Ethereum Swarm Workshop - Swarm Beta Event - How to develop unstoppable dApps on Swarm

welcome everybody um i want to welcome you to this fds hosted workshop in this workshop we will be talking about a lot of exciting things but you will also be able to go very hands-on by installing and testing out some new tools we are working on before we go to gregor's uh opening talk um i would like if this is possible for the attendees to maybe quickly introduce themselves because i'm very very curious um as to what kind of people we have in this um session there's some i know of course so is this even technically possible i don't know if it's possible for you guys to speak voidtag i'd see your name so i'll just start with you because i know you can use the can you speak or is this like technically impossible in a format it seems that it's impossible okay anyway so thank you for introducing yourself uh in the chat voytec is saying someone would have to enable me can someone enable um foreign to speak is that is that something we can do oh you have to raise a hand fighter please raise your hand now yes now you're muted ah hello hey how are you hi i'm good how are you i'm doing great i look forward to this workshop even more to the event tonight um we had a really cool rehearsal yesterday so i'm excited to do this tonight but please introduce yourself all right so hi i'm wojtek i'm from czech republic uh and i'm a long friend of swarm uh if one could say that i worked at iov labs where we were working and building decentralized storage together with swarm and now i'm fully focusing on some humanitarian projects with blockchain for humanity awesome we should talk about that later because i'm very interested in what you're doing now so thank you for your take is someone else would you like to introduce yourself so the idea is that you have to raise the hand that's you know by clicking a button antonio maybe you could introduce yourself it would be cool because i still have to get to know you better please go ahead well [Music] can you speak or this probably you can't speak because otherwise you would why why don't like everybody just raise your hand so we can fix this because it's not gonna be fun if you know if it's just a stalking all the time right so let's make sure that we can enable everybody this hello yes awesome so one by one please good and good i hope i am pronouncing this correctly yes you are yeah um yeah i'm uh i've been following the swarm project for a long while um very excited about this beta now that you're reaching this milestone it's very exciting time yeah and what are you working on if i can ask um well me and a few friends we've been uh doing some stuff like one of my friends and i we've been doing some streaming over ipfs before but ran into trouble so we want to try to continue that work maybe uh streaming uh video and audio and we want to build something that has well we need the incentivization layer for it to be scalable i think uh but yeah hoping for to create maybe uh a more fair music uh streaming platform um we're both artists or of me and my friends we're all artists so we wanna have we want to get paid a little bit for money for our music maybe uh well getting paid more than you get paid on spotify is not hard yes i heard all about it i heard that spotify is even like producing um their own music like for instance like piano music for restaurants so they don't have to pay artists right so they have their own composers and then they just buy this music it's it's just horrible i think as a practice so thank you so much jiren um maybe some uh see you i hope i'm pronouncing these names correctly please correct me if i'm wrong dixon if i am correct i think we will also be hearing from you in the event later tonight yes um you're correct with the with the pronunciations yeah and uh i work with the personnel project in japan and it is open source personal data store from fujitsu and it's a kind of ict company it's a infrastructure company and um i only heard about uh i only i only heard about swamp from my friend my friend from my data global church from data's fund so he invited me to do the uh the prototype integrations and everything so thanks a lot and uh yeah that's it awesome thank you um i don't think shirt is here right now but we will of course be seeing him tonight at the event um jakov yeah hello can you hear me hey how are you yes i can hear you yeah uh hello i'm from croatia and i work in a small company there are seven of us called shard labs and basically this is my first contact with swarm but i had some experience with ipfs which is a bit similar uh we are working uh right now on a project for ethereum called sourcify where users and developers can verify their smart contracts and then i was thinking about using swarm to save those verified contracts in decentralized repository i think that would be a good good case for that that would be an awesome case yes yes absolutely it's so much fun for me to hear all of you you know speak about what you're doing this like it's all it's so much fun to be amongst like-minded people um okay uh gerharth's team camp or here at steam camp i don't know how to pronounce this you haven't raised your hand oh now you do awesome get out please go ahead hmm i don't hear gerhart um so i'll just go to the next person so if you have introduced yourself can you lower your head because it's starting to get confusing for me um oh yes awesome so get out if if we have um audio it would be lovely to to hear what you do anyway so we also have uh david or david greg ross john emanuel baliba i think it's french mauro pierre and rodrigo um if you want to introduce yourself raise your hand and if not we'll just you know continue um with the workshop i see still still see her and you are from south africa amazing um so you sort of probably also speak the same the the netherlands what is it the suta free counts um yeah anyway rodrigo yes can you speak please rodrigo no rodrigo uh is this because the their audio is not enabled like um gasper or miha can you tell me you know is this on our part or is it something in the on the client side so rodrigo says he cannot unmute himself uh can you hear me yes now we hear you hi rodrigo hi hi uh well my name is rodrigo i'm from brazil but i'm currently currently doing my phd in norway university of stevenger focus on distributed system protocols and my interesting swarm is to learn more about it because recently uh i likely got a found from a grand transform to develop uh application for this one grant the email the centralized email services that we call it wago yeah so we are working on that idea and swarm for me is very promising in this area because of all the research behind you know like this is not just a product you know like it's it's a lot of research involved in the area so i'm very interested in so so this was the proposal where you where you actually try to implement a quite old uh thesis where people are basically responsible to store their own email and their friend's email is that correct yes the idea is from daniel bernstein it's from the late like 20s 2000 uh the year 2000 and uh the idea is to inverse the logic of smtp servers so it's not the receiver that need to keep the emails but the senders and if you have a storage like that centralized stores you can kind of easily achieve this thing but you have a lot of problems around and our project is intend to solve this like this is what we are working on yes i i read the the proposal let's say i found it very very interesting i'm looking very much forward to see you build this in a prototype probably right yes okay so let's now i think we can go to gerard steenkamp which is a name that sounds very very flemish but he's probably not hi can you hear me yes ah fantastic uh yeah it's uh where are you from from south africa but yeah yeah my name is afrikaans very similar to flemish i guess yeah so yeah i'm a junior developer just uh entering the blockchain space so this is very much an introductory sort of video to video for me um yeah my boss recommended that i joined the webinar so thanks for having me i already like your boss so i don't know how to pronounce it um is it possible for you to unmute hello yes can you hear me yes okay so i'm i'm jaime i'm i was born in cameroon actually i'm actually currently living in paris uh i've been following the project swarm for years now almost from the beginning i've been playing with the previous versions i have a bee node running right now my hope is that um tron can change the way we do data in africa and i really hope that we can have a decentralized infrastructure to manage the data and help small companies and individuals to own their personal data okay welcome and um it's fun i think you're french speaking right i mean yes i'm french speaking the thing is cameroon have been colonized by uh british and french so we are quite balanced most of the time awesome um okay thank you jean if uh someone else we i think we have some new people oh nicolas you i mean you have to introduce yourself i'm sorry i'm not giving you the choice um this is nicolas by physion and you in the previous uh swarm alpha event and nikolas um gave a really interesting demo um nicolas can you mute yourself if you feel like it of course if not i mean i will not further push you to talk he will try okay so if if anyone else still wants to introduce themselves please raise your hand and if not lower your hand if nikolas is not a model we still have tomorrow hello okay so another french-speaking um interesting people pierre nicola please introduce yourselves so i'm nicola i'm currently the cto of vision and some with pierre with a founder and a radiologist and what we build is a decentralized hydrology system so basically we are using a swarm and the blockchain to uh to create a teleradiology platform so hospital will send over swarm image from the patients to the radiologist the radiologist will