Community Meetup Dec 2020: Blending Gaming and DeFi with Axie Infinity

all right and we have started recording um so please uh behave guys on the um on the live stream so uh welcome everyone uh this is e KL uh December 2020 Community meet up uh today we are very lucky to be welcoming Alexander from XC Infiniti uh those of you who don't know XC infinti should really get to know them uh they are by many metrics the leading blockchain game in the space uh right now and um so just a quick introduction to KKL for those of you who are here for the first time uh we are a community Meetup that focuses on the technology and use cases of the blockchain uh specifically ethereum uh we're sponsored by E scan which is uh one of The Proud exports of Malaysia uh in the space uh and um yeah so let's get started so we typically start with some uh announcements uh for those of you who are not aware uh ethereum 2 uh finally had it Genesis um what was it two days ago um on the 1 of uh December and just for those of you who haven't heard uh it's a funny story about how decentralized systems work uh when um Bitcoin got launched Satoshi added a message in the first ever block of Bitcoin that said um the times um something about B out in the UK whereas in ethereum when we did the first ever Block in ethereum 2 uh because it was um proposed by a sort of a random member of the community uh he had a or she um presumably he because he said Mr had the most profound statement of Mr F was here uh so that's going to forever be uh um permanently on the blockchain that the first ever block proposed on ethereum to had the message Mr F was here uh second announcement is um my crypto winter uh the very popular uh wallet on ethereum they're doing this um monthly security sharing so if you uh follow them on Twitter and you sh you retweet your messages and you follow the steps obviously uh you'll be uh in have a chance to win uh swag and free gifts uh I see XC is one of the sponsors this time uh so if you want uh the swag then um fill uh up those uh the steps for my crypto winter uh just follow them on on Twitter and I will find a link to share later as well uh so yeah like I said a bunch of items to cover uh this month uh first one is how uh year Finance is going on this D5 m& A3 uh not one or two or three but seven uh different projects that they either merged with or integrated somehow and yeah this too many for me to uh be able to find a link that uh put them all I'll I'll share their medium page later and then you can um find the different articles if you're interested uh and then there was a there was a partial chain split on ethereum uh it's not it some people would have called it a hard for but because ethereum has multiple clients it wasn't a hard for uh basically some uh nodes were running an older version of gu uh which is the most popular client and uh when that version became um outdated because of some um security bug then uh they got disconnected and um fortunately or unfortunately infura which is the note that is used by a vast majority of the deps was using the old G client so a lot of um a lot of depths wasn't working for for a few hours and even a bunch of exchanges had to block with s because they weren't on the canonical blockchain um it's it's kind of interesting it does show that hey actually ethereum isn't centralized um in in a centralized way relying on infura because you can see a bunch of other notes but uh it does point to um a problem uh when um cents are updated and and people don't um people don't show up I'm just going to mute I think um Cedric I think you just joined I'm just going to mute you quick okay um next one is uh god daddy which is the world's uh largest uh name domain service provider uh got socially engineered that means some of the employees uh somehow uh got uh hacked into essentially and therefore the hackers managed to hack into uh some crypto services including liquid which is the exchange based AO Japan Singapore and nice has nice hash which is a mining service um and the very big news that just came out this morning uh Visa has announced a partnership with circle uh circle's the one that created uh usdc uh and uh basically they will enable credit cards on the Visa network uh to be integrated with usdc so you canop [Music] sorry guys I'm just going to make sure I automatically mute everyone then uh next one uh so this is our own Community member uh Johnson uh Johnson who works for coin Geto he independently created a dgen Trader Chrome extension uh so if you are a dgen Trader uh you will probably benefit from this Chrome extension bunch of features that um help make your DJ life easier uh and uh coin Geo created a crypto awareness survey for Malaysians uh recently uh from the what I recall of the results it's a pretty um expected uh mostly like it's males uh 20ish and 30ish um year olds who are predominantly uh in crypto and uh one interesting thing was that they said that at least out of their survey uh which may or may not be representative um 5% of uh Malaysians have invested in cryptocurrency which in my opinion is a bit higher than I thought I thought we didn't um um get adopted by that many people um so I can share the link later for you to check the results uh similarly luno luno Malaysia our um widely most widely used exchange also did a survey of their users uh in their case it was a bunch of older people uh 30 to 49 year olds and I yes you could be um you could uh understand that as older people use exchange a lot more uh instead of using like defi or wallets and stuff like that uh theyve also said that they have 90% of the local market share but we do know that there are many Malaysians who don't use the official uh tree license exchanges uh so take that with a pitch of salt uh they've also announced uh globally that they've created a Bitcoin savings wallet where you get three to 4% uh interest return uh annually it's not launched in Malaysia yet because I believe they have to get a deposit uh license or something similar uh be approved by The Regulators um another one is huabi uh one of the biggest exchanges they've launched an exchange out of La one uh it's I don't know if this been some misunderstanding or miscommunication but the Laban license actually doesn't allow you to provide your services to Malaysians it's meant for you to just uh create an exchange out of Laban and it's sold for uh outside of Malaysia uh in this news article they actually mentioned they are selling um two Malaysians so I hope that's a miscommunication and not a intentional thing because they're probably going to be in trouble um if that's true and uh lastly brua Malaysia our stock market exchange has finished a pilot uh using blockchain for bonds uh they partnered with this uh stack company uh out of Singapore uh I checked them out they're a fintech company I think under a Sandbox by the Singapore regulator um I don't know what blockchain they have uh when I Google I can see uh it mentioned a quorum in the uh text preview but when I'm on the website I can't find a mention of Quorum at all so um that's something to uh be explored later and if anyone knows uh anyone from hashtags uh it would be happy to invite them uh to share to our community okay uh so that's it for the Roundup uh I will allow uh Alexander to share and let me just think I muted you earlier um Alexander um you can share your can you hear me yeah great yeah give me a second I need to I'm gon to fix some some small things here it's just uh what I do that happy to be here uh should be good I I uh I'm a little bit connected to the Malaysian scene we we know we uh in axi we uh we know the guys over at coin Geto quite well so they were actually in h Min City where we have our our our main base uh I think uh maybe one and a half years ago or something like that so they're they're really nice guys over there yeah all right all right all right oh but it's the wrong presentation so just give me a second um and uh if anyone has uh maybe you can put in how many X's you might have uh in your wallet if you don't mind sharing I can see how many AIS just for the audience yeah yeah yeah does anyone actually play axi here I'm curious about that anyone else in the chat so I I maybe know how how detailed I should be in my presentation we have uh Steve who said he does um I do I have I think four XS right now looking to read a b [Music] bad yeah are you winning uh I think I'm slightly above 50% slightly oh well at least then you are getting some some some SLP all right so what I'm going to do then is share my my my my not screen but present purely all right can you guys see the sky Mavis presentation or the axi presentation right now yeah all right so where did I go okay mm is it full screen uh not yet you have to click on the present button right yeah let me know when it's full screen stop sharing resume share okay now it's full screen now it's full screen okay so then I'm just going to begin presenting and you can uh if there are any questions just feel free to stop me and we can discuss I'm going to take this a little bit uh like uh light as so we can have some discussions under way but yeah axi Infinity live play and earn the reason why the name of this presentation is that is is because of the latest things we've seen in terms of what axi Infinity has been and and what it is becoming but to get started at the most important things $130,000 I'm sure some of you guys have heard about this but the the most this is the price for the most expensive ACC ever and it's not alone there are several axes actually that I've sold for this price my name is Alexander I'm one of the co-founders of axi infinity and Sky Mavis and we've seen the real impact of what it means to truly own your game item and what play to earn can mean for not only axi but also games in the future but to help me describe the problem uh that we are solving for I want to talk a little bit about the traditional gaming industry uh and kind of where we got