Creative Summit | The sound of on-chain music - Web3 and NFT music Metadata

[Applause] [Music] we are uh continuing we're moving on no no rest for the wicked as they say there should be a um somewhere a another slide but i do not know if you can see it who cares let's hand it over immediately so we teamed up for this talk with our dear friends from water and music so if you're interested anything in relation of the music industry either web 2 or web 3 water music is the key resource on the internet for that um and we wanted to look into something that also you know harm already uh mentioned the importance of metadata in particular because you might not consider metadata that important to your music exp listening experience but actually it is the decisive factor between who gets paid who gets attributed and who might you know be able to continue doing these beautiful things and the panel that we have is a panel of builders of engineers of lawyers and music industry professionals so without further ado i would like to hand it over to this beautiful group of people um and to brook in particular from water music who is going to be hosting that have fun friends all right thanks so much hello everyone and welcome to the next panel yeah this is great to be here and um i'm joined by a really really great group but i'm going to try not to talk too much but at least um i that was a nice intro but yes hi i'm brooke jackson i represent water and music which is a [Music] music and tech research newsletter and now dao um as of last year and um yeah we do research um on areas where music and tech meet um we attempt to analyze and connect the dots in areas and you know demystify some of these places um such as web 3. um so a lot of what i'm doing um as a researcher and um biz ops person at water music is looking at music nfts and we have a big database that you can find the paid members of our newsletter and dao can find at watermusic.com we have a database that tracks as best as possible which is part of what we're going to be talking about here um what's going on in music uh nfts i've been tracking these for about a year and a half um alongside our founder sherry hoo and a lot of collaborators as part of our dow and yeah have stumbled upon the problem of metadata in just trying to analyze what's going on so we look at primarily uh primary sales and do analysis of what is happening in the overarching trends of the market um and it's tough uh so i'm glad to be talking to people who are behind the scenes um much more you know tech technologically technologically capable capable than i am um that are actually putting this out there so i'm gonna hand it over let's just go around i'll just start with um i'll start to my right here so um you can tell us a little bit about one where what project you're involved with and um you know a little bit how what problem you're looking to solve in music with web3 so ahmed i see you first so why don't you start hey folks thank you brooke i appreciate the intro happy to be here my name is i am a data engineer by background but i'm a dj and producer as well um the project i'm involved in i'm part of a community called the underground violet rave so just a group of artists djs graphic artists all kinds of creatives who came together for music honestly and brought my technical background i was like hey you guys realize we could be doing a lot more stuff if we had metadata so i started digging into that did a zora hackathon project where i looked at the major publication platforms looked at their metadata standards and kind of did like a state of metadata and just started a conversation in our community and on the broader music nft community um because i believe that standard adoption is important for every single industry just go look at iso standards for example if you want a clear example um and i think that uh particularly with music nfts developing a standard and having wide adoption is mutually beneficial for everyone and it's inevitable because with the adoption of a standard comes the establishing of secondary micro services and money talks um so i'm excited to see where the space goes and i'm incredibly honored to just be a part of the conversation with so many bright individuals great thanks so much all right um kyle number one kyle dillon why don't you go ahead um with a part or picture sure thing thanks so much um i'm kyle i'm uh one of the co-founders and cto at arpeggio labs we started arpeggi back in october and we basically created the first fully on chain music creation platform similar to the last talk with harm actually but for music and early on we kind of started thinking about how do we uh how do we represent the contributors uh to a song uh on the blockchain and not just how do we you know replicate sort of the existing standards that we see with music um things that are stored in you know pro like that that pros handle and traditional publishing systems but how do we actually think about new ways to represent contributors to music and store that and build interesting systems on top of that um so things we're really interested in are we we basically developed a on-chain protocol for music creation um as well as a platform you can use called arpeggi studio so artists can make uh songs in the browser and all of the components of the song including the uh the samples that were used in that song um as well as any you know i say any stems that were remixed from another song all the components of that song are tracked and basically you could build really cool systems on top of this for distributing splits to all the contributors um you know artists of songs