domain names, and what conclusions have you drawn as you've made a lot of things compatible with the rest of the DNS world?
Yes, I mean, ICANN is an institution that existed long before cryptocurrencies, and they are literally the reason we can rely on the internet internet infrastructure to work. So, it's a very old institution, and it does very important work. Something that we've seen in this, for example, alternative namespace, is a lot of new entrants that have come in and, I think, rode the wave of cryptocurrency and thought, "Oh, yeah, I'm going to sell you cryptocurrency. I am going to sell you an NFT cryptocurrency.” The thing is , the .
NET and .NET NFT cryptocurrencies of the world are not actually in the root zone of the Internet. And the problem is that if you're not in the root zone of the Internet, you're not actually officially recognized as Internet Rails, which means there's no one who can say that you're the exact sole owner of kartik.crypto, because no one kartik.crypto, because no one , because again.
So, a conflict arises and someone else can reapply for the domain. This is not very good. Not the best idea. ENS has always tried to use what , for example, dot eth is currently reserved in the Internet Internet infrastructure. So it really exists.
We collaborate, I have teammates who are currently working at ICANN 86 in Seville, Spain, on the ICANN Policy Forum. We have spent years building relationships and showing ICANN that we are not willing to do things not willing to do things that go beyond the rules of the road, and we faithfully follow them. So hopefully we will build relationships and play by the rules. In the short term, I guess sometimes we just have to look at things that are outside the scope of, I think, the rules of the world and think, "Well, we're not doing that," but in the long term, I think term, I think it pays off. And that's something I personally hope for, because I think almost a decade of work on this has proven work on this has proven that this is something that continues to evolve, and it's exciting to make it compatible with the rest of the internet.
So, um, this, um, well, .eth in my browser–this is what I'm looking forward to . My last question to you is: there are a lot of moving parts where a project as large as ENS has millions of domain names, millions of users. Um, and you manage a lot of the engineering side and the teams for that, but from your perspective, what was the most challenging part of launching, um, and building these unreliable protocols? And um, uh, do you have any other tips for people who are also trying this, or knowledge you can share?
Yeah, I think one of the hardest things about creating a protocol, but also having an application, is that , you know, the protocol does the work that you don't see, right? Because if it doesn't break, it means break, it means it works. But if it breaks, it destroys the entire integrity of everything you've built on. So ENS is sometimes judged by the progress in its programs, but its important work is actually about protocol. And of course they're both important and obviously both have to complement each other well and work well, but I think the hardest thing about building a protocol with millions of existing users is that, certainly as a startup, you can move quickly and break things.
You can't move fast and break the internet. No, you can't move fast and break things with a protocol with millions of users who have their own assets. And I think the hardest thing sometimes hardest thing sometimes is feeling like we're a startup-sized company, and we're a small company, and sometimes in the era of coding hype, releasing things here and there, and here and there, but as a protocol team, you can't, you have to design all the weird edge cases that deeply impact your users. And I think it was very difficult for me to really understand, too. Hmm, but this is probably the most difficult one, since so many decisions are sometimes made after the protocol.
And even integrating front-end integrating front-end applications and the protocol is like simply moving mountains. And I have to give a lot of credit to the team for the fact that what we're doing now is our version of coming together, you know coming together, you know ? We update the protocol, make sure the applications are updated. Yes, and this is not an easy task. So I'm excited every day for our team for being able to do this or hopefully do it soon.
I'm sure this will be a very successful launch, and thank you very much for this great conversation. Thank you. Let's give her a round of applause .
Automatic transcript — names and jargon may be misspelled.