A Dive Into the Metaverse | European Blockchain Convention

foreign [Music] thank you for your attendance so a dive into metaverse um let's just kick it off we'll start with a brief intro of our panelists and maybe Joaquin would you like to start um who just tell us who you are and what your project or company is doing in metaverse hello my name is Joaquin I've been full-time in crypto for the last six years I have advised luxury companies with more than 10 billion euros turnover International museums and governments in their first crypto steps so um I am also an nft holder of the biggest uh nft communities and speaking more about metaverse I own land in the five top metaverses uh spatial decentraland the sandbox Helix and the other side from yoga Labs right now I am an advisor of algorithm is a really young team of entrepreneurs we are creating an um ultra realistic digital space for brands yeah okay thank you narek please yes my name is Eric I'm the CEO and founder of blocked which is a blockchain social media platform uh aimed to get rid of and solve the problems of current web 2 social media platforms out there um you know we've Incorporated quite a few things that are different one is you utilize a wallet as your identity instead of having a username or password and the second biggest thing is that we have a tokenized gate system for communities in D5 we really harness the power of the blockchain to offer security and verification of users okay thank you and Pedro thank you Christina thank you everyone so my name is Pedro I'm a technologist I work for a Richmond Group which which is a luxury group with the brand or Piaget probably that Rings more the ballot I'm responsible for web 3 and Technology Innovation for the group I'm part of the blockchain initiative since we started five years ago so I would say quite early for for our industry we were the first one creating a digital certificate of authenticity based on blockchain because based on nft for a physical product for a luxury physical product for a watch with our brand vaselon Constantine and um very happy to to be here and yeah to discuss with you about what is metaverse and what it means for for everyone is about what is metaverse or are metaverse and I would also like to expand the discussion and please ask you if you consider that the concept of metaverse implies centralization or decentralization so I don't know who would like to start answering this question Maybe they're gonna start why not so for me the the the the metaverses are experiential layer we we see a lot of different uh different tools um called metaverse and I think we are trying to explore and to develop what is a metaverse collectively so for me I I prefer to go back to the conceptual uh to the conceptual definition it's an experiential layer it's a is is a meme that allow allow us to to interact with other peers with brands with institutions digitally and I think it means a very different theme for for everyone um talking about decentralization I don't think it implies decentralization we have a second life we have way earlier uh experiments on that but in my opinion the intersection between web 3 and the metaverse is what really creates something unique is like a core mass that brings the impact to grow exponentially so because you are you are adding we are adding to the metaverse concept the concept of ownership of two ownership right so I would say it's it's for me that and and it's going to be a challenge in my opinion because we are moving towards a context where we need a lot of deeper personalization um it's it's a meme to to provide or a platform for self-expression the same way that we express ourselves in the real world so uh I would say it like that I wouldn't say if one or another tool is a matter also or not that's interesting I would say that the the discussion sits on whether metaverse is about web 3 and ownership and liquid democracy and decentralization or whether we can have metaverses that are centralized even though we don't don't have ownership like like so no what do you think about it uh I think currently what everyone thinks about metaverse is being developed in the decentralized fashion but centralization will come I think to it on a very small scale and it'll be adoption from what decentralized has created and that's just the pattern that uh centralized authorities or just centralization takes even in the current world so maybe web3 is like setting the path and then centralized structures like maybe your group will come in and just uh either copy those sort of business models or either just get themselves inside something like this onto land well decentralization is essentially the place where you're gonna attempt and try all the Innovations and everything and you're gonna fail a lot centralization is the is the point where they've seen what works and they adopt it you know so that's just what I see as the difference between decentralization and centralized centralized will eventually adopt what works in decentralized areas nice Theory I hadn't heard that one a nice Theory what about your yeah okay I'm gonna give a different uh yeah explanation for uh metaverse I would say my own opinion is that uh our life is full of uh digital objects and for me uh the metaverse is gonna be the visualization of those digital objects that in the future they're gonna be all of them nfts so that's my own explanation for metaverse okay so just like a front end for the visualization of nfts okay so you would link more with Pedro like metaverses require a different technology like the nft one okay nice nice each one of you has one different approach to metaverse and regarding centralization and decentralization uh this okay this is like a big discussion right but it depends uh on the use that you want to give to the metaverse for example you have a spatial that it's completely centralized and it is very useful for uh for companies like setting up meetings and stuff but you can also own the nft on openc of the like configuration of the space on the other side you have the Central and that it is I I would say it is like the most decentralized metaverse out there um but you have inconvenience because uh sometimes you wanna you wanna build something and someone is building something really weird next to you and uh yeah it can screw your your business as well so I I believe that everything starts with centralization and um it's low they have to getting decentralized with the pass of the time okay so adoption will go to decentralization okay nice now one thing that