Matthew Aaron ~ Proof of Location Panel Crypto 101

[Music] good morning ease Denver this is the proof of location panel My name is Matthew Aaron I'm the host of crypto 101 and this and before we start proof of location I want to introduce our panelists first mr. Ari troll can you please introduce yourself sir Oracle for a location and for metadata from the physical role mr. Marcus Dell no East hi good morning everybody I'm Marcus East I'm the chief technology officer for National Geographic how do you everyone my name is Cameron Shore I work at dish Wireless and I am the business development lead for our IOT and smart cities initiatives welcome gents thank you very much for being here before we go into proof of location what we want to do is you want to set the stage we want to talk about the current issues in location data in general mr. Ari troll can you please walk us through the first of issues in location data so up till now probably been focusing on accuracy of data so if you look at GPS you look at navigation systems or you know assist the GPS even on your phone where it uses fingerprinting and stuff we've always been focused on accuracy and you always trust the sources that you get the data from so it could be the satellite and it's your own phone and you're looking at that but it's a one-way heuristic so you're actually reading data from satellites for GPS you're actually looking at fingerprints from Wi-Fi or from Bluetooth and that sort of thing to get the location but it doesn't increase the certainty at all and one of the problems we've run into is certainty of location especially for auto trails or for anything which actually matters you know the example this is Pokemon go where you can go like all the Pokemon in Africa by just spoofing the GPS on your phone fairly easily you know they can look at well how faster to get you there so if you teleported to Africa they could say well that's not real but you can fake a path to Africa and then go get the Pokemon goes so increasing this certainty of location and also the indoor location aspect of it it's kind of difficult so that's always been a problem especially when it comes to decentralization because when decentralization if you have multiple sources of data so you have tens of thousands or even millions of people who are all producing location data and metadata that's associated with those locations how do you know they were actually where they say they were and so how do you trust trustless data and that's kind of what xyo does as we work on the certainty of data that's location and metadata from the world that is not from a known trusted source like you know your own phone or your own system Brennan is there any issues with current issues like location data with your two companies Marcus yeah I would build a more Airy said in the one of the things that I think about or is the credibility of the data so for example if you're collecting information about pollution in a particular location would you trust the local government to provide that data to you because they have an incentive to provide data that may not be 100% accurate so if you're trying to do something that is based on science in fact you might want to have some sort of independent distributed trustless access to data so that you can have absolute confidence in it to help you make the right decisions not that I'm suggesting government's lie about data but sometimes it happens yeah and I would say as we look at all these Internet of Things devices that can be connected I mean obviously the location is extremely important and Marcus kind of hit the nail on the head there as far as if you've got all these devices connected to the Internet and you can't rely on their location at all then you can't get a lot of the insights that you're deploying these devices out there in the first place so I mean location data kind of is is the fundamental ground layer for any other information to have any contextual and Thank You Jensen so we know that there's her current issues with location data you can spoof pokeyman go you really don't know where it but you can spoof GPS to tell you like where things aren't where they're supposed to be mr. Ari troll can you please tell us some solutions and some things that maybe xyo is doing to help foster you know more confidence in GPS or location data Oh so the model that we used for our protocol at xyo is really we call it Bound witness and proof of origin and so it's all relative data because one of the things that we found is it's really difficult to substantiate something absolutely so for example do you know you're actually in Denver right now the only reason you think you're in Denver right now is because you have other Roth of data points around you that suggests that you're in Denver or you have a history trail of you know you were at the airport and they drove from the airport to here but all the facts that you actually know from a mathematical standpoint is that you're actually sitting in a chair in a room that looks like the room that should be Ethan ver and so on and so forth so the way a human mind works is we collect tons and tons and tons of relative data over time and then we're really good at projecting that relative data into absolute truths and we started off by injecting an absolute truth into it so for example if I want to say well where as is Marcos right now I believe I'm in San Diego at Denver and I know for a fact that he's you know within proximity of me so the commutative property I can say well he's within proximity of me so when X Y all we did was we were setting out to collect tons and tons and tons of these relative data points so starting off with proximity and then also other metadata that is Co optimal because it's a two-way street and so if for example if Marcus night took a selfie together and we both signed it now we have proof that we were actually within proximity of each other we weren't don't have proof we were at each Denver but we have proof that we were there on a self he can't really have the time in there so what we do is we put this in a ledger that's immutable and now I can see at least from a relative standpoint that this selfie I took what Marcus was after a selfie I took with somebody else and before a selfie I took with a third persons now I know these from a relative standpoint where it was in my timeline so given all these relative data points we can actually make a lot of conclusions that are close to zero knowledge proof to be able to prove data and the