send over swarm in the report and we'll take the report inside the hospital and we are currently in the three different uh continents so we are managing a lot of data from different places and we've been doing this for no one year of production with like now we have maybe like uh 20 000 percent we have made over a swamp so it was a big adjustment for us yeah i think it's amazing so just to point out i think is this is one of the very very first and only uh offering for a few projects that are actually live using swarm um and i think your use case is like spot on i mean it it's it's like advertising for um it's just it's like advertising for swarm basically so um maybe if we have time this workshop is supposed to uh take uh 1.5 one and a half hours so i think we might have time at the end we'll see um because then i think it would be really interesting for you guys to you know have like five minutes to explain uh the projects you're working on um okay so we so uh let's see greg ross says that he can't talk right now but he's listening welcome greg i think we do we have oh and sure it's her chart maybe you can still um also just say hi oh he's gone already okay anyway i think we almost had everybody i think we didn't hear from mauro but um please you know if you still want to talk raise your hands or even during you know this workshop if you want to speak just raise your hand and we'll unmute and you know let's let's make this as interactive as possible i i'm all for having a dialogue um let's get on with program maybe we have sort of a structure to present you uh this this this afternoon um first up is um gregor gregor is um a quite well-known thinker and organizer in our space and is responsible for i would say organizing and sort of leading uh swarm's efforts and he is also the founder or at least one of the driving forces behind ferdinand society um gregor if you are here i certainly hope you're here please can you annute and show yourself i'm i'm here michelle and i'm showing myself oh god i love that background yeah so so do you have no so um i want i don't want to spoil it but gregory is actually sitting in his office but it's like a really boring office right yes so you know we could we could do like this you know it doesn't work it's too big of a green screen you know so this is this is how the illusion breaks did you did you actually attach the green screen on your back it's like wings yes yes no that's true something like that it's this is from our tech support it's a mobile mobile green aura slash screen okay you have to sit still because at the corners i can actually see your again their office yeah so anyway so yes so um so gregor promised me he would um do a little bit of talking on the ethics of course we can open this up to a discussion i'm gonna mute myself and stop my video for a while and give the floor to gregor please go ahead so uh hello everybody it's uh really good uh to see such a cool crowd here thank you michelle also for the introduction and yeah this i guess it's the first official fair data society workshop which is quite exciting before we start on the coding side uh it's maybe a bit of an intro about fair data society uh the way how we see it is essentially that fair data society acts as kind of this layer between the tech and the social and if we speak uh uh if we speak about developing depths or applications on top of swarm uh we should we believe we should also address uh how exactly we should actually build them or uh it could also even be said like what should we build and in this way what we mean is uh we can we can maybe for starters say we know what we don't want to build we don't want to build uh another internet that repeats the same mistakes that we are seeing today so um this this may be uh one way one way uh to look at it today i'm going to use uh i'm going to use actually uh slides uh the uh that i originally prepared for a talk at a non-con conference in vienna and uh these slides uh i will use them sort of like just that we kind of keep uh keep the red thread but um in in essence first is the idea uh that we touch upon the ethical side uh and why uh so let me just share my screen and please uh everybody feel free to to interrupt it's like if you would be if you would be in person in a sharing the same space now i hope it would be like more of a discussion uh i guess it's a bit more difficult over um so um let's start now we all know we all know and uh the world has has changed a lot in the past times so not just not just now with uh the pandemic situation but uh we've seen these dramatic changes also happening happening before um it's also the awareness of these changes is growing these days there's the social dilemma documentary trending that highlights some of the things before that we had the cambridge analytica scandals uh and there's bound to be also some new things coming out and happening uh one other change that it's also being quite facilitated by in the current situation is also that the virtual has become the place to be this was actually the case already before when we saw uh how the virtual is starting to shape the behavior in the physical when we see people going to a concert uh just to do a selfie at the concert not to enjoy the music last year uh on bali uh the most popular touristic tour was institute so they took you all around the bali in eight hours for the most instagram worthy sites uh to make best selfies and basically you fulfilled your mission of visiting body so uh and now with this push of social distancing uh lockdowns uh our lives basically moved into the virtual and yes this on the other side what we in some circles we do speak about it but in mainstream i would say we still don't speak enough about it is uh also connected with the data aspect and for kind of every aspect that we have today there's there's an app for it uh moreover uh we also have uh we are seeing now uh the proliferation and uh how many amps are being developed uh and at the same time converging into one uh for content tracing for example so while well measures are needed it's also what we see what we see around the world around the world we see that uh it's really kinda also you know here i call it black friday for creating a surveillance state so uh we see a lot of new laws being passed and these laws have like one or two articles that don't really have to do much with the current situation except for exploiting it so uh there's been a lot of talk how how in a way also the current situation is being used to restrict our liberties and this is definitely something that uh we should uh we should keep keep in mind um at the same time we should also think about like what is going to happen after and here here i'm not referring just again to the covet situation it's uh when we build depths this this is probably one of the most important questions that usually is not asked uh often enough by by the developers themselves so when i when i build a like button what will happen after that uh and uh when i when i build the retreat functionality what will what will happen in this way will i create angry mobs on uh on twitter uh will i uh create the tools to divide the society etc so what will happen after uh should be one of the main questions i would say that we need to ask ourselves even before we start building the app now to come back to this was kind of more to provide a wider context but at the same time we will be using um in the next minutes uh basically contact tracing uh as a as an example how how to think about the principles uh how to how to how to approach an ethics by ethics by design so how can we start with that with thinking about the user uh with trying to think about what could be like the un desired side effects and how how to prevent it and the first thing that starts in this space that we speak about it is actually synchronizing around the notion what actually personal data is so here here are many discussions ongoing and it's hard to say which one is the right one there is not i would i would argue there's no ultimate uh ultimate uh answer because it also have it also is important uh what kind of values stand behind what kind of culture so in this regard for example we see a very big difference how europe is approaching personal data and how usa is approaching person data we see very big difference also how japan within their information banking industry are approaching personal data and this is a lot also enabled and determined by the culture itself within the principle the first draft of the principles that we prepared within the fair data society initiative it starts with sort of the prime directive that personal data is us meaning it might seem maybe at the beginning counter-intuitive but a simple example would already give like uh today for example if we lose our phone a lot of times we won't be actually set because we lost our phone but we will be sad because we lost the content on the phone we lost memories we've lost photos we lost we lost part of ourselves so uh in this regard from the ethical point of view you know it's uh it can be argued uh if somebody comes and steals my phone did they just perform an ordinary theft or was this uh an assault against me so where did i actually get hurt more and this is something again it's like things like this are important to think to have in the back of the mind when we are designing and thinking about the apps that we want to do um why so if we adopt and subscribe to a principal like this it becomes clear that uh in a way uh we should design systems that maybe don't enable uh on the user experience side a very easy monetization of data especially not personally identifiable uh information so uh so this can then guide us that we think about uh when we create data marketplaces that these marketplaces should actually address only anonymized data data that doesn't expose the individual and uh and in this way we can we can have like a defined scope of its