Bridging Sovereign Capital Unlocking Gulf Asia Private Market Potential

Thank you all for sharing your time with us again. And uh these three gentlemen I have here for you do not need any introduction. So what we'll do is we'll jump right into it. So uh Dan, I'll just start right with you in terms of uh the transformation of the role of a sovereign affiliated investors in the world. I wanted to take a step back by asking you um some question about your private journey right throughout your career.

Is there or has there been a single most critical moment whether it is geopolitical surprise, policy change, anything like that, crisis, anything like that that have changed the way you view the strength and the limits of sovereign investors.

Uh thank you Zoe. Um you know it's been quite a journey for sovereign wealth funds since the first sovereign wealth fund was set up over 50 years ago and sovereign wealth funds have become a lot more sophisticated in terms of the way they invest globally and even I would say that in the Middle East you've seen a lot of that happening in the last uh 20 30 years. I would say the big change happened when the Trump 45 administration came into being because at that point in time you could see the intersection of geopolitics and in the investment world and uh I would say a form of collision of the two and what you began to see was more focus being put on what sovereign wealth funds were doing in the commercial market in the investment market and you saw the proliferation of um of foreign investment regimes coming up around the world not just those in United States or or other parts of the world that we were used to. But you saw sovereign you saw these regimes come up almost everywhere that you're operating which therefore made it a little bit more complex for sovereign wealth funds when they were uh going out to invest purely for commercial reasons simply because the approval processes became a little bit more complicated than before and that would affect also our portfolio companies which were either subsidiaries or associated companies because of the fact that we were owning them. Um and so that became I would say the single biggest change I've seen in the last 15 years.

Thank you Dion. Uh Gabrielle I want to talk to turn to you because uh Dan just mentioned the important changes in the Middle East happening in the region and personally uh my journey with the region. Uh personally I started coming to the region back in 2016 and every time I come back things have changed. And I wanted to ask you uh I find it interesting that Savara you being the CEO opened the office the in the region and Abu Dhabi here is your first office in the region. Why Abu Dhabi?

What Abu Dhabi offers uniquely that u you couldn't get it elsewhere.

Well, thank you very much. Um maybe by way of introduction I'll share a bit about Seiraa. We are a 100% subsidiary of Tamasi and we're in the asset management space managing about 72 billion between public markets and private market strategies. I think we open in Abu Dhabi for I would say three reasons. One is uh there's a real alignment of philosophies.

I think uh Shik Kaldun said yesterday that the UAE was has always been a nation or a land of traders and I would say Singapore shares the same view. So we believe in open markets, free trade and investments and obviously capital flows. Two is that I think both of us are respective gateway hubs to our respective regions and beyond. Singapore for Southeast Asia and also parts of Asia, the UAE, Abu Dhabi for the Middle East and in the region immediately around it as well. And I think there's a lot of value for both gateway hubs to connect with one another as well.

And the third I think was really because both Singapore and Abu Dhabi and the UAE are really focused on investing and building the future together and that is an intersection between capital flows, technology, innovation and our imagination as well. So for us Abu Dhabi was a sort of a natural choice. We are very grateful to be in the ADGM and also growing our businesses here in Abu Dhabi and in the region and we're hoping that through the collaboration we can have both the falcon economy and the lion economy that the falcon economy saw while the lion economy roars as well. So we hope to do more together. Thank you.

I think we already have a headline lion economy and the falcon economy the alliance right there. So now Muhammad I want to turn to you um because I do see the similarity as Gabrielle correctly described the similarity between Singapore and UAE and on top of that there is also Mubadala as a development oriented company sovereign funds the same as Tamasc. So from your viewpoint, where do you see Asia or East Asia economic financial corridor? Where does Asia fit into your vision and what Asia offers that is unique?

Yeah, thanks Zoe. So it's a very good question and it's one that we're consistently thinking about from a portfolio perspective um and also how to diversify from a jurisdictional perspective. Um for us Asia brings in a few key items and I think there's a lot of change that's taking place and a paradigm shift. One from demographics perspective you have whether good or for bad there is a shift that's taking place whether it's in India whether it's in Southeast Asia and you have a slowdown in demographics also in places like China, Japan and Korea. And so being able to play within those nuances I think is a very interesting idea.

digitalization. This is one that you're consistently hearing about on a consistent basis where people are building or enhancing on what the technology sphere has um and building on that. It is completely underpenetrated within Asia itself. So this is a huge tsunami wave that I think is going to come in very rapidly where we think there's a lot of great opportunities. the same time the other aspect that I think is really interesting for people to understand within Asia itself is also on the consumption side and so you can look at that from a multi-layered perspective whether it's high-end whether it's uh the broader sales and the middle class or it's either to uh lower income uh areas and so there you're seeing different upgrades and where you're seeing shifts in economies and GDP per capita taking or breaking certain layers like the $7,000 mark or the $10,000 mark.