position of of metadata somewhere in our physical universe Cameron would you like to continue with that did so how how dis wireless could use such a concrete data location data solution yeah well I think as we build as we build a nationwide network there are tens of thousands of different pieces of hardware that are gonna be out there so just from like an operational efficiency standpoint accuracy of location is going to be critical for us and then as we connect customers to that and we have hundreds of thousands millions of different devices connected to the network knowing where they're at contextually amongst our network so we can better do Network slicing and allocate resources specifically to certain parts of certain edges of the network so on and so forth yeah accuracy of that location and the reliability of that is of all most importance Marcus but we're talking offline you told me about maybe National Geographic covering the entire planet with sensors could you tell me a little bit more about that tell everybody about that and how would that work yeah it delights it to me we believe that the more that people know about the planet the more likely they are to care about the planet so right now there's lots of discussions about different aspects of our existence you know climate change temperature sea levels and we think that the right way to inform that discussion is to provide data because if you can have data to inform those conversations it then provides credibility the challenge is if I take one of our use cases we have explorers that have develops and technology that detect sounds in areas that are vulnerable so for example you can have a little device that's in a rain forest and if it hears someone start a chainsaw it triggers an alert to us that says hey somebody may be about to do some illegal logging the challenge that we have is that we don't have enough people to climb trees in rain forests to go and put these things up and we also want to have this around the whole world so one of the things that excites me about the work that my idea is doing is this idea that if you can really crowdsource that data if you can get many many people around the world participating in creating that data and providing those heuristics you can build that searchable you can build that searchable vision of the world and then policymakers should make decisions about where to put a road or where to build a building based on data like what is the impact on pollution what is the impact on biodiversity and that's my passion and that's why I'm really excited about developments in this space and so to top off on that I think what's most exciting about and something we're all excited about run blockchain technology is like this incentivization layer that maybe wasn't there before and it the economic value was so abstract 'add from the case that market is talking about of covering the whole world with these IOT sensors and getting a pulse of the planet or you know some sense of what's going on everywhere the incentives ation layer wasn't there to deploy devices to collect that data so on and so forth and I think what's really cool about blockchain technology specifically is that we now have the in cinema zation layer there to incentivize these things to happen and yeah make better world for all of us because of it talking about having the the IOT and having different devices all over the world you know confirming location data ari and i were talking on a podcast recently and he we were talking about a hypothetical example of amazon delivering packages via drone and how those things are gonna be delivered at your house sign for and the location data made from something in your home can you tell us about like maybe a vision of the future of xyo kind of linking the world or location well the example of logistics is one of the simplest examples from a business and how does this actually make something of value or direct value for for the world and be able to pay for a system like this you know and be having agreed now I'm sure if you know you guys have had a delivery of Amazon package sometimes at the end of the tracking system they have a photograph of where was delivered so use a photograph of your hello math in front of your apartment or your house and there's a package on it and scale because is there proof that they delivered it I've had that problem before where they delivered it to a construction site which was a house before where I lived in but I think the wrong address but they have a picture of it so um kind of that's a very blunt force way of doing that it's just take a picture you can't really take a picture of the house because then you know now there's some privacy concerns but being able to have a ledger you know an audit trail that actually establishes that mathematically that it was actually delivered and even gives you more data points along the way of where it was you can even add in there other things of how it was handled so I don't know if you've ever had somebody you know throw something which is breakable over a fence when they deliver it for you you know their post office and their brakes so in our system but we can do is besides having these location spots in there we can collect other sensor data so if there's an accelerometer in there well you know this is the sudden g-force stop we can have a new so it's like oh this thing has exceeded a certain g-force or a certain temperature so anybody who receives something whether it's ice cream at a grocery store anyone know if it melted somewhere along its voyage or you know a TV or hasn't been dropped somewhere along its voyage all these these little meta data points can be put in there and then also it's unequivocally true that these sensors are actually triggered so it isn't just well when you get to the end you know does the box look damaged which is you know very very unlikely to tell you what happened to it over the journey yeah was it somewhere humid was it somewhere warm was it drop was it all these different things so I think that the practical use of this technology in logistics is something which is the the shortest distance to to revenue for us for example but from changing the world standpoint I don't think it's as important as some of the other things we can do with it but it definitely helps us build out the network and make it bigger what are some of those other things we can do with it sir well like some of the things for example that Marcus was talking about where you know they don't trust