effect on the other side if we would develop an application that enables very easy monetization of let's say my facebook data do we really know what we enabled do we really know what kind of repercussions this might uh cause in the future for the user itself so maybe they they had like a very a small short-term gain but what happens in long term and this these are like the things to come back to think about what happens after it would be said in a in a way an ironic way could be also if we let people monetize their personal data in a such an easy way uh you know on one side we might be thinking oh we are creating a platform that gives power to the people that uh helps them to reclaim their privacy and they can create new revenues uh we are creating a platform that you know improves privacy but are we really if we design a system that incentivizes that users sell our data we actually then created an engine against privacy and this is like where where the we can find like this small catch okay if i can quickly interrupt you gregor yes i think feytuc uh wojtek is raising his hand i don't know if it's on purpose or not um but i'm quite sure i had like a little chat in the first workshop oh oh voytech you you lowered your hand that's too bad later on i will ask voitek um how to mitigate what you're talking about gregor because we had a little chat in the in the first um workshop that i find very interesting so please go on so i don't i don't see i don't see if anybody raises a hand no he was raising his hand but then when i when i said it he didn't raise his hand anymore so i think it was you know not on purpose so sorry to interrupt your talk no no no no it's great it's great it actually feels better that and doesn't feel like i'm speaking into the word i like it so please please do it more okay so yeah so basically what we what we are coming for and this is again you know so if i can just interrupt you for is this too early this is too early right no this is true no no no it's good please go on so so basically to sum it up in this sense it's like uh one other way to view uh to look at the whole situation is uh so yes let's we need to think about what happens after but also what are the building blocks that we are using and in the digital age that we have now we could argue that uh freedom begins with truly owning our personal data and this again informs our design decisions in how we make the depths so let's speak about the the principles but before maybe before i start to go into the principles themselves uh a couple of things to provide more context um i think it was plato who said it in the republic uh how how does a democracy descend into tyranny how do you how do you make that happen and the answer is do nothing so if we don't do nothing we will see we will see democracy descending into tyranny moreover uh it's like what plato also argued is uh that basically a society we need so-called moral overarching truths so we need to speak about what are the virtues what is what are what are our values and uh here as a disclaimer uh this talk is not meant to actually promote the values itself but the concept of values and shared shared having shared values that's why we also that's why here you also see that these principles are version 0.1 they are meant to start the conversation and uh that as community uh we along the along the way we determine what are actually the our shared uh shared principles moreover uh the theory uh and philosophy teaches us that if this this moral overarching truths are missing or if they are not defined we basically get into trouble so um a bit of a primer on democracy a lot of times with democracy we are thinking we are thinking that stands for freedom freedom is the ultimate value but if we frame it like this then there's actually no distinction between democracy and tyranny one could argue that the tyrant is leaving his own freedom to the fullest extent what what what the nuance details become important is and what what the somebody could argue what what democracy actually is democracy is about respecting uh freedom of the others in this way if we frame it like this then then uh democracy in tyranny become very incompatible but however here again we have like we are facing another problem we are facing the problem that uh it's uh uh to defining uh to defining this freedom and the and the virtues so it's uh it's not a clear-cut case because respecting other people's freedom means also uh that everybody can have like their own definition but as a society we should be educating ourselves on this and we should be engaging in this kind of dialogues we could think about like the dialogues like in ancient greece the philosophers just came together and and they discussed discuss these things so another important thing is um and this this reflects to the situation that we have today is that uh if we speak if i speak about my own freedom valuing my own freedom comes very natural to me it's like i feel it throughout my body but respecting some freedom we in a sense means that i will also make uh i will also adapt to this maybe i will restrict my behavior based on that for this to come back to plato plato said we need to engage reason reason is the one that transcends in this sense emotions and why is this why is this relevant this is relevant because if we are missing these higher principles if we are missing the discussion and clear definition of those then then actually we are experiencing a so-called ethical void in the society and this ethical void can be then filled up with in essence consumer capitalism messaging that goes on the lower emotions and we see the result of that we see is a society that is divided a society that is reactive uh communication uh in general that goes about triggering emotional uh response and this basically just goes into the vicious circle where it goes deeper and deeper personally i'm very worried about this and that's why we actually need principles with sworn uh and fair data society we do want to create a movement for social impact for social change but if we really want to create this we also need to align on what we want and a lot more recent example of this could be even seeing the the fork in ethereum uh there was no shared understanding no shared values no avenue of governance uh and addressing these questions and we saw that there was a group of people who believe scottish law and a group of people who does not believe this and we had a split and this in a way is maybe not the ideal way to proceed so i took now quite a lot of time explaining these things and i will just run through the other things okay yeah um you know i want to add or in order to say two things here is that okay yes please do as always i have an opinion let me stop sharing the screen so that it's nice oh yes yes yes i'll show my face um so so two things first off i shared with um our attendees participants a link to um a clip from a charlie chaplin movie which is almost 100 years old and in this end speech of the great dictator it's like amazingly accurate and these times the things that are being said so i invite everybody to to watch that later not now because we want to have your attention as as the attention economy goes and then the second thing i i want to say is like if you talk about like forking as um as a polarization or as an opinion i don't agree 100 because when you say there were people that believe code is law and the word people that believe it is not like that i don't agree with that i think i believe code is law therefore we should be able to fork the forking is in the is in the code right you can do this and so but that's just like a small detail and then also i really wanted to i was waiting for you to you know go into the the what is it nine principles that we have defined um you just maybe you can just quickly go over them yeah um yes yeah that's why they throw their plan and thank you for this comment no michelle thank you for coming this is exactly you know this is exactly how we need to challenge each other it's like basically how uh and this is where ethics in this sense also comes in because it's a social consensus it's it provides it provides a way to have a structured dialogue and uh not you know not start with ad hominems and strawmen arguments and things like that so thank you very much uh thank you very much for joining us and uh this is if somebody wants also to discuss these things please please just jump in so the principles here i think it's going to take a little bit too long for me to go through them in essence i would say they're quite quite intuitive for people being active in the decentralized space what i what i would rather uh maybe jump to it is uh that we see how we could approach with this and use it on an actual example and the actual example uh oops uh the actual example that i would give is basically let's imagine a contact tracing app or and platform as a solution it's been a lot it's been a lot being discussed about this and if we would create it aligned with the principles aligned with the ethos that we are promoting how would that look like or maybe even better how how would the process look like and we are just now running quickly through this we can we can go deeper if there's more interest so in general the contact racing system is made up of a mobile app it's made up of some backend and yeah and maybe some that ui for for the users something like that now here here are some proposals if we would build it how would we build it and uh we do feel that data should belong to the user there should be privacy the user should be in full control of data um they users decide who who gets the consent and it should be recognized that by using the the application the user is actually performing the job of data collection data gathering serialization etc so moreover how this data exchange happens this uh there should be protections in place and users should know uh what is happening with their