BBW24 – Day 1 – Tokenizing Real World Assets: TCS Blockchain & the Future of Transportation Finance

start um I'm Mike reevy CEO of bulla network bua does something very simple it just mints IUS and U uh Todd Ziggler I'm the TCO or sorry CEO of TCS and uh we make Freight invoice settlement 90% faster and cheaper on chain I'm Brad Grim I I own a um a trucking company and I'm a customer with uh TCS as well as baa and uh here to represent the success so far with the the team here hi everyone I'm Eden yaw I'm the Chief Operating Officer of node 40 a portfolio company of chain reaction which was on the last panel um node 40 does data analytics for blockchain assets we really focus on the economic analysis whether there was a gain or loss or any type of uh accounting treatment to what happened on chain and I'm Jake Lynch uh I'm an investment partner at l1d uh we run two strategies a liquid fun to fund strategy and uh a venture strategy all in crypto uh and we've done several investments in rwas great and my name is John Deo I'm head of institutional uh strategy for coinbase which means I speak at conferences uh and Lead our efforts for strategic initiatives like uh setting up an offshore jurisdictions think about new product design I have a special interest in asset tokenization because I used to be head of strategy for the New York merant Exchange which was the largest Commodities Exchange in the world and what we thought about 15 years ago was um very interestingly very similar so we think about using Futures as this is pre- blockchain but we use Futures as simple synthetic instruments to futurize uh difficult assets obviously Commodities being one but we talked about prediction markets back then so a lot of stuff that's being that's happening now like poly Market was my idea 15 years ago and I failed miserably at it um uh because the market just wasn't ready so seeing blockchain as an improvement and seeing tokenization as an improvement to what Futures we able to do is really is really fascinating but I kind of want to start with um uh a broad question and we'll we'll dig into the success story behind TCS um so towards what I just said uh we see these asset classes and markets that seem right for disintermediation so whether it's real estate brokerage uh you know Ticket Master is one of my favorite examples you have a uh a strangle hold over this Market it's despised by the issuers it's despised by the consumer everybody hates it uh you don't need blockchain to get rid of it but it's been around and it probably will be around for at least another 5 to 10 years so let's just talk before we get into the details like and I kind of want to start with you so so structurally what are the characteristics of a market you look to to think it's primed for disputation blockchain aside just just ready for it put the technology aside for a second as an investor what what types of asset characteristics are you looking for Market characteristics that you think can be successful So within rwas within RW yes so I mean within rwa primarily what we're looking for is not crowded um so there's a lot of people trying the the low hanging fruit you hear a lot about treasuries and uh stable coins and things like this um these seem to be extremely difficult to compete in and so we like these like alternative asset uh exotic plays or as you mentioned ticketing ticketing is an example of a a company that we invested in this year called XP uh which is doing a essentially rwa tickets on on salana um and one of the reasons we like it is there's starting to become regulatory Tailwinds there used to be regulatory headwinds you know Ticket Master obviously getting broken up by the doj and so on and and these types of Paradigm shifts are you know really attractive from this point of view I think people underestimate the need for third party intervention in somebody these entrenched like like certainly Brokerage in the US only moved from 6% to two because the doj antitrust came in forced it to I think that's right and to your point about um non-competitive markets like I I hear lots of attempts at tokenizing oil or gold and I think it will eventually but it trades like water on Futures so it seems like a very challenging thing so Todd um let's you're the kind of Lynch pin for for everybody here in terms of us TCS why why did that market interest you yeah so I'm uh I'm an attorney by education but I've spent the last 10 years in the transportation industry and the single largest problem in the $2 trillion unit United States supply chain is the cost and time associated with trade Finance it's the problem that nobody talks about right uh shipper pay terms are 30 to 180 days and from a just to kind of zoom out for a for a second this commercial paper this rwa this is good stuff right a lot of it's Fortune 1,000 paper right and this stuff is all monetizing or or you know being paid out over the course of 30 to 180 days but if you're a five truck operator you can't wait 30 days to get paid you sure as h can't wait 180 days to get paid so what all of these companies do is they have to sell their invoices to third parties these are known as factoring companies in the transportation industry when you use the analogy of Ticket Master I thought that was perfect because everybody hates factoring companies right I mean the the word factoring is loathed and despised in the transportation industry why is it because they're they're disingenuous they're corruptable it's it's it's because the majority of these factoring companies either are banks or they're subsidiaries Banks and they charge user fees and and even to use them you're still waiting 10 days to get paid whereas if we do this on chain through TCS we're able to get these Transportation companies to cash in one to two business days 90% cheaper than any of the other Alternatives that are out there now and