ES | Finanzas tradicionales & Crypto: más allá de la custodia y el spot trading | MERGE Madrid 2025

Well, good day to all. It's truly a pleasure to be here. Uh, I was just seeing that it's going to be a panel with a Spanish and Argentinian accent, so we're going to have different perspectives. And if you like, let's start in order, from Mauro onwards . Okay, we're going to start this morning by talking about what's been happening with traditional banking and the crypto market, so we can get some perspectives and you can tell us how you 've seen the evolution over the years.

Mauro, very good, good day to all. Well, it's my turn to give the Argentine perspective. In Argentina, in particular, the population, well, found in cryptocurrencies a means of hedging, mainly in stabils. Today, approximately 20% of the Argentine population has had some kind of contact with cryptocurrencies, but the reality is that, well, this 20% was mainly focused on stablecoins, because of what I was saying, inflationary contexts, well, of constant evaluation. The reality is that what we are seeing is that this is transforming, migrating towards a model of taking more risk, incorporating more volatile portfolios, and we are also starting to see how cryptocurrencies are becoming part of people's everyday lives, right?

From payment processes, as I was just saying, transforming investment portfolios, and also from a cross-border perspective, we are starting to see cross-border payments mainly in the SME world, which is a payment alternative. Of course, this volume of operations entails a great responsibility for public and private institutions. And I believe that having a regulatory framework that provides security and transparency to all players is key to its sustained growth. Fabian, yes. Well, in Argentina I think he did a spectacular summary, Mauro , also waiting for the regulation.

Very good steps were taken, the CNB took command and well, now we are waiting for the next step so that the central one can also expand in the rest of the region. We are also looking at, depending on the situation of each country, a specific need, not only as an investment, but also to solve problems. Only then are we talking about the situation in Bolivia, for example, also using stablecoins to make cross-border payments, this, in terms of exports and imports. In Central America, it's being used a lot for remittances, and banks are starting to participate very actively, something they previously viewed with a little interest, but didn't take the first step. So happy, happy and they're not shaking our hands anymore.

Okay, Manuel, from Bullish. How have you been seeing the evolution? Yes of course. And dude, you're forgetting a Portuguese accent too. Ah, but I work in the UK and so in the UK market the evolution was a bit slower than in the US and Europe, certainly.

But there are now signs of significant acceleration. Yesterday, the ban on FCIs that existed in cryptocurrency ETNs was officially lifted, which is a significant step. Well, it is expected that in the coming months there will be regulation like the one in MICA in the EU. An equivalent is expected in the United Kingdom within the next 6 months or so I think. Okay, Horacio, uh, I think you told me you were with N26 in 2022.

No, no, we started offering crypto in 2022. Okay. And how have you seen the progress? Well, I think this is common to European markets. So, what we have been perceiving, not only us but the industry in general here in Europe, has been a change in trend from a purely speculative perspective to becoming a portfolio asset, as another asset to diversify clients' portfolios.

So, as I mentioned, we started a bit in 2022, being pioneers within traditional credit institutions. Uh, and the reality is that our client isn't a very sophisticated client when it comes to crypto. Our client is a normal, conservative client, mostly up to 45 years old, but what he wants is to diversify and basically he has everything from deposits to other types of financial assets such as ETFs or stocks. And what we have seen is that he has taken the leap to adding crypto assets to his portfolio. So, it has gone from a much more specialized technological audience to the mainstream.

And I think that's also very positive, and we can also see the trend changes that have been seen here in Europe with all the new regulations, and how the rest of the banking entities are gradually getting on board, also due to demand from their clients, with crypto assets that are here to stay. Okay, before we delve into the regulatory issue, we could say then, I'm saying this as a perception of a media outlet, but I would like you to correct me if I'm wrong. We noticed that in Latin America, crypto was seen much more as a way to find solutions. Yes, what they were saying about remittances, a store of value, the possibility of making payments in Argentina, being able to buy dollars. Uh, and in Europe you were seen more as a speculative investment topic.

