Class Actions for Societal Harm - The Silicon Valley Backlash

[Music] well that's fantastic walk up music it feels very Star Wars so Marx Let's uh start with you I'd like to give um each of the panelists uh a minute to introduce themselves talk a little bit um about their practice and then we'll get into some of the specific so Marx why don't you kick it off thank you Troy my name is Marx lion I'm a lawyer based in Amsterdam at the partner at the brow um I have been actually uh practicing law and litigation for 30 years um for a couple of years at Kath in New York uh and my practice is very broadly both arbitration and mass litigation um in in a broad field including big Tech great thank you suen um hi everybody so I'm swen I'm uh partner who hates the international arbitration practice of Wong partnership is a Singapore Law Firm um it's headquarter in Singapore we have offices across in China asan Middle East and um for my practice as a senior counselor I have a very active councel practice before the Singapore courts including the Singapore International commercial courts I'm admitted to the RO of England and Wales and also um before the DC courts a large part of my practice um in addition to my court litigation is in international ption very delighted to be here great thanks wean and Jamie hi everybody I'm Jamie Levy I'm the senior advisor to the ab investment office um for me the general Council of the ab investment office an m& and private Equity lawyer by background um was also the general counsel badler uh for many years across Aerospace defense ICT healthc care and other areas um and I sit on the board of the UAE Australia Business Council also so have a vantage point on International Trade uh between uh the UAE and Australia uh where we just celebrated the signing of a Seer um under the leadership of the ministry of economy um thank you very much for the invitation today to participate in the panel and uh thanks for teting it up uh so violently I think Troy when you said they're in the crosshairs and it's a tech attack so looking forward to it well great thank you all and uh Jamie why don't we start with you I finished up the master talk by previewing kind of this multifaceted attack on big Tech and emerging Tech the litigation side the regulatory side and then how that's impacting in your space investor decisions the money that's coming in i' I'd love to get and I'm sure the audience would love to hear a little bit about what you're seeing on your side of the world as a non- litigator um how pricing is working how your clients and your partners are thinking about this multifaceted attack on Tech sure sure and as you you eloquently set out it is a complex area uh which provides massive opportunity for litigation financing and and and claims um that was articulated it provides huge uncertainty um in relation to to those of us who are both using products who are investors who are advising Regulators um who are or who are in the sea Suite of these big tech companies themselves um I think if you're an investor a regulator a consumer um at the moment in this particular area you've got questions you know if you're a parent um uh and I'm sure there might be a few parents by the look of uh the audience um who also has questions on their mind about you know big Tech and safety um it's a it's a Confluence of many issues that we see and I don't think at the moment um we have a lot of answers but we know there's a lot of opportunity here as well um just last night and and this morning I guess you would have also seen the Invidia um antitrust related uh uh announcements made so I don't think it's necessarily just a matter of the crosshairs of big Tech focusing themselves and their defenses on class actions it's Regulators it's governments um it's investors that are all going to put pressure into this area on big Tech and it'll be interesting to see the response um we're seeing big Tech investors um have the queries you mentioned and perhaps we'll talk about some of those later in the panel but we're seeing big Tech too need to change when they see um you know regulations in Australia for example released around limitations on age access of 16 to uh to to social media platforms um you I was at the dinner table with my children just recently talking about this and my 16-year-old daughter just just told me it's it's great for those um who who are going to be caught by it but but I'm 67 on Facebook um and uh and so the way in which you actually Implement and see these regulations implemented is going to be a challenge so parent I thought to myself there that's great I think we've solved this one for the younger kids for a while and now I realize they're older than me on their Facebook accounts um so implementation I think is going to be quite an issue as well um the antitrust point that we mentioned I think you've got uh Regulators around the world that are going to be putting a lot of pressure on Deal closings so we'll talk about investment but investment being subject to big uh CPS that result in potential elongated um processes uh potential uh regulator um uh avaricious attitudes that are going to be I think more prevalent are going to create a little bit more uncertainty and so investors as you say when we invest into big Tech may be looking to repon warranty Insurance maybe looking to some products and services that uh that we'll see evolve in the m&a space uh which will be quite fascinating to see um but but would agree they're in the crosshairs uh and would agree then that for those who are in the litigation financing space um with a hugely growing pool of capital somewhere between 10 and2 billion Rising 10 to 30% a year chasing after not just um the most deep pocketed area of the economy which is always a great Target for a for a litigation financing strategy but a strategy that now seems to have had a little bit of certainty put into