ETHOnline 💡 Idea Validation - Room 2

um and we're trying to you know allow people to earn money wisely and so what we're trying to go after is the crypto curious crypto nervous people that are really uncomfortable with digital assets the majority of people right that are still digitally native but just don't understand the space at all and you know we always hear i know this is a weird audience because we're in a hackathon for ease but most people just think there's no risk and it's too difficult and that's a scam and that's what our project is we're trying to address that market and convert people that are nervous into believers so how we're doing that is through financial advice for the new age so most traditional financial advisors care about stocks and bonds and cash um but our application really brings together stable coins and volatile coins um and we build a we're a robo advisor for allocating across all of those asset classes so bringing main coins and stable points into investors portfolios so how we're going to do that is by taking people we have a suggested allocation that we give to an investor we have advisors on the other side that will invest that money for them into their own vehicles that they want so there's a stable coin pool and a waldo coin pool for each individual advisor um and the investor can select which advisor they want to go with um and yeah so there's a lot of nuances behind the scenes but the idea is we're making it really easy for people to get into d5 is it this is like the advisor is doing the work for the investor so that's what we're trying to accomplish did that come through yeah so um uh one question was like what are you which parts are you hoping to build are you building is this going to be like a smart contract that's going to be allocating these investments and then interface and everything or is it just some parts or others or kind of what's the what's the plan yeah okay i'm sorry it's not the end of the present sorry no no no it was i think that's a good question though but like yeah there's a lot going on behind the scenes um we are investing uh the investors money into um a contract so so there's uh you know some token economics behind the scenes we're taking investors money the advisor is has the ability to invest on behalf of that uh investor and then token comes back to them so there's a lot going on behind the scenes but really we want the platform to start from the investor and go all the way through um which is a an ambitious project for this hack but we're gonna see how far we can get it's so so one one innovation in the space in the last year has been because gas is so expensive when you're managing someone's money or you're managing assets if you can do it first of all permissionlessly which we can talk about here but also uh if you can do it gas efficiently so one one thing that they've been able to do is sort of set up these strategies and implement these strategies on behalf of a whole bunch of people at once and i think that's probably something that you'll want to kind of look into these these systems are very very complicated and you really roll up a lot of transactions to get into place to make these work but uh i would say that this is almost more of a marketing project than it is an engineering project if if you wanted it to be an engineering project there's some key things here like you're custodian because like you don't want to be custodial right you want to be non-custodial you don't want to be in control of other people's money that's kind of what you're doing here so maybe if you could do it in a contract where it's a little bit more trustless where you're assigning some kind of strategy and not like just for one person but for a lot of people if you could figure out a way to kind of group those together in a trustless way where you can kind of manage someone's money without actually being custodial i think that's pretty key but you know there's some some subtleties there too yeah it definitely reminded me of like a like professional like more comp complex more powerful version of like you know these like wiring vaults where you know with yeah with urine vaults there they try to like they try not to do anything too crazy it's like oh you like deposit like a stable coin it's gonna like farm and like buy more stable coins or something but but this is going to be kind of the same same similar style system but um doing more like active investment which seems really cool uh one just like little feature i thought of it might be cool is um because you're going to have these advisors that are going to be changing the strategies um and again this might add like a bit of complexity so like no worth but like if it um if there was like a time block kind of thing so like basically the the advisors are like hey like we want to switch strategies and the the owner the people who own the money like could have like you know two days to like opt out like rage quit be like oh like you know you said you want to like put all your money into uh you know like yams or some something worse you know something something that they don't like it's like i don't i don't know if i want to do that so that was just a random idea but yeah it seems really cool it seems like a very like uh kind of like professional idea so i like awesome sweet great good thing yeah um sorry i i i do need to cut you off just in the interest of time um but if you're still on all a bit later and we've gone through all the projects we can always touch back with some of the projects that went first and um david is in the discord so if there's any like and austin so if there's any um specific questions you can also tag them in the channels um cool next up we have project carl dear with drew patel are you on the call with us yep great cool um okay so the first i'm gonna lay out like status quo and like why we're trying to actually solve a problem so right now in d5 if you want to ensure you're like deposits you really only have one option it's nexus mutual if you look in the next mutual like on the surface it sounds great but if you start looking into it and you took like if you want to attend the first class of an econ class in college you'd realize that the incentives never align and that when the big hacking event happens the thing's going to blow up because um the people that are in writing underwriting the insurance the lp pool providers they are the ones who get to decide if a claim gets paid or not right so you have misaligned interest they want the lp pool providers want to maximize the amount of insurance they sell and minimize number of claims they pay out and then a purchaser wants to pay as little as they want for as little as they can for insurance and have a guarantee that the claim be paid and so this has led next mutual to only um accept three out of 26 claim requests on their network um so what we're trying to do is create a completely trustless insurance protocol so no chain link none of that the contract itself will decide if a underlying contract is insuring is hacked and you can do it pretty easily by just having the user hand over the claim token to you uh to the contract and the contract then trying to withdraw the underlying asset from like wiring so a user could deposit um could get some uh wire and claim token come to our platform and insure it and get a erc20 that represents insurance and then if a hack occurs they transfer their um underlying token they transfer the claim token and their insurance token we burn the insurance token and then we try to claim the claim token if it doesn't work that would pay out the insurance um so completely trustless insurance and there's a few ways we can implement it like we can either have them pay up front for insurance for x amount of time or we can do like a like an etf like vanguard dtfs we stick a management fee um on the yields they earn and then on the other side we have lp pool providers who are like betting against contract getting hacked um and they have exposure to a ton of contracts so if they have one dollar and we can say hey here 10 contracts um here are 10 smart device platforms uh that your one dollar can insure against so we're saying that if one of these explodes um we can insure against that and you have exposure to 10 because else why wouldn't the insurance provider or the person underwriting