now all of a sudden all of these real world assets these Freight these Freight receivables can move on chain they can move into web 3 and there's a lot of really interesting stuff that can be done there in terms of creating security tokens yields for accredited investors Etc but it really is a main street use case of digital assets and blockchain so Mike you were a Trader I right you were a Trader what you trade way convertibles you say converts okay so so you you hear that you okay we've got this what I heard was fragmented Market uh owned by Central points of liquidity I the banks what the big thing I heard was mispriced risk premium meaning mentioned before like about a 1 and a half% default rate on these invoices the banks are charging as if it's N9 or 10 right that there's an ARB there right that should get you excited as a Trader but as a Trader you also know that those inefficiencies stay inefficient for a really really long time so again so why why do you think that this is working of this C well you're tapping into a whole new uh to the blockchain to Defi and if you can markets improve with better information and that's what we're doing doing we're putting it on chain you can see who issued the invoice you can see who funded it you can see what pool it's in the pool itself is a smart contract so I can't I can't hide the pce I can't reh hypothecate like my Prime broker would do with me so it's it's it's just we're tapping into a better system a more liquid system with better information and that should bring price Discovery do you need to find new buyers for that paper I do right now yes but it's 12 1 12% right now or or you know or better for usdc I think that's awfully good for one and half commercial buyers or retail buyers U right now we're set up we're not set up for retail yet but I would like to do that yes I'd like to open it up right now it's private like six addresses but the intent is to show the show the information people can see it all they can see who's issued it and then price accordingly and we should get a a repricing in credit at some point so node 40 does this type of analysis is it do like credit analysis and to help people solve that problem of picking that good or bad credit or well we no we we don't do that John thanks for asking so essentially what we do at node 40 is we take everything that's actually already happened so the transaction that's already happened and we put like an economic value to it so if you don't know if you have a gain or loss for example on a simple buy or sell we help figure that out now where we fit in the TCS um kind of um ecosystem and this is where we're really excited to partner with them is that we going to be powering the actual analysis so the the truckers in most cases um can actually come up with like an idea of what they will owe maybe in taxes um and having an proper accounting treatment on what's going to happen because if you imagine like you know the last mile problem in a lot of things is like oh let's unleash crypto to the world but then we're going to get you know sock them with a like an accounting problem these are long all truckers right so that's that's an unfair thing so I we give a lot of credit to Todd and Mike for having the for foresight to say like we you know we don't want to tackle this problem who can so that we don't screw over these truckers there's millions of them so that they actually can have like we you know they have a wallet that's tied to like where an analysis that we can provide to say like hey you'll have a gain or loss so you can bring this to your account to file your taxes so not everyone is thinking that way I mean you know in in everyone else is you know this type of infrastructure is an afterthought on most digital asset play but this is the the example of where tokenization to get into the real world you need the infrastructure pieces we're one sliver of this infrastructure you know kic is another one right but like this is like a key key aspect in why we're but that's super important because again in these disintermediation plays uh people forget that the incumbents while it's expensive and inefficient they solve those problems right yeah the truckers don't have to worry about that so Brad this is a great seg you so you own a truck so you're president of a trucking company uh years right do for eight years yeah that's right so so kind of walk us through like like I understand why the point of view of your company level this is a fantastic solution but at the trucker level at the independent trucker level like how do they think about engaging how does this improve their lives in a meaningful way yeah so um uh like Todd was talking about factoring companies are loathed in the industry uh they're hated um you have Bank issues um you know they put broad alerts on everything all the time they lock up the banks they do all kinds of stuff um factoring companies will um intentionally hold up invoices sometimes because uh um one of their employees missed something or or something like that and this solution right here cuts through a lot of the the uh baggage that these factoring companies have um and everything's on the blockchain so everything you can you can see everything is right out there um there's nothing hidden uh we've had factoring companies literally um um steal money um quite frankly and uh you can't do that on the blockchain everything's there everything's clear um so far um things have been faster cheaper easier and we've dealt with a lot of different banks a lot of different factoring companies I think this can very well explode and right now we're doing one of our carriers is doing 100% of their receivables on the blockchain and it's uh working very well to what's the what's the hardest part of the sales process so so Brad zolan Brad Zan but when you're sitting down with with 10 Brads from 10 