EthCC 2: Griff Green

okay hey guys how's it going that was an amazing talk wow thank you so much taiwal you made my talk a lot easier because i'm going to definitely go into token bonding curves a little bit so uh where is he i lost him thank you so much dude for going deep i hope you guys were paying attention so my talk is about decentralizing all the things i'm pretty excited to kind of uh out of the box i'm pretty excited to kind of change the way we think about what we're building oh i know me i i feel very revolutionary when we're going into this that's what really got me into this like the blockchain revolution you know well i i think revolutions are amazing but i feel like that's just the tip of the iceberg you know this is more than we're not just digital che guevaras working on things you know i think there we kind of have that vibe but really it's bigger than that this is an evolutionary movement we're changing the way humans collaborate revolutions you know you can have a revolution where you just take down the man but then you don't build anything up we're all building things that can replace that can be used in the revolution revolutions are isolated things right it's like oh the revolution in catalonia the revolution that's happening in venezuela our tools are being used all over the place on all of these revolutions and they're always happening and constantly evolving our evolutions take time revolutions can be really quick and as you know we're all behind on our road maps so this is definitely more this is more evolutionary uh the biggest thing though is that revolutions often fail and i don't think blockchain can fail i think this technology can't be stopped because that's what it is it's an evolutionary technology that we're all really diving into however these evolut this evolution needs a solid foundation to be built on top of there's we you know we get ahead of ourselves sometimes diving straight into the gold which is decentralized governance but to have decentralized governance we need to have a decentralized infrastructure to get off of it to to build it on top of so i'm going to use uh i'm going to be kind of fun you know i'm going to we're going to take a adventure through space and time with our buddy theo up here theo is he desires to be a sovereign man he wants he is a decentralization maximalist and he's going to illustrate each of these points through his lifetime right so we're going to try to get to the end of the end of the rainbow the pot of gold which is decentralized governance so of course all of this starts with decentralized money we're so lucky when bitcoin came on the scene theo was hot to trot you know he was right up in there 2012 he was killing it uh and he was like bitcoin's amazing and then he felt mount gox and it took him down a couple notches right and and he felt bitfinex he felt mint pal cripsy all these hacks right they all got to him and then he realized whoa i have decentralized money but the infrastructure around it's not decentralized and then ethereum came into the scene and he got really excited because 2017 people are doing icos everything's going through the roof right and decentralized exchanges start coming out and he realized that hey i don't need to get screwed by mount cox anymore i can actually start i can add this into my portfolio i can just be in the ethereum space and stay decentralized by working with idecs uniswap and all these awesome crews and so that brings us to where we are today right we have decentralized money and we have tools to start working with it they're still pretty young and pretty shitty but they're getting better and then we realized well theo is like yeah decentralized money is great but i'm in seattle and i'm using comcast to interact with decentralized exchanges well that's not really that's not really the plan here it's like well if you have a dow and you're using and comcast can just turn off your internet well congratulations you know yay for decentralized governance uh but he hears about this awesome uh free network like a mesh network in catalonia that people used to actually vote for independence from spain because spain was censoring the internet and people that were trying to vote for independence they were able to connect to gwyfi.net which stretched all the way to paris and gave people access or sorry not paris but southern france and gave people access to a french isp and people were building going to schools so they could vote they would build a tower on top of the school and like connect to the mesh net and vote for independence so he moves to barcelona because he's sick of all the american anyway and he meets his buddy tim and this is uh this is 2021 by the way so he tim has discovered a way to using althea and aragon actually to uh to tokenize access to the internet so he doesn't need to get a contract he doesn't need to get anything he he just needs to get some tokens off idex and boom he can have decentralized internet access right and and if tim all of a sudden gets shut down there's other people that are working with althea to dive in so it's really awesome and he feels empowered he feels like now he really can't be stopped but then he's talking to tim and he's like well what are you using to access these decentralized exchanges it's like metamask man it's great well but what are you using what do you mean you're using infuria man like who's in fura i don't know oh well you better know right and so but tim tim tim has a way to actually share his internet with with theo because he has a dap note and dap node which also uses aragon what do you know domino became a dow and they give people access to they give you a little box that you can run any node uh peer to peer network with one click you can install monero you can install bitcoin lightning network raid in any of the peer-to-peer networks that you want and they pay you money well the peer-to-peer networks often incentivize you to run your own hardware at home so theo is just enamored with this and this is uh 2024 now he's in barcelona just keep you