the insurance just put their money in the d5 pool um so that's how we make it worth for the lp fighters yeah that's the protocol yeah i think this is a space that needs a lot of exploring right now and it makes a lot of sense to be talking about how to build smart contracts to protect smart contracts like it's an obvious place where we should be playing around for sure i i don't know a ton to be honest about it like my understanding is you can buy like you can go on open and you can buy like an option on some token going below something and if that token ever goes below something you can take the below token and your option and put both of those in and get back some money at some below token rate that's like there we go that's my understanding of it but but in terms of in terms of like uh knowing whether or not the smart contract got hacked and how since the the contract uh itself is deterministic and you could just basically go check it you you're pretty limited to what you can do with that and an oracle system does kind of open that up a lot but again more complexity means means a lot more troubles i i would say my my overall feedback is this is great and it's a great place to be uh attacking and learning more and and building around my own personal knowledge is i don't know enough about like the high level economics to be able to like weigh in on whether or not it's going to work or not but i think uh i i'm two thumbs up in terms of this is something that uh should be built on ethereum yeah to kind of add on that um i mean it sounds great i have a little bit of like just skepticism about like is it possible you know because these hacks are typically so complicated it can be difficult for a smart contractor to determine whether another smart contract has been hacked and and like what a hack looks like is it the ability to you know sometimes it's the ability to withdraw a token but sometimes it might just be like a the fact that like a token might just lose value or something um so i guess what i would just suggest or if you i don't know if this isn't necessary for the hackathon but like if you were trying to like sell this to me i would say uh just go through the list of like hacks that have happened and there's plenty to work from and just like kind of if you could say like hey like all the major hacks that have happened like we could have fixed it like with this then that'd be sold um that's a great idea like look how this look how this would have been triggered on chain like here's the dow hack here's it getting drained and if they would have if they would have bought options on this here they would have been able to swap them or something like that that's a great idea like using historical hacks they're so complicated like whether or not something gets hacked is such a like subjective thing right like even even flash loans when they first came out like all of us were just like wow that's a neat trick like i don't know i don't know if it's good or bad but it is really cool and so like we don't you can't even imagine what sort of things can happen i don't know it's it's tricky but uh two thumbs up on the direction this is this is definitely a place where we should be innovating perfect thanks guys thanks so much drew um moving on to the next project distributed town with alex are y'all on the call hey guys yes amy here um so you have some connectivity problems so i will switch on my camera but i promise it will be more entertaining next time so anyway uh good evening to everyone um i'm the leader of distributed town and in general we're trying let's say on a high level to build um a network dowse that lets people organize in self-sovereign communities and is based on a mutual credit system or counting so uh instead of using let's say the dow concept for speculative purposes or something like that basically every person will select a set of skills at the registration when they want to join a new community and instead of having let's say validation pool for confirming this the skills whether this person is a skill or not is a subtractive model so for example you can choose your experience in one specific skills say gardening between one and ten if you declare you have ten then before you are able to use the credit that you are assigned by default you need to validate the skill by taking a gig in the community and of course if i sign you a gardening gig and you burn down all my plants then probably are not you know a very skillful gardener so your your rate will go below and the amount of credits the ito's credits that you have will dynamically go below the um the main let's say goal that we have for this act is to well first of all let's say have a proof of concept with a few communities and also to start building let's say the foundation for a skill wallet so that basically to be a universal login that you can use for a mobility purposes moving from a community to the other um following this let's say multi-lateral barter kind of approach and um instead of having let's say universal login based on identities sensitive data and blah blah so we forget about passports resumes and this kind of things but you login basically to validate your skills so based on the contribution that you give to the community and then later on to the network uh you will be able to use your credit wherever in the world without you know having any bureaucratic uh limitation so that at that level is this um uh and by the way we use um since you know we live in a kind of a hybrid world where of course a multilateral barter or you know any kind of mutual credit would take a lot of time to be sustainable we use also um defy protocols for letting the community members like the members of one specific community to pull in and create their own saving pools let's say with their own independent fault strategy in a way that they can find let's say the possibility to sustain internal projects within the same community without uh waiting for governmental grants and this kind of stuff so to keep it safe hybrid between taking the best between one word and the other and um we don't leverage on the mutual credits that we have in the platform because in order to receive your uh shares let's say your sure profit um you need to to have the ito mutual credits and uh the more you have so the more you contribute to the community the more you are going to earn so this is the very level version and if you have any question or feedback that would be great this is yeah this is a really another really cool place within ethereum like another kind of uh branch of ethereum that's a cool place to explore right now kind of um uh coordination games and coordinating around going back to i think moloch was mentioned earlier but uh trying to find coordination platforms that can work and experimenting with coordination platforms is is exciting there's a ton going on here though i would say that like everything that you've laid out take that vision and apply it to what's currently created and what you're going to find and a lot of people find this when they try to build something complex on aetherium is there's there's holes there's there's blind spots there's missing things where the tooling isn't there or there's not something there take that grand vision and apply it and find spots that are just totally not there like you'll find like you said we need a wallet to be able to move stuff around i know some guys on this call that can give you a good forkable wallet but the things like that where you'll find holes in the current setup in the current infrastructure and the current tooling uh find some small piece of this that might be like very high leverage for the future builders that are building this but also maybe maybe it's the the the guild as a whole like you you have this kind of coordination set up where you have skills and gigs whether there's a virtual you have a credit system this is a perfect setup for a smart contract it's just very there's a lot going on there and a lot a lot of moving parts and you kind of threw in d5 there at the end i i would say just like either either find a simplified version of this for for like a hackathon kind of build or or find something within here that's missing in terms of infrastructure and tooling in the space and try to fill that gap first but maybe the whole thing just works and it is a