Where Do We Stand on Self-Sovereign Identity?

[Music] thank you very much and uh really uh pleased to be part of this panel and i'd say uh an illustrious panel uh really crossing the the banking community the mobile network operator community uh the government community and the technology community so really uh i'm uh quite honored and thrilled uh to be part to be part of this group overall i think this topic uh where do we stand on self-sovereign identity couldn't be a more fascinating one at this stage in the development of the market we've all envisioned that this notion of people being able to take better control of their identity uh in in a digital world is a really important one to to people across the globe it's an area that's uh developing it's not fully gelled but i think we're beginning to see the signs and signals that this is very very likely the answer that we're going to be able to see for consumers for passengers for patients and for our businesses as as we go on in time so over the next few moments um over the course of this hour in fact uh we'll address this topic i'm going to quickly share my screen and um give everyone kind of a view on on how we're going to proceed today um we do uh very much uh appreciate and and would like to see uh interactivity as we go uh we'll be looking for uh audience questions uh uh as we progress what we're gonna do we've decided to kind of lead off koti will begin with a quick address and a few slides followed by danielle and then antoine and then yvonne their perspectives on this topic where do we stand on self-sovereign identity and what are they involved in uh within within their organizations we're going to try to take roughly 20 minutes at this and to make sure that we leave time for panel discussion now what we've teed up in the panel discussion are some provocative questions that i hope everybody in the audience finds quite interesting the first what do we think the killer app is for ssi how do we get the ball rolling for people to be using this in their mainstream stream live so that'll be the first thing the second how do we get to scale how do we commercialize how do we get beyond the pilots that are occurring across the globe really right now in a number of segments and get to commercialization uh the third thing is by way of public-private partnership is it important or is it not that government the private sector begin to come together for the benefit of of national and regional infrastructure what's the evolution of ei-das and ssi and lastly really the role of big tech i do encourage uh questions we will try to address those as we go and or uh if we find more interesting questions than those that we've uh prompt up will um will will evolve um two seconds just by way of my role i'm part of mastercard have driven our digital identity service called id which is being piloted in a few places of the world and then i would point out i'm part of the trust over ip foundation which is really developing a full stack set of standards really looking at decentralized self-sovereign lastly i had founded the group called the good health pass collaborative looking at interoperability using some of these same techniques for international travel health pass so that's about me and that's about all you'll hear about me because we want to turn now to the panelists so what i'm going to do is i'm going to point to koti and she'll make a few a few remarks to begin coty hello thank you very much for inviting me today to participate in this session i feel very honored for sharing the stage with so relevant speakers and as you know i'm leading the crypto and blockchain center of excellence at santander but i'm here today because i'm sponsoring the identity commission of alastria and that has developed as a sovereign identity model and also because i'm participating in a collaborative project with other companies called alien that it's putting this model of alastair into practice i believe that most of you already know alastria but for those that are are not familiar with it alastair is a multi-sectoral association non-profit i think it's the first national non-profit blockchain association in the in the world it was set up with the aim of promoting the digital economy through the use of distributed ledger technologies and it has over 500 members from leading corporates and public institutions to small and medium enterprises and it has built a public permission network that has already over hundred nodes nodes um since austria foundation in order to achieve legally binding transactions in this network alastair parity was building a digital identity mechanism for individuals and for corporates and this model has been contributed by over 200 members not only in the technical peace but also in the legal and functional aspects and it has been built in an open source format in terms of standards and regulation it has been recently approved by une one is a spanish standardization body and probably it's the first official standardization organization that approves an identity a standard based on dlt and also we've elevated this this model to another a standardization organization like the europeans and elect and it is compliant with iaidas in terms of the levels of assurance and in terms of data protection it facilitates the compliance with the with the gdpr as this model provides a one-click data revocation process it also preserves the privacy of the user there's no personal information stored in the blockchain and what we are storing is the actions that are performed on those credentials like the issuance the registration the request of information and it's always encrypted using a double hash mechanism so it guarantees that there's no traceability of the activity of the user um also it follows the w3s standards regarding verifiable credentials and decentralized identifiers and in terms of interoperability this model has inspired the european commission in the design of the european digital identity model sif under the european blockchain services infrastructure the solution uh that they have is evolving faster than ours and we are going to follow their their developments um there are several projects and initiatives and that are following this model or that their