We could say that what you were saying, Horacio, is true now; people in Europe are focusing more on more basic solutions, while in Latin America they are looking at other investment alternatives. We could say that from over there. Uh, I think we could say that there is almost a reversal of the trend. Uh, and while here we started with a, let's say, purely speculative approach, which wasn't always the case, but the truth is that there was a lot of speculation. Uh, also a press that often did not reflect the reality of everything that was being built in the nursery industry.

Well, we've gone from a purely speculative view, with recommendations and suspicion from more traditional entities, to it being a completely legitimate asset that is included in the portfolios of both retail clients and company treasuries, and is even offered by traditional entities themselves. So, I think that, in contrast to Latin America, where the use case was, we have volatility in our currencies, we have to find a safe haven, we are seeing a bit of a trend change. So yes, the confirmation, I think it's there. Okay, Manuel, there are two parts. There is that aspect of Bitcoin that is effectively a monetary risk hedge.

It went from being a risky asset, like venture capital, to a macroeconomic protection asset and an asset for institutional macroeconomic protection and speculation. And then you have the remnants, but the rest of crypto kind of moved up to the big leagues, you know? Yes, yes. And now, there are very serious cases to consider. Well, the phase zero of laization is the stablecoins, and it was clearly very successful.

They continue with very high growth, and I think it's the foundation for all the other cases that come after. Fabian. Yes, absolutely. Regarding your organization, we are seeing more and more projects not only to enter the distribution of a particular asset on a larger scale, but also to find a solution to the problems you are seeing in return. very localized, each country with its own particular situation, and they find very large barriers to liquidity and distribution through this technology, right?

It's not just crypto like this stablecoin to solve a particular payment or remittance problem, or crypto to have some kind of portfolio diversification and investment, but also technologies with tokenization or even DeFi protocols that are providing other solutions in several Latin American countries. Okay, Mauro, I agree 100% with everything you've said. Perhaps I wanted to add a bit of this perspective, didn't I?, of evolutionary stages. Well, the population starts with a need for coverage, becomes aware of the risks and capabilities of these assets, and from there begins to take more risks and starts to try new experiences.

And I believe that also within the framework of legal entities, the world of SMEs and companies that are starting to use these means of value exchange, it inspires the population to also operate in this way. I think they are both complements to what has been discussed. Okay, I'd like us to delve now into the regulatory issue. Um, to talk about this topic it would be good if you could comment on which regions you are working in, yes?, with your companies.

Well, because Latin America is obviously not the same as Europe. Um, I'd like you to tell us, not everyone really understands how MICA works, and how it's being viewed in other countries. Um, we were also talking earlier about how, uh, for example, in Argentina they have been working a lot on the issue of registering virtual asset service providers. Hey, but maybe you can tell us what's happening in other countries too. Shall we start with Fabián?

Yes of course. This, we, the parent company, are based here in Europe in Lenstein. We found that Lenstein's regulations are much more advanced than those in other countries in the region because they have specific registries based on each crypto use case, right? So, from that side we have three licenses and our intention was to attack Latin America already with a regulated crypto structure. And now what we are seeing is that in different Latin American countries, regulation is beginning to take place .

Uh, Argentina, as we said before, with the CNB took a great step and is very much aligned with European regulation. Uruguay is doing its thing, Chile is doing its thing, Brazil, uh, Mexico. And regarding Mica, which is the other thing you asked about, Lenstein is not part of the European Union per se, but it is part of the European Economic Community and is applying for Mica now at the end of the year and the transporting of our registration from next year will be for all countries in Europe as well. Okay, Mauro, you guys from Santander, how do you see the Mica issue and how do you see the issue in other countries like Argentina? Well, firstly I think that the evolution we had in terms of regulation, from discussing whether to regulate or not, to discussing how to regulate, I think is a great step forward.

I think the key is to develop regulations that support innovation but also provide security and support to the players in this market. In particular, what we see in Mica is that it provides predictability, it attracts investment, because having this framework attracts investment and gives security to all market players. And in that sense, I think the challenge is to try to replicate and transport this to Latin America with the coordination that was given with the different countries. In particular, as Fabi was saying, in Argentina we have the regime for losers of virtual asset services which provides a framework for these providers to operate and also provides security to users. And the reality is that, well, we already have a registry with more than 220 players in this market, which speaks to the opportunity that exists in Argentina.

