Governance Strategy for Maximum Fork Readiness by Anja Blaj, Marina Markezic (Devcon5)

[Applause] nice to meet y'all good morning for summer yesterday party so we're gonna start smoothing the workshop first we're going to have a very quick presentation of Cummings gonna go down and but it'll help ease that we're getting to discussing what the foots are although we want to open as many questions as possible so that we are forming groups of people use and then addressing the four topics and opening up as many questions and learning as much as possible from all of us I think that this is quite a big first group so we all have different types of colleges very I said my name is Anya on a bike I know where I am actually focus on being nationalized facelock but more or less I'm working in a black suit space club so very trying to [Music] she's gonna [ __ ] about herself by results are good there be like you don't hurt me help today I'm we're actually in a finding but the probably going to be without might be done luck finding weather right super sick soon we might be and what are the legal obstacles on our way to hi my name is buddy and I'm very happy to see you all here are very a lot of human interfaces so we are also happy happy facilitators with a stellar experienced facilitators max from peacock and Felipe from their site so we are also part of peacock specially Anja and she is a founding member of the CO and we learned a lot from this community which is actually organizing events and working on a strategy for governance for different options maybe you can also say research is not from political science to technology try to assign a cross-functional against personal people together to move this context issues we have been seeing a lot of different presentations and panels and I I heard when there were questions really tough questions us they say it depends on the governance we are going to adopt so every time we're talking about governance but we don't know what this is actually and this is also the idea of our workshop so we would like we were thinking okay what would we like to discuss and if we think about governance forking is the extreme event that could happen actually and then we were asking how much do we know what works who is talking about work squeezed preparing plans for the readiness workforce this was our actually stunned an additional idea so because we said we have a really short presentation and then we're going to work in groups after that also the groups are going to have a presentation about the airport so the methods we were thinking of having methods where you might be used to example different types of compositions onions and more about this yes I don't know the description of the workshop firstly there was a reason more like more and I second court it's a legal thing you got on a competition and he presented an argument to propose of the parties in order to convince the judges and what I'd like about it so much that the judges are usually the real judges so it's not an imaginary case it's actually the real law that we use and the real judges are informative so whatever the cases they're actually getting the knowledge of how case in the future might be solved using the laws that we have and right now we are actually we might be imagining an agent or a fourth but what we have is fear so whatever scenario we're going to have whomever we're going to speak to you might actually use somewhere in the future and what is really important in the Bollywood courts is the argumentation so if we're taking and is that we're saying and we want to do that but this is the argument why we need to do that why this is important and we really like to work on that in in the groups so we're not really gonna go having a case in front of us though we don't usually pack up little ones no comparison better credit variation but we only have to re subbu from that idea and which is going to important person people and having special things were useful but see using the argumentation and they're not any more presentation maybe tend to get other information so the issue is the form whether if whatever works when are they happening how are we reacting to it who are the stakeholders in this fork ecosystem so we can tell you little bit about the history think about new types of works so you might not believe me just stop forks and how it works it actually might be relevant you think about the reasons for works and I create new types of consumer if that something works based on those reasons we are the issues so the history of works probably everyone here the dogwood which was finished about and but you go through history or wealth works you see that there's more reasons and the buggy's one of the reasons so the but actually functional state website in order to actually saw that work very kindly the whole community committee good defense mechanism so we are many congregations work so that we prevent the hacking so that provides the malicious abusive the code but all the works are not to be necessary basis the goodness on the court on a code might as well be just an upgrade and if these are the factors that vary [Music] so we are talking here about governance we don't want to go into technical details but we everybody for at least it's really easy to copy paste the code but we would like to think about the governance so if we're doing for example for example a spin-off of a coin what what governance is included here are we talking to the community how are we communicating with the community also the opening of DEFCON we were hearing about business in you and they were also saying we need to focus on communication to our stakeholders so exchanges different other organizations this is like a plan for the next year's for our blockchain so how are we communicating that internally and also externally to to the whole community okay so this is something that NATO came up with or political sign readiness action plan is pretty much the plans that governments are having when the Sheikh Osama so when there is a for example a threat or any price on the interstates the NATO and all international communities are actually having to threaten explains how they're going to be a combat right and what what is happening we first if you saw through your community thinking if it's not really just an upgrade and we have to be ready as much as possible so that kind of has a beat America has been our leader and the fancy procedures and according to called by the tribes that actually creates the station that creates the reaction platform they actually have all the right in such a palace prepared so that people know how to react appropriately and as fast as possible and be as efficient as possible so next night we actually have weights should be all about to have as possible sweet never-ending responses that we can Queen and then we have a property terrorism so for that to happen we actually first need to discuss what magic works would have what in the East we are addressing one of the obstacles easy actually goods to port or not obvious something that but yeah this is just a picture in presents that we want to collaborating kings and have a discussion right so learning to have to pursue the interesting platform to groups and annulation discuss all these topics maybe we can have been merged two other groups together so we have four of them when he's faculty for motivation for first whatever about to work and then we have for communication