wallets are compatible with this model such as the italics cabo verde but um i would like to get into more details of of dalian so charles if you can move to the next slide and andallian it's a a collaborative project it's multi-sector between private companies you've got some locals there uh bank of mars bankia kaiser generally in etune liver bank linea directed and the aim of this project is to put into practice alastria id model as we recognize that cell sovereign identity has benefits for all the users and and for us the companies for example for the users this solution would allow them to access services immediately providing greater control to them as they will be able to know at any moment with whom they have shared their data for the companies like santander it can improve the customer satisfaction satisfaction um if thanks to a quicker onboarding and logging reducing churn rates and the information verification costs um so dalian is a complementing the work that we have performed in alaska adding new technical elements that are needed to operate like the wallet and all the necessary pieces to integrate the business applications with the blockchain last year we developed a proof of concept to demonstrate this technical viability and now we are in the middle of the development of the mvp that we expect to have ready by mid-year and last but but not least we have the honor in this project to count with observers from the spanish public administration as we believe that including both private and public sectors is the way to enable sufficient scale of adoption of a digital id system like this one in dalian we believe that collaboration is key so we are open to to welcome new participants thanks charles cote thank you and your point about a collaboration i could not agree more it's just absolutely critical in this field and companies and uh governments uh that have this dna are really going to be successful so i i really appreciate it thank you daniel i'd i'd like to turn to you for for for your address so so the floor is yours danielle okay thank you very much good afternoon everybody uh i'm danielle de soy i'm convener of the european self-serving identity framework within the european blockchain partnership and that is as we might have learned another session in this conferences or in previous conferences the european blockchain partnership is a partnership of the 28 member states and of the commission plus norway and liechtenstein that working together on several blockchain part uh projects mainly public driven and political organizations that want to collaborate and one of the aspects that we do is next to building an european service infrastructure which cutty also explained also inspired by the things that are already happening in in europe and spain and particularly we try to build a service infrastructure that extends and can support cross-border use cases so several countries are working together to establish those kind of things because most public sectors encountered that the use cases were rapidly extending their borders and the main added value was in the internet collaboration one of the use cases that we tackle within that uh european blockchain partnership which was of course in my review but also many view the most interesting is was how that blockchain could be an enabler a facilitator for the new forms of identity and therefore we established that use case but it's more than use cases mainly core services how we can support a european framework on ssi and that's where the european self-sovereign identity framework established some two years ago also inspired by different aspects and we try to stay in cookie how can europe facilitate this game how can public sector help in the development of good ice kind of things based on that blockchain infrastructure it evolved not only technical functional but it's also a big legal question and a governance question so the european commission together with the member states are tackling those diverse technical and legal questions to ensure that a new paradigm that no possibility of decentralized identity can be used in that context because you know as you know ai does is reviewing we are looking at new forms identity but how can this be supported and what kind of role does public sector need to do that we are now currently working at the version two of that system so we released last year version one of appsy and sf that was mainly a demonstrator get to know the technology get to know where the constraints are get to know where the things are and then now we are working at a more stable version version two now the european commission the member states are not building the entire ecosystem yeah it's something that we do in collaboration so i think this panel is a perfect illustration of those kind of things we collaborate with last year but we also collaborate with people like yvonne from validated id because the several components need to be built we are providing within as if as the the layer the under layer that ensures the trust the trust framework but what the user chooses as a wallet how does legacy system interact that is up to the market up to the different national things so the sf is more a framework but also a way to collaborate with different parties we are now currently working on version two and now trying to implement this with the first parties so what we have called to early adopters are now working with it trying to see how this fit if this model is okay does it really integrate so that we can readily expand it and of course this is not only european needs to be global so we also looking at the mainly things how does other parties and in the world look at those kind of things always to enable that citizen to take control of his data yeah in a secure way in a trustworthy way but we'll implement also regulations that will also protect the sentence we also looking at but maybe that's also built but we highlighted in the next session fc and ebp well we also check how we can link because we are now currently looking at public sector driven how can we collaborate more integrally or private parties can also be a part of that infrastructure yeah so that will be the next challenge and of course the challenge that we have how to link