Swarm Summer School ‘21, Day 3: Gregor Žavcer - Grow your adoption through Fairdrive

hello hello gregor um uh grigor will talk uh as director of the strong foundation he will talk about the opportunities with fair drive fair drive is uh like of course great could explain it far better combined with fire os it allows developers to build thin apps within depths on swarm with ease is the description you gave i'm very excited to hear about this and um please take it away thank you thank you robert just a second let me share my screen all right can you uh can you see my screen yes yep okay so um welcome everybody uh it's great to be here uh and also uh it's a humbling and a bit also intimidating experience to be in this awesome company of uh all the speakers uh so it's really hard to feel feel the shoes uh of the previous talks uh i will try i will try to address more the uh layers on top of swarm and how they interact with swarm how they uh how how they address that development and also protocol development if i use victor's metaphor of the piping um i guess we will be speaking more about the pipes uh spas saunas bathrooms and pools and so forth so uh let's just uh let's just uh jump uh jump in uh uh immediately um today uh i won't be usually uh those who know me and know that i speak a lot about values and ethics and things like that i won't be speaking about these topics today also uh recently um i gave a talk at ecc uh there uh i was addressing how we can empower digital freedom through collaboration uh we will we will tackle more as i mentioned the the other letters and hopefully there are also uh interesting information uh for you uh if there are any questions just let me know and we can either address it during the talk or at the end at the end during q a so uh to give an overview of the talk first we'll touch upon the world today and the importance of privacy data interoperability and data sovereignty then also as you know we we are part of the ethereum ecosystem we have we are sharing the same origins uh swan has been incubated under ethereum foundation for several years before um graduating on its own we will also have a quick look uh what we can learn already from ethereum and how we can apply this to swarm then uh we will touch upon uh very briefly what is fair data economy uh what is fair data stack uh going towards uh fair drive uh the project and uh how to grow uh your uh depth adoption uh by uh using it um at the end uh we will also conclude with a couple of examples and maybe there will be time left to also uh do a little bit of brainstorming uh what uh what kind of dabs uh could be built and what kind of that future we could see so let's just dive in uh i mean it's um i guess one could say that even the birds and the trees are already singing in ones and zeroes today so we live in a data-driven society fueled by data mostly by personal data moreover uh we also live in a very addictive world you know it's like uh even uh with all the social media apps with the games going on it's addictive is the buzzword it's uh it's the adjective that kinda announces if a project will be uh successful or not and uh for this we can basically use the common term being used dopamine economy um this is in a way for me personally it's uh worrying so uh an example here that i'm giving is if you go to bali these days it's a little bit difficult because of kovit uh you do a search you do a search for a tour and the most popular tourist tour is instagram tour so you can cover the whole of bali in one day by visiting just the instagram worthy sites this shows us this shows us how we actually how the digital and physical have merged how actually the digital is dictating even our behavior in the physical and it's uh yeah it's mildly put it's concerning so maybe maybe here just as an intermezza uh an interesting video what these kind of apps are doing to us here we see i wouldn't say a typical user of instagram but uh we could say typically looks like quite a power user doesn't have to you know girls on the oh touching beach that's always dangerous and so forth so we can we can share the video uh the rest of the video afterwards it's uh quite interesting uh to see but basically why i'm showing this is because it shows the methods that the the approaches that are being used go basically down to our physiological core the core that we also share with uh yeah other primates one some scholars say that the world is going even so far that it's not just you know about uh age of surveillance about surveilling us but it's actually kind of like an automation so uh the apps the design uh do uh actually we do what they dictate us uh sarah speaker man uh who wrote the digital ethic book she she's claiming that the devices have got a life of their own uh constantly interrupting us with notifications and telling us what to do when so in this sense surveillance capitalism uh one could say is just the beginning uh some term that uh is also being used is that we are kind of drifting into data slavery data stay very powered by the combination of surveillance capitalism and dopamine uh economy and here we can remind uh ourselves of the great talk alexi had on monday speaking about digital integrity and we see our digital integrity is eroding away data slavery essentially is about taking away our autonomy moreover it is changing us profoundly if you have more trouble focusing today as you had five to ten years ago this is not age related so what's the antidote it's in our opinion it's beta combination of data sovereignty and privacy are the bedrock of uh freedom um here uh this is also aligned with again referencing back alexis where he uh he was arguing that we need first anonymity on top of which we can we can build new solutions now beta sovereignty is enabled by data interoperability uh it's uh it's the opposite of data sciences data interoperability enables us gives us agency over our data but it's not that easy it's uh