it by as you mentioned those those 30 attorney generals that themselves are Paving the way for and identifying with big red flags those companies that they themselves will be seeking action against um and so it's an interesting time for for both the financers who are are going to find great profitable opportunities for for Tech and then for those of us here in AB attracting the leading tech companies like the ab investment office we promote we attract we facilitate and we do so with big Tech every big tech company um on the planet's either here or in great discussions with us and we know that proactive regulation and we know that the environment here the very business friendly environment results in them wanting to be here and we know that with The Regulators here are also quite collaborative so this also is a great opportunity for Abby to make a contribution to the global conversation well that's great I know a lot of us are going to be watching how Australia's uh under 16 legislation which has gotten ahead of most countries in the world is implemented there's a lot of skepticism among the lawyers as to enforcement but it does show how politicize the issue has become as well and you're now going to have uh countries and states and other Federal authorities getting ahead on the legislative front of the law while the tech on a minute-by-minute basis continues um to evolve and the legislation takes longer to catch up um as we talk about catching up maybe uh Marx maybe we'll start with you I spoke a lot about the US litigation hotbed and where things have started maybe you could talk about the metrication of IG Tech and emerging tech class action and Collective action litigation in Europe in the UK and then San will talk about a much more limited uh uh uh set of uh litigation in in Asia yeah thanks Troy I mean it's it's it's it's famous it's a famous saying that um uh if I want to speak to Europe who do who who who who am I calling um I'll try to be the other person at the end of the line although I know my my limitations in this respect I think it's quite important as far as Europe is concerned to realize that Collective litigation is a new phenomenon uh relatively new uh across the board um and it's been rising very very quickly uh I'd like to distinguish be between the UK and Continental Europe in the UK it has risen off of the competition appeals tribunal uh which deals uh generally with competition issues and there at present uh basically over 30 billion pounds in uh big cases pending against big tech there are number of limitations uh in the UK to that um because outside of the competition area it's not really possible so a number of these cases are sort of forced into the competition angle even in the UK I would say generally we have not seen yet uh any of these cases coming to verdicts um and that tells you a lot I mean there are many many procedural hurdles that are being discovered and also substantive hurdles to these big claims um if I just give you an example which is not straight from the big Tech area but there's been a very famous case uh pending uh between Merck and MasterCard which is the biggest in England uh representing all users of of MasterCard which is a 20 billion case um two weeks ago there was an announcement mid trial that that was going to be settled that 20 billion case which been pending for 9ine years for 200 for 200 million uh and now that has led to a very public spat between the funer and essentially the client uh who thinks it's a good idea uh it's not really clear why that's being settled for that amount um one can assume that a very very large amount uh part of that amount has actually already been spent in litigation costs it being very expensive to litigate in the UK um but there's Clarity that there's reason uh for the claim it to go from 200 million to to 20 um I think there's a general similarity there with the continent uh the continent is has been a place where litigation and was very far away from what the landscape looked like in the United States uh the European continent used to be not very litigious at all uh basically tradition was not so much to litigate but to resolve things amicably um that changed if I go 15 years back uh we used to look in horror at the US uh at all these class actions and and very large settlements and verdicts uh that was something that there was Universal consensus about in Continental Europe that we didn't want uh it it it used to be frowned upon as something that got completely out of control um that's where we were 15 years ago now that has completely changed particularly in two jurisdictions one is the Netherlands where I'm from and the other is Portugal those are the only jurisdictions in Europe at this point in time that have opt out class actions uh which means that you can start a case on behalf of a class and everyone is caught unless you opt out that's a big Advantage a lot of the other jurisdictions have opt in class actions and that's much harder to set up what has happened um is phenomenal in the Netherlands basically has become a total magnet for class actions there are many many pending against big Tech all the big tech companies you know have big cases um and something changed and I think it's very important to realize there if I look at it and that that goes across the whole Spectrum it's not only big Tech it's climate litigation a case against shell that you may have heard about that maybe the next panel we'll talk about um and other types of Industries where one can say legislator have either not been able to keep up with developments which is mostly in big Tech or at a m as a matter of political disagreement uh legislators have not been able to actually produce uh helpful legislation to make it clear to companies what is expected of them um that creates a problem um and that creates a problem a vacuum that is being filled by very large class actions