which is pretty much relevant for the government community and technical aspects so we see this group we know some people but we don't know all of you we were also thinking of having different groups in and also like ideas interacting with each other from the nipple point of view communication wanna do a technical point of view you can also form groups if you would like to talk to lawyers or just to tech people developers we are very flexible in how to form those groups but those are some suggestions from our side so us with blood and he was [Music] I think these two are very connected to each other we got even the motivation of Dianetics the creative economy so we're just going to merge those and we have two artists so don't worry about time I think we have enough time to actually go through all these questions and then we can merge there for communication which we do in technicalities to maximum that I think that it sort of that might actually direct I'm probably thinking about which tools to use and who are the stakeholders that are actually so if you feel okay to that license make to post it's about the two groups and I think we should lead into two groups um we have two considers they're going to take care of planning also they're going to have all the questions presented so we might have to you guys and then Indiana me somebody here if the group is smaller we can also discuss in it it really depends on what you're interested in and what would you like to discuss I mean do you have an idea have you been asking yourself about those questions not - not really I mean yeah yeah [Music] did anybody hear or any part of this basement okay so Iowa State [Music] signing up the McCracken account we hope you inspire us like didn't go through the entirely KYC process together and unlike the job back happened I was like texting my friend that works at crack celery's I was like I think this is enough matter like about like I was like it just made me like it just reminded me of a theorem again the same you being lazy every process about materialism so that Hank actually probably when we have those for securing the sort of a period of of exuberance the same is true both of them UTC you see mediate for the de both those cases who ended up creating something that we can order the ETA et Cie imported bunch of people who have been in that that injury atheria before but you know fell by it [Music] you certainly market price of the combined thing was was greater than the previous one right for for at least in that area and then we have easier when BCH appear to be split off and that happy also affect it just like it's kind of funny to verb the community to complement that information live today only even don't know and there is this different perspective on reports promised my project had so long that has nothing to do but this almost is that okay it's a pure element there's divorce though from value of the currency on the chain that's okay do we know whom the actual promised there were a lot of people on defense no we're not global that's all right well maybe the function not speaking specifically but it's here and yeah yeah because you've got kind of two decision points as a user when wind as well if it's achieved as a change to your persistent you'll be using firstly you there's the question of the Eurasian support chain or not but then one if the chain goes because anything happens the question is that do you then support it to the extent of supporting mine at the minority branch and do you actually think that it's worth actually have an ad vision and how do you fight if it's well I had so so part of it I guess is just whether it's something that's fundamental to you as part of the value of the thing right so for the EDC guides you know if you've got something that can't be tampered with by some social process then for them is do there's just no point in even being artifact that's just not something that's interested in wrestling and the same thing was true with the BTC BC BC age for that as far as the BCH guys were concerned the whole thing they were trying to do was build cash vessel and that if you said then say okay we're not going to scale this scaling is not very important to us I know the karate it's about a witness at least the shorter people you know it wasn't really interested in using this as money for everybody then as far as most be th class concern that's just not making something that were at Everest in doing so so even though they lose this huge Network effect they lose the ground and lose all the stuff that Bitcoin has but for them it's just not worth while being Bitcoin they draw that their own thing even if it does turn out to be in a general sense what I'm doing is that at the heart of a fort [ __ ] it's a technical issue were not to where luck or ahead in the end the main reason for the fork is a disagreement or the divergence or principle and that in at least who are at least until the BS being one I think the BSB wants more Intel personalities and if you're doing and what we're doing when we have the speed like this is based coming to politics and once you're doing politics that obviously as well as by the news you have personalities in factions and it was always just about money nothing else it's just another was mining interests like miners being and in theory Lewis's the poor community having why I won't get anything what I hardly think well it's just not enough of the community involved because they love us the money back and it's not did you see had proven that was very costly to do this because I was not expected at all right everybody thought everyone was going to go over but still you have vested interests like somebody lost money who has expense to gain money or losing power since gain power minor second Bitcoin and I think actually the people who are interested in the principle usually are pretty silent and don't give medals in the principles are not driving this course a lot I would say that probably unashamed that doesn't have money as a token and you wouldn't have this kind of debates with other things about polls okay so it's more in Northland at this point to retain theory no no no there's a lot of - how you see that history it was a lot of our people we had scenes putting strings making sure that goes from the house because so and that's not necessarily comes up first but I think it's people so in the case of the country reducing the value of the network funny and I mean it's like the community but like it's it's easy and money i first up with something network where like but you would be just like workforce or something like that expected this would be the part of you know all the debates and stuff and I think that more than bunnies like that we're about you cruising another like because Indian like it just takes that of this D really must accept on anything obviously like and they're not going to need governance to you know to decide on with and here in this precise case like yeah the other days the stakes are websites are money and stuff I don't know make maybe I don't make money like this about money they follow you probably I would suit my do more than money yeah but there are three different things about right the one is like Bitcoin as payment tool the other is people having Bitcoin and then there's people making bitcoins online and I'm not sure what we pretended is being the cosmos park was actually always why the corporate so and that was a big political