good application of ethereum i'd like to hear what what david thinks of this too yes kind of going down the same direction what i was hoping is like it sounds like a very cool and it sounds like you've like given a lot of thought to how the system is going to work um what i would love to like hear or like see when when it comes to presenting is like one specific uh like use case this addresses because like what you've described sounds like it could like yeah cover a lot of different use cases um but i think it'd be maybe easier to build and also easier to present if you're like uh you know here is the the problem that we can solve um and like you know here's a way like you mentioned like gardening when you were going through it and i get that helped i kind of like it made sense but i was like also like uh maybe something that's more like crypto native might be easier to to like mentally kind of like fit in with with other projects in the space so if it's like oh it's like you know managing money or or like a game or something like that something that like we're already really used to in crypto uh that might be kind of cool but i'm building something similar to this with developers and tasks just trying to figure out how to coordinate around a couple different projects getting tasks done at the same time so very similar something where gigs would be more virtual maybe it's like a bounty system on something something where someone can check in complete a gig and get paid in some kind of social credit all virtually kind of world is flat style yeah thank you guys it's a very good advice and also i mean it makes sense because one of the main inspirations was the cps so collaborative problem solving and the main idea basically is that you have the possibility you were mentioning alexa i'm really sorry but i'm gonna just have to cut you off um because just in the interest of time i'd like to give all the projects an opportunity to pitch the idea but if you stay on the call and there's time at the end we can revisit this conversation with the um sure i'm sure i will i will just reply later to david about the use case and you guys can go on for now thank you thank you very much bye-bye and thank you austin bye-bye cool next up um nifty crates with abhishek hey everyone can you guys hear me great uh hey so nifty creates is basically a new type of erc721 token which can itself compose other erc 721 tokens within it um and and the idea for this is sort of uh the problem i sort of identified is a lot of people have you know a lot of common nfts that that are that get generated from all sorts of games and breeding algorithms and they get very few that are quite rare and valuable and you know you want to liquidate let's say a set of nfts for as much eath as possible and you know loot box mechanics are very popular in games and and so what i wanted to do was sort of boil that down to the purest purest idea of a loot box and create one on ethereum using smart contracts so it's it the first most obvious use case is geared towards nft whales who have a lot of tokens and that want to turn their nfts into a profitable loot box others can use um and the way it would work is you would buy a crate and then you would put some nfts in it um and then you can set the ranking for each of the tokens inside of the crate uh that will in turn determine the drawing odds so how likely each one is to come out of the crate and then you can configure sort of the price and you know pricing mechanics and sort of set it to whatever level you'd like and then other people can come and open the crate and hopefully draw an item from the crate uh and hopefully this will create sort of a fun uh very quick and easy to understand user experience around nfts that kind of gives people exposure to uh different games uh also sort of replicates the really fun aspects of of all the best nft games like cryptokitties you know the fun part is you know suddenly seeing something that is valuable and rare coming into your ownership uh and and kind of have that moment of joy uh on on on on a simple and easy to understand game um so that's kind of the high level idea uh we've gotten the smart contracts going a little bit and what i wanted to kind of get from the audience here was an understanding of you know what do you think is sort of the economy for this is is it viable um and then perhaps you know other projects you might have seen that kind of try to do the same thing maybe some hurdles that they've hit um yeah i just kind of wanted to get uh to pulse the audience around um what they feel uh is is happening in nft games and if this is valuable it reminds me of mokens remember nick mudge did mokens and they were like nfts that owned nfts and it was a way to package them i think it's similar to what you're talking about i would check those out such just like tokens but with an m mokens i think that's what it was this this is like similar to that i think look at check some of the token standards too i think that at this point this is one of those things that probably someone is trying to standardize and there's probably some different arguments about which one's the most gas efficient and stuff like that david might know more about different tokens but maybe like 11 55 or something like that i don't know a ton about this it's definitely something that's that's i've seen a little bit i think that the twist i would add to this to make it more interesting would be the actual loot box mechanic where you use zk or some kind of commit reveal some kind of uh you know incomplete information scheme where basically loot box could be bought and sold and then kind of opened and then like randomly you would get like you you could take a bunch of things put them in a whole bunch of loot boxes and sell them and one of those could be worth way more than the other one and it's about the random discovery of of opening them up that would be cool that that's where i would kind of lean on that cool idea yeah you could definitely do that with a commit reveal i think um yeah it's a two-phase commit reveal sort of scheme and it's kind of similar to what other games sort of best practices here very cool very cool the one i think is maybe adjacent like i'm not as deep into the the nft side of the ecosystem but one i think problem that i have heard kind of exist in nfts is just like liquidity and valuation of nfts because obviously like erc20s are very liquid it's much easier to have price discovery it's a bit more complicated with uh tokens that they're only exist one of i was wondering if i've just kind of thrown this out like if there's any way that that bundling these things at all makes that easier because you can kind of get the value of a whole box as a package um that might not make any sense but it's just going to sometimes but i think that totally makes sense so that was kind of the ranking so when a person creates a new create and they they set it up they set a ranking for each of the items inside of it so that uh that gives an implicit sort of saying hey this is the rarest token in this crate and these are all the other ones that are sort of like just really basic uh so and that and that ranking will travel with that nft everywhere so it's kind of independent of of the nft itself so yeah hopefully that's leaning into my zk idea here and saying how cool would it be if you could see on chain the the like the the outcomes like basically i took all of these things and i packaged them up into all of these things and you can tell on chain you can trust me that those things are packaged up but you don't know where they are and people can randomly grab them like definitely like that's a zk thing and that that's like perfect for it probably but you don't even need zk you can do that with commit reveal right yeah you can i think you could do that with just commit reveal right now and and the way it works is you can see everything inside of the box and you can see exactly yeah odds to be visible but not the actual items until it's opened well i don't know if that's possible if unless jesus fit the odds but unless he's creating the items i don't know if that's possible because if if like he's taken some it'd be like tornado right you you would have off chain slips that represented each of them yeah but even in tornado you can still see like i can go look at how much