uh both against the government uh but also against corporations why is that a problem it is a problem because of the separation of powers um we see that as a big issue the predictability of these cases is very low uh and that's not the fault of the Judiciary but once the legislature and the executive don't succeed in creating a legislative and Regulatory environment that is predictable people are going to go to courts and courts have to take decisions that they would rather not take that fall straight into essentially uh unpredictability and political polarization that is a big issue there are many big ones um uh pending at the moment I'll give you one example just to give give a feeling for this in 2020 a case was started against Tik Tok in the Netherlands uh for six billion in Damages um what's the case Theory the case theory is about privacy um which obviously in EU um is a is a big topic given gdpr legislation which is fairly detailed but also not detailed enough to really be predictable as to what uh it would mean for a company like Tik Tok um and it's also related to addiction now what does it claim it claims for every user of Tik Tok in the Netherlands which are Netherlands is a small country uh that are 4 and a half million in 2020 um it claims essentially emotional distress has damage because of this violation of privacy and um and the violations of essentially the addic The Addictive effect of it um and that adds up to six billion now my children who are teenagers actually love this litigation they love Tik Tok uh but they wouldn't object to actually getting ,500 uh in compensation for their emotional distress uh this case has been pending for three years now and has not acrossed the procedural hurdles of admissibility of the foundations that started it and class certification it's going to be pending for a long time because no one really knows either substantively or procedurally how to deal with it um it's a very interesting phenomenon I think in Europe there is a similar activity now upcoming in Portugal which has been later to the game in terms of opt out class actions uh but we have dozens of them for a very small country very unusual and is very threatening for companies uh but also as I said for the polit uh politic politicization of the Judiciary than that's very comprehensive thank you um suen we had talked about much more limited scope uh in Asia but interested in uh your take and kind of what you see coming down the pike if if not now over the next 5 to seven years what are the possibilities for the Asian market and for attacks on Tech uh in the litigation context in in your atmosphere well thanks Troy very much for that question well it is a very big question when we talk about big Tech because Asia as everyone knows is very big continent um so when we look across the landscape as to has the US Playbook on class actions and against the big Tech has that really find this way in Asia and if we scan across some of the key jurisdictions like China India South Korea Singapore as one of the key financial hubs and where a lot of the litigation take place you have not seen that growth as much but you already see the start of such litigation one of the reasons that I would say um it has taken a much slower Pace in Asia is again I'm making this a very generalized statement as I said Asia consists of many different count countries a very large continent but um there's a general perception of um it being a less Lous Society so even if we take a look from Singapore we don't have this concept of a class action the best that we have is a representative action and representative action house that different from a class action is representative action is an op in which means that you need the consent of each of the plaintiff you then have a represented class and you can then represent thousands hundreds depending on what consent you have so because of that um in fact um what the court of appeal in the 2013 case which I argued before the court of appeal they said the criteria is not difficult to satisfy as a representative action you need to have a common interest and then a common grievance but the problem with getting that is that precisely because it is op in there is always that difficulty in securing the consent across the various plaintiff groups so in China you likewise have this op in action when you come to South Korea um I think one of the most interesting space to watch as you know South Korea is very um is in a sense um really at the Forefront when it comes to technology and has very big companies there is that um a lot of the class action talk and the possibility of class action have Arisen from like what uh Jamie mentioned regulatory authorities action so how you see this class action evolving is first the regulatory authorities actually imposes um sort of finds on U um for instance in um in Korea I think it's a company called NAA Nava and it's a search engine which is a platform which um gives the search and tells the consumer which is the entity to go to to purchase this particular product it's the same way that Google does this algorithm but the algorithm is meant and deemed to be anti-competitive because it pushes itself as the shopping platform and the go-to shopping place and as a result of that it was was found guilty of anti-competitive practices and now what's come from that is a class action from consumer writing on the decision of the regulatory authority to then say I've suffered loss and damage as a result of this and I can see this um evolving and this being um done in the same way in India again um there was a cyber hack against a crypto exchange and um the individuals then suffered from it and the um and the Indian authorities found it guilty for not taking taking enough steps to prevent the Cyber hack and as a result of that the consumer then writing on the decision of the regulatory Authority then