White House Playbook: Making the U.S. the Crypto Capital with Harry Jung & Patrick Witt at KBW2025

All right. Good afternoon everyone. We're going to be live with Harry and Patrick over in DC. Harry and Patrick, can you hear me okay? That's loud and clear.

Awesome. We were worried that we were not going to be able to fix the mic situation for a second, but super glad we were able to sort it out. And first of all, really appreciate everyone, both the audience and Harry and Patrick tuning in this moment. We're supposed to have them in person this week, but as you know, there's a important initiative going on in DC with market structure bill and you know, as you know, there's a big push around it. They were not able to make it to Seoul, so Korean barbecue will be next time, not this week.

Appreciate you tuning in as I know late over there, but just wanted to give you a quick intro. Um Um Just wanted to wanted you guys get to get familiar with our audience. Obviously, we we know you as a White House counsels, but behind the logo, there are two gentlemen who got to that that specific position through unique and different journeys. Maybe we can start with you, Patrick. How you got there?

I know we are at the most exciting time with the Trump administration with our industry being really positive. You are at the front seat. What kind of journey led you to your position and happy to hear from you next, Harry, as well. Yeah, so my my journey to this current position small speech during the transition assessments. So, tap.

Came this office. Obviously, with David being named the White House AI crypto czar. We paired up with him to create the structure and figure out how to get it in place and and kind of using the model that Jared Kushner had undertaken with his office of American innovation during the Trump 45 administration. So, we had to go back then and obviously you know as the White House started to build out in the early days and Bo took over initially started over at the Pentagon at the Department of Defense now Department of Corp and was dual headed Department over to this office since April as Bo's deputy. So, when he stepped out I was grateful to step in for the vote of confidence from David and I was able to do so in large part thanks to Harry and and Nick in our office who were here and able to provide for a seamless transition.

So, Harry. Well, I appreciate it and thank you again for the uh for the for the invite and the opportunity to talk. So, yeah that's a little bit how I got here. You know, I've been a government for about 2 years or so prior to coming to the White House crypto council. I was the acting chief of staff at the CFTC and the crypto lead for the agency and then that was where I actually got to know and meet Bo and the rest of the president's working group.

You know, through the executive order that the president and the US issued earlier in the year, you know, we were able to you know, come together as you know, as a group as part of the president's working group to work on a couple initiatives. Through that experience I was able to obviously you know, meet Bo and have the opportunity to serve in the White House uh with you know, David Sacks and then Bo our our former colleague and now I have the great opportunity to work with Patrick on you know, many of the things that we have things to do and and obviously we're at it right now and you know, hope to one day get there in person but we're lucky to do this virtually. Awesome. Thank you for the introduction and then one fun fact both Patrick Uh, Patrick and Harry played football college football as well, and so did Bo. So, it looks like everyone who can work there has to play football or something.

And then, I'm moving on to the next question. Um So just I think everyone's curious here. How is it working with David Sacks and also uh President Trump? I feel like uh the pace that your team has been moving is uh uh on par with any startup that's out there and things are moving very quickly in DC. Uh how is the day-to-day working uh with them like?

What's your day-to-day look like? Uh and I think the audience is really curious how things move over there. Look, none of this would be possible without the leadership of President Trump and David Sacks. It's an incredible uh team that we have at the top that have uh supported this industry and given us a a wide latitude to pursue pro-crypto policies. Um you know, we feel like uh there was a tremendous opportunity.

It was kind of a a crown lying in the gutter uh waiting for us to to come pick it up with uh being able to champion this industry and the innovation that it represents. Uh day-to-day our our jobs are, you know, every day is an adventure. I say the only thing that's consistent about our days is that they start early and they end late as evidenced by tonight, you know, getting close to midnight and we're still uh here in the office. But uh it's a lot of engagement with industry uh right now with the market structure bill being considered on the hill. We're regularly meeting with senators, with their staffs, uh talking to industry as various uh uh measures uh provisions within that bill get debated, get edited.