half um has worried us or at least some of us for some time now about metaverses and decentralized metaverses that are based on blockchain technology has been user experience so I wanted to ask you do you believe that decentralized or blockchain based metaverses require different skills in order to use them or live inside them and in this sense will metaverses create new job positions with these new skills or can anyone with traditional skills enter this new world in like a professional manner I think the biggest problem right now is the fact that people are talking about going from what we have today which is web 2 and jumping directly into decentralization without there being some sort of bridge and that does cause a problem for old developers or web 2 developers but I I want them to know that there is a space for that because you have to have you have to be able to incorporate the technologies that work today um to be able to build a foundation that works for tomorrow so I do think that the developers not necessarily will create new jobs but the developers that are full stack today will be even more full stack um a year or two from now because they'll add you know either solidity or rust to their to their skill set um but I'm not sure if it'll create more jobs there's already a lot of tech jobs that aren't filled um but you know I do think that a lot more job openings will happen within the the just the blockchain environment so maybe not new positions but like the evolution of the skills of the current ones right yeah there has to be some core some form of uh incorporating what what works today into what we want to work tomorrow nice it works for lawyers too yeah I I agree with that I think I think the positions will change I think we will see jobs uh that uh today they are not in the market um and absolutely it's going to change for me one of the things and and I when the previous speaker was presenting the the metaverse he spoke about the storytelling at the end we all engage with the stories and tourism stories how the the the the way to connect even when we interact in the physical world when we hang out or at the work someone tell us something and there's a way to to connect so storytellers how many storytellers jobs can you see on the market today I think that will be one of the the types of job that that will increase dramatically and I agree with you in the in the fact that we see like the end game we are looking at the end game and we are not looking at how to bridge from today to tomorrow and that happens that when when when in my case when I meet with with companies trying to uh to develop a new product and so on is sometimes it's difficult to to make that connection because they are so far ahead that that is is not possible for for uh for me to see the way to implement and and so so we need to transition because we need to be a realistic here the majority of the people that lives in the world today don't care about blockchain or web3 what they care is about you know I want to purchase a new clothes I'm going to hang out with my friends or whatever so we need to find a way to reduce the friction and make that that bridge for sure yeah I think there is like we all know that there is a big gap between web 2 and web3 and we as crypto native uh we have to focus much more on on mass adoption on education big companies like metamask binance companies like that they're giving web free education because nobody has to pay for that for learning that and that's super important if we if we if we really need Mass adoption and we have to simplify things and a better user interface and so this is really needed not that much like yesterday I listened to someone and he was talking about uh trillions uh trillion dollars um I mean that the Bears is like a trillion dollars opportunity and I was thinking about like first we need to educate everyone in order to get money I mean web 3 is not about uh earning a lot of money is about property and if the people doesn't get it the people will keep trying to get money like web 2 web 2 everyone steps on on each other and web3 is like a new kind of uh economy it's a collaborative economy so let's just focus on education and onboarding new people instead of getting money yeah I totally agree with that in fact um as I believe it so much that I've been writing a Blog in Spanish for like two years now and where I just simplify crypto stuff and in very like plain Spanish and in these two years we've got like 15 000 subscribers which and it's for free I mean I I always believed that the good information or the good information for crypto should be for free if we want Mass adoption so it's for free no so and that I'm telling this because we have like 15K subscribers because there is a lot of interest from people to learn about things so if we could actually educate them more and Foster this education maybe we could accelerate that that sort of adoption okay for Mass adoption there is something else that um constitutes a key ingredient which is regulation I wanted to ask you as um as people who participate in this metaverse or metaverses what is your opinion on regulation so do we need new regulations do do we need no regulation at all um is the regulation that we have in place now enough and another question which is does new tech mean new law I'm a lawyer and I am very curious about are you being advised by traditional lawyers or lawyers who have done a new sort of approach Tech based on your project maybe you we can start by you now you can be crypto Anarchist if you want uh okay let me think there was a lot of questions there okay um maybe I can start if you want so so I totally agree I would say that that personally one of the conversations I like the most in my job is with the lawyers because you have a very interesting way of looking at things but also very constructive and in general very forward thinking let's say that I discuss with both types lawyers that come from a new Fresh Approach and the others that are trying to to to make sense of uh what's going on and I I would say we need both because we need the link with what is happening today as well but we need to look uh to tomorrow and as much as I would like to say you know everyone can do whatever they want that would be the ideal thing I think we need regulations and and a good example we have in in big Tech and in social networks I think that caught us by surprise to the whole society and we we all know and are aware of the different issues around privacy about data processing and so on and so forth