PANEL: Multi-Stakeholder Governance on Decentralized Finance from G20 to Practical... (Devcon5)

[Applause] everybody let's go into this order my name is Forrest I knew of the founder and editor-in-chief of crimson bar review and I'll be moderating this panel which is titled blood sugar regulation beyond finance and compliance and we've shown the aren't really chalice that will be speaking to us about the intersection of law and well change specifically with a view towards increasing stakeholder participation and I'll take a moment to introduce everybody we have Mia who's the director of FinTech and innovation at the Japan Financial Services Agency yuuta izaki who's the deputy director for research on change and financial services agency Ryan or researcher the foundation the owner of looks them and the web developer of the GRC 20 standard wave over the years he's injured among many others welcome what we would like to do is presentation evil son latest efforts and the g20 level thanks so much buddy this is very my pleasure to give an opportunity to speak at the telecom which is the most direct service so I'm also allowed to be present here as a status of the you presenting as a bigger the committee but somebody say we didn't but I don't be a first appearance from the regulatory community as a typical maybe so before starting my physical part of my presentation survived let me briefly touch of the what we do so happy has great here the regatta coverage in each for National Authority have their parents about village institutions JMX they act as the integrated integrated financial austerity embracing the poor financier sector regressions of the homicides so including the security insurance as well as a closet exchange compared to the other bigger the body's in proper basis jf6 has improved activist and they include the porcelain factory and so we very easily take the force issues with everyone and also address dealer first changing to potassium market by large pockets functionally relative to us first of all the choice of the venue for DC system has resulted in to be timely because Osaka gained a good moment at the g20 in area the decentralized particularly just three months ago during the summit was held here under jabba's presidency here in Osaka and where g20 leaders discussed the typical innovation of our data system anticipating the decentralized technology will be supported with an environment where it can be created the g20 leaders have reached particular concepts only accepting the necessity of the wider stakeholder in researching the possibly moving the center and positively the first of our support that in other aspects the choice of opinion in Osaka maybe would meet the fundamental nature of the cell community because the moussaka had undergone a truly unique development by building the specific pilot architecture with great the creativity especially in combining commerce with the parents almost obviously hundred years ago it can be said that most affects the reason for the financial innovation partition - I know people that you know the correct path to eccentric financial system may be announced that again support the long distant settlement system currently but why your systems and so loo the exchanging of Europe was already in Osaka was transaction with a distant customers such as those in Tokyo the finest innovative financial architecture was also extended to the area's accordingly future stages in Nice which was the first to be rushed in the saga dating back to the seventh century as original derivative transaction in Osaka whoever developed financial architecture has been adapted by dominant budget who pray that our Osaka such market players manipulated to modernize the currently system through a double entry bookkeeping over so you have two years ago that the eventually is to the basis of the talent of a chatty division next slide the poorest to the college's capacities their cumulative wisdom of the partnership architecture for the past may be fully transport since open distributive age a technology to truly devices and many other put the program of virtual services visit that in action the answer it's a long-standing tough spending issues in the digital cash its technical diesel in combination with the context our policy the economic incentives with mine and dissenters a network like provided by the internet and also an irritable neat feature provides evolutionary changes of running these riches in the last model at the answer to that broad chain which originated in Bitcoin is going to extend past applicability to the programmable insulin based of occasions contract avoids the counterparty moon abysmal before and such design based solution realized to live emotional changes in finance and commerce for which the past merchants may have driven as stated in the g20 was like a declaration create assets do not post materialists but respect to the global financial stability as Paris gesture the market cap of the greatest tip twice more in the group repository system as compared to the incumbent financial services in addition many people observed that widely accepted the deployment of the broad chain may not come to in-depth theater because we recognized underlying technology very much wiki's as to the scalability of service but at the same time we recognize that the wide acceptance of the project would bring the great potential to depress the convention would change the game and the it will transport the way of trust as you know the decentralization it's a principle part of the project crypt assets other people broke chain basically they desire to attain pure p2p transaction where any intermediary such as crypt acetic students are not participate in the graduation in fact solutions paper 2008 notice the motivation is first paragraph this perfect no intermediary system designed by cyber developers make it rise to the changing the road in general the degree that the power is sustained by the Pacific particularly patients which standards like physical regulatory targets such as the tax insurance or drift as it extended whatsoever in rarity in the current cryptid businesses Japan Japanese politician impose the department to the classic exchanges to count as a voluntary but introduced with the customers identification rule the rule is motivated by the standard by the part of my reaction test was Preity Zinta obligatory organization which set the standard of the active algorithm so it is try so better sokovia why did they have such big missions we should be aware the our motivation for financial regulators generally has to be coherent negativity vehicles such as to maintain the stability of pointers to protect the investors and consumers and also to prevent