dye is in tornado cache all right i would make i would make 100 loot boxes and i'd fill them up but the ownership to each one like you would be buying a slip that would get you a random one of those but you couldn't tell which one was yours until it happened something like that we're taking up too much time i'm sorry thank you thanks guys yeah like i said if this time at the end we can revisit some of these um projects again um next up is hoodie with off hi guys uh can you hear me yeah okay so uh i was also working on a subscription protocol actually i know we've already had one but like just hear me out so yeah what i was thinking is like uh create a central uh contract similar to a uni swap model like each content provider can deploy his own uh subscription contract verify uh giving all the parameters of how much amount the subscription should be which tokens he wants to accept and all that and then uh basically the users can select their plan and then they can approve uh multiple installments in one go or as they wish basically they can do the approval part on their own but uh now what we do is we let anyone call the transfer uh function so then anyone with anyone in the ethereum can call that and get part of the fleece for for himself and we just batch this part so then we can uh kind of do the subscription that way and on the distribution on the receiving side i was thinking maybe just a basic one can be there like i just send it to some user some uh content provider or there can also be uh complicated models like if there is a blog who has multiple writers and you want to stream money to all of the writers we can maybe do that so i'm still exploring stuff over there but like that is the basic idea uh i'm mostly because of all the uh community tokens and the social tokens and personal tokens so i was thinking these can be used somewhere they can either be used on the distribution side or on the payment side so somehow doing it for them basically yeah so any thoughts on that uh yeah it sounds good i think the part that i was interested about was um the part we said that they the something was aggregated and could be posed as one can can you just go over that one more time yeah so what we can do is uh basically just take a small payment and the first go like the next uh whenever the next bag starts like a monthly batch or in yearly batch you can select whichever you want to be a part of and then yearly like on the first of each month maybe we can have any random person call the transfer function and the the subscription basically it gets executed at that time all the subscribers he will transfer the funds for all the subscribers in one go like as much as possible as much as the gas fees would allow basically but for doing this he can get some part of the fees so then he is also incentivized to do this and basically anyone can do it after this himself does it maybe some random person one kind of idea that i thought of while you were kind of going over the first time was like there's definitely um i think there's an opportunity for uh these like subscription and payment stuff to work with like meta transactions so that the user doesn't have to send a transaction to austin so yeah i am too uh but yeah so the user wouldn't have to like pay gas to to actually subscribe to something so that could be cool like i was just thinking like if you use like die which has the permit function in it music could just like sign a message and send it out and then um yeah like a relayer could kind of process that um and it takes something there so that might that might not be possible with all tokens like like i said has a permit function but like usdc i don't think it has like some other coin maybe all the personal tokens though usdc actually just added it because there's available they they added um yeah side note but check out usdc 2.0 it's got like all these meta transaction things but did they do your 777 stuff by the way they don't do seven seven seven they just do just that's cool they could that well actually they have yeah that's this is another discussion but um you couldn't do any arbitrary token with meta transactions just like the few that support it i yep i linked up a meta transaction contract that we came up with that was basically like basically using the nonce as a time stamp for replay protection so you have them sign a meta transaction that says i will allow you to or allow a relayer even a third party to send these on my behalf within some kind of time stamped range and it becomes valid a relayer someone pays the gas moves the tokens and then it's invalid again until that period elapses and i posted that in the chat but i think there's definitely like it seems like there should be more stuff going on around subscriptions it seems like we should already have like a patreon that's just great and we sort of have some you know clones and ideas of about this but i think that's the coordination mechanisms around the streams that are going to be uh kind of the interesting part to bring things together also guys sorry to kick in but for arf um there is also a standard that bitcoin proposed a couple of years ago for subscription models so maybe i can look it up and share it with you later that's the that's the elite standard i linked it uh so i linked to my contract that kind of became the thing that started the lead standard one three three seven one three three seven yeah all right sorry guys go ahead thanks thanks so much auth um i'm gonna move on to the next project which is lucidity with andrew hong if you're on the call yeah hey sorry let me put away my other work um yeah so oh boy let me i guess so start a high level what we're trying to do is increase transparency with government and like public projects so like anything with infrastructure and community investments and the way we want to do this is mainly by leveraging open law um of a credit delegation and then a sort of escrow account which i've decided to go with the gnosis conditional token just as a starting point so essentially all it is is the project proposer and a bidder who wants to manage a project have to agree on an open law contract and as soon as that's agreed upon we'll have external auditors just kind of check and make sure like that this is sound um it's just so there's limited fraud because the whole point is just we want limited fraud um and so once that has all been signed we can have page nation kind of on that signed contract for any funders who want to fund the project so then it's connected to the same open law contract um but then anyone who prize funding provides it through obvious credit delegation which is tied to that original contract of um like the bidder and the project owner um stop me if i lost you because i'm not great at explaining this without using a diagram um but yeah so all that that's essentially kind of how it's going to be managed so then the credit um the conditional token vault will have all of the die funding or usdc funding whatever we decide to go with from ave um and every oh sorry i forgot a important point in that original open law contract between the bidder and the project owner there are going to be set milestones so like five or six milestones for seeing how far like the project has come along if it's like building a new school it's like has the foundation been laid had all the materials been sourced um has parts of the building been audited right and so with every part of every milestone that's met um then the auditors can check off that condition on the conditional token and release that die to the borrower um that's essentially the full structure we have some ngos in the honduras and wider latin america that we're going to try to work with to kind of pilot the project that's probably after the hackathon for the hackathon we're just using a historical infrastructure project um to kind of just show like how this would run through cool i don't even know if that's where we're at i don't even know if i have much feedback this just sounds i've been like waiting like i was i was like they launched the um you know this like delicate delegated credit line yeah thing so and i haven't like heard anything i don't know has that even launched yet or have they just announced it a lot um yeah i'm just gonna i'm just like excited to see like i was excited when they launched it and i