I'm not going to mention them again and as a society we have been playing catch-up since then always they are always ahead so let's try not to make the the same mistake now we are aware that technology can disrupt our society and I think law is one of the key pillars that we need to take into consideration so faster than low yeah exactly going on forever yeah yeah but you know we need we need people like you to uh to uh help Society figure out and and you know bring something that that guarantees everything that we are discussing these days you know Integrity diversity inclusivity privacy and maybe to prevent things like the ones happening now currently in the U.S exactly also in Spain I mean it's full of uh Pontius schemes structures going on and nobody is doing anything I mean we really need a law in order to protect their retail and people that is not the very well known has a lot of knowledge with crypto and they're getting rocked and nobody's doing anything because it's crypto you know I went to the police station once because I I got those like Bitcoins uh kidnapped like since like four years ago and I went there and I said okay how is my case going and they were like oh is Bitcoin that's doesn't exist like what do you mean it doesn't exist so you put money yeah so we really need to get protected a law needs to advance because I know that Tech is going faster as you said that that the law but we we need some kind of protection for average users maybe I would say that um low has two steps the first one is just publishing a framework and then comes enforcement so I think that maybe what you mean is that we do have the law but what we need now in Spain at least is like more enforcement more taking that glow to reality and saying because criminal code is already there and it's been there for years but we may need more enforcement not so much as in the us but we may need some some enforcement by now I don't maybe in Eric what's your vision on this I was just sitting here thinking about regulation and I think for the metaverse it's going to be different kinds of Regulation because um you know I think the more we Adventure into metaverse the more we'll come up with other ideas that maybe don't involve tokenization but still involve the blockchain so if it doesn't have some kind of tokenization to it there's no Financial Risk behind it and those can be a different set of laws something like a game rating or something like they do for video games like mature or for everyone um so I think it's you know we're still open to see where the regulation can come in from there but I think it's really important to work with lawyers whether they understand blockchain or not is because we educate them as much as they educate us you know so like for example we're working with a lawyer in Cyprus and you know she's she's an amazing lawyer she understands the law to the T but not as much when it comes to what's going on in the crypto world so we have to educate her a little bit on the things make her understand how the things work so she knows what I guess legislation to to go after or where to apply regulation yeah that's nice because I used to remember it's like seven years ago where lawyers were not accepted in any place so I like this has evolved so last question before we give the audience the opportunity to ask us questions I would say where do you see metaverse or metaverses in the short midterm so like in five years time and would you also please um tell me what's your opinion on is this something just for younger Generations because I keep like hearing this idea of metaverses are for Jen said and it's only for like our next Generations is this something you feel as well or do you have a different opinion I think Millennials are the best choice for for metaverse and everything blockchain and crypto related right now um because naturally Millennials are anarchists you know we've we've been through both sides of the generation where you know we've grew up without things and then we grew up understanding things and we're open to learn new things whereas the generation before us really didn't have that opportunity generation after us was born into that already so for them technology is just technology I feel like um I I really think that the Millennials will will benefit the most but also be more in the industry than anyone else nice yeah I don't have a crystal ball but I always explain it like this way uh maybe okay right now we have our phones uh in our hands like maybe five six seven hours per day and every time is getting worse and worse we keep changing uh from applications I mean WhatsApp LinkedIn Twitter Instagram phone call uh pictures like we keep changing all the time and um I believe that uh the metaverse in I don't know maybe five ten years I don't know uh is gonna help us with this situation it doesn't mean we're gonna be with the glasses or the contact lens or with this device nobody knows a lot of time every day but it's gonna like compress all this time that we are spending in so many different applications and we're gonna be doing all those things in one big space and that's gonna be the metaverse interesting what do you think about I I I'm very much aligned with that with that view I think today the the the our technology ecosystem is overcrowded and it's very difficult to keep up we have like you know probably each one of us at least four or five messaging applications only for messaging right for texting so um I'm fully aligned however I'd say that it's going to be a combination is there going to be some kind of of um of personalization I go back to the topic of uh hyper personalization and self-expression I think gender Generations definitely are more prone to uh to use it but also in a different way there's going to be segregate generational segregation but at the same time think that each one of us we we in the real world we dressed in a specific way we behave in a specific way we talk in a specific way and and it's based on how we feel ourselves and how we want to we project us in front of uh and and we don't do the same depending on the context where we are I think the metaverse is going to be the same and it's going to answer to all these needs to do all these likes and and I think each one of us like to do different things we don't focus on a specific thing so yes some camera some somehow some kind of consolidation but at the same time we will have a lot more choices to hang out and to interact with with uh with friends and with peers I think right now the metaverse is very technical