went on to start their class action so this is a trend that I see and um you will see more of this in Asia you know Jamie you've worn a lot of hats including a general counsel hat uh at one point and you think about emerging Tech as opposed to Big Tech which is well established has hierarchy you think of emerging Tech where um the legal advice that these companies are seeking from their in-house counsel and their outside counsel is what are our risks in connection with our evolving technology at the same time they're facing data privacy issues hacking and ransomware issues things that are affecting not just big Tech and emerging Tech but other companies as well when you think about the general Council perspective what are the types of issues both on the acquisition investment but also the investment in R&D and the like what are the type of things that you would have been counseling client your clients on as they look at this very litigious landscape for some unknown period of time thanks thanks very much Troy um I I think it would be a longer conversation with most of the executive now that it would have been perhaps 10 years ago when particularly when we look at the acquisition cycle we would see a fairly binary approach to um if we're going to buy into a company what are your current claims against you let's try to size the prize of what that might look like by way of a liability and price that in somehow and perhaps we come back to some of the wni insurance products or other bans indemnities Etc but we can we can size it but as Marx just uh very very articulately outlined there some of these claims are going to outlive a reasonable investment period for closing a deal and so I think going into a deal now you're going to have to consider that a feature of the transaction involves potential reputational overhang for a lengthy period of time ongoing regulator interaction and perhaps um uh fine and and uh related penalty discussions and that you may not be able to price your full uh full liability in so I think the uncertainty there requires um emerging Tech and investors to actually turn to governance uh and we look at the ESG implications for um uh how emerging Tech needs to needs to look and feel to institutional investors it's sophisticated from a governance perspective it's understanding that safety is primarily the most important piece of the consumer experience whether that's safety in relation to data whether it's safety in relation to the addictive nature of gaming and uh and and certain sites uh and certain big Tech products um and I think that's where again you know an abub uh perspective here is is that safety is a very important piece so for those of you in the room who were in The more battle of for on Saturday it was the primary subject of the generative AI discussion it wasn't necessarily about let investors focus on regulator action preamps and uh and and trying to to work through deal mechanics it was about let's ensure the products the companies and the approach in AB has a safety first approach and if you look at mgx for example hundred billion fund um that will invest into many emerging uh you know Tech uh opportunities as well as data centers and generative AI the entities around it whether it's g42 core 42 for those who know these entities pre-site Inception the artificial intelligence regime here is is going to be governed and overseen by something called the advanced technology Research Center which exists now and is is is is doing a wonderful job in overseeing this to support investors to understand what does the regulator think so I think for us here in Abu Dhabi we have a um an A A an advanced manner in which both regulators and capital is coming together to support investment into emerging tech companies but to also ensure that Investments that are being made here um have that safety first uh respect and so as a general counsel or former general counsel I'd be advising the m& team and Advising the investment committee that gone to the days of thinking you know like uh the tobacco industry for example that you know these particular class actions are going to be one and done or that we can settle this uh and move forward in a in a in a manner that um was perhaps a little bit more certain I think we have to understand that even with responsible um Forward Thinking and future proofing governance you're still as a big Tech and emerging tech company traversing a very uncertain and dangerous environment from the litigation perspective you could be World leading but still be um as we've said in the crosshairs of uh of litigation financing who see the Deep Pockets of the sector as being absolutely worth a continued and long-term shot at um so consider yourself under Fire and the best strategy for when you're under Fire is to to Future proof uh so they're going to need to get ahead of themselves and if you're the general counsil of one of these entities ESG data privacy um and your ongoing proactive collaboration with your head of audit your head of risk your operation operational risk people you're going to find much closer collaborations there to try to identify where's the bump in the night coming how could our industry be um and and our sales be subject to a a large claim what would that do to our business and you probably find that your relationships with leading law firms and your funding requirements um where as a general Council asking for a legal budget is always a bit of a difficult ask um kind like asking for Christmas presents after Christmas no one really wants to say yes to um but these uh these CEOs really acknowledge now that part of progressing my business and having that Innovation mindset that they need to have this kind of break something move fast attitude that existed 10 years ago and perhaps even some entities now will'll have a very strong legal governance oversight over it as well in order to