Future of Asset Management: How smart contracts are changing a multi-billion dollar industry

[Music] hello oh perfect well hello everybody my name is Gabrielle enero and I'm a financial regulator here at adgm um we have actually heard a lot about regulation and not from me but from different people from this ecosystem so that's been very interesting especially considering being here within adgm there's evely a lot of willingness and want to develop the things that uh enhance business notably Frameworks and different types of Regulation now unfortunately uh monel Isa who is the CEO of Vanguard Finance could not make it her flight got cancelled so we are all very sad to not have her here however um I'm sure she'll be around at a later date so if you did want to meet her at some point please do reach out but I have my wonderful panelists so jeel from crunch so you can say hello hi hello Gabrielle hello everyone uh thank you so much for being here uh should I present a little bit crunch da or should we go ahead and then I'll get on to together okay hello everyone so um I am co-founder and Chief Information officer at Crunch and crunch is a community of machine learning uh engineers and researcher we have 5,000 researcher around the world 600 PhD and we use Smart contract to allow financial institution to Leverage Ai and use AI uh in their in their reparation by getting in touch with our community and we've been joining up 71 two weeks ago and it's an absolute Delight to be here in Abu Dhabi thank you Gabriel thank you so uh you're fresh yes Gary you're a little less Fresh So Gary shankman partner at further Ventures yeah well Welcome to our humble Village By the Sea thank you um hi everyone uh Gary one of the partners at further Ventures uh we are are an adq backed uh Venture Builder we focus primarily on building out next Generation markets infrastructure so some of that means uh fch companies some of that means uh digital asset infrastructure including broker dealer custodian onoff ramp staking uh and insurance products uh we're based right here in in Abu Dhabi uh have five companies up and running uh and hope we have a chance to speak at some point in time well you know we've been notified that we actually have a good 40 minutes with you today so you have you'll have ample opportunity to talk and also if someone does want to scream you know questions at the end I won't say no but you know organizers might have issues all right so we are here to talk about the wonderful world of smart contracts right and how they apply to Asset Management so so far we've been told that they can you know leverage oper it's better for operational efficiency it lowers costs it can you know be a way of De democratizing access to Asset Management which is known to be quite expensive my my question to either of you and you can just jump on it is if it's not broke why fix it where do smart contracts fit well it's not broken I agree but there is always a way there is always ways for improvement right and I'm guess there is probably many asset managers here and you guys know that there is uh work that needs to be done and if even from the point of view of our fiduciary duty of asset manager you have this obligation toward your customer right to um do what's in their best interest right so when there is Technologies like smart contracts that can enhance transparency which mean enhancing um risk management which can lower the cost of transaction all this added value will then repel on your customer so there is I think a duty to uh study do uh technology and and really try to push them forward yeah I mean I think we're we all get very spoiled with beautiful interfaces be it with fund administrators or or newer banks that are out there but if we kind of peel back and and open up the hood it's all a bit of spaghetti with a whole bunch of ads technology right uh and so while I don't believe that you know we'll democratize access to products uh you know I think every new development in technology is a way to save costs and to dump on ret uh we we will have you know material efficiencies to gain right you know today everything from fund Administration to Capital call management to reporting to audit is an extraordinarily painful and expensive process for all sorts of asset management firms and so as we get better Primitives uh and you know higher quality databases and you know better contract execution we'll be able to you know work in kind of more interesting and dynamic ways I think uh but more importantly I think the barrier to creating higher quality products is going to drop okay but very honestly what does it actually mean integrating a smart contract at any point let's say of the asset management you know Journey whether is executing on contracts as you said or removing an intermediary what does it concretely mean how does it actually make things cheaper or make life easier that one or well you actually replace some intermediaries with the smart contract so what you are going to do is um use this piece of code uh to actually replace an intermediary so this piece of code will be operating in a completely transparent way because smart contract are hosted onchain so they are public data so for you as asset manager or for an asset issuer it will be the opportunity to OST data uh within this smart contract as well to have more transparent product and and and more transparent transactions more transparent Market making more transparent uh uh uh settlements of some transaction because those smart contracts will be public and completely transparent and the goal in the end is replacing intermediary which will lower the cost and enhance transparency I mean if you think about again in more normal or day-to-day or traditional acts aset management just how much paperwork in humans it requires to do a capital call or to place funds into escrow or to keep regulatory capital in in a way that's you know transparent to the people that actually care you know be it stakeholders or or various other you know people in in the ecosystem that might want to check if you actually have you know the funds uh on on hand that you're supposed to so there's a lot of manual work that currently goes into this world that can just go away uh and that makes working