a financial misconduct including a pilot requires an antibody level that corporally to the solution motivation the correct way to does it business is sustained by the equity project such as does it exchanges a correct category structure which impose a relation to the transit exchanges do not pull the food guarantee into the transaction since we since we had when we faced a new type of risks that they managed from the technology failure in Krypton based transaction inherent nature photography provides technological risks such as a cyber compromise that may be susceptible structure or the threat of attacks from the cyberspace and the dissipated situation could hear such a basis that occasion to do not cause any restriction to the technology issues were could not provide ability to such as in near future this intimate exchanges radiant network that operates automatically will eliminate current agent agent which is such an exchanges assuming distance we may face the reality of boozy explicit were able to target will face the new challenges as to prison we are able to sustain our inability and to be sure the robust activity and to attain the privacy during issues simultaneously such newest every wedding of us was the difficulty achieving our goals so international to the nature of decentralization as the autonomous region in origin may prevent us from stopping cardiovert one direction was the system studied separation artificial system controlled by the programs would never stop regardless of the self-appointed intervention we are fighting with the most if we take the poor see that perfect prohibits support cryptic transactions it may help activities to overpower a whirlpool underground in the target market so in addition a limited nature also poses a new incentive for hiding the privacy which could reduce traceability it did was very so re/max predation we touch upon the scary divisions as you know well as you know where Peter provokes scalability 20 that implies that the line rate of rocks chase karaoke reforming which is the decentralization issue the achieved service division what this twisting trial represents a development tool man but other people may face new entertainment like a building process the more skilled production just broke chain can be attained the greater concerns over privacy consumer durables use as a regulators we have however many users basic for more convenient transaction community services so we're connecting to the other creditors it may be in future near future their ability and will be a new barrier winding which causes the compressor so assuming this so how should we how should protest a program they have the governance of decentralized furniture system as the moments key actors such as developers academia and security space and the may be latest projects different ecosystem still in the mid independent we worked with enough communication so it was such a preventing the developments it seems that that minimum every stakeholder and do not oppose do not hope a positive Christian and unnecessary dispute it's a sixth transaction so I put up our coordination will be necessity complication itself will contribute to the elite using the gap between Paulo state for that while we didn't as it is hard to define the commonalities between NASA and to create a place for the beautiful deep in consensus among us especially from a regulatory perspective facing the past innovation fast-paced innovation we may possibly react not to like behind innovation but I made no consensus of its value in technology and this committee without communication stakeholders figured that with the face that I am between the traditional Malaysian by those food emphasize the innovation and creative art critics called procrastination is a boost as a window as a costume augmentation just we need to prepare a proper a typical example I will body of the technology so it's a balance between deviation that innovation as expectation among bias to practice so synchronous design for propaganda the future decentralized partition system so just like the JFS they have been taking a step toward that here's the cameras in communications the stakeholders so are we the proxy about a possible for Rico suppliers this relative of extending capacity with the participation of the major such a twisty IMF and OECD and the other where the academic community from the Equality Georgetown University and Cambridge University okay with us to our site so that as well as is industrial experience and stick security and other the developers have also invited to join us so before the g20 summit in Osaka g20 finance minister central bankers we have Osaka also publish cocosori using this opportunity will host it their higher level similar or innovation the future design in the governance system and then want to stay food and fibre services in this session we invite the distant and our CEO the Protege ever see fully the king of psycho fog and the cross not see you without sin revived as the pipe so and then we also invite the shigematsu from the cyber issues and the moderator was the gym right with court as internet was in Japan so our she's motivated sister Sophie in g20 so we hold the magistrate for the discussion [Music] so lastly we must again [Music] greetings opinion for stakeholders discussions of necessity to discuss the future design governance system in this context we really appreciate the recent foundation to to to Udacity is such a great opportunity to have a stakeholder discussion and we would like to evolve into communication the path of discussion in the next is towards stakeholder forum this much [Music] interviewing Sonny and maybe a good jumping-off point would be one of your slides where you introduced an extended Batali's scale ability finally to essentially give us the scalability privacy and compliance and we can attach several stakeholder crews to these three categories just as an example so privacy presence could be focused on users scalability perhaps on voters and compliance perhaps enemies of regulators so first question what do you see is the biggest challenges to multi-stakeholder governance today and maybe a broad question for the panel anybody would like to respond faster day I think the air there's a lot of difficulty in the air creating the pond rabbit between stakeholders but the discussion of the proctor down tempo major people so we stare out the many important aspects so through the discussion of pasta in the technical side even as ever current to remember to achieve the scalability as well as the decentralization and secret issues but the discussions are many people try to be very focused on the issue the privacy of reminiscent abilities satisha so soon as the roundtable