started so to help me illustrate here's Bob he's played over 5,000 hours of of World of Warcraft and now he is quitting the game all the game items and everything that he's achieved over that time uh actually belongs to blizzard so it doesn't belong to him and when we started axi we saw this as as a major problem because there are so many people who want to trade their game items and the only way that they can do that right now is by breaking the terms of use for the for the game companies themselves and the game companies they don't have any incentives to actually share uh the profits or any of the things that are happening inside the games but we believe that Gamers deserve to own their game items so if he played axi Infinity instead he could have easily owned all his game items started his own digital identity and then also monetized from there everything would have been provably scarce transparent so that you could see whenever items were traded and how many actually exist and then of course portable so that you can bring them with you into potentially other games in the future or other games across the entire axi Infinity universe and I think this is quite important to mention our killer use case is not necessarily the The Meta universe that that might be coming because there it's still a pretty far way out but that's a definite way what can happen in the future but what we believe in is that everyone should own their items and be able to have them with them not necessarily as usable things in other game universes but just as a proof that this is their history online and I think this is something that that we all forgotten so far so right now you can actually play axi Infinity uh today it's released in the community Alpha stage so we've been developing developing since early 2018 we've had a few uh versions out but the current version is available both on Android uh windows and iOS so if you have a mobile phone uh you which is using iOS or Android you can easily get started as long as you own three axes so the only way to get started is by buying three axes there is no free to play yet but we're still seeing massive growth which I'm going to get a little bit into later so what is actually axi Infinity well the easiest way to look at it is that axi Infinity is a digital pet Universe where you own some very cute game characters that you can use in a few different games so we've uh developed a battle game uh which I I mentioned and then we also have a breeding game where we can use your axes and breed them together uh to to uh create new game characters and that's kind of a part of the of the core game Loop right now and then we're also developing land gameplay uh which basically is like a um a persistent environment where you can use your game characters Harvest different resources on their land plot that you own and then collaborate with others to slay mon ERS that are wandering around on the universe and then use them to expand your your kingdom uh but probably what is most interesting is that we've seen how axi Infinity is evolving from just being this very simple game as when we got started it's now turning into something totally different where things are social where people are using axi infinti as a platform for job creation so they are harvesting different resources inside the game and selling it for real money the easiest way to look at axes is probably like they are workers if you don't have any workers you can't interact with the broader game universe and well one of the core things that you can do in axi Infinity right now and I mean today is if you own axis you can jump in you can play a few battles and you can earn some small love potions and what makes this unique is that these love potions are tied into the other game that we have which is the breeding game so if you farm love potions you can use them in the breeding game as long as you have axes to create a new axi pretty straightforward right it has a one specific use case smaller portions are used to breed new axes that's about it but of course as many other things in crypto we have seen how things are evolving outside of their original use case so when it comes to SLP um this is a picture from uh coindesk uh which uh was uh released in the middle of August this year where we started seeing how small love potions actually and ax Infinity is actually changing lives in various areas around the world so what we started seeing is that some players they have very irregular playing patterns uh compared to other players it means that they are playing something like 12 hours every day trying to harvest as many resources as possible because they want to sell it immediately and extract as much value as as they could so what we did is we had to ban some of these players because we we were suspecting that they was both like behavior and then some of these guys they started sending us emails oh can you please Unbound me uh it seems like you guys have made a mistake and they send pictures of themselves and we realized that oh my God it's actually an entire Village in the Philippines that are now playing ax infinity and they're living off playing our game there was one guy who started spreading it to his entire family and to his friends and it kind of took off from there so we unbanned them and the the story started spreading like wildfire in the media but before that we had actually we're now also seeing that real businesses are forming in axi with contracts and people are making automated versions to actually hire other players to harvest these small love potions as small love portions are just the first of many items that you will be able to find in axis we're incredibly bullish about what will happen in the future and of course this has enabled play to earn so as I mentioned why are people being able to live by playing axi well the very simple uh thing is that they Farm These resources and they harvest them uh they turn them into uh tokens and then they interact with a broader defi space and that's basically what's enabled all of this growth that we've seen lately but we've talked a lot right now about why it's important for players to make money inside a game like axi but for traditional games players don't even make money but they still love playing the games right they because games have something that that that we like to refer to as intrinsic value when people are playing the games they they become happy in axi right now there's a lot of extrinsic value extrinsic motivation so people they come in they get motivated because they can make money inside the game and I think that's very clear but what we're seeing in axi is that it's not only extrinsic motivation that doesn't explain why people are spending 130,000 USD on axes like this because when you look at the quite simple math okay I have three axes these axis can produce a certain amount of SLP every day that means that I can make money right that's extrinsic motivation on the intrinsic side why would you buy something like Mystic axi for $130,000 because you can't say that 130,000 okay that's going to produce XYZ it's a different kind of motivation and I think that's what true ownership of game assets actually enable so for axi it's pretty clear they buy them because they want to take part in a new economy and a new digital nation that is actually coming into life right now in front of our very eyes so when it comes to revenue and metrics uh it's been pretty kickass to see the massive growth that we've had over the over the past few years so starting out in in very early 2018 we had a axi pre-sale and then we have a land pre-sale in early January 2019 which is quite normal for traditional kind of blockchain game companies you had like a pre-sale but what you're seeing right now is that these two bars the green one and the blue one they're starting to grow and these are uh recurring Revenue metrics so basically what this means is that we're creating a sustainable business where people are trading they're interacting with the broader economy and the marketplace fees and also the breeding fees are soon going to catch up to the land sale and axi sales in fact we've had over 6,750 eth in Revenue since we started the company in early 2018 and 430 of those has been in the last 30 days specifically from the trading fees and the breeding fees and when it comes to volume on our Marketplace as you can see the the the the growth lately is exponential uh it's been pretty wild since the people started realizing that they can actually make money inside the game uh and that they this is something special that's happening in terms of product Market fit so people are trading on our Marketplace we have our specifically created Marketplace on ethereum and also one on loom Network which is a scaling solution to to ethereum or at least that's kind of what what what the goal was that we're not moving away from that but I can take some questions about that a little bit later when it comes to daily active users we are now at over 12,000 when it comes to offchain activity on the weekly active users this is from a little bit L earlier last month but we now have over 19,000 weekly actives so it's been uh pretty heavy to see the growth on ethereum of course this is an ethereum Meetup uh we have all our smart contracts on ethereum um and over 16,400 users have interacted with our smart contracts on a monthly basis and you guys can see from from E theum we dominating the competition here pretty heavily and I believe yesterday or it could be today that we were the second most used application on on the ethereum network just after Unis swap but of course ax Infinity is much more than numbers since the beginning of the the founding of this company we've been creating various uh we've been very focused on creating community and they are building amazing things and creating amazing art like you can see here and now they're also minting that on rable to to tap into the tap into into that