Larry Salibra | Building apps that can't be evil | CrossLink Taipei 2019

[Applause] but out was easy and time to go vo England tiny I waited to go to the presentation with me to some ETF names on what time walks sorry to go Wendy live at SEMA Show when like stop all the time that's like fire-pot agree Montana hi my name is very silly i first to tell you a little bit of myself i am the founder of new internet apps you know that was it's building a new browser for apps that can be evil previously i was one of the original core developers at block stack so first island community to occur in 2014 and join the team full-time 2016 and i helped to build the website browser explorer 11 developer tools I'm also the cofounders of the big mining association of Hong Kong so that was something we started about five years ago I want to talk a little bit about our 10 death so first we're going to talk a bit about problems with the current web then we're going to go on and talk about some principles of canopy evil apps like what does that really mean after that we're gonna give you a little bit of an introduction to block stack authentication in storage and then we're going to walk through sort of hands-on for those of you that haven't appears building your first block stacking happen first of all I see a show of hands here I sort of blocks out before okay not a lot of people who here's a developer developer with which language javascript' recent ran something else something else and Colin Oh Hollister Adia plays the - so we've some pot pie comments and Colin developers that's uh pretty good put your crowd Brust I can trust go okay so we have a good representation of a bunch of different languages here so first I want to talk a little bit about the about the current web so this is what it looks like when you visit a website to get it typed indeed if you hear we're sort of looking at my accounting provider evil books you go to evil books and eBooks calm and you've entered that consume your house that you paint Bob $10,000 when you do that all this information sort of like flies in there to the cloud it goes to all these different servers these boxes here at the bottom so we've got servers like the server will run by Eagle books you sort of assume that when you type some information into Eagle books website that it's going to go to their server I think most users missing that but we don't assume is that like that information potentially could go to a whole bunch of different other companies you may not even have heard of those serve the well-known ones like on Facebook there's also some other ones like like the Jake JavaScript C and the winter jQuery alpha Marriott or one package or perhaps your foster was also as all to Google so it's pretty pretty depressing situation if you're looking to script ID with an interior privacy and we were looking at my looking at my favorite I didn't like sort of airline points what's my favorite website the points guy before they did the revamp it can the page including the homepage made over 500 requests to something like 50 different posts so it's not very good for harmonicity there I'm obsessed your liquid where we are today we can take a look at some popular uh my calming software that I use I'm just actually not QuickBooks this is waiting wave accounting and you can see that it makes 137 requests for assets that are not hosted on their own server and actually two of them are there to the competitor which I thought was pretty into it so that's also kind of kind of a question they want I think about switching economy providers billion new york times which is a had funded paper that everybody knows about it's even worse one of the funny things is when I was I was lucky statistics couple days ago when I visited the first visited QuickBooks to see how they wear it uses my own accounting software the net is is there are times and this is what I saw I saw there's a few had from QuickBooks at the top of it so so QuickBooks the company that is I'm supposed to trust my financial information team has told the world's most famous newspaper that Larry med visited probably used the software they put it on the front page now maybe only I can see that but that that's information to any any script potentially inside a tweets they know kind of make me feel comfortable um so so serve in the club Logitech project that you could assist down we sort of like to think about apps anyway and we called kami evil so so Google is very famous for saying I mean there's a corporate policy they should try not to be evil issued don't be evil don't do things that could be evil our view is that you should never as an app developer put yourself in a position where you can do evil things to your customers it's sort of the way to put it is it you shouldn't be saying there be like hey you were not this shouldn't be a choice we think that like we can sort of build technology and put together solutions that make it possible for app developers to make apps that can be evil and then it gives customers sort of the ability to run some software that ensures that they can people so when we talk about can't and evil or really talking about is crossed minimization and I sort of stole this terminology from Eric's tape oh so you may know that he played the said classic across pronunciation which is like how can we have the minimal amount of like trusted third parties and then I'm allowed trust to use a system so I serve an example of I like to think about it it's like when you go to the store and you buy any camera right the Hammers made by a company music product once you buy that Amer you can do nobody law with it the hammer company doesn't know what you're doing with a hammer like the hammer company can like turn off the ability to take on nails you don't have to trust a hammer company once you've bought the products it's yours and just trust you of your own ability to use it you're also when you're a marine