different trucking companies what is the hardest part of the sale yeah I want to zoom out for just a second a lot of people don't realize this but in over the course of the last two years we're in a boom bus cycle right now in the trucking industry and for anybody that doesn't know 72% of all Goods in this country are on a truck at some point right um this has been the worst bus cycle I think in recorded history in the trucking and Logistics industry over the course of the last two years we have lost 50,000 American Transportation companies since Co okay and in my in my opinion one of the biggest reasons for that is the the cost and time associated with factoring invoices and I just have to give this example really quickly to answer your your your question about business development and demand if I have a $10,000 Walmart invoice okay and I'm a trucking company I'm going to pay 3 to 6% of gross to get paid in 10 Days by my factoring company okay well my net revenue on a $10,000 load if I'm lucky may be 10% it may be $11,000 okay if I'm spending $300 or $500 to get paid in 10 days on that invoice that's 30 40 50% of my net revenue that's how the sausage is being made right now in this industry and again this is a $2 trillion industry just in the United States we don't have a demand problem we have more Demand right now than we can even facilitate there is not enough liquidity in all of defi to facilitate the demand that TCS has at scale we have a $150 million Revenue pipeline of Transportation users that want to go live right now okay so what we're trying and that's with no formal marketing or advertising of any kind we're not out there running Billboards our logos aren't on any truck trailers yet they will be okay but we don't have a demand problem um what we've been trying to do is build liquidity Partnerships and and I really hate to say this it's been very frustrating as a guy that came from the Transportation industry but we've had so much support from the Transportation industry and so little support from the blockchain digital asset crypto industry everybody talks about real world use cases but he talks about Main Street use cases you know this is like the antithesis of meme tokens right so what we need is we need to continue to build those strategic Partnerships so we can bring this thing to scale because uh to the to the point that Brad made we we think that you know this solution is so infinitely Superior to everything else that's out there I mean I I shared with you earlier our largest competitor the largest factoring Freight factoring company in the United States is managing six $60 billion a year in AUM okay they're slow they are expensive they're Antiquated there just is no solution this is the facturing business yeah yeah they're just no support you mean there's just no buide interest in the paper or no we just we we we need uh Partnerships with centralized exchanges we need more liquidity relationships and and I will give coinbase a lot of credit like we've been we we've started working on some things with coinbase and we have active business cases with some other exchanges just all of this right now exists in defi it's all being managed over at uniswap but we just think like you know this this is the Satoshi thesis applied to the single largest problem in in the $2 trillion doll supply chain and I'm just really looking forward to the day where everybody says damn that was a really good idea I wish I had gotten in soon just remind me who's from BBA is this chadam house rules no letbe press here not chadam house rules there is press here there's no press Rec recorded yes okay um okay if if I need to retract anything I will no why don't Jake why don't you ask him if these are securities I will happily answer that question I mean I I would take it a step further right I would say the the man side of the equation is definitely there like we we do see a lot of people who need credit um and who really want to borrow and tap into the industry but the challenge that we're seeing across the board in the sector is like the supply side is pretty weak you know when my opportunity cost and let's say your average demographic is a 25-year-old male who has a little bit of spending income you know their opportunity cost is they either take $10 and put it in something earning 15% year-over-year uh there's a little bit of duration risk there's a little bit of trust uh and all of that stuff or they can put it in a meme coin and make maybe 10 in 24 hours you know they they're it's not a hard decision for them right so now what we go do is the when when we're talking about supply side the the thing that comes pretty clear is like okay the organizations that can't access uh traditional uh financial instruments yeah right and and that's been winning that's been working so like you know somebody like the arbitrum foundation who has raised a ton of money has a crazy amount of dollars in tokens but not necessarily dollars and dollars in a bank account well they need access to these products because they can't put it in a mem coin they need to be Diversified across all of that but this Supply issue is tough because the arbitrum foundation can definitely be an accredit investor qualified investor whatever you want to call it right um but the rest of that liquidity is gray money uh not accredited or just frankly just doesn't want to put their information in something that they don't have time to do diligence on right and I think that's really the main challenge with the security aspect of it I I do I do want to qualify John I'm I'm not so much talking about TCS token because uh accredited parties right now can participate in this ecosystem by investing in the liquidity pools at bullah now they have to be accredited right and and that you know bulla is creating uh yield generating products yield that pays better than us treasuries