discussions over we address or we scare out the underlying and motivation you know I I give it a bounded by a bit aside so up so the discussion so we create a nice site to happen to remember who else is twistings prior issues so much goodie others have a compliance issues so I think they are fast deputed the impetus even what is important its to discuss you know with the parasitic folder so of course that we do not fully understand that developers motivation but the discussions of we recognize that okay I think in case of privacy issues possibly you know based on the enhanced technology has privacy some of we very concerned about traceability issues but what you learn in developer sites they are very much focused on the it's an issue of the tangibility of the three thousand because they cut fiat currencies very private eight has evolved analyze analyze based a privacy so on semester so far we recognize the current regulatory path motivation to use [Music] firstly we take them so I would also over electric businesses it seems right now like on the financial side that there's a lot of focus on the financial regulation because it's kind of like you're coming back to okay VidCon is the thing now we have these assets in 2012 billion dollar market but the problem which I'm seeing is that there's a lot of things happening that are not necessarily financial that could be see financial but this can also seen as commodities and the question is that whether you do when you make the boundary then what should be heavily regulated and what not because the problem with that comes that many of these things are very experimental that media and by putting up a lot of burden of fulfilling life getting licenses and a lot of the rules which currently exists it want to be now I'd like to descriptor essence they will need for relief different system they won't make for a paper-based trustee based system in the be there is a lot of terrible and a lot of those regulations say it's like I mean it looks like putting horses in front of a car you know the car you try it don't work the horse is dead so we are sitting in many of these situations where it becomes very complicated than for startups to just do things you know like the last few years we had a lot of innovation because people could just do it because there was not too many ventilation and now it seems like a humongous package of like a lot of rules comes on top of like the hideous monster developer who just like right this one coming and builds a wall at example so that that's kind of a hard balance the most depressing is to like party understanding quality in society so so currently that regulators has made history most recently in this petition [Music] [Music] [Music] because mix us up was impossible yes we can try to radiation it's relatively easy just fun and just prohibit this visually especially in the Bitcoin system were inside around approximately this autonomous decentralized so especially for regulators so if we compete with technology we will prevent was right now but still we need to achieve this rebo's as mentioned for the society so the people in this society is too the question is how we can achieve these goals even within the decentralized system so the question really it's an open question right now and it doesn't always be able to this sorry even though highest standards work heaviest radiation which about activities priority but still society into this resource then we get must need to ask otherwise engineers even the and then operate together to come up with better solution just just not just by a deviation but also maybe by ecology [Music] [Music] [Music] but you're like there the community is working on two but a bit better society and I always wonder the Comets regulars who are here like you're going to come to this I'm inside but I always wonder how much thanks of all the regular [Music] [Music] is education and these people here at like you guys know [Music] they have to speak to the some of the good you can do for society is that there's this whole other section that due to certain nuances and regulation or lack of regulation we now have these huge massive companies that control all sorts of things about society in our lives and that this technology actually could be used to disintermediate some of that some of these issues so by washing it which I know and not what you intend to do at least we have lose the tools that were trying to enable so the biggest ranch boss may be for us to give us maybe the change of each other - it's a tradition at this moment the give us kind of key the National Society because again as housing the poor manners but at some point in time so their poverty it was delegation like like a little did peer-to-peer file-sharing how this makes it very competent to prevent the top is the senior education right now so the blanket peer-to-peer file-sharing so it's much easier for the people in crimes in the peer-to-peer basis and we give us from no poverty investigation of this area so that's the problem so so we need the passing is we need to understand what is happening and then the second thing is really clear change mindset so that we are not special power in this night space so t2 is still i some sense we need to belong educated ourselves understand the reality and then then we need to get accustomed to this mission reality to find out why we need to talk with others people yeah absolutely I think by the way can everybody hear us in the back of town so I think the education and the understanding different of the technology is super key because otherwise you know you regulate something on an understanding of what financial assets were 100 years ago and once like I assess you know once this is in law it's hard to change or talk to wall back because you have adjusted to the position so on the one hand I think actually the whole regulatory landscape in general government in the last degree has to change logically has to become tax saving I mean thanks I mean first this society is not going back to paper but they don't everything is still like behaving like you know yeah and this internet is going away and you think it's going away and we go on back to our shells of paper in it it's not going to happen so this means developers and tech people have to be part of those regulatory bodies first because they understand them ok how does it work and how good useful Zeus's the implied I mean to the triangle we have down the quadrant so the is it race car here exactly this one so the goal for the regulators is to create for instability okay that's a bit more difficult when we talk about one of our base points because the polarization so and people like crank them up and down you have like any