haven't heard anything actually using it so um yeah that sounds awesome yeah yeah because their credit delegation actually ties into open law like it forces you to use it so i'm like okay um i think my main concern right now is i don't know how to handle the auditors i guess like i was originally thinking about do i need to create a dao where you have certain roles and you're either a funder or an auditor or project owner um and kind of use that to manage things um the auditor as in like the person who's determining whether the step has been reached yeah so like i guess we can call it an oracle because it's just going to be an address that gets signed um but since that's the main centralized component um we're still kind of trying to think through like do we need a doubt because if we have a dow then like what the transaction costs get a lot more expensive and we don't really want to deal with that and like if we have to move chains in the future then we have to worry about the dow can move chains maybe this is just my like impression of the this open-loop thing but i mean i feel like the this credit delegation it's already like kind of somewhat centralized to begin like obviously it's using ave it's right protocol but it is like there's like a legal agreement of one entity delegating credit to another so i think it you don't necessarily need a doubt because you're already doing this like kind of hybrid system okay it's fair to yeah just have like an entity that's gonna like approve those things it could be the same as the funder it could be someone separate i mean like if you have extra time and you like want to throw a dow at it like go nuts but uh but yeah start with minimum viable decentralization yeah exactly yeah exactly yeah we started yeah sorry credibility supply chain you've got the delegated uh funds now it seems like the composability is all kind of lining up to make this work it it's all about that pilot and getting it to work right obviously putting together the tech getting a little bit of funding but then putting it in people's this is this is another great place to be experimenting you may be years ahead of the actual implementation and it working in the real world maybe you're right yeah but but but keep experimenting keep building yeah yeah i'm really excited for the use case i think right now besides the auditor part it's like trying to figure out the intricacies of open law um has also been taking up most of my time um cool but you you be the auditor at first understanding that you can abstract that to some other governance later don't let that block you okay okay yeah i'm like nancy i'm like how much do people criticize these things i have no idea well they will but don't listen to the trolls keep building right okay okay well i mean that's all i had just fingers crossed that there's nothing blaring wrong or missing it sounds cool i'm stuck in it um okay if we're wrapping this one up i'm saying i have to bounce but uh looks like peter pan's hopping in to take my place downgrading i was gonna say upgrading but all right take everyone hey let's cheers um yeah next up we've got rishi and his team with project supply chain hub i see you all in the room rishi just give rishi a minute to unmute um can everyone else hear me yep okay okay well while we wait for rishi um there's also another project here defy poli um i'm not sure if ludo's in the call yet though he might still be moving over from the other room um if not let's see is there anyone else here that wants to chat a little bit more about their project while we wait for the other two project people to join i'm happy to continue i know you are cool um yeah let's chat but um i might need to oh rishi's here sorry alex i'm just waiting for my team to join our team to be shifted to this room uh so then i'll continue would that be all right okay well alex you can chat and well actually ludo's in the call so i'm gonna give ludo the opportunity to present his projects um defy poli and then we'll get to rishi hello hi can you hire me yes perfect yes good um just trying to put i don't know if you see my background yeah now yes just just a picture so i don't have any webcam so hello everyone so defy poli is a boat game it's uh inspired by monopoly and monopolies is now more than 100 years old it it has learned everyone about the traditional bunking mechanisms about the capitalism uh how to invest how to borrow money and um i think it it has educated a lot of people about that and um i would like to reinvent the game to adapt the concept and the financial mechanism to what is the defy today um i would like this game to to educate people about blockchain the decentralized applications and define define mechanism and so in that game the player the players will have the ability to stake money to borrow to raise funds by issuing tokens like an icos and there would be an integrated marketplace to exchange the assets during the game and i would like this game being full decentralized so everything will be performed by the smart contracts of course there will be an eight game in-game currency with a classical erc20 token but everything in the game would be performed by by smart contract every rules and every financial mechanism so um it's um it's a challenge it's a challenge to to get it fully decentralized and it's also a challenge because i would like this game to be addressed to people that don't know the blockchain ecosystem yet so i would like the the user experience um being being easy so people don't don't have an ethereum account yet and so they they would need i would need some guys less transactions using using relays i will also deploy this game onto the layer 2 because i think it's um it's a good option for for this kind of game layer 2 offers um quicker transactions and and cheaper transactions so for this kind of game it's it's perfect so i would like to to deploy a layer to this game and yeah that's it that's what i plan to do so one question is traditionally in monopoly you have play money uh you think of like creating just like tokens out of in a uh fullest game and then you know using different d5 printers as different events like and little like boxes you know how would you imagine like the gameplay being like sorry you mean the the design or yeah how do you how do you play the game yeah it's like nobody normally monopoly money you try to get more monopoly money and you try to bankrupt everyone else right um that's kind of the goal it's it's like what so in in the crypto version of this is like you know you don't have monopoly money uh you just have tokens right do you imagine having tokens as like in-game money you know et cetera yes yes i have the points at the point um the the money in the game is a fake money like in in monopoly um so it's it's a token created for for the game for the game session and for all players the same session there will be um erc20 contract and stunts and um so let's imagine in the classical monopoly people have to buy a property and build houses and hotel and the property in the game it will a bit it will be a bit different so people are funding crypto startups and they have to invest in the startup to make the project price to increase the product price and get more revenues from there from their project so to invest in the startup they have to raise funds and uh and so on that's uh that's the idea it's it's kind of like a just it's it's more of a gimmick than anything right like you do you do defy as the gimmick of the game the game runs on blockchain but really you'll probably want to have it on a side chain it's more for like exploring blockchain dev than it is and education right educating people on like you could land on the the sushi swap square or you could land on the rug pole square and and really it's just fake money that's just getting moved around and it's just for fun and people playing around and educational purposes but yeah i think it's it's a fun place to get out of it i've get out of them permanent lost card yeah there we go yeah impermanent losses in the corner yeah supplied liquidity tokens yeah yeah so there's there's a lot of like fun gimmicky things you can do here and i think that's what i would lean into but yeah you can do you can do meta transactions you can do gasless stuff you could do it on a side chain it makes it more and more complicated i would