this hammering you're not telling you're not telling other companies digger hammering things right it's just something you do sort of the privacy of your own home and so that's really I think what a what a world of trust minimization looks like with apps is we can simply take apps back to me the time that they ran in our computers buffman boxes to the store and like once we bought the piece of software no one really knew we're running it they could provide updates to us and be updated but there wasn't sort of this like constant web there was tracking us and trust minimization is ultimately live in a decentralized so we think about atheria we didn't do everything that dream does by running some software on one computer but we couldn't do was we couldn't do it and trust me my way I couldn't could have built a theory on my topic on my sequel database fatality outside was running at my computer and that would have been fine but the reason that during these interesting is because it's right to sort of provide mr. layer of structure in a way there's a trust minimize where you're not having to trust the developers they can't deflect on your app with your building building now which is a whole bunch of benefits Jim you talk about too much because most of you know but the ability centers resistance I'm sort of this idea that you can use an app without being too flatulent I think is very very important the ability to take your data and we're good to different apps I think it's something that really like to see you living here have a lot of benefits I'm also as you know the if owning your own honey controller that's also very important so look we do we're building a we're designing a can't collapse so first first thing is it's a design for the user first put yourself in that user Tremont they paid like what would I colored I want this have to behave look I wasn't thinking about like market conditions or like technical constraints like what what I was a user what would I want to know so let's apply that to something like Facebook if you were building Facebook or Facebook Messenger the user when they're talking to their friends they probably wouldn't want what they're saying to their girlfriend broadcasts the rest of the world they'd probably be really happy to know that the Facebook employees can access these messages pretty easily like just not not even just more than any of them can't product managers engineers so that that's something you think about your genuine product they say what would you use a lot so what would they expect they wouldn't expect that they would they would hope that they can talk to their friends in a way that other people and see and then no one else prevent them together Oh try to figure out anything designing apps so that you're not you're not sort of us as their party you're not a single point of failure so so I think I think one of the bigger companies to do that does this crisis as well is Apple in some cases they like to say like hey we don't we don't want your data and they're in a pretty business to do that if they sell hardware devices so I think that I think that we can try to figure out at least a small tip that lets us sell the software that we want people to run but I don't wait a bit like we can't like we're not between them and what they're trying to do and I'm the principal sort of the users should only with the parties that they think they're interacting with so when the users type in your website they probably assumed that like they're talking to me like you're at calm once they they don't know is there they don't expect to be talking to all these other companies in never heard of I just saw a social media product launch today and he that's something I'm not gonna say the name but it's basically like a social it's just to be a social social sharing social things app for private social events as you can see what your friends are doing where they are what activity today maybe maybe CA they're going sailing maybe they're at a party and went to read that privacy Terms of Service and I basically said that we collect all of your chats we collect all of your locations we collect all of all of your calendar on all these different things how do we collect it we store it but I'm going to be stored we give it to all of our vendors and not only do we give it to all of our vendors but we also give it to other people in semi announce in an anonymous Informer you can't get anything basically so I think that's that's something that users wouldn't expect so that's something about when you design these apps and so what can you actually give you can keep the business logic in the browser so when we started the web we had to make our business all secured servers on the mountains to JavaScript sort of single page apps you can do a lot of that business positive browsers running on clients and feeders as opposed to our own service you should also store data user storage and users should only have to get interact with the Apple origin so if you need to send data back and forth to the servers you can do that to your own origin it's like where you're serving the app from and if you need to talk to a third party for whatever reason for some back-end sort of processing computation you can do that through your origin right that way that way you're at least responsible for the relationship between the user and the third parties I suppose delay giving putting the user in a position way with a party don't even know so if some country steps are make sure all your images totient and fonts are on your server and not being linked off about N equals four years don't do these cookies cookies send out dropping me there whether or not you as a developer actually asks them to paint remover at user you can use something like global storage and you can write some code to send a token that sort of suggests we redirect source with bad practice users type in a certain name that I click on