a country for example potentially for that data or even I've you've seen this in in research papers if people will have to retract something whether it's a drug discovery that they believe was fine but they ended up happening was they removed certain data points from the study to make their point valid and so if when a person starts the study for a new drug if they have to go and put all the different people who are participating in there and then be able to track their location and their history and all the metadata that comes along with it at the end they can't say well you know we remove these two or three people from it you know because it didn't support our theory they have to actually either throw out the entire study or present all the data so basically it ties all that data together so that idea of being able to to keep people honest and things that really matter and whether it's you know drug research whether it's you know global warming research there's all these different things where I don't think people realize often the capitalistic instincts for humans often make data manipulation something which is is a very common thing Cameron would you like to go into a little more about this metadata and how good maybe dissonant where could be part of the the collection of that data you have a lot obviously when you've got tens of millions of different IOT devices all needing connectivity they're sending all that data over or will we sum all that data over our network and it puts us in a prime location to provide services around that data but also to aggregate that data create insights around that specifically thinking about smart cities you've got all these different smart city sensors one might be a air quality sensor that's sitting outside on all these light poles or something like that but then block down the road or a different part of the city you've got traffic monitors and maybe a smart sidewalk sensor or ambient noise sensor so on and so forth and for the city to be able to better do better urban planning so on and so forth you need to collect all this data to provide context around it and obviously eventually insights and I think you know specifically the network providers position very well I guess to to aggregate some of this provide some services around that yeah Marcus with this witness metadata that we will be collecting I'm assuming there's is a trust list of course but you know there's gonna be a lot more confidence in this data a lot of people are still denying climate change a lot of people are denying that you know that we actually have to make a change how what this help National Geographic or you know things that you're passionate about help prove the case so we can make positive changes in the world yeah it's it's a great question I'll share an interesting statistic that I learned a few years ago in my career whilst human beings can understand conceptually the world and can care about it at a conceptual level we typically only do things if they're going to have a direct impact on us and you care about things that are happening within 30 miles of where you live and where you grew up and I think for me that's the opportunity is that if you can harness the power of blockchain to enable citizen scientists if you can get people thinking about and caring about the data for their neighborhood and their community then you can get them to care more about it and I love this idea that through the technologies that were talking about today wouldn't it be wonderful if every morning when a child woke up they went to a dashboard and it told them you know how many insects are in their neighborhood and what's going on in their location from a temperature perspective and what the air quality is like in their neighborhood and I think that if we can make that something that is relevant to people in their daily lives we're more likely to be able to incentivize them to actually do something about it and that for me is the power of what we're talking about today it's it's all anchored in location and location is one of the ways in which human beings can conceptually connect themselves to the world so being able to connect the data to the location makes it easier to connect it to an individual human being and I feel passionate about that hariki can you talk about more about the validation or the validity of that data we always hear a fake news and if it's gonna be used as Marcus just explained and bitten collected as Cameron explained how do we use that your data from xyo network to keep Falcons pushing forward this agenda of non fake news for example also the way I look at it is that by definition reality is whatever the majority of people's perception of reality agrees it is right so so what's true is it's a it's a consensus basically so if the majority people in either a group or an area or in the world agree something that's true then it's true and so the way that the data for xyo works is we basically interrelate all the data and we have these bound witnesses so we have one giant massive cloud of data and so if you have a sub tied you can't have a sub site if you want to have it just in your house and and it basically doesn't interact with the rest of the network that's fine but now you have basically a local truth and it's only you have valid for yourself and that the consensus or the people in your house who agree on that that's the reality for you there that's not necessarily valuable for the rest of the cloud if it's not you know interrelated to that but the thing which is nice about having this giant cloud is any anomaly because it really our system is a large anomaly detector and what we want to do is we want to remove anomalies we want to be able to either see if they're valid or if they're invalid if they're Byzantine oh but it's really really really hard to to fake the data in a system if you have to go and basically rewrite the system and all the data that's in there to actually have 51% of the data support your conclusion so if you have billions of data points to actually float fake news or fake data or that sort of thing it becomes prohibitively expensive calculus problem right the certainty of data is something which will never be achieved okay do we even know whether or not we're in a physical world we don't really know so we can't be certain of anything but what we can do is we can agree that this the certainty of data is approaching certain you know approaching a hundred percent so we can never reach 100% but if we can get to 99.