Um so, it it's an exciting time, but uh our hands are full, our plate is full. Uh we love the work, but uh there is plenty of it to go around. Awesome. Uh moving more into more of policy-focused questions. There has been a lot of progress since uh the inauguration.

So, the Ginae Act has passed. It's signed by the president. And then we have the Clarity Act, which has passed the house and is now in the Senate. And these have set the stage for regulatory change, more proactive regulation. How do you think they have shaped the market so far?

And what still needs to happen to get the market structure bill across the finish line? The Geniuses, you already saw some of the actions, you know, that flowed directly from that with Tether announcing their US operations. We've seen a number of other partnerships and I think we're going to see many more in the weeks to come. So, we're excited about the implementation that Treasury is doing there. That bill throws a lot at them in a short amount of time.

If anyone's been involved in the the reg writing process, it takes a lot of work and the timelines in there are quite ambitious. So, you know, trying to serve resources to them to get those written in a way that is consistent and coherent. With market structure, as I mentioned, you know, we're in the throws of it right now. So, we're meeting every day, multiple times a day on the phones with senators, with lobbying groups, you know, that represent different parts of, you know, TradFi and crypto. And there's there's so many different facets to this bill.

It's very complex, but I I'm very confident. I say, you know, I feel better with each passing day about the odds of us getting this passed and that the bill is going to be a major success. So, we're excited about it and we're we're sad that we can't be there in Korea with you. Looking forward to the trip. I I spent three months in Korea living near Gimpo Airport when I was consulting with McKinsey.

So, very familiar with Seoul and very sad to miss this trip. But I don't know if Harry you have anything else to add on that one. Yeah, and and just to build off of Patrick's point on regarding Geniuses. I mean, you know, if you sort of look at where we started with genius, you know, we sort of started from, you know, a blank sheet of paper and to get to the president's desk in, you know, about 6-7 months, I mean, that is unprecedented. You know, we want to obviously the US, you know, to become the crypto capital of the world, you know, the vision that the president had to do so, you know, it's all sort of came from a top-down approach where it resonated across all agencies to and and the hill to get this done.

So, you know, I trust that as Patrick mentioned, you know, there's we're right now at the implementation phase of things. Um, Treasury is hard at work and, you know, as as Patrick also noted on market structure, um, you know, that is a priority number one and the North Star that's driving us. And even between that, genius and all that market structure going on, we we also have to report, right? I mean, I'll have it right here. I mean, the report itself is obviously online as well, but, you know, that is the ultimate, you know, sort of snapshot of the entire digital asset ecosystem that, you know, we have we want as sort of a framework for the US to become the crypto capital of the world.

Um, and, you know, there's actually there's about a hundred plus recommendations in there and we are also continuously meeting as a working group, you know, every every other day or so to get that also implemented and, you know, get those wins um, to get us that much closer to become the crypto capital of the world. It's a quick follow-up question on the market structure structure bill. Is there a specific timeline you guys are aiming for and working with to get that finalized? You know, we tell our our friends on Capitol Hill, the president wants it on his desk as soon as possible. Um, so, there's there's procedure, there's rules and, you know, I'm not native to Capitol Hill.

I haven't served in those chambers, but every day I learn some new arcane rule that exists there. So, we're we're managing through that. We have great partners, Chairman Scott, Chairman Boozman in the Senate, and and those in the House that did the great work getting clarity passed. Now, the Senate's working off of that. So, um, we're we're partnering with them to make sure that we're unblocking what we can, that we're, you know, serving as a referee when there's kind of a an impasse, you know, weighing in where necessary, but we're respecting the process.

We're we're optimistic that we're going to get it done before the end of the year, and and obviously we don't want to loiter, and we want to get it done as as soon as possible. Awesome. I'm looking We're looking forward to hearing good news from the Hill soon. And then we're here in Korea where the markets have been relatively open to different entrepreneurs, and it's a thriving market. Obviously, US has been taking lead earlier this year.