and integrate with existing networks like alastair like trust over ip that needs to be it doesn't need to be in this decentralized world one big thing but at least we need to have more interoperability and more agreements so that's a bit an overview for what asif stands and of course keep in mind it is a part of the ecosystem that we want as public sector to enable those kind of things danielle thank you very much and i i really appreciate the point as well about interoperability and and the importance of of of looking as well to collaboration with that interoperability i think it's really quite key and the extension around the globe with a center from europe where much of this is quite advanced i i think is very key so really appreciate that i'm going to now share my screen and uh we're going to invite um antoine uh to uh to make a few remarks so antoine it is all yours and i'm not sure about the other panelists i can't hear antoine sorry uh yeah i switched my mic um hello everyone thank you charles i'm the leader of the orange business services program about blockchain we are working since five years in a round on a blockchain use cases in particular for me i'm searching the use case we can implement for our b2b customers so we have already some projects in blockchain we have no cp which is a spinner for foreign to manage commercial paper which is treasury bonds around between big companies or communication are certified on a orange.com website and we operate we are we use blockchain on the field to track the fiber wheel on our on for fiber deployment in france but now since three years uh we are focused on sets of rain identity uh big why because we think it's it's a settlement to build the internet of trust to see large network of blockchain where each people is identified with a legal legally recognized identity so if you if you want to continuously thank you chance so we have a big project since one years now uh it's a co-innovation project with akdatab which is a consortium of 30 uh company around agriculture on our goal is to deploy sets of an identity for french farmers there is around 250 frozen farmers on farms in france so it's it will be a huge project and the main goal is to protect the data of the farmers so with this identity they could manage their consent on data and we can track who is the owner of the of the data and once this identity will be deployed we will imagine with them a large amount of use cases uh like uh administrative declaration exchange or bills with their suppliers a lot of things they also can use it in digital world but also in real world if they go in a in [Music] you know suppliers they can show the smartphone with the clear code and so they can be identified with a sovereign identity in the real world um it's very important to have a collaboration between public and private on this kind of subject to have a legally recognized identity and for this project it's the ministry of agriculture in france which injects the data in the set sovereign identity so we also compare several technical solutions we and what i explained to my customers now it's not what uh what the solution what the technical solution to use but what is a network you won't use and the most advanced network for us in europe is a industrial network so we decided to use illustria to implement this project in the next month thank you charles antoine thank you thank you very much and i and i really like the notion of the use case because it's not the typical one where you think about um opening up the bank account or proving that you're over 21 in a in a bar it's really a fascinating use case thank you thank you for that um lastly i'd like to turn to yvonne yvonne for your address please the floor is yours hello first of all i'm very glad to be part of this of this panel let me say a few words about about myself so i've been around on the digital identity space for the let's say last 20 years i feel old when i say that statements but it's it's a reality and and i'm i'm co-founder and ceo of validated idea company was founded in 2012. our main business is digital signature but we have been very active on the cell sovereignty space since i would say last last three years we are part of the decentralized identity foundation we are sovereign part of the sovereign network also we participate in in alaska with uh my colleagues i have been saying we're also part of we also participate on uh on the opsi on the fc project together with anil suleian and and many others and and for us i would say our vision on ssi from the beginning was that interoperability is is a key i think that's very important to remark that it's a very good job that is done on the community i would say that the standards on ssi will be something very important necessary in order to remove like a global adoption and global adoption on on that and i'm following these basis we have developed our own ssi service which is called which is called b chain that nowadays are and we are we are payloading in in different places like in banks like bbva or or kashabang some public administrations so we are we are part of the of the ssi ecosystems i would say that one of our special flavors let's say or specific focus is that as the ssi is something that is emerging and it's something that is being constructed by many people and it's a it's the before there are some gaps in there because there's something that needs to be to be to be to be done and it takes time and one of our specific tasks is we are trying to creating bridges to to make things easy in order to have ssi adoption so we have been working in different projects in in in that sense so we have been part of the of the iaidas bridge project which is a project also which is from the european commission that is trying to build technology that allows using ssi uh reusing the trust that we have on the either oei certificate so yeah these credentials right so while disease regulation is not being adapted which is on the way in order to use verifiable credentials we have created this breach in order to to allow these this this kind of things and also we have uh collaborated on creating the first implementation of the sentences then the foundation of the of the open id protocol supporting ssi that