game but I don't think it would politically charged and so now the accessibility would you say that we kind of need a new economy seems I mean we are already on the reasons money's a new study incentives there might be reasons they both great I wouldn't necessarily say that before we chose all the okay so that's sorry I don't know what the people that are deciding of course at the end of the day of mine so and they're driven by they always capital [Music] but the developers their reasoning is different it could be heard about mr. Cravens but it's ultimately the minor is decision with who who is you know more correct it's like it before callously they're like this chain is going to be more valuable so we're going to go mostly they have to fix their decision based on value because the capital investment yes the chain without the money value would just be the miners deciding whether that developers still need the world exchanges possible because basically nobody would have cared I may not be in the case with the BTC be states that basically miners are defeated right the miners are certain authority of the miners warranted a block size upgrade you know if your people will say with them and they don't it was the outcome yeah it's like it's like a chain it's like the miners do it based on profit but it becomes legitimate based on exchanges like the doc did so it's like they're taking a risk that this is more profit but it's like a gambling game or so you have to like figure out okay which one which path should we go so I'm hearing two things when he supported the stakeholders so my name is the credit various exchanges who are very sort six yeah there's a hydrating and it's like took pass it's like first it's the developers and some items like the exchanges its accusers rights like the flow like that I don't think I said well it's programs as though it's one of those things that yeah change color yeah is to develop this equalness at the society like well divert slash Twitter that's right developer slash Twitter again appraised like everybody things it's a bad thing but we know it might be technically will thing just because it's technically because yeah yeah I mean I mean ha I thought it was helpful it's awful almost not worth using in this discussion into the I mean there are very kind of a technical detail of how upgrade is done but I think what we may need to hear is he coming for us right we're talking about whether they mean he splits or accantus bits so normally I would put words in economic for when you when you end up with if X be two separate currencies but that but then the economic forum [Music] and in that situation continue with with something that was happening at the beginning like we have in the section also going on because an exchange of hats and developers basically say these funds and it's I think that's me one very interesting case worth telemedicine lady who's actually responsible for maybe no like deciding what are these sections in connection Cyril I think that's there's all of a sudden because they don't have the government's system where did you hear that decisional cables just want to loosen isn't this analysis a decision-making process they just have developers themselves so that's one of the questions we are having tonight whatever so say that we actually have one community that besides that we are able to at least partially identify to stakeholders that are going to provide us with those answers and if we lower interview on the barriers reports I think that means that there is plenty of options to create a lot of words and sweep the community and all of a sudden that we have more and more communities but less than that stakeholders that are actually governing the whole system but at the same time I mean that might actually be good it brings all of diversity into the system whoo sighs thanks only these two have fun please be excited that was the other day it's good it's just it's good to have like like an actual process of my s take place where you can say okay this is how we handle things this is how we certain exceptions so a higher pressure all of certain things better [Music] we shall have a process in place Nikki for election voice absolutely it could be very simple f7k is like 20 of our producers with science of basically policy elements etc and then if there was like lots of that is 21 people who basically people say okay we think what you did was wrong based on our website we creating if you this is the problem with creative process this is wild memory you kind of have to have forking it's the ultimate program is the beach.you creative process then that gives you one attack sound so scripts I mean when we we think at the government you know if a court audience needs to do something we consider that that's apt every but you can you can also think the bigger we start the kid with kidnappers Gospel writers poets and any formalized process that you have brings in some you know some kind of possible possibility of attacking you so if you think about it compared to normal forms of government you can kind of think think of the Constitution you know that's what I think or something at least also they you have observed certain Thank You Stacy coming in at work consensus might be arrested for something that kind of something something like yeah bitcoins that he doesn't a lot okay even it's a safer and some way and when pressured I have been support is we want to create this process provides or maximize support readiness to facilitate and health works to have a normally when employers because I because I feel that an economic war dolls always a traumatic experience because it was because the power of an economy is directly related to the amount of people the community sheer absolutely wasteful Fanning envenomed economy gives it resilience as molar economies more manipulable it's you can get a smaller actor came in to have a heavy meals it's easier to move thank you so actually scaled in my and they were they just got fifty one percent it nobody gave us why i support that we should be asking actually even whatever they so do we want more for less our citizens what is the target of that process or is there protection of what developers as you brought out right against class actions for some coin holders or miners or exchanges they all have their investments and while we're going to protect with this procedure or maybe one procedure because that can be detected and i think there's probably a lot of untapped potential in the technology that right now might be violence acidity that's being enforced by the economic issues I don't that's that's the that's the blaring that has to be negotiated and so that that's why in the upgraded for it the ideal like everyone do we wanna be conservative for it and I think what I'm trying to get I was starting to see is that there is invisible for tonight in benefit it can be anywhere if we approach that like there's the incentive for this but starts to grow and if anything what we should do is create mechanisms to make the sport line that is a law and make people make sense sense make around them so predictable well just get people to talk about it's a good at different like what is what it is this way I brought up interests of Myers that we're not quite up the DTC's Bitcoin Excellus attacking material that is probably part of the picture so why divorced even had my own and also this other fact that I feel lots of technicians actually stay on the