ETHOnline 💡 Idea Validation

uh sorry for uh being a little absent while i was running around getting stuff but yeah so welcome everybody to eat online idea session um idea validation session this is meant to be you know just a really quick intro to what you people are working on and we've got a bunch of great people there to give their intros who are going to be giving you feedback and the way we're going to do that is by splitting into two separate rooms uh andrew's going to be leading another one but we're going to start off in the same room just to get the idea of how it's going to go projects will have five minutes total to present what they're going over again this is meant to be a high level intro to what you're working on not necessarily a technical review or a solidity audit session uh we'll have time for those sessions later in the hackathon so remember keep it high level make sure to leave time for the panelists to respond and i'm really excited to see what people are building on i've already gone through the check-ins for almost all the projects and there's some really amazing ideas so um let's get this started and i'll stop talking so first up is jack sanford why don't you give us like a one minute overview of what you're working on and then we can get some feedback hey guys can you hear me cool uh yeah jack with the uh 20 pay team here so what we're building or thinking about building this hackathon is basically stripe for crypto is the quick way to explain it um so basically you're on an e-commerce payment page and you're a buyer you want to pay with whatever your favorite currency is and you're the merchant you want to accept whatever your favorite currency is and we basically take you on the back end through probably one inch uh or unit swap and do that transaction for you so that the buyer can pay in his currency it basically gets converted to the seller's currency um in order to accept the payment and what i'm looking for is what do you guys think about this and are there any cool sort of integrations or twists on this or you know features that come to mind that you think would be really cool thanks guys um trent i'll go cool yeah just jump in yeah um i i think it's definitely something that's needed right now um i i don't think that the actual exchange is going to be the hardest part or like the most important feature to people i think it being like easy to integrate and easy to use and easy to understand what your records are for the actual transactions and like um like the other services that like stripe provides uh when you integrate stripe like i think that's the value prop um but yeah i mean i think in general they're not being with the emergence of like um xdi possibly roll up soon uh there's definitely uh more opportunity to pay with crypto everywhere um but there's not really a tool that does it well that i'm plus one there on dev experience i think that was my exact first thought too i mean stripes should just be doing this first of all but since they're not someone else should needs to do it but basically it's all about me as an in developer can i just grab your your can i just npm install this thing and can it be a wonderful experience and very easy and and uh like scott said maybe this moves between different chains but all these side chains or l2s are all going to have this same exact interface you're going to deposit you'll wait a little bit and then you can send and receive quickly and then you withdraw right so wherever you've got that bat signal pointed i would say it's all about making the developer experience really great and making it really easy for a dev to pick it up and use it got it that's super helpful one thing i was just thinking i know scott said that maybe the the transferring might not be the the most important thing which like it makes sense like the the recipient can easily convert to whatever token they want i'm wondering if there's any like like tax or accounting reasons that businesses would prefer to exchange that they'd rather not like convert it on their own but they'd rather just get like usdc and not have to worry about like volatile assets so that could be a kind of a cool feature um and i'm not sure if that like kind of direction um uh affects the the interface at all or anything like in terms of knowing that like people might want to like not even like know about what the user's paying and they just want to know what they receive it so but overall for it right cool thank you any other comments [Music] all right cool thanks jeff for going first um so what's going to happen thanks guys now i'm going to we're going to break into two rooms so if you all of a sudden get a pop-up that says trent is pushing you into this room don't be alarmed you're just going to talk with some of the other people and then we can get through a couple more projects um let me see let me see where we're at in terms of sign ups sign ups um yeah i think we'll still split it so um why don't we have uh subarete or whatever however you pronounce that why don't you go next and then i'm gonna start splitting people into rooms again don't be alarmed if you suddenly find yourself somewhere else or get a pop-up all right cool okay cool yes hi um mikhail here um the name is saburet um i just sort of came up with it from the word superet um because basically we do have uh quite a few ideas um in our team but one of them that we've been working on the most today is about um is about subscriptions uh paid through micro payments um so kind of using the streaming micropayments thing um okay yeah i'm not the technical lead on this on this project i'm just the ux designer so a lot of my uh thinking and my crazy ideas are gonna be around um users and content creators mainly because this this idea would be to get content creators um um um to well okay well i mean well this is what would this could be for content creators who kind of want to get into the crypto space for um subscribers um and their content you know they can't expect like long form um subscriptions like yearly or monthly and so um our idea is to blackmake um very like short increments of time based uh subscriptions with micro payments um so so also there's just some high level ideas that we've got going on is that we might include an aspect of messaging like for notifications so that content creators can keep their followers um informed of like when they're doing special drops of their contents say like they're you know like they're dropping music and it's very special um kind of kind of version or something like that or they're a blogger or a writer or something like that um we also want to probably make use of maybe giving the content creator an ability to upload it onto ipfs and um have buckets so that they can um you know kind of you know you know keep access control over their content um yeah i mean there's so many great sponsor tech sponsors take in this in this hack like i've literally got a list of like 10 different ways uh we can use sponsor tech but i just wanted to get some ideas about how you think um people would like this this like kind of streaming micro payments for subscriptions first and chill the elite standard and sablier there's already a couple cool uh subscription based standards uh that's all i want to jump in then brian you go you go you go yeah i was just gonna say uh you know superfluid is one of the you know hackathon sponsors and they had a really cool thing that's like safely earned steroids that let you know kind of launch last week that would probably be a really good fit to look into um but you know there's a lot of music artists and a lot of digital artists who are looking for streaming micropayments right now that might be a really good audience to kind of hit into you know things like lost radio and a lot of other you know the rsc a bunch of them took in like last week as well hitting on that crowd for streaming micropayments might be an interesting opportunity to kind of dive into if you're looking for different use cases especially if we make an interface really great i mean because we've got um myself for ux designer we've got a front end developer on our team so we've made a really cool interface to connect all these different pieces together i mean we don't want to reinvent the wheel we just kind of want to put it nicely together yeah that's fine yeah i think one thing might that seems like kind of what you're hitting at um if you can like if you can like lower the commitment on the initial purchase without actually lowering the churn for like a fan that cancels their subscription that might be kind of like a unique um value prop of the streaming i think i haven't i know there's some streaming subscription fans amongst my other moderators on this call um i haven't quite seen someone package up the value proposition of having streaming payments very well yet and like i think if there's like a unique way to solve like a unique way to like i guess who's your customer and it seems like it's the content creator and like how do you solve a problem that that they have with the current system and like i think like one thing like uh if you look sort it's kind of unrelated but related to like if you look at bootstrapping and moloch now um one of the key things was is you weren't actually making commitment with your whole money because you can quit whenever you wanted once you joined and it seems like streaming payments might have that similar value proposition for like someone that's not really sure they want to pull the trigger on like a whole month or a whole six months or a whole year subscription so i don't know it might be like can i dive in market yeah one extra thing i have to i'm joining the other room but one thing that comes to mind is what you optimize for in terms of your subscript subscription creator or your subscribers with with for instance with nifty inc we optimized for the artists onboarding we we wanted you know either one side or the other is going to have to do the blockchaining stuff right and you kind of figure out which one