because while we might be aligned and thinking about the importance of privacy uh we actually as affirming the brender in the book life after privacy uh says uh we are we are basically living a confessional culture so on one side privacy seems important but on the other side we are just giving it away we are just over sharing more and more so uh in this sense we could even say that privacy is a social challenge this is these are exactly the topics that we are trying to uh uh going to address uh today uh in uh in the talk and how we as developers how we can tackle this how maybe we can we can shape a solution that it's a win-win where the user experience on one side is not deteriorated but at the same time at the same time our autonomy is preserved this is in a way also aligned with what victor just said when a swarm goes into the background and we don't notice one running in the background but we should feel more free so going forward it's definitely an uncharted territory and uh here the question poses itself what can we learn also from ethereum uh by moving forward uh it i would say a lot here here are just some some of the some of the topics um and in this uh this sense uh we can see we can see first we can see the transforming power of the ecosystem this is also evident where we see this great interaction with between infrastructure and the application layer it's uh one is driving the other first there was aetherium then the rise of the depths started to dictate technological requirements which then came back to ethereum uh formulated as the ethereum's scalability problem we see we see new solutions emerging with the new solutions emerging we see new products like uh better user experience of decentralized exchanges and so forth so and in this sense also when we think of swarm we shouldn't be thinking of swarm as an isolated island uh its swarm comes alive with the application layer it's a swarm comes alive with with the ecosystem and uh sometimes you can also hear some of our team members basically saying we are all swarm and this is exactly what it uh what we mean with this now the other thing what we can learn from ethereum is that it redefines the tech stack so the news tank is joel monegro put it is can be summarized as fat protocols and thin applications it's basically a crypto services architecture uh that it's kind of likened to the microservices architecture just as a sovereign one moreover uh when we look at the device we see how the money legos as they've been called in the they find different protocols and that's how they work with each other one one amp one dab one protocol can help the other and so forth and this is very much linked to uh what it's called bring your own data it's we are witnessing a new paradigm change in the sense that applications are not any more like this self-containing silences as the applications on the iphone which holds the algorithms ui and the data no it's it has become unbundled so in the device space it's easy with my with my keys i can move from one depth to the other if i started some let's say if i some um maker um action in in one dab i can continue with my maker loan in in the other and uh vice versa however with swarm swarm naturally extends the blockchain uh in terms of data when the data there's bigger data in question when it's private data in question uh things become more complicated and we will look uh uh more into that so the new stack in this sense it's also kind of defined what if i continue with the dfi example it's we see ethereum mainnet is this fat protocol it demands a lot of collective effort it demands a lot of time a lot of development research it's not easy to do then we have the second layer we see different protocols as the mentioned maker or compound unisop etc and then on top of the svc then a plethora of all kinds of food related apps and depths and so forth and this kind this kind of stack can also very nicely translate into uh into swarm um i'll buy it with a little bit of a different uh function so at this point i need to actually make a stop and go a little bit into the topic of what is actually fair data to provide some concept context very data in a simple term could be even said like it's like digital fair trade you know when we think about fair trade uh somebody buys fair trade coffee we maybe don't know the details about it but we kind of know that okay this coffee was sourced in a more fair and ethical way and essentially meaning that uh the distribution of value is more fair that uh there's no exploitation of the individual and that human rights are protected in a similar way we can apply the concept of fair data to the online world there is one huge difference though when we buy third day uh fair trade coffee we think uh we think of maybe some people we don't know uh in let's say developing countries with fair data fair data applies to everybody who's online fair data applies to you applies to me it applies to all of us who can participate in this call so that's about fair data but now okay what does this mean uh what does this mean uh for the topic we are discussing it means that fair data can somehow is shaping itself as an emerging alternative to surveillance capitalism it's quite easy to figure out that facebook is not fair data maybe then here the question is but you know why should swarm be concerned with that uh as victor put it uh very nicely in the metaphor of the narrow waste uh swarm kind of being similar to tcp ip tcpip is neutral tcp just deals with packets of data and so is swarm however uh it's also i think we can argue that especially decentralized technology is not neutral decentralized technology does represent values and also as swarm developers we do want we do not want to recreate the same problems we do not want to recreate the same broken internet as ella has put it yesterday in the talk but uh we are highly motivated to provide an alternative so in this sense it's also important for