means that the most used worldwide identity protocol which is used as a google connect where you connect this kind of things also now supports connecting with with ssi credentials which i think uh it's a very important thing in order to to make things easy for for adoption and the last thing that we're working on in different projects is is building we have already a wallet and now we are we are building a wallet that is able to um to to work with different with different ledgers in order to because at the end of the day i would say that uh users and people that's interested in use cases is not so much interested and if there is blockchain or there is a ledger or there is another ledger people is about having services and making things in a different way that it's it's happening nowadays so i think technology is very important but it's very important that we try to to to deliver use cases on things that people may make value and this is not just about technology it's about technologies about regulation it's about privacy it's about this this kind of things and this is the kind of of things that we are we're addressing and in validating yvonne thank you very much and i think the one point you've made about bridge i i i just have to believe is so important really being able to bridge from the world of today to the world that it will be is is critical thank you for that one thing as i know there's a question that come in uh would you be willing to share the link to your wallet app so that may be something for you to think about and and if you're supportive to to include it in the the chat and uh but okay good thank you i i uh whoever had asked that question i i think we'll appreciate that thank you i'd like to now turn uh turn the table a bit to some of our questions and i'd like to start with this topic of of ssi and and the killer app i think we all know it's a bit of a loaded question because this is all about managing our digital life uh as we go many things that we're able to do uh with a with a a digital identity wallet um but are there applications categories of the applications or sectors that we think will propel the state of the market forward and i'd like to start maybe to kick that one off uh avon with yourself um to maybe your views and then i'll invite the other panelists as well to to really add in we'll try to take about equal time five to seven minutes on each of these points so yvonne maybe your view how would you answer that what's the killer app yeah thanks charles i think it's a very key question right so i think if we look about all the ssi adoption worldwide i would say in many cases what we have is kind of pilots of proof of concepts but but we do not have yet a massive adoptions or a lot of people using that and and i think we have now we have we are in a chicken neck problem right so because we we are in a multi-site market where you need for one side stakeholders that issue credentials to users then you need these users to have these credentials and then you need places where you can use that connection for do these kind of things and as there are no people issuing credentials there is no people consuming credentials and there is no user having crisis so we have we are in in kind of a chicken problem that it makes things a little bit more difficult so i think there are different initiatives around but in my opinion asking answering to this specific question i think that now with the kobe we have a very good opportunity to have the this skill application because we need a killer application to make a um ssi explore right so once we have a use case when we can apply ssi thing a lot of use cases will will come around and with covet it looks like it may be this killer application because there is a necessity in there so because we have it we need for in order to not just for travel but if you would like to go to a soccer stadium of your i mean you will need to to prove somehow that you are able to this kind of things and this is the kind of problems that ssi is solving so if we look around there are many initiatives in these topics so different countries doing these kind of things there are some pilots ayata for instance is making yata travel plus pilot the european commission has launched the the green press and the wall health organization is also launching a pilot some are pure ssi pilots let's say or approach some other i like to say they are ssi on the way right because some people is making some kind of shortcuts because we need to have something in place in in some time but i think it's following the ssl principles but the good thing is that um for the user perspective that would be the ssi experience right so you will have somehow a credential that you will will will will exchange with somebody online or in a face-to-face and you don't like to to share all your information you just would like to share that you are able to enter in that stadium or to travel or maybe kind of things so this is a typical ssi use case and i think as as this will be a reality because it's a huge pressure on that so then you it can be a killer application that make that all other use cases around ssi and maybe uh become a reality great yvonne really a good point and it's one that certainly myself have been been looking at uh ssi technology really represents uh probably the way to solve this problem this would be an incredibly hard problem to solve any other way i'd like to open it up uh danielle yvonne either points of view on on yvonne's point or um are there other killer apps well i think i agree with ivan as we already discussed this case uh also in the european context it is an opportunity because if you look at the the key uh problem that we have with those credentials like those medical credentials vaccination ratio it would be perfectly fit the only thing but maybe i'm not brave enough to do that yes yeah is that case the do you want to do that the first real great ssi case where things could be happening or could go wrong and this is a delicate matter you you already entered the space with medical data which is the most sensitive aspect yeah so maybe but that again maybe i'm not too brave to that we should look also to the other cases that are more less sensitive to do that but you need