revenue streams Revenue stream they're also creating games which is kind of the next step of the axi evolution but these guys are very early so non-fungible tokens as a as a conduit they have many many use cases they can be used in different games but they can also be used because they're portable and they are permissionless they can be used to create other games as well so we started seeing Flappy axi for example being developed and also the the other one is axi Sushi and we're now going to be creating uh leveraging these Community developers into something more amazing down the line but they're also creating guilds and teams as I mentioned and now even companies inside axi but best of all they're taking axi infinity tattoos and this is something that you can't really buy for money the only way you get this kind of truly organic traction is if you you are building big Brick by Brick by Brick over several years and that's why we believe that axi has got what it takes for for the long term and can be a product that that will be Evergreen so where do we go from here right you guys have probably heard about axi but maybe you're not so familiar with axi infinity shards uh so far I've mentioned that ax Infinity is a sustainable business uh but we need to we need to put in some Rocket Fuel we've seen how impactful it can be with small love potions when people can just some asset that is tied just to creating new axes but what do you guys think will happen once we introduce a token that's directly tied to the revenue streams inside the game so if you own axi Infinity shards and you play the game you have a direct claim on the revenue as long as you're providing value to the network the easiest thing to think about it is like this normal players they play normal games right they spend money like anyone else would and this money instead of going to us the main company was building this we're putting that into a community Treasury and then that treasury is being governed by everyone who's holding the axi infinity Shard token so if you play the game you can find the token it's kind of a marketing strategy down the line but then uh you also get a claim on the revenue so you can claim rewards every week similar like synthetics and this is H going to kick off for real in the middle of 2020 when we are releasing the the new battle game for for the masses with free to play and other uh features for normal people not only crypto people like we have right now but that's not all of course land version one as I mentioned land gamepl is pretty simple you build your Land Based Kingdom you can place different kind of items on that and uh you can attack other players but land is much more than that because I mentioned right that the we are going to be turning land into more of a virtual world and the difference between axi and for example the central land on the sandbox is that we are going at it from a user acquisition perspective first so if you consider something in the traditional gaming space that would be fortnite versus Roblox and Minecraft fortnite they do the same thing they are creating a game first and then they are bringing players into that game Universe where people are hanging out together with their friends having fun together and then they are now doing for example concerts and other games inside this universe that they are creating for RO for Minecraft there is no main game there is nothing that that people are doing there but they come to Simply play and create content together that's much harder to achieve than if you have something that's a user acquisition platform that can bring people in and then eventually turn it into a virtual world and that's why I believe that ax Infinity has much more potential as a virtual world than these other platforms who are going at it from a platform perspective first so you build a platform and you have to hire other game companies to build the content for you we don't do that we build our content first we want players to come in and then we create a virtual world eventually so that we can tap into the the creativeness of the user base that we already have yeah this slide is uh still being created so uh to summarize in ax Infinity we're creating something more than a game we are creating a new digital Nation where people are living together like on Discord they're communicating they're having fun they are playing together and they are now working together as well this is something that's unheard of so far in the in the blockchain industry I would say especially in terms of the traction that we have the growth so far has been exponential we went from 700 daily active users to over 12,000 in the past five months and there is no ended sight and for ax Infinity shards is the token that we have designed to capture all the value where we just had an IO on binance so yeah I think that's it for the presentation uh and in 2021 we're going to go mainstream and there's a road map and a lot more stuff available on our in our white paper thank you right thanks uh thanks Alex um if anyone has any questions uh feel free to put in the text box or I can unmute you I'm just going to actually I'm going to allow people to unmute themselves um please behave guys um and yeah so you can ask your question whether on in the text box or directly to um um Alexander can you unmute thanks Jason yeah I I I mean yeah we can demo the game if you guys want to I think that would be probably pretty good Jason ask for a free pet is that possible a free pet no nothing is free in life unless you are uh unless you are super lucky you can go and sign up uh you can go and try to uh win the latest uh uh what is that my crypto winter there's a there's a scholarship thing right or Ambassador thing where you essentially get uh to sort of borrow uh xes if I understand it right yeah yeah yeah that is correct so when you are uh when you are playing like if you want to play like that you can easily you can sign up and then other people can uh can give you some uh you can get access to their accounts and then they can then they can then they can play there so let's see if we can where did Zoom go we will pay the gas fee free pack no uh when it comes to free stuff I don't think uh the way that we view free stuff is that if you every time you we give away something we have to either create it or buy it if you're creating it we're diluting the the people who are inside the ecosystem so Things become less valuable when what we are trying to seek is to that we want the assets to become more valuable so but you can you I think you can get a pretty good team right now for something like 0.1 maybe 050 115 million views on that fortnite concert yeah that's pretty crazy um okay so what I'm going to do is share my screen right now and then we can and then we can go through this oh is this your own game your own axis yeah these are my own axes uh I have some very I have some very interesting axes let me see if we can find that well I don't know if you mind showing us a battle Yeah I will I'm just going to show you guys some of the very early IDs this is my favorite axi this is number 87 and he's super rare probably worth I don't know how much money but significant amount of money but yeah as you can see this is the application it it's uh it been like this for for a couple of months right now but you have an inventory where you can Harvest different kind of resources inside the game so we partnered with for example maker do kyber Network and also digix uh to harvest different kind of uh different kind of tokens for various seasons and if you do win a season oh this is my Battle Log sorry so if you do win a season you can see here let's see if this this is going to update now we are in season 13 and you can check the rewards so we have a partnership with AA right now so if you guys are owning AA tokens uh you can go into our AA partnership page and then you can claim an item for free as long as you have some a assets I think it's 0.065 AA that you have to own and then if you go if you can rank here uh like this guy has 2,68 matchmaking rating points he will win a 6,000 axi ala which should be about 60 ala in the game or six ala in game when he kind of puts goes into the it turns it into blockchain assets so let's see if my team here is okay I think it should be okay I'm gonna I'm going to play Arena right now so let's see if we can find an opponent right now my okay that was quite fast so this is a real live uh person I'm not sure what this guy is thinking so if you look up here I can see my opponent his name is there this is the first round his axis is moving first and then we have my Axis after that the bird axi has got certain amount of speed and these guys have also when that determines the range so I'm going to check this axi what he has okay he's got some armor here that he can get does he have anything else that can steal my arm my Mana no so there is no way that he can steal my energy so I'm just GNA probably wait around and then hopefully this guy will survive and we'll see what this guy does he might have might try to kill this guy at first we'll see oh he also passed so the way that it works is that person work has three Mona at the start same guy has the same guy also has Mona the on my opponent and then we can decide if we're going going to make some moves or pass so now this guy is going to attack my first axi so I'm going to have to figure out if I am going to defend it's probably not going to be able to kill him immediately but I want to kill this axi before it gets off any spells going to try to calculate some damage here I don't think I have enough damage to kill this guy but I'm going to use this guy so I get a poison stack in yeah I'm going to try to heal myself too yeah because this guy is probably going to deal some damage and I have to heal let's see yeah ah that was fail so I used the heal there for no reason I tried to predict what this guy was doing so it's a little bit