us that we support and educate and kind of incentivize uh towards uh towards that direction now we can accelerate further data economy through the fair data stack incentives uh it's essentially it's like when we can look at swarm as the base layer uh uh as the battery's back end uh or the narrow waist on top of this layer so this would be the equivalent of the ethereum uh mainnet on top of this layer there are like various protocols uh victor mentioned some today we are speaking about fair drive these kind of protocols uh and there there can be more uh and there will be more uh can facilitate data interoperability they can strengthen privacy and they can promote ethics it's uh if we speak about here the fair data society uh ecosystem initiative it's where the tech meets the social in a way and then the third layers the third layer can be then the thin applications uh that use these data legos to build new better and even more data-rich experiences that also respect and protect human human rights so here is maybe a little bit of a visual representation and here to make it maybe things a bit more clear how does this relate to the world we are living in i will i will use the uh so-called farmer's market metaphor now victor mentioned swarm is the piping could be considered the piping in this metaphor we could say uh swarm is the physical marketplace itself is the is is the space where uh the farmers market is happening then the next layer the next layer could be the farmers market on its own which is when we look at it it's decentralized diversity helps it the more different sellers of veggies and fruits there are the better the better the more diversity is the better so um and i as a user i can go to the farmer's market i can buy the ingredients i want in my my own privacy uh essentially go home and also make the most terrible lunch you know maybe i can make like mix things together nobody would eat but it's my freedom to do it now the layer on top of it the thin applications can be considered as the restaurants restaurants on the other side they also go and source their ingredients on the farmers market so they go to this layer but they are opinionated through their menus a pizza place is opinionated a vegan place is very much opinionated so and so are also other types of restaurants now the problem that we have today is that we have only restaurants and this is this is where basically swarm comes in and this is why it's important that we also support and work together with the ecosystem now the question that poses to itself is what if there would be a protocol that actually can connect like these different uh personal data stores and at the same time leaves also space for creating creativity of the depths and the ques the answer that we see uh is uh called fair drive pair drive in essence when we speak about personal data about dev development is a digital safe space it's a it's on purpose and it can only be an ecosystem initiative it's uh it's about the diversity it's about collaboration we can only build this uh together for a quick overview there are two parts to to the fair drive project one is the protocol one is the dap i will explain more uh about both of them uh in the next slides and it can be seen as the protocol it's kind of like serving the role of the backend for developers while the dap is the personal data store for for the users at the same time uh it is designed in such a way that it's we can argue it's ethical design it's aligned with the so-called fair data society principles which are essentially about recognizing uh digital integrity of the human person but again alexi was opening the summer school with moreover fair drive as a project is designed to be a multi-ecosystem approach because here the question is if we if we say that we want to provide the best value for the user this and the problems that we face today in the world these are bigger than swarm it's uh it's also other projects are addressing it in this or the other way and it's about here also uh collaboration and connect connecting beyond the boundaries of uh swarm swan fair drive right now is a sandbox project for fair data economy it even the fair data economy if we think away the tech part uh is still not being defined as society as we've seen in the previous talks we are trying to find the solutions we are challenging the current social constructs in order to find better solutions so let's dive in more a bit like what is fair drive protocol fair dive protocol has um the goals are essentially to manage various uh permissions for depths uh uh to access data uh it's uh it's about supporting common standards like context and calendar it's uh this is not exclusive data to any of the app i would argue none of the data is exclusive to any of that it's about setting best practices how to secure the access so that in other words we don't leak the data and it's about it's giving special attention exactly for these reasons how to granting and renewing and revoking permissions it's about long-term organizing and labeling the data not just personal data but all the data so that it's not about only reclaiming the privacy but the the data can work together what i mean with this is uh in the blockchain space there is a shared understanding or shared value that uh as i mentioned before bring your own data the data belongs to the user but this is not enough it's uh it's good but yes not enough and what i mean with this it's like i can have all my data but if i have all my data stored across 100 usb keys this data is not functional for me this data cannot be reused it would be just a fact of me having the data and unusable unusable data so right now as for the fair drive protocol um as i said fair drive project started as a sandbox as an r d experimentation to connect with like-minded projects to to foster also to strengthen the relationships between infrastructure and the application layer and now we have come to the stage