friends like in any market so it's harder than that one in terms of consumer protection I think is in the interest of the whole space to build things that protect people I mean so far as nobody strongly as supporting skin projects and guitar this is mostly like a very small group of people and so there's a lot of things we can actually build security on the chain so because we have the ability to program anything we have the ability to build logic in that makes it safe by design that makes us tear my design which then actually removes the need for regulation in the first place I mean like people think about written CIC always and then people invest in scamming projects and end up with nothing you know if we know the system and some wonderful tool I propose if you are basically putting his money in a smoker and giving overtime to the project you would immediately create a need for the user or for the investor because now he has the ability to reverse his decision at any point in time and his basically risk increases over time which is a very clear thing to see so things like these formal moments where people rush in think they don't get in anymore don't even scroll down the website and then send money only to realize that I actually bought something different than than thought you know that test becomes impossible if we may be smart and fair by design and do that we don't need to create I tried to fly off these security laws for someone we have to deduction world because they really makes things impossible and it also takes away the whole use experience you know I mean one thing why I cos were so awesome work because was the first decentralized anonymous crowd sale ever in history so you could actually just remain very simply and just because you wanted to today actually a lot of the security laws are seen more as a restriction of the small investor to participate in financial markets not necessarily I mean the whole life is a token thing I mean even people that are saving in space can't be investors anymore not because after on the bank account and so this means the garbage community can make more money and the guy would like his thousand bucks can I invest because of regulation you know so we have to really rethink how we applied and when it comes to traceability and then preventing misconduct this one solution is by using Unchained smart cunning base accounts we can attach kyc information in terms of not detailed information but a since let's say a signature that this account is known to some people like some regulators and then if that person does anything can go as easy as he did before by simply sending reflections but in case there's any wrongdoing you very much agree that like through mechanism design we can do all sorts of things that added consumer protections and add in certain guarantees that maybe we really have to get through regulations but all of this hinges upon a programmable environment and just as easily as you can program these things and maybe people might choose to opt in to certain types of mechanisms in the program also to other that's right so you can program like if you have a decentralized blockchain and if you can program on top of it then you can program these your knowledge things such that the regulators can't see and if you can't track you can trace and and if people don't opt into the mechanisms that the government would agree with [Music] focus also is that if you now would regulate this by preventing certain things from something you can say okay you gotta do Co knowledge coins but you can use you know this cave a seat County traders here the problem is you are not preventing criminal activity at all you know you just met committing encryptions the most than ever I mean a terrorist look at oh my god it's illegal to use in person that's not a very naive approaches Iranian transit 20 did good use cases from not happening because of a stupid law and so it does seem like the the binary of this [Music] socialize contacts fails to work that's a bad conversation it's in there when it's done ya know because they can reduce activity but they can also these so that Facebook can't see everything when we talk about financial regulations it's relatively easy to identify one what's the policy going that the stability of the financial system but in the conversation that were having we've already identified several other legitimate regulatory goals provision of criminal entity dimension securities law so I guess the question would be we hear often the decentralize technologies make it difficult for regulators but to what extent does watching health regulators achieve their broader policy objectives so as an example helping to make economies was prone to the nominees yeah it is pretty disinterest oh it's difficult for anyone to that's probably the money for the competition to be more advances but but at the same time so if we think about like to determine I suppose some people walking on like the it is like a pretty really open the registration also is they can do that by using the key or something like that so this will help us to understand what happened in there so maybe better than just nothing biss but still right so we need to identify the suspicious activities history to us maybe we still need to identify we who we need to ask - a mystery so some people says the mushroom is wiki will help us to prevent financial crimes but still study it's not in the past maybe so so he if we but feed one to these people creating this system from prospective community can come up with it up thank other solutions organizations so so this this conversation we are in cooperation between the Riviera's and engineers to come up with better solutions so the in Turkey is probably the technology will help us so social progress but not just a financial system is okay that may be poor suppose it's a project activity achieve the [Music] fear is just a cancer we have to look at the Constitution so that big tech company here they are very high personalized so as I said you know we are looking at the moment came in intermediary services so we are looking at the abruption technologies in in the first motivation parts attitudes of paper so they seek for the fruity patooty base to an exaction very appearance but in reality we have intermediate sense such as exchanges so if we in the future we eliminate such a services we fair trade system but country and we are in the process you know encourage station so we are on the other hand we are we have the big dictatorship a civil rights you know we are very concerned about the kind of competitive competitive competition as pessoa of costia in crisis we are looking at the poses that the hypocenter the process of mitosis radiation