rock paper scissory more cards and now I can do a shitload of damage here so I'm going to try to destroy this guy can I do this even yeah I'm just going to YOLO in I think it should be enough so traditionally a match maybe takes about yeah maybe 5 to 10 minutes and yeah that was nice this first axi died and now we're going to trade he's going to be killing my axi too but I would say that I'm still ahead here yeah I'm going to have to going to wait a little bit let's see what the chat are there any questions in chat by the way there can if you want to ah okay uh not disturbing you from your oops um Jason asked whether he can still claim if his RV is sted yes you can yes you can all right uh Tokyo crypto asks you to keep fighting um keep fighting I will never give up I hope this guy doesn't die if this guy dies now before he gets off all his spells it's going to be GG I might be this is too risky maybe I should just let this guy die because this guy is moving before me oh my God am I really going to die losers is this guy that would be the disaster on stream too I can't handle it no I can't can't risk it too much energy to risk me uh by the way uh Phantom asked um I understand minute okay Works um Phantom ask I understand when you want to participate you are depositing a certain amount of assets but where is the rest of the money coming from if everyone in the pool is only selling the love potions because I don't see any add Revenue yeah give me a second I'm going to crush this guy first let's see if I can win I got to focus on what's important in life winning games that's what matters I'm going to lose here I know that no me this guy is in last time but rip still dead Okay GG uh do you have a question I won that match nobody saw me losing okay actually and then I won GG wait do you have a question yeah yeah yeah okay go ahead yeah can you hear me yes can also hear yeah yeah yeah sorry uh yeah just uh by the side now it's quiet now yeah just uh wondering whether you worried that somebody else might might clone it but then I think maybe the worst case scenario is uh if somebody make uh open source project which means that everyone else will start doing the same thing and uh contribute you know just like how like next kill windows so I don't know whether you are you worried about this kind of scenario or you you would be happy like just like Firefox becoming open soft I mean so anyone can try to clone actually I don't think it's uh possible to clone it because it would be like oh anyone can clone ethereum but you you I mean it's not in the source code sure the game is a part of it but it's also the community and the the assets that have been acre value over several years so even if you had the exact same game the exact same assets that wouldn't necessarily mean that the exact same people would be there and value them at the same uh the same level that they do in axi right now so that would be the same thing as saying oh you can just like create a new art piece and that would be as valuable as the other ones I mean the the value is often derived from the people who are making something I think that's really a big part of what uh that's a really a big part of what it means to be a Creator in a sense because you're putting a a part Soul a part you're splitting a a part of your soul actually into the product that you're making and the the while people can try to copy that it wouldn't be the same thing in any case especially since things are also kind of public on on chain right now uh did that make sense to you or is that kind of a a weird concept sorry yeah I muted you because uh you had some background noise uh you can ADM yourself if you'd like all right now uh yeah now now it's okay no no background sign sorry uh yeah I think it makes sense uh part of it but then you said that you you think it is like ethereum nobody can clone but actually I mean from my perspective is that U ethereum is just another open source project and the uniqueness of open source project is that everyone will actually choose the best and contribute and is owned by everyone it's just like ethereum overtaking uh Bitcoin you know know but of course uh you know the Bitcoin I mean the cryptocurrency space is big enough for a few open source project to survive because they started initially as a open source project anyway but your game right is just a game so I think some of the value proposition is actually slightly different this is where I don't quite agree with you you know with your answer yeah I think that's okay I mean okay so so there are a few things here right um maybe we can discuss you're you're saying ethereum is an open source uh platform anyone can contribute and add value if they want that that is definitely true um but what I was more referring to is the sense that even if ethereum is open source a fork of ethereum will not have the same Co like have the same amount of presence as ethereum will have in any case because the value is derived from the community and the builders who are around the main commun like the main ethereum project and that's actually the same thing that's happening in axi so let's say that even if axi Infinity was completely open source which is is not because it's actually protected we own the IP and we're creating a game so for for first of all ax Infinity is not open source it is a game but anyone could copy it and make something else if they wanted to but they still would not have the same impact because the same team members would not be there and the community would not be around it so I think that's kind of the similarities between axi and ethereum in that sense and then what I want to say is that the the the true strength I think of ethereum is actually that whenever people want to build on ethereum some kind of value is actually going down to the main protocol Itself by that I'm saying if you are building Something Like Ur in finance or putting up various tokens on ethereum whenever people are interacting with those tokens they are paying some kind of gas fee and I think that's exactly what where we have to go with a too because we are also decentralizing the ownership of the platform through this game token but that in itself does not mean that anyone should be able to make something without adding a value back to the network because then they would be rent Seekers rather than people who are adding value right so these are things that are somewhat connected and when you say axi is just a game I I don't agree with that at all so a game is one specific thing axi is a digital Nation where people are coming together to do many different things so calling it a game is an oversimplification and I think maybe that is where we are disagreeing the most yeah uh thanks Alex uh I think we can um anyone's have free to agree to disagree uh we do have other questions I do want to um highlight them to you Alex just because I think at least a couple of them are probably uh hidden by the other comments that came afterwards um so Phantom I'm just going to put it in the text box because the uh because the answers uh the question is a bit long so you can check the latest question but just to give credits it is Phantom 1412 that asks this question I believe it's related to the revenue for um XC as a whole yeah okay so so the question is here I understand when you want to participate you are depositing a certain amount of assets but when there is when but where is the rest of the money come from if everyone in the pool is only selling the Love Potion because I don't see any add Revenue I think you might be misunderstanding the entire everything so I will try to explain it in in a in a different way you are not depositing your asset anywhere in that sense you are buying an nft you have it in your wallet and you can use that nft to play the axi Infinity game when you then Harvest small love potions what you need to do is that you can either use them inside another game which is a breeding game or you can sell them on an Open Marketplace which other people are buying them to use in the breeding game themselves so there isn't any add Revenue involved here what we are making money from as a Core Company is whenever people are breeding an axi we take a small fee on that and whenever people are trading axes on our Marketplace we take a small fee on that too so that's kind of where the revenue is coming from and that's why we are like made over 150,000 USD last month compared to the burn rate that we have so we are uh cash flow positive in that sense so it's a different kind it's not the same as you would stake some asset and then just get something else it's more of a you have to play you have to spend time inside the game and and the the so token actually has one utility that is to breed a new axi and if people didn't buy it it would be worthless but the money is coming from other people who are buying SLP because they want to breed and create new axes so they can either sell them or use them inside other games or do other things with the axes just simply collect them that make sense or I mean just feel free to ask more uh have can fire away yeah if you want uh follow up to the question Phantom you can put in the text box um Aaron asked uh what your plan is for scalability uh for L2 or things like that I do if I understand it right I do believe uh X is building a separate blockchain um for other stuff but let you answer yeah so we have to go a little bit back I think to the early 2018 when we founded our company so we were one of the very first blockchain gaming companies that founded after crypto kitties our goal was or what we thought was that nfts would change the way that games are being played forever and a big part of our goal was to do this in a very decentralized way where true asset ownership was very like tied into the player's hand and everything was decentralized and then what we realized is that uh it just doesn't make any sense to do that on ethereum right now so the