where we are going one level up in q3 uh relatively soon there will be the first official proposal of the protocol uh and this will also kick-start the fair drive improvement uh proposals process this will be the first uh improvement proposal and in uh church's description leading these efforts uh the fair drive improvement process is essentially a request for comments process for the fair drive and uh fair data stack so um so much for now about uh the fair life protocol the other part the other part as i mentioned is the app it's the front end it's uh it's again experimentation how how to actually provide a meaningful and quality user experience to the users because it's also the other part and this is kind of going already into the heart of the topic of today's talk uh it's about how to also grow adoption of the new paradigm not just a single ad it's about how can we make this societal change towards a fair data economy instead of a combination of surveillance capitalism and dopamine economy it's uh federalized that is being developed as a fellowship the first fellowship swan fellowship with the amazing team at bim labs and mustafa after my talk will give uh we'll give a demo where we are at now and how to easily um how to easily integrate it connect it uh to your data as also mentioned it's a fair data economy sandbox currently it builds on ferro s which is another project uh where uh where we are uh developing uh support ecosystem driven support for uh for better and easier managing of the data but as mentioned it's just the first uh personal data store uh in a fair drive protocol itself is aimed to start to enable that there can be a multitude of personal data stores because after all today we are also not using just one database different data different use cases demand different solutions and it would be quite arrogant to think that there's a one-size-fits-all solution so far drive that for the user it returns them the agency over their data it's it can be seen um as a gateway to web3 personal data stores uh and in a way it's quite a boring debt i mean usually one should not say this but uh it's a boring app with a familiar ux and it should be and what i mean with this is um i don't think that anybody bought a mac because of the finder app or anybody bought a windows pc because of the file explorer it's these these kind of apps are kind of self taken for granted uh we don't notice uh notice them but they uh for the user experience of using a computer they are essential at the same time when we think about them uh the file explorers or finders they're like a central to your uh computer they connect all the applications you have installed on your computer you see you have a pdf file there's an acrobat reader icon you double click it and it's all and it opens a pdf reader you see an mp3 file it opens it opens an mp3 player etc you see like a video file and so forth so it's something that we believe needs to exist it needs to empower the users but it's not it's not a debt that needs to be used uh over and over it's not uh where we are really in this sense uh productive another thing what i wrote here is that it needs to have familiar ux so this is important because uh as users we do have a threshold it's like in some uh in some articles or literature it said uh it's saying that um when you develop depth or no it actually says when we develop apps it's not referring to depths the gain needs to be bigger than the pain so the users need to perceive that they get from uh from an app more than uh what they need to invest into understanding and being able to use to use that particular app it's uh also another guidance is if we want to see a better adoption of the solutions that we develop there should be only one user habit changed at once and we see this also as another thing what we can learn from ethereum we see how many users drop off because they need to install metamask it's just sometimes too big of a leap that's why we believe on this front that there should be a familiar very well boring ux one that we know on the other side what's not boring is already the engaging conversations that we have there are several projects that that already use use fair drive or try or are exploring how to integrate it how these data can flow left uh left and fourth and uh this would be also here on opportunity to give a call to action if you're developing uh if you're developing uh your own dab uh pingas contact us apply for a grant we we would be very happy uh to support you all right some demo time uh just to give you a little a little uh kind of taste of where we're at so i need to stop uh this screen share and start another one uh just uh bear with me [Music] here all right so what we see here what we see here and i need to move a little bit the zoom controls because i cannot access what we see here is for those who are using hackendy uh quite familiar interface it's a markdown editor i can i can basically just write something and you know it's like it's rendering it's rendering uh the markdown on the other side i can do i can do actually a bit more so i can i can just log in to fair drive and i select my pod then i go to load files here is a bunch of files and before uh um before this talk i just created for fun uh a short markdown file uh that um that basically gives the overview of what's uh uh what's uh the content of my talk now just a second it's like again the zoom zoom is kinda interfering with uh with the access so that i switch the tabs i can at the same time i can just go to fair drive so here uh i log in here i actually prefer uh the daylight theme i go here select my data pod and again oh yeah zoom zoom zoom so so here if i let me also close this so here i can see the summer school i can i can download the markdown file it's been saved into into my uh fair drive i won't be downloading the file now because um yeah i would need to then again switch screens and all this now we are also working