fence they go either way you're not to go go they don't have this kind of opinion I have an opinion about box Texans go on right what's better but the reviving technician kind horses horses should probably be on the table and bigger than the whole thing was very similar story who's that's what I thought he's I thought proofer speak is always going to be on the table so what the miners knew what they're going into from the beginning is not coming because of - idea yeah the title was not been out - please - yeah I mean what is it you're doing right now like to get ready for work how are they communicating to the miners to the community what do they have a plan here - yeah no no no but like no like the presentations that we were listening to like how do we if there is going to be a new idea of a suggestion for the upgrade of the software what is going to be the governance going through how to discuss willing to actually make a suggestion when the decision is made [Music] that's why I'm bringing up exchanges I think this is kind of a change that we're gonna see you can increase me with the ethereal as react interact more with the rest the world because with their coin you've got a currency which is just a meat basically it's just it's just a number and it kind of you through each other they kind of about that except they examine how can certificate is it sort of care about but what we say oopsey material is that now we've got dye and dye is supposed to be one dollar right so dyeing will not clean me for probably if you have if you've got a dime which is supposed to be picked or honor respect using either on a check if you've ever thought about changing that one of the three things can happen one is the only one chain one after either still worth a dollar in the other one zero dollars so that's just kind of blown up your whole for key government backstop system because of the minority even if they're correct no no we have a functioning are stable coin which has just exploded you know two swings of the contract at this point so that's bad making weird if it's exactly balanced you could end up with $1 be two dollars one or each chain which would be kind of very unless you're clatter all day which case the cut is terrible or potentially they might both got to do so firstly those are all kind of bad outcome so we can't so much we've got dying we can't just split that immunity in the way we could at the time of the of the ETA t disease walk it's gonna you know wreak all kinds of havoc long ago but then the second problem is who actually has the power to decide where die colors we'll probably the guys who are publishing the memorial that's a very small number of people and they now all this power of effectively whichever side the making of Oracle ponies that's how it's gonna wait so now we didn't ever process we we didn't do not refer people we do have to be pretty soon the people who control basically chain yeah but the maker Oracle is basically a bunch of people signing exchanges or they can't charge these exchanges tea parties yeah but you might see something needing these on questions again you have this pattern of the outside you run it yet exchanges for the angular is the Oracle yet taken outside value yet carrying the day and then I go forward the next thing that happens is that we're trying if we're trying to be trying to change the world when I'm trying to make things right so we're going to try to have a world that you want to say okay well to which issue or my house right I want to control the deeds of who owns my house on an object when it was Bitcoin when it was either we could just split and then you have to be thorough when he thought of Brian to see two big corners two kinds of Bitcoin but I won't on physical house so let me state chain we can't split my house so where we were able to kind of equivocating the world now has to decide on one and that that means that there are we into external actors often potentially regulate factors as well who now have control over which one do they say when I say I own this house you dug from this house and I get the call to enforce you know the fact that I can live in the house and you can't live in the house then you've got next to the port disliking which is really sort of the thing with because there's lots of exactly us there was no place where it doesn't react important yeah so basically I'll set aside what it's like for us to get that goes on the separator yeah and then the other people could just drop with which has to become as well is that the IRS finally announced their gym or handle pay taxes on on for coins and iris which i think is technically correct but has all kinds of nasty impacts is that when you get a new console appears you have to pay taxes on data set you just acquired so now the MIR s is gonna decide which is the pre-existing chain and which is the new fortune and they're gonna make me to pay taxes on you for watching I think we have the situation you know New York Americans we in our argument because we know some of the people that work for tax authorities and thing to have addresses right to say hey we're going to so much but okay so he's can it sounds like we're already having third parties that are deciding about myself so their opinion having a mediation process in place or like just about keep the court systems well because there's a lot of process and exactly yeah but on the end might not care what we decide right I mean how it might be actually much easier to just go with an existing support system and say okay you'll be the ones deciding there's plenty of different support systems in the world so we don't really just find the courts of many jurisdictions and many international courts for specific legal issues we also have different organs WTO and health organizations and they all have their own dispute mechanisms so we if we want to become much more independent it seems to me as if we were that we will need to establish our own district mechanisms so that we are the ones deciding in which changes to return and addressing those issues because those were the debates we have with like a workshop yesterday on the legal and theorem also what to botanic would say that sorry what the blood was saying so like if we're not going to take care of our own groups some other organizations or institutions are going to come in and say okay this is the right thing yeah but who decides who is going to be that easy I mean we're not talking about you America and and it also who do you say however the stakeholders could even maybe decide exactly that's really good question like who word players who are the stakeholders again like is it deteriorations if it died I don't know the foundation sorry no I think that vary in terms of psychology and maybe adventure like so they are Confederates tickler started under work in general and instead that honored this marketing to include negative the same thing that we're trying to do it in the link but you know it's about including the river of giving a right to reveal her to have an anus some poison to something like organization and stuff I think that's the very rectory keep our that this them so did I think that what makes peace we have taken his organizations like very young a good a group of single buildings specifically works of latex of weakness miners and users and developers mainly my hands and users injury to do segment without the blockers to provoke a new from now they get from the moments I