initial version of axi was quite simply you had to send a transaction to the blockchain your opponent did the same and the axis battled together and that's it it was not sustainable it cost a lot of gas but that was kind of the earliest version of it and then we started exploring into various scaling Solutions uh and we actually uh deployed our land Marketplace on loom Network in the middle very early in 2019 as one of the first team who who uh were exploring scalability for uh for uh for games turns out that they had a little bit of a different plans uh so they are pivoting their company so what we learned there is that if you are a startup and you are building on bleeding edge technology that other startups are creating which then again are also building on something that nobody actually knows the future of then it's a recipe for a disaster pretty much so uh that's why we are going in the direction of creating our own side chain through ethereum right now which is called Ronin which is specifically tailored for ERC 721 assets where uh like only for axi at first but maybe for other games in the future so we're taking a step back in that sense we don't see that there are any other L2 scaling solutions that are suitable for nfts right now like you you can say that uh optimistic rollups uh it's it's coming getting there for ERC 20s but even so the the the smart contracts uh for for ERC 7 a second so what I'm going to do uh don't worry about oh there you are all right yeah disconnected yeah uh so then I can see Jason true is asking any possibility of a GOI on axi I mean so for a GOI it's a totally different product they are doing something different related only to AA uh so no I don't I don't see any way that a Goan and ax Infinity will be collaborating anytime soon maybe maybe sometime in the very long future once we've once things have established in terms of RC 7721 scalability uh let's see I just invited more people from into the room play another battle they want to see demo your skills I don't think my skills in axi are so good uh and then we are also uh releasing a new game a new battle version very soon so uh that should be more interesting I'm playing my I'm spending my time testing that game actually more so than anything so that's a valid excuse for not foring um we asked about your take on Flow blockchain yeah so uh that's a very interesting uh question I think uh flow and Dapper Labs uh are an interesting company they've seen tremendous Traction in the past with crypto kitties and they are seeing something now with with the NBA Top Shot as well so I think the flow blockchain can can be a success for them but I don't I don't see them being battle tested quite yet and we prefer to have something that can be tied to ethereum um more directly than having a separate layer one so that's why we are making an evm side chain uh more so than more so than than creating something brand new and trying to reinvent the wheel so we are the the the the Ron ins side chain is very much um is very much created using the the ethereum it's an ethereum Fork uh so it's very easy to deploy our contracts meanwhile on Flow they have I believe their own language coding language they also have a significant amount of uh of things that that that supposedly are better but yeah we we we aren't doing that I I I think that they are still far far away from being battle tested uh so but I'm curious to see where that leads um and there is another company as well immutable games they're making immutable X which is another potential scaling scaling solution but I also don't see that they are battle tested the nearest thing would probably be Matic uh but Matic are they aren't a game company so they we we we don't think that they see the the problems in the same sense that we do that's why we also wanted to make our own solution because it didn't really make much sense to put our faith in another company after being burned by BL Network so hard cool yeah I had a question myself uh and I think we've had this discussion uh between the two of us before uh what are some sort of uh support that uh other uh infrastructure players in the etherum space can do uh to help X or other nft projects in general infrastructure side sorry uh yeah so like wallets block explorers uh um sort of projects like that yeah I mean so uh so for we are actually making our own block Explorer it's already live we have our own wallet for roll in as well uh what we need is we are discussing with potential validators because it's going to be POS at the start and then depos and then ZK rollup most likely that's the intended road map for roll in but it's still a little bit uh a little bit out there so once we release things on mayet uh it should be more clear uh what what the what the needs are specifically right now we're very much just kind of uh waiting to to to release and then seeing what the community thinks of the initial release and then I I believe that a lot of people will will build things just because they can and that's what we've seen with ax too A lot of people are just kind of jumping in and making things to add value or yeah so would other projects be able to build on Rin like separate from the XC game so maybe in the future uh right now it's very much a permission chain so think about it like XD or Simer right so in in a sense that we don't have the there is no initial token on the Chain that's going to be used to to secure uh secure it like in in a in a POS network uh like you are like you used to sorry I said POS last time I meant POA so instead of a POS Network where people are staking their tokens to validate transactions in a POA Network people are staking their reputation so so that's why I'm saying yes it is a permission Network at the start we're working with very solid Partners to ensure that this reputation that they are staking is actually meaningful uh so so yeah for the reputation side uh excited to see or and share who will be our initial partners and then eventually once we open it up more uh once things are a little bit more clean uh we will see who will be allowed to build or not because uh it's mostly for axi I don't think uh I'd love to see other game companies have the same ideas that we do and do things in the same way that we do in the space but I I'm not seeing uh many other game companies like for example taking all the revenue streams that they have and putting it into a treasury to share it with everyone um and in my opinion I think that's like a needs needed that's really embracing the kind of the ethos for uh for web 3 uh Jason asked for some tips for beginners and he mentioned the price yeah so for axis right now yes it is expensive uh that there's no doubt about that but the reason why it's so expensive is because there is an opportunity and people are jumping in on it so they are driving their price uh up so everything is driven by supply and demand and that's also kind of tied into why it's worth it to breed new axes uh so right now we know that it's expensive for new players but we're working on a free-to-play version so when that when that is ready the free to-play players they can start playing but maybe they won't be able to uh they won't be able to uh Harvest resources at the same Pace as those who are paay axes so it depends a little bit on what your your goals are if you come into axi and say that oh my goal is purely to get Roi or to make money I mean that that you can do that too but as everything things go in Cycles so I would uh I would as everything in life don't spend money that you can't afford to lose uh if if you are coming into it betting your house and your grandmother's house and your family's house please don't do that I mean things things can change don't do that in ether as well uh but yeah you can also find the scholarships so to say or companies that will hire you to play the game for free so you can try the game uh that's the kind of the the current freeto play that we have so if you join ax. no discord.gg axi uh no that's not sending privately uh discord.

gg uh you can join there and then you can see that you can ask players for some help if you're a new player I can get started I think I'll just ask one last question uh related to what Jason followed up earlier like what your plan is to attract new players and I guess if you can expand a little bit more about how getting in the uh free topl version uh and going forward like if the price keeps going up and up whether you are um like unintentionally then um like kind of removing certain parts of the market from being able to enter yeah so we can start with the price uh the price is just a function right now of a lot of demand to get into axi I think it will balance itself out once people start in like farming more SLP so SLP then will be used to breed but right now there is also an artificial level of things that that are pressing up the the prices which is the gas fee on ethereum right so it's very expensive to just get started because you have to pay gas if you want to breed new axes so once we get on the Ron and side chain this this will be free to to kind of breed the only thing you have to pay is s so and the smaller breeding fee so that should also mean more axes coming into production and then that I could maybe reduce the prices but we don't know how how many people will come in to play the game just because the opportunity is so massive for a c in certain parts of the world right it it's pretty unheard of to be able to maybe get our to to farm real money by playing a game I think I think um that that's that's quite the reason why things are so expensive right now so this is something that we didn't really predict that this would happen so fast but it also kind of came in after the there was a massive price speculation on SLP so things can go up things can go down uh we are mostly focus on the long term and try not to stay too connected to the price of everything um in terms of the SLP specifically