Stablecoins Unlock Adoption of Crypto for Payments | European Blockchain Convention

foreign [Music] guys how's everyone feeling bit of energy I want to do something different sorry I didn't pre-discuss this but uh let's see if there's some energy in the room one of my dear teammates is celebrating her birthday today it's a big number I can't say the number because you're not allowed to tell the number Binny can you please stand up this is a full group can we get some energy and say happy birthday that's it that's it thanks guys [Music] hello everyone thank you a lot for joining I will try with our wonderful Community to heat it up just before lunch because usually it's always complicated the point of Interest today were very very lucky because we have really experienced people in the club specialized in stablecoin which is one of the Hot Topic over the past year at least great moment people keep speaking about volatility bye bye well lombo when Moon not the case today congratulations we're creating value so please the first thing we want to do today is to present every single a single person it would you please introduce yourself yeah and bye bye Moon Moon with the stable coin that's quite a challenge but um let's now forget we're talking about payments also today um pleasure to meet you thanks for everyone joining thanks for some of the people that specifically come for this panel so thanks um yeah my name is Edward barink I work for World pay uh don't know if everyone has seen this there's some news around worldplay being spun off of the organization FIS closer okay like this um what do we do we are a payment company and we are a payment company that is offering Services when it comes to Fiat online off ramping for a lot of different Industries but we focus primarily on crypto what do I want to talk about today is what is next in payments and for us next in payments is crypto payments uh and we'll have a chat on it okay alright yeah hello everybody I'm the founder and CEO of bitpond at bitbond we are in software infrastructure provider so we're not a stable coin issue or a payment company ourselves however we provide tokenization software to Banks or to payment companies that want to issue their own stable coins um digital dollars digital euros and for us stable coins are mainly a purpose to settle institutional Securities transactions for example so remittances and payments are definitely one very big use case of stable coins uh what I am most familiar with and what I'm looking forward to talking about today is how you can settle transactions like bonds stocks fund shares on chain where the payment method does also an on-chain asset and I'm very much looking forward to that amazing singular breaks we also are lucky to have Tina tonight hi I'm Tina Baker Taylor I'm the vice president of policy for Circle so Circle in addition to being also a financial markets infrastructure company is the sole issuer of usdc and of Euro coin which was launched last June congratulations and last but not least we have avishkara please introduce yourself thanks mate hi everyone my name is Ash I lead crypto Partnerships globally at uh checkout.com similar to a wood we are a payments company so we help Fiat money come into the crypto ecosystem and come out and as Tina mentioned as well we're a stable coin issue of usdc so I'm really excited about talking about the use cases why what's happening who's doing what and what we're what we're solving for and as he would turn shot as well let's talk about the future of payments let's see where this is going to take us uh in the in the current climate excellent the first point actually that people keep speaking both Bitcoin sometime in ethereum when you're lucky and finished the big point is that over the past four to five years there has been a great expansion over stable coins just to name a few usdt 90 billion traded daily so maybe China you can introduce uh to us today what is the current state of stable coins what are your thoughts sure so I think the first thing to acknowledge is that the term stablecoin is terrible we should stop saying it um it infers that a lot of different types of assets are similar and I think the last year has shown us that not all stable coins are indeed created equal um so I circle is a a stable coin issue where the issues a fully reserved 100 percent backed one-to-one stable coins so if usdc they're backed by dollars if you're a coin backed by Euros the actual assets sit in the bank they aren't lent they aren't spent they aren't used to pay Circle spills they literally sit there and tell somebody like checkout comes back to us and and asks to redeem those tokens so what circle is trying to do is essentially digitize cash for the internet so that we can accelerate payments at the rate of speed of the internet and so what that allows us to do is plug into traditional payment platforms that then service retail payments we're a wholesale company so we don't serve retail um but also to provide services for ngos for humanitarian Aid and disaster relief for example so it's really kind of the evolution of money somebody gave a talk about cbdc's earlier and while I didn't disagree with any of the use cases that they presented that's really kind of five or ten years out at best and you know fully reserved feedback stable coins today are solving for all of those use cases so I think you know we have come a long way from the the Genesis of stable coins being used for you know primarily crypto Capital markets activity and moving value around the world for for that specific Market to moving value around the world for all markets so which which name would you like to use not stablecoin but um well I like tokenized cash um if you look at how Regulators are