you want to do the blockchain stuff whether i can set up a subscription without knowing or i know how to do the the blockchain stuff so i'll all deploy the subscriber and then all my subscribers don't have to know anything about blockchain so you kind of have to figure out which edge you want to use there okay i'm dive into the other one see you guys later thanks thanks oh yeah keep going if anybody else has any more suggestions uh and just disappoint i'm adding people manually to the second room if you've signed up there um i don't know if people can jump back and forth on their own but we'll get through it yeah so i mean so i mean i mean we've got i mean i've got a lot of other you know kind of ideas um to kind of squeeze into it but i mean i guess there would be also another way i mean to squeeze a sort of nft aspect to this is that maybe subscribers can pay in nfts or they could get nfts somehow as the content that they buy or you know i mean and then if that nft is on like a bonding curve or something then they get to get like a piece of it like yeah so i mean it's quite it's quite you're endless to kind of think about what they're actually buying and how much they're subscribing to it you know yeah one uh one interesting idea that you know with all people going around with streaming payments is that you can actually have the streaming payment go towards the owner of an nft um so if you're the creator and you hold the nft you can actually sell it to someone else it represents like that stream sort of in the same capacity so you're able to kind of sell the future advance of that stream as well right but the creator in that in that capacity can basically advance on their screen so they can get it all at one time instead of getting it there right it could be an interesting way to represent the liabilities in that stream as well so if you wanted to throw you know nfts in there that'd be one interesting way to do it i think the other way as you just mentioned is like permission content using nft um might be the other you know having an access key or something to present that content right yeah yeah definitely oh wow that's really great thanks thanks so much feedback awesome cool that was that was right on time actually cool thanks thanks everyone next up we have liquidation helper with andrew rudnick andrew hopefully i didn't move you to another room here nope i'm here can you hear me yeah go ahead all right so uh this idea is kind of like you know on top of ave where you can put in your ethers collateral to get out die if you want to continue to trade but um instead of uh having like a defined amount that kind of is a binary of you're either going to be liquidated at this price or not um the depositor could be opted to put in an extra like five percent or ten percent or however much that is and that amount would basically be a buffer zone that would be served or reallocated to like a ball that could serve interest or gain interest and if the collateral loses value and they're coming closer liquidation price they could the smart contracts would withdraw the interest bearing collateral and kind of add that to the collateralized amount to protect their uh you know their loan um another way of looking at it would could be if there was a way where people could have allowed people to kind of add on to their collateral to kind of protect them as like a helper then someone could top off uh you know low health meter uh loans and they could get some sort of reward for that as well kind of like helping um cloud collateral depositors you can generally apply this uh to many different you know uh kind of cloud i guess you know uh yoda aggregates right like you can uh think of it as like if if you know collateral ratio like goes below this pull um pull stake from any of these like money markets right uh so i could imagine like you building just like a generalized uh trigger uh framework for like you know pulling you know money out of anything and then sticking it back into and turning into diet sticking it back into vaults yeah um i i would this it's not not that it means you shouldn't do it but it it sounds a bit uh it sounds like what uh there's a app called defy saver um that i think think has a decent decent amount of subscriptions uh to it and it essentially uh does kind of what you described i'm not sure if it's exact overlap with the feature set that you said you wanted and so i definitely just like check out what they're doing and how yours might be different or how it might improve improve what they're doing also say that one of the biggest pain points in developing like a system like this is that there's a lot of d5 protocols and there's a lot of new d5 protocols but your existing integrated d5 protocols are also kind of changing as those projects ship new code um and kind of like figuring out how to scale um your ability to like safely integrate users um while the protocols are dynamic kind of underneath your feet is is a pretty big challenge for anyone like doing these sorts of services but the services are important to users and i think there is a real problem being solved by building it yeah so scott this would kind of be like defensive you deposit you know die and it you know when it's needed it's kind of like it's pulled into a vault right the idea is like it's not really earning uh interest while it's setting that so it's like imagine so you know ah sorry i forgot to shut that idea but you know uh they were talking about like basically uh stick that into say about a rival or any other place that ends interest and when it's seated pulls it out so like the idea potentially is that you could build on top device evo well you you know imagine you talk to them and figure out how you can like you know create a trigger where it's like you want to put in my own you want to put in whatever actual like uh vault or anything right um you could even be a liquidity pool if you want perhaps and just convert into dye and put it back in just kind of run it more dangerously yeah yeah are you safely running closer to the line but it's like squeezing really milking out like you know your yields right like um i mean for really large uh defy savo like i mean for really large bolts you need a ton of diet right to really save them so it could actually be pretty useful like because otherwise you know i'm not i'm not aware that this feature is available and i'm there's a project called gelato finance that also does this if this and that uh like kind of smart contract triggers um so i could imagine like this plus like defensive it could be very interesting if you put them together yeah no i mean that does that does sound interesting um because i mean there is like for any given amount of yeah no that that is that is cool because you get like the same safety but more uses your capital same safety level yeah all right that is five minutes unless anybody has a quick comment to close it out but we're going to move on to the next team if that's all right thank you great uh next up alex conway the name of the project is community engagement or maybe that's just the general idea but i'll let him explain yeah hello world um can i share my screen uh what's it for uh just i think it will make it easier to explain but uh as long as you don't have like a huge slide deck but go ahead yeah oh no no no just uh just like three quick things uh you see a screenshot of a tweet maybe maybe you don't have screen share capabilities let me get that to you why don't you start talking to begin you know all right sure uh so i was randomly researching nexus mutual and came across this meme community on twitter the nexus mutants they're kind of like the synthetic spartans and the chain link marines they're just this like meme community on twitter and uh there was a post that said add hashtag nexus mutants to your twitter bio and get the mutant token for our secret nexus cast inner circle chat and um i thought that was super cool um and below that is you know once you've done so dm me with your ether address i'll send the tokens all in one go to save gas uh and then he was complaining quite a matter process uh so i thought that was pretty interesting and i started doing some research and discovered this whole world of social tokens and i actually came across this coin gecko panel which is great with uh brian flint who's on this call shout out brian and cooper turley and alex mismatch who issued his own social token and um i uh i posted on the on the twitter thread about it i was like because they were saying in the panel one of the biggest problems with social tokens is distribution you know getting these tokens in the hands of your community because there's cool things you can do with them like uh only allow you inside a discord if you hold a certain number of these tokens like uh prince jan token you you can only read his newsletter on outpost if you hold a thousand jam tokens which i think is really cool it's like a great way to align incentives with the community and so uh i i mean having seen this nexus mutants thing i i posted a tweet on the twitter thread asking you know like what do you think about giving away social tokens in exchange for engagement on twitter like the first and retweets on tweet you know kind of like social mining in contrast to liquidity mining and um yeah alex smith replied like there's potential simple resistance problems but it sounds like a good idea and then the next day he uh did a sort of social experiment uh where he tried this so yeah it doesn't look like i'm gonna share my screen so i'll post a link to the tweet that he put in in the chat but um yeah sorry i think that's turned off for this session um but feel free to share oh it's all good it's all good so um so yeah so he trying to find the here we go so i'll push this in the chat right quick but um yeah basically he did the social experiment and um he said i'm giving away five dollars in alex tokens the first hundred people who retweet this tweet and follow me um i'll dm you a link to claim in 24 hours and then he said if