uh when it comes to the long-term scale like long-term plan to onboard users I mean yeah the basic thing is this if we can provide a service or a game that is as fun or like on par feature par as with other games uh on the in the market and then we can have the add the benefit of having people being able to own their game assets and then also earn some tokens when they're playing the game that should be our killer feature that's it we don't have to do anything else no matter what else we do it's going to be a breakout success in my opinion so these These are the very simple things benefits and then uh like feature parody so right now the the axi game is pretty fun but the next one will be even more fun and the next one will be even more fun than that so we've been building for several years and we won't stop until we've reached our goals and uh yeah all right thanks Alex um we are like four minutes later than we should be uh because uh Vandal is going to be sharing on his uh project afterwards uh so that'll be for about 15 minutes so if you have other questions on NF and gaming in general uh you can uh keep that and then we can ask that later at the end after vendor's um quick presentation uh Le had a question there so uh if we have time we'll cover that uh later uh but yeah anyway thanks Alexander for for sharing I am gonna than for having me yeah no worries uh if you can stay there though uh because we we do want to like uh keep some time to ask more general nft questions um yeah I'll be around I'll just uh turn off my camera yeah in the meantime I'll get uh vendel uh to share and um Jonathan hey guys what's going on K family how's everybody doing cool good a while haven't seen y how's it going guys yeah uh also want to introduce Jonathan from bitri um he's the actually the main man behind the nft rapper project which we're going to share with you um that we're working together with uh my project D records and we're kind of combining the world of U I guess nfts and microt trusts and vaults and liquidity providing so um I guess the the project is called nft rapper and uh don't mind the darkness it's just after 4 am over and I'm gonna get Jonathan to to kind of uh give you a brief introduction about the project and then I'm going to share my screen and we're going to do a little demo for you cool hey everyone uh so yeah Jason uh came to me a while ago about raft tokens and just kind of looked at the you know looked at the different opportunities um that you know wrapping tokens uh kind of offer especially when you start uh looking at different Vault protocols um so we looked at the WRA crypto Kitty um and uh whole Vault protocol and the ERC you know W token that they had issued um and so we kind of look to automate some of those uh features um through through our nftg rapper project all right so yeah go on well uh so Jason was gonna show just a quick demo of kind of how this works um it's really simple all right so can you guys see my screen y y okay cool all right so this is our Dow records shop on mint base so any of our nfts here which are audio nfts created by artists and musicians you can essentially uh grab one of these nfts um they are for sale but for those who have them and like myself I've got a bunch here uh in my catalog so we're going to go let's say let's grab this one here right and then um what we do is we take the ID number uh later on we're going to have this automated so you can just kind of put in the URL but uh currently it goes by token ID number um so let me grab this token ID why is my screen there we go okay copy paste all right and then um go here let we connect the wallet this is the uh the beta page right here for nft rappers so we can select the Vault so currently we have two vaults one is for avastars and the other one here is our Dow records Vault so what we can do now is you want to deposit the nft so you go based on the ID number you put the ID number in here and if you haven't approved already and just approve it approve it real quick all right all right so now we're all approved once the uh transaction goes through and we put can place the token ID number down here and then we can basically deposit that nft that we had over here or was it this one right by getting the ID number so these are audio nfts right they actually can play can play music um so we've uh collaborated with artists and musicians to create these Unique Kind of audio nfts so now get the audio nft into the Vault all right so it'll adjust the gas fees to the most expensive uh just to make sure that the transaction passes but usually um for this beta version you'll be refunded a lower uh gas price once it actually clears so so the purpose the purpose of this protocol is to provide technology that automates the process of liquidity so you can you can put uh essentially our vision is to make it so you can deploy Vault for any nft contract and so you'll be able to deposit any nft into any type of you know Vault and then receive back a liquidity token or utility token um for your deposit so in this case that's a wrapped tune token so our token for our nfts are Are Tunes uh from Dow records and so we've created a wrapped tune e pair here in uh Unis swap so essentially we can just add liquidity through here yep right and we just wanted to make it so it was kind of plug and play and so it kind of act like you know acted like a little a puzzle piece where you know these tokens that were created automatically by this Vault contract um could be you know added to Unis swap or you know kind of just done whatever they're they're your tokens uh we don't have any rights to anything in the vaults so these particular Vault contracts just are they're kind of like public utilities tune token no we're not my understanding that's a dow um but yeah or something sorry I don't I can't see the um the people's questions so on the are we related to tune token.io oh no no this is um our our token was actually created through uh the Dow records Dow and our contract with mint base for the nft minting so I just named it the token tune because that's what we have Tunes yes so essentially that's that's I guess the uh the short and sweet of it um and the cool thing for us is that for Dow records is we can actually take our audio nfts that we have that people buy um and that the artist mint and then we can create pretty much instant liquidity by putting them into the nft rapper so so yeah so imagine a world where you have a musician or or someone who creates a whole bunch of different sound bites well instead of having to sell those sound bites um to people directly you can instead just deposit your um you know creative content into your own personal which ends up being like your own personal like micr trust and then you can you know get that kind of automatic liquidity and you know instead of offering you know an individual sound bite or whatever you can offer kind of this social token which what it turns into and people can purchase you know uh a group of these social tokens or that kind of stuff so it just adds you know kind of a little bit more of complexity and it it definitely gives um some of the power back to the individual um just through this kind of Technology uh yeah so uh we asked a question um as it assume the rep token is the same value uh because you know nfts can be different yep yeah it's um so really the value is kind of set by the free market um and so you know the value doesn't doesn't really happen until it's added to a liquidity provider you know like kind of like Unis swap so um so I mean these avastars essentially they'll gravitate towards I believe the lowest common denominator so you know it cost 0 you know 07 to m one and so ultimately if you run this um kind of you know game I guess um out for a while um that's kind of the price that we think it will go to but like like I said we don't own these vaults so you know they're just a public utility so you know that's it's really up to whoever interacts with it so uh just to add so uh is it correct to say that uh if I let's say have a very expensive um XE for example uh and I see there's a bunch of like cheaper xes that's uh in this Vault I probably wouldn't want to put my XE in the same Vault because then someone can buy my XE at the same price yep yeah I mean it's uh it's meant to just kind of provide automatic liquidity you know if you had something that was near and dear to your heart I wouldn't suggest putting it into kind of this public thing I mean that sounds like something you'd want to like sell individually or hold on to um you know there are you know this these types of vaults are kind of just the most basic and um like you I saw chat in there it go goes beyond the music industry literally any nft so anything can be an nft right right mortgages uh property titles uh car titles um you know you can tokenize income streams uh you know an nft could be a contract for a dow I mean it's really whatever you want and anything can be an nft uh you can create any type of Vault that can contain any type of nft so uh this is just it's utility and so we want we want people to you know be empowered by this technology to kind of do whatever okay cool thanks um if you have anything else to um show or explain uh you can otherwise I do have one question like specifically for for Vandal and actually I'll allow others to unmute themselves as well just because then you can also ask your own questions uh but so and this is I guess from your personal opinion um because as a musician yourself how do you see um having a a a a a tool or protocol like this would help um musicians to be able to like get their career out there without being like a slave to their music industry that that that is a great question because I think that this is um you know what musicians have been kind of searching for but didn't know existed um in a lot of ways the way the music industry is currently structured it's very centralized and uh you know um it's it's heavy