EN | Venture Capital in Web3: Where Is the Smart Money Going in 2025? | MERGE Madrid 2025

Thank you very much. Well guys, we are going to speak about money and VCs. Really nice to have you. Thanks a lot uh to Merch for inviting me and also for allowing me to speak with this really interesting guys. It's badly that Robbie is not joining but well we are going to do our best here.

Uh we have Carlos Barkslay that is VC partnerships and at Google. uh he runs a partnership I guess and founder of glory by us entrepreneur an entrepreneur uh expert in tech and also operator with an extensive experience in product and then we have uh Luis Pastor that is founder and CEO of treatmuse group he's also the investment director at treatius BC that is the spine Spain's first web three focus VC. Now that you know who is here and who we are going to speak I would like to know a little about the role that you has at Google and any other detail that you

Yeah for sure. So first of all thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. Um so at Google I do venture capital partnerships under Google cloud which means I work with some of our tier one VC funds primarily based in New York City but they invest globally. um and generally across a lot of different sectors and I essentially help them the partners and their founders get access to the best-in-class at Google Cloud from AI to credits to access to our experts to curated events however we can help them to grow and excel um as a company and as as a venture fund.

Um I am the VC firm's go-to guy for everything that I that I can be for Google Cloud and and Google as a whole.

Okay. And Luis, please tell us a little about Retuse, please.

Sure. Uh well we are a group focused on investing in uh web 3 blockchain and digital assets and also creating um startups uh from a venture building point of view but uh regarding the the VC we mainly invest uh in this area early stage startups globally but I'll say that our focus is uh Europe and Latin America since we have been in the space for quite a long while and we can help startups in terms of connecting in uh with clients, regulators and and so on.

Okay. Now that we have probably so we have a little more time maybe we can start talking about the investment thesis because it's different from treat and also what you do in Google cloud. So maybe let's start with you Luis. What is the thesis that you are managing at the BC?

Yeah, our thesis is quite generalistic. the spectrum is quite broad within uh web3 uh and digital assets but I'll say that um uh since we have uh a blended team with different experiences in uh technology regulation and and finance uh we always look at these uh myriad of technologies um as an opportunity to invest in the infrastructure. We believe that the the infrastructure is quite fragmented and we have opportunities to to pick the the right uh future infrastructures not only I'm I'm not talking only about layers interoperability but also what is happening um uh leveraging on the infrastructure to create different products is also quite uh relevant for for us and since now we finally have institutional adoption uh coming into that world. We're going to see like loads of uh products that are going to be even incorporated within the the trai. Um also uh cyber security it's it's very relevant for us.

Uh we believe um we are still missing uh top-notch solutions to to cover the gaps in terms of deploying uh more more products in the in the market. That would be another one. And well tokenization it's always it's always there. We we think that uh we are going to see um different providers not only to tokenize but also quite a specific business opportunities. Uh there are few that we have already invested in and I would say that uh those are in a nutshell the the main topics of oral thesis.

Carlos, what about you? I mean so obviously I don't work for the like the investing side of the business so I don't have necessarily a thesis. I mean I can say that um you know the visas I work with invest across the spectrum of web 3. And I should probably also mentioned that before Google I've been for about a year and a half. I worked at a web three startup myself that was connecting traditional finance to uh to web 3, right?

Um and kind of building like those those railroad tracks. And I mean, I think that to kind of to this point, there's a lot more maturity in the market than there were like four or five years ago when I was working in it full-time. And I think that the market is really driven, in my personal opinion, by by retail consumer interest. And so I think that when we kind of see retail users kind of get more into it and talk about it more, um there'll be a lot more use case, a lot more investment from the general funders, not just web 3 investment firms, but general funds kind of going towards empowering um connecting both enterprises as well as consumers, retail consumers to web 3. It's interesting that you said that you've been seeing a change in terms of maturity and maybe we can dive a little into it because uh we were just discussing like we see different uh trends and different products that were interesting for the market and maybe we can go into it like uh how do you see the current state of web three innovation globally the trends that are there and on.

Well, I kind of look back at it historically. I mean, for me, I've been in the crypto whippy space since like 2015. Um, so I kind of like saw like two or three major hype cycles, right? The first hype cycle was in 2017 when Bitcoin became very popular and it was in rap songs and it was in in the news and that's when like I started well I wasn't I did start buying it then but a lot of us did and so we kind of became educated about it. I feel like that was like layer one.

It's like what is Bitcoin? What's Ethereum? And people are like gaining interest in it, right? It died down and so did the industry. The price went down.

It happened again in 2020 and 2021. The price went back up. It's back in the news again. And I think in that second cycle, what we saw was like the education around NFTTS come in, right? So there was a basic kind of education and awareness about Bitcoin, Ethereum, and like maybe like the the major coins.