And you see clear trends shifting in the way that people are spending their capital on a day-to-day basis. And so for us, this is a very unique, I would say, positioning that's taking place and where we can see there's a good amount of growth. Now, where does Asia sit today within our portfolio? Asia is probably about 12 to 13% of Mubad's $330 billion of assets under management. In the next five to 10 years, we would love to see that double and we would like to use a multist strategy approach whether it's through private equity, whether it's through infrastructure and real estate or whether through our endowment model through Abu Dhabi investment council in being able to do that.

This is great. Muhammad, if I can just have a follow-up question for you. So in your current portfolio allocation north America is about 40% or so and Asia is below 20%. Right? So this what you are talking about is not just a geographic diversification.

You are making a strategic bet in the longer term trajectory of Asian economy. Is that a correct understanding?

Yeah and I think that's the best way to mask it. I mean for us it's more of the private equity side really driving a lot of that deployment and and it's mainly through large quantum right and doing things in the late stage and buyout space and so when you think of the four core markets that we have that were implemented today India China Japan South Korea are being the key drivers especially with markets with with a significant amount of GDP I would say that's strong enough and depth in the PE market that's mature enough and also exit possibilities whether through strategics or through the capital market side of things. And so those are the key for us. But where it's very central is China. China is the big piece and the centerpiece of our portfolio when it comes to Asia.

Today we have an office in Beijing. We have 35 staff members. We also have a joint venture office in Hong Kong. And that's a market where we can see that there's going to be a lot of structural reform that takes place. I'm sure you guys are hearing a lot in the news consistently today.

the five-year plan is being implemented between 2026 to 2030. What are those underlying sectors that the government is really pushing for and where are they seeing this public private I would say collaboration taking place to create that growth that they're outlining for that 5% GDP growth over the next five years on on an average. And so this for us is where us as investors take a real strong lens, laser focused, figure out those mega trends that are happening and start looking through the value chain of those opportunities and spotting those ones and being able to act on them and weighing the riskreward and being able to transact in a quick manner. I mean this is a fantastic because from somebody like me born in China and then moved to the US now in bas in New York what I constantly hear people talking about is either divers uh del globalization or reglobalization supply chain onshoring reshoring or China plus x as if you only hear people are moving out of China but what you're talking talking to us is you know you see the opportunity in China in other word you are also seeing a different perspect perspective on globalization. Uh Dan, I'm just wanting to hear your perspective on this.

How does this how do you see where the world is moving? Are we entering into a more geopolitically fragmented world? Hence, we need a parallel systems or you see also opportunities for reglobalization.

So, I think globalization as we have experienced it in last 30 years has gone. I think what we're looking at is a new form of globalization except we don't actually know what the shape of it is and what will be in it. What we do know is that every country needs trade and investment to continue to prosper. And that's what happened the last 30 years of globalization. Globalization was good for every country, not any one particular country at the expense of another.

Now you can argue of course about trade imbalances and so on. That is natural in the context of of trade investment. The more important thing is this. I think that that that there is going to be more and more uh plurilateralism which is a coalition of the willing around certain issues that will come about. It's not that multilateralism is gone but multilateralism will also only apply for certain things and plurillateralism will apply for other things.

So if you just look at trade um trade arrangements CPTP is an element of plurilateralism. Um I think uh Dr. Goi uh the WTO uh um uh director general as well as your president Michael Fman have actually written about this and and these and the CFR and and and and the WTO have come to the conclusion that the formal globalization we had has to change because we now recognize where the benefits are and where the the issues are and I think that's what the future lies. The UAE and Singapore have entered into agreement to promote trade and investment with two other countries. It's an MOU.

It can give way to a it will it might give rise to a to an agreement with other countries. I think there's a thing to do now. Just as you see that between countries, you will see that between companies. I believe that the future is the future of partnerships. No one can go along al alone.

We all have something to add to the mix. I would say that we don't have uh the universal of all ideas and and and and uh and and skills and capabilities. We need to augment it with others who think the same way as us and bring something together with us for for mutual benefit. I think that's the future for all of us.

I appreciate your view of the importance of globalization and how we can under we need to understand globalization and the need to trade. Really appreciate that. Now I wanted to turn to Gabrielle because Adillan just mentioned the importance of partnership now that you have been in the region for almost a year and by next March I will congratulate you for your one year anniversary.

Thank you.