on the top end around record labels it's bloated that there's a lot of things that are wrong with it and I think that what we're trying to do and what we're trying to build out here through all the all the different uh projects and networks that I myself am involved in is to kind of build out an alternative music industry and by you using these sort of protocols with with the vaults is actually you can you can have artist vaults so let's say I'm an artist I'm Vandal I create My Vault uh then I put all my songs into my Vault and anybody who buys the nfts of those particular songs like let's say I make a 100 copies of my K track right and then people purchase the nfts and I can create a vault around that song and then people who have that song can then deposit the song into the Vault and then create liquidity around that song so I think that it's pretty it's really empowering for for artists for record labels um especially for public lishing and Licensing and I think this is going to be the next evolution in terms of nfts when they how they apply to the music industry as opposed to just like a song and an artwork is we're going to be looking at how um publishing and Licensing can work through the through nfts yeah I saw oh I I saw an interesting news article and it it talked about how there was a a bundle of Music rights and it was owned by kind of a fund like a private wealth fund and I was like what a private wealth fund owns music rights and they sold it to someone else and it was a it was a bundle of Music rights it was like 10 I think it was close to $10,000 per song that these you know particular music rights went for and it was it was just managed in and all the the rights were bundled essentially in a trust company because trust companies are a great way to manage assets and so essentially with our WRA token protocol we can automate this process of deploying trust companies um I don't know if any of you guys have ever done that but it can be pretty expensive and timec consuming so we can eliminate that cost to you know 15 bucks and couple minutes I have some uh some feedback here this is Alexander from a by the way okay so so the for for wrapping in FS actually we've seen something happening in axi similarly too where people have created something called a wrapped origin contract so you can deposit some specific axes which have fungible assets to them so let's say origin axes they are a certain amount of them uh in existence you wrap them in there and then they can be freely traded so I definitely think there are some cool things that that are possible with this technology but uh from what I think is uh more interesting for the for the for the like the basically the IP the nft Creator rights is what you guys are also exploring right I think there is a problem right now that nobody's solving uh which is basically like like why are why should these artists be incentivized to create their own things on a blockchain like let's say even even the artists today when they are minting things un wearable at least they can set a amount of money that they get on each secondary Market that's when when your asset is traded but the reality is that if another platform is becoming too popular or will will kind of eat the rare's lunch the the artists are out of luck right because then they don't get any of that fee so I think that's a problem that needs to be solved at a protocol level almost or you need a new standard for nfts uh so that the original Ip creators like let's say that um they would get fees for every time something is is traded for something like like yours too like if they have nft wrs wrapped in a in an nft or artist wrs in an nft if they then would wrap it into something like your protocol what would happen to the the the trading fee that should go to the artists themselves or to the NFC Creator these are problems that that I think are pretty interesting to consider yeah it's definitely an interesting thing I mean I you could look at it like the you know what's technically happening so if I if I I am a creative person and I'm taking and putting something into this Vault protocol you know I'm essentially putting whatever it is I'm giving the rights of of this asset and I'm putting it into a trust so the trust therefore then holds the rights for that asset so I mean you can kind of look at it that way I guess um but but yeah I mean the wrapping cases are really cool we actually looked at um axi Infinity as a um potential one to launch with alongside avastar um so I mean that is that's definitely something we've we've looked into yeah there there there are options here a lot of people have wanted to rap Mystics as well I think there there are there are people who are considering I think the same problems that you are um I'm very curious to see where where this ends up but but as I said I'm more I'm more curious what what a new nft standard would look like where people would like eventually maybe even have to whitelist other people to allow them to wrap their nfts because the moment you can wrap an nft or the moment that you are free to do whatever you want with something the the the IP or the nft creator of that asset is potentially losing out on a lot of intellectual property rights which should belong to them because they are the creators I think that's a contrarian take in the crypto industry where everyone is so focused on ownership and so focused on the that play that that people should own everything but the truth of the matter is that the the IP owners and the creators they need to be able to benefit in the future for this to to actually be sustainable for everyone or if not that they probably won't be incentivized to create something on the ethereum blockchain at all totally I mean you I mean you kind of look at the alternative right and as Jason was kind of alluding to I mean the the music industry I mean he's more of an expert but the music industry is really topheavy and so you know just kind of giving some power back to the individual through this Technology Innovation um you know uh I I always like to I mean there is the Contra take but I always try and look at you know kind of the positive Spin and you know the positive spin to me is like everyone gets their own Trust Company and so you can create liquidity out of thin air and you know you're kind of you can do whatever you want with the creative content that that you produce if you want to sell it for a dollar each you can sell for a dollar each two dollars Etc okay cool I think we've uh somehow naturally segue into this uh kind of like discussion on nfts and uh in general um so three of you can just uh stay there if anyone has any questions on nfts or gaming in general I can um ask it for for uh the three um people we have here who are actively in the space um I do have one myself I'm just gonna ask it before others to um there's a there's a question just now uh that was asked about how how do you make sure that the same song isn't uh published Again by a different uh artist or a different person and if I can expand that to you know not just song but art or um let's say gaming item um I I guess specifically for like independent uh items like like art and and songs like how do you because I think this is also a question uh that that problem that varable is facing right now where uh you know someone can create a piece of art then someone else can just like get that image and then Min a completely new token that has exactly the same art um you guys have any thoughts yeah this is like an ongoing issue between the decentralized and and centralized platforms um I guess every platform is kind of centralized to degree or decentralized uh to a degree but to compare like let's say what we do with mint base and what rable offers is that you know our our smart contract uh on mint base is specific to Dow records so not anybody can go and mint on that so we actually curate the artists that come on board and that is the process that we take so that you can't have um I mean I guess someone else can publish something somewhere else like say on able that they would on our platform and then that would just kind of be identified as as a copy or or as like a a copyright infringement or a fake or whatever however would we call it someone you know um copying someone else's art and posting it up on reel like I think that that happens there um not to say that we need Gatekeepers but I think we need curators and and we need to sort of have the ability to to uh either empower the artist individually with their own minting contracts which they can do on all these platforms for the most part um but to try and like stop people from copying things is is uh I don't think we can we can do that so it's just about um making sure that the platforms are aware that there's a copy and then you flag it and take it down yeah yeah I think just opportunity to to flag it or that kind of stuff would help solve the problem I mean it's Community focused and so ultimately if the hands are in the you know if the decisions are in the hands of the community then um you know that it's kind of it will be up to the community to decide if if something is deemed you know a copy or whatnot yeah I I don't uh see rable as such a positive thing for the space right now actually I think uh that that you record it by the way yeah I think that's fine I mean as I said I I'm not I'm not afraid of saying this out loud either so um for variable I think the the there is no curation right now the the the there is just a shitload of fakes out there but I mean that that in itself can be solved because it's all rooting down to the to the people who are creating the original content right so if you are buying something uh you can very easily see who is the original Creator just by clicking on that wallet address and then you can even do a reverse Google search to see if this is original content for example so I mean that that in itself can can be solved but I'm mostly