With round two came NFTTS and maybe um altcoins education around that. We're now in 2025, entering 2026. And I'm like, hey, like, what's the next thing that the common consumer like me is going to adopt that's going to drive the industry forward? And I think there's a a big question around that. Um, I hope I kind of hope that it's um, you know, um, RWAs, right?

I think that the the coming consumer can kind of understand that like putting my money into an asset that I can't maybe own as a whole, but I can own a part of, and that's going to grow in value over time. Um, but I know others have opinions about what else it could be, but I'm hoping and I think it could be RWAS.

Okay. And Luis, uh, same uh, question, but let's, uh, see like projects or companies or ideas that you've been pitched about because you said that there's few that you already took in but many ideas happening around. So, how's globally this thing moving? Yeah, I've been also around for quite a while uh in the space like 12 years and I've seen the waves that Carlos was mentioning. Um but I think that uh now the difference and we have been discussing about this is uh regarding institutional adoption and and the regulators embracing uh the technology and finally regulating over this and that's uh good for to Carlos's point uh AWA's tokenization that that's a trend for sure.

We're going to expect many more assets tokenized uh living in blockchains and transacted in blockchains. That's that's another um another trend that I believe in. We have invested in a in a company that for instance tokenize guarantees to be a part of the uh micro credits uh flows. So it means that at some point if a lender it's uh willing to um grant a micro credit to anme for instance. So they would need uh a company backing them with these guarantees and if they are tokenized and governed by smart contracts you can create this sort of um efficiency u because of the automation of the of the claims and at the same time uh the behind the the guarantees it could be cash but it could be gold or it could be grain or it could be other things and in markets like uh Latin America Africa or even Asia.

I believe that this would be a trend to be to be growing. And regarding the trends, everyone is talking I was discussing this morning with uh a few fellow panelists uh about this. Everyone is talking about stable coins. We are in uh a stable coin summer. Uh everyone is uh thinking that stable coins are going to change a lot of things.

uh originally they were created to use as a coverage within DeFi and they are used on a daily basis in different countries. Um enterprises are using that for international trade and it I believe it's a it's a growing trend. Uh I've seen startups that they are paying salaries now with the stable coins and with those stable coins you can generate some yield. So that's uh also quite quite interesting for the future I believe. Just to add a little into this and probably in the audience you are familiar with this.

NASDAQ recently asked the SEC that is the regulator of securities in the states that they want to actually tokenize their stuff like all the products and so on. And this is something that we can uh see gaining in momentum maybe uh the Trump administration starting uh changing the landscape in terms of regulation and so on. it's uh giving more credibility to this differentis of of or this position h regarding tokenization and so on because I remember in I started in 2017 maybe not that as early as you but it was uh blockchain the word was blockchain not web three now you said blockchain and you are a boomer you know it's like

it's web three man and you you see the maturity of the of the market and it's really interesting to see that this a different iteration of the same I would say that goal that is trying to make this more available more liquid and yeah to connect different economies in different places to a global landscape that through tokenization maybe could be done yeah Carlo please

this is kind of a question slash a statement and we didn't talk about this before but I kind of think that web 3 is in need for like a branding upgrade. And by that I mean like I know that web 3 is booming. Like when my dad talks to me about it like if my dad calls me and he's talking about Bitcoin, okay, Bitcoin is up right now. If he calls me and he talks about like this NFT, this NFT is the one to buy because it reached my dad and I I don't I don't know. My dad hasn't talked about stable coins to me, right?

he hasn't talked about I don't think he's going to ever come to me and say hey I have a RWA tokenization thing like and but I think that like we have to uh there has to be a shift in how we even speak about it to like to the comic consumer like like myself I I consider myself a comic consumer and I think about it in like terms of like gaming right like Xbox PlayStation 5 there's probably a very technical term for what those game systems are called like gaming digital console no one says that Because maybe when it first came out in like the 80s or 70s, like it sounded like so foreign and people just didn't want to have it in their house, maybe it sounded crazy, but eventually we kind of like branded it to kind of be palatable. Does it make sense? Like is is is there like space for branding and web to be kind of like evolved to the comic consumer?

I think yes. Uh but it all it's also something regarding necessity because I'm assuming that your father is in the states.

Yeah. And I'm from Venezuela and stable coins are ubiquous in Venezuela and it's because uh Venezuelans are trying to leave the bolar behind. It's our local currency and there they need or they want dollars and these stable coins offer a dollar vehicle that it's important and it's uh not only important but also critical for them to actually survive the destruction of the local currency. And then you have Europe uh trying to build the digital euro that it's some kind of stable coin but still with more intervation of the states or the European bank. So yes in a part this branding and also good marketing because if if if it reach at our pups it you are doing a good job in terms of marketing but then it's also necessity if you don't really need this technology it will be like bunch of guys just talking about stuff that nobody cares about.