this works and i'm growing this full number of ex token holders by 25 and then the next week like a few minutes later was uh i started giving out rewards but got caught by twitter's algorithm for messaging too many people um and it ended up getting closed in in 17 minutes you had like 150 retweets and uh yeah it seemed like quite a success so basically we're building a way to automate this process and rather than being like a push mechanism where alex has to go and manually dm all people make it a pull mechanism where uh he just says like go to xyz.com alex and you go there you log in with metamask you verify your twitter kind of like doc farce you just tweet like i'm verifyingxyz.com and your ether address which also has like a nice viral loop in it and then we uh we have a bot that like checks if you're one of the first hundred retweeters and then allocates utopians so that's sort of what we're building i'll stop there it's funny alex and i just chatted briefly this morning about his idea so we i kind of gave him some feedback already on this but uh you know one of the things i told him was that when you're actually earning a token for kind of a lightweight proof of work without being engagement or retweeting or something like the community you know might not be long-term engaged just looking at it as free money so that was kind of like my biggest criticism but uh otherwise like you know everyone's looking for new ways to distribute social tokens especially to their loyal followers or retroactively so i think there's some you know potential in that capacity but uh yeah curious what peter and scott think yeah uh makes total sense uh i think like you want new what's really hard about like social tokens are great right um and i guess well just like community tokens and taking creative chats the really hard thing is actually figuring out a way to distribute them easily and yeah like i would definitely say like you know creating a bud or some sort of automation that would be pretty awesome just like checking who retweeted first or even like um you know i think uh in even if like zapier if this and then that you can check like the bio you can query i think like the bio of like uh twitter profiles right so you could probably do something where like you know you check the profile of like uh different people right um yeah but generally like i think this would be the easily the next uh natural extension of this of the trend yeah actually sort of like this type of civil resistance um was actually the very very first proof of concept that i ever tried to be a part of building back in 2017 um and it didn't go anywhere obviously the name of our umbrella org is still named after it so when we have to actually tell people what our company name is they're like what the hell is that it's like oh yeah it's this random proof of concept that went nowhere but i think this is like a very good idea in a space where you don't want kyc bots are pretty it's pretty hard to make fake twitter accounts that look very convincing um and so you get adversarial fast if your system scales but i think in general it's like a fun thing and the space might be big enough now where it makes sense cool thanks for the feedback anything else any final comments did you say how you're going to work on or how you plan to uh what's the how do you close the loop between bots just commenting on thing on things um yeah i mean we don't have a a really good solution to that i mean one solution is to take a snapshot of your twitter followers at a point in time and then only allow people who were following you before you began this to participate the other is like yeah put a captcha on the place where you claim and yeah i mean needing to verify your twitter both of those things make it harder but i think fundamentally it's a cat-and-mouse game with bots like you can never really stop this sort of thing it's definitely a problem so let me know if you have any thoughts or ideas on how to tackle that you can just like let someone else verify it via twitter you're like responding with a tweet like human verification of bots i would actually say roughly is fairly cheap and quick um what's really hot is like just the manual like collection of uh addresses and like you know uh sending it on chain and so on um yeah like yeah so i think we can automate the collecting the addresses figuring out who qualifies for the drop and doing the sending um yeah i mean the having people verify each other is interesting i mean that's also potentially gameable but it is really interesting yeah i mean we could potentially do some kind of like governance token thing and staking and like get fancy but yeah we're just trying to get an mvp ship for now cool thanks for sharing your idea alex next up we have cool deep and machu picchu project oh yeah hi guys uh so basically like uh our team is here sharing the name is also here so basically what we're doing are trying to do is like help our farmers of a particular country so uh like farmers uh lose a lot of carbs because of uh climate and all those things right and uh like they have to uh like uh pay for those all those things and suffer the loss also so what we came up with the system like it used to happen uh annually uh in villages right now also but uh like it's kind of like all the farmers of a particular village or in a country they can deposit something to a particular part right and uh for from that part uh like we will assess the farmers uh crop vegetation using satellite images and then we can check like if that particular group of farmers has lost uh the crops or not and based upon that we can uh give them compensation from that part where they contributed actually so this is basically like the idea that we are trying to uh solve and for that the flow that we have this idea is like we will have three kind of members in our system uh the first one will the farmers only the second one uh will be the waters and the third one will be the enablers so the role of farmers is basically to go to our enabler and get themselves registered so uh like uh get its variation means like they can go there get the addresses for them and make contribution to the pod because we know that farmers uh don't have enough resources to use blockchain on their own kind of thing right so that's why we want to have to have enablers who can register the farmers and uh to the contribution process on behalf of them right and then we have the watchers all over the world who will do one thing is like they will uh use the satellite data to watch over the crops of those farmers right and they will give their feedback uh let's say thousands of watchers give their feedback for a particular field uh sixty of them says like yeah uh the graphics has been destroyed and forty says no now whatever the majority based upon that the enabler will uh calculate the compensation for the farmer and they want that farmer with the composition so that he don't have to suffer the loss kind of system so for that we are typically uh going to look for several things actually like for creating the console farmer which we are using for this for the wallet thing and we actually need one otp system because farmers don't know anything about blockchain right so we need something at and so that they could be aware of the things like how many tokens do they have like uh is there an account there or not on all of those inside and we need one social token for the watchers so that they can uh be like social token i mean it's a reputation token so that we can judge like if this watcher is uh working uh doing the doing his work correctly or not kind of thing so there's a lot of things i know but the basic thing is helping the farmers using using the satellite data the waters will see those data and will just compensate the performance it is asynchronous yeah so i basically i have three question like how can i develop otp system on the blockchain second is like how can i use a wallet for the farmers and third one is like how can i generate a reputation token for the waters going down so am i i i got a bit confused because your project seems a little too serious for this forum um so the the problem trying to be solved is that uh like if a farmer wants to buy insurance they like have to trust it's like crop insurance right yeah we can say that it's kind of an insurance kind of thing yeah but like a very minimal pay from the farmer's side kind of yeah wait say it again uh like farmers will not have to pay a lot uh like there will be uh blacks and lots of farmers there and they will contribute very minimum but the compensation would be good enough for like i mean it sounds it sounds pretty interesting um in that like if if you have a way to sort of like you're kind of creating like a human a human driven oracle on like whether the crops were successful or not right uh yeah so uh for that what we have is like we all we have a system already developed that's an earth observation system where like using that we can see at a particular field that is actually using uh thousands of images from satellites to judge like whether the wheel has lost or not kind of thing right so yeah manually by watchers but those waters will actually stake in our system and then do the assessment part if if they do it wrongly then their state will be lost and if they do it up like in a better way they will be rewarded kind of yeah are you familiar with a keynesian beauty contest is that game game theory construct because this this could um if you need a way to like punish the wrong watchers and reward the correct watchers um it's kind of a way to um i put the wikipedia in the chat yeah um yeah it's sort of like a way to get a bunch of people to like be incentivized to to say the correct answer um without having anyone need to judge the group which might kind of solve a bit of a problem if you have people guessing wrongly like how do you adjust reputation and if you use like the keynesian beauty context uh keynesian beauty contest game that might make that part of the system system simpler