will be incentivized to allow others to remix their songs permissionlessly that's sort of the thesis one of the theses uh that we have at arpeggi so obviously this touches a lot about metadata and it's you know kind of it's a little bit different than i think the traditional way we think about metadata as just being like you know who made the song at what time instead of thinking about how do we literally change the way that we think about uh composition and collaboration essentially in sort of a day and age where remixing and reuse is so common and it is kind of the new paradigm for creating um yeah that's it amazing thank you kyle okay over to the other kyle at lex dao introduce yourself quick hi yeah i'm kyle i'm one of the core contributors of lifestyle and lifestyle is the international legal engineer guild so we're lawyers who code i'm not practicing and whatever i say is not legal advice uh so yeah anyway um what i'm doing is uh we've got this uh web3 music coalition and uh it's uh we offer grants to uh dao's uh what through dallas to go to traditional music events like music biz conference and we're also friends of music biz conference so opportunities to speak at music biz conference and then uh we're we only started in march but we'll um expand and offer more grants for more opportunities to bridge web 3 uh music with traditional music uh the main thing we're working on right now is uh or oh yeah web 3 uh i guess music collection it's technically a sub-dial of ethereum magicians so um we spent quite a bit time with uh them as well as the cat herders so uh very much in vip and at the moment we're uh building up a uh group of members for ddex and then ddex is going to have where they already have a working group of traditional music industry and uh and so then we'll have some web3 and hopefully well i don't know what standards i've come up with i'm just kind of a liaison but i assume the standards will bridge between ddexes kind of one-to-one private database system uh into ethereum so an oracle type of thing i saw what uh jack did with web five that was kind of cool i don't know how related it will be to that but uh that's pretty much what i'm up to and oh yeah my background way when was in enterprise music publishing with what's now anthem entertainment and so i'm personally really interested in the new royalties that are happening in this space uh resale is very exciting and uh from my previous uh experience we we kind of uh expanded neighboring rights and that's now quite lucrative and everyone kind of knows about that these days and so a resale's like that but then who knows what other rights um these these new markets will produce that will add more um diversification of revenue for lardis and i am also very interested in um making sure creators get credits and that's a harder problem that's edge computing and all that but i've got uh robotics uh pet projects that's ultimately gonna come back around for that but uh yeah that's me thanks amazing thanks kyle and last but not least aj hey guys uh thanks for having us uh so aj washington here i'm the founder of float dao float is a music curation protocol with the dao built on top of it uh our mission is to bring the best music on the internet to web3 and introduce weather technology and nfts to artists as a way for them to you know make sustainable make sustainable living and uh you know earn a living wage for from and from their work um you know our our primary goal is to help artists maximize the the the value uh of their work and their reach um and i think you know when we think about metadata metadata not only like you know mchale suggests that at the top you know helps uh in attribution and and payment but also in discovery um and you know discovery is a very big part of our mission helping you know talented artists be seen be heard and uh this discussion is is core to you know that being you know uh that being available to to artists and so um yeah we're very interested invested in uh helping establish a metadata standard helping push that helping alleviate any challenges and roadblocks that you know may uh be in the way of of that you know being uh you know being a realization amazing all right let's dig into it so i said to you guys before we started i would love to see by the end of this thing which haha if we could come to a consensus on one what the problems are with metadata as they stand today um what your thoughts are on how we can actually start to solve these problems and you know that could be a big ideal kind of thing or just literally like how do we connect stakeholders in this place to you or two leaders that are actually starting to um uh take action on this so to start with that let's just hear where do you guys think um the biggest problem is right now as it stands today to getting um good solid metadata standards um for nfts and in the music space and i'll just open it up you guys can i won't start if that's okay get us going here um you know i wrote a couple things down uh but i think to keep it relevant i think the most important thing is education especially when we when we start engaging artists and talking them about like metadata like you know hey what's metadata used for usually it involves artificial intelligence or something like that it's like no man do you like spotify and apple music do you like seeing recommended songs are you a dj who dicks for music on bandcamp or soundcloud you know on bandcamp you can go and hey show me hip-hop from tokyo japan you know and it'll give you songs that are hip-hop in tokyo japan and imagine if we had metadata for all that music the the depth of research we could