determining what stable coins are within Mika they're called e-money tokens um in the UK we're looking at bringing stable coins into the regulatory perimeter and they will also sit within an electronic money um regulated perimeter so I think it depends on the type of asset again and so if you you know are issuing some kind of algorithmic um decentralized you know stablecoin I think we just need to look at how the mechanism the stabilizing mechanism is is working and then kind of call it what it is thank you a lot it would actually that was an excellent question how do you make the business with stable coins in your company um I think it's good to take an example of how you do processing today so if you take credit card acquiring I'll take you into a beautiful journey of payments right now if you as an end consumer go to a website you enter your card details the merchant accepts that data it goes to the processor via the network or VISA and MasterCard it goes to the issuer then the issuer says yes or no at that particular moment they say yes the transaction is accepted we give the notification back to the merchant saying yes it's accepted and then the fun stuff happens after 24 hours we bundle all the transactions we send it to the issuer the issuer sends the money to the schemes the schemes to us and we do it to the merchant that's four Bank Trends and how long does that all that take so in Brazil this is called t plus 30. so in in certain countries you you as a merchant you need to wait so long on your money it's just unbelievable and a lot of the limitations is a bank transfer this is where we think stablecoin settlement will be a big opportunity where we could potentially move from t plus 30 to t plus zero and that's something I'm really excited about amazing according to you Albrecht do you think that stable Corner only for B2B or it can go to b2c also in the coming years well I'm sure they will gain more traction in b2c as well um if you look at you know the penetration of very simple wallets such as metamask where you can hold usdc and you know other stable coins that are available in the market um there's no reason why people shouldn't be using them you know to send money to each other instead of just sending it through a bank transfer even though instant payments are becoming a thing in the sepa region for example you can send an instant transfer um now uh still you know by the fact that people are using more and more wallets and you know invest in digital assets and not just cryptocurrencies but also other types of tokens um there's no reason why they shouldn't be using you know stable coins for simple day-to-day transfers where they transact with each other I'm not sure what type of market share stable coins might have in the future I don't think it's going to be a hundred percent because there are all kinds of payments use cases but uh you know making a wild guess I think 20 30 40 percent of the total payments volume is very likely to be transacted in stable coins at some point over the you know next years yeah and let's not forget sorry to step in that we call it shapa and it's going to be instant surprise that's a great feature but let's not forget that on a global level still 1.2 billion people don't have access to a bank that are unbanked or underbanked so this is opening another gate of people that definitely have assets but they're being classified by Banks as while not being able to open an account let's put it nicely for the people that are in the room representing a bank um but it's important to understand right this is just opening a bigger group of people into the financial ecosystem of payment so it's not only cannibalizing on what we see today I actually think that the the ecosystem will become a lot bigger because of this yeah so a couple follow-up points to that I think when we think about people who are underbanked or unbanked that's one end of the transaction potentially so if we have faster payments or you know sepa um those are National networks or Regional networks typically if you want to send money to somebody in Argentina for example I've got my friend here from Argentina in the front row um then you can't use faster payments for that and then you're looking at a bank transfer or some other type of you know fintech service which again takes potentially three five days to to settle um and is very expensive comparatively so I don't know if my pal from Stellar is in the room but Stellar uses usdc to as a settlement asset for a number of cross-border programs that they have in place and one of them I'm going to get it wrong and he's going to correct me I'm sure it's either Argentina or Colombia there is a pilot right now where the typical cost to send a cross-border peer-to-peer payment is like 5 0.6 percent to send that with usdc using a stellar wallet it's 1.

6 percent so for that recipient who may or may not be banked they can walk into any MoneyGram store anywhere in the world and cash that out and that's incredibly powerful that's happening today at scale um and then I think the other thing to to note is um since usdsc was launched five years ago it's responsible for settlement of somewhere around 8.6 trillion dollars in transactions that's on chain transactions so going back to your point that's net new economic activity that's not replacing or any eating anyone's lunch actually that's a very interesting way to say because stable cons do provide value for the customers at least for banks you don't see it every day but actually you will see it on your fees in the end of the year congratulations but the point of interest that okay is it stable is it actually is it audited how how do you what's your what's your take Sharma well I mean Tina you're probably more of an expert