um okay yeah yeah okay and the second question was regarding otp so let's say farmers will go to enablers and they will say uh they will give some 10 000 rupees to the enablers like uh make us address address for us and deposit this to the pot kind of right how will farmers know like uh that those enablers are doing the correct thing or not so we want to send some otp and something to the farmer so they have some access so can i do that using on chain or something like using chain link or something is that possible um you you might just the farmers will have like uh will the farmers have like an android phone or no no no we can say like they will have something we can send sms basically some deserts kind of thing i'm not sure if anyone's kind of like created like an sms way to send and receive uh i know chain link uh chain link uh gives a way to have some random number so i can generate random number in our smart contract but how will i be able to send that to farmers mobile number mobile actually that's i'm not sure yeah i'm not sure either i'm sorry yeah i think i think in general it seems to like it it's it seems to use blockchain in like an interesting way to solve some of like the problems that a more traditional business might have to approach this market um but yeah if they have an android phone you can just use the wallet on the phone yeah yeah not from our side also like we can provide the farmers uh this platform directly they can use it directly but uh we know the reality like they they don't even use computer system so using blockchain very very different thing okay uh one more question i have uh like farmers will go to enablers for the account like creation of accounts and uh deposition and all those all those things right now uh those enablers will have access to the private key of the farmers kind of fight so how how can i uh what what system can i come up with so that i can uh stop enablers from you like misusing those private key or something like that wait why why would they need to have access to the private key uh because farmers cannot use uh let we are going with a thing like farmers cannot use a system directly because uh people do they just have a simple mobile and don't have access to internet or anything right just a scenario so in that case uh yeah yeah there's no solution that comes to mind right now i don't know if anybody else has thoughts on that well do the enablers have phones i'm assuming they do right yeah yeah let's say they have a system yeah they have system i mean the only thing is if you if you if the farmers trust the enablers that they have you know uh clients that aren't hacked or whatever then you can trust that if you type in a password on their phone they could generate a private key you create an address use it for that one time and then discard it and if you trust that the phone is discarding it then that's as good as you're gonna get really okay yep yeah that's good idea like like generating a password every time the phone is logging up kind of thing yeah like just deterministically generate a private key off of some something that only the farmer knows and you just have to hope that the phone that they're typing it into is not saving it yeah yeah this is a tough problem because you're trying to it's worth solving but it's you're trying to do this thing over sms um where are you just trying to reach people that uh may not be the typical market for crypto currently everybody on twitter is you know a completely different use user base this is super interesting one thing i'd love to see is this your architecture written out just so i can understand it a little bit better um do you have any sort of diagrams or something you can share don't have to do it now but after after the session that would be good to see just so i can understand it better actually another thing you could do if you think about it is you can have like some in the community some trusted place that they can go to to generate their private key and and and address and it comes on the paper and then just like two qr codes and then they keep private key at home and they bring and every time they go out to talk with the enabler or deal the enabler they just bring their address uh qr and then that way that way they have it they don't need a phone and they can just and they can execute the unable to check the chain for them or whatnot yeah but if you have an another role for the uh generation party like that's again going to be some human being actually if you say right they can still have uh they can cheat farmers yeah but at least having that one place maybe where you know it's safer and then all the decentralized enablers don't have to trust them as much no i just wanted to um remind cool deep about um blue whether we needed to ask the question on bloom or whether we'll leave that for now gloom chain link so uh what we also thought of thought of is like uh for enablers like whosoever is going to be enablers uh we can do one thing like we can verify their identity using bloom that's one of the sponsors right so like we can also get some idea from you guys uh like how how we can use bloom because once we have identity of the enablers and like we can impose some security at least kind of yeah i think i think the questions that are sponsored specific are probably best if you just go directly to their channel um and yeah don't don't forget to share any diagrams you have in discord i'd be curious to see that unfortunately we got to move to the next team because i know there are a bunch of other people sign up but thanks for sharing that idea cool deep and i look forward to seeing how it gets refined okay yeah thank you awesome next up is the carbon credit project yes that would be me hello everybody my name is sohail uh so we have a tv team of four we are looking into carbon credit projects and we are aware that this is not the first attempt to to solve this problem there is this um another another uh project uh co2 toucan i think and have tried to do that but um here's what we are doing on top of that is that we are trying to create some erc20 tokens to first of all we want to invite people or the organizations or ngos or even and government agencies that issue carbon offsets or common credits to to either there there are two ways of doing that either we get their permits from them and we convert them to a erc20 tokens or we ask them to register on the website to directly means the crc 20 tokens that are more standard way of creating these carbon credits and then people could come and buy and sell this carbon credits so we have another component in that you're thinking about putting an automated market maker to to create a market for these tokens so people can buy and sell and our target is not necessarily custom consumer level our target is mostly industries and the bigger you know energy industry other people that could this is not something that has been resolved right now because of the customer level there's less maybe um incentives to do that but for uh for a bigger company's energy incentives they want to do that there's some of them want to do it in a voluntary basis some of them have to do it because of the place they're working at and that way we could basically track their carbon tokens and we want to also want to partner with people that monitor this how much they are actually using the carbon credit for and then they can send it back for to us so we can burn it and give them an nft as a record of that yes they basically use this carbon credit in this year and this is the amount they use so they can keep these nfts as some sort of a badge to show or to you know i don't know distribute to other people and then we can track all of these uh erc20 tokens their cycle because another problem with the carbon credit is that it's kind of they kind of get lost nobody can know where what happens to them like a portion of them is just nobody knows whether it's used or not used and then there is like a secondary market are not very clear the price of these uh uh carbon credits are not very clear it might change uh a lot from location to location so we're trying to put some standard in place so hopefully we can standardize everything or help to do that so that that's the idea um i would love to get an input on any aspect of it especially we are a little bit not clear on an amm part of it do we do we use some sort of a pull in maybe um unisop or somewhere to pull the liquidity that way in for this or do we write our own amm and just create a you know user interface for that that that would be a great thing if somebody can join me on that i think one of the things that might be useful is um for the the nft in itself um like you're gonna need a way to have that attached to an organizational level it's really hard to have nfts kind of live like you know who actually owns those keys is this individual user is it the organization in some sense um being able to have that in a multi-sig like gnosis multisig or something those would just show that that has the nft might be a good solution for that so you can have multiple organizations holding that as an nft um people you usually use verifiable credentials um to represent when someone has like proof of doing something in the past um so you know i think using three box is a good solution to kind of like show like your actual identity and showing that you've actually you know offset your carpet credits in that capacity um the other thing that comes to mind that maybe scott is about like maybe using gas token as a reference here also how the gas token market works and how people provide the videos like a gas token might be an interesting um way of thinking how to how to provide the pudding and using it on the market maker to you know for people to actually interact with this thing um because a lot of the applications in the space are just using gas they're going to upset a lot of the spikes in gas so yeah they're going to be on the gas stove do you mean this these are the are we talking about ethereum gas token or are