that is secured against what is most Fortune 1000 shipper paper right so there's a way to participate like if you don't want to buy tokens or whatever that's fine there's a way to participate in the ecosystem outside of of the digital asset play but in my mind mitigating the costs associated with you know moving Goods to Market is beneficial to everybody it's beneficial to the the transportation industry it's beneficial to every household and consumer and I would argue it's extremely beneficial to the blockchain industry because we need we need to be rallying around these use cases Mike what's that what's that product look like what's what's Y what yield are you're offering right now 12 and a quarter 12 and a quarter is that panum Paran yeah Cash Cash quarterly or monthly um it you can redeem and deposit uh as you like depends on how much money is in the uh smart contract at any given time okay so if I'm 100% invested then you can't redeem but we we you then you get on a list to to do Redemption as we collect on invoices what's the longest period of time anyone's not been able to redeem 30 days oh 30 days that's that's the max time I couldn't get I couldn't get out yeah um we we will sorry to interrupt but we we will add also a way to trade the they're called bft tokens by b a finance token so if you want to get out early yeah you can you you will know what what the acred is okay and you can you know there'll be a market of course it be a little below acrude okay but not quite at Redemption and how long you running this uh 20 days 20 days 20 days okay uh so early to ask but any sense of what your bad debt ratio is um well zero as far as I well yeah in industrywide it's about one and a half% but just like and I I I hate to liken us to a factoring company at all because I look at TCS as a blockchain as a service settlement company but we have to vet every invoice that comes through the door right we we kyc AML our carrier relationships our transportation relationships but every invoice that they send to us we have to independently vet we don't have an obligation to buy it right if it's Fortune 1000 paper we're buying it right now if it's Bob's Carpet Barn and Bob's on the brink of the chapter 11 we're going to pass on that invoice so there there is a lot of due diligence going on behind the scenes as as it relates to default my exposure to bullah that 12 and a half% how um Diversified is that pool of underlying right now it's only TCS um sourced paper and how Diversified was that pretty Diversified okay so I guess I'm leading so here for those of you who aren't um kids who want 800x on their point um how many of you here would be really happy with 12 a half% paper cash on cash with 30-day liquidity at this point in your life secured against Fortune 1,000 with a one and a half% or lower default rate like I I want I want it like that like I can't bu when when treasuries when mun hit six and five and a quarter in New York I was buying them like hot cakes that's an 8% 8% tax return um it is crazy to me that this isn't more popular so I want to spend the next 10 minutes even asking each of you with a thesis of what what what is the major challenge to cracking um you know uh maybe even not not not accredit accredited accredited investors in the US not high not u high net worth but just accredited 200,000 1 million net worth there was a huge chunk of those in the US why have these types of yield products not been able to crack into that market okay I'll start I'll start with yeah I'd say the distribution platforms aren't in place yet you know we've seen tons of crowdfunding platforms over the years that aren't in digital assets we're not seeing this yet for something that TCS and bull are doing yet you know I I I often think of uh um as I wear my Boston gear and stuff around people stop and ask me about crypto all the time right I'm sure it happens to everyone and you usually they're young people or you know fresh out of college or something like that and they say like where do I jump into crypto I'm like wait crypto's coming for you now in the case of the truckers right here we are the crypto has come to them it's not like a trucker and Brad could probably speak to this he didn't probably wake up a year ago say I can't wait to get into crypto or digital assets or something right or tokenization it's just like TCS deliver it to him so we need something on the other side of the platform as as Todd has explained like he's got a ton of demand but we need some liquidity into the system something similar has to happen on the other side of the coin to say like cuz there are people like we just did a straw pull there's a ton of people looking for a better yield on something right 12 and a half% is way probably 600 basis points better than anything else you're going to get out there investing in America so you're I mean Brad Brad what what your trucker bu say when you're getting the crypto come on be honest well a lot of them are scared of it so yeah um what we need to do is create a platform where it almost looks like uh something they're used to something that looks like more like a bank and um if you do it right it might not even look like crypto they might just uh just kind of sit into it naturally and say oh this is just a different service this is how I get my invoices paid and I think that's very possible with um with some good marketing and some good onboarding we need better uis good good user experience absolutely much much we need uis that that look normal and not scary yeah black screen get rid of those I I might disagree with that I think okay which part uh the the better UI side I of course I would love better UI but I used to work in internal accounting at a fortune500 firm and I can guarantee you you don't give off internal I know no and I can guarantee you that the people I was working with are kind of