talking about the original creators who are for example creating their own marketplaces and varable or other like platforms are are taking that IP and letting and letting the the or trying to kind of capture market share by by being very open in a sense and I think openness is fine but as I said it's about how can we get original Ip creators to come into this space and the the the sad truth is that the more I come into the traditional kind of gaming industry and from that aspect I don't see what the benefit is for these big guys to come into the space and to put their IP on ethereum right now if there is no way for them to protect it and say that whenever people are trading my IP I should get a small cut of it and and that's just the way it is is for for things to to ACR value to my platform if you are opening everything up and saying that everyone can trade it and everyone can make money on something like that then then I mean that that's that's fine that's one way of doing it but I don't think that is sustainable for these uh for these companies in the end uh for open C I mean yeah you can take a small cut at least you can deliver a cut but but even then openc these guys are are the middleman the way I see it so I that's why why I'm not so convinced on rable as a business model or as a as a middleman I I I think that uh other people can can make that themselves too and that we need other ways to protect IP for for big parties if we're going to turn this into a mainstream thing yeah this is the problem also that we're trying to solve with the music is is that like traditionally record labels would have masters of songs right and then these Masters would be replicated and they would offer distribution rights and and uh licensing for manufact uring of CDs and and whatnot right so what we want to do is create Masters for artists as nfts and then those would be owned by the Masters and then those Masters can then be copied where uh fans can come to their site and then mint copies off of that Master uh with a uh royalty share going back to the artist every time that that copy gets um basically sold on the secondary market so that these are the kind of things that I think are are kind of like um that we need to solve in the IP like like Alex was saying I think is very important for the creators and finding a way that that we can protect that at the same time as allowing them to monetize it yeah I mean you're you're unlocking liquidity you're doing all these cool things which are amazing right but I have a feeling like we're overcorrecting in the in in a sense that okay right now everything should benefit the the the the end user suddenly they they randomly getting an amazing picture or something and then are the original Ip Creator is screwed uh so I mean for example if you consider that that's what happened back in the good old days amazing artists they were dirt poor their entire lives and people were selling their their amazing stuff uh for a lot of money right then suddenly I mean it's just not right so yeah I'm excited to see what happens in the long term yeah yeah well that's why that's why I think it's kind of cool that you can you could just deposit a whole bunch of your creative content you you don't have to then sell any of your individual I you know your value and then people can invest in just a social token right but that social token is directly relation you know directly related to the the items in the vaults so you know unlike kind of like you know just a dow where you know whatever the social token is you know this has direct relation no I really like that I think we're on the uh there is still a little bit of way to go but certainly social tokens that have backing with something that's like tangible I'm so tired to see people who are launch launching things and it's just like nothing re re there's no nothing like at all there it's just I'm going to go to do something amazing here okay great uh you do that I I would like to see more real things in the space well I mean I I saw a couple cool Dows where you know they had all these NFC items behind it but the that it was kind of managed by the Dow where you know and so that's how you had the value of the tokens attributed because of that you know how how we was managed but um you know you could just set the price behind the free market in this way yeah it's just different AR you saying uh no I was just saying uh we we are slightly past the 9:30 p.m. uh time and I don't want to keep people uh here longer than they should be uh so just going to quickly mention that uh Alex mentioned earlier about like there should be some sort of standard uh around uh these things and I feel like the um IP Creator uh are you guys aware of any standard that is being uh under works or if it has already been created uh that's probably very useful if there's like a EIP that covers this specifically to what so I can I can reiterate the problem here from from what I'm experiencing right now the the real issue is here if you're creating an asset or if you are an nft Creator and you're creating an asset and that asset can be wrapped that asset can be transferred uh freely right there is no way for the original Ip Creator to retain any value if it's like being traded for millions of dollars right so that in a sense needs to be programmatically figured out in a way but I'm not sure exactly how how that can be done so I had a discussion with our CEO who was more on the technical side I am a abys person uh By Nature so I'm not a colder or anything like that but I can see that this is a problem but I'm not sure exactly how that that can be solved other than whitelisting people to use your nfts and by that I mean let's say that uh you have closed nfts or you have nfts that can't be transferred except you are wet listed and everyone who is wet listing them they are forced to give you a royalty fee whenever they're trading but that still does not solve the problem of wrapping which is what happens when you wrap an nft and then that nft is being traded back and forth a lot of value is being accured but n none of it goes to the original Ip Creator uh unless you can have a white list there too so I'm not exactly sure uh or if this will even be something that the community would rally behind it's the first time I actually brought it up uh so I'm curious what you guys are thinking it's also about how you can uh for me it's the most important thing here is to to say that this is about for all creators I'm not thinking axi specifically here I'm thinking about axi I'm thinking about artists I'm thinking about other game developers other artists who are coming in bigger companies everyone has a vested interest in protecting their own IP and making sure that they can benefit from when it becomes popular um yeah and I think uh vendel you mentioned uh uh what midb and D records are doing of like uh you will check for uh uh like the original Creator and and I don't know how much of that is done like on the blockchain but if that perhaps could be expanded uh then it could be like a um a blockchain wide EIP and and then people have something to Rally around well this was more about um sort of curating right like kind of like what a record label would do is that not any artist can go and sign up for a record label and release stuff or release whatever they want CU um you know you never know if it's theirs or not um so this is kind of a way for us to kind of curate uh through our platform uh via mint base because we've been basically working with them for the most part in in terms of minting our artists so um yeah like it's again it's kind of the Wild West in a lot of ways and um I think you know Alex is right in terms of trying to figure out some kind of standard where we have um I don't know something embedded in the nft that will a automate is split every time it gets sold like that that way that the original creator of the content is compensated accordingly with a royalty um we're going to get there eventually I'm not the on the technical side either so um I'm sure there's a lot of smart technical people out there and if you're anybody who's in the audience listening who is one of those people you know um these are some some things to consider uh and we're always you know welcome to for assistance yeah so the optimistic thing is it's an open challenge uh for the industry as a whole uh to figure out this standard and yeah see if yeah if anyone is working on this please uh DM me or send me a Twitter message I'd love to connect with that uh because we will be considering something like this for the future I'm not exactly sure uh when this will happen uh if it will be now within the next six months or next 18 months but what I know is that this is a need for for the industry in general whether or not it will be a new nft standard upgraded nft standard or something totally different at a protocol level have no idea but uh yeah should be interesting to see uh what happens all right and on that note we're minutes fast so yeah I don't want to keep you guys here longer than uh uh than needed so uh thanks uh everyone uh thank you Alexander uh vandel and Jonathan uh for sharing your thoughts um so I'm just gonna I'm gonna end our official meet up um at this point uh if anyone wants to hang around and just like chitchat for uh maybe a few more minutes I'm going to keep the zoom up uh but if you uh need to leave or whatever uh no one's going to feel offended so yeah um so it's officially ending the meet up and uh yeah you guys want to chat chat then you can stay on all right thanks thanks you guys y thanks guys thanks R for staying up yeah yeah thanks Jonathan you guys see you Jason yeah take care Marco all right guys thanks so much harth for having us everybody out there I saw Jason Aaron sand the other Jason too you sound yeah thanks for having us you guys worries yeah thanks for staying up okay take all right bye all right take care ion too hey Aron my man see you