complimented the finest and users are the country oh there's the truth groups are essential for a portable to you that without users negative about you goes to zero and one dead miners evaluates to zero and so give us first leg first group of staple them that really has the I mean yeah yeah I mean you can go to zero with can they can without users will get like to absolute zero if we are they what we're thinking it still has some useful I mean if you use nothing coverage of miners securing the network it's very secure and you have users say using UTM as a store value I mean still about you do you scale I mean once you take maybe some other network will scare with maybe like so if you can't use it if you have a problem with being in transaction $900 to have value think a bit quite because embarrassing your increasing that it's like the number of transactions and in theorem today it was like 1000 times of no one I hurt people so many views I went through necessarily talking about like practical more I cannot strike width of this like a distinction to make for the cooler side do you invite you to the network and profiting from the Detroit directly it's not the case of like developers of an interest internet internet or be considered somewhere like their holders of the coin so then like they provide development work to the network in dirt you know do they have a stake in the network but actually like yeah I see this like very close relationship with only women miners and users who really have this I keep value and take value from the network in this an obvious relationship the author concluded but I think that's I don't agree but it's good you pointing to this these groups because I think on the one hand the miners are a non-elected price on the other hand the developers actually very very strong agree that once and still politics and they're also kind of not there's no representation in a sense but they still take the whole technology stack in the direction that they as they know that they quite important just be blunt I think a lot of the navigating that Silicon Valley is also having an audience base also developers are addressing my problems they are interested a long enough improve things so that's very strong I think you've been there's no fork right but there's a hard core of them as new features but chess other words that this feature is not going to people so so it's good I think I don't agree that developers are such an important group here but I agree with the it's kind of like saying aranaut only refined without like locked answers users there's no Johnny I'm ready for anything to have value that's like technology that there's always going to be have to be the control literally improving and upgrading but yeah like you were saying very important today I think if you were to take so same thing no other public over the history of didn't know it so ii would be created from now and difficulties of you to tomorrow and always defects in will we never use it would you know now today it can still work it was so hot buddy but if users disappear nobody - disappearing nobody but if little mr. dear I don't need it anymore kit like where I can get a big bit of puzzle like we're soul [Music] a lot of pieces which is sweet yeah that's in any case of a lack of open market word like you would have some other protocol that you take there what about transparency so we kind of know where how the core developers are discussing we can listen to their polls but what about miners do you know anything about miners do we know this community you know as signals we try to gather the sentiment of different stakeholders the human community to kind of see which he is with by which groups one of the proposals to change protocol in a way that - kind of somehow switch somewhere and indicate that they're in the favor of the CP abundance the only way we totally know that this amount of power is for the city or not but wasn't implemented is not planning and otherwise they asked like wonder when they discussed the the reduction they asked like 3-2 the for one made sure what we do when one small they tried to talk doing this like one hour and a half two hours but then they didn't invite him for the verticals they kind of just got their opinion but it wasn't continued over time to develop the solutions together future okay what about mining pools like there were sometimes OC to text or to [Music] when we are talking about how independent or we can call it or not and I think having Connexus to reminders when I impose they're very important they can also be dangerous for those by an example is that I didn't find them that could undermine the whole idea of - decisions are not immersed in our acting but I mean we know that my reality they call decentralized dictionaries yeah so I mean that's something that the cyberspace where all of a sudden everybody is going to be so very detached from all like who it's not their only it's like Seikaly everybody's going on offense or a placement in touch with reality city think in the end you still national partners outs was like something else actually like trying to decides to take the class and it's not they don't do it they might move somewhere else but that's exactly things like if we don't provide mechanisms to make this a base of legible for estates and a stateless respondent government and say okay this is what we need to make this the space medical plus that might detects this might be your emanation whatever and so the do we need to have the conversation which seems like we always go between those seem to be extreme so also we mentioned being tied right we wanted to dream of having a completely decentralized internet but it didn't really end up being completely centralized and same happened with the blockchain but when he compared it to what was historically the previous thing that we had it's much more decentralized than what we had the port so we mean that for example we had well ok yeah you might argue that I would love to be at the argument we resemble even but I seized we had video and television and newspapers and they were just a certain amount of people that was providing the information and we beat the net we got so much many some which court of the people that are now people that equation cinco sleepwatching he only had - and now all of a sudden you have different cryptocurrencies he had the ability have different entry points and yes of course there are barriers but at least we had an eternity so they might still become a bit more decentralized I mean I think it increases like I said if the state decides to intervene and as much why I think the most important is some make this big magical 4 HD so that they can understand it's sort of like and if they want to taxes that independence you never tools tool well I think about this thing that the taxes is that the state itself is actually a decentralized mechanism and he's more decentralized the Kings were previously divorced so if you read the history of how the states and nation states were actually read at least privileged centralization motion whatever the power dynamics went before them so I mean what I say is he said buy some more I think it's states are much more like well I stressed out see night estate okay it's great legibility like power dissipation of my kidneys to states and say okay you as the king wants to understand if it was actually digging into my domain also he started the way how it's calling people see my