something yeah because people are using proof of concepts but they are not entering the real production phase and of course that is what yvonne clearly mentioned the chicken of egg ssi will be interesting if you have multiple things if you have all your data and use it in different sectors and everything then it will be able yeah but before we reach out to that it needs to have a yeah another level what we are now looking at more is maybe you'll be having at the first stage maybe more domain specific um use cases of implantation yeah where a sector or business domain agrees on things and implements those kind of sectors we see interesting projects like in in germany where they want to have an hotel check-in and they combined every potential company that is related with that try to configure that use cases in the european uh aspect we're looking at so on social security you put all the actors together and then they start to implement and you get a very specific domain specific implementation but that could be maybe the first step to a representation and then we need to look of course how cause those kind of solutions go further but you need to the necessary agreements on that daniel thank you cote it looked like you had your hand up maybe some comments what does your crystal ball say and there was also a question about university deployment diplomas what are your views well i i agree with my colleagues and i see that in the short term and that it's going to be massively used to avoid having so many passwords as well also i believe that it's going to be very useful for validating studies professional experience and also for applying to online financing for example and link to that to online financing in the longer term i see south korean identity as a killer app for um for trading with digital assets uh linked to the cbdc's to the central bank digital currencies currencies and we defy so i think it's a very very important piece for decentralized finance uh imagine for example talking about uncolored collateralized loans if we could have a credential saying that a that you are a good a good a payer right that you are going to pay your loans on time so i think that that could be the killer gap in the in the future right cody thank you antoine any views on this one yes from our part-time on b2b use cases and i think uh there is a lot of use case very interesting in b2b and we see it in the world of farmers and farmers and it will be probably easier to have a critical mass of users on b2b because uh for my part on like the term it's already created the ecosystem and we involve a lot of partners in running times so farmers will be able to use sovereign identity with a lot of suppliers and administration and so on if we works well so if it simplifies our life for administrative tasks i think it will be a success if we if it's too difficult but uh i hope not uh we reject the thing it's uh we we need really to to create something which uh simplify the life of people i think this this is the main the main case success because of the farm farmers are not necessarily geeks so we have a challenge to simplify the use of sexual genetic identity it's really putting the technology below the covers making it super simple yes antoine thank you i'd like to jump off to the next question and it is quite related which is really how do we scale and commercialize beyond current pilots a lot of great work how do we get to critical mass and it is related to both pull on the application but it may also relate how to go to market and i'm wondering koti maybe maybe you could begin and and um and and and talk to that and and and by the way there was a question uh directed particularly to you about how do you find agreement between companies that are competitors between yourselves banco santander and uh gexa bank for example so maybe you could think about addressing this notion of collaboration and is that as well a key factor in commercialization getting to scale okay thanks uh charles so i i see that there are different requirements that are needed in order to drive a success and massive adoption the three more critical ones are first the interoperability that we've already talked a lot about it no so there should be a standardized a mechanism to share and verify data across borders that enables a full interoperability among different technical identity solutions i used to say that this is like having tons of mushrooms appearing now it's like it's like the um the thing that everyone is looking at a digital identity but there are different solutions so there should they should be interoperable between each other so we need something comparable to the w3ec in this way secondly the cooperation between the public and private sectors to scale the ecosystem which is i think obvious we all agree on that and third governance a governance that regulates the ecosystem and these standards and there are other factors that are more obvious but are also important a one that has to be a cross cross a sectorial so open to any business that wants to use it with their customers and and that's needed to achieve uh market penetration and that's why in italian for example we've got companies from different sectors we we were in the in that question and talking about kaiser but we also have to get an agreement with with repsol right um then uh we also need it to be established a legal and regulatory framework so um so the solutions are recognized by the uh by the different authorities uh for example in terms of anti-money laundering and when you are identifying the clients um it has to be inclusive so as i said before i think it's going to be key to operating the digital economy so you we must ensure that anyone can benefit of using this identity and very important here it has to be supported by a compelling and positive commercial model to drive adoption across the private sector and so there should be initiatives for its development and for promoting its use among uh among this sector i'm on the private sector this is this is tricky because uh i mean we don't want to create a data market right and start buying credentials of the users and things like that so that's tricky and we have to establish a a way that we can compensate some of the companies