do on sound selection um that's what was missing for me that's why i decided to do a project um but what's what's important about the education piece is you know when we look at the major publication platforms who are the faucets into this ecosystem they're not adopting uh they have the the metadata standards but on the user interface side they're choosing not to allow people to populate that metadata standard very valid reason when you go ask them it's because it's a barrier of entry for artists they see that huge metadata standard and they're like whoa i don't have like three quarters of this i'm not going to upload music fair enough what i'm saying is if you're an artist and i'm telling you that people are trying to build secondary services to get you paid based off of data that is published you should start asking those publication platforms why you can't populate that data and you should be asking for the option to populate that data yourself and it's going to be an iterative process and building so let's build yeah and i agree i think i think really the you know i think education is is is is is uh is a barrier but also you know like uh muda suggested it's also how how do we uh allow this to be an easy process for artists or maybe alleviate the pressure on artists themselves to uh populate this information uh and and can we do it in a more decentralized way right and that's something that i think is in line with the ethos of web3 um i think there are incentive mechanisms that you know we could think about that would allow a broader population of folks who support artists love music you know understand the importance of this information being submitted to to participate and i think that's you know really the the the area focus that we're really interested in uh exploring is how can we make this more communal process and you know create some sort of incentive that allows more people to get involved i kind of uh be i was a part of this uh i'm still a part of this telegram chat called nft metadata standards and it's been really interesting to see the conversation in that channel evolve over the past few months um my understanding based on following that that channel which has a lot of really engaged and interested folks who want to solve this problem is that there's sort of two questions right now there's actually two different conversations happening in parallel one is sort of the traditional metadata conversation which is really important and it's kind of what ahmed and aj are talking about how do we get really accurate uh information about the song or song specifically um and put that in a way that it can be shared across a bunch of different platforms and you know aggregators can display songs using that information um i feel like that is a problem that a lot of people are working on interesting solutions for catalog and min songs i think in partnership with water and music you guys just put out a standard that looks kind of similar to like an isrc which is sort of the traditional music industry standard that's really exciting there's a project called new which is i believe an open source aggregator that's taking music from sound.xyz catalog and basically massaging the data using its own uh pipeline and then publishing that to a open source database as well so that has its own sort of metadata standard there and all this stuff is really important um however i think like perhaps a more you know i kind of think that eventually though this question of like how do we basically take the same standards that exist in web 2 and apply them in web three will get resolved somehow like one either one metadata center will dominate or one aggregator will dominate most likely um but i think the thing that's really most up up in the air and up for debate is the rights side it's like the legal side of nft music i think that's the area that doesn't have an answer right now and i think it's probably the biggest challenge the biggest obstacle for traditional artists especially ones who are assigned to record labels for putting their music on chain basically like what does it mean if i create an nft for my song what are the legal rights associated with that and how do you codify those rights into that metadata of that nft like can i make an nf a music nft that actually has these rights associated with it for example fractionalization of royalties um what if i don't want to do that what if i just want to make a pure collectible is there like a standardized way that we can represent that information on chain and i think that's the area where we can really change music permanently as opposed to just like you know getting the same kind of data that we already have for web 2 music for web 3. now let's act you know i'm curious actually to hear about what what kyle since you're a lawyer but i know it's not legal advice curious what you think about the the right side of this equation yeah yeah your assessment is great uh the one thing i would add to that kind of the first uh track is tags are really useful so um there's uh yeah we've kind of had discussions about what's the core metadata the absolute required metadata so as aj said right some people will just kind of not do it there's too much so what's absolutely minimum like who are the creators on it and that one's really tough too uh especially because um say some craters left off left out or um they're inputted incorrectly so then how is that updated especially in an immutable chain um yeah so that that the immutability issue in that first track as well as uh stuff that is uh metadata that's yet to be developed because one of the cool things about nft space