simplify it as much as you as you can but still like it's just for the gimmick lean into the gimmick play around with that and i think that that makes for a fun uh hackathon game which i've made many i i am i am a build a game out of it and put it on blockchain for the sole purpose of doing that for fun so i can support it thank you thank you austin yeah you're right it's it's to educate people it's and also to educate myself i i will learn a lot of things technically um but i would like to educate people i i really would like to play this game uh with my friends and my family once once it's it will be i could see a really literal take of this game or on chain but like you have literally you have um you know ever you have like say 12 hour rounds or 24 hour rounds and everyone rolls a dice and they go around this square and they can buy a property that spawns at each square like if you if you're on the square you can you can only buy like the property which is an nfc with tokens right uh from the squad and then like you could take a very little stance from it all and i could that could be a really interesting like multiplayer kind of experience but that's generally pretty potentially really hard to like execute right but so like kind of just leaning into the meme could be just funnel right as well and like being literal monopoly like you know on chain but if i can lean in for a second as well for ludo by the way nice nickname um so um i like what peter pan was saying because basically i mean you can just mine nfts on the on the game itself and you can use them as collaterals as well so if you really want to play the d5 stuff then you can actually do it without people even realizing that they're interacting with a blockchain and you know they mine nfts just by playing and conquering the squares thanks so much i'm dude i'm gonna need to thank you i'm gonna cut you off there just to give the um last two projects an opportunity before time runs out but um next up is supply chain hub with rishi and the team and yeah you guys can kick it off yeah hi everyone ah so i'm rishi uh so our project is basically uh as it's named supply chain her so somewhere anybody it's basically a platform where any non-technical person or a technical person can come and make a supply chain uh so basically uh from the start one of the uses of blockchain have been supplying or keeping track of goods so what we propose is a system where uh any non-technical person can come and create a supply chain from his product or his company uh so basically we want we are trying to implement uh uh the generation of smart contracts through python code and the user attributes or a customized attributes that will be taken by the from the user um so we are working on that interesting generalizing generalizing supply chain sort of like coming up with here's here's the mvp of the metadata you need for a supply chain we're going to generalize it here is a package where you can clone it so it seems like oracle's would be really important there how how do you how do you verify information along the way on the supply chain basically uh verifying the information i will be tracking uh it's basically for tracking products uh uh as per as we have thought uh so the manufacturer or the one will create the product will give it a unique id or uh one of the products will be tracked to a lot and in that way the pro the qr code of the product can be scanned uh individually or in the lot which will be tracked along the way and if the customer wishes to see how from where the origin of the product was and he can just scan it uh so basically we came to this use case uh right now in kobe 19 and india also in india uh from where i'm from um there have been lots of cases of uh pharmaceuticals creating duplicates or the marks n95 mass which are being used have been duplicated uh so if a customer wants to track his or her mask or the pharmaceutical or the medicines uh frog to their origin so that was the basic use case so a supply theme uh can be created for any non-technical person who is creating legitimate masks he can uh a customer can track his order to that uh manufacturer i think this is one of those i i talked about this earlier about really um big blockchain projects right now when you have a very ambitious project when you dig into it and you start picking out all the different pieces you find that in our industry it's so new that there's a lot of missing pieces and blind spots i would say just just dig into it and find out and you may find like that that exact thing where what we need is a simple oracle system that runs on phones that's backed by some token so anybody in the warehouse scans that thing and it you know uh goes goes in and marks it on chain or something like that there's probably just like a ton of things that if you tried to build this system you would find are missing and you need to fill in and maybe attack one of those smaller pieces as a hackathon project leading up to kind of a combo move where you can actually build the whole uh project go ahead peter yeah i second that it's great framing actually um i would probably not overthink it too much and just try to start building and see where you start and you know you're likely you know it's unlikely you'll solve the whole problem you know but you'll end up likely at least building one or at least kind of ideating around and you know outlining what is one of the building blocks right and another just piece of tangent generic hackathon advice that goes out to everyone you build and throw away many many times before you find the winner and it's just part of the process like not not that this is anywhere like a bad idea this like supply chain is a perfect perfectly great place to be innovating for ethereum just saying as a hackathon developer don't be too married to a specific idea uh ideate and iterate and get it into people's hands and see how they use it and build within the space and see where those blind spots are and fill those in with with good builds i would also want to i also want to discuss one of the issues we are facing currently uh so we are trying to create an app uh using for android or for any app using clutter or android uh so basically there are no libraries uh the web3k is a static library or you need to produce static code for that uh we wanted something uh that can connect to the blockchain or the supply chain uh using the api of the uh contract or something similar that can create a created dynamic system for that uh such a thing is available for uh native react native or some uh web platforms but the web3 library hasn't yet been uh upgraded for android so any suggestions on that part that someone in the chat just said it you just found one of the holes in the ecosystem that needs to be patched right that's how it works you'll you'll find something that's totally missing and that alone could be a hackathon project i think if if i were to give you some advice go look at uh so alejandro with the open money initiative he and i kind of branched when we were building the burner wallet and i built the web version and he built an android version i think the guy building actually you may know peter his name is mccall the guy who did the link drop stuff yeah what's he's familiar with uh yeah so alejandro right uh match yeah like i'm not sure if it's not last name but yeah back in the day you know nearly a year and a half ago but mccall i think did build like an android version that did some some smart contract like link drop stuff i would i would look into that stuff from those guys and hit me up in chat if you want a link but they may have something that works again though that sounds like a hole that we could be filled in we're probably using up too much time too we probably better jump for the next yeah thanks awesome and also um rishi you can like reach out in the chat channels um everyone is there so you can maybe ping the hack support channel and yeah we can help you async next up we have al dorado no optimistic roll-ins with michael um and then el dorado cool thank you yeah so i decided uh instead of making an app to actually build a kind of a protocol here um so optimistic role is effectively are uh layer agnostic rolands um so in instead of rolling up to a chain from another from another layer uh you roll into the same chain you're already in so for example