for um issuing credentials that that they have to encore in a cost for for getting that data right so i think that's going to be tricky and it's part of of that getting to agreement one with each other and and lastly i we always forget that that it's the user experience it has to be super appealing easy convenient to use uh we have to focus on high value use cases for for the citizens and and to ensure that they feel that this is trustworthy that it's secure so that's i think one of the things that users value the most uh and regarding that collaboration between private companies in our case in italian it's uh i i think it's quite easy i mean i'm surprised of that uh we are all citizens right so when we work in this type of projects we are also thinking of ourselves uh in an ecoist way like what do you want to have what's the digital identity you want to use for what and how so so we are working on on that on the best user experience because we are going to be the the the users and and this is about creating standards infrastructures and so we are not here uh discussing about the the business case each one of us is going to build our own business places on on top of this uh on top of this infrastructure on this ecosystem and and there is where we are going to compete really fascinating and it it really brings to mind a thought i know i've had which is almost this notion in an ssi model of a of an issuer a holder and a verifier i i think collectively you brought up a number of points that are almost this fourth element of a governance authority of a way to deal with regulatory matters market making economic matters disputes um you think about this notion of tech migration from the old world uh to the to the new world it almost begins to bring up that that sort of notion and and an ability to almost bring collaboration to life right the orchestra conductor if you might right we've got the instruments there now we we need to bring it together but i i i ask maybe if any of the other panelists have a view on this topic how do we scale and commercialize from here is if anyone has any other points well i think katie is right there you need new business models if you try to apply the current models that we have on and maybe it's also related to your last question how do big players come with a monopoly or a strong centralization or control of data this model doesn't work and we don't want to do that yeah so you need to rethink on other things and you will be having more collaboration and people will need to think about okay how can we monetize those kind of things because that's important the gains are for people that are verifying data not for the ones that are issuing credentials right they don't get uh paid so we need to rethink those kind of things that will not be easy but that's the only way that we need to do that and we need also to think okay if we scale up how can this be this things that started in spain or in other countries and uh is evolving in europe how can this be also be scaled in euro and in a global context with the same values of course because here we put clearly from in europe that citizen in control that we preserve his integrity is his personal uh sovereignty yeah we need to be sure that i if this grows globally that the same values also apply to that so the government's model if you apply also to dermatocratic values yeah it will be a different different a difficult case but we need to be sure that that is also covered great danielle thank you um listen i'd like to maybe move on and talk a little bit about this notion of uh a public-private partnership uh the evolution of of e.i das and and and ssi i think i think we've heard the points from the panelists uh as we've gone and on and i'm wondering perhaps the the view of the view of panelists is is this a critical matter um is it is it critical uh within the european community how critical is that collaboration public private outside the european community and and the view on that uh can government do it all um can the private sector do it all um and if we agree that we've got to come together between public private how would that how was that done um danielle maybe to lead off as as you're doing some work in this field now it's clearer uh from the things that i already said the essential i the success factor of this is the public uh private uh collaboration right because use cases the most added value is indeed when you go across sector or you even go across border of in combination of those kind of things so you need to have something like that of course it is also a difficult matter and in my personal opinion i think government can do a bit of facilitating this aspect and also support those kind of things we have as government a lot of credentials that can be transformed to credentials that your citizens can use in cross-sector so as the government puts this first step to say okay we can give you that credential that you can use in your own way with whatever you want then maybe we can also create that no next to that of course we can also help as governments to see how we built the necessary infrastructure the common things that nobody likes to build and it's difficult to build and that's something that the public sector can help but of course that roads if you want to call them need to be driven so private partners needs also to engage in that and the last part that the government also can play a role in combination whatever is of course we need to see how the regulation of these aspects can be managed but we cannot build everything so the end user solution the interaction with other body even if we built the under layers need to be in an active collaboration with software solution providers but also businesses that banks and other ones that will use those services so that is a big challenge that we have i think in my personal opinion again that europe is also very uh facilitating for that that we have a tradition to stay look at things at the public and private that we are equal partners and through the best things for the citizens so that is it needs to be an integral part of that uh of that model and ssi so i don't see that any sector in itself can do that alone so you need to do that in an open collaboration for the good