is there's so much creativity happening that uh just kind of categorizing that sort of secondary metadata as tags can be helpful so bpm i know it's kind of sometimes given its own but perhaps it should be just more out of that tag thing but any case yeah so but on on the legal side yeah that's just a really hard problem and so i one of the uh one of what we're discussing right now which i think will be helpful for nfts generally is having a legal document standard um just period so in lifestyle we're dealing with real property not just copyright lots of different types of associations but yeah i guess the legal community really is is kind of figuring out i i personally have a uh a um a position where the nft is a super generous type of property and it kind of should be kept separate from the other property and i i feel when that happens the analysis is a little bit easier to understand um and sort of bundle of properties that were some other people they'd rather not create a suit generous and so see if our existing structures uh work and so don't have to um have a whole almost new area of property law develop uh so even at that at that really low level um those legal questions are yet to be answered um but yeah one of the things that will be a catalog is an example of uh someone that's just kind of doing it on the ground with with their splits and and having that built in so splits is a little bit easier than the other ones because um same as as resale it's part of the uh um what's compiled in the evm so it's kind of more practical than uh kind of where copyright often is statutory so people have to understand the statute to apply it and so that's another one of the reasons why i think nfts should be a little bit separate because entities are almost like um uh returning to natural law where it's possession is nine tenths of the law that that kind of thing that doesn't really operate and incorporate because it's statutory but um in in physical it really does matter uh if i have my laptop physically here that's you know then i'm possessing it or whatever um and so yeah so with the public private uh key situation that people having control because they have that that secret um which is kind of like a trade secret then it does allow this interesting i would almost say tort like nature uh for for nfts but yeah so anyway but with getting back to metadata um more directly uh i i hopefully will have a metadata standard for lego documentation and then something that should also uh be part of that is a ux where signatures are fairly um uh people understand that they're um that they're agreeing to something that it actually feels like a signature like in a traditional contract and for copyright that's really important if the uh asset is transferred it uh has to be in writing in quite a few territories and so uh colonel communities are working on signature economy stuff um so that that's one place that tech could uh happen i i yeah i feel like we're all kind of aware of what needs to be done just have that patience of building it out but um it does seem like the overall narratives are are going in the right direction so i'm optimistic are there any standards the kyle since you're it sounds like you're pretty optimistic about this as you said um are there any places that you feel like are doing it really well right now that maybe we can get behind um i know it's been mentioned that open seas standard is sort of the standard that um everyone's using because they're the biggest they were kind of first and um maybe that's not perfect for what we're doing with um music specific um nfts but yet we're trying to kind of cram in you know a little proverbial square peg round hole kind of thing is that the right direction or is there someone else who's doing it that um that you know you're you're looking to that's like yeah you've got the legal stuff doing really well i mean you mentioned catalog is doing it from the ground up but is there any place where or maybe addressing the education aspect and getting the the right data and to begin with and then i'll have a follow-up question but if i wanted to make sure we noted that if there's someone doing it really well and maybe it's luxedout oh yeah i mean likestyle started the process for more general legal solution but there is a distinction between the legal that is because it's uh part of a contract in the evm and then legal that is more um well there's that laws code thing right and so lost code when when legal can um it has it's that kind of legal then there are already solutions there but for instance lexo has a thing called kelly down it's a legal rapper so it's an llc on top of that and that is uh what is this i think it's called wet code or something like that uh there's dry cold and white colors like those you know human brains uh and so and so that that still needs to be built out quite a bit and and yeah alexa was working on it a few other areas or a few other um i guess the legal engineers are also working on that but that one's still farther out so the law that is getting built out uh that's already built out to some extent already is is that law that can be encoded and and has been encoded uh and but that's limited it does also though again open a whole new space a lot like resale so the first sale doctrine doesn't really matter so much because there's resale that's actually in the evm so um it's there so again possession is kind of it exists so what are you gonna do um uh yeah uh zora i believe is uh um it seems like uh music nfts zora is has the potential to be where these api standards uh for um yeah i would call them api standards that's one of the