with intermediaries uh and other stakeholders much much easier because all of a sudden you remove a lot of that human friction and hey if I want to integrate you know with your Market maker or with your other you know data provider all of a sudden I just need to come up with my side of it and I know hey there's an oracle here that is providing me with correct data I don't really have to worry about you know is this a properly registered firm have they completed their audit you know all of these questions just go away okay very interesting however keep in mind this is nonetheless a multi-billion dollar industry lots of jobs lots of capital lots of people relying on it and I guess as you mentioned it relies on numerous intermediaries which are in one way or another they are part of the whole process of checks and balances and controls that are put in place now can we actually trust smart contracts to execute as we expect them to I mean can we trust the code um so that's the beauty of it you it's not about trusting the code it's about seeing the code first so that's the first advant per you will see what will be executed it's not like you will um have a contract with a software provider that is actually hosting his piece of software on his own server that is audited on his side right uh here you will be able to actually see what will be executed so this transpar this transparency is very very important here and then I think my second Point uh will be that you don't trust you anticipate and no thing is 100% secure there is always a chance that a system could be exploited and if you look at the budget even in in traditional Finance UBS is spending around half a billion uh Swiss Franks every year only on security uh spending so they are custodian of trillions of assets right so they they have this fiduciary duty of making sure that their system are secure and you will have always people that will spend and days and years trying to hack a system and if you want to do not be hacked you need to attract the um the security researcher and the community uh toward your protocols and the incentives needs to be relevant when you think that UBS is spending half a billion Swiss frank every year to solve this problem the guy that can enter the system they are smart and they know the relevance of your incentive so if you want to educate and and and have those people come toward this technology and make it safer you need to put the right incentives and I think it's it's very important to always remember that no system are perfectly safe you can buy the most secure car you can buy the last Volkswagen right and it can still break somehow so I think it's important to to to keep that in mind you know and in terms of kind of the companies providing the checks and balances I mean most of them can burn to the ground uh I mean in in general right you know if you're talking about audit fund Administration um a whole bunch of accounting you know half of the legal work that your Law Firm charges you for these are this is rent extraction you know these are pro these are high margin processes for shuffling paperwork uh no actual value happens no one is reading these contracts you know I've I've never had a piece of code or a software issu me the wrong number of shares uh you know but it allows it allows you know the The Firm to point the finger when someone something goes wrong right so where do you point the finger with the smart contract in that case so I I think that what will end up happening is that and this is a little bit pessimistic there will be a long transition where you know Consulting companies will stop selling urp software and they will lead you on your digital transformation uh to uh to Smart contracts right and so we will always need some sort of an audit process for the smart contracts and we'll we'll all pay for that as an industry uh and hopefully at some point in time that will become automated uh and so just the auditing of the contracts themselves um that's something that you know code will be able to do itself right you know right now you know Chad GPT shark can give you a very very basic site but very very quickly you can start to ask questions whether you know this piece of this smart contract for example has errors or not even today uh you know if you're signed up for Chad gp4 you can have it write up a very basic smart you know smart contract at least in in evm uh and it works it won't be good just yet it won't be efficient but the fact that you can do this for $20 a month is is pretty impressive and that means that in a couple of years you know we'll be pretty production great with this stuff so to answer your question where to look and this is a fundamental of blockchain which are hosting the smart contract it's the concept of redundancy of the information and you find also this uh this aspect in aunix for example critical systems where you will have three four five um sensor that are doing the same thing and what the blockchain is doing is basically um providing this redundancy because the information is hosted in many places to avoid this single point of failure uh uh issue which is very problematic when you rely on one provider for this piece of data one provider for for this settlement then when this single point of failure is breaking the overall system can uh can break thanks to redundancy you have this copy of the information everywhere that you can double check you can perform averages between the different provider and this is very easily enabled it's actually built into blockchain and smart contract it's it's built around this Hony which is a very strong uh safu Guardian for for for both cyber Securities and and uh and um and data and that issues that you can face in financial markets I I want to jump back to something you mentioned when we were talking about auditing you talked about the right incentives right to actually see if there's any you know failure points you also mentioned bug Bounty um you mentioned having you know the need for a community that would be looking at this code or even looking at problems in general does this mean that you think that a good audited contract or good smart contract should be fully transparent so that the community can go in and I guess press against