guys up to date catalonia yeah and uh and so then he decides to get his own dap node because it'll pay for itself anyway so he goes to adopt no dow he gets a he gets a box shipped to his house good old dap node and he started he he's excited to share it with his friends and family because dap no dow got really big and ended up buying up facebook [Applause] thank you yeah it all goes to edu up there he made something magical happen it was a customer acquisition deal right so so dev node uh now uses facebook they took out the back end and replaces it with item three and and they use facebook to connect app notes so now theo can share his network with all of his friends and family on facebook they can choose anyone on facebook or whatever social media platform dapnode owns because they end up with a lot of them you know uh to to actually share so you don't need inferior anymore because you've got your buddy theo or your buddy tim and you can connect to them and you can choose who to connect to is now we have decentralized hardware options and that infrastructure is really really important now as i said dapnode actually when they buy facebook they take out all that privacy sucking out and they replace it with iden 3. iden 3 is a really cool system that allows any identity to make a claim on any other identity what this means is you get to choose which authorities you trust in right now you know we kind of have these huge identity monopolies run by nation states but now we're in 2026. you don't need that anymore facebook is like and with item 3 in the background is what everybody uses to verify identities because also it's private by default it's not the old facebook it's the new one the iden three powered one right so theo in 2026 god bless his heart he has a child he names his child beyonce it's a very popular name so beyonce doesn't get a birth certificate right beyonce gets a facebook account which is private by default they get to decide who to share it with right and beyonce's identity just like it used to be you know you don't give the birth certificate to the kid and say put in your pocket kid and you'll figure it out no you give it to the parents and so fiance's identity is managed by the item 3 wallet which can manage multiple identities and when beyonce gets old enough you know they can share the identity but we're not there yet we're still in like i think now we're cruising through 2027. and uh so yeah so i and jordy talked about item 3 yesterday i don't need to go deep into it you guys can look it up so now he decides to move out of catalonia he loved it it was great but you know mesh networks are everywhere now including on kopanyang so he gets the kopenyang kovanyang thailand uh he loves it there and he finds out about all the cool stuff that giveth is doing out there they have an amazing system oh yeah let me see cool i'm going to get to some chalkboard stuff here in a second so gimmeth has been working so i'm going to go back in time a little bit giveth since 2019 has been working on some amazing right they're building economies around causes and much like that talk before with token bonding curves we're using these crypto economic primitives that have been built to change the way donations work right now donations are kind of a suckers game it's really sad but when you there's this tragedy commons idea that when you donate to a charity you lose and everybody else wins the whole world wins because of your support to that cause this is a major incentive alignment issue so giveth in 2020 actually launched an amazing thing called the token engineering commons which started working on realigning incentives around the commons and they built the common stack it took many years in iteration which i'll talk about later to get to this point where thrill theo gets to cope on young and he hears about and he meets his buddy jeff right and jeff is working on this amazing project called the trash hero commons the trash hero commons aims to clean up the beaches of thailand and they don't have to do a whole lot of blockchain work they end up just going to the common stack that giveth has and building out an ecosystem and an economy to build this economy man i don't know mike's talk this is going to be tough guys okay so to build this economy he gathers the experts and stakeholders of that really know what's best how do we clean out the garbage in in beaches of thailand you know it's like you really got to get the people that are doing it the people that are already in the garbage service the people that are already picking up beaches luckily trash hero actually exists right now this is a real organization and they they already have a system of volunteers and people who pick up garbage on the beach so he gets all these guys together and they throw down a hundred thousand x die uh to to uh support the commons to kick to initialize the economy right so just like taibold uh got to tell us all about we're going to start a token bonding curve right okay let's see i'm kind of tall so we're just going to go into there so this is this is the price of the token right oh god my handwriting sucks guys okay and this is the supply of the tokens right trash hero commons tokens and the curve ends up looking like this oh it keeps going yeah oh man oops okay so when they put in their 100 000 x die 50 of it actually goes to this curve so 50 000 x die and so that's the that's right there and so this ends up creating what oh man i didn't give it enough let's go this deep [Music] five mil right they get five million tokens right there huge right so so they throw in 50 000 x die there but then you have this other magical thing over here which is uh the commons so we'll just go like this and we'll say uh argon it's an argon dao spoiler alert uh whatever argdale right and so the this dow we call it the commons and this gets 50 000 x die now they don't get tokens for that but the thing is they don't need tokens for that because geez they're going to kill or deal on this so because they end up only paying average price of right here which is 1.