so I think the most of them is a very you know we are in very much positive policy here at that time very fragmented station matter one slide is about hyper sequence the other side easy process of that's why so long we have to look at the registration send understand I mean there is like some of the exchanges desire entities which can be already drive and actually most exchanges are they like completely bye-bye now I mean there's barely an exchange that is not an if it has almost no volume I mean btc-e and so on that didn't existed more roots here what but I think because it's such a different nature of assets because it can be so much more we have to think a little bit beyond that because we end up regulating and everything including that organized houses or communities or you know something made up by people like those coin you know you start regulating everything under a financial move of summer when we talk about securities there is a promise of potential future return of the company that's not necessary this thing you know you don't have the same with any of the other essays not really important rights maybe in some state ownership maybe it's just a purely centrist community where the cotton has meaning and nothing else and when you regulate it the same way which is praying a lot of friction which will push the people and that's the beauty of technology it will push the people out and somebody if we ask people to say hey to make it practical and make a order the key in there there supreme is what it would have happened first reason is you create a vulnerability in your system by design which is like exactly the worst thing you could do so this regulator what you could also be hacked data could be leaked so you end up with a facebook like problem and on the other hand people would just reduce it then they will tend to have to to use the other one and because people can just of these coins installing software dolly software it's really easy people will so if you want to get the terrorists or the evildoers or wrongdoers from from what you want to catch them and they might not be in the system them they might be in the other system where you can do it so the thing is this is like like you would like to set them initially it's a catching a ghost then it will be impossible so it's rather smarter to think okay how can we build systems that by design fair and better done and the intent of most people is to actually adopt systems that make sense for everybody I mean if somebody comes along and says I have permits even I would win on the end there's not many people rallying around that except if there's like a little benefit for each one along the way so we have all right it is natural tendency of trying to make you despair in the news for everybody just now have to pick out the behavior and economics how to do that and crypto economics and talk economics how they call it or whatever that's actually a new way of doing that how you direct behavior in a way and not just like from town speaking of building systems maybe the directive question to Danny is so over the last couple of days we've been hearing about the transition proof of stake and so we've also been very about the importance of non-financial use cases what are some of the key features of coop of state systems for instance that you see the ball outside of current regulatory frameworks so some people look at savory taste system and maybe begin to look at it like a security or maybe like that it's gambling or things like that but it's actually this whole new thing where it's it it's kind of like access to participate in the joint creation and a construction of a protocol that then can be rewarded or at the same time risk and so this this doesn't look like anything really that we have on the books and it's kind of a whole and then of course all the things that you can build on [Music] I know that some people are worried that these things might be attempted to be regulated and in more traditional ways whereas it'll quite fit into the buckets just continuing that it may be opening up the regulator's in the panel a one way that people talk about proof of stake to is deposits smart contract it doesn't example is a sort of an investment and the validator rewards are sort of interest earned and so that automatically brings to mind you know check your bank and so I'm wondering from a regulatory perspective how you're looking at emerging lewiston systems not just the period and thinking about existing classification it's a very difficult question because the superficial it seems like the banking activities were like it's similar to other like incumbent Spanish activities but in reality the if we look into details provides lots of differences effective economics within a system incentives or maybe the legal nature so certainly Emily like deployment issue has slightly different features and then we need to look into all the different understand I'm sorry actually economic means of the evil the meaning of the economic perspectives or legal perspectives to understand how we should view is and then maybe I suppose I guess maybe it's possibly reasonably inconsistent but maybe it's not so still this kind of discussion is I think it's right now as far as I know no like really does actually look into this global state system to see come out how we should do it because because we visit our limited capacity or limited knowledge technical knowledge this will difficulty right see what you tomorrow so if it's still early stage in the development so look more like like this anyo is still looked in the like home state Israel moves into proof expected to see covered but at this moment it's it's not the urgent immediately issues so as far as I know no like brigade as a Korea understandable clear idea how we should deal with these issues sir isn't reality right now so maybe for you what do you see as the role of the etherium Foundation and educating not just regulators but other global stakeholders on these new challenges and opportunities so we just pulled them as a resource allocator the other day but I mean you know like I asked these people discussion and that's whether it's a foundation do you have experts maybe [Music] mr. the moment Simon started seeing that way I need to desist that it's going to be put into like one existing degree in that instant that I like I communities conversation and then Thank You Miguel go maybe it's not the time for us to think about it yeah and that's possible [Music] nothing I'm going to do all the pressure but um but if that's possible more rigor and they didn't think of like like I'm going to say to be negative as I'm sure you have more tech-savvy people I'm very impressed they're also great for