that Target demo and they were using the worst uis I have ever seen in my life our people love Snappy uis High click 100x lever right you need a latency of less than 100 milliseconds that's the crypto people they love that but the people who are looking for you know fixed income products or or lower risk products they're comfortable with bad UI I'll tell you what what I think they need um I think they need to be able to first of all the probably the biggest barrier here and we've seen this since 2020 21 has been interest rates right interest rates being high has just clogged up a lot of demand beyond that it also prevents you from kind of Levering against some of these fixed income products to find the risk level that you're looking for and the yield that you're looking for so you know a lot of people will say 125% that may maybe not my to take on some of this additional crypto risk but if that additional crypto risk is fixed and the levered risk can be dynamic right then you don't take on additional crypto risk if you increase the yield that you're getting right but what crypto risk are they taking by buying this p i mean of there's natural crypto risk it's the same type of risk that you would have as a counterparty right now you just imagine the smart contracts are your counterparty PCS is a counterparty here right they all exist that that's fair but they're not they're not they're not taking any risk to the unless usdc were to depay I'm not talking about the token RIS yeah yeah look when when NX created the jet fuel contract a long time ago I remember uh I was so excited this solves a huge problem Airlines have they can hedge their jet fuel exposure and our marketing team failed miserably they couldn't sell the contract and I remember I I jumped on the call like this is this was my product and like this is really smart they should all love it and I remember being on the phone with um American Airlines the CFO and we pitched it and he was like yeah we we don't we don't do Futures Trading and go and remember he said he said we don't speculate we're an airline we don't speculate on jet fuel prices and I almost jumped through the phone I'm like that's the freaking Point like you're you're short jet fuel if you don't use my product you're speculating if you use my product you're not right and um it just took a while it just took a while to get people comfortable because they the reality is they have to H they had to hire a Futures trade they had to but I think you're making my point the when was that late 90s I'm not that old yeah you don't look that old like 2007 that's too recent for some of them react that way I think you're kind of making the point though is like at the end of the day the thing that gets people there the thing that pushes people over the edge is the money you know it's the risk and the it's a it's always a risk return calculation it's it's the yields and and and it's the assets and and that's I I think you know one of the greatest things about this ecosystem is you know again it's not about it is about blockchain and digital assets but it's not these carriers just want their money they want faster and cheaper settlement and they can't get it anywhere else once that paper is onboarded you know they're there not not to say that anything is risk-free but for my money I would rather get a 12% annualized yield against some type of digital representation of uh collateralized Walmart receivable then invested into us treasuries and you know I I think the reason that we don't have um more more volume and activity yet is because In fairness to Mike and I we've been building out these Tex stxs for about two years right and we've we've gone through you know kind of a a dark period in crypto over that time but but but this is now here right um and and we're finally in a position to to scale this up so I I I I believe that the I believe that the demand will come from accredited side so so Mike you you you talk to commercials right now you talk sophisticated buyers of credit instruments they they can look at this information off the blockchain not off the blockchain and they can come to a reasonable conclusion around how much exposure they want to take yes how can even a sophisticated credited right so I I'm a credit investor I view myself as fairly sophisticated but in certain I know Commodities cold I know Equity I know options derivatives cold I actually don't know credit that well I just never grew up in it was never really can I can I run a model fine but I'm not a credit expert I'd be a bit intimidated looking at that pool on my own so how do we how do we get to a point where the way people are playing around with real estate yields on these apps how do we get to a point where a moderately sophisticated credit investor who doesn't know a lot about credit can feel comfortable swiping on an app and buying this these tranches directly I I think it's it's in the history so if you can look at the token that you bought at $1 and now it's consistently gone up to 123 and you redeem a few times you've got deposits redemptions the history is there the history will tell you it's not always the future but it does give you an indication of how good the product is the other thing is addresses bullah the reason I named my company bullah is because bullah is an old name for stamp or for signing things and when I was a bond Trader my word was my bond you know bought at 105 y right I mean even if I lost all the paperwork I still bought right R so it's the same idea if I mince an IOU or youo me and I sign it then I'm saying you owe me money right whether it's true or not depends on my history and I think as you get more history of payments on chain you're going to get better and better credit metrics there's a great company called spectral for example a couple of others that measure payments and measure you know whether