reasons openc uh is is a leader is it's not just uh it's it's that people can can can secondary so something like uh spin app they can call in to open c and and um grab the data and so zora has the potential to for music it seems to be um the leader for for those uh i personally i don't want to reinvent the wheel so as much as we can bring in ddex standards since that's already accepted um do so and if uh apple is indeed x uh universal sony all that so if they um there's a possibility they they work with zora and uh open c and all that to kind of uh set a um platform standard and that just happens and that's especially important for things like resale because uh these are opt-in and i really like that um eip the ethereum standards choose generally for opt-in and ddex also is deciding to join in on that and opt-in uh that means though that um uh what might happen practically is that sort of the big names that are all well established will kind of create enough critical mass that everyone does decide to opt in uh and i'm really motivated to make sure that opt-in is as um beneficial for artists as possible and seeing how performing rights organizations distribute royalties uh um there's a good chance that we actually will um keep artists at the center of attention and realize that they're the ones that make this stuff and why we're here in the first place and yeah that's great thank you thank you so much for that and i i think there's that there's the tech side of things and then there's i want to get back to also the education side of things because i think a few of you have talked a little bit about that and i think probably the idea of metadata or seeing a big standard is probably um yeah barrier to entry a little intimidating um what what are you doing in each of your projects or what have you liked doing i mean ahmed you you said that you dug into a project because you were trying to learn um aj i know we talked yesterday about the fact that probably a lot of the problems with metadata are not necessarily like because of blockchain it's because of human error right so um there's some education um behind that so how are you approaching with your projects education whether that be onboarding or artists that you're working with um and i suppose kyle you know just understanding like what it means to break up a stem um and how that affects future um future compositions um you can talk a little bit about what education is doing yeah go ahead hey uh i just figured out you could raise your hand i had to try it out um i think leading through example you know we have aggregators aggregators are a standard thing at this point you know collecting whatever metadata contract address if there's any pro metadata in there which um i think the catalog metadata standard has is rc just none of it's populated so you know the aggregator piece isn't a problem i think the most important thing we can do now is lead by example and show people what we can do with aggregation um because we can talk all day about you know the future microservice ecosystem or whatever but if there's no data to actually build these products that we're talking about um then it's kind of useless to talk about something that doesn't exist so you know with this small data set that we've been able to get and you know folks like water and music has like you guys have been able to aggregate over time um i challenge all of our perception about the future of of the music ecosystem and how it works we're moving towards a services oriented future and if a platform makes a service that is able to power a powerful secondary music streaming service or music discovery service or music curating service and people can get can get paid passively we don't have to do any convincing there's not it's uh it's do you want to get paid money then adopt a standard because there's microservices built on this the same way that sora operates right with the api the apis were saying we're going to make the data available to you go build stuff with it because it's built on zora that's good for zora that's good for you and so that's the future we're moving towards so um maybe a little bit of a radical opinion but i think that with the right players involved if we keep good hearts and we keep each other honest and keep doing this in a community oriented way um all the pieces will fall into place because money talks at the end of the day yeah aj you're doing a lot your whole pitch is about bringing music into web3 how so that's clearly educating artists on that how are you talking about that um especially in terms of this more technical side of things yeah i mean this is this is you know metadata is a boring of a but important topic right and it's nothing you know we don't we don't say metadata ever to artists i think like you know like i met saying you know we talk in terms of dollars right you know artists come to us because they want you know they want capital and they want distribution right and i think it's you know both those things are solved uh by metadata as an underpinning to making the music more valuable one right because it's more usable as ahmed was saying you know if you have uh robust metadata you know on a song there's two songs one has robust metadata set the other one doesn't one is discoverable one's available for you some microservices ones you know one can be monetized in a much uh you know greater way more efficient way than the other right and so when we talk to artists you know typically we're you know talking to them about how to maximize the value of their music uh and i think this is just a part of the conversation we need this information so