let's say let's say you're able to reduce your entire state of the user to one uh to one merkel route um you can then optimistically tell the network what it what what would happen if you call this function uh and then your state routes just build um and then anybody can prove fraud um in anything you've done before so where this is useful is let's say single player games most of the time uh multiplayer games right you you you you use up you know layer two roll ups but for single player if you're hitting the chain is very expensive instead of hitting the chain for every single thing you do you can just say here's what i want to do here's what would have happened up make my state that right now and then anybody can go ahead and prove that any of my transitions were wrong after the fact so it's it's there's there is no layer two you're just effectively optimistically uh updating your state um where it's also effective is if you don't have a single state for every single user let's just say it's it's more more about multiplayer than it is about single player up state updates you can save a lot of the gas that would normally go ahead with that let's just say for example this is their knowledge proof so the zkp's 99 of the gas for a zero knowledge proof transaction are verified as their knowledge proof so what you could do is say i'm not even going to make the chain verify the proof trust me that this zero knowledge proof is valid and that my state would update here um and then anybody can go ahead and prove that no if i actually did call the function to validate your proof it would have failed and therefore i'm going to challenge you so yeah it's just effectively layer agnostic uh roland's and i have a looking prototype there's a dk zk there it was z it's not zk it's not zero knowledge whatsoever okay yeah it's just it's using so i built previously i have built a merkle a merkel proof library that does appendable dynamic merkle trees um so you could you could effectively append it's like merkel mountain ranges but it's a little different um in that there's no bagging the peaks but again it's neither here nor there the idea here is that there is no zero knowledge proof in this it's effectively just merkle trees um where your state transitions are just larger and larger and larger merkle trees and then any and then you can you can go ahead and prune or exit your optimism the optimism part of that um if you wait enough blocks or enough time so i have to admit that i i i know this much out of the mountain of optimistic knowledge there is so i don't know a ton about this i think that it sounds more something like you should be posting this in eth research keep building get some feedback from from the big guys i'm a lowly fish company i mean like what can you build essentially you do it's essentially like it's a cheap way to verify a bunch of like on-chain like interactions about actually the transactions being on chain right and then you settle it and you verify it right actually will be on chain in this case they're all gonna be on chain sorry the data that you would have passed would have been unchained it's just that the function you call doesn't actually call the underlying pure function so anybody can see just to see this transaction and say these are these are the events that were launched these were these are true this is the call data but the actual logic was never executed i see yeah so i have a working demo like this works right now i have it running um so what are you going to use it for so yeah yeah i was listening to um so i have a game that i'm building on the sides this is why i built this because i figured i might as well you know build something for the backathon but uh there was this there was this game that i heard somebody in the in the first day mentioned that they were building was the dark force or something so dark force uses zero knowledge proofs and so like again 99 of their gas costs are probably the zero knot troop itself and they said because of the gas costs and because of the the chain being slow 12 seconds slow right um they they built the game in a way that a player has to do an update every couple of minutes because if they were to play and update the state every single time it would be too expensive well in this case the player can actually play offline right do thousands of state transitions and then just say by the way i came out of the subway uh here's everything i've done just trust me that this is the final state or trust me that all these state transitions produce all of these states and just append them to my merkle trees and then anybody can say well that's that's either you know correct or not correct after the fact so it's really useful for single-player games and so i if if no one else uses this i'll use it for my game that i'm building but that's what i would use it for and the way it's built you can actually you can actually use it on optimistic on updating itself so you can build a smart contract that does an optimism optimistic roll in on an optimistic roll-up yeah i just want to reiterate this is i know above my head enough that you should be talking like don't don't uh don't stay in the weeds on this one come up for air and talk to people and make sure you're communicating with people in the space about it yeah what i want to get ideas here is what can i use it for or what do you cause i don't know enough about the defy space or or enough about the game space to know where there are current problems or where there's a lot of gas usage uh where i can apply this i mean i can do that research myself but i guess that's what i'm here for i i do agree that you will want to build a great example in showing people how to use it exactly but you're i think this is at the point right now where it's like this is like you need to do all the game theory and figure out you know make sure that it's going to work and it's solid and and go to guys like vitalik and have him tell you why it doesn't work and you'll have to find out right and you need to know that you need that feedback so that's what i would say is go get that feedback from guys a lot smarter than me i posted the links if anyone want to take a look uh but if you have any ideas on how i can uh show it off as an example that i'm building under stealth so i don't have a link to the game um but uh i'll just tell you what it is ahead of time it's a complete entire clone uh head to toe of the latest generation of pokemon every single thing all the all the co what but there's no ip because obviously it's just data right so you bring your own front end you want to skin it like pokemon you feel free but all the code is exactly the same so because there's a single player component and a multiplayer component you can use the optimism to do the single player stuff like say hey i did all of this for hours and then here's my new state but then when i want to exit the optimism layer because i want to fight against this guy and therefore we have to do an on-chain battle or or a state channel but that's neither here another either but yeah but yeah those links too are i don't know why i posted it twice but uh yeah those are um the merkle tree library and the the example of the optimistic role in uh i'm gonna try to build a battleship game um so like imagine setting up your pieces would have been individual moves which is kind of wasteful and then say okay well let's prove that your state of your battleship arena is correct before you start playing just a little game just it doesn't really show it off that well because it's it's wasteful on purpose the dark forest guys actually mentioned battleship as a good example of a build so maybe that is a good like very very simple too right there's not a lot to battleship well i like to reach out to them i just don't know how to do it um because all they have is their telegram and whatnot i can connect yeah hit me up feel free for cups thanks so much michael thank you i i just posted those links because you sent them to me in a private message oh i didn't realize that sorry but it was not problems i just shared them with everyone there thank you um the next project is um al dorado savings account with juan um and team if um you want to unmute and yeah finish off the session yeah sure can you hear me yeah because i was running out of battery um so now we will in this