Our prior administration, as most people know, were not too friendly to the industry, and that pushed a lot of people out, talent, capital, everything out of the US. I know you guys are working on these bills, different initiatives. What needs to change to ensure crypto company who offshored from the US return to the US uh like especially guaranteeing access to financial rails and capital markets. So, I think it starts from a regulatory environment that is set, and there's a path forward for business to flourish, specifically crypto business. So, where do we hide and how do we get there?

So, obviously we have genius, right? That's that's step one. We need market structure to be done to have the market structure for the for the markets itself. And with that framework, you need regulatory clarity, and and you see the word clarity you know, used tremendously um especially, you know, the last couple months, but that is in fact the truth, right? You need clarity from a regulatory perspective to bring an environment right to the US that allows companies to come back, right?

As you mentioned, Francis, you know, com- companies didn't have a friendly environment to operate in the US, especially in the crypto arena. And one of the big things that, you know, we have to do is build that framework, the regulatory environment, so so folks can come back on shore to the US. You know, there are other things that we are also looking at, you know, whether it's sort of the tax incentives and things like that. That's critically important for folks to come back to all come back home. Yeah.

Um and these are the you know, the you know, the uh brilliant companies, the the brilliant developers and so forth. So, you know, first step is uh getting getting the frameworks done and uh we will do that. And I would say also um building off of what Harry said, um we're working on the legislation right now, the regs that follow on from genius, but the US is open for business. We are uh moving out full speed ahead on uh crypto. We're trying to bring as many of these companies back on shore that were driven offshore by previous uh moves that uh the our preceding regime uh put in place.

So, uh you know, Chair Pham uh Acting Chair Pham we just had on a moment ago uh Chairman Atkins at the SEC. They're doing incredible work right now to move out on what they can just from uh rulemaking, guidance. Uh so, they're they're not waiting on legislation. Uh they're moving out right now and obviously we want to have the legislation follow behind that to codify into law uh the great work that they're doing. But um right now uh is is great time to be uh you know, innovating and bringing your uh your crypto company back to the United States.

As compa- companies return to the US, what do you think is the best way for these firms effectively engage with people like you in Washington, whether it's representatives, lawmakers, regulators? Uh I I've seen uh so many companies uh spending more time in Washington, D.C. and uh encouraging more conversation and getting more dialogues going. How would you advise them to enter D.

C. and then uh interface with people like you guys? I think uh when we meet with folks in industry, uh they will tell you it is night and day difference between the previous administration and the Trump administration. We are eager to sit down with them, hear about what they're building, hear about the issues that they're facing, and figuring out ways that we can help them. We want to be not only the crypto capital of the world, we want to be the innovation capital of the world as the United States has been for for a century, really, plus.

So, you know, when we sit down with them, it's it's how can we help you? What issues are you facing? You know, because the prosperity that they bring to the United States benefits our citizens, it benefits our economy, and ultimately it benefits the world. So, you know, we are we are one phone call away, one email away. There's great, you know, industry groups.

So, engage with them, and and we are regularly in touch with them. We'd love to to meet and talk with you. But, Harry, I don't know if you have any other thoughts on that. Yeah, and to just bounce off what Patrick said, you know, the the engagement with the government is is critical, especially from the private sector. As we know, innovation happens much faster in the private sector, right?

So, for us as government officials to make good policy decisions, you know, when we meet with these innovators, when we meet with these companies, you know, that gives us a better color of what's happening at real time for us to make those policy decisions. And, you know, you know, we meet we have companies come from all different sectors of the crypto industry and the ecosystem. So, you know, and and I I I have to say, you know, Patrick does a tremendous job as to quarterback you know, these different use cases to the appropriate regulators, to people in government. You know, I think you know, I think Patrick knows a little thing about being a great quarterback. So, you know, I think that's a big testament to what he brings to the council.

And zooming out for from crypto itself, I know it's a key priority for the president and the current administration. How do you see the crypto piece fitting into the broader strategy for United States to keep increasing US dollar dominance, global financial dominance? As you know, like for example, stable coins, the usage is widely um adopted throughout Africa, for example, Latin America. How do we bring that to the US and just have a strong uh competitive edge for global uh financial sector in general? The the greatest strength of the United States, if not the greatest strength, is is the how deep and liquid our capital markets are.