it push against see what's attack yes yes exactly I think and that's well known in the cyber security Community you need to engage and be proactive and and and kind of provoke uh the issue as soon as possible right and provoke as many issue as possible so instead of having being earthquake you have this smaller perturbation that are easier to underwrite um now um regarding your second Point um um sorry that was about I just forgot well that is my problem I do ask multiple questions in one go I think it was about whether you thought that contracts had to be fully transparent so that the community could go exactly could try to you know push their luck and and see failure points there is this one particularity of smart contract that they are transparent so if your business depends on IP if your business depends on um trade secret or business of it depends on something that you cannot share right it's your competitive Advantage then you cannot put it on a smart contract right and is what the what the what the industry is currently facing now that you will have to use encryption scheme to be able to put this IP inside the contract put these models on the contract Etc and this is very challenging there is some field like homomorphic encryption that are moving forward but are not they are not yet they are not here that they are not yet here they're not quite ready yes I think one of the things that's important to think about is we we look at kind kind of the crypto technology and the traditional Finance space as like oh you know why doesn't do XYZ yet um or when will this be be available um it's it's kind of like it's a you know dead horse and you keep kicking it's like come on do something um and at the end of the day you know each cycle uh brings us very interesting New Primitives so you know if we were having this conversation you know five plus years ago cool we have some layer one developments we now have tokens that allow us to basically you know request that a blockchain stores or processes some data wow pretty pretty big innovation distributed database that you know doesn't need an intermediate really cool you know the next thing that happened were you know the erc20 tokens on ethereum which is like all the Ico booms and scams and some nons scams uh that happen over that cycle uh but that was quite interesting that was using a blockchain to issue another denominated piece of value pretty interesting Innovation we couldn't do a whole lot with it uh the next cycle we had ERC 712 and 1155 again I'm just going to talk about ethereum but a lot of other L1 chains have similar Primitives um and this basically said cool there's an ID and to that ID we can attach metadata that could be a visual asset you know that could be any kind of other information that we choose to attach to this token and so here you know we have the nft boom but what's interesting is that that could be anything that could be a share certificate that could be titles Diamond certificates whatever it is uh but still we need more uh and so latest Innovation this year um is a counter abstraction and so now we're getting into things that are actually useful for real world Asset Management so for example I can now have a wallet or a set of wallets in a portfolio that's owned by a group of people or programs that I can then transport to other ownership and that becomes very interesting for keyman Clauses that becomes interesting for delegation of authority that becomes very interesting for all of these other things that we actually legally need in the asset management business in order to do our day-to-day work and so you know the industry is all is quite young but just the toys to play with are all very very new you know we're probably going to have a conversation you know next year on the same stage about some new primitive that came out and they had enabled all sorts of new stuff to happen uh you know I think any smart wallet any wallet company that you are talking to these days is probably talking about smart wallets and Eon tracted wallets why because now you can actually subsidize gas fees uh and do Social account recovery you know this is all new stuff I mean imagine a bank you know saying hey you need to have a completely separate account every time you need to SP every time you need to send money you know we we can't actually do that automatically for you and so we're getting to a point where we're finally matching you know the retail capabilities uh to what we actually need stay with me Gary you're backed by Big Money big Abu dhab money Small Small Checks Big Dreams the Small Checks big dream okay but but nonetheless further Ventures is backed by adq which is an important Sovereign wealth fund within the UA ecosystem right which means that in a way they're actually an asset manager themselves and also you have access to many many big large asset managers and corporations so how do you see larger entities interacting with these types of innovation is it just more you know kind of a bottom up situation or is there real investment at the top coming down H so I I think because right now I'm seeing big Investments through you down going to go back up what's the situation I mean I I think the there's always the large announcements that you have large organizations corporations all over the world are kind of pushing whatever Next Generation technology blah blah blah blah blah but the reality is that to move I think the industry forward it's Death By A Thousand Cuts so for us it's you know our half dozen of companies that we launched so far making progress on you know moving Capital around and custody it it might be another half dozen companies uh you know by another mubadala or adq backed organization that is also hacking at the same problem uh I wouldn't be I wouldn't want to be in a position we're the only kind of homegrown custodian solution or the only homegrown broker dealer um that's operating here and then everyone else is kind of trying to fly in and get regulated uh we want as many Market participants as possible because that will result in you know cross trade you know between our various organizations so you have to build the guts first U that's that's kind of the answer to your question ish ish ish ish I'm not super satisfied