at me on this but you have various ordered mechanisms around how it's pegged um you know how digital assets are now accounted for um which Fiats backed by and obviously how you disclose those proof of reserves to the ecosystem right because we want to instill trust where we're now enabling a new world of efficiency and we won't enable trust so I think the more transparent we are with you know mechanisms like this the better it's going to be for everyone to grow um I think as well and you're touching a really good point on the retail use case and I'm going to hit the B2B use case as well sorry but the retail use case around you know International money movement is so important and I'm an ex-banker I worked at city for 10 years so I'm very familiar with as everyone in the panel here is as well that you have agent banking networks across the world and that use case is yes B2B but importantly remits and remittance and payout services so I think a the transparency of as Edward mentioned instantly settling but also selling on the weekend because the current system is broken not only on weekend settlements but also local market clearing systems plus it's not just one bank it's about four or five different banks taking a clip of that transaction so that's saving hopefully passes through to the consumer and that's why this is a great mechanism for B2B companies in fintechs that launch payment products and then look to provide more efficient solutions for their end customers so I see remittance companies being able to deliver better savings faster money movement the other thing is what we'd like to encourage in the ecosystem is the efficiency of what's happening through B2B payments so last year you know and same with what it would wellpi did we launched um stablecoin settlement with usdc with circle and again net new activity I think we process close to two to four billion instantly now who's using that and why right and why does that matter to everyone here um take for example an exchange or a merchant that we would Service as a payments company they're getting their Fiat as we mentioned inefficiently so it's really a treasury position here the working capital it unlocks means that you know traditional organizations and for the bankers here aren't re-leveraging their credit line they're able to unlock this with digital assets which will receive faster now that's we've seen companies for various reasons all of a sudden treasurers say you know what we're going to put 20 of our Fiat settlement onto stable coins because that allows me to reinvest my credit line back of 40 50 million a better solution that's the flow and effect for retail including the B2B efficiencies that we see so I think net new plus savings is a very interesting Factor but to your question the more transparent issuers payment companies like we are around the use case and the peripheral reserves will give the ecosystem a better sense of trust and integrity which will help with adoption one quick thing I just want to add on that infrastructure piece iTunes transaction banker and I think one of the critical elements about stable coins today especially in comparison to potentially some of the cbdc designs are the open source infrastructure the open source networks that's really the game changer here and so when you're looking through the lens of traditional Legacy banking infrastructure it is it is indeed aging and it's difficult to bolt onto so what stable coins potentially do is provide access to you know a potentially new rail that that can very easily converge with the traditional banking infrastructure um and it's constantly upgradable constantly being iterated on because it's open source technology and that's a materially different like game changing shift that blockchain allows for I agree especially Bahamas Rip but I mean the Bohemian coin Island pay and how they're using the government disbursements into the consumer's wallet I think part of what we've got to do as well is allow optionality as a payments processor but a great example of that is Island pay taking stable coins and Central Bank coins from the government and you know again slightly bypassing local banking rails but using blockchain Tech to disperse that to a person that's receiving benefits they can get it more instantly and then pick whether they want to offer amp it to Fiat again people developing that up because it's open source they've been able to create an ecosystem play there where it's more transparent and cheaper for the for the end citizens so use cases are phenomenal yeah and I think we're forgetting one really important topic here we're not forgetting I think we should articulate it a bit more we are a payment processor which helps merchants accept payments wherever on a global level allowing you as a merchant to do more Revenue that's it bottom line if you look at the Philippines the Philippines is a great example on the Philippines you have like 75 of the people using a wallet a digital wallet today to do crypto transactions I mean this is a small country of course there's a lot of issues with the government over there but let's say the adoption of this way of paying is picking up and it will pick up because if you look at Generation X these guys they already have these apps they're already transacting with crypto this is the next Generation that will be wealthy if you as a merchant if you're not ready at that stage to accept payments also with crypto then yeah you're gonna fall behind because yeah some of those people that use these wallets at a certain moment will say listen I don't see the added value of using my Mastercard or my Visa I'm going to use these rails right now and I think this is really important to emphasize it's early days it's definitely early