on uh developing a photodap so here i can also log in into the photo deck all with the same accounts uh i go to my pod and i see the picture if uh it's the only photo i have uploaded here if i go back to fair drive uh there should be also the same o so here we saw just a quick demo where we are at it's a lot of experimentation it's quite exciting and essentially dev developers can get this very quickly out of the box you can you can use it and this is also the beginning of exploring how to provide some of the back-end services to that uh dev developers in the talk in the talk after me mustafa will uh actually give a workshop and show give a hands-on example and show how how you can use it it's not it's not difficult and i encourage uh everybody everybody to try so uh let me switch now back to my slides [Music] just second all right we're back so now we got we got the overview we got the overview a little bit we saw we saw okay the fair data stack uh how we can kind of mentally perceive different layers granted there's also always the the delineations between these layers are not strict it's more fuzzy it's uh but it helps it helps us to think in terms of how we can develop and this also echoes with what previous speakers have been saying and the paradigm change uh how that developers can quickly start developing their own depths it's uh instead of when we saw at the beginnings of the ethereum every project needed and spent quite a lot of time in developing just their own crypto wallet and then then we saw um then we saw quite a lot of effort for example just went into uh standardization of qr codes for scanning the ethereum addresses like quite minor things and collectively we shouldn't be losing time on that we should we can see that we should be actually tackling this uh collectively from the start and this is why the fips the fair drive improvement uh proposals so now comes here like the slide how you can grow your depth adoption with pair drive and we are speaking here about adoption because this is quite a big pain point for i would argue everybody in the decentralized space it's not just a scalability problem it's the problem that i mentioned before uh that users don't really like applications that present bigger pain than the game and if we if we take into account the confessional culture uh that we are living in where we actually say that privacy is important but we don't care so much about the privacy uh the hurdles to adoption become a lot more apparent so essentially here we also need to have the understanding uh as as i said before we are all in this kind of together it's like we are building uh this paradigm shift it's uh we should also then be thinking how we can leverage collaboration for well mutual success and positive social impact so by by using fair drive basically out of the box developers can introduce freedom control and inter operability to their projects merging convenience with decentralization at the same time you can essentially piggyback on swarms ecosystem efforts we can uh the more there are of us the more we work together the the louder our voice then we can see network effects it's essentially the the example that i gave with the finder that so if you're creating a pdf reader you can you will be able in future to link that uh your data to the pdf file and this means that already existing users will have the option to essentially just double click on a pdf and in a new tab your that opens so and the same works uh also in the opposite way um in this sense we can also uh by through the fair drive improvement proposals we can think about and uh standards we can think about how these data legos can connect and all these can help you that also your dap is more visible in the ecosystem while also having instant access to new backend features i can totally imagine there will be uh depths that connect to fair drive linked to the projects that um victor mentioned and actually uh victor also mentioned the waggle project uh bagel project already team looked into and connected their project to fair drive so it can offer quite a frictionless experience for the developers and for for the users now moreover if you speak about uh if i touch upon again the open resource uh paradigm where victor was mentioning how easy it is to fork dabs to fork code this will be here an example of an easy recipe take something that you want to build look at look at the open source community connect to fair drive and voila you have you have a self sovereign debt respecting uh human rights respecting privacy and basically pushing the boundaries pushing pushing towards a fairer data society so what are what are the next steps next steps as mentioned is the fair drive protocol proposal uh then uh starting with that is the third drive improvement uh proposal process there will be more integrations and all this is essentially where we are working towards a production production release once we are ready to do the production release there is uh also the wider community that we we are planning to address uh and uh we start we start hopefully with bigger onboarding of users on uh onto uh onto swarm uh as for other uh other steps in this regard be sure to check out uh we will be uh this is we will be announcing uh some details already at the end of the summer school but there will be a lot more communication regarding a hackathon fair data society hackathon that will happen in the last week of october we are also planning the so-called the great data upload ecosystem initiative to get the data buzzing buzzing around so to conclude to conclude my talk uh what does future hold in in the talk right now i basically i showed only connections like this dab connecting to fair drive and it stops here but uh let's maybe let's maybe explore uh a bit uh how data interoperability can create something better if if we now mentally return to the to the uh markdown editor that we call dracula uh markdown editor uh