of the settlements danielle there was a question from the audience uh really about the idea this is a very a very precise question about when we start when do we start seeing uh eids issued as verifiable credentials when do we uh when do we start seeing this fit within e.i gas right now indeed sorry um there was a part i forget as indeed you have public privacy and within that regulation indeed the europe either is important we did a study where also ivan was mentioning that he did the technical part we did an extended study about okay how can the current ui does regulation be used in for the ssi context and we see that in short a very short term you can do a lot within that regulation but of course now currently um there is a revision going on from the aida's aspect to see okay how can we transform that regulation so that is more future proofed and it's also combined with the new either thinking about the new european eid uh identity in both cases so in the revision and the european digital id the ssi is inspiring a lot yeah you see that concepts on decentralized identity are currently also revised uh maybe also put into that so that will help also the transformation of that context you will see that the same ai stress levels high level assurance and all those kind of things can be applied also to eid credentials yeah so within the fc we're also looking at how can the eids the base identities if you call them also issued a verified credential we call them verified identities they are mainly the cause but you can have multiple in this model there's also the power i can be a spanish citizen but also belgium citizens and all is credential relate so that will be also potentially a killer app that uh those credentials will be added and then you go even further based on those kind of issues then you have multiple credentials issued and all to your wallet and you can use it so that is an evolution that is currently ongoing and we'll hope to see in the next months years uh the results of those kind of things i will give also the ecosystem some stability on the regulatory field great thank you antoine yvonne or koti any other thoughts on this topic of public private partnership i would say that with that on the previous question i think that many of the discussions we are having here is usca driver right so it depends on the use case right so you think out for instance the business model it will be in my opinion completely dependent on the on the use case and i would say the same for the public private collaboration it will depend on the use case how will be this kind of collaboration but as danielle pointed i think in many use cases maybe probably the most this public private key collaboration would be necessary because if you think about the verifiable the identity of the ss identity in most of the cases you need the first verifiable credential which daniel has explained is this verifiable id which in the most cases this credential will be issued by a government or by a public administration somehow at least here in western because it is normally the kind of entities that handle this this process but also we need to think that the other way around also because public administration has a lot of integrations to consume credentials between all of them with within their networks but in many cases for many use cases of the citizens you need to provide credentials coming for the private entities to the public administration for instance very typical coming here to the county business that i need to prove my bank id uh my bank id account to the public to a public administration and doing that nowadays in a digital way is very complex because there is no credential coming for the bank and there is no way to consume that for the public administration so i think this kind of collaboration would be in both directions so public of course public administrations will issue credentials that will be consumed by the private sector but also i think it will be the other way also i mean i would like to present my credentials to public administration with ssi without having to bring papers or do things like i need to do the less and i think ssi will be a very disruptive in in in this kind of uh collaborations great i'm playing here clay weaver with danielle and also because it's uh what we see we need a root of uh trust and uh in uh ninety percent of cases will be uh from uh from public and uh but publix have only one part of this one of the information for a lot of use case and we have to to merge uh a lot of claims uh to to be able to complete a complete use skills so transfer an identity with it people can prevent actor con works just maybe also to add to that because the current solutions that we have i you know that governments can link data source and authentic sources together but you cannot do that with a private sector you cannot link internally behind that a private sector to a public sector company or registry so this model is i something new put to set this under control and then he can manage as many links that he wants you don't need to bother with too complex linking between a bank company or a bank registry and a government university uh even in belgium we are a complex government it's very difficult to link what we have at the federal government and the video government and interchange your data and maybe also you don't want to do that as a sentence you don't want that behind your back data isn't a change without you knowing you know to show this model it's also about i uh antoine mentioned that the simplification of certain process yeah it will be more exemplified if the arrange itself but at this current state it's only paper worthless paper where you cannot adjust any trust well good let's uh let's maybe move on i i want to maybe take a a quick quick view and there was actually a question that had come in and this is really related to big tech but i'd like to take the audience question which was will this beautiful ssi allow me to get rid of all the all the added noise we have now in web 2.