that we can make your music available to all these you know different places and these different services so that it can be distributed more broadly you can get more exposure you know that's sort of the language that we use to speak to artists with and i think ultimately what incensed them to you know think a little bit more clearly and closely about um what information they're submitting to you know to us as they're you know submitting music and uh and how we can help them right and so i think this is you know an important part of the conversation we have but it's you know nuanced in how we have it um you know we you know typically uh would start to see eyes glows over even if we talk nfts and technology too much to artists and so you know we typically try to abstract that away and talk in terms of you know they want to hear and understand and and typically like i said it's you know it comes down to capital and it comes down to reach and value of the work and um and you know we use that as the the leading sort of uh you know trojan horse to have this deeper conversation about okay here's how we do those things is you know these ways that's great and kyle i don't want to skip you if you have any i know i mentioned just the the fact that you're breaking up the actual compositions a little bit which i'm sure is a totally different conversation about yeah i'm happy to talk about that a little bit too i think it's it is a little bit different i think than like i said than the kind of traditional metadata systems uh that we're used to but it's something that we think is a potential unlock from web3 it's kind of built around the ideas about around composability and the power of composability a good example of that is open source software and the open source software movement so like the the analog is that in the software world people started to publish their code openly and allow other people to use it and build things on top of it and people did so and they would build things that were more powerful they would build libraries you know operating systems browsers and make that code available for reuse and eventually nowadays developers have access to like this unbelievably powerful uh ecosystem that's just like of infinite code essentially that you can do almost anything you can imagine you can search for it online and find an open source library that does it and we kind of think about this and say can we apply this to music for music creators can can we have a world where you listen to any song on spotify any song on audios any song on youtube and you can just click a button that lets you remix that song and you have the legal rights taken care of you know payments royalties splits whatever taken care of handled by uh smart contracts or you know some other system um and yeah it sounds like it sounds like a dream a faraway dream but like we've kind of built a we built a mini version of this ecosystem that's on chain and uses uh uses smart contracts to handle this um attribution and like kind of this permissionless remixing is what we call it um and so that's kind of like the prototype that's what we've built at arpeggia and kind of what we're working on expanding and fleshing out and our thesis is that in the same way that uh open source software you know started off as kind of a radical idea that goes against everything you know that capitalism tells you about selling and owning your your content we think that hopefully we can prove that there's actually a model where sharing and collaborating openly with other artists and kind of letting your music free in a sense will actually be beneficial for the artist it'll make them more more well-known and they can profit from their you know they can earn an income and earn a living through like all kinds of new models that exist whether selling nfts live performances whatever it might be while still letting people remix and reuse their stuff so that's what we built at arpeggi.

io um yeah i mean again it's not exactly related to metadata but it is kind of interesting new approach um to collaboration and songwriting yeah and i think that goes over to what um was saying it's that you're showing by example you're showing what you can do with with this right now and why it matters and then people are getting paid clearly too that's very important it's great for everyone um question for for colleges on sure source music is you know as as uh you know producer or artist submits um track samples to arpeggi is there is there just the terms of use that says you know this music is is freely available to remix or is is that you know how how is that um sort of initiated i guess like a better term yeah you're right it's it's a terms of use and there's a license agreement essentially that people release their music under right now it's it's simply cc0 which is the most you know the most open and free licensing uh terms that you can have yeah um in software that's the equivalent of like the mit license essentially which is basically saying you can use my code for whatever you want got you and that's what we're doing right now but ideally this model can evolve and and we can start to answer some of the trickier questions and supports more complex uh right systems where people you know are expected to profit from any time their music is used or you have to re-register your songs back in to the system or we could use cc by which is saying that you have to provide attribution um you don't necessarily have to pay me when you use my stuff but you at least have to give me attribution um so yeah there's some options there yeah no we're thinking a lot about open source music as