god it's like making this big manageability making a substrate it's vegetable for today we can raise more taxes things like that in the end taxes like automate makes workarounds we foresee the future so we do have some institutions like checks and balances and makes the differentiation of different powers in the state so that would be kind of an ideal the centralization that I was telling about before but yeah I mean at the end it's like going back to to the topic governance like yeah I'm just saying that the states whatever the status will make the spot-check thing vegetable form of the state whatever that me might meet me might be okay in China or in in Europe you might have said hey you have to refresh it as a minor if you want to like operate as an item might also just mean you can just continue as a minor nobody interested because the stages doesn't it's important enough to expend its resources are like this because important but I think if we our selves don't deal with like exactly business or the governor's promise might even say he's processed understand more than some the company outside say okay we need to understand this because your developers debugs save the money I was like 20 people which style $200 why and then they will make legislation and positive about you you can decide that it's better to say we as a community so try to figure out these processes or one of the sponsors as yeah last year when they published a tweet that there are no fun sent a developer further but then it's not work you live there and they got like two investors and they now are seeing the operation he won and his question cuz they can develop the same software tool to him and I think in the future you might might prepare for the complexity and like def 112 have seven different versions to community comment and some like for example available on successful version of aetherium but still crazy abilities say something that because actually what if there has to do is try to rejoin as I've done everything they want to watch charism serial 1x when the main or custom to zero it accident have a lot I don't know but it's interesting that yes also this courage of the speech we so why did for and this this something actually my sister Harris for was one of the first books were somebody that's more that's out a long time ago they forked ethereal instead so he gonna create the economic version or a pet business burden ethereal and then they actually started to alter stuff and they took it all back because they couldn't keep up with until they made themselves the paddle again until the basically we joined there's also I mean so you know wait by conviction that means that it's a fragmentation of a state right so it was a federation before and then all of a sudden that was notion that all states became sorry we I don't think he's necessarily a bad thing although we do hear our parents and our grandparents talk about it for another five innovations was more like supposedly like need to instructional a greater whole aspect also telling I just being I mean mostly but it's a little bit work-wise look I mean we have to come that for us right doesn't make sense to use that build that brings with it that is critical of becoming independent as my husband we thought we coined that term is unity when it was fracturing and resulting in huge war which to us would to us quite accusing walk with every different country through you know our [Music] nation's everyone's funny about it is that we were sovereign and independent for a couple of years and then we joined the European Union so we never really were a sovereign and independent state as a not be connected to a greater whole okay what we were discussing before the the fragmentation and all the force and then all of them uniting and coming back together I mean that's the process we have especially the we're kind of comparing this to like bringing your own company or building your own new states when you're 14 maybe if we think about working at all I can copy/paste down and make I don't know the idea would be kind of different actually I think it was it I think it was in March there were some colleagues saying oh we should work make it all who doesn't me interesting how that is actually going forward it is with if 1913 that a software for is an attempt to actually take all the existing but a logical disintermediate the mechanism of maker right because for example as you have something being done about the the key the key I think you just won and the thing is that after you explains the importance of time China the picture you don't have enough fiber to understand but that's where it ceases we had in every I won't have style coin and the weights that caught his eye so everything is gonna be dying so basically there were seven never said it was a multi sick of seven people and he basically physically and psychologically forced his partners it's about need to take ownership and so it's a document it looks like my men like real life protected sort of it's alright just like pages and pages of bleep memos from inside it was a process that was happening about six months ago yeah and now we can do work and it has all the billions of funds maker that is commanding in the history he is the CEO of his company once it's good but the other side but specifically he can control the price we know he he he has the he controls the entire autistic so if you draw the should get it to me well what was the system before do you know how to talk seen interiors themselves so much that they're actually it's not that much of a thing as long as the seven people [Music] here that we can evolve again perfect there is the darkness so we recorded someone survive and some you move change so I guess the way I felt about this originally when I was thinking when I was you make only in small contacts I thought that we would make a machine I thought the models mechanical model when you're trying to physically do things on us that's kind of the idea that you have this machine put something in is gonna follow these determine steps so an additional machine in theory can just run forever but then when I started working things like prediction markets where there's a problem of parasite you know if you have a young a prediction marking system that it's reliant on having a certainly not very talkative orders too many users of this system then it becomes insecure occurs a world of placing the Graduate on it's worth I started to think that these unchanging mechanical systems are actually not sustainable and that you have something that's more like a biological system where you've got a bunch of actors that are continually evolving and if they don't continue then they're gonna die so if you have an animal it allows itself to be parasites not a spectacle yes so I mean think of the basic structure of DNA where it's very bright you can't change that right you can't change a lot of what is programmability and you want to change that base expect any un-break everything yeah so I think that's where on the whole block chain went becoming too complex because the original lizard makes a lot of sense and then you have to create something that's super simple and you don't have to change it and then you have the layer on top of that we can have this got biological development so saying and then maybe every ten years you also say take that layer underneath that's gonna be messed up because we have that all merge into one which way I think it's