project in which we are offering uh fully uh simple uh wallets for users for peer-to-peer payments and we also have a an exchange in there this is we are focusing on on the market um south america some areas in africa as well and on this event we had the idea of also introducing savings accounts for for us people who wants to um maybe have some money that we won't use for this week for for the month yeah savings classic nothing nothing weird and we are evaluating what options do we have to introduce this and play with a couple of protocols see what attachment we can give to the user we don't we don't show off the crypto jargon in the in the ui much uh we're going to keep it simple we focus a lot on on sale coins so yeah we have a non-ramp uh thing already working uh with circle we just need to um [Music] get the business deals you know because there are a lot of sanctions and restrictions in different countries that we're going to work on so that's been difficult um we have a already companies at the line in estonia we are working on getting our uh licensing and everything together so that's cool um and yeah that's uh this seems to go back to the open money initiative again we were just talking about the open money initiative in alejandro a perfect example yeah so so first of all i think that uh it i think decentralization is necessary in emerging markets and that's where we have to go and you have to make the ux really good you you mentioned it there you alluded to we're sticking to stable coins we're sticking to a simple mental model of this is a savings account and if you can translate that make your ui very simple make it even a browser wallet i'm pro browser wallets make it very very simple so what you get in the long run is something that makes sense to them as this is a stable that like it's not going to fluctuate with the local currency i can put money in and earn a small interest on it i think that the very simple model the very simple mental model of this is a savings account and and then my piece of advice there so first of all validation that's a good idea my piece of advice is getting it in people's hands go go to the local like i went to bars and i handed out paper wallets that people could succeed and use that money get it in people's hands and you'll get tons of great feedback on how do we do that during the coverage yeah that's true yes that's that's a difficult part yeah i was gonna say maybe just do a meetup but you know those are you know kind of illegal some places right now yeah so we're gonna offer uh two different solutions for for different kind of people um you have a custodian solution and a brand new wallet solution uh for licensing issues and depending on the market you know because some some providers even if you want to go on ramp with some providers we cannot offer uh certain things you know so we have to close sometimes and it's uh difficult in the regulation it's also getting a bit too too uh complex as well um so we want to have initially we're going to go with with our custodian uh way first see how it works with like typical mom you know grandma who doesn't know anything about metamask and anything you know and just come here we opened your account and it works and you put money there and maybe you don't have access to dollars you know but now you do because you have usd try it and you can and one on the biggest thing we want to offer is period of pure payment you know with nft nfc or nfc or uh maybe um and up in the middle of next year we want to introduce bring your award so if you don't trust our provider or whatever you can just bring your own thing uh you already have a wallet with your everything together you know maybe a hardwood one and you just want to use our ui and all our connections to the savings protocol that we already set up for you uh because we're going to bring make it very soon you don't have to be the guru of of financial you know academia or anything you know just yeah just just give me our friends i live in the netherlands now yeah and the best thing i can get here is point 25 percent interest rate you know to a maximum as well it's a bit stupid just it makes no sense whatever um so the potential that the trick of often you know bringing people into the current d5 interest rates as well is just on ramping so yeah like this this project in uh career called terra uh blockchain that they mentioned actually i bought a ton of people because they just had they mentioned like the founder was like this e-commerce like uh he had an e-commerce background had distribution channels you know the terror like the korean financials and very liberal and forward thinking so on ramping was no problem right on and off ramping so i think that's one component and you were to solve this on a broader scale and then distribution and i think netherlands potentially might be interesting like kind of uh kind of test ground because it's like yeah i'm not sure all about the you know what things look like on the ground but i think that's something to be kind of cognizant of he he is very cashless so everything goes with the phone [Music] and most of the markets we want to tackle like latin american mobilization you know um so like argentina and venezuela and things like that you know uh so those those are markets that it's vital for something like this to emerge you know but then we we get problems on the on-ramp in the desert because there are sanctions against venezuela they're probably going to be issues with with argentina you can't have dollars um you know so uh when you are on your economy to what matters so yeah we need to tackle that in a way that we offer a legal uh service you know that we're not like in the shadows or anything but to do that and be uh to have to have the own ramp a proper on ramp and be illegal it shocks you off a bunch of uh places you know the places that you want to help with and that's that's the biggest hurdle that we have now um and trying to custody someone else's because be custodial is going to get you in even more trouble you probably want to find a non-custodial solution and you may need to learn some ux tricks you may have to do things on a side chain where it's okay to deploy a smart contract wallet on behalf of them and then have multiple signers for for recovery yeah but yeah that's that works fine yeah that works perfectly for us you know but for if i want to give it to my mom i wouldn't trust her without you know because if she loses out today it's like you know there's no way you've got to find a way that's the trick yeah like that's that's the trick yeah but that's that's why we are working on that actually currently um but until we don't get that 100 perfect we i mean people can lose funds you know that that's no joke so um until we get that 100 recoverable without us which is kind of tricky that's a big big thing you know i think it's a is the biggest thing for blockchain until do we find solution probably we probably won't get that it's going to be someone bigger than us um until then we will then have this dual solution one for like regular people and then one for like morrow's tech savvy who wants to like i don't i don't trust your provider i'll bring my own thing my hardware wallet or whatever and just hook up to our ecosystem because we have like peer-to-peer payments when you use like handle instead of uh addresses and things like that so they just bring a like more um goodies into this ecosystem that you just want to build now um more than one savings solution that's that's the goal for for this event for us cool we'll keep hacking yep my my one advice is just uh you know put it in people's hands and also don't be custodial try i would look at your contract all right yes i think we're good yeah we've um come to the end of the session thanks so much austin and peter um you've been great and thanks so much everybody for joining if you do want to connect with them in the discord they are there ping them um obviously within reason um but yeah feel free to reach out in the hack support channels and there austin's just dropped his um twitter cool guys um you can leave this room i'm not sure what's happening in the main room so there's like a button at the bottom it says leave room and i think that takes you to the other part of the zoom call so you can try doing that um but yeah thanks so much y'all see ya