that [Music] [Music] but I think it's I hope it's included that way but for us to I think that II Nev slow is but I'm never going to control the regulatory attraction but did you have access to personal knowledge of all the project or that's happening and I give if iam has extra with him I'm so happy [Music] [Music] Canterbury [Music] what's interesting is that you're not looking for sick yet and maybe when it comes to a look at them that that sentiment can actually like I know you want to if you want to encourage innovation encourage innovation in these areas that sentiment can actually be discouraging because then all sorts of people that are interested in the evaluators there's someone from a regulatory agency signals we're gonna deal with that later we're gonna deal with it not actually that that consults and a lot of unknown and risk whereas you know if especially if you at least begin to understand the technology sooner and at least like put out maybe not floral policies but memos and things that will let people and be aware of like the conversations that you had and the way you're beginning about these things and I will say just the way that we do look at mistakes that it's more of like here you're providing a service to the protocol into to the community and in doing so you have certain risks associated and can certain boards it looks more like providing like being sort of like a business and in providing a private wedding services rather than like a street I think the big theory is what we will displace it that okay I'm doing this now but tomorrow I need the license you know that's the problem I mean you know people sell stuff on the street all the time it's not a big deal but like now because it's somewhat like money means you needed license and then we slice it sauce like a lot of money which might not even death bigger the problem but the problem is that it mostly takes a lot of time so you want to build a business and then you have to like sit there for two years waiting for a hopeful yes that's just not going to work for any startup and really yeah let's say the truth is happening that mean [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] yeah sorry they usually give us take this approach like this if the ecosystem is small now we can just be gone okay it's a consistent each point on the know we need to ring this up soon so please sometimes ease it up with a system because they can make at least each sudden like noticed and then it's become the opponent probably you have something kind of be like it was changing power with radiators components but at the same time as you mentioned I think Assad is very I think six ability and always if we have open and discuss describe issues among regulators engineers or even businesses these kind of issues it is very good or even worse to understand what your concerns and then we can talk together to come up please thank going to deal with this issue so it's a community 1 1 St just ignore probably it's ok like this going but still we can give some video thanks if you have more career guidance of hearing labor from us on the some dishes probably we need to like make some important who is in the negative we did come up with a wish a mystical something so at this moment we are independently we don't like kind of the page or the poor or something it's very difficult to avoid suffering and one is important so that leads me if we have open channel too even even for the community size or design - for to make you sign Bobby if the regulars like thank you some like your guidance of an idea Paula we are probably the community of working thinking think community may make something important like information sharing attention each other - like this thank what smoothly this is important so I think there we have to make a clear message to the Asuka baby so uh but you said that I was stressful day to see this response it's very difficult for us so we also the staff they know after the past based technology division so far a lot of people need a proper internal touch such arrogance of butter we are always thinking of the dependent concept it's a rebel but no way that it's difficult to Cynthia's response to set the secret service area yeah so uh because that we attend other some of that you know stick what is discussion so what we would like to you know we may not be sensor p.m. assessment but that we would like to to do more closely until the end that kind of the individual sites I think yeah the process of the state from the discussions are very important to the I mean I think that American production point and I would really like to see this in a lot of morning puppies such as play in financial services there it's actually to hire a department of developers that are part of and watching what is going on because on the end everything in this space is like computing engineers so the competent engineers very expensive was is the shortage of the talent is its own life issues the focus in the imminence of the systems we need to have more engineers as I quote ecosystem and then if there's kind of it we have lots of Engineers probably probably immense value to happen so we might be defending you thank you you made my income as a moderator very very easy because as I said I'm dependable you're the most important part discounts I wanted to take an opportunity to open up for questions you can see I have a stack of questions please my name is Jessica I work for major doubts of legal consult your arrest - of the beginning was really great it was it was excellent to see like good understanding of all the problems that are being and challenges are being posed by the centralized finance and to be honest after interacting with quite a few regulators that was that was the really excellent so - please continue this work especially this level of standard setting bodies of the people of these guys like actually understand what's going on and see this not just as risk but the certain you like paradigm that that might happen at some point that I might become real in that mainstream and I think that this idea of interacting with stakeholders and the forum stakeholder for the convention for next year it's it's another excellent idea because that's what we need and to you like some may think that there is no like counterparty or like the discussion participants from the other side from the defector but like so today I was leading a workshop called legal troubleshooting for different projects and there was presenting subject problems to the community of people that gather this workshop legal problems fortify and I asked I was asking them for solutions and actually those that were like winning options in this pulsar scream we're like educates