data so um all these kind of should result in a human centric approach where we take the user first for example now we see a lot a lot of the conversations around content tracing apps are how they enable the health authorities to do this there is some talk about the value propositions for the users are uh that they will know that they were exposed uh or in contact with somebody who has the virus but uh it the messaging in this regard i would i would argue a secondary and of course it's like we want to have verifiable code we want to see it we want to see open source and we want to we don't want to be a victim of so-called vendor log login now comparing if you use now these principles these principles actually going one by one through them and we see now this in the second column they guide us to basically uh how how we should design it and in this regard this is where we speak about ethics by design when we think about okay what are we doing what are the what are the constraints how do we want to treat the user uh which are the principles that are that are guiding us um the proposed solution then the difference would be of course you know to think about this is just a mock-up this is not a serious project in this sense it's more a thought experiment so uh we could then imagine that this desired solution that confirmed uh that goes along with the principles would be self-sovereign id a mobile app with local anonymization may be running locally also some zero knowledge proofs uh personal data store integration so the data that i save and i can backup is stored in my personal data store um it should be a private uh file transfer data transfer and uh at the same time the data that is submitted and here here may becomes a big also bigger bigger change to the narrative that we see in the mainstream should be transparent and publicly usable so we could imagine for example here here comes swarm as this great technology that enables this is let's say i have as a user this kind of app on my phone but the research at the same time shows that uh most users mistrust the the government so they they're not sure what's happening with data they have privacy concerns and uh they're afraid that uh their data will be manipulated or even used against them so with swarm which one i could basically i could anonymize first okay this is not swarm so i could first anonymize all the data on my device and even before i would upload it to swarm to a public data set i know the hash of that data so in a way it's very similar to what we are experiencing within the blockchain uh space when i when we go to ether scan or any blockchain explorer to check the transaction the hash in a way serves uh also uh to to verify that the data that i've submitted the same data ended up in the public data set and this can be verified by anybody for the data they submitted so we a society what we can know then is we can know that that data holds true we can uh with a public data set anybody can as in open source can check the calculations the recommendations and uh at the same time we have we see transparently who can use it and how they can use it this is a quick so this is a quick rundown how these principles and why should we uh should be considered and i would actually wrap up here uh thank you all for the attention and uh michelle back to you okay gregor because i was just thinking like you know the more we talk about these problems the more depressed i get but then luckily there's always someone like dan who is talking about how we can solve all this through code and technology and even i would say even like interpersonal relations because we are talking a lot about interoperability of of data and apps um but to me like the most important thing i'm focusing on the last you know year or like inter inter relationship stuff right it's like making sure that we all are sort of aligned or are thinking in the same kind of way that we define the the problems together and actually all in our own way try to solve them because the one of the weird things about this space is of course that of a decentralized piece is that it attracts people who like to work on their own or on their own projects so i'm totally agreeing that if we can make sure there's like a shared belief system and a shared problem definition that you know that we can actually use this as a as a force right as something forceful yes and also just you know that we as ecosystem we we recognize it's uh some developers might not really be interested into using principles but uh on the other side you might have activists or philosophers or other social scientists who are and they can make they can do the job to help the developers to do to do it easier because at the end of the day i would say that at least the big majority of developers wants to do good we want to all to do good apps and from personal experience i see that speaking with many developers in the blockchain space it's like there's a lot of enthusiasm let's make something work the it's this engineering enthusiasm but if we are building unstoppable apps that are touching the humans we actually need to put this extra effort to think about what we are actually building and yeah just this discussion around you know yeah yeah okay so i think most thank you so much gregor for um for bringing up plato um dan uh how lovely to see you um so this is a workshop so i am actually i'm looking forward to not having to type code today but to just watch someone else do shell scripts and stuff like that and technical demos um so oh yeah before we go to you dan i'm so sorry a quick interruption um so we have a really cool telegram group um which is called the swarm orange lounge and yes the spot on i loved our stage manager so if you scan this qr code is that even possible does this qr code look so weird so anyway so we have a telegram group which is called the swarm orange lounge and um over all these events we have been doing and and you know talks and workshops we have asked people to join this because this is actually sort of the in crowd kind of telegram group where we share everything that swarm or furniture society has to talk about will be shared first in this telegram group um also this is where you will find like-minded people um sharing sort of the same beliefs um so please join this also tonight with the swarm event this is sort of is this this is like um i don't know sort of a backstage or like a room where you can just um give feedback on everything that we are doing so dan hello good morning or afternoon i don't know what time it is in in in the uk right now but is it still morning it's almost like just after actually yeah it's all good thanks so much for that gregor fascinating as ever to hear about the ethics behind fair data society um sorry to disappoint michelle but i shan't be typing in any terminals for you but instead but we can look forward to seeing zoho do that a bit later on okay um yeah i'm just going to very briefly kind of give an update of where we're at with developer tooling how we're thinking about things and introducing the new ideas um that beta especially release brings to the table um so the history of um development on swarm as i'm sure some of you will notice that it's all kind of like based around this monolithic http api we're now moving over to a different kind of paradigm where the the delineation of that will be slightly different um there's now a chunk based api http api so the we're moving over to a situation where we'll be building the actual binary data of the chunks um client side and then pushing that into the network at a chunk level and we're in the process of doing that so rather than fee having feeds at the um effectively server level of the b proxy we're now starting to build javascripts tooling to enable that to be done at the client side and this is going to start to enable some of the high level functionality that we've discussed in the book of swarm so i think give you a quick tour of that for those that haven't seen it um so the book of swarm is available um through our website and various other communication tools and there's a whole section on what's called higher level constructs that discusses the different approaches that now we can take to building applications in this decentralized space and it's actually gone quite deep and um explains a lot of the intricacies of like how these two paradigms do fundamentally differ for example here's um an example of the um the aggregation procedures this like something because all users of swarm own their data and will cryptographically sign it with only their keys we bring this new kind of idea of having to then aggregate all of that from a trusted source into a single feed there's a bunch of other ideas are expressed as well with the single owner chunks the universal outbox this is an example of how in the swarm wells messaging kind of gets built differently ways you won't have like a monolithic server that holds all of this information instead you'll literally just create the single owner chunks push them into the swarm and then later on we'll aggregate them and there's the layers and concepts on top of this like for example this is swarm chat one of the more elaborate diagrams in the book um discusses this idea of preemptive um checking to see whether specific single owner chunks have arrived at their destination now when we create a single in the chunk we determine the exact address of it and how that lives in this warm address space by increasing a nonce lands uh an index um topic id rather so once we know this topic id then we can assume we can start to increment the indexes and preemptively look for the chunks before they even arrived so here you see for example a sending a message and then b checking to see whether it's arrived before it even has been sent you know we pre-emptively set check the chunks in front of time to enable this like low latency communication now the the reason i'm