days because a lot of people still don't even see why we why we have blockchain we were just chatting about it that if you want to explain to your friends what we do in this space for us it makes sense but for a lot of people it still doesn't um but it will pick up and it will become really big and this is where we as a PSP want to be ready and make sure that if you are this Merchant you have the choice of the wide variety of payment methods either that's in Fiat or whether that's in crypto that's not really important as long as you have it that's and that's really important to emphasize that's really interesting actually I'll break do you see the same mind shift and the way because we have seen the value the hidden value actually replacing progressively iteratively the infrastructure which is Aging for at least 40 years 60 years now in the bank but do we see a switch by the users so new generations in your company do you see more younger people trying to dab into blockchain tap into cryptos yeah um definitely uh I think in the past the primary entry point into crypto was cryptocurrencies and uh viewing them as an investment or even you know an object of speculation um but as people gain experience with you know if you want to talk about it broadly digital assets then of course they discover other use cases and stable coins are certainly uh one of these use cases um also one thing that I believe is quite important is that retail is driving a lot of the adoption um it's typically you know financial institutions and corpers are typically not as quickly to adopt new technologies and using you know new payment methods compared to retail um so I think you know still up until a few months ago a lot of the adoption of digital assets was simply driven by the fact that a lot of retail investors were buying cryptocurrencies of course now we're you know with the market crash it's a bit of a you know a more quiet situation but I'm fairly confident evident that that is going to pick up again um and you know institutions are following that um while stable coins are primarily so far used in retail type payments and you know also in in trading I think a lot of the usdc and usdt trading volume was actually not driven by remittances but actually still driven by trading on cryptocurrency exchanges I think still it's it's a good starting point and we will see more and more adoption of you know payments the way you have described it um in actual remittance situations um one thing that I am still very interested about and maybe also want to hear from the the co-panelists here how do you see the institutional adoption because one challenge that we always run into or that Banks primarily run into is they say well we cannot hold an asset like usdt or usdc because there's still too much counterparty risk involved for us despite all of the Audits and you know the disclosure of you know the backing with funds um if you look at the rating that an entity you know such as Circle together with you know the usdc Consortium would get is still not sufficient to transactants so ideally Banks would want to transact in central bank money which has virtually zero counterparty risks so I'd be very curious to hear what the others think about and you know how a path forward can be because at the same time I don't think we're going to see a cbdc anytime soon just like you said it's probably going to take another five or ten years until we actually have that that's very interesting and actually we are lucky here again because we have Tina thanks to his position as we be with policies and strategies what do you see recurrence adoption and what do you think will be the impact of the new legislation called Mika supposed to be out in the coming weeks for those who don't know mikai the first iteration of legislation that will regulate at least very libertarian way the the market of cryptocurrency though don't worry nft is not impacted continuing writers we want what's your takeaway Tina yeah so I think that the institutional adoption question is almost interrelated with the legislative and Regulatory Frameworks that are coming so to manage that counterparty risk I think there needs to be in addition to that some Global standards and people have been talking about that a lot lately so if we've got Mika that classifies stable coins as e-money tokens and puts in place things like Capital buffers and requirements for the quality of the assets that are held in reserve on where those assets can be held you know that that makes sense right I'm not saying necessarily that those specific ones and make it make sense but having a standard makes sense and then you have other jurisdictions around the world that need to also figure out what those are now ideally would it be great if we had no regulatory fragmentation and everybody have the same standards potentially although I think one thing we need to keep in mind with Mika especially as it relates to stable coins is this is um a draft regime on paper that has not yet been implemented and so there's a number of Provisions um specifically as it relates to non-european denominated stable coins um that you know could potentially become quite prohibitive for growth in Europe if you're limiting the global flow of value around the world and again that optionality people may choose to want to transact in US dollars for their own reason right um and so there's some there's some elements within Mika that that put some some caps and some barriers in the way around that but kind of globally speaking I think that when you look across all the jurisdictions one thing is very clear that regulators and legislators in multiple countries uh following AML the action they're going to take is to figure out how to regulate stable