a certain link they don't expect to be popular browsers are hijacked and directed at three or four different single sign-on the rioters a sort of bad practice again clients I encrypt your user data so if there's if you don't need to use it or or perhaps you don't know that people like the system data are like your friends of your user you can protect that data from your own nitrogen client-side encryption it's pretty easy to be chased you can also store data in places you use so we'll talk about they do that so now we're going to talk about blocks at often storage since most of you don't know about block stack I'm going to try to do a little bit of a introduction I wasn't planning to do so block stack is a sort of a napkin system for centralized apps block stack takes a very different approach to decentralized apps a 13-person block text view is date block teens are really expensive and they're really slow and so we should use the block teens as little as possible we should try to keep most of the data and business logic off of block chains to be possible and sort of that this makes them more scalable they're also more close to the alliance with users expectations most users don't want to pay to tweet instead of making a sense they don't want to pay every time they click on a button and even if they did it would be very participate on this house and so I have a crypto please everybody fixes the button the network gets really expensive and slow so blocks Julie started hopefully 2014 built an aiming system on top of main point which is important when the early forms a big learning that was made for us learned a bunch of things for an incline that why why you actually want to be on the most secure blockchain through trust migrated to big point with some technological virtual chain so at one point we were about half of the nine financial transactions that requirement which actually isn't something to be proud of it was because of your inefficiently using the space we were making too many transactions we need to do as these new bitcoins are going up we realized it was very hard to have a good user experience on top of Bitcoin but would still want this process to be godly and I was 13 so the last sort of year or so has been a new block speed development upon using rust-proof things called tool group work which is essentially a proof of burned blockchain stand behind stacks blocks by burning bitcoin it's taxing and exchanged which gives you a bunch of interesting characteristics it also has a small so block SEC currently provides sort of some tools that let make it really easy for for developers to build the kind of apps then they would like to thank hours over the right of course for decentralized apps it provides Daiya which is a storage hub for users so it's a place perhaps to store data and you should be happy and it's just either use a public one or they can run their own so that's really nice because app developers don't have to store data user your databases also provides a universal sort of sovereign and an immune system block stack off it's less exciting it's apps using credit ography and you get a nice user name that lets you interact with your friends I'm gonna work so it's assertively we sort of look at the cloud infrastructure as sort of like we look at the way it works is that this pendulum it swings back and forth so in the early days it was mainframes these really big computers everybody but used together like share with your colleagues and then a sort of a pendulum swung back its went back to the other side of the screen we've got personal computers so everybody had a PC and then then we moved back to the other extreme now we're a club where our apps are essentially just dumb terminals to someone's data center someplace and you think that the world is gonna be back in the other direction computing is going to move back to devices client-side so we're looking at cloud we look at cloud computing we look at how can we how many ways group to centralize this and to do that we've gone through in creating replacements for a lot of the popular tools that you use the developer so please click connect you need something like blocks a off to replace that and different things different things like this there's also sort of a bunch of apps that come up and watch that universe they're placed some of these popular apps that he may use a daily basis so want to jump ahead here this is the sort of tools you get as a developer the ones I'm going to talk about today are file storage and authentication smart contractors running a test net but he's not left on me that will come next year we've learned a lot from our theorems sort of a prior experience design person or country common language to hopefully avoid some of the problems that happened community arguments over bugs and stuff like that so that's nothing to keep in mind teacher ok so again let's look here here we got like here ok so we're gonna start off the hands-on part of this part of this talk so if it means you can miss between spanis QR code or you can type in the address right here on the bottom screen those of you it looks like everybody how many people are not using on that any Windows computers here one to Linux to your users in your handbag awesome okay so so I'm gonna be doing this on map but it should be very similar in Windows you're going to need to have installed it's like get and then note pretty much those are the basic requirements anybody not have to get get or note and no installed awesome okay so the first step up actually okay we're not going up we're not going to follow through this tutorial on sort of like a word by word basis but we're going to follow roughly following up to the first thing first thing we're going to want to do is open it up and you click the start button and we're going to skip a lot of up Authority but I want to say I've told you that the first thing we want to do is to create blocks technique