mentioning this is just one example of these exotic and interesting development paradigms that we can start to build on top of so as well as single owner chunks now in beta we've also finally got a api for whisper pss messaging so you'll be able to check that on the docs when we release them and it's in the advanced section so where now you can actually subscribe to the topic and then wait until um one of the another user sends a message called the trojan chunk which will arrive in your local store and then um only be only seem to be anything other than normal traffic after eating yeah dan and can i ask you i mean i don't want to like totally interrupt you but can you maybe go a little bit more into detail because i think first of all we should say this is like brand new and also can you maybe a little bit explain what this trojan messaging or i don't know the exact term means what that means yeah absolutely and the the there's that very explicit um detail about this in the in the book of course and trojan trunk is um essentially a special construct of data that's built in such a way that the um the address space happens to land within the nearest neighborhood of your node and i realize there's a couple of other concepts that people may or may not understand but essentially every node in swarm has an area of responsibility um of the total 32-bit address space we'll have just one section of it which essentially lives in our nodes local storage and our node is then responsible for um serving those chunks to the rest of the network or it's partly responsible for doing that and um the idea is that we use um cryptographic nonce here which is random which when encrypted or when hashed using the bmt hash ends up giving the address that lives in your area of responsibility so the trunk arrives looking like random traffic like any other chunk of encrypted data but then once you receive it you check to see whether it fits this criteria based on um you know probably a private key encryption which we show you you can decrypt and and in the case you can decrypt it then you get the messages it's exactly the the um idea of whisper but then just implemented on top of swarm and hidden in the normal traffic so you can't even see it's a message let alone decrypt the content this is why we call it zero leak yep so that's that and then there's a totally new uh functionality at this point but as i say the api will be exposed and excited to see what people come up with around that um it it essentially constitutes pub sub system running over swarm with zero league there's a lot of opportunities to build applications on top of that similarly with the um single chunk thing with him where are you just scratching the surface exactly how that works and i'm excited to see what people come up with further to that at the moment we're starting to look at um developing our javascript tooling i'm actually just a very enlightening conversation with one of our star developers he's starting to scratch the surface of that we've got proof of concepts that work and work well so we're just repackaging those now and refining the api to be able to release something hopefully for swarmlive and then further so that we've also got the fair data society layer on top of it and which is essentially a software development kit uh there is a proof of concept version already that runs on the old swarm client we're looking to we're in the process of actively moving that over to the new swarm to be rather the api is uh very similar in terms of continuity it should be if you can build it on swarm then for the most part you can build it on b there's some very minor differences and um we'd love to hear people's experience of transferring their software over and be able to respond to that um but yeah it's so that if you're interested you can check out fds.js github repository and the fair day society you can see it's got kind of like high level stuff create accounts send files this messaging system is encrypted and we also interact with the blockchain there to enable discovery and firesockets to be able to implement your own contracts and so on and so forth um in a lot of ways it's still quite primitive but we have like worked on it we've built applications on top of it quite a few the flagship one is fair drop which you can see it fair drop xyz let's be your software but it works well to create accounts send files and so on and then this is totally decentralized it's like it's on a it's it's it's served up using web 2 dns but actually that all of the infrastructure is on swarm down to the last detail so that's kind of where we're at at the moment and it's very much watch this space um but also we love to hear from you guys developers that want to build stuff on swarm what do you need what use cases have you got how can we make it better and yeah just get in touch with us so with that i'd like to throw it open yeah so so uh i have a raised hand um um from jean emmanuel um so sean please feel free to unmute yourself is that yeah hi hey hello hi hi i'm not quite sure this is the place for the question but um i understand the the server neighborhood is nothing geographical meaning uh yeah so my question is um how does that affect the available bandwidth in terms of i mean if you are somewhere and your neighbor is somewhere else and there's a problem with boundaries in between how does it work how does it affect the traffic so there's um there's always redundancy in the network and that will increase as the network grows so the um the bandwidth latency is effectively another layer on top of this so you can you can refer to the docs but there's um a topology endpoint in the debug api where you can see in detail exactly which peers you're connected to and actually i guess the iep traces to work out where the their ipm points are um if you want to see like geographically how they're distributed but the idea of it is eventually that you know the bandwidth how you this time in which peer you'll request the chunks from and also will be also partly to determined by the um the ping between the nodes so there's also in the book it talks about kind of like speculative um parallel um retrieval so for example say you had like five beer five peers five pairs in bin five and you wanted to have a chunk was it within their neighborhoods then you could even send five requests at once and the first one that came back you would pay for um in the bandwidth incentives there's a small charger also for requesting it but um a larger charge for receiving it if i remember correctly so it it's it's mitigated for and then um does redundant it uses redundancy in network okay thank you did that answer your question sean it did yes awesome are there any other questions around app development and so it's the title of the um workshop so i'm happy to answer anything yes [Music] please unmute yourself yes yes uh yeah i was just wondering if you have any idea of when we can start to expect to see maybe some sort of light clients um coming along um and also support for other implementations in other languages so because well i for one am looking forward to trying out to build stuff that uses light clients on android um ford apps um because yeah well most people in the world have have you know a smartphone but not necessarily a computer so yeah in in java well kotlin but yeah it's basically well if it's java then then then it can compile but of course i've played around a bit with you know ethereum uh and uh making gobind having go bindings to ethereum clients on android it works but you know it's it's a big uh binary to deal with yeah so i think i think the the road map for this isn't fixed at the moment but um the the first step will be to build something in javascript i think in terms of building in new languages um unless unless somebody somebody is particularly interested in doing that and comes along um there's been a has been a successful uh compilation on android of the big client i think so actually it seems to work on android right i'm sure there's a lot of pain points there with the light clients and certainly on the roadmap somewhere but it seems to work yeah that's and actually you can get very far with just the htcp api um the the concept of the light client is um sort of still being defined this was swarm it's very nascent area of research in a way or something that's been on our radar for a long time but the exact nature of the implementation is going the details are only kind of like finally coming to um to like now so actually it literally just got off a call where we're kind of like putting down the finer details of it so um i can't say anything about time scales but watch the space okay yeah uh cool i just wanted to know because it's it's interesting to to also for a developer to at least build up an idea in your head around how many years in the future we we will have to wait until we can see stuff of course uh well it's always unsure of course but when we can start to know that we will have something rather stable that we can put in the hands of people that have smartphones yeah yeah absolutely i'd encourage you to um have a look at the http api or talk to me offline about exact use cases and um help us to inform what that exactly that should be but i know i hopefully it's not years plural okay thanks okay so another way maybe that's i think i find interesting to to kind of mitigate this light client um problem is um by uh inter like using that node so i've been using a depth note to run my p clients to like even run like front end dapps running on top of this be client um and just by connecting my phone to a vpn i then um can access you know all my stuff in a decentralized space i think for now i mean it's of course not like a solution for you know for like the mass public for now it's an easy way to at least develop stuff on top of um well i like this paradigm too and also if you're if you're running a node at home then you've also got