coins which I then think gives a number of those institutions who aren't quite sure how to bring them into their payments you know infrastructure and ecosystem provides a lot more um Clarity and excuse me Comfort that they're not going to you know receive some kind of counterparty action or you know trouble with correspondent banking Etc thank you for mentioning those challenges and the first one I faced when I had to go to mikait was about 350 Pages please have a look it's better than I get as Christie's latest book that said Sharma that's the new version the old version was 1200 Pages absolutely we know the Geeks and the point of Interest Sharma according to you what are the other challenges we have to face in the coming years before trying to make it broader usage stable coins because right now you say it's really B2B is it's very Niche at the moment although demand is is large so it's high value Niche um yeah I saw that make a reading by the way that was that was a bit of Light reading that my girlfriend looked to me and went nope and just walked away uh what are the challenges I think continuing to demystify how we validate proof of reserves and the stability of the ecosystem um 10 touched on a good point getting Regulators to have a better consensus globally is a very very tough thing but and it's utopian Vision but if we do have that in place that will provide Global Clarity and it will allow companies like it wouldn't ice and and albrex to distribute better end usage products that as Tina mentioned as well don't threaten our current business models and coexist so I think better regulatory uh transparency but more cohesion is also good but again you have varying regions maturity of varying systems so that is a massive challenge that I think I think those are the two key challenges the other is just being able to educate the ecosystem um we're all very like I guess unique in terms of when you think about it we're in payments double clicking on infrastructure double clicking on new new optionalities um this is a very Niche area and there's not enough of us so we need to be able to educate the ecosystem you know provide demystify but also get out there and do things like this and and also attract broader Industries so it's not just about educating the web 3 ecosystem but the web 2 that's coming in so giving you know people at Netflix and Spotify the treasure is there you know just giving them the basics of what we think is our bread and butter today but actually is is quite new very interesting because as we all know basically you have at least four different types of stable coins based on cryptos collateralized all of our collateralize based on Fiat based on whatever it is great do you see any other challenges it would no I think the question was answered pretty well I think it's regulation is one because if you see this Mister in the US and I won't mention his name before I get into any trouble but he's doing the approach of being a very big hammer trying to hit every nil he's seeing at this moment and and then I'd like the approach of Mika far better because it's just it's giving a framework to the industry to say okay this is what you can anticipate and this is what what will be next instead of just totally cracking down on the Innovation that's something I don't like so that's one and two it's Mass adoption very simple people need to start using it if you don't use it then yeah what's the added value and sometimes you forget that when you're working in this industry 24 7 and you truly believe in it and you really see where the space is going you go home and my father is now visiting me here in Barcelona and I'm explaining him what I'm doing he's like yeah but why I mean I've got ideal in the Netherlands and I've got a bank account and I've got my credit card I'm I'm okay so Mass adoption is also very important and in some countries in certain jurisdictions this will pick up a lot quicker because of the infrastructure that you have over there and the options you have in those countries that are very limited and let's not talk about volatility of currencies and all that all that stuff but I think those two factors are the biggest uh the biggest challenges today that's really interesting to remember that the inventor of Microsoft when he talked to his best friend Warren Buffett said you know what you should get to Microsoft computer say why would I do that even today 40 years later he still doesn't have a own one congratulations you are able to make money without it but who doesn't own a computer today so actually that's one of the big points according to you Albrecht what is the future of adoption of stable coins I think we will see more and more use cases first of all right so when we started with the trading use case um it was there was simply a big need to for trade us to be able to move money between exchanges in a very fast way and bypass the Legacy banking system and then you know others discovered that they can actually use something very similar um and so yeah I think it's going to go into payments um into remittances and eventually we're going to see institutional adoption where you know even large corporates and large financial institutions will be transacting in stable coins at the same time though I think right now when we talk about stable coins we kind of implicitly assume that it's something that is either US dollar based or other Fiat currencies and I personally believe we might come back to um the idea that Facebook had with uh with VM or Libra because Fiat currencies are also not necessarily the ultimate solution to you know having a stable um store of value and so I think there's a good chance that we might come back to a stable coin that is actually representing a basket of