And so so far I want to ask you from your vision of coming to Abu Dhabi to now you have operated here for almost a year. What is surprised you when you are building partnership? Well, I've been the partnership and our experience in the past year has been nothing short of positive. Um, the government has been incredibly welcoming of us. Uh, our partnerships with Mubadala and some of the other institutions here in Abu Dhabi have been mutually beneficial and we've really felt the warmth and uh, welcome that we've been able to achieve over here which makes our job a lot easier.

I think the real opportunity for us as we see it lies in the future uh uh whether it's at a geopolitical level and Dylan earlier spoke about the collaboration we are doing not just bilaterally between Singapore and Abu Dhabi but also as part of a plurilateral setting I think the most recent one is it's called fitp the future for investment and trade partnership for which the UAE and Singapore co co-conveners at a geopolitical level we'll continue to work together to as I mentioned earlier bring together our respective regions into part of a much more interconnected blural setting. but also at the tactical level with regards to our collaborations on the ground, our ability to uh opportunities to raise capital from the Middle East to deploy into very exciting opportunities in Asia and conversely also to work with Tamasic and other partners to think about how we can invest in the excitement and the uh future potential of this region as well. So we're very excited about what lies ahead and we certainly expect to be here not just for one year but for many more years to come.

Fantastic. I wanted to end we have about four minutes slightly more. Uh I wanted to end the conversation by ask since I started with a personal question I wanted to end with another personal question. Um given that you know for somebody like me I studied economics, finance, international relations and one lesson that I learned is the importance of people. You hear about a USChina relationship UAE Singapore China UAE or US UAE US uh ASEAN US Singapore as if countries are black boxes as if individuals do not matter but actually individuals matter a lot.

Not just with the return of President Trump, suddenly people care about the people. So I wanted to ask each of you the same question. Starting with you Dylan, where do you see the role of people? Where do you see the role of mutual trust and partnership when you are making investment decisions in a more geopolitically volatile world? And the same question for everyone of you.

So I've been saying in Tamasic that we're not in in the investment business or really in the people business because for us to deliver returns talent is everything. But it's not just about talent. It's about the networks that you have. We like to say that in Tamas we have to be aworked organization. Your network internally to learn from each other but you also network to others outside so you can actually build things together and you know and and move together.

And I think that's very important. I tell you what is uh is is I think something that's very striking for me when I compare Abu Dhabi and Singapore. We're we're actually multicultural places. We're multicultural places and therefore we have to embrace each other, our traditions, our cultural uh differences and embrace them and have cultural affinity with each other. And I think that's what we see in both countries.

We're very open economies. We we embrace people coming in and being part of uh of an assimilate and being assimilated with society. And I think that's very important because when you're multicultural, you're able to therefore go out there and establish relationships. And today relationships are critical for you to be successful. Governments need relationships, companies need relationships, individuals needs relationships.

You know, I I tell my people this, you know, knowledge is good. Uh know how is better. Know who is best. when you really need to get things going, it's the people you can pick up the phone and call and get a real good view viewpoint from that can augment your own views about things.

Fantastic. Since no, I go to Muhammad.

Sure. Um I'm going to piggyback on the uh the previous question which is around partnership and I think Dylan really boxed it and framed it in a really interesting way that's talking about it from a multifaceted perspective. The way that we view it within Moubadla itself and how we operate is through a lens where we've deconstructed the typical LPGP construct and come up with this concept called an unlimited partnership and that is an open corridor between us and GPS where we don't just interact in a way where we're just handing them capital to manage on our behalf. It's how do we build very dynamic relationships where we can co-underwrite transactions together and be able to deploy capital. I think that type of mindset when people that are raising money and coming to Abu Dhabi are thinking about that's the way that you want to position these kind of relationships as LPS sovereigns have become much more sophisticated as investors.

We are looking at the world in a very very different lens and one that's rapidly changing and so our partnership model also has to change and evolve with that.

Fantastic Deborah.

Well, thank you. I'll say very simply that people are absolutely critical and this is for three perspectives. one as a asset management uh company we are a fiduciary and whether it's to our investors or to our partners we have a responsibility and a duty of care to them to be able to invest their money well and to be able to do deals together well and absolutely key to that is the m manner of trust and that is ultimately built by the interactions and the personal relationships that we have with our investors as well as our partners as well. I will say one last point before the timer goes off which is that both Mubadala and Tamasic and Seiraa are obviously sovereign linked entities and in that regard our success matter a great deal also to the people of our respective countries. So I on that note I just hope that with this session and with this uh ADFW that we can continue to collaborate more because the benefits acrew not just to ourselves and our teams and our funds and our capital but also the people which we belong to.

Thank you.

Can I just make one comment? You know as an investor you see things in the in the through the prism of three things strategy, capital and people. People is the most important.

Fairly agree.

Fantastic. And I wish you all the best as you build up the partnership of the Falcon economy and the lion economy. Thank you all for sharing your time with us everyone.