the opportunity to have increased trust around any blockchain nodes that you're using and and uh of course um make money maybe is easy yes yes so i also want to welcome victor you were lurking through idina's account so but uh how lovely to have you here um so if if people have questions for victor throne if if dan was like earlier showing very complicated schematics in in this kind of thesis book that's what victor basically wrote so if you have questions for victor please go ahead rodrigo is raising his hand so rodrigo please go ahead hi i have a question about the trojan chunks imagine a situation that they're going to send encrypted message that is bigger than the size of the tank because i saw that you are a slide that's like 4k right the size of the tank so how i could aggregate many trojan chunks i i should put them in the same manifest or something like that like imagine that i want to send for you a message that it's bigger than 4k and i would like to use the uh trojan chunks functionality to to do that so yes then i think it's good if you now if you then like sort of start by explaining how how chunks work and how they you know a lot of chunks make up like data or maybe if victor wants he can talk on it i can answer this so so in principle the the trojan the trojan handlers so the pss subscription basically it subscribes a handle handler to the to the message and it can have an application logic which the format of the message contains a reference a potentially encrypted reference to the to the content that's that you actually want to send as a message okay basically you can just you can just send around the reference or references and then the client side and they would only know where to look for the encrypted message itself thanks so basically yes yes basically just for initial contact and further messaging you can also use feeds perfect yeah yeah you can check out the um the documentation under encryption i had to use the b client to set encrypts and then send them receive the reference then send that over pss okay thank you so i don't see any more raised hands um dan um do you still want to add stuff or do you feel like you've reached sort of the end of what you wanted to talk about yes yeah i think so i mean i'm just just trying to give everybody a bit of a teaser really it's um it's a very active time at the moment for this development and there's a lot of stuff going on in the background so please get involved yeah especially if i think i think if people here are interested to to contribute or to you know participate um it would be lovely just reach out to us in in this in the orange lounge um i think maybe that's probably the best place to you know to get started um absolutely and then also for light clients i've i've i have been lurking in some groups in like swarm chats uh here and there and i think there are many interesting ideas um i see sort of the same stuff come back as what i saw when you know we were trying to think about getting parity clients going lightweight or you know doing stuff like that it's sort of the same problem um only i think that um swarm s has like an easier um job right just to solve this in the light client i think it's just if i would agree with that um you don't agree with that um i don't know um i mean you don't have to keep like the whole consensus state on a device at least right so i mean to be honest i'm not really that familiar with the the details of how they implement yeah anyway so i just want to say like if you're interested in contributing to this not only with code but also just you know give your opinion please do that we are you're very very open yeah oh god yes yes yeah and we also you know we really believe that we should do this together like the more people that will work on this together um you know the the the better the solution will become and and the more um it's not even about better it's like it's like we have to make sure that we built this in a way that that it covers like all use cases even the ones nobody has been thinking about yet absolutely absolutely and we're at the fortunate um stage now where we've got the bandwidth to actively support people that are interested in building applications on the software and even respond to specific needs so um this means ground side right just to to call a cat a cat is that an expression but like you can apply for grants as well with fair data society but also with spawn yes yes maybe some exciting grant application information later on announcements maybe yes so um yes so we can round up your segments dan thank you so much for being here on such short notice i think you did an amazing job thank you so much absolutely and i'm i'm sick 32 and also again matamos so just ping me if you have any questions thanks michelle thank you um so i i i think this one is important sorry sometimes i'm gonna just interrupt to do some housekeeping messages um before we go to sahur because i've seen you you have turned on your camera a couple of times i know you're very excited but wait just one second here um i just want to ask our stage manager to show the principles website uh that we have for fair date society so you know you have greg already spoke about this we have made this little web page principles.fairdatasociety.

org where we actually go into detail of the principles now this is just like talk or like something you can read but we are looking for something more importantly we are trying to get at this society to have as many participating members as possible so if you agree to these principles or if you want to change you know whatever you want but can we are looking for people and projects to pledge to these principles to actually actively say like if i build my dap i'm gonna take into account these principles and i'm gonna make sure that um my dab is like fair data proof uh so to speak so if you feel like you are building something that is fair data proof uh please tell us so we can add your name to a growing list of projects and people who are pledging to these principles thank you so this was a sort of uh housekeeping is finally gonna show code but and and typing in terminals and stuff so i've been looking forward to this uh very much um sahur has built the last four months and not a couple of weeks as i said yesterday so the last months he has been building on a file system that lives and runs on top of um swarm and i was super and like literally super excited to see this because i think he enables um a lot of apps and people uh he enables a simple thing like file system we have known this like for years it's like a very normal thing but to do this on a decentralized platform is you know it's just amazing so um take it away and show as much terminal as possible please are you muted okay no i can hear you thank you no i i'm not i'm not okay thank you uh i'm going to share my screen um just give me a second where is this yes so yes so i'm going to talk about fair os pharaohs is is actually a project which was done under fair data society umbrella my name is zahur i work full time in swamp and do normal stuff what swamp developers do but while doing that we were looking at things that how we can help uh you know the developers who want to build stuff on top of swamp to make their lives much easier and i would say this is one of the outcomes which came out of this i'm going to jump and skip few slides because i want to spend as much time as possible inside the terminal so what i say fair os is is actually you know the major portion of i mean what fair os does in one single line is that it helps uh it helps application developers who wants to build on top of swarm their lives easier by abstracting certain things uh exposed in swamp we all know that swamp is very very very good at exposing the basic fundamental blocks of web3 uh file system uh it is very good at things like having uh you know like singular chunks uh uh uh or i mean like having very good protocols that actually help in spread these information across the network and and and and and so on so forth um but what we wanted to give you know a few years ago like three or so years ago i built something called as a fuse file system driver on top of the old swarm client so which helped is swarm to which helped the swamp file system to be mounted under a normal uh linux client so this is like an extension of that idea but here we don't have fuse and such things we have something called as ferrous dfs layer uh whose basic thing is to do certain uh stuff of and abstract and and make the lives uh as similar to as what people are generally used to in web 2 world so that you know it becomes easier for them to you know transition inside web3 uh you know like things like user management uh and very importantly logical drive management that you have the a place where you can store information where you can um where you can go and point of your applications uh and say that it is there in this path and you know like things like that to do permission management to do automatic uh payments management like if you upload a file uh you have some kind of accounts through which you know your you will be you know charged and all these things again all these things still use the same fundamental structures that is actually provided by swamp but exposed in a slightly better way so that it is easier for people uh to do you know like uh certain things on their applications now the applications can be like uh like you know like web3 oriented apps or they can also be like slightly you know you know traditional webs web 2 based uh big data systems so this is like the major uh thing that we have did and we exposed things uh i mean information is through you know uh apis and through i mean a rebel prompt and and we are planning to have a data driver also you know something like sql driver and other such drivers right and have access to you know index structures different file formats in which you stop and things like