we talking about the actual yes yes um how does uh are the carbon credits are they like how are they created right now are they like fungible or like what what is a carbon credit they are they are this is not unified at all different jurisdictions have their own model so for example european union has its own thing that they they issue those kind of carbon credits then we have california and united states that issue their own carbon offset credits these are right now like a physical and i'm understanding is that physical documents they basically yeah okay okay yeah that's what i was wondering one so uh i know one of my friends uh used to trade i don't know if you're familiar with them rins like the renewable identification numbers it's definitely a market that's already had has been trading in the past and it's similar to these like documents um one thing that like maybe an interesting problem so the clearing of the exchange of these is terrible right because it's like let me reassign this document to you in this market i think it's reassigning like a specific uh renewable identification number um one so in ethereum you have the idea of nfts and then erc20s which are just non-non-functional like fungible tokens right so if you can find a way to create uh to basically turn nfts into fungible tokens uh the one thing people have talked about for a while and there may be someone doing it soon there may not be is there this uh ethereum based collectible called cryptopunx which is like a pixelated picture of a crypto punk not super important um but they're trying to wrap these nfts into like a vault and then launch an erc20 fungible token on top of that so rather than me and you trading one specific crypto punk or one specific carbon document or one specific renewable identification number um we can like create fungible version of that and have a different type of settling and clearing mechanism for them um if you can tokenize the carbon credits and then let people like put their tokenized version of the document into the vault and then i'm just trading erc20s from that right then you can sort of like create a common clearing house like like a simple clearance so you can do it so just as jump jump you can do this with niftex right now um so the the whole point of neckjacks is like to take nfcs and shot them into many different factions right you can shot them on manic uh it's a bit cheaper you can shout them on the ferry maintenance which is wait no no no i'm talking about the other way you're talking about sharding and everything i'm talking about like taking groups of nfts and turning them into fungibles turning in the years of twenties so there would be like taking rather than just they're crazy so you wanna create a basket of entities and then shove them uh collectively yes put a koi into the koi pond and you get one koi pon share i would so recommend potentially chatting to the niftex crew uh the mostly working on this as well for the next release okay yeah thank you very much it's kind of like it's kind of like whale as well right so one more question do you guys think we need to also store this original i mean at least the scanned version of these nfts or this documents documents on on a chain is it any reason for us to do that or i mean we are if we don't do that we are asking people to trust us right i mean i think if you even if you upload a picture of the document on chain they're still gonna have to trust you okay yeah yeah i don't know it get there's definitely like this on-chain off-ramp like right centralized trustful bridge it's a tricky one but you put it on chain to distribute it right and for interesting things such as price discovery you know like even for one credit you know you could fractionalize it and then like you know figure out how to like uh how people how the market you know values it right so it's more efficient than kind of msc's themselves the cool things about like these clearing house businesses is they are hard to bootstrap probably but if you can bootstrap it like the market will probably like just use yours until you mess it up you can probably create a much more efficient like credit uh like market by tokenizing all of them into yeah 20s and then almost like using uh stuff like balancer pools right to like it's like you know to basically shed liquidity pools for all of them so that you don't have to like create liquidity for every single like carbon credit if they're kind of roughly if they if you if the kind of price this uh roughly more or less the same right depending on like if they don't matter right if these discretionary details don't matter then like they can technically share but can't share common liquidity people right so you're saying that because there might be different type of carbon credits and we might need to mean different type of erc20 and we can put it on okay yeah um it's one way or you can but i can turn in the basket right and do it like whale like a whale took it like there's like a token called whale where you know it's a they're like a famous like collector of nfts and they've they've like this million dollar worth of entities in like one basket they've like basically gone ahead put in one account and they've like you know created tokens ownership over it i'm not entirely sure about i'm not i think brian maybe you know like about whether like the tokens actually uh entitled complete ownership or but initially it was kind of just like you have tokens you vote on it i control it but i'll do what you you say idea though right yeah i'd also check out air swap a little bit because they have like some really easy otc stuff and um if you were to like just dm with someone you can then send them like the offer to trade in like text um they would then let them like do and do like an otc transaction if that was how the market was gonna flow perfect thank you very much everybody that was very useful awesome uh i'm going to move peter over to the next room because david has to drop by peter everybody wave bye thank god no just kidding uh and we're gonna keep going in the main room we've got about six more projects uh we're making good time here so next up was athlete tokens rob do you want to start off hey guys um yeah so we're we're trying to uh gamify athlete performance um so the way that we're trying to do that is with uma um and we're trying to uh mint player tokens that essentially track athlete performance so our plan is to use like a rolling average of like 10 or 15 games during a season which represents the players average stats and then if they perform better than that average um the price of that token will go up perform worse and that price of that token would go down so one of the things that we're struggling with is when to mint the tokens and how to do so so our plan now is to mint long tokens as well as inverse tokens so you know one would be betting on the price going up one or the performance going up the other on the on the performance going down um and we're kind of struggling with uh how to build this so that us as the kind of the builder of the marketplace has uh as close to a 50 50 split and really zero net position uh overall so with uma we need to mint tokens with some collateral and uh we're kind of curious how we can um mint these tokens and then when people are ready to redeem them um they can either sell to someone else if they choose to or um they can sell i guess back to the marketplace um so that's one of the things that we're working on is how to uh get us enough liquidity on the platform so that there's always a buyer for any seller any seller for any buyer and people kind of have enough liquidity to exchange these tokens and get out of their positions when they need to um yeah yeah how would the tokens like track the 15-day moving average yeah so we're gonna pull in uh sports stats from an api like espn or there's a bunch of them um and then channel those through a price feed in uma so the price feed would kind of aggregate all of those stats and then spit out almost like a player rating or like a 2k uh score um you know common like in a video game you know players get a rating and then from there that would uh correlate to a price so we would map you know some player rating to a price and then uh we would pull that in through an api and the price fee would get validated by the uma uh oracle okay so what if rather than having like a long token and a short token for like babe ruth's performance um what if you just like had like um let's say we were just doing like the home run gambling the home run prediction markets token um what if it was like shares of total home runs or like shares of total points scored that way i rather than minting a long and short token for one particular asset i would mint like all touchdown passes for all quarterbacks token right and so it's like others like the tom brady one um there are other sports ball quarterback ones and then you have like the field for whichever ones aren't part aren't included in there and then you don't have to worry about long shorts you can just kind of have like all the tokens with a cap and then you don't have to worry about like let's say there's just way more touchdown passes in this in this in the sports ball season than last sports ball season right and then everyone wins and then the you're out money um if they all just can collateralize each other more like a paramutual type of type of a skill game um that might be more fun so at dapper we built this game called nba top shot which basically tokenizes actual plays themselves as nf tvs and so if someone were to do better and so theoretically the price would go up in some capacity it might be interesting i think there was also a project called hash fleets that was built two years ago that basically tokenized um you know players themselves as nfts and then trying to get more like fantasy game around it um but there's a lot of learnings there that can kind of um you know how players actually have their performance parked over time and bought and sold it's a really hard