that's something you need to test your path and you can do that by going to the address at the top of the screen you can see it it's browser blocks deck that work and these figures raise your hand and you think of this for those even computers you can also lose on your phone to try one she won't go to develop who is got to the screen okay wait a minute everybody okay yes okay so what you want to do is we want to click on the create your new ID I'm gonna just create a throwaway out of your guesses on projector so you choose your name yeah thanks across 19 so you choose name you want this is gonna be your username you check availability you should do something different than mine and I choose a password this tax code is going to be used to encrypt the secret that the vulture identity it'll be emailed to you interrupted form so if you lose computer ever you erase your browser you can recover it by going to email following instructions to recover using this password to decrypt this is great don't walk around how people are doing everybody is creating their Bluffs they're going to eat nice anybody having problems raise your hand oh okay [Applause] okay so once you create your blocks a great you're gonna arrive being sent to a home screen and a bunch of existing apps you can check those out there after the after the talk and I'll tell you hopefully I'll talk about outlining which is a program where your developer there's money each month for the top apps so you could if you create an app you could submit it to outlining or money every month you get I think $100,000 this past month but eventually it's going to be unbelievable assaulters per month hey dr. developers so the ox you see the sevens website very part of that program okay so next up the next step is to go so if you go back to the tutorial that we opened up earlier here um there's if you go to the left side it says to try it zero to dap we're going to find a link that we can balance and code so if you vote like try it here at the DAP and then you scroll down to point number two learning about the platform there is a alliances get the animal kingdom code so as you want to not open the animal kingdom code repository let me see if I can show that to you on screen I guess it's natural to does everybody see that they can animal coat get animal kingdom coat music start sorry about the delay and then what we do is on the left side we click try try it do it out number two platform I have been attorneys with them okay let's write another approach how about this can't go to get up to go to this heavens I thought I would save time using the link it's github.com / pluck sack slash animal desk but we're going to clone this so I'm going to minimize my browser and then clip a terminal up here so first of all in the animal kingdom Rico it's already found that it's apparently receipts from moment when they look into that so positive one of the things you'll notice as including this app is that like it's only one repo and there's nothing there's not only any server component so it's a single page JavaScript app I like the deep this is this river react this down the intention of the demo is not to be an app that really does less immediately interesting but this really show you some of the concepts exist at blockhouse so once you clone the app you can run npm install and install all the dependencies anybody having problems big problems we should have help we were able to install that's awesome hey everybody's trying to run npm install on the wife at the same time who has finished running in himself Bridget man silver and he's done it's downloading okay okay well let's let's wait a minute or two well [Music] yes you could you have totality duty first clone it and then you have to run it yet insult I'm sorry it's frozen digitally and it has to compile something and if you have penances well Oh yeah yeah so so there's two people that but in my heart I suppose okay so let's see once you've installed dependencies you can run the app but we're gonna run the app and so we're gonna walk you through the different process together you run the app by running the APM space from space scut but very limited it's awesome yeah so so so the stuff about can't be equal this is sort of more of a direction that's actually look my my company is working on a comm tomania browser and the browser will be that it it sits between users house your absolute running and the rest of the world and make sure the apps can people at the moment this particular demo shows us how shows us how we can store data and client-side and didn't curve it for users and how we can store that Daniel uses storage what it doesn't show you is it doesn't show you how to cut it like prevents third party requests it's a big under people it just shows you one part about it and these are still under development but these these are two critical parts that you need for building I can't even laps okay so when we look at stuff when you see this this next lion on the front page this is Marty same things I'm gonna sign out with another account so you don't see a lion you see this you see the sign in page they don't know what we're gonna do is you're gonna click sign in a block stack I'm gonna walk you through what happens so when you click this annular block stack what happens is a JSON web token gets generated and there's a nice JavaScript library to provide it does that and in that library a random firm little key get started it's called the transit heat and with that that's stored in the local storage of instance of the app you're running with that stun and that's used for is for encrypting the data that set between the users Authenticator in which this is the WAP site process of passing users ID and yeah so the nature of the gift that if the token that's sent between the happen the Authenticator has ever lost that the secrets in that can be sort of taken away and so this token is created as as things