here we've got a lot more complex than people probably human wasn't getting much more simple and through that same so I think maybe it's just it happened that way and that's also a good aspect about when we talk about working is there may be a proposition to be made that maybe stuff should be separated into layers so we had a different discussion about what a fork means and when it is necessary and how it might be then very clear that a certain folks really just of economic aspects and another poll I mean oh yeah but that was part of the promise fear that died for my guess was Bert you have the easy Anthony and the the assumption was that but my most people would probably have agreed that if it was about any easier and that it was possible to firstly hard to fix that bad but also if it was then possible to take some Recovery Options for contact to the contract that had suffered for that buggy EVM they're not something that people want to do and the you know the analogy has happened in Bitcoin multiplications well the coins that were issued the students have been issued and nobody said what was it quite simple to remember that was new to me right everybody said okay we'll fix it and we'll put it back to where it should have been but the controversy with the down rescue was the the the bunk was in a contract built on top of the EVM EVM functioning correctly however it was built some contact on top of the EVM but also our documentation so if you were if you were coding if you ready these very under all the using the EVM even the kind of the commonly accepted way you may still get that back so it seems like from the point of your user is almost a distinction without a difference that the EVM is working correctly but from my point of view if I do what I'm supposed to do to make the EVM function I still get hit you know so that's I think part of where that can promise you when there's something that said that the EVM is correct so peopleö and other people said look from the user point of view it may as well a bit wrong so we need fit yeah I don't think that really happen okay yet but but I guess the question is then is there a society of the kind of sustainable layers about what you're going to say isn't gonna change of what it's a challenge and then an act I definitely think that's a good conversation so so the practical example is that we discover fit fairly early on that gas prices change and to me it's always been something's always been an assumption as a as a developer that gas prices will change but apparently a lot of people to get that right so so now we it looks like we need to change the gas prices to allow us to scale you theory because the row it's - it turns out it's right in the state writing data to the chains - chief now and also reading data from the chains - Jeep but then computational operations for example to extensive in comparison to have for all the users who ever well the possible changes that can be made and that having them all listed in cent next to that how hard it is to change one of them or yet what he thinks because to me it also seems like we also have these constitutions and the government I mean all the states are running based on laws not changed you have the Constitution as it should be changed as people as possible and as we as less frequency as possible and then you have the bylaws that are changing very fast and can be changed very severely yeah based on what the interest of the administration is and here it's very much the same I mean the gas is going to change just like the administration violence right while the Evi etherion virtually she's not going to change very fast right and and we don't really want it to be changes okay because it's the layer 0 so the more layers would be it almost seems like they're creating this hierarchy along these things and then the highest there is probably going to be what we're operating day by day and can be changed according to we need one of these faces yeah I mean that that doesn't quite fit that gasps example because the gas price has already had every detail and although as they detailed but such so it may be that it doesn't actually quite correspond to the protocol layers but I do think that this kind of an implicit understanding about certain things that are currently County to me divyam and other things that kind of are my County and that information I think is very bad chair and then on a practical level through a bunch of things that they can attain eg theorem 2 and the etherion sue protocol developed that's kind of implicitly generally know that but everybody else doesn't have that then there's definitely a concrete communication failure there about you know first what is the implicit understanding that we try not to change the gas price it doesn't count but the fact you install something does come and secondly in practice what is going to change in future that information obviously wants to be circulated share this information with people better go but when a veteran changes ever two years five years or changing these small don't even feel it even though attendance we have our velocity that they will like holes like you don't mind change movements when our flight for me United States to Europe the distance is changing every year budget regions as our concept there's no point in that but how do it des prés did that it Romanians are like constant for a lot of time to dictated if it's possible to do this many words properly and mark instant probably or don't even to clarify better people do know that this is a parable and we will with not changed three design coasters just without no reform but do you expect that this will lead to a for possibly possibly not returned from Thailand think so guess I mean it is a major change right it's gonna bring contracts that work now and still I think the expectation is yet as a technical necessary security change there's no there's no you cannot make it just riding on it so it's probably not gonna with them I think that the it looks like they taught it it probably won't happen the way it was intended but it was a plan to save rent which would have broken a lot of contracts and really broken kind of reasoning between those contracts but if I think that if the core development team that trying to work that out I think there would have been a new car you can forget first retardant but imagine you have very badly Brighton content they'd like hard coded amount of gas that will simply stop working after the unit and you don't have a proxy the only way to run that code can be here on our older version or if you do some more proud and also it's also finish defaults right yeah because it's just you know be a possible so yeah that a lot starts to progress yeah and it's possible that people that like this quarters one break should keep all our versions or choose we move around I just think that's possible but my point is that because they're naughty right ahead like the Dow people want to get the money read and not it's a lot less fingers and I think that's important believe me if you got money in actual contracts and those contracts broker broker and a definite about money mine yes sounds like it with more allowance and then I think that any State Department they can't gas pricing probably not it's the state record there's a severe pretty damn change but I think because and I think that's important because this traumatic events I think only happen the best money okay something is set to