problem when a few teams have tried this i think one other interesting method that you know it's really sexual and just previous is using auger outcome chairs um you know to represent you know if like a player is doing well in some capacity um there might be very low liquidity for that type of thing um but uh it might be like i just put an example in the chat kind of exchange which is about the outcome shares of the presidential election i think you can probably do something similar with sort of uh player outcomes and their performance over a period of time um the one issue that i'm worried about of using your 20s is just the liquidity on each of these tokens and you know how many people are willing to buy and sell especially if there's you know if it's very kryptonite you're probably going to want to pick and choose you know which players you have you know at first until you build some substantial volume around it yeah and also if you do plan to launch anything like this uh that's not with play money um there's like a very fine line between what is like sports betting that will get you sent to prison and what is like skill gaming or like the various like exemptions or like daily fantasy sports exist in and you probably if you want to launch it with real money please hire probably what will be expensive lawyers before you do it yeah because we are going for the fantasy game type of setup where it's a skill game and people can organize a team and that's kind of like a a layer two or three that we want to build is some sort of leaderboard or head to head match-ups where we can you know coaches can organize their team and they can pit uh their team against someone else whether that's for a prize or just to be at the top of the leaderboard that's kind of what we're going for um yeah sorry yeah there's a lot of stuff just yeah be like uh kind of before i was in ethereum i was really into the daily fantasy uh world and uh back then there weren't the laws hadn't been like refined yet and so you could just call it skill gaming and like you might just have to pay a lot of the big companies just had to pay fines later uh now those lots have been refined and like the gray area is a lot narrower um so just you know do you do research okay um do you guys have any suggestions as far as like how to organize um well i i guess a more general question is what's the idea behind um nfts versus erc20s like with respect to this idea because i i had in mind erc 20s just so that people could pull them off of our platform and uh maybe to increase liquidity they could take their uh player token say babe ruth token and go trade it on uniswapper you know some other decentralized exchange um what would be the reasoning behind nfts rather than erc20s oh one benefit you get out of nfts is that um it also acts as a collectible as opposed to just like a bet on that player doing well um so you can have a lot of people buying something just for what's other reason of the player doing well in some capacity right maybe it's like really nice art maybe it's like a really cool play they did or something right i think that's sort of like dapper's philosophy on it as well um like you can actually put the nfts together to make a team sort of like the ultimate team or something along those lines right where you have sort of the same setup just using nfts it's hard to do that with with your c20s right um so uh i think yeah i think i think the nfts um might be the better approach here especially if you're trying to go for more like this the the skill based thing where you can actually assemble the team um and it'd be a lot more playful uh and in some regard um the other uh example that i'm thinking about today crypto native is forex um they're kind of like a crypto native exported sports betting thing that can be you know that uses 020s that can be a good um thing to look at as well for for reference do you mind dropping that link in the chat i'll do that awesome thanks appreciate it perfect okay we're gonna keep going the next team up is mario um with your open source lp dashboard just go ahead oh hi hi everyone um i'm mario from mexico um yeah so i'm uh i'm building like uh i'm calling it the liquidity provider dashboard from automated automated market maker exchanges um so i'm starting with um say with uniswep and uh well first i'd like to hear your feedback um on giant on this concept and um and if it's uh worthwhile to have a hosted version i'm thinking like both versions will probably be useful or or just focus on an open source on project that people can run from their own on computers um yeah so so just um like any any feedback i haven't seen any other um um like um defy dashboard like the event or um or sapper that that shows the data that would be useful for for market program yeah for the query providers um so so this would be sort of like a a site that would be a place where you'd like kind of make decisions about what are good things to find liquidity in and what are not as good things like how to allocate your assets yeah potentially but but like for the first like minimum viable version just like figure out um the address the user's positions on on on on different um pools and calculate on their uh return on investment and probably um not just like the the like the two days or the current return investment but but like just show also the trend and and maybe some other metrics like volatility in that in that specific pool and stuff that can be useful with regards to um to evaluating on your positions yeah i mean i think i don't i don't have a place where like i do that right now like like that specific question right now so it's definitely i think something the market's not meeting um the things that like i feel like are especially missing um would be like uh you're having some idea of like what impermanent loss was suffered versus the trading fees you know and like did i have a day by day p l like anchoring from some type of impermanent loss um and then also sort of like some of the interfaces kind of default to very short look back windows like 24 hours and like just because something had a really lot of trading last 24 hours that's probably not something you'd want to make a three week decision on um so yeah i think it's definitely like as like an mvp there's if you can kind of like find an insightful way to like let people sort that more um yeah it's definitely i don't at least i don't know if a place exists in the market but there's also a little bit of a problem um and maybe it does exist and i just don't know about it because uh sometimes sort of like a dashboard that shows you one piece of information like this it's a little hard to like uh create sort of like a an awareness engine that'll make people know about it so kind of like having something in the platform that like will help the platform grow maybe from the beginning even i think might be like if you can figure out a way to get that and it might grow it might be useful but if people don't have a reason to share it and talk about it people won't know about it you know yeah like some sort of incentive you mean um i mean i i wouldn't like i mean maybe not financial incentive but sort of like social incentive or like social status signaling type of incentive yeah um like some sort of like kind of growth hack like that yeah examples in the chat actually um that i've seen done while i was just showcasing like liquidity pools and return on investment and um permanent laws um i think the scouts point they're not widely used people don't really talk about them that much um mainly because um you know there's just such a long tail of tokens and so many different full sources that it's really hard to um you know track which ones are useful and which are not you know i think the just don't want your holes in this apartment it's really hard to see what you should actually be entering so it's really you know not that useful in the majority of cases but if you want to limit it to a certain number of poles or certain type of source then maybe it could be more useful on some capacity yeah yeah i i know pulls um [Music] fyi like i'm i'm i've also seen like a few people post like excel sheets pictures of excel sheets they used to track their positions and i'm thinking more towards that end of the spectrum like heavy on the on the data analytics um parts um also what you were saying about about um and maybe this can go towards my second question which is a bit more technical i don't know if you guys might have uh some suggestions for this and it goes to what you were saying about the like the long tail of pools um so the way i was thinking of implementing this was let's um i'm focusing on on uni swap to start right and um the graph has a really nifty um sub graph for uni swap where you can get um we can get like the open lp positions right the problem with getting this is that a lot of people have their their lp tokens in random farms right so that that end point doesn't show this but i was thinking another path towards some towards getting there would be there's like an lp position snapshots an endpoint and then you can see um like any at any point you had you had any any lp token like the others was holding any lp token and then i'm taking calling like the etherscan api and um filtering all the transactions that involve that lp token for the address in question and then um get um towards what address that transaction was made figure out that address is a contract that i can check the balance and total supply for and then um check if that address has an lp position on um on the on the original pool that the lp token belong to and then with those data points i think i can construct the the lp positions even if if the tokens are in some form i know there's like a more direct way around this and i'm just complicating stuff there's a ton of emergent complexity and it's a really hard problem and it gets worse every week that's the short answer maybe just building something that solves that problem would be amazing thing that people would pay a ton of