Uh, but I think the challenge lies in this, don't you? To create a regulation that is sustainable, robust and flexible enough to innovate together between Finex, the crypto world and private institutions. Good, Horacio. Yes, that is, we at N26 have a primarily European operating area, therefore, we are regulated under Mica. And I, as a lawyer, can only emphasize how wonderful this regulation is.

It also has its downsides. The reality is that it has very positive aspects, for example, it has brought legal certainty to the market, which is something we all missed. Uh, and the reality is that it's also going to unbalance the playing field a bit. Hey, let's all play by the same rules, let's give legal certainty to the client, who in the end is the one who needs to have that certainty, who needs to be protected. Well, but then the reality is that it also has its downsides.

Well, it's not perfect, just like any regulation. They are always one step behind what is happening in the market. Well, it's always going to be like this. So, it's something we can't fix. Well, I think it has aspects that could be improved.

Hey, Mica isn't just Mica. Mica comes with level two and level three texts, making it often quite cumbersome or even unsustainable to review and prepare everything involved in general regulatory compliance. Everything, obviously, depends on the scope of action of your company, the services it offers, whether it's custody, RTO, execution, whether you issue an electronic token or other types of ARTs. But I think it's good that it has aspects that can be improved. And then there's the supervision aspect, well, they're trying to standardize how supervision is carried out and how each regulator acts, which I think is also a point to consider.

But overall, I think the approach is positive, and I think it's good for the industry and good for the customers too. Well, Manuel, your perspective is very, very similar. We have a slightly more global footprint. We have licenses in Hong Kong, in Germany with Buffin, and in the United States and Gibraltar, and that's why, look, it's not easy, it's a great pleasure for us, but we completely agree that the only sustainable and responsible way to scale any new business model is good regulation. Of course, there are areas that are not covered.

For example, Mica does not cover dif because, as I have said, regulation is always two steps behind the market. But as we see particularly in the United States, now that the authorities are on board and are being more cooperative with the industry, we see the growth that can be had, and it seems to me that we are just getting started on that side of the Atlantic. Okay, in the next question we're going to start with you, Manuel. Um, I'd like you to tell us a little about what kind of products and services you offer, but highlighting which ones have the greatest added value for the public. Let's start with Manuel.

Uh, we offer institutional trading, the Public Exchange is an institutional cryptocurrency exchange. We also have affiliates from a Coines affiliate that you probably know with data, conk media. Uh, I work for the exchange. The added value, look, now is undoubtedly cryptocurrencies and in trading, in lending and and outside, but uh I think that in two or three years uh none of us, I imagine that we are here because of the 3 trillion crypto market. We are here because of the potential that is many, many trillions more than other types of assets.

Ah, and then it seems to me that in that sense the obvious answer is stable coins, but uh that's just the first step. The idea is that stable coins are trying to replace the current system of money, of cash, with liquid value because they have their own custodian. But there are other assets where there is almost no current infrastructure, for example, private equity. And private equity already has a market value of 10 trillion today and is expected to double in the next four or twenty years. It seems to me that this is because there is no centralized infrastructure whatsoever that you have to clean slides to make the areas of greater added value.

Okay, Fabian, you guys, we with our solution is a B2B solution. Well, our clients are banks, they are financial institutions, and perhaps the greatest added value for their clients is having a regulated, technological solution that the bank can offer quickly without having an internal structure that knows about crypto, but at the same time they can rest assured because it's not just that we do things right, but that there are regulators monitoring how we do things, right? So, the final use case is always defined by our client, from the typical case of buying, selling and holding to what we were talking about with the guys from the banks in Bolivia to make cross-border payments or remittances, the use case is defined by our client. The added value is good for end customers; if you want, without friction, the mainstream can have access to the crypto world in the product defined by the bank or institution. Mauro, in your case, well, as you know, the regulatory framework and banking business are in full evolution, but in particular we see opportunities in all business verticals, from, as Fabi was saying, the recently launched buy, sell, and custody services at Open Bank in Germany, soon to be available in other regions, but we also see opportunities in everything related to local payments, in cross-border payments with a more efficient experience for customers, and also in tokenization.