these addresses are really true or not so and and Aiden do do you see your product helping individual retail investors solve those tax problems accounting problems as well or is it more geared towards we we're geared more towards institutions and this is the first time we've actually worked with an entity like Todds at TCS blockchain um because you know technically you know we're we're we're Contracting with with TCS not as individuals you know we have just a way of delivering our our C capabilities as a kind of feature within the product that that that Todd's offering through TCS but normally our normal like off-the-shelf offering is mostly sold to accounting firms um big crypto funds um we're getting a lot of interest from salon validators so usually we are the data that feeds their accountants okay yeah and and can I add something so so the other issue I think with tokenization of invoicing is you're not going to jettison your current accounting system just to get stuff on chain to put into a pool right you need to have the whole package pretty much in place before any Walmart for example doesn't have a wallet right now right you know they should to take imagine you seeing your own um AR flowing through on a pool you could ARB that all day yes especially at 12 and a half% right absolutely so why not get a wallet and you know hey corporate let's let's make some money here so but we need all the tools and people being you know comfortable with those that's why node 40 takes we just have arap and a couple of other you know pretty good accounting tools but nothing like note 40 for a real Audits and things like that how how hard was the onboarding process sorry sorry sorry how hard was the onboarding process for you um getting up and running yeah so like I said uh I think I think we can continually improve that um it was a little little more cumbersome but I think I think um with a few improvements it could be just as easy as a traditional factoring company type of thing in the industry in fact it probably could be easier uh once it gets really refined I'm sure it could be faster easier people can be processing receivables uh very quickly and uh yeah so it was it was pretty good not too bad and and if if I can R um you know what we're doing right now is effectively o2c right over over in defi land on on Unis swap really in order for a carrier to on board once we've got more Integrations in place with centralized exchanges all they need to do is sign a security and settlement agreement just like they would do over in the factoring world right you got to sign it send a PDF to TCS we we complete our kyc AML and they have a wallet on an exchange that TCS can directly deposit tokens to that's that's it it's a two-step process these would be Securities on centralized exchanges no not TCS is a non-security digital asset okay right I thought you just said security we we have no no um we have carriers sign a security and settlement agreement got it okay right um which which is really about managing recourse default risks those types of things okay it's very similar to a factoring agreement I would argue though the the most important distinction Beyond faster and cheaper settlement in gred that's important okay if you're a trucking or a logistics company anywhere in the United States or Canada and you go to a factoring company you're probably having to give them a personal guarantee you're probably collateralizing all of your business assets and you're giving them exclusivity on all of your existing and future invoices TCS does not have any exclusivity requirement if you don't like faster and cheaper settlement on chain you walk away you go back to your factoring company you go back to waiting 9 days to collect from XYZ shipper you can walk I would say that's that was crucial to uh trying it out um because you don't lock yourself into a you know like a cumbersome UCC filing or anything like that on on your uh your business so yeah the ability to try it out um and so since we tried it and for some reason we we do like faster and cheaper invoicing so we stayed right and uh so I think all you're factoring or do you split it between traditional no no we're we're doing 100% of receivables on this carrier at this point yeah and how long for how long uh it's been what another month or almost 30 days yeah no speed bombs no no issues no it's been it's been much better so far yeah so so Jake let's talk about the the when you look at these projects to invest in um the decision for decentralized versus centralized projects and you have a preference do you how how do you think about that I mean all of the is every every project in this sector needs to be centralized to an extent and then there's increasingly centralized I think what we tend to see is like if you do have aspirations to go in a decentralized fashion you can't do it from the start like you have to start centralized and you know it has to be uh nobody pays you to be decentralized right you you actually kind of get paid more to be centralized because you know like there's a there's somebody to hold accountable for it right if you have to go in the US court system or you know we see a lot of Emerging Markets credit and they have to go into Brazilian court system or something very foreign you want a centralized party there to uh to work for you so that's what we're seeing generally speaking when it when we talk about this part of the supply chain uh The Lending side on you know as you get to the bull side you can get more decentralized and it's easier to kind of uh spread it out and and I I will share too it it I in my mind maybe we get there in the future but it would be impossible to to be entirely decentralized because at the end of the day somebody has to collect from these shippers right TCS just like a factor in company manages those collections right you got to