regulators engage in transparent I'll tell lawmakers things like that right try to influence and change the laws these were like the weak options so there is I feel very strong willingness in the defect community and brothers probably for Thomas because logic community they'll in this delve as well to try to tackle this these problems that you'll find it might might seem unsolvable right now but you know these are but the most memorable societal problems and challenges that we suffer mr. right if it's gonna if that's gonna happen we'll just need to do that and like things like this panel and the discussion like that the one that you organized to be the stakeholder forum is just necessary and I think that everyone understands it sorry so I would like to just add one thing to this movie straightforward done to the benefit for example for having developers and I think there's people ways to motivate them and it's saying but not only saying hey sit here you t internet but actually you have to also contribute open source things come up with foot ways of making smart contracts for safe investment or whatever because if you give them good tasks these people are happy to join because they want to work on interesting problems if they're now they're being echidna watchdog there probably is not liking them so an item would anybody want to have them so if they contribute then it's useful and when the mood is they called aspect I mean what I'm seeing is example that their panels made together something like this the problems with it is that's like 40 minutes short talk maybe even in public with other people so this is some of your past discussions and if you've been googling right pebbles over two years we have exchanged very little information in this two years you know because there's like five meetings so what it actually requires is we have taught in-house developers basically being on the scene helping out themself developing ideas themself being part of the community then they're always on the tab and then actually having inviting for someone one day let's sit together in discussion or new internal basis because there's a lot of people like idea they would like to talk about these things but it cannot be that obviously super standardized form it has to be just a room and then people talk [Music] in the short words how do you imagine how do you see from what you know right now there who would like to be a position or role in 10 years and what do you think either like your role like your party role in that come in the trans accountability it was very interesting how the different angles of this so is very good point because in 10 years probably decentralized system will be one hot charger and then probably the regulatory that landscape or the normal delegation will change so as conventions part of the regulation will get a enforcement will be depressed pilot approach so that some people call this as a like focus focus goal is is to vote but the some of the pop of the filtering system will be impressed by the technology were holy self innocence regulators little like probability to get into the poop development as well all the engineers are certain their own understanding the social issues and change is what this help represent some of the values like how much probably amenities privacy's thank appropriate the society so but at this moment the most of the values from the engineering side needs to be directed to the portal but I think it's a little bit too dangerous because the other perspective the radiators consumers rather as a perspective because the society is not to be reactive in the port a still called after kind of the control system so we need to change the polish car system while we go to system according to accordingly with social change or the change of the dollars that takes long time I hope within one year yes but I don't change necessarily at least before protocol necessarily request the engineers intentions other than making something generally expense the obvious of the technologies that we both on top reflect our intentions and then engineers remain one society's mechanisms currently and so I think the regulatory position in ten years is probably not going to be governing verticals try not to be governing the base layer technology and instead hopefully going to be taking part in standards and then a mechanism design in such a way that it can help enable society to business things in productive ways I also think in 10 years that everything will be able to be done in zero knowledge and that most block chains at that time might even have their core state transitions simply as their knowledge person update savers that are completely to go back to those that are not very to saving under new digital transactions so I'll be happy to have conversation anything but but I think I like that he said [Music] like the bird as he continuously but but like the M might be the role as was being my support the best possible way or an ecosystem and experts right places basis for discussion but that's what I do [Music] but yeah so hopefully the pink technology will be something like like a helpful helpful tool for regulators team I think that in the next so I'm super interested in the future I'm very much surfing a lot about what's coming in hot coming ten years is lower a long time frame even though I when it happens I [Music] think as society there's a lot of big big shifts coming so the digital will be completely immersive see virtual reality may are people will spend a lot of time in those world as well in these words blockchain will be the absolute core basis this will be the law of nature in this world look like what do you own what we transfer your money what you can do what you cannot do in the blocks you can cover everything here try to be in the real world the person paying government owning zone so much because then still like the physical world in his digital realms is omnipresent I think definitely as the society is moving towards is a very much more digital age regulators have to become members I mean I think has to be sorted by has to be requirement to people would and to understand and to actually participate in these open discussions and one of the things which open source shows us is that you can have all the discussions about a lot very important things and today it's not any more like little games but it's a multibillion-dollar ecosystems there are public discuss and it works pretty well in such a obviously a lot of process it could be more organized or that ah structure but it's at least already very transparent so I think the future regulators will understand that certain roles it right now does not necessary anymore such because the systems just work