But then yeah there's a important potential to reach more adoption through good branding good narratives and yeah what what what is your thought in this specific regarding marketing and so on?

No I see I mean both of the points are are valid depends where depending where you are. I mean uh thinking from a European mind uh we have been trying to regulate it to avoid um fraud and at some point protect uh consumers and investors into this but at the same time trying to generate um comfortable framework uh regulator framework to for instance um issuing tokens on depth uh on equity and so on that that that's something that I I understand that is valuable But I I'll say that uh besides uh buzzwords uh web three, I don't know if it's a buzz word or not, I really believe that this is a financial movement that is going to change the financial world forever. It's going to become hybrid. That's for sure. And at the second time, um we are going to see different sectors embracing this technology for many other use cases.

at the beginning 15 years ago. So I remember a lot of hype around all of this blockchain is going to change everything. Um it's not going to change anything at all. Uh we'll see. But I really believe that now we are in a position that uh the technology is going to be used and you don't really need to know what is behind the scenes.

As a consumer you're going to use it. It's going to be beneficial. Uh it's going to bring you different uh global interactions. I always give an example for gamers. Uh uh my nephew is a gamer.

He uses uh he plays uh League of Legends.

Okay.

And he said, "I hate crypto, man. Uh it's everywhere. Everyone is talking about crypto." But I told him that uh maybe in the future if you have a technology where you are able to exchange your skins with other players, with other video games, like a marketplace, and that is driven by web, free, blockchain, whatever. I said, "Well, that that's nice.

That's interesting. So I think that's where that's where we are heading to.

Okay. Maybe we can go a little back to allocating and investment investment and so on. Erh do you think that it's there's a cooling phenomenon happening in people actually investing in these kind of projects or is starting to boom because obviously when you have uh good prices in Bitcoin or Ether or whatever everybody's talking it's in the news and so on but I'm I'm I don't know I want to have your input regarding if it's booming in terms terms of capital allocation or what are your thoughts?

Uh I think booming like right now I wouldn't use the word booming. I should probably also mention that the views I express are mine independently not not those of Google. Um forgot to say that at the beginning but I think that it's going to I think I think we're I think we're close again. Uh I was actually watching some startups present here yesterday for the pitch competition and there was there was a startup that presented on an advising kind of AI app that kind of advises users on you know what to invest in and kind of um assess like your risk profile and kind of gives you like an investment track to go on like with your capital to invest in web 3 and in crypto. And I think that that's something that's probably going to like that's a great use case because when uh things are booming again like the average consumer wants to put their money in.

And I think that a lot of times the average consumer feels like it's too late for Bitcoin, right? By the time that we reach 200k per Bitcoin, they're going to feel like, "Oh, I'm I'm I'm out of the race." Um, so it's like what are the what are the new opportunities again with in Web3 I couldn't invest in. And I think, you know, an idea like that is a great use case is going to that we're probably going to see kind of come about um over these like next couple of like months and years.

And what about you? Well, we had a crash within the market uh 2022 and obviously at the same time within VC it was uh the whole VC world realized that this um exponential growth uh burning cash it was a a model difficult to sustain uh in the long term and that has created something interesting for us. So at some point the entrepreneurs that are here in the space are here not because of the hype are here because they want to build something. They are real builders. They have value to add and they are more mature.

Uh probably they are second time or even third time founders. That's what we are really looking at. So for us the market uh being uh u cool down it's it's quite good because like we are going to enter uh and we're not back we're going to back up uh mature entrepreneurs uh fair valuations and companies that they have a a real value proposition.

I just want to piggy back off of what he just said because he invests in fintech and in crypto in web 3. I work with a lot of funds that invest on a general basis, right? Including web 3. And I know they were not or it's my perspective that we're not booming right now because they're not really talking about it, right? I think when you see the the generalist investors kind of going back to web three and back to crypto, that's how I know that it's kind of like back in back in motion and back in a cycle.

But right now with me seeing like I have investors that invest in fintech broadly, but is web 3 or crypto a major part of of their investment strategy right now or their investment focus? I I can't say so. And so like I think to his point like I've been kind of peeking back again into web three these past like few months and few weeks and um I've been seeing the project that I've been working kind of like in in the like behind the scenes of people kind of been quiet and like you know I'm starting to put my money back in. And it's like okay like there are folks who believe in this who are loyal to this who are going to really I think benefit from this like next you know kind of hype cycle.

Okay. Uh we have six minutes and I want to touch two different topics. Regulation and then uh the recipe to ask for money. Maybe we can start with regulation. Uh it's important obviously uh it's key for more adoption and for projects to be successful.