ensure that break something and move fast doesn't cause unsafe products in the hands of consumers with the 30 or so attorney generals in the US identifying what a great company for us to start going after and the litigation financing entities seeing profit um in in uh in keeping these companies perhaps honest and I think that last piece is also an important reflection on what it is that these um claims are going to do to to some of the companies it it really means you have to be thinking through um a scenario where you where you assume it's coming and you are becoming not you're you're you're preserving your Innovation but you're doing so in a manner um that allows you to U be on the front foot with Regulators have a a very solid documentation Trail as to how you innovate what you've done what your testing uh regime was like how you monitor any potential damage and what mitigation actions you take but that probably means larger risk compliance legal functions within what is perhaps not uh naturally thought about in in the context of such Innovative uh companies which produce products which change our lives and which we all rely on um you know jumping off of the point which I previewed and you made earlier on litigation funding and the fact that litigation funding like water will fill any crack any void in the uh in the industry and because of the sheer number of potential litigation matters across the globe going after big Tech and emerging Tech Marx um it will be interesting to hear kind of the European UK perspective obviously in the UK lot of litigation funding um Collective action funding where possible what are you seeing in in your region uh from the standpoint of the funders driving the agenda of copycatting the attack on big and emerging Tech in the US to kind of metricate it West starting with UK and Europe yeah I think the the short answer is uh that Playbook is exactly the same there's an enormous amount of funding available um not only in the UK but a lot of the UK funders are very focused as well on on Continental Europe as I as I said not because I'm from the Netherlands but basically also in the Netherlands it's it's uh you you can find it everywhere um and funders drive this agenda to a very large extent interestingly one needs to realize as well that there are basically purely commercial funders um but there are ALS there's also a lot of funding for public interest type litigation climate type litigation um uh so there there are huge amounts of money available um and as a general matter I think litigation funding can be a good thing because it creates access to Justice I think there too there's a bit of a problem at least in Continental Europe that there's no proper regulation uh around you know disclosing interests and and basically Behavior and the influence of funders on on the strategy of the case versus the interest of the client um but it's it's plenti available and and it's clearly um one of the very significant driving forces against uh against the cases and and particularly the noncommercial funders also Drive let's say a a even more politicized type of type of strategy which in a way is good but also is worrying around the separation of powers and the pressure that's sets on Democracy you know it's interesting the um in the US there has been a recent in the last few years uh push back by some courts on litigation funding and litigation funding disclosure and the the reason that many courts have started to require mandatory disclosures of funders is because of patent infringement and patent troll litigation the potential chilling effect on Innovation and making it more costly uh to innovate within not just Tech manufacturing and and chemical as well um but there has been this push back so hearing that um you know there is this tension in the US where the litigation funding Market is enormous new money coming into play cost of capital being what it is you want to get that money to work as soon as possible and you're looking for the next opportunity the reaction to the litigation funding Market to some of the dis closure rules in the patent space are likely going to find their new crevices in uh big Tech litigation and some of these big addiction and related litigations um Swan I'm going to ask you an unfair question which none of us can really answer but I think you're best situated looking ahead 7 to 10 years as the litigation against big and emerging Tech continues to emerge generative AI becomes more and more in the crosshairs with data privacy concerns loss of autonomy protection and safe applications as Jamie was speaking about what do you see generally it doesn't have to just be in the Asian legal Market what do you see generally as um maybe the next Frontier of litigation against big Tech and emerging Tech um well tro you mentioned generative Ai and I think for generative AI one of the biggest issues that they face is that um it is as good as the data that is fed within it so when you look at the fact that the generative AI really Builds on the data that is given and then from that produces a product the natural question and it has really been litigated in many courts in many of the Chinese courts U the internet courts in China is also been litigated in India also in South Korea um the question is is there any copyright infringement so the copyright infringement claims against big generative AI um companies is is is there and that is definitely going to grow we just recently had a most recent um India litigation where one of the biggest news agency went after um chat GPT we went after them for the very fact that um all the data that's CW is actually from the news agency and the question is is there any copyright infringement and all these cases are ongoing so I think things which are linked to this aspect of um copyright infringement is definitely going to be there the next aspect which I think um is really