0 from facebook from youtube or will we end up with the same thing are we going to find big tech uh coming to bear and dominating here or do we truly get collaborative and and we start getting a better better digital life um maybe antoine your quick views and then we'll turn to koti on this one i think uh self-serving identity is built to to get back the data to the users so if i want to connect to services i don't have to ask to google or facebook to give my data to another services i give my data in with a direct link to the services and i don't know what will be the reaction of facebook on google on instance of an identity because it's some kind of risk of the on the data they collect to on earth but uh other big tech ever will be probably a big role on it and i think to microsoft particularly for b2b because microsoft for a big part of us we use a login password on a pc it's managed by an active directory of microsoft and i think there is a big market for for them to link uh such surveying identity with the world of company identity uh we those use days but but really the south serenity is build to protect or data as citizen we are it's we are able to to manage who see it on who will use it and not google or facebook maybe your views on this yeah so so i think that um social um social companies like i mean facebook instagram twitter and so would be as other companies issuers and service providers in this ecosystem i mean our identity is form of different attributes and some of them are related to our social networks right so in this case think of the example of twitter one team to verify the identity of a famous uh soccer player and having this stick that it's verified and he's the famous football player and not someone else trying to to steal his identity so they could use this um these credentials um to to verify that it's a who this person is saying as well as they could issue credentials about my email address but if we think of the role of big techs like google and microsoft for example ibm and i believe they could play a crucial role in operating infrastructures in operating the networks and also providing technical mechanisms to prevent security failures and even enhance the security in the devices because if we are thinking of wallets that are restoring our credentials in a mobile phone a security is critical and and the weak piece is a mobile phone right um also they could facilitate identity recovery processes so the the user can choose for example to use google and to have all the the credentials encrypted as a backup as a backup system so i if i lose my mobile phone i don't have to go over to all my issuers and ask for the same credentials again i mean google could provide me an encrypted um copy of them right so i mean those could be some of the roles that they could that they could play cody thank you i'm uh i'm sensitive now to time we have four minutes and uh i gotta tell you a fascinating topic i really appreciate as well all the comments from the panelists and the questions coming in from the audience and and we'll try to do our best in very very very rapid fire some some quick answers koti there was a question that came in what dlt is uh alastria id model based on so currently it works with any ethereum uh protocol so versus quorum and so and it's been adapted to be used as well with hyper layer fabric okay that's really really really super uh second question a lot of did methods have come up in the last couple of years how do you see interoperability across these methods danielle your view very quick on this one that is all of course a challenger you have a very evolving market we see a very interesting solutions also new protocols people are now also working on things that even doesn't need a big ledger you your personal ledger so it needs a bit stabil stabilizing the next aspect but that come to version two will be very important so i hope that in the next months we get some more stable thing and we need to work constantly work on interoperability right there will be new things that evolve but they need to be interval with each other yeah so okay great we've got a few other points here but i'm just wondering in in wrapping up uh and unfortunately there's a few things we won't have time for my panelists uh they're that are involved any other final points that you'd like to bring up or or to uh clarify antoine starting with you very very quickly 30 seconds yes yeah i think it will be a clearly a revolution if we successful as a critical mass of users and it's we are what we are trying to do in the next months and years great thank you yvonne so i would say we are a very relevant moment of time for ssi it's been in in the round for for a while but i think we need to jump from some theoretical or some small pilots to to more amazing use cases i think we have the basis but we need to make this the jam all together i think we are a good path but it needs to be to happen in the following months okay yes ivan said i mean this is the hot topic right now but i would encourage all companies and governments to collaborate even more because i i think that's the the key requirement and we all have experts in our in our companies that can help too to build this all together great and daniel okay so as closing it's not about only about technology it will be also about governments about regulation if you have to have that ssi principles putting use in control we need also to think how to protect its citizens how to have that very aspect of data exploitation asymmetrically organization and those kind of things how can we tackle those kind of things if not technology will be interesting but it will be implemented in a whole other way that we thought it would be so we need to keep that in mind and that is also something the government can play an important role in this thank you danielle i heard four words uh through the course of this and to keep it simple i heard the word collaboration early on from kotti very important i heard from danielle the word interoperability really key i heard from antoine the point of simple simple simple for the user most people are not tech geeks and then lastly um you know i i heard uh from from danielle the word bridge uh being able to bridge from from here to there i'd also say that commercialization making this relevant and and working public private is probably pretty key with that victoria i turn to you thank the panelists and the audience great session today [Music] you