In Argentina in particular, we have had some use cases focused on how clients, for example, agricultural producers, can use tokens to guarantee loans and thus obtain more lines of credit or perhaps lower the cost of that credit. So, in summary, we see opportunities across all verticals. We are designing this strategy to better meet the needs of our clients. And well, in short, that 's the perspective. Good.

Hey Horacio, yes, we at N26 offer a fast, easy and simple way to buy and sell over 400 cryptocurrencies. And then they are very basic functionalities, two, three clicks, you buy or sell. Uh, and the reality is that we always have a partner behind us, I mean, we don't do this alone. And I think it's important to emphasize this point as well, as a little nod to the whole industry, because the reality is that credit institutions alone cannot or could not do this too. And so we go hand in hand with Bit Panda, which provides us with execution and custody.

And I think this is very important to emphasize because the reality is that credit institutions do not have crypto as their core business. So, I think it's also important to have solid professionals, companies with an advanced track record and an established reputation in the industry to provide services. That said , I think we also act as a bridge between the less experienced retail user and all the industry expertise behind it, the polished product development that ultimately benefits the customer. Okay, we have very little time left, so for the last question I'm going to ask you to be brief, but as they say here in Spain, I'm going to ask you to get your hands dirty a little. Uh, and I want to ask you the following.

In recent times, the last couple of years, the last year, we have been talking about how traditional institutions that previously looked at cryptocurrencies from afar are now fully embracing them. We are seeing governments, not just one, but several, talking about reserves in Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies, and we are seeing another all-time high in the price of Bitcoin. And what stage do you think we are at in the world of cryptocurrencies, both traditional and new? Are we in year one, are we in year zero, or is everything already pretty well established? We're going to start from there and come back here.

Uh, let's see, I think Crypto is always in year zero, so permanently. But having said that , I think it's a sweet moment. Regardless of the market, predictions, etc., which I'm not going to get into because it's not my field, but regardless of that, we see the reception it's having, we see regulators issuing regulations, we see the traditional industry getting involved and offering these types of products. So, I mainly think that crypto is an asset in general that is here to stay, that it is no longer a speculative bubble, nor the bad press or the bad reputation it has had over the years, that the real benefits of having it are being seen, both using it in use cases such as remittances, payments, etc.

, and having it as a more diversified asset in a portfolio. So I think that up to this point and to this day we have to enjoy the sweet moment because I think we have worked for it too. Okay, Manuel. Well, if Cripta were a school, it seems to me that we're past the teenage years and going to university. The rebellion is over.

Rebellion, yes, yes, yes. Rebellion. And now we've learned the basics, but we're going to learn more at the higher level . Uh-huh . Good.

Fabian, on a scale of one to 10, I think we're in 3 years with him. This, I see a lot of similarity to what happened with the internet, let's say, right? And the dot-coms, let's say. At that time, they were discussing which technological protocol would be used. I am a systems engineer, that's why I 'm making this analogy to you.

And today, today we're looking at that screen, this streaming, nobody knows what TCP/IP is, you understand? And it's down below and everyone uses it. Clear. And I think something similar is happening with Crypto, not only in terms of finance, but also the technology it brings to the table, and we're not yet seeing its full potential. Yes, I see that the industry is following Bitcoin's price today as a way to get confirmation of whether it's useful or not, you know?

And I think there's even more below that . Okay, Mauro, I think we're in a primitive stage, and the most important milestone we have ahead of us is distribution through private institutions. Uh, and the model there is, uh, convergence, right?, between the fintech world, uh, crypto providers with uh, banks, I think that's the way it goes, and well, and public institutions providing this regulatory framework to grow sustainably. Okay, well, thank you all four of you very much .

A round of applause for the panelists. [Applause]