that so these are not really core to swarm but it will be good to have uh by a dab developer uh that if there is you know something if i say that you know let's say if i have a decentralized um decentralized counter for example if you know every time i i you know like somebody presses a like or something like that i just call increment and it just increments i don't have to think about feeds and single owner chunks and all these things right so this is what it it it actually eases now i'm going to actually go into two demos which is going to actually show you uh what can be done with this one is basic introduction about the pharaoh sdfs and another is how do people share between uh you know files between two users in fair os dfs right so um yes let's just go to this demo um i'm going to stop share and start share with my terminal yes i hope you guys can see my terminal so um yeah so what i have here is i'm going to run a b node um go then the start uh and okay so there is a config file which is nothing but which has the basic stuff there is no boot node in this one because i'm going to run something in my own machine unfortunately i could not run a boot node outside so that people can also connect and do this demo along with me then b you start b with the config and say this is my config file and b starts here let me i think there is a new new stuff that has come so that's the reason why yeah so i have started b in my local node and i'm going to start dfs dfs is also a go program and uh it is there for multiple different platforms you can go and download i i'll show you the link so if you just press dfs uh it shows you the different uh commands and one of the command that you can use is prompt which means it will show you i mean a rebel and you could i don't see your um dfs prompts maybe it's only on my screen i don't know um uh you don't see my dfs prompt no i still see the config one [Music] a terminal window but maybe it's just me if you can let me just share it once more [Music] because i can you see that now um yes yes yes v4 i'm giving the b port as 8080. so these are all default things i'm just giving them here just to make sure that um data directory i'm giving temp uh dfs node one so yeah so this dfs is actually connected to the b now you can see in the system how many users are there user ls so there is already a user alice i'm going to create a user called bob user new so there is a help here so if you if you actually forgot you can come and type help so you have user related commands you have something called a spot pod is nothing but uh it's it's actually a drive a logical drive a user can have multiple parts so i'll first create a user i'm just creating bob so either you can provide your own mnemonic or it will create mnemonic don't worry this is in the local machine so it's not a problem you can store this mnemonic uh in future we want to introduce external signers like ceph or like ledgers or other things like that so that the demonic is not exposed outside so now the user is created and the user has been logged in so you see the username here um and there is no part right now so you can create a pod pod c drive you can create as many as you want you can create a d drive whatever right so now you can create different directories inside the drive and you could um directly to so you you can actually see the directories now i think there is a go src github jmu's fair os demo i have the executable here so the same executables just to be on a safer side make sure that i use the user login bob so i log into userbob now i do a pod ls i see two drives i i can open into uh i can just open a pod just like how i do it so you see the directory you can you can create as many directories as you want you can upload files from your user jamos you can upload the file from your local directory from your local file system into this file system and you can say false are true which is how i how i want to say whether you want to compress this entire file or not this 10 mb is what you say it's as a block limit [Music] now let me check what is that i have here so i have users did i put users or no that's a problem so um i keep this and when i say 10 mb this entire file which is close to um this is like 156 mb so it will be like split into um you know like 10 mb blocks each why you do this this is very similar to how uh swarm splits the file into smaller chunks this is split into bigger blocks uh so that later when you want to give this to any applications to do large scale processing it's easier for every instances of the application to pick one block and then start processing independently and parallely so now if you see the file is there you can see the information about the file by seeing big stat stat will give information about the file like what is the account which used to create the file which part it is there what is the directory blah blah blah and it will also give what is each block the block name the blocks um swarm hash uh so as you can see this this one is large hash so everything is encrypted by default inside so all this information is present like a very normal directory so you can uh you know like create a file upload a file whatever right uh and similarly you can you can uh download a file um let's go into dir you can download the file uh big one dot x to temp uh slash uh to temp and uh it's downloads it there right so now we can do a diff of temp slash big one with the big one here so it's the same file right so uh you could upload and download files you could uh you could actually share these files with others and and and so on and so forth so i'm gonna go to another demo for which i'm going to show you a video because it it will just save us some time uh by which which is like if you want to um share a file with others uh how do you actually do this so uh i hope you can okay so this is the same terminal that i shared i'm sorry so i'm going to share you this quicktime player i hope you can see my screen so you will see clearly you will see four terminals in the screen the top two the left and right are the two b's uh i form a small network inside my system itself uh so the b on the left is b1 b on the right is b2 uh so b2 b1 is already running b2 will connect with b1 and uh the bottom two nodes are like uh the left dfs node the left one in the black terminal is the dfs node one which is connected to b1 right dfs is going to get connected to the top b2 the top right b2 and i'm going to share a file from a user who is there in this dfs to a user in that dfs right so uh i just start this so i created the second configuration i'm taking the i uh the the boot node value and putting the first node as the boot node value and going to start the second b node uh as soon as the second b node starts you can see that it is getting connected to the first b node uh wait a minute yes it got connected to the first b node and i'm going to start the second b which is in the 8081 port so i'm just showing there's no user i created a new user called bob i created a part i am creating a directory so there is nothing in the directory now i come here on this side left side um and i show that there is nothing in the directory too i'm going to upload a small file there called call commands this will get uploaded to the b that is there on the top and this will get propagated to the other b also so once it is uploaded i will use the share command to share the file so i am getting a shared file reference so this is like a swarm reference but a reference that is very specifically uh to do the sharing of the file and once this sharing reference is given to the other guy through other means uh so what they what he can do is that he can use a command called receive info and this shared info to see before receiving the file what is all this file about right because he should not just import a large file or he doesn't want to import those files and once he's okay he said receive and gives this hash and gives the directory in which you want to receive it so once he's done he could see the same file in his in his part and he could do the stat and there is a command called cat also so he could see the contents of small files so it is available in the other user so uh using this way it it is like a totally stateless system dfs so all the state is stored in swamp so you don't have to take any state with you so you just have to go to another new terminal just open it and if you are new to the device you enter your key and all your data is available there right so uh all these things are there in uh in our uh this thing also that where you can go and see inside the demo uh just give me a second i'm gonna open this demo yeah so um you have this file uh so yeah so this is like um the main links that you want to do you you can go to fair data society fair os and you can see documentation about what pharaoh's is all about much more detail fair os dfs we are releasing the alpha today uh the website is ferrous drive oh there is an api gateway api.ferro is that i also you can interact with the apis and all these things and there are a lot of documentation videos and all these things now as i wanted to show you uh like with this one you could actually build a lot of applications on top our very good very great michelle has already built an application on top of ferrous dfs that's called fair drive so i want to show you that too very fast i want to share my screen and share my browser so i hope you can see my browser so what i'm going to do is that fair drive dot io is where he has actually hosted it uh actually actually it's app app.fair drive dot io so you will you will be greeted with uh uh this thing if you don't have an app i mean if you're not already signed in since i already signed in uh it is just suggesting my name uh and i'm gonna do something now which is like so maybe you can open it in a private window uh i just uh give my this thing and you could see my fair drive documents