well and you know what uh when an ecosystem could look like where you know any song that is heard could be not only a remix but you know there could be ugc added to it you know as a way to uh you know really showcase the cultural value of the song or music right so think about you know a song that gets you know uploaded to spotify and then remixed on soundcloud and then there's a reaction video on youtube there's comments you know on all these all these uh contributions but they're all separate you know what if they all you know resided in the same place right and you really get to measure the cultural impact of an inspiration that's provided by you know any piece of music i think it's something that you know artists would love to see and if you have to sort of own an nft to you know be a part of discussion by contributing in this way through not only remixing the song but if you want to create fan art you know that's inspired by it or uh or you know create a visualizer you know uh that's that's uh you know that that reacts to the music um that could be an interesting way to again attribute value back to the artist you have to own an nft the nft is linked to you know it's all linked together in this content web and um and i think yeah i mean a cco standard would be would be a really interesting way to accomplish that so yeah i i may be following up with you after this yeah please do yeah float was one of the early supporters of our pages so shout out aj and float i'd i'd like to say real quick um i've worked with creative commons a bit and i've tried to get them involved with nfd as well and so ddex has been on board but creative commons so far um they're i guess a bit on the sidelines but hopefully they will have a working group uh we had a working group with ai so i don't think there's any reason why we can't have a working group with uh nfts and i see some issues like song and uh bayman he's he's said he doesn't really like cc0 um because his identity is really involved in the music so if someone synchronizes it to say like a political campaign ad or something like that then it's tacitly saying that he agrees with with that campaign so for things like edm stems if it's like a um a drum line that people can't really recognize immediately that drum or something like that then it makes a little bit more sense to do straight up cc0 but hopefully yeah cc will start to get more involved with the nft community and kind of have more options so that uh something like arpeggio can have it so that sync license has to be something that is negotiated but everywhere else like as long as it's on chain and using on-chain system then uh it is cc0 and it's really great for memes uh disaster girl she didn't make any money off of that i mean uh but because it's all public but then with that nft that said this is the original then suddenly she had a private version of it and so uh there's this really great uh paradigm that we can pursue that is uh taking the best of what copyright provides but not uh overly emphasizing the monopoly and kind of abusing monopoly like copyright has done in the past so yeah hopefully we can build that with creative commons uh i'll keep working on that this is how we reach the utopia that is promised by web3 right [Laughter] just a few back-end things to do so i'm getting ping that we're getting close um to the end here so i don't i don't want to leave without having whomever's watching this not be able to follow up on um what you guys are saying i know we've already got maybe a a little follow-up between kyle and aj um this is obviously going to be an ongoing problem that we're having to solve um can you each let us know where people who are watching could connect with you or what you're doing especially as it relates to the future of metadata standards um yeah and i'll just let you go around yeah sure i'll go first so um yeah people can follow us on twitter at team float p h t-e-a-m-p-h o t e um they can also check out the site float.xyz p h l o t e x y z um and yeah share music with us you know earn tokens and be a part of the ecosystem i would love to hear what you're listening to awesome thank you you guys can follow me on twitter i'd love to you know help with any projects make any data sets available help you reimplement code or anything like that you can follow me on twitter m-u-t-a-h-a-d-i-r and yeah just be happy to collaborate with anything part of a citizen developer group and so advocacy for um coding skills you know general web3 knowledge and web 2 tech knowledge as well i'd be happy to help personally so yeah feel free to reach out you will get a response from me amazing thank you kyle arpeggi is uh our twitter handle a-r-p-e-g-g-i and you can also find me at ksd underscore eth on twitter that'd probably be the best way to find me our website's arpeggi.io and you can find our discord information there if you'd like to join our discord we'd love to hear from you guys team thank you kyle uh uh yeah so myself i'm best ape on twitter so b-e-s-t-a-p-e and then the web through music coalition is web3 coalition on twitter and lex dao is lex underscored val and dms are open for all three thanks kyle and i suppose i should mention one more time i'm with water and music and again we're doing a lot of research collaborative research as the dow on web3 areas when it comes to music that can be found at waterandmusic.com some of that is free content some of that is paid membership content but um and you can also follow me at brooke brooke jackson at twitter j-a-x-o-n so um thank you guys so much really appreciated the conversation and i'm sure we'll keep it going offline see you