like that app or is it the name of where the app is there's a question a patient and it's since also sent a list of type of data and paper permissions is a poble so we can ask to the users email you can ask for the ability to publish data publicly this app uses and that's something people so you see this instance that when I click on sign-in button it's open to the authentication request token which is here at the top of the screen all these letters is asking for the app that's running at look the host or 2000 wants to read your basic info and also to publish data of this app and so I'm going to click this as the user I'm gonna sign that token I'm gonna create a sign response by eating by using a private key that's derived specifically for this app from my identity and I gets in I extend that to open back to the app and there's another function which is in our SDK which reads that response and services krypton that verifies it make sure other things to be the easier name that is sent back actually belongs to the person that signed the response it's information such as which notes this user wants to interact with where this particular user wants to store their data things like that to know where signed on say name I know you can take a look at what actually happens we've got some bones so in the easiest way that I successor open the request inspector I'm using Firefox because Chrome has problems on a projector for some reason it flashes in the spiritual machine you can use a browser you want so we're going to open up the inspector with a network request we can see right now that it's generally just making requests post click on one of these buttons and we choose one of these and most of your animal fur so that lets see a cat with nine lives consumed happens you see request gets me this blog staff network this is this is the public storage about that block stack Public Management Corporation rights for people to use for free if you were to configure your own no disrespect your own host name and as well to what happens here is that a request made to that user stores help if you look at the the request URL here by clicking on it you can see that it looks like there is a Bitcoin address very lost that's just a that's not actually it is in the form of different address to it's actually just a representation of the public use design in this app so use each tap it's its own unique storage bucket and that's deterministically calculated off of the private key it's used to sign their sign-in request so that's really nice a bit like the way if you want to read write to you through storage all you do is you take the time accusers out gave you and a new sign sign something through API now that request gets sent along with data in my store that you not you sorted and recover so besides getting this out specific user specific private key using it for storage and also use it for by creating cryptocurrency flawless so I wrote a blog post I think couple I gave a talk at me through him classic I develop this conference and I show people up to make a theory log log stacking three nights of code it's pretty easy all you do is you take taking private keys play as a dream addresses well three times okay cool so there are bunch of things you can do now that you have served like just this username app and a place to store data we can do some cool thing today you can look at other kingdoms and you can look at other people's I think some of them are offline you can look at one that's online so here we got the last one ma one to two that liking that's a mary's there is a kingdom click on that and you can actually knew what her persona is you could see what their territories in what was interesting about this is you're actually making that peer-to-peer request so you're we're doing is having behind the scenes you're doing a look-up on this person's name lookup it's running on the block's activity we're gonna even response back that says hey this dam is owned by a certain public key and then once you have that public key you can do not look up anything get the link to that person's storage hub gaya storage hub and you can read it directly off of that user so you can actually do multiplayer apps and interact with them without having to go through a server you control instead of the implications of this are like you can take the private key that you're given when you sign into Manhattan you can encrypt some data with it store it money users up and then you can the other you another user can read that but they can't read that now you could you can actually ask the other you let me start over here so you didn't take the pirate store a copy of the public key for that private key on the users hub and then you've been no litigation and another version of your app that users running they can look up your friends public heat and they can store some data encrypted for that person on their own pub and then read that data in a way that knowing you'd be trying in time and see you don't have to do any given key exchange it's really really pretty easy so lets you make really easy like absolute and interactive people internet encrypted web um so there are some steps in this tutorial that you can take on your own time um where you customize the kingdom we even do is you can sort of like add I'm not going to walk that now is it get certificate involved you can actually why don't I cluttering up and look at it yes code how much time you give up Oh firstly any questions up till now I'm going to do a little second thank you I want to make sure they understood so so storage hubs needs to be online and they need to have a publicly accessible URL so it's not it's stored on a server its assertive user runs on their house they use a public one if somebody wants on their behalf they can run their own survey at home as long as it's a publicly accessible maybe that's about something's really it's a really simple dishonor that you repurpose