with that but it's fine I I won can I add no no no it's fine let's see what Johan has to say because I mean you yourself you're the founder of a startup right so you've had to you know get Investments you're also connected to the ecosystem you're trying to convince people as well how do you see see big entities actually integrating this stuff if at all in a meaningful way well I think large entity needs to keep always keep the entrepreneurial mindset which is quite difficult and U there is many ways we have been collaborating with the a lab during the last six months for example so we had that is a big asset manager indeed we had this yeah we had this this this our community the 6,000 member of our community to work on their data to try to improve their internal modeling capabilities and we organize this around hackaton that's one way it's very simple you just organize a competition and you can interact with startup interact with the communities easier you can do Innovation Labs you can do um sandbox which is actually what you are also doing at adgm so yeah I think there is there is plenty of of of Avenue to do that and I feel it was uh possible here because The Regulators I think is the mindset of the regulator in Abu Dhabi is turned toward Innovation and not so much toward regulation which is most which is more the case in Europe right and these have been very supportive for for for uh for us to be able to collaborate with this uh with this with this with these entities thank you I'll take that as a compliment it is I mean you don't really have much choice where you are to say anything else but nice things but um if we can just jump back to some of the benefits of smart contract integration to Asset Management we say that it's going to democratize access is this something that's going to happen straight away or is this something that you see at more in a five-year term when these big institutions actually take it on so I I don't know if we'll disagree or not so I I think it democratizes it for professional advisers uh but not necessarily for retail and so by that I mean when you want to list a new product as an asset manager um you know you need to go through your own compliance mechanisms to make sure that it is okay to make that product available to your clients um and and then there is the entire onboarding process again between yourselves the administrators the exchanges you know the custodians and you know kind of all the participants required to make this work you know the idea here is that in the near future you can go and bu build uh a regulated fund on chain um and have it be fully audited and then I can ship that fund to your custodian or to your application uh or to the platform that you use to you know manage your clients or or family offices and you know this stuff isn't satisfiction uh you know there's a number of companies that are going through the application with the fsra right now that are going to make this stuff live and possible now um I mean that's how I personally don't hold any dollars you know all all of my money is on chain uh and I do it through one of these regulated products it's in a real fund it's spck insured uh and it works you know so we're we're in a place where the stuff is significantly closer than you think it is really okay very interesting any well I tend to agree with uh with with Gary we wanted a fight well okay there is maybe one area where you have very low uh you have this asset that have high uh uh um barrier to entry right because purchasing the overall asset is pretty expensive and fractionalization of this asset can be made in a pretty cheap way thanks to Smart contract so if you can fractionalize this asset and you can break it down to the much smaller unit of value then this uh will allow retail investor to access this safe investment without having to uh uh face this High entry price right and if these asset are regulated of course and if they are liquid I think that could be a great opportunity to access let's say buying a piece of heart or or or a piece of real estate or investing in that kind of that kind of asset so that in that case I see I see some that's a f actually I'm just jump because you're from France right and I I remember there was like in the last few years there's this big big ways of tokenized like or fractionalized real estate for small investors but then I think they found out in the last few year in like the last year that all the intermediary cost and man cost basically at away at all of retail's you know increments or profit so what you're saying is that if we had instead of having those actively managed real estate portfolios and we had completely you know tokenized it put it in a smart contract then those amounts would not have been eaten away yes you could have the asset issuer directly in in directly exchanging with the asset the future asset owner that could be the asset manager or or the retails if if he if he's buying himself but so if you remove all this intermediary then the friction of of cutting this asset in smaller unit of value which is very expensive right uh at the moment is is is possible I like that that's good I mean the other thing that's interesting is if you're buying a kind of more complicated product so let's say you are investing in a hedge fund uh or you have a specific strategy that you have deployed to uh and usually mean your fund administ trador you know or if you're an LP you know just the GPS will will be sending you a report hey we've rebalanced you know the portfolio this way um and you know you trust those reports and they're very long and you have you know it's Apex clearing or whatever that's sending you the actual trade confirmations you know what if you could actually monitor your portfolios and funds trading activity as it was happening uh you know because it's no longer happening through a GP a clearing house you know a trade execution piece of software inste of vendor but all of this is integrated and and there's a certain Beauty to that because now you know you know exactly what's happening inside of your portfolio at any given time so does that mean that you expect there to be brand a brand new business that's going to be built on top of this in order to monitor these for people