The Next Wave of DeFi will be Use Case Driven - Kuberan Marimuthu

buddy uh thank you for being here thank you for giving us some of your attention on a very active day um I'm Alex I'm going to be moderating um I'll introduce these two lovely human beings in just a moment we're going to be talking about the next wave of defy uh use cases mainly focused on multi-chain wallets and gaming so first question I'm gonna have these two gentlemen introduce themselves your name what you do and what makes you so happy about being here today and for this week Chase awesome hello and welcome everybody my name is Chase I'm the co-founder and CEO of Pick Em [Applause] a zero commission sports betting platform that is out to change the world and revolutionize the world of sports betting um and we're doing that by empowering sports fans all around the world to play free and zero commissions all the way all the way around so that's what we're about and what makes me happy is as a sports fan a djan and a Trader I uh just love meeting other degens that share the vision for uh a bankless casino-less world where people like us are empowered uh and so more power to us it's our time to shine great yeah so so myself Cube from Cipher wallet uh we have a booth right behind the wherever we are sitting here uh so we are a non-custodial uh crypto wallet on evm and Cosmos and answer a question on like what uh makes me happy being here today like very broadly like I think we've been building this company for a little over a year and it's so energizing to like be here among like so many folks with so much belief in this future of technology of web3 right and uh like surrounding people being so optimistic in like a bad Market is so energizing right uh yeah and really happy to be right next to like become and I'm super passionate about this problem space because in like web 2 uh this is a very shady version of it and like making it uh decentralized actually makes it more transparent so yeah that's what makes me happy being here today I love it um I live here in Denver so seeing all these people from all over the world coming together about something that they care about it's just so dope um so thank you guys excited to kick it off Gonna Keep it pretty high level to start and Cuba I'm gonna start with you um 2023 is upon us I think we can all agree that defy adoption has been a little bit slower over the past year um what do you see being the most important thing that we can all be thinking about and doing um as we drive defy adoption uh this year and Beyond got it so irrespective of this year or like even it's a previous or the next year like real use cases are always going to like be driving uh user adoption right like maybe in bull market there's so much Focus around like the high part of it but the real thing that always had mattered is actually like real use cases right and when I talk about real use cases it really matters in about like what Leverage is this technology providing for the same problem that's being solved in like web 2 for example right and and of course gaming is a great example but like uh my favorite example is like for example I always keep talking about this even in Twitter spaces is like when I started like building this company there was a very popular decentralized casino on on polygon and the only reason why users flock to that product was because it was so easy to like just gamble with a wallet address so Anonymous right uh like Easy onboarding Flow but the users didn't care about blockchain right and that's a trend that they're going to continue to see where like traditional problems in real world will be solved way better in in like web3 and that is going to really Drive user adoption and for that to happen all the Builders out here like everybody in this like building is going to like have to solve so many problems in different dimensions to like really make it easy and and like a great analogy that I use is like 15 years back I wouldn't have imagined my dad sitting in a tier 2 city in India would like use online banking to like move money around like I would have said like you're you're being stupid right like that's the stage in which we are in web 3 and we're going to see that kind of stuff built like with better user experience in the next few years and it's going to happen much faster than web 2 in my opinion yeah it's interesting just to build on that I do think it's just a matter of fact that it is a lack of obvious use cases and clear benefits to the user um so really what we're trying to do is bring the web 2 experience into web3 when it comes to a gaming perspective instead of trying to convolute and and try to project all of these complex Concepts like a liquidity pool or like yield farming so what we want to do is not make it like a cockpit that you just first entered and have a dashboard of all these tickers confusing numbers and all these buttons you can click but really just simplify the user experience and and come from a player first perspective and I think that's what would change the game I mean we've got wallets and we've got gaming up here talking about defy adoption and it's uh it is human nature to be drawn to the familiar and so I I love the concept of making it really easy focusing on user experience being really mindful about how people are using it now if you guys were to put yourself in the shoes of the people who are not here right we all get it we're all here it's the reason right but you're not here you're somewhere else in Denver and you're looking for something that's going to be you know thinking high level what is it going to take to get them feeling really comfortable what is it from a wallet perspective from a gaming perspective that web3 offers that's different but still creates comfort and ease uh Chase I'll start with you yeah I think you know the the whole Advent of Defy is built on the platform of decentralized um and distributed peer-to-peer uh capabilities but for from from my belief I I think that quite honestly what we need to figure out is how we can we how can we make it fun how can we make it more engaging you know you can of course uh provide the best percentage yield in a liquidity pool but that's a race to the bottom from a business perspective and from a user perspective you just set it and forget it you're not really coming back to that so we're trying to figure out how