here of you know some movies and this and that and you could upload all all of this and um you know it's like very same thing uh my folder sorry my folder and i can do create a folder so inside my folder i can upload file very similar to how how i can upload all these things i'm gonna upload this demo of here and this pdf is available and if you want to share this i can click this do a download or i can come here and do a share of this like how high how i actually showed you inside the terminal you could do all the same thing here but this is like a drive so this is all i wanted to show you uh with the time that i had uh back to michelle and if there is any questions i'm happy to take it yes thank you so much sahur for showing all that so uh for our attendees as you can see it's very much possible to start building on swarm like what sajor did and i've had a lot of fun building an interface on top of [Music] pharaoh's the most exciting thing we didn't of course talk about which will be that dab developers in the near future will be able to use fair drive or fair os as an engine to connect their app with the user's data space so to speak so we can make sure that um you know this would be like this is gonna be like a very helpful uh tool um to abide to the fair data principles so um victor dot i hope i'm i'm pronouncing this right victor maybe you want to if you feel like it you can ask your question um you know life are you still here yes if you want you can just unmute and ask your question if not i will read it so okay so the question uh sahoor is how does the encryption work for the drives of different users so how does it increase files does it use a common shared secret if yes can i download the file by only um by only using the client and the shared secrets without a dfs user so so uh you know do you understand the question yes okay okay so first of all i would like to say that uh you know every user has its own mnemonic and using that uh every part is created every part has its own key pair generated using that same mnemonic so uh i cannot see into your part you cannot see into my part number one number two is when i share a file that i have uh with another user what i do is that i create a i mean i create a new key pair for this transfer and i encrypt the files metadata the with that and i created uh a specific reference which has the decryption key and all this logic there so what you saw the sharing reference has the way uh for the other guy to create the key uh to or to to extract the key pair again so it can be only shared with that guy with the other person for now we we are not really checking that for now the sharing is like uh whoever has this link can open this file uh but later we are going to add it is there already inside the metadata we are going to add uh i mean a logic which says that only the file who who who to whom that i actually shared can only open it even even if it's there in swamp only only that user can decrypt it and can look at the metadata and in turn can go and look into the files which which is uh which he shared right so um yeah so this this is the uh the thing that is there um i hope i answered your question so for it for anybody just uh you can encrypt files only for themselves so so if i unclip something uh currently i just can decrypt myself nobody else uh you can decrypt yourself also but if you say that i want to give to person a and i say inside the metadata that only person a is supposed to read it only person a will be able to decrypt it uh because you know the metadata not give that to any other any other person because the the the key will be embedded inside that okay and this is thank you so um i think if you if you want to learn more about um it's it's a it's uh i don't know if victor tron then still is with us um because there's an interesting i think a very interesting problem here of course our holy grail sahur is also to have like shared drives like what you would have in google drive where you can just add like users or remove them and i if i remember correctly on page 14 of the book of swarm there is something about oh god what was the name again i still sorry i can't say it correctly in the correct terms but it comes down to uh encrypting stuff posts i have to look at anyway is victor strong is still here hey dina no so no edina so i'm sorry we but you can read all about it so i want to thank you sahur there are no more questions as far as i can see um thank you for this i think very comprehensive demo and explanation um so yes we'll see more of sahur tonight at the event i invite you to tune in to that it's 1800 hours what is it our time zone are you still here yes uh i'm so happy okay it's about extra thing c e s t so you can actually have to zoom in a little bit or come on screen because your green screen is doing really weird stuff me and you this is still because this is okay it's a little bit silly anyhow um so gregor what did what are your thoughts until now i i find this uh i find this uh very exciting but you know it's like of course we are biased uh i think uh i think all these things what we also in a way started to guess across is basically how uh within the fair data society initiative we try also to just kick start the tracks that we see relevant uh for the ecosystem to move forward faster for developers uh uh to not start from scratch implementing some basic elements such as you know when we are speaking about fair drive it's uh there are many exciting depths to be built uh on swarm and developers in future can just easily you know connect to fair drive they have the back end part for the user in this way sorted out but even more the uh the vision is that also devs can then access also rich data from the user in a privacy-centric way so i find this mega exciting because for me it's like this the new world in the making and it's also exciting uh for me on a very just personal basis you know i see like a lot of very interesting applications coming out ai based applications but i just don't want to use them because i think the hidden price of this this kind of solutions is just too big it's this new shiny toys but with efforts like this uh we can actually you know create a free digital society in this sense um so yeah this this i think it's cool um i see we are also uh running basically towards the end maybe what we can also say for today is uh that today uh at the at this one uh beta event later uh we will start uh grants a new round of grand call this will be going on through october and it's definitely uh i think people here uh giving that uh thank you for all your time and uh attention i think you're the prime candidates to actually apply for a grant and get get dirty you know get like hands-on experience on swarm you know like uh in this sense so start building exploring yeah it's exciting well thank you so much gregor um okay so it's maybe 10 minutes early but unless i see raised hands which is totally fine i mean we we have ten minutes but i'm also quite happy um to round it up here because um well the actually the oh how can you reset the password of app.fair drive that i i will i will you know maybe do like can you create an issue at the github.

com fair data society um i haven't done that yet so i just rushed basically made some prototype codes to to show off um fair os in like a front end but there's like tons of features missing and it's and it's actually it's another production um ready app so you could if you want you can just do uh log in as another user or you can just um like totally delete your local storage and then you're you know fine to to go again um but please create an issue and then i hope other people will join the effort in building something interesting on top of this it's just a react app so it's you know it's like quite simple to contribute to um so one thing i wanted to say maybe is that i've been thinking a lot especially after seeing this movie or documentary the social dilemma i've been thinking a lot about you know what can we do to mitigate this current dystopian situation we're in where my attention is being sold right to the highest bidder and so i was i am inclined maybe as a technologist you know sort of to think in technological terms and i thought like maybe if we incentivize you know like having your own data and keeping your attention etc this might solve stuff but i'm sort of getting convinced that you know this is not the way you know we might be creating even the opposite because if you are like me if you have been in crypto for a while you probably know the phenomenon of i bought a coin and now i'm looking all the time at how i you know what what is the performance of this coin you know you go to the to your app you look at trading view for instance and every hour you need to know what is happening with the token because it's sort of like a judgment on if you are like a smart investor or not and i think the tokenization and even like creating you know the incentives etc might even make this whole addiction and attention problem even bigger so we have seven minutes left so i would love to close this um meet up and invite everybody to just have like maybe a small meditation or a moment where you try to get your attention with yourself and focus on other things than technology crypto and all this stuff because i believe that the only way we are going to win this war with ai bots who are trying to compete for our attention is by actually hacking our own minds and you know know when we are spending what kind of attention and giving it to who whom and not giving it away for free like we're doing now i think our attention is very valuable so i won't take more of it and um i want to thank all the participants you've been an amazing club and i hope to see you guys in the orange lunch and i hope you tune in tonight uh to the um to our event it's gonna be a lot of fun so thank you very much and now i'm gonna meditate for five minutes see y'all bye-bye