big and it goes to the point that Jamie mentioned about safety first and the kind of um litigation that can be brought about by the consumer as a result of the harm they have suffered due to the lack of the um Tech Giant to practice responsibly and to ensure that it practices are safe so you have already seen for instance uh various actions that's been brought about by consumers who themselves as a result of the lack of um protection and the lack of security and monitoring that's been administered by the big Tech that they then go on to start action where they say they themselves have been the subject of harm whether they've been subject of uh bullying that has not been actually nip in the butt um there has been the rohinga refugees have started action against uh met to say that because of the way that they did not clam down on the hate speech against them that they've created this entire environment where they are being persecuted um globally because M just didn't do enough to stop some of these untrue stories going on Facebook so all this action in the various jurisdiction is going to come about and the question for really the consumer and the big Tech is where would this litigation take place I think that is really the um big question and the very exciting question one would naturally assume us because of the US class action regime because of the fact that all the big Tech are based there and this is where they think they'll get the advantage and the US would feel you know there's a certain system that makes it very plaintive friendly to a certain extent but the question then becomes um would it just be simply a Us action would it be more of um where the harm is suffered where the consumers are based would there be anti- suit injunctions being taken out to prevent certain litigation from ongoing we already see that with the brow rep agreements the arbitration agreements where where parties would take out to prevent a class action from continuing due to the existence of an arbitration agreement which is a very low threshold to meet as long as as a pra facy arbitration agreement you grant the state so increasingly you will see all this crossborder disputes where we are talking about jurisdictional fight we're talking about where's the best place for the litigation an the suit injunctions and that then requires um very very good I think collaboration across various business units and across various law firms who are very strong in their domestic jurisdictional practice to see what's the best way to navigate all this issues yeah you know that's interesting I I also think what we see in the US as kind of the potential next Frontier and this is fed a little bit by what maybe some of you in the room have seen concerning news coverage of the last two election cycles and for the incoming president uh uh Trump's second term in January one of the next Battlegrounds which while it'll be fought in the court of public opinion with respect to the treatment of the media and social media platforms what I think plaintiff's lawyers uh and some of the existing litigations will seize on is this potentially artificial dichotomy between content moderation which for the last 10 years has been seen as a non-controversial topic something that you would expect social media platforms to put in place in fact when there wasn't adequate content moderation that was a basis to attack and file suit now there's been kind of this morphing of content moderation into this idea of censorship is content moderation on social media platforms censorship and if so is that actionable and will the federal government in the US have a regulatory attack on social media platforms and media platforms because content moderation a a relatively non-controversial topic 10 years ago has become a new Battleground and does that shift quickly in four or five years when the next Administration and does it matriculate West are there issues that are copycat in the UK and Europe and into the Middle East and and Asia so I think that is another Battleground that we're going to see emerge here how it influences the current litigation dynamic in the US is a bit unknown known um but it is it is definitely already being previewed in fact um president-elect Trump's uh pick for the Federal Communications Commission the FCC that regulates Communications including on social media platforms was well known prior to his selection for being a social media platform is censorship Advocate and has stated in a lot of Publications that his first Frontier against big Tech in the social media media space will be just that will be attacking content moderation versus um censorship and it may be a way around some of the First Amendment immunity that big Tech social media has the protection of within the United States so stay tuned for that it'll be potentially a different discussion at resolve 2025 um before we uh leave in the minutes we have I wanted to give each of you a chance to kind of give some final thoughts um and since we're in your hometown Jamie why don't you kick us off look I think when we opened up the the session we realized that there's just a huge set of subjects here from uh you know monitoring of big Tech implementation of their Solutions within all of the consumers particularly children and those who are the subject of what we originally discussing really which is um those vulnerable need to be protected um we all have a degree and a view of of what that protection looks like we all want Regulators to act proactively and we say that um but when we see the laws and we see the regulations um and we and we then think about implementation whether it's the Australian example I gave you and how easy it is it seems for the Youth to Simply simply bypass it if they want to access social media platforms it seems that the the the the old adage of the tech being just a head of of Regulation and law will just