can we keep people engaged right from a gaming perspective have the rewards and incentives have different challenges have the leaderboard up in terms of how how people are doing so that even from a digital perspective we can actually bridge the gap and make people feel closer and have that social betting experience without it feeling like a gouging predatory environment like a casino would be for for us what we want to try to do is make sure that we're putting again player first and so making it a play free environment so instead of going to the casino you're going to Disneyland where going where we're going from a commission-based business to now a service-based business so regardless of whether you win or lose and on our platform we're for sure you're going to win more and you're going to lose less but at the end of the day you're still walking away feeling like you got a service so that's the big difference yeah I've never left Las Vegas feeling good but I'm not sure if we want to get into why um Cube uh from a wallet perspective tell tell us what what you're thinking the the non-users right now really need to see really need to feel comfortable got it uh so so like users outside this room right like outside this building so I'm going to set context by zooming out a bit right uh I used to work for Amazon and like coinbase before building payment rails with banking institutions and like I have seen firsthand the inefficiencies in like the technology stack of like financial institutions the reason why I actually got super excited about this problem space was like if you look at internet altogether it actually the fundamental leverage that internet created it's it did break physical boundaries right like the moment Amazon was like the bookstore was taken online like it created an infinite leverage in the way business was replicated and like that automatically built like way better user experiences right but the underlying system has been like completely revamped but the consumer demand is always the same the way it's being serviced from the back end as like completely like be changed and like huge leverage has been created that leverage always like helps you send value back to the users right and if you compare that with like uh their three like the physical boundaries never got broken with all the problems we are talking about if you go to a casino you have to walk into like physically and we all know oh Shady online casinos are and if you talk about financial institutions like banking has never broken these like physical boundaries right like all these so-called fintech companies like stripe are all built around these inefficiencies on physical boundaries and vetri for the first time is breaking that boundary right like uni swap when I saw that for the first time 500 lines of code that serving users across 200 countries with just three Developers building it that's going to take the leverage way more exponential than what internet did we're going to see like billion dollar a trillion dollar companies with like 10 people right and the reason why I'm setting this context and answer a question on like what matters to the users the moment this High leverage happens in the underlying business that always always translates into user value because that's what capitalism has done at scale there are a lot of people who complain from like the previous generation saying like oh this new generation is so spoiled but the reality is that the new new generation has seen amazing leverage with our time with all the automation we have seen and what really the users outside this room should care about is like the way this underlying infrastructure will be re-plumbed will like create amazing user value back to them which is what something that users are not going to really notice but I but are going to like enjoy this benefit in the next few years right and and that's what internet did in the last 20 years like there is no way I could have thought about like getting into the tech industry without internet like I I when I learned writing code at the age of 10 like I still have had to walk into a library in in my city in like India and like today when I talk to the young people the fact that they are learning this from internet is like they're they're setting themselves apart by like two decades right and that's what I'm going to see uh is going to happen with like web3 with users outside this room they're not going to notice but they're going to radically leverage This and like solve bigger things in the world I love your optimism um I what I hear is is to drive connection Simplicity uh user value and fun and health right like something that's actually healthy and feel good and I really think that that's the vibe we have here um and so I want to turn it back a little bit we were just outside all those users out there who don't really use web3 now let's bring it in um from you guys perspective wallet gaming web3 in general or specific to you what are some of the Partnerships the the connections that need to be made this space has defy dexes oracles uh Cloud store storage right on-chain off chain as you guys see it and let's say someone in this audience was listening to the types of Partnerships you're looking to create how do you guys see web 3 coming together in a more deliberate way to provide that user value and ease of experience uh I'll start with you chase yeah that's an interesting question I think like you mentioned dex's are going to be imperative uh we have wallet non-custodial wallets uh we have of course oracles that will power the back end for us but one thing that I'm really interested is in the metaverse space um imagine if we can bring an entire world of sports fans together on one platform where you could be researching your bets making and taking your bets and on top of that watching and being there on the court side with LeBron while you're betting on him I feel like that would be the window into the next level of immersion that we need to see in order for us to really see that user adoption reach the masses very cool I was more of a Dwyane Wade fan but whatever I love you too both how about you I'm going to answer this question from a wallet perspective so one of the key gaps that I'm seeing the way uh maybe I'm going to say something controversial but something that's very important we acknowledge is like you always have