Uh this is the best place that, you know, you can find on the planet uh to to form a company, to raise capital, to innovate. Uh we have an amazing legal system that has stood the test of time and is constantly, you know, keeping pace with uh changing world. So, uh we would be remiss if we were not leading on this issue. We are entering the new phase of the financial system. This is a step change uh in into the future, and we need to be there at the table providing that leadership and combining with the other structural advantages that the United States uh benefits from.

So, uh whether that's dollar dominance through, you know, stable coin adoption, um or the regulatory framework that hopefully will be a guide to uh other jurisdictions around the world. I think uh the United States is is eager to continue to lead in this space, and I think uh our leadership can can provide uh great clarity to not only our jurisdiction here and and innovators here, but also around the world. Got it. Um looking 3 years ahead, I know we're only less than a year into current admin, what would be a successful US regulatory reboot for our industry look like uh from your your from the White House perspective? And do you think it would take more than 3 years?

Uh what kind of cadence and speed are you thinking? I think uh with genius, as we talked about, there's a lot of the making that follows along that's directed in the bill itself. Market structure will be no different. And anyone that's been through this process knows that it takes, you know, sometimes a couple of years to get this done. So, President wants it done as soon as possible.

He certainly wants it done during his term. So, just working back from, you know, 2028, we got to get the work and we got to get this bill passed as soon as possible, get it to his desk so that the folks at the the CFTC and the SEC and and other relevant agencies can get to work and take the pen. And industry will need to continue to engage throughout that process to make sure that the intent of the bill is realized with those with those rule makings. You know, other things I would say, you know, the Strategic Petroleum Reserve that President created when he signed into law his executive order, we are working to, you know, establish that, to codify it, to grow it. And, you know, that's that's something that's also very top of mind for us.

There's a number of tax provisions that we're also eager to provide guidance on through the IRS, Treasury, and hopefully also codify those into law. You know, putting an end to regulation by enforcement, we've worked with the DOJ to issue a number of updated guidances, memos that signal to, you know, developers, software developers, we're not going to prosecute you for for creating technology. You know, those days are over and we want you to build here. We want you to build in security and safety and we want you to innovate in the United States. And and you can't do that unless you have that clear safety and security of regulatory framework that protects the good work that you're doing.

So, we've we've got our plate full. I'm sure I'm leaving a number of other things off, but every day we wake up and we we ask ourselves, how can we advance the ball down the field? We're getting close to time. I I one last question would be, as you know, we wish everything changed on the same like same track, everything stays positive. But, is there a scenario where industry should worry about the potential, let's say, administration changes, operation Chokepoint 3.

0, 4.0? Are there specific guardrails you guys are putting in now to prevent that so we don't have to worry about it again? As you know, the working group will be continuously meeting and in in this actually in this very room, the White House, we meet multiple times a week and this is across the SEC, CFTC, Commerce, and Treasury. So, you know, we this is really truly showing a hey, what one government approach, right?

We're all united, we're all collaborating because, you know, this is not the prior admin, this is the Trump administration. And you know, we've we've you've seen the the the fruits of the labor that, you know, we're trying to progress down already to not have that environment as the prior administration has had. I'll tell you also, we're at an inflection point right now where if we get this right and we allow the crypto industry to flourish and to take hold in the United States, there's going to be no turning back the clock. I think the genie will be out of the bottle and it's going to be impossible to put it back in. So, what we're doing right now is so critical because it really is that inflection point where once it takes root here in the United States, I think the the Biden administration, the Gensler regime at the SEC, they made a giant mistake.

They set the United States back a number of years. We're making up for lost time right now and I believe that once we turn this corner, we're going to be smooth sailing ahead. Awesome. I we're closing we're closing time. I just want to say thank you to Patrick and Harry for tuning in very late over there in DC.

And uh we can have you in person next year. Um I appreciate all the work you do for the industry and looking forward to continuing the conversation soon. And I'll end the session now. And thank you so much everyone for tuning in from DC and also attending uh early morning this today. Thank you for having us.

Yeah.