existing cloud storage to be a public public key cryptography accessible storage that make sense any other questions it makes let's take a little look at at some of the difference but if the website um what we talk about server list server list X servers the way we've mostly service you maybe never us land up which is a server alright to serve the runs our code what we think about we talk about server list as we think about having the code the business logic run on client side so it depends what your definition of servers I'm sorry so so it might be what server this means the demo I think we're the way the industry uses server list it's like a face of different interment people need to use to be late you don't have a long term out ill app server running and you set some code then you spin up a server for a water glass turnoff I supposed to having a lot running out process so in that instance it's not service because that's what service means it's also not server listening through no there are types of servers that are involved there's a server that's been to the node which gives you information about you need to public key mappings there is a storage server but there isn't necessarily a server that's running business logic I'm an investor that's the sort of let's Hasker code so you can make apps that are built around Tina protocols so like the waiter the waiter data is stored in a need for storage and you don't need to run you need to have a web server that serves your single page JavaScript app but you don't need to have any logic running on that web server I know a lot of mine that I am fine yeah does that make sense and then often ultimately when we're not there yet but where I would like to take this it's to make it so that like I mean I'm looking at ultimately breaking the connection between a group like one of the things we have in the web every time you click on something it sets a request to the server you can override that but makes you fall bit like it goes back to the server and I'd like to get to the world where you can download like a bundle of like HTML Javascript images from somewhere maybe the web maybe the app developers web server maybe ipfs maybe somewhere else and then once you have that what I essentially offline its online that like it can interact with your friends it's online they can talk to your storage but it's offline from the developer if there's no need there's no reason for the developer to get every request anything so I think that if we could figure out how we can break that connection then we can serve really reduce the surface area of privacy please kind of I mean I'm very pricey concert and always see the clients and you have guests it's also reasonable but you say okay all the privacy issues I would be concerned I agree but the services that are running right now for on Facebook are possible because there is no privacy and they make money with our data so what would be the future is this morning for distributed applications yeah I think they've got a stinking testing I think that did the future business model is that erupted painting from software yeah so I think that it's very difficult people and so I suspect that the group of people that will pay it will be small in the beginning I think it will grow to some extent I don't know if it will ever be like I mean as anything necessary people would love to say I think it's gonna like everybody's gonna just go back to the pain for it I don't care about this I think it's probably the biggest heart the biggest problem that we face so one way to look at it is it like a minority of people play to have money equal pay for our privacy sort of look at the Apple Android split I mean I know that Apple doesn't deliver deliver as much privacy as they claim but like that's that's they recognized so it will use a lot of money on that I'm sorry to hear from family members they're not technical oh I'm using have any iPhone because I think it's more private so I think he makes you splits in the world where there's a groups of people that have the resources to pay for things that are fighting there those that don't and you know what's that digital peasants will wear all overall digital peasants right now just for farming Facebook's a little page on Facebook or farm our Twitter account so we can get more followers so the jack can make more money but I think Elysium if you watch the movie easier yeah and anybody wants to Elysium no it's it's a movie where like earth-like there's all the rich people live in a space station above Earth and like it's really nice everybody's a beautiful and it's a beautiful green lots of stuff in it Space Station and Earth is just like this dry desert of like poor people it's not another very good oh maybe maybe that's what happened okay so in last blessing that's I'm going to walk you through some of the code of course I haven't read it yet so it still apparently Microsoft has not memorized their software for Mac OS Catalina so I said we open up if you open up the animal kingdom folder in your favorite code editor and walk you through some of the different parts of it yes if this is the probably the flashing this is the public's having chrome if there's a public chromium when you run a commercial machine movie stuff I can clear it work some of the render can flash is like this to look at that the source directory s fire C is a number of different files with the open landing GS [Music] so if you look at it you look at that file and - yes you'll see that there's two different things are happening that are related to the blocks at three different things there's the second line or it's something called user session from blocks tech library the user session is an object that holds all the data related session for a particular app and it took me a fusion that sent it the next thing you'll see except when the build ending out of the occiput has constructed an instance of the user session