to work backwards from the users and as a wallet it's even more important right and one of the trends I'm seeing in like the wallet is like oh you write an EIP and you go implement it right like a great example of that is a cone abstraction I'm a big fan of that but like you don't start from a cone abstraction and say you're going to go integrate into like uh the wallet the key the important data that's missing here is like you have to work with the app developers like PCM for example who are actually solving user problems which otherwise is like broken in web 2 and if you don't talk and work with them and partner with them you are missing a very important context while building the user experience because like you're actually solving a use case there but you're talking about account abstraction without even like connecting the dots right and I think it's very very important that you leverage this Partnerships always working backwards from the users only then technology really makes a difference and and I always like I'm a big fan of like how Steve Jobs talk about this like 20 years back you don't start from technology and like go try sell it to users and that matters even more in web3 you always always word backwards from the user others and in a stage where like users are in a very early stage the Partnerships with the apps is going to be super important for a wallet company like ours because you're building some stuff you want to listen to you and understand what are the capabilities that you see are lacking in wallets that you believe are really that matters to solve the problems that you think your users are facing and without that context I don't think like wallets can build a great user experience and I think that's a very important Gap in the way wallets are being being built in the industry yeah really really interesting I'm gonna play the truth and the other side I actually think the partnership of all of the people in this room um in driving both education and governance of self to creating products that truly serve users based off of Integrity based off of health and based off of a desire to grow in a really beneficial way for those out there using these products so that's my take on it I got a chance so I may as well plug it um all right I'm gonna get specific I think this is going to be my last question for both of you before we share with everybody how to find us and them and everyone else anyway um Cube at Cipher we're talking next ways of viewer adoption what is cipher looking at valuing driving that is in your view and in your team's view creating that next wave of of user adoption for D5 like ciphers Cipher specifically how are you guys doing this how are what is cipher building different what is cipher doing that's going to really create this next wave yeah thanks for asking that question so uh a very so we just launched something called onboarding SDK in in like D5 Denver I specifically want to talk about that because there is an interesting Gap in the user experience where there is so much on-chain context about an user for example if you have ever on like on-ramp through coinbase that is on-chain data to prove that you have a coinbase account and you have ever interacted with like Avalanche for example there's data to show that you're active on Avalanche and if you're a first time arbitrum user there is so much context in like user like users blockchain wallet address that you can use to improve user experience by saying hey you have a coinbase account but coinbase account does not let you on ramp into like orbitrum so you start with your coinbase account that you already have go to oblong lunch then Bridget to arbitrum to like actually start using a d-app this is a very interesting data that exists on on chain that's not being leveraged enough and Cipher wallet is really looking to like Leverage that through the onboarding SDK where the moment you connect your wallet we just come in and like generate a wizard on your the app like complete the flow before you actually start using the Dr right uh that's what we are really looking to like really go in and solve and that that'll matter even more in like a multi-chain world beautiful love that a similar question for you chase as you see it from pickham's perspective gaming sports gambling I love this idea of that platform to you unite all different kinds of sports fans in general but by way of of New Wave defy adoption what as as the leader of pickum what is it that you're pushing um to see that that happen on your on your site yeah I love that so just a quick little timeline right sports betting 1.0 was you versus the house sportsport betting 2.0 now you have the ability to become the house we got you sports betting 3.0 [ __ ] the house we don't need it so now we're building all these tools like for example a pick bot that where you can set it and bet it right a dollar uh like a dollar cost averaging bot having a bet cost averaging bot so that people we can give people the freedom to set a strategy and based off of their set parameters the bot will place their bets and just show them the winnings right so that's one thing another thing is nft BET slips so historically in the sports betting World reliability on payouts on a manual little paper that people are writing on giving it to you after the game's done not being able to cash the winnings right away super super painful so making sure that all of these bets flips are immutable in nature and completely transparent I think that is the power of the blockchain and again not making it a web 3 app but really a sports betting platform that is like skinned as a web 2 platform but powered by blockchain is what we're going for amazing uh use cases on-ramp data coming from different Wallace wallets and and providing users with new information about on and off ramp on multi-chain and nfts being in ways of true digital ownership being able to take that sell that claim that using that in an immutable way awesome I know we're getting kicked off where can people learn more Cube where can people learn more Chase tell us more where can they find you if they want more information oh right right behind oh that's easy so therefore big yellow booth and for Pick Em go to pick em dot live or hang out with us on Twitter uh pick em uh underscore live thank you guys so much for being here thank you very much [Applause] hahaha