9 percent it's a lot higher than the certainty that we have right now so that's really what we do we we take all this interrelated data and come up with effectively a consensus of where all the data supports each other and any outliers are basically detectable are we just switch gears for a little bit could we talk about a little bit of the hardware that we have in house right now the sentinals the miners the coin app the xyo has and how that how it's being used and sure so we started off with location and the reason for that is because to tie all stuff together you have to have an X Y Z and T coordinate for the metadata so our current hardware basically what it does is it does a handshake and all it does is it stores the relative position between the different devices like in Bluetooth for example it's not our SSI so how far apart are they it's a vector in a some random Direction you even know which direction it was you just know they were within say twenty feet of something else so our current system is really the underpinnings for storing all this data and how to build out this network of metadata and be able to link them all together with a relationship which is with their relative position in time-space once we have that which we have now what we're starting to do is we're working on adding other heuristics so for example you can add temperature you can add the battery level of your device you can add noise levels you can add all these other heuristics to it and we have this connection of of time space location between all of them so now you can actually look at all those different things that are there but more importantly can also have cross references so if there's three or four or five different things that are proven to be in the same area taking the same reading if they all agree then the odds of that reading is a lot higher and the larger the network is it's kind of nice where you have a network effect the larger the network is the more density is in certain areas to higher they're certain to go so the goal is to basically you know approach an infinite certainty and all these different things but you have to have infinite data to have infinite certainty so our Hardware basically is to start that off and to get the relative location and be able to build on a large and larger network between our phone app and between the physical Hardware all those things are adding nodes to our network so there's a booth upstairs xyo booth so everybody - check out some of the things and products that X while provides this manufacturing right now you can see the sentinels they are beacons of location you could download the coin app and mine different location data or in some xyo token and just talk to the devs up there some in ari's around you could talk to them last question fun question simple question what would you like to see hacked here at Denver and maybe in relation to your business or your companies or just maybe your passions Cameron yeah again I think proof of location is kind of the fundamental or like one of the fundamental pieces of metadata that contextualizes everything else and so actually like some of the simplest use cases are some of the most interesting I think specifically around asset tracking or tracking of supply chain logistics something around that would be really interesting to see it with the proof of location they're tied into it again if you're a fishing tuna and you're trying to prove that the tuna that you fish came from a sustainable a part of the ocean something like that right right right now some of the applications that we've seen around you know we're within the blockchain space the fisherman is entering in the proof of location or they're using GPS or something like that but it's still a very manual process maybe something that kind of abstract some of that yeah something where that Marcus do you think they can start tagging the fish maybe ten animals if I will actually working with Google to do that using AI being able to identify species but what I would love to see here at the conference would be I think gaming is the answer to everything I'm a huge gamer and my belief is that one of the ways to win people's hearts and minds is gaming and I think that something that ties location into a really great gaming experience you know building on the sort of principles that are in the coin app I would love to see what people can do to like my wife if you know she plays candy crush if you can come up with a game that somehow integrates blockchain principles and gets her participating she's a machine so I'd love to see some development in that space so we have a few bounties also I think for that hackers upstairs and a lot of bounties are around ethereal integration for our system so one of things is interesting about our system is the data the way we have is stored and everything is not specifically on ethereum or on a blockchain it's just it's data which by itself can be analyzed on is proof of origin chain and you know use either through an API or through a smart contract but our integration into aetherium is something for to be used with the smart contracts and I think most of our bounties here are revolving around that whether it's that the UI for how a person will be able to call the smart contracts actually integrating with the smart contracts and being able to query our system for the smart contracts oh I would love to see so good steps forward on how to actually use our system through the etherium Network from from the hackers here right now Jen's thank you very much for coming on the panel and once again you can go up to the booth to check out the Sentinels download the coin app some of the leaders of mining location data have earned over 300,000 xyo token the second-place persons like a hundred thousand the third place is 60,000 xyo tokens so it's a lot of fun check out the app check out the the dev is up there and and say thank you to our each row marcus east and cameron strong thank you guys [Applause]