assets that has a very high likelihood to preserve value as we're seeing right now inflation is still very high and so the stable coins that are packed to US Dollars and and other Fiat currencies are actually not as stable as they should be because at an inflation between five to ten percent depending on where in the world you look um that's not exactly stability stability would mean that it preserves a purchasing power and not just in the short term but also in the long term and I personally believe the only way to really be able to achieve that is not by paying stable coins of Fiat currencies but rather by paying them to a basket of assets again that has a low volatility and it has a very high likelihood to preserve purchasing power there might even be some smaller stable coins that you know took up this idea already today but of course they will only become relevant if they reach a certain level of adoption um and you know I think right now usdc has a market cap of 40 50 billion if I'm not mistaken something in that ballpark even that is very small if you look at the payments volume you know that is transacted through in the world so I think once we're going to the trillions and there will be I don't know three or four dominating stable coins that no you know will not be Fiat packed but would rather be um represented by a basket of assets I think this is kind of the end game at the same time I believe it's going to take you know a few years until we actually get there I would love to hear your view on this day Anna me too um well I think I said it at the beginning I think that the asset that you're using needs to be fit for purpose and so you know am I going to sit here and say that a basket collateralized stable coin wouldn't work well no I don't know one hasn't yet but that does not mean that we won't see that happen I think for the payments use case specifically we transact in Via currencies and that's how payments are sent around the world now if that evolves and I think areas where that might evolve would be you know kind of those Niche use cases that that may grow to be bigger you know in gaming or the metaverse or you know completely digitally native goods and services um so today we're talking about using a digitally native token to pay for real world goods and services and I do think that there is a whole Market that will you know evolve that we can't see today much like we didn't know we needed an iPhone right um so I think it depends on ensuring that you're using the right asset for the right type of activity um and and I agree that you know Fiat currencies are you know a a usdc will always be worth a dollar whatever that dollar is worth and a dollar should be worth a dollar now the purchasing power for that dollar does not remain you know stable well not necessarily no but that's not the use case you're trying to solve for when you walk into a Starbucks and you buy a coffee you have X number of dollars you're willing to spend them on a coffee and and you're receiving that value in that moment so I think it just depends on the use case that you're that you're trying to solve for that's an excellent opening Sharma because we have seen the position of cbdc Central Bank digital currencies we have seen that we have an explosion of stable coins a matter of volumes what do you think will be preferred in matter of market adoption more stable coins more cbdc and what are the key use cases your four scenes are coming weeks coming weeks it changes in the coming out yeah you have eight minutes I think it just changed a second ago um good question again I think we've all touched on this as co-panelists optionality will be key use case again is driven by solving what for so is it you know for example a D5 protocol trying to solve for onboarding more users and are they creating a stable coin to de-risk um the opportunities or the or the volatility in in their ecosystem um again I think we really do have to be more fit for purpose right so if we're going to build we've got to solve four use cases versus also just putting it out there and seeing what open source has developed um I think given that we're all payments industry leaders here being able to help Channel our organizations into customer-centric issues um is going to be key but I think in terms of what's going to dominate what Eve to your question I think we're too early to tell still like we keep forgetting our industry is very nascent there is so much growth to happen um so I think we'll be probably watching it more it's a very diplomatic answer but it's like it's only Gary answer but I think we're gonna have to watch it and see but offer optionality and then as people within the industry have you know the clear taxonomy within our organizations to help drive and solve for what company a company B Merchant a merchant B is trying to trying to do I think one more thing just to add to the asset or the the basket of assets question I think for me what I would be concerned about is how then do we value what's in that basket um and so we could say okay well we're going to put some gold in it we're going to put some Fiat currencies or a mix of those feed currencies we're going to put I don't know you know energy whatever bonds I don't know something right and I think value is always subjective right so there isn't one price for gold like that moves around depending on the market on the day um everything that we attach of value to there is some level of subjectivity so if you have a Fiat back currency you have one thing that you have to make sure maintains its value and you have one thing that you need to demonstrate is actually there backing the asset if you have a basket and you have six things that seems a lot more complex to me but I'm sure someone's