money for but yeah just figure out um where where the actual positions are even if they're in random farms you mean just solving that issue yeah like all of d5 is like turning into like russian dolls kind of yeah in a sense um but yeah no that's it's a hard problem and i struggle with it in our businesses too so yeah i see well well i'll let you know how it goes okay [Laughter] appreciate the feedback thank you guys thanks mario all right uh the last project we have for room one is oracle sandboxing hey everyone uh can you hear me all right i have to put a mask on because another co-working spot okay um so yeah we're working on a sort of oracle sandboxing testing uh application um so the purpose of this is to assist adapt developers that require integrating um especially off chain data and feeding into their into their gap um to run the application um it's inspired because you know in my business we're working with uh electrical grids and we're looking to you know take into account um uh smart meter data and we think that you know this is something that a lot of dapps are gonna be using to to build out into the real world so we thought a tool kit that can be sort of a go-to for adapt developers would really help um you know one of the main goals is to build a standardization process i was like the engine of this um so there can be a grading system uh that kind of abstracts away a lot of the specific thought and context and doing something that adapt developer can simply play with and see the results based on the ratings engine in the middle of this um so uh i'm sorry so we're looking to basically take into account um in the in the rating system um data source coming from or where it comes from what it is different oracle tech available and plugging that in different functions of the um on your smart contracts and the amalgamation emaculation of of your smart contracts to create your dap and how that all comes together in a you know certain risk profile and then deliver that to the app developer so they don't have to think about all that um we're looking to actually make it into like a an actual interface where you can move around components um so you have your smart contract and you have you know the entries for the functions and also show the other functions you can draw lines that have different thicknesses or colors to show you you know actual visualizations of risk profiles um and then you know potentially we don't think this should be built out of the final version just on a hackathon but you can maybe multiply it out the scenarios so that you know you have a hundred different scenarios built out and the dap developer can identify the most secure one understand that this is you know extremely challenging thing we just want to give it you know that attempt to to begin the standardization process for it and then the idea would be you know that could be potentially a place where people could uh not people different um projects in the space could start doing having some more coordination and bringing their expertise and experience and case studies um from their projects in so that you know the community has like a more standard process to this um yeah that's that's what we have right now to present it it feels like the value prop is sort of like abstracting the complexity of making this decision um yeah so it's it's abstracting it so it's it's a bit easier on the eyes for the dab developer not like literally like that but why why not why not like it's not like risk profiles interface why not just abstract it to like one number because like if i look at a bunch of complex information i just like want the answer like like i how would i know how to like interpret one risk profile versus another like i might trust you as like the expert to just do it and give me the answer and then i just need to buy the number from you i don't need to buy the interface from you maybe but yeah the other thing oh sorry go ahead well i was just gonna say it's sort of a spectrum so we're looking to which is kind of what you're saying but like the spectrum of risk but but multi-dimensional so because it's gonna be trade-offs in the end you know so it's like well we know that you're actually trying to do this as well you kind of need this to build that to provide the results so this is the extra risk you're taking by doing that yeah how would a dab developer know how to weigh those risks better than you how would the dap developer know better than we do um yeah so it's yeah so it would be about delivering information to them that they don't have you know before they use the tool um and there's just more information that they have available so it's not i wouldn't necessarily but i'm totally open to this feedback i wouldn't necessarily imagine this being you know this is the answer to this it's more of consider these things yeah i i guess it might depend like who your target user is like if it's someone that like is running like a huge project they're probably going to have the bandwidth to like really dig in on these decisions if it's someone that's just starting out and like is trying to ship a quick mvp they might just want the answer i don't know the other thing i might consider is whether it's not like you're aggregating oracles from different frameworks um so you could sandbox using different oracle technology and it's it also seemed like your goal was to kind of like become the standard for this or yeah all right let's begin begin the process so that you know entities within the doubt space because i think you know especially the oracle companies would like to see success by not having crashes so somewhere to start coordination yeah i i i guess uh i think it might be hard to become a standard if you start off by aggregating everyone because probably no one individually wants to be aggregated into you um so it might be easier to try to become the standard of one oracle technology and sort of have like a more symbiotic relationship and then later if it does achieve scale um you know then start supporting multiples but it might be a hard thing to bootstrap kind of becoming like the default choice if you start off kind of putting people in a mode where they'd rather not be you know okay so if that makes sense yeah to to to figure out if i have the idea um so you're basically saying that like some of the oracle companies may not necessarily want to be contributing to like a general pool because there's other oracle companies technologies in there and it may give them an advantage yeah like they might they might view this as sort of like commoditizing them when they want to be the standard so if they're if you pick one oracle to sort of like to not commoditize they might make you the default answer for them does that make sense or do you have i guess i guess i don't know exactly i guess the different oracle technologies like you have different like like within chain link the individual nodes like have their own reputations kind of or maybe i i don't know if it works but sometimes standards are hard to bootstrap if the people you're creating the standard for are not like fully like are not aligned enough with you but okay i didn't consider that that's a really good point so um yeah that could be it where we can't really bring all them in because yeah the commoditization problem um so a question i guess would be do are there different uh oracle technologies that perhaps just serve totally different purposes and don't compete that could coordinate i don't know i don't know they all seem like they they they compete with each other but yeah i i'm not i'm not like don't make an expert at all on this i just yeah if if you're trying to aggregate everyone you better solve a really big problem or they aren't going to like it enough you know okay yeah okay which maybe maybe you are maybe yeah maybe you are too though you know well well um i guess the other approach potentially to consider would be maybe not necessarily getting the oracle technology companies or projects to coordinate but rather actually just staff companies that are just looking to build the space out generally so you know major projects want generally better oracle systems and security yeah yeah maybe i mean yeah it's definitely like if the pain point is big enough the people are like i need this information like and i'll pay you for it right then then like they're your customer right but if the if the pain point is on like the oracle provider side and they need someone to like create a reputation for them right then your customers like the oracle the the oracle provider maybe it's i'm like very far outside of things i know that much about but like definitely think about like who's who your costs who you're solving a problem for and then you have to make sure it works for them and kind of no one else matters really yeah so um i mean that was not like the whole question that we went through already but but we already kind of thought about that so it's not really focused on you know the large dapps that are out there running already it's more you know my sort of company that wants to build a real world use case um for you know electric microgrids and we don't want to build like large expertise domain experience in oracle security it'd be nice if there was just a dap or an app we could download and sort of make it catch up quickly yeah yeah yeah i think i mean it sounds interesting it is it is seems like it's kind of hard right now to like set up a new oracle for yourself you know yeah yeah we don't we don't know like what our boundaries are we don't know really what to look out for i mean we can read a little bit about it synthetics had a really you know clear case of this um where they got hacked and someone was messing with the price feeds um so that was like part of the inspiration i mean it's just a fear of you know we plug in smart meter data feeding into our smart contracts we believe that's going to be our weakest point at this point in the whole dap security system so to the extent that like we may have to put in different