regain had assets frozen depending on the port happening or not I think that should inform the whole idea about a gator what are you discussing the price of ch4 well it's only money others they did say it was money to be heard blockchain games take off big time and and all of a sudden is important my favorite property gave us almost 1/4 it's not supported by the company I'm not part of it I don't I don't care about money or just one idea yet but ours being aware that this could actually happen that you can lose a part of your whatever you to be in activities because it's a toss up so it's not so much a part of the activity but same cake because the company shows us 140 I might first need for whatever reason to steal before it and then it should be a discrepancy just because before it worked I thought doesn't work anymore and there's no emotions just they might the negative okay if this stuff to Tristan full force and the complimentary order is because they there's a lot of people that would simply delete facebook but they never do because we have purchase of people and we have messenger and he's simply not none other acquisitions that we would allow me to migrate everything that I have on Facebook that that would function better and not sell me data and would my privacy and stuff like that so what I thought is possibility budgeting and having the permissionless systems is that we are creating a system where these migrations are going to be much more possible as possible and now what you're saying is that because of the fork we are actually pike what are the sizes yes you might still be able to play your game on your fault but it will I mean if the company decides to adopt the other fork yeah that's a breaking changes then they just might not be able to you to play we're talking about Facebook it's like it's it's cold but it's also the network effect so is it like is it more like in the future are therefore more likely to happen more or less likely to happen in comparison to the past I mean because like the network is going to be bigger we are kind of used to how would you even works we are using is there more important yeah in the case of Caesar yeah I you guys think no more yeah like gospel wraps isn't like before going yeah can you say that I see you like tensile force of the fury in your protocol everybody's working on this community and so on so they basically take and even Libra have taken part of the hearing protocol right so it's already happening I think there will be more and more about making hard works right has our community no no nothing that is just like it's just using the code base yeah it's a software how you like to print other company just easily it's just using a library yeah okay good certainty cause I think the more to see why are they 24 technically right it is a technical if that yeah and if what it means is you part ways that's a you know but you've started about a code that's not the same atmosphere it's about here and then use the synergy you might have a distinct closer together oh that's in that sense it's more forming protocol like you know yeah not so much of a software software might be completely different obviously using the same protocol yeah I mean for example taken to normal gravity to get it but if they were not at work right does not compute different software but the still talking about that could get out of work oh I see forged and you might actually agree never met me don't you change it just mean thing make a copy of this thing and that is ready to develop in a different direction for songs and all for working it back right the technical term just means that so you talk theorem forks that means don't necessary they they change matter they change a lot of whatever but they usually have reason and they don't necessarily the community something new technically to the pork because they used to cook bits of a theater best starting point but for us they would you consider of a part of the lake so we can't be TV that's so and basically according to protocol I had considered a pretty different from that person for libera you'd be using part of the code base to do something completely different that night not working a question of whatever that thing I mean let's you working the repo if you want leg and using some confidence begins at midnight here where things it's a portable like way to being Mike it's basically a version of the statement yeah so we a lot of questions and I think so you think [Music] so I am spending is much better now got it especially the body that was an interesting case yeah I think I would actually love to go with the people that past four quarters and just find out whether we can formalize that it's one of the order of courts and white and have [Music] go for it well I think we should have had a bigger and business and be more actionable domestic festival [Music] barking to because it died thinking I think we would have thought better incredible mistress I noticed I kind of felt that for example if you receive a foundation it's kind of responsible for maintaining the wraps you know a chain so I know that like but the dollar was there they did some communication it was and so on so I think they have at least some fellow understanding how to react and it was over time and I maturely users like you when you sound like we need to be responsible towards it Amish road users would pair it up too woman like they can join a phone we have a 72-hour just would find ourselves it's some time we gave the situation of having to change just selected what we package it but I found the conversation really interest my first for me and the subtle because that one listening to some of your exchanges and partly also like glimpses of make technical decisions because I mean we're talking about work from our perspectives and stuff like that I also show system liver whether the next one thing I understood also late because we haven't chatted about lake you know governance models and what is much consensus where the reasons these good aspects benefits where you can report how may became more formalized models can so what Rick to understand why they kept people and Ethier people like than to say that formal formal governance processes is very hard to implement because there are his new kinds of attacks and stuff and because like basically as soon as you formalized something the complexity when you were mentioning like they were considered a national electricity grid into the you know the way your different asset mapping mapping different stakeholders that maybe have to be taken into account in the affluent setting up and have like in the governance model you see colder side than the network and Stewart's prior to do so yeah dude super they really manage that they can see the next generation of this would be I would be coming back to the additional questions I had like we want to provide more I buy this but it's but a lot of stuff matters someone attractive to me was very interesting and especially the part of the stakeholders so would we need to dress how are they like a power play between those different organizations or non organizations if we have feeling that this is something that is actually not true or it's just happening or it's just something that it's like a combination of different things like some person that is very charismatic or like convincing a group of community which community how disinterested Geter so yeah just like opening [Music] [Applause]