because I can for instance the average person even myself I can't read what's happening through my sport contract even if I had money in it so would there be like are you saying that there's new businesses that are going to be created that's going to create a layer on top of that so that people can understand what is happening in real time uh yes and old businesses that don't die will convert to doing it and so today right and so today we'll already you know if if you're on the vendor side of this world right if you are powering exchanges or platforms or wallets you're already purchasing Chan analysis and elliptic and Merkel science and a lot of these tool sets that allow you to visualize what's actually happening with your transactions and try to attach that activity to the real world to real human to real legal entities um I think that there will be a lot of other interface created uh in order to facilitate you know reading you know just what is happening uh you know with this stuff uh by the way if a smart contract is Well written it should be human readable uh so if it's not well written um then you know it probably won't be but it should be very logical good point actually that's very very good due diligence advice now I want to go in to talk a little bit about regulation what you expect from your regulators and such but also because I know a lot of people have been talking about regulation the last few sessions um I'm not sure if I'm allowed but I was wondering if maybe anybody had any questions we can do one or two and then go back to the regulatory aspect if anybody has any only softball questions please for me he can get the challenging ones oh just if there isn't any that's fine I'm not going to put any on the spot no oh is there one no mic Runner someone run with the mic I'll come don't worry I am a facilitator so I will come to you with my mic hi uh how you think uh Asset Management Dey uh will be and what problem to stop uh um be bigger uh for these products I didn't F get the question I didn't fully understand your question so in terms of large asset managers what problem uh I mean for some of the larger asset managers uh is that you know if they want to really move a chunk of their portfolio over they might you know break crypto uh you know the the market caps of some of the assets that they that they manage are significantly bigger uh than than the industry and so we have to be mindful about doing this sequentially I I think that there will be a lot of pilot programs uh starting out uh and we won't see a wholesale movement you're not going to hear you know announcements unless they're going to surprise us I don't know of you know AIA moving all of their products uh on chain next year that would that would be immensely cool uh I think it will take quite a lot of experimentation and we shouldn't expect this stuff to happen overnight we'll be talking about this forever right I mean if if you think about it you know people have been talking about Market enabling infrastructure since there are markets and we've moved from paper contracts to digital shares to you know kind of all all the tool sets that we have today this is a better you know M strap uh but it's going to take us a little bit of time to build it and so I think we're not going to see a wholesale movement but it'll it'll generally be in Step functions I'm also going to add something I know I'm not the star here but I also want to give more of a regulatory perspective to that um evidently being an edgm with in the fsra we have a lot of fund managers a lot of asset managers that come to the center right and there has been you know exploration somewhat experimentation but right now the way the regimes are set out it's all functional which is why my first question was if it's not broken why fix it so evidently these sort of changes are going to take time because they also need regulatory approval as we look at ways to audit these smart contracts ourselves and also enable more real-time monitoring yes and if I may add something on on your p g I think it's U these technology are complex and they open countless new Avenue to um to to engage in transaction and to and to and to create new business models so they are interest L complex and I think the regulator is making this decision of incorporating also more technical skills which is very important to really understand this Tech before it gets uh completely regulated and if the regulator cannot incorporate these skills by keeping the proximity with the with the innovator with the startups it's a I think it's a good way to get a grasp on the tech and really understand what's happening and being able to to keep up with the base of uh of innovation in the field that that is that is really fast and amazing so I think I've gotten a sign from my you know from our boss saying that we can actually that it's time for us to go no or is it a question Oh yay go ahead so I wanted to ask that with the current market run since the one and a half last year and with the FDX crash and everything how what are your views on Complete decentralization because I don't think it actually exists well I think that's um this point is is is arguable I think human tends to overreact uh often right and being a decentralization maximalist is not I think the good direction is better to be pragmatic about what level of decentralization we need where does it add value and and where it actually destroy value so it's not a black and white and I totally agree full decentralization is sometime not an option and there is aspect about that where you want to keep sometimes intermediaries are good sometimes uh slowing down the transaction can be very important in terms I mean there is uh for example flash crashes that happen and having this uh system that can uh stay a bit slow and maybe even have hum sometimes to be safeg guardian of this of this of this mechanism is very important the vast majority kind of asmic to 100% of problems that we found in this industry stopped at decentralization when an organization just went like this to what's happening on the blockchain and just made up numbers and put it on an application uh and that really has kind of nothing to do with the fundamental infrastructure work that's that's happening