the name it it's been basically done by the open resource on the open resource recipe we took already the open source markdown editor code we took the open source dracula theme hence the name and we connected it to fairdrive but ok we use that and maybe i can in that markdown editor i can make my notes i can make a note um in a similar way as uh for those who are maybe using uh knowledge management tools like rom research or obsidian or other other tools that are emerging i could i could write there my task or notes um organize uh organize a trip to the next devcon as a next heading it would be i would i would enter the date next uh next uh bullet point would be uh flight and i would leave that flight uh empty i would the next bullet point would be hotel i would leave that hotel empty yeah and i would save that then maybe i could open another that uh like uh you know on the previous events we we uh there was a demo of a debt called instaswarm which is about decentralized marketplaces and it's all running client-side and in privacy-centric mode that that could basically read this file and create create basically a customized customized offers uh for me just reading from the tasks that i enter them somewhere else and while i browse and maybe use their tinder like interface i show like i select i like this hotel i don't like this hotel i like these flights i like that that offering these kind of preferences could be saved back into fair drive and maybe in this way i open another app another app that can read those preferences and feed from it and create me a more personalized experience here i would also argue that doing this in the privacy of a home so to speak can actually increase the user experience because we feel more free we feel that there's no mental kung fu needed thinking like should i click on this and what will the people behind think about it what will the algorithms do who will know all these and things like that so if we think even further because we are in a decentralized space uh the idea and we see the power of uh the incentives as mentioned also before uh on the slides uh we couldn't think about that this can enable new business models if we add a if we had a crypto economics layer on it there could be if one if one dap uses uses data from the other depth maybe maybe it can in this or the other way it can compensate this as a micro transaction uh to the other one maybe maybe here we we see how it can connect to decentralized service networks that victor was uh speaking about so we we started to see how technology can start working for us how data can start working for us and with this i would actually conclude my talk here are here are some links uh test out fair drive go to fairdrive.fairdatasociety.org test out other other minidabs to see how maybe to use uh to see how it's implemented all the code is available on github um just check it out um to conclude maybe so the key takeaway is that i'd be happy for you to take home would be find your sweet spot in the fair data stack if you're a protocol development hopefully you see what the value propositions can be if you're a dub developer same thing if you're doing both again it's uh it can help you it can help you also how to form a product it can address questions like when uh as melanie was speaking about the non-profit vcs it can it's clearly that maybe the protocols i would argue they should be they need to be open free scalable also as michel was uh explaining they need to they need to foster data interoperability and therefore they actually shouldn't be really for profit they shouldn't be privatized uh but on the other side it's like you can be opinionated through creating your debt to creating your unique selling proposition to address the users maybe you create the best uh best mp3 player or start uh working with data in such a way that enriches people like people's lives maybe maybe you can connect to other decentralized service networks or start uh very simply with the api uh when men's api there uh on your own so um the other takeaway is developing your debt with fair drive is faster this is again this a house what uh also robert said uh a part of ella's talk where he said like i think it's going to take time for developing your depth so think in terms when i develop my dab where will swarm be at that time and right now uh ella ella was actually quite verbal and specific saying like don't don't work on the chunk store unless you're uh developing a protocol it can it can lower fed drive can lower your costs of uh development in this sense by being part of the ecosystem by by collaborating it can also be helpful uh to to grow your adoption because we're in this together and this is bigger than us so uh with this thank you for your uh participation and i will just say build your that transform and robert back to thank you gregor uh i don't have much uh to that uh shout out actually so um i um again i'd like to stress if there are any questions feel free to raise your hand in the zoom channel or ask me via the q a section or even on the discord channel feel free um but i think your presentation was quite clear on the motives where we're going and how we're trying to facilitate this interoperability for a fair data society and a fair data economy so maybe robert here had said these days it's been amazing talks uh by others and there was also a lot of times where the questions uh the problems of funding so uh maybe here is also again a reminder that we do have our grand school open and the projects can actually are most welcome to apply for a grant to learn about how to use fair drive or just do their own thing or contribute so yeah i'm i would just invite everybody yeah to work with us definitely if you have any questions about the procedure or the ecosystem feel free to ask us in the discord channels or even you can mail us directly also at the summer school 2021 at eastworm.org i will put the address as well in the chat