app is index or popular that's configured by a constant app to pick from the constant spot which can you take a look at its displays here I'm unfortunately unable to use come anyway there's a bunch of constants in there that just like tell the class about various settings yeah and then with user clicks the sign-in button you call this redirect assign function which is great great and that that generates the authentication request token and does the redirect to the users Authenticator which in this case is the block tech project and then what happens is when you when these are signs in you could come you come back and it called some other function called handle pending sign it I'm solo verification and at once once you've done that successfully you can use the user session object to access things like their name their profile picture things like that and you can read and write data up to those stores using the folks install to the file and hit fun fortune I can't show that to you because it's not rendering at my screen laboratory okay cool well we have like whole minutes left so I want on your time for questions if I also want to play with one more thing go back to this meditation so if you if you make an app block stack you can apply for hot money which is a chance to get some money it's available every month so most recent anything goes $200,000 in the way it works is every month all people that submit the app so that their apps I have mining their apps get reviewed by four different companies of which my company is one here at the bottom unit labs till our clients primary UI where you need around labs each of these companies review apps for different different functions different characteristics prior month looks at how popular the app is an approximant community and some other proprietary taxes they don't they don't really share hilarya looks at the each of your app when you're flipping your marketing like how many times is your out appear on various social media platforms on pressing gonna try my UI has to use ability to address of your app and my company of what we currently look at it's whether or not you use blocks a communication and whether I use block sex torch little incest or if we stand out future to look at movies you can't be evil pop these sites recently mentioned or not perfectly not this month that's all I have for me today if you have more questions feel free to email me if you want to join The Telegraph group there was a short code out there if you're interested in that money going app duck Oh / - yeah thanks so much for listening any any questions audience a very much pleased that if I go so question was if I want to be evil holiday is that blocks that Oh currently when you do is you do to take the private key that you get when you sign in and then you'd send that someplace else so so when you sign into an app you could a type specific to that app but you like it's intended to be only use within your app on that user's device but you could of course they could post it to Facebook or send it to whoever you want really so that would be anything really evil because then the user would think that their things are being encrypted but actually the private key is floating around so that's one of the things we're looking at building software it's like make sure that that's happened the other questions what do you think we will not care about I think I think they I think that people do care about privacy but it's flu and it has to do with their money like like your theory in the corner least we know one of my favorite apps blocks equity and show you in the list that let me show you it's called vetoes diode it's a really awesome quite multi-state wallet it makes it really easy to like maybe well let's take wallets and basically have a payment system for your business you can create a pet store an Accounts Manager but yeah so that's like so really great app and the answer he had trouble getting what you want I can't show it to you you know so I guess testing outside right it's not working at work so anyway like he was trying to sell this this web-based male sick wall with a really great new axe to some Bitcoin whales okay put your big boy name this wallet and they were like I'm not putting my Bitcoin in Google Chrome are you not something that's too much know where my parking is going so I think that that's that's one of the big push backs is they like they really if you have any significant amounts of fines you're gonna not really want to put them into anything that has to do with a current web browser extensions are not super safe that sort of that sort of thing so I think that like people do care about privacy with when they're the finances revenants or like when the people that you care about privacy yeah I live in Hong Kong and right now a lot of people care about their privacy like this is why they buy they buy empty arts it gets with cash they cover their faces so yeah it gets I think it just it like you don't always have care about privacy all the time because it's tiring like you can't I mean really know things in your life can't always be playing privacy the thing I do is when I go to the airport Hong Kong I opt out but if a skinny and the first time I did it was really hard and it may need really angry the ICC just wasn't that for the next 30 minutes did ya well the great thing is a lot of people saw the block code it's changed now it's really easy opt-out you just go and say I'd like opt-out please mate like Carberry mexicanas but that required a lot of like there's no payoff for me like and it just made me angry and so if you're always worried about privacy like but you can't always be the top thing in your mind because other things are more important your friends or family money your business so I think it's just a fact of life I don't have a problem this is private security should they have like anyway that's it different a different topic [Applause] you