smarter than me could solve that I can confirm you Valentine's Day was not that long ago love as a value and their earrings have a price and I can guarantee you the gold in it as a unique price expensive so you want to end this panel with Valentine's Day in love oh yeah I love myself don't worry yourself that being said I believe we have had a lot of interesting uh interventions specifically regarding stable coins that was amazing to see it's a nascent project all together we have plenty of approaches right now over the day we have amazing companies working on the topic today so if we have questions in the assembly it is a perfect timing before Perfect Storm call that lunch please yeah sorry I haven't heard about ISO 20022 I know this is not the main topic but I've been researching a bit about it I'm not a financial advisor or anything but I'm really passionated about this technology and this proposal especially for sepa payments so I know we heard about sepa and other things so I just want to know what do you think of ISO 20022 if it's gonna go on and if it's gonna be relevant for crypto thank you non-consenting victim um I have to say I'm not an expert on it I think standardization and having the right governance parameters is what that brings and I think it is important um we just have to make sure not to over engineer it because if we do the impediment's going to slow down development of other assets and and having a payments business is is hot fairly complex I mean you've got ledgers multiple Ledges in different you know different technology formats and buckets of data going across it's very important it is very key it creates and maintains Integrity within our ecosystem as a government standard government standard but um I I actually have to dig into a bit more to see how much of an impact it's going to be for our operation teams but it's a good thing for the industry I think it's a very good answer thank you Valentine's love I think the other thing I would just say is that that standard is also designed to handle payments and essentially a closed loop infrastructure system um there are other ISO working groups that are looking at various forms of digital assets and and um identifying Global standards for them I always caution the community and regulators and lawmakers everybody to look through the lens of this you know digitally nascent asset versus trying to apply existing standards or regulatory regimes onto something that might not necessarily be a neat fit if that makes sense Tina how's it going uh Reed from Kraken um just wondering what sort of assurances do you have from governments or do you have any insurances from governments that they're not just going to come in and say Hey listen this is our money you're using our money we want this you shouldn't be doing this like like are you guys riding on anything from the government saying that this is okay what you're doing yeah so um I think if you look at Mika as a great example of governments acknowledging that stablecoins specifically have a value and they should be regulated like other types of electronic money and so today we have electronic money in Europe and post Mika we will have specifically electronic money tokens and so that is not necessarily an appointment that they think is a good thing but that they see the the value in the use case that exists um Japan uh the UK the same I think I I was I knew you were going there I was going to try and avoid that so um I think in light of what's happened over the last couple of weeks the question is being driven you know by um some of the statements that the SEC has made um and you know maybe stable coins are securities um we are very confident that usdc is not a security um it is regulated like other money Transmission in the US 48 states um and so the facts and circumstances I'm not a lawyer but that's what a lawyer would tell you are different in every case do I think that you know the SEC is going to issue stable coin companies a no action letter no I don't think that's going to happen but what I do think is and what I know for sure that the priority last year legislatively in the U.S and certainly the top of the priority list this year when we're looking at digital asset regulation broadly in the U.S is stable coins and they're being referred to and as payment stable coins so there there is this notion there's this acceptance that that's what ultimately these assets are being used for so I don't know if that gives you any comfort but I think that's the direction of travel hi um uh regarding regarding the basket of assets do you guys think we can make that economy back to usability of the resources uh used or being put on that basket saying energy houses do you think that economy can can go back into usability of uh for people if it makes any sense well I think there are several ways to approach you know a stable coin that is backed by a basket of assets and I I personally I would love to see competition in that you know because there's no blueprint so to speak how to do that and which assets should be backing that should that be houses should that be energy should it be luxury goods or whatever you know I I think one narrative that you have is that these should be assets that have a fairly low volatility in their value because otherwise you don't achieve the goal of having an actual stable coin but you know I think there should be competition around what is the best combination of assets to you know make up that basket so not energy whatever happens thank you to every person here still remaining seated and a lot of thank you you can upload the people who have been intervening regarding stable coins it was really amazing I learned a lot and please enjoy your lunch thanks guys thank you