for the normal person so like he was mentioning earlier we have all these different apps in the future the metaverse is going to be essentially like that where everyone uses their own portion of the metaverse or their own app that has the customization to what their needs are and what they like so we're right now throwing all metaverse in one category um which is fine because it is very technical right now and the normal person doesn't understand or get excited as much for code like we do as developers but as the years go on and as we get more creative people in the industry and more designers we'll be able to uh have that and you know that what everybody's need is essentially covered Vision we now need storytellers to get to where Joaquin said we may reach in five ten years time nice should we give the audience does anyone have any question if nobody has a question I can throw a last one we've got four minutes left oh hi there thank you for these brilliant insights one of the questions is what are the key use cases that you've identified for uh the metaverse well that's a good question um I would say it depends you know in in the industry I work for definitely is customer engagement it's a way to uh to uh to tell the story um Brands and and companies to extend that story to to a new channel right if I would say more on a personal Dimension I would say something immersive you know I I've tested a lot of metaverses or virtual platforms I would say that for me the most that the ones that are more immersive are are the the ones with VR but at the same time I don't see that scalable I think that's that's cumbersome so it's difficult to say at the moment I would say that you know engagement something that engages the person and that keeps the person in in that metaverse I think one of the best things that we can use it for and it's already being used in other applications like the Oculus like the headsets is having like International meetings you know right now it just it looks terrible right but the foundation is there and I think we can have it like he was saying in a more immersive way where you feel as if everyone is there you know it's not this kind of disconnected one at a time talking or taking notes it's more of you feel like the whole team is there with you regardless of where they are in the in the world I've seen uh Accenture and a Boston Consulting groups small teams having regular meetings in special as a normal thing every day so that's an actual real case that I've been experiencing [Music] there is a very good use case in gaming and the designing of different incentives that we've we've been traditionally been seeing my problem with incentives is that it now you're facing regulation because of incentives you know that's literally what they're is that a problem uh it's not a problem for us it's a problem for them because they want to know everything you know so um my idea like I was saying is having a form of metaverse where it's not tokenized it uses the blockchain it has some form of entry points um or security points that utilize the blockchain for verification and security but it's not tokenized in the way of the incentives don't come from just nowhere right yeah I I totally understand your your point um maybe the answer comes more from a legal perspective so I will not I will leave it there but the use case it's like obvious so it's it's it's it's attracting a lot of attention at least here in Spain use cases with with like the undead you know game fire and these sort of things even if it's regulated um I would say yeah any other questions I I would like to add something sorry uh regarding the use case I've been in like two different concerts where uh if you attend you get a pop-up it means a proof of attendance protocol and with this pop-up uh you can get a discount on future uh concerts of the artist so that's an actual uh interesting real case and it's engagement yeah so good morning and thank you for your presentation I have a question about the uploading of the environment the examples that I know so far regarding web3 are metaverse there's an environment that is created by by someone else and we are living in that environment how will will this environment be replaced or updates in order for us to are always living in a teeth environment so I think I think I understood the question um yeah it's like so will like metaverses get constantly updated so you know like decentraland it was like just a bare space that you could build upon so um I think she's asking about will we keep seeing meta verses that get updated I I am going to answer first with with your permission I wouldn't say we will see metaverse is getting updated but we are going to see constantly Evolution on metaverses that have them more of the users because especially if they are like uh decentralized or web3 where you just get in with your wallet and you can simply purchase a parcel of land and build whatever you want so if those get traction we you of course if you get in like today and then get back tomorrow it may be totally different thank you I think uh one thing that's critical in all of crypto and blockchain is listening to your community um because they're the ones that use the thing that you're creating and a lot of times developers are not business owned they're not business people they they really they just do the code they understand what they're doing but they don't really understand the relationship part of things um which we've all probably been a victim of that before but you know I think it's critical to listen to what your your fan base is saying and tailor it to besides having your own values tailor the experience to what they want because they're the ones using it at the end of the day it's just basic Ally that for me we we you you touch again the the concept of uh Epper personalization we want something that really speak to each one of us and I don't see the the current way of building these tools keeping up with that so the the one of the gentlemen from the previous session said if you want to build something and you want to put AI don't do it I would say the opposite I would say actually that's one of these use cases in my opinion where AI can can help to really keep up with the pace because humans are going to to struggle doing that Developers okay so time's up it's been super interesting to moderate this panel thank you for the organization and thank you for you for attending of course I'm sure you're hungry so let's have lunch thank you thank you everybody thank you very much [Applause]