make sure that the end debtor or the end payer actually A's the funds to a business checking account right so we could get there we could get there in the future in terms of Automation and decentralization but I think we're a while away who eats defaults uh t on paper TCS does but but we also we do have recourse rights by contract against our carriers so if a carrier sells us um uh an invoice the invoice may be good the payer the debtor may be good but maybe there's a claim on the load maybe 50% of those strawberries went bad in transit right we would then have recourse rights against our user to cover that Gap and we're not going to take them to court over it we're not going to say write us a check tomorrow but we are going to have to to to work that out on the next couple loads right to to to recourse that loss back got it okay um any questions by the way we got about five minutes left if there's any questions we can take them now uh yes sir oh I'm I'm sorry he has the mic and you're next Bobby Buckley with coinbase John good to see you how you doing how's it going um just wondering on the TCS side how portable do you see this to other Industries in terms of receivables is this very specific to trafficking because of the lower default rate or uh factoring is is a major problem it's a systemic problem in most Industries my background is in trucking and Logistics and it I mean the problem is really rampant there because pay terms are I mean I can't tell you how many Fortune 500 companies are net 180 people don't believe me when I tell them that like you deliver a load of widgets from California to Manhattan and you get a piece of paper that says we'll pay you in six months that is industry standard but we believe that this solution can scale to every industry where you have factoring company Banks intermediaries charging these user rates to manage B2B settlement thanks um I'm Greg I maybe two questions first if I'm a trucker and this could be actually you anyone in that part of this type of deal are you asking me to set up a wallet and receive payment digitally or is that all happening prior to um is that all they being paid in Fiat and that's all happening within kind of the TCS framework yeah you're you're getting paid on an exchange right if if if you're on an exchange in in the future right on a centralized exchange you have a wallet we directly deposit tokens to that wallet um in in defi those tokens can go to metamask or or some type of other wallet and then uh TCS is is the buyer of Last Resort when a transportation company divests most of these companies they're not investing in crypto they're not arbing meme tokens right they need to get to cash it costs like $1600 to fill up a truck with these diesel right so they need to get to cash so most of them want to divest 100% of their tokens when they get them we can actually facilitate that entire settlement process in about 45 seconds from the time those tokens hit their wallet to the time they sell to the market and TCS buys those tokens back we can facilitate that whole settlement in in 45 seconds to a minute and how is that education process or is there an education process that seems like a big step of it to me is getting people unfamiliar with this world yeah who daily lives to accept that I want Brad to end when your employees come to you and say you know how how do you get them comfortable with this notion that ultimately the company's being paid in tokens not cash oh uh well they just think it's cool um our employees um but they lot of them truckers are known DJ so like obvious I wanted to I want to add this really quick Brad 50% of the trucking companies that have reached out to us organically have dipped their toes they had a coinbase account they they had you know they had a wallet somewhere else like they they are familiar I just wanted to add that point so I'd say for for the future hopefully hopefully truckers all they need like even independent owner operators single man operations um if they have a coinbase account that might be all all they need um later in the future hopefully if these Partnerships work out um and and that's not too bad that's it's pretty usy user friendly um you'll get your tokens you sell them for cash and you send it to your bank so it it would be uh pretty easy right now you do need to be a little more um crypto Savvy because you got to do some decentralized stuff but once we get on those centralized then then it's just going to be a lot easier but yeah the the truckers out there they think this stuff's cool and they are looking for something better because um uh factoring and um you know Todd was talking about the margins right so even the the very largest trucking companies they're running you know four 6% margins you know every day and if you're losing 2% through invoicing I mean that's that's massive so yeah yeah yeah hopefully one question um on the liquidity pools what exactly are they are they Unis swap liquidity pools are they concentrated liquidity pools what if the volatility of the TCS token goes up or down can I participate not participate how does that work it's it's more simple it's very simple all it is is is anytime he mints an invoice he sends it to the pool the pool underwriter code decides whether it wants to finance it at a particular rate and then it goes into the the pool we send him some usdc we wait to then collect on the usdc on the original invoice that's all it's doing it's very simple then there are a few other functions there's a we have a tax thing in there right now we're not sure how will be taxed so it's in there and then there's a fee and a protocol fee and that's it and then to deposit and redeem right now depending it's it's too simple now it needs to be a little more refined but however much money is in the pool that's how much can go out uh you know based on the price of the token