levers inside our smart contracts and our gap to maybe even stop it which takes away from the value of building on yeah i think there's a there's a website i put in the chat um called yeah oracle's club it's it's it was created by like an analyst from dragonfly named tom schmidt um and if you look past the unfortunate font choices um it's sort of sort of solving uh i've i've joked with him about this previously too so i don't feel bad um it's uh it's it's kind of doing a a type of this thing it's it's i think he just made it sort of like a nice info site like um in the weekend um but yeah they're just like definitely there might be a there might be something to solve with like the the purchasing process it's a great lead yeah this website is yeah i also know he probably wants to like chat about stuff like this generally so you're doing great i don't know anything about articles i'm just making it up as i go no i mean that website was yeah that's it like that's going to be really helpful for this he's got pros and cons here and who uses it this is this is nice yeah and he'll he probably he probably i don't know exactly but he probably want to just chat about different ideas for this um yeah i'd be happy to connect you if uh you think it'd be useful awesome thank you and also maybe maybe dm uh vance from framework i think he's generally interested in ideas from this but okay yeah this is awesome look at that we are wrapping up two minutes ahead of schedule does anybody have any last-minute comments or thoughts from a team that popped in their head after the team was finished scott brian anything nothing cool um it's been really cool to see this this hackathon especially we've had an interesting mix especially social tokens and personal tokens we're seeing a ton of projects that are attacking that and you've seen a couple of them present here so i'm really really curious to see how it will play out there's also some nft art stuff a lot of d5 obviously yeah it's a really wide range um whereas hack money was like all defy stuff basically so it'll be interesting to see where these projects take this stuff and you've got stuff uh like it's oracle project we just heard about so really wide range of topics that people are building um the other room i think they're still going so i can't close this out quite yet um but thank you brian and scott go ahead what's up um so ours is like an app it's not a dap it's not going to have stuff on the on a blockchain for this for this hackathon is that is that all right i mean is that like can people be building stuff like this without actually building something on the blockchain yeah yeah totally fine okay thank you cool um this like i said it's been great and we can probably just wrap up here if you're gonna drop and internet will hang out if you want to go and listen to the other room feel free to or i can put you in there myself anything that was unresolved for this jump into discord and tag me and i can try to connect you with whoever brought it up or get you a resource there cool lady friend thanks see you guys yeah mentions i will move you to the other room anybody else still here wanna chat or anything other people wanting to go to the other room okay [Music] all right yeah we'll just hang out here for a bit if anybody wants to ask a question or get my feedback on something just um like right hello what's up hey uh so i'll just pitch but so i'm coming from a game dev site and i don't have much experience with the on-chain development so maybe i was not sure if it's relevant enough but i'm trying to do a very decent game it's more like um users submit a submit a transaction and they get an ability from that transaction and then whoever wins that stage gets takes all the funds so currently how i'm managing it is um through just a normal wallet address and maybe there's a better way to make it more trustless restless using oracles and stuff so maybe just touch on an opinion on that so you mean that you yourself are managing some part of this and you'd like to swap in an oracle yes so i don't know how oracles and stuff work but currently like users send points to an address to a normal wallet address and then that wallet address it reads okay so this is this users and funds i'll enable the ability in my game engine for this this users and then uh whoever wins they just take the fonts at the end okay um what sort of information would you need in oracle to actually resolve so the logic is happening in the game engine the winner logic okay so that winner logic somehow gets to get thrown in a contract or if it's a contract is it okay so the game is happening off-chain yes game game logic is happening okay so it's a rpg it's it's more like a death match shooting in interesting um one thing you could look at to avoid all this is putting the entire game on chain i've seen some games like um it's called plasma dog which is just like a 2d side scroller and they put the entire game on a layer two and then they don't have to worry about an oracle because i don't think you'll find an oracle provider that will provide such niche data as this um they're they're more providing like really generic sets like price feeds or some really large events like sports or something so yeah i would actually he's our gaming man right here mr austin griffith austin do you have a minute or so what sure yeah um hey welcome back to room one hopefully went well we've got a hacker here asking about um oracle's reporting game logic and i suggested he could maybe just put the entire game uh on a layer two um and then because oracles really aren't going to provide such niche like reports reporting from a single game right yeah it's interesting if if it's like a subjective accomplishment right like if you try to do some kind of like pokemon go kind of thing maybe it's not using gps it's actually using an oracle system you may have to come up with just some clever logic of how to do that but yeah i think i'd have to get a little bit more information about the structure of the game before i could comment on like oracle mechanics be it more like a gta type game a big game very 3d very so most of the blockchain games have come across it's very 2d and simple they have simple logics and i don't know in sense of something like an open world a big open world like gta how it can survive on blockchain got it yeah that's a that's a very ambitious project there's there's a reason why blockchain games are simple like for the first year when i was when i first was getting into the space basically blockchain games were enter through the guest or enter through the gift shop where basically you would come in and buy things and they really there wasn't hardly a game mechanic to it so we're lucky to finally have games that are actually games but doing things like movement is really hard on chain if you imagine like is this person inside the house or outside the house you have to know a lot about their vectors in the math and you usually don't put that on chain you usually have something separate some kind of system that is maybe like your oracle whether or not but almost you to build a good blockchain game you want to think about kind of where where ethereum is very valuable and where it's not and i think storing someone's three-dimensional position within a game is probably not a good use of blockchain you you maybe are testing some new you know geo-location thing and that's like going to provide supply chain stuff down the road and you're playing around with it in a game maybe that's cool but putting the actual location of of a player within the game on chain doesn't make a ton of sense with with gallias a two-dimensional game i made i set it up so the ships have a speed and then you can you can basically make one transaction to put your sales up and then they start sailing and with each new block that's mined the ship moves and you can tell how far they are by just knowing how many blocks have been mined and how fast they move so you can do movement on chain everything even the clouds are on chain but probably not a good use of that like that's more of just like doing it because i can not because you necessarily want to do that so i think that like you you probably want to ask yourself like why blockchain and and come up with not a giant huge aspiring game that's gonna be like triple a quality come up with some little mechanic like the way bard you know fast forwards and rewinds and see if you can figure out how to put something like that into blockchain tokenize somehow or on a bonding curve something something that ethereum is specifically great at not trying to fit something great into ethereum yeah that makes sense well said austin yeah he's got the experience of building games before i'll i'll link you to what he had made previously oh yeah oh i linked somebody to doug oh the dog it's going it's coming back in a list man i'm gonna put it on a list somewhere to see if i can get people to signal toward it not really i i i'm putting it in my list the game is amazing people should be playing it again um so i'm wondering when we're getting weird we're going to see a resurrection the dog yeah pet 17 i want to be i want to be sensitive to everybody's times i know andrew has some stuff through and so does austin so we're going to rap here but huge thanks to austin for sticking around an extra 10 minutes and answering some questions and then also all the teams that you hit in the other room so this has been a really productive session a lot of great stuff coming out of it so we're going to wrap here um remember to double check your discord handle if you haven't um some people are having issues getting to the proper channel so make sure you have the right discord handle connected to your hacker dashboard and if you're around tomorrow during the afternoon eastern we're having the scalian infrastructure summit so it's gonna be a lot of full day of streams and chats and good stuff so stop by and say hi ander and trent and emily she's not here but thank you see you guys thank you see everybody