continue um and so it's the the room here with with Regulators with court administrators with lawyers and and advisors who are going to be the the the the people that will need to step up and try to work through how will this regulation come to be to actually serve the other big topic we talked about which is safety um to ensure that those consuming these products are going to do so safely um we know that big Tech's not going away nor do I think we want them to go away um each of you have a phone that if you leave on your seat go out to the bathroom you'll be petrified as soon as you leave the room um that someone's got your phone uh and that you don't have access to your social media or your messaging systems we can't live without it um and so it's not really going to be a matter I think of of of very harsh regulation but regulation that facilitates use responsibly is going to be the Battleground and that's going to be where it um we've seen you know with uh president-elect and also is the the head of Department of government spend and others with pretty pretty strong views on the on the subject um I think it's a different issue I'd like to put on the table is is the environment um and and this is energy the energy required to power the generative AI um uh impact of the future is staggering and the impact that will have on the environment on the use of on the use of of energy on the application of energy on the mix of energy in an economy here in Abu daab we we have nuclear um as as well as Renewables as well as the oil and gas sector so we have quite a comprehensive Energy Mix and approach but there are countries that want to play in this space where the actual qu query for them is do you have the energy capacity and the social license to be able to apply energy toward that so another topic and perhaps that's your climate topic next uh but I think it's it's it's a fascinating space uh we'll continue to see litigation financiers run after this space because of the Deep Pockets and because of the vulnerabilities they present this is a an industry which has thrived on getting product to Market first and figuring out the consequences later and that will continue to to fuel I think legal Regulatory and other uh and other stakeholders here to be stapled to it handcuff to Big Tech as it progresses well I feel like your comments there have uh validated Morgan Lewis's development of a data center working group and all of the legal and litigation and Regulatory issues concerning the generation of power for uh for AI um so thank you for that I'll let our chair know suen uh final comments um I'll pick my final comment from what you just said about censorship um well Singapore actually took a very robus approach when we were looking at the falsehoods that's been perpetrated on the internet and we look at um the many false statements that's made and what this has led to some societal harm where um some teenagers felt um and it caus personal harm so as a result of that actually we pass a protection from online falsehood and manipulation act in Singapore which essentially gives the court the jurisdiction to issue stop orders against um you know platforms against like meta against uh Instagram any Twitter any platform X they call it now yeah but any platform if there was this um view that there was an online fast food and it was um manipulation so so when we passed this act we had many conversation with the pig Tech they were all up in arms against Singapore they said what this is freedom of speech how could you put this censorship on us um how could you just simply assert jurisdiction Just Because the Internet is accessible in Singapore we had a long conversation with them before we managed to streamline the entire act but we decided to go ahead despite their protest the one little K we gave them was that um they said we still need to satisfy bu service outside jurisdiction on them which is their respective and where they are based which is not difficult and I think this is very interesting as to whether other jurisdictions if we really talk about safety first and we really talk about tech companies having this social responsibility would they take this step like Singapore did to actually pass an act which may sound to many what an intrusion great Marx the last 70 seconds are yours yeah I think to things I think what you see in Europe and and um its effect of life that that we're now seeing a lot of litigation in in the class action sphere that pit fundamental rights against each other um whether it is in the climate space it's right to life as the ACR has said versus the primary need for energy and and the fact of life that not all energy is renewable now how to resolve that in a particular situation in a particular litigation is um Beyond 70 seconds and and Beyond me um but and the same is true for big Tech litigation where you have the right to privacy versus freedom of speech um we're sort of there in a very highly polarized environment um and also geopolitically there's a pol polarized environment um which in my view will lead to far more litigation around this to to sort of um uh try and Prevail as for companies making Acquisitions or looking at litigations my view is that uh basically it's no longer the answer to try and predict what a judge will find in a couple of years what the outcome will be that's you know is pretentious to to think that you can predict that um it's far more important to look at how to mitigate the consequences and the risks uh what you can adapt to your product to your services to to basically try and figure out how to mitigate and and engage with all the stakeholders internally and and outside to to to figure out what the best course forward is rather than managing the litigation that used to be the case great thank you well self-interestedly it'll keep us all employed for the next 10 years thank you for your time [Music]