different so you can build world in the make system safe by the sides of a certain set of regulatory needs not required anymore and actually being part of the mechanism design and different electronics because I think this will be a very big part of our political discord and society governing society will be thinking outdoor systems in the right way after 10 years we are still fighting with the new Chinese discussion that long table eruption long table our last match so we got the we invited engineers academics and the expert of security so I think they are we we can access to the availab of the person of the such kind of area but then finally you know we have discussing long demo so on who represent the user some so maybe use that motivation is a very changeable so of course the technology change sciences data and in the other hand solar users change Suns is set so you know after dinner 10 years ago so we have you know we had a sabbatical first so done in 10 years so we change the financial services so maybe after 10 years user changes services so we are maybe find it creating a challenges may be made by the immune system some of stages as a strategy advisor and I found that as missing a picture of the missing part of the whole picture and maybe some those key exchanges my financial overreacted will be they are not actually invited to join this kind of discussion and also they are not released something like the malicious manipulation of the price and then whenever entering issues are on here as Jesus Christ they're somehow an important for one of those companies entering the total world so I would like to know your ideas so whether you somehow viewers bureaus all those kind of agencies are going to collaborate or cooperate with those key exchanges to shape the future coming regulatory environmental situations for all those camisoles issues economy concurrent events or you are going to just leave those guys aside if it is nowadays in a de facto passive so ideas it is a very questions comments I think the yeah you know we are making a few already so we have to be fair instead so uh I think we impose the regulation to the cryptex changes so we have comput because there were some exchanges provided under the process of the registration to to our agencies about that we but that was there we would like to discuss with the the major exchanges so we'd like to know the concern of businesses participate the exchange but we as you know we have still challenges in organizing the stakeholders so Tata so I think it's better to organize the for it's better for academic sites due to us so I think it's better to at the whole you know academic and people too the stakeholder discussions so uh I think they'll have to be going to be creative here but so I saw that listen to this the form of the academic side I see that they actually pretty far behind that whole thing as well I mean you think you know your convenience the one on the cutting edge and they're doing all the research but the truth is that is just catching up to what's happening in the blocks in space they are all most likely the government institution some even have some small computer one man said I'm at eleven's on but that's very few people pressing like inviting so if the universities invited these groups to make discussions I think that's useful I personally think I know over like agencies I just have to be beautiful by design because it could be the potential scene and that you know this exchange tries to influence regulator which doesn't to its benefit but I think actually everybody should be invited and it should be openly talked and it doesn't matter which side because on the end the talk is open you know and then suckling infant son nothing if something moves the package uncooked of coins over [Music] the exchanges are only right now there are very obvious places to regulate quickly is there they are not perhaps for most users but the more and more the assets and contracts and just general activities built on top these systems they they might become less and less important from kind of like they might still serve some sort of economic purpose in their place to regulate but they might not be like the the kind of golden gates that you were regulated so I hadn't even see the discussion should be open so if they exchanged much during our discussion which they should do and also a restaurant that decentralized exchanges will make these widest without in two or three years because their most vicious but but as I mentioned like the exchanger is still very important hot assistant in terms of the recreation because in the system basically exchange is the only Bob restrain regulator so you give me another exchanges which promotes exchanges yeah so we need to have some subtle centralization through regulators but at the same time we cannot like I think state like control all the development so see if the exchanges become less important maybe they're trying to be much bigger than this it's very pretty so the exchanges and decentralization it's been interesting topic I think there's no like wrong understanding among the leaders how we think about teaching decentralization in terms of trading platform at this moment the decentralization is very small so we can just not ignore but still we can we can have some time to learn but it is respect province - I think it's just that the conversation with ex scenes is actually happening more before that what in the case of Japan they were regulars being disgusting changes of course but the problem is always men okay that's let us regulate like red stand over there like anonymous employees in all at once without knowing what each talking like what technologies talk to the bartender that part was missing and the last by what was needed is actually education and learning of Archer what or what is behind each of him and that's not possible just are regulating exchanges and I thought that I was there at the time like the father I wish there was more to it [Music] [Music] there's no exchanges if the purpose is actually the conversation with researchers and voters who are actually building things we're missing and I think that something so I think the end of our time and I wanted to pick you back with a question about the 10-year horizon and connected with Neilson and your presentation by 300 your horizon to the Burgess leaving this panel to think perhaps in those terms as well as we think about broader regulatory strategies I wanted to thank all of the panelists for participating and I especially would like to thank you ascend the energy Sun were not just being our guests here that are also being our hosts here Internet so thank you thank you everybody for participating [Music] [Applause]