uh you know on on the asset management level uh and you know I think every time we hear a big Core case I'm like fantastic this is great FTX was an incredible event because it finally forced investors funds and Retail to start thinking about insured and reg ated custody uh you know we're and yes you know let's talk about proper on and off ramps let's not just send you know a her earn money or our LP's money uh to a random bank account in the Bahamas not in the name of the company where we're supposed to be trading so I you know I I think all of these all of these cases are very very positive outcomes for for the long term so I I I you know I would say that that's a that's a bullish sign for me yes I agree and so thisas are the exogenous forces that can actually create a crisis and in complex System Theory um I don't know if you heard about the French School of econophysics and DJ seret is talking about this exogenous uh criteria that can create this crisis so sometimes the crisis come from the system it's not something coming from outside like FTX or this kind of thing this you cannot really cope with it this will happen covid-19 tsunami these kind of things will happen and may break the system now if it's coming from inside the system transparency is interesting because you can uh run modelization you can run tests you can run monlo analysis millions of tests trying to find the tail events that may have break the system so in decentralization you have before the centralization the smart contract that are completely transparent that will allow this simulation of of ta event scenario now we mve Rings also the cmary will accelerate the speed of the system if you accelerate the speed of the system system a small perturbation can create a catastrophe at the end because there is a cascad event that can then repo and and all the market actors that are automated are reacting super fast and there is no slope down possible and maybe I think that could be a part of the regulator you're saying if things go too quickly and something happens it can get blown out of proportion yes and and something pretty banal a banal fact in complex system can create the perturbation that can create in the fly yeah exactly so this could happen but having this slowdown in the system is a way to all this uh like I was talking this replicability of data that we be able to make sure that this data was not problematic was not wrong and because if you have single point of failure you have this wrong data entering the system it can repel in a complete catastroph way awesome oh sir you are going to be our last question by the way just closing it down it's raise your hand you we're we're getting the red flag they're getting the Rotten Tomatoes ready for us oh oh no thank you well I'll just continue playing Devil's Advocate and ask you how do you reconcile def's intrinsically permissionless nature with the need to license and regulate oh that's a good question so can I start this one even though I'm actually curious as to what guidance you will give us well well well so I think right now we're in an active phase of learning right we have to go around working with a number of D5 firms to see exactly how they function and ultimately who is the authorized person right so normally you give a license to a person they become the authorized person they have their internal checks and balances they have their own internal Frameworks and guidance that they then feed back to us that we you know say this feeds to our rules now at what point if it's no longer an authorized person and it becomes com s this decentralized method of code that's passing along who do we authorize who do we license do we license the code do we license the developer that's building this even though they're not the person actually actioning it with ter these are all questions that we are actually actively looking at um and though I cannot answer exactly what our thinking is right now because our consultation paper is coming out in two months um we do ask that everybody who's interested in this question you includeed because you wanted some guidance please do answer us when we put that out because these are questions we are all asking right I mean I on a practical level I I think that you guys will end up as a regulator as a much more active monitoring organization as opposed to kind of an audit and and licensing organization at at the end of the day you know crypto will get a lot of flack for sanctions avoidance and money laundering and all this fun stuff but it is exceptionally difficult to do it at any meaningful scale in D5 because every transaction is trackable uh and you can you can cumans SCS uh but certainly software can track basically every dollar uh there's a very good reason why if you go and talk to the chain analysis folks they'll tell you that even the more advanced mixers that are available to anonymize your transactions aren't all that Anonymous anymore uh and the amount of work that has been done to pair your on online uh and digital quotequote web 2 Behavior Uh to kind of problemistic guess you know who are you and in web 3 the work that's there is is quite Advanced and there's a number of firms that are you know selling to governments and anti-terrorists and antimony organizations all around the world today uh so the technology is there it's a matter of implementing it in a way that allows firms to integrate via API for example to a regulator so that we can be proactive you know as a community to deal with this stuff and amazing I we're going to wrap this session up um but I'm going to give the opportunity to Jean to give us our closing remarks anything you'd like to tell the audience well um first and foremost welcome to Abu Dhabi for some of you that we that are landing tonight um I hope you're going to have a great a great Salon feel free to come and talk to us it's amazing to be able to talk about this we are at the Forefront with decentralization we at the Forefront of smart contract and being in Abu Dhabi is really an opportunity as we have great Regulators supportive of innovation we have this is a capital of capital so in terms of asset management this is definitely a place to be and well I hope you'll enjoy your stay love it have a good one guys