So that's my thought. I don't know if you share the same view. What are your thoughts regarding regulation?

For me, as I mentioned before, it's super relevant. Uh that's something that we when we are on a due diligence process with the startups, we we double check with them. We even have uh in-house uh legal experts to validate the business model. But from the regulatory point of view, it's a global technology, but the company is based uh in a certain place and it's going to uh probably offer services or the product to clients that it could be in a particular location and well we have to observe the regulations that if they are in favor or not. Europe probably is ahead of that uh on those terms but we know that there are uh countries like u El Salvador, Singapore, Hong Kong uh even Brazil that they have these uh positive regulations even the US now uh finally I'll say but um yeah it's it's super relevant in terms of at least for us to make um investment decision.

Yeah, I mean I I I generally agree. Um I think regulation is overall going to a positive especially in the states when I was working you know in web 3 um with the startup. That's what we were kind of waiting on or betting on. It's like what is this regulation going to be and kind of building kind of towards that future state. And I think that that's possibly a reason why I haven't been seeing as much conversation around web 3 these past couple years is because it wasn't in place.

And I think now that it is like investors going to look for companies to his point that are compliant with regulations um that are financially you know stable that you know kind of like fit into like a a group that make sense and like actual um have a great you know business like use case you know before I feel like if you had a white paper probably raise money from DC and get money. Now we're in a much more m mature place than we were like four or five years ago. So you got to be, you know, kind of adhere to those regulations and it gives everyone kind of just like a a base level of understanding of like, okay, what are we all looking for? What are we all doing? And that's that's that's a good thing.

Okay. And we can close then well asking for the magic recipe. Maybe there are some entrepreneurs here or projects that are looking for money. What would you recommend them to reach people that maybe are in the middle between funds and big allocation or that are looking to allocate money? What what would you recommend them?

I mean I'll start first. I mean obviously I work at Google so I'll say like if you're a founder you're venture back please come and leverage Google cloud. We have like credits that are available to founders across the globe. um if you are in the an AI company up up to 350K across two years in cloud credits um access to our AI experts. We also have a crypto community within Google and Google cloud that we can you know tap founders into.

Um and I'll say just like from my perspective being someone who's operated at startups for 10 years and I have worked with a myriad of like founders and investors. Uh if you're raising capital, uh be strategic about who you raise from, right? And understand who are the VCs that invest in the things that you care about. Um if you are a web three founder, I would target the web three and the fintech investors first and understand what their investment thesis is and what size checks they write and like what rounds they invest in. Um and just and just look at their portfolio to make sure that you are using your time as strategically as possible.

You know, I think that kind of like what is it? Spray and prey model isn't the best way when you're raising when you're a founder. You have a limited amount of time. You got to grow a team. You got to make money.

You gota you got to raise money. Yeah. Build the company. Um so save time, be strategic, be focused, narrow in on on your on your on your investors. Um like like this guy right here.

We well basically we we look at couple of things that are very important uh to us the team. I mean uh who are the people involved on that if they have worked together before if they know what they're going to build and how they have checked that there's a market uh they can you know uh send the proposal over commercialize it and so on and and that's something that um is not that obvious. So you need to maybe create a pilot a proof of concept uh go out there try to receive some uh willingness to pay which is not that that easy sometimes and for us that's that's enough for you know early stage proceed till I say that's where we invest but you you need to look at that because like sometimes what we find is entrepreneurs that are super enthusiastic about ideas which is great but have you tried try to build it? Have you tried to see if there is a market and either consumers or businesses willing to pay for that? And if you get that um insight that information that that's super valuable but you have to invest obviously and you have to sacrifice a lot of things to be an entrepreneur but I would say that that's uh my recommendation to them.

Okay. And in 50 seconds 25 for each what is the next thing? what are we what should we are looking into?

Well, I'll say that very quickly that uh this technology moving into other sectors. Uh we have been talking for years around digital identity. We have been talking for years about this embracing um content producing uh websites and so on. And I think that that that's going to come up in the next two three four years because a lot of people are building on this uh Sony for instance with its own blockchain. I've heard about different uh super global music companies working on this.

So I think that that's going to come like sooner than later.

I mean I agree. I mean like I said at the beginning of the talk, I hope that RWA is the next thing. I think it's funny. And I was I was on a tour before this and the tour guy says she can't afford um I guess a house here in the city. And again, I think that's probably something that's happening globally.

I know it is in the states of my generation feel like we can't own the things that our parents did. And so um the ability to kind of tokenize like those assets and for us to invest into them, our generation, their generation is very appealing to me, I think, in my community. And uh I hope that that can be a huge use case going forward.

For me is still Bitcoin. Guys, thank you very much for your time. Thank you so much.