01 x die right but right here we're now at point zero four so basically the market cap game you know they end up get they end up with a lot more value on paper than what they actually put down but the thing is that sweetheart deal is too good so what we do is we lock their tokens because they could just instantly sell and and take the money you know these guys they're great they really want to clean beaches but we can't have them working in a system against themselves or they have to be thought to be altruistic that's the whole point the whole point is that we build a system where everyone acting in their own best interest propels the commons forward supports the commons people don't need to be working against themselves in a system that's what we have right now in charity so they get these tokens but they're locked they're locked until this thing sends out a hundred thousand x die notice it only has 50 to start they better make this thing a success so their tokens are going to be worth so now uh how do we get more money into this thing well okay i'll get there so basically because theo you know he's no expert he's no expert in actually you know garbage collection he just likes going doing yoga on the beach and is excited about this that's right so and he's sick of like finding all those needles and horrible things ah the beach is dirty in thailand man so he gets he buys in right away because he was hanging out with jeff at all the sovereignty meetups and so he buys in right there pays four cents a token and uh gets the tokens right away but all of his money goes to the curve none of it goes there to start right but then he's like oh i forgot i i need this ex guy to like you know buy a really nice spot on the beach so he's gonna end up selling all of his tokens right away because he just made a mistake oops i forgot so so then when he sells he gets uh let's see i think i need to hit that thing when he sells he ends up getting uh he sells all 25 he he put in a thousand x dive but so but he ends up getting out 980 and then 20 ends up going to the down so what this does is this aligns the incentives whenever someone decides to take a profit they're in they're donating to the commons it's great you know they're paying for projects it's really fun so now everybody's aligned right and what's even better is that people who don't care about thailand's beaches start speculating and they start buying tokens because they think oh man it's really low on this curve and these guys are all experts they're geniuses so like you know the price starts moving up because people are buying and people are selling and as the speaker before said there's a secondary market which this allows for arbitrage and people start like selling into the curve just be to cash in their speculation profits and they keep funding this dow they keep funding the commons by speculating now what's interesting here is that this is a zero-sum game speculating a zero-sum game and it becomes kind of like a casino right where the house is taking a rake but here the house is in a casino that's just putting it in their pocket the house is a charity the house is like trying to make the world a better place and they're using outside people who don't care about it to even make that profit so this is a really interesting ecosystem now with their tokens they they get to actually vote in the dow speculators probably aren't going to vote much right but the people whose tokens are locked like like jeff and the people who actually care about the project like theo they're going to vote because they care which projects actually are are being part of this and they care about actually making an impact in cleaning the beach because they have a horse in the race especially the experts who tokens are locked they're going to end up funding lots of cool projects that you know are like hey let's throw a party you know i want to buy a keg and i want to get like maybe i'll get some strippers and some cool things you know like bring lots of people to thai curry and we're going to have like a huge party on the beach and we're going to clean the whole damn thing right and we're going to do that every tuesday and so that's a project that jeff and theo are excited about supporting and so then it'll vote and it'll get money from this dow but the money in this dow is x die right and they don't receive x die what happens is this x die ends up going into a giveth milestone that's like hey throw one party and prove to us that you can make it fun and then we'll have a reviewer which ends up being theo and if he has a good time at your party then you get your ex die right and then you can use that to fund more parties and more milestones pop up and when this x die gets released when theo actually says yeah that was a badass party man the curry was fantastic uh we're going to actually turn that x die back into the bonding curve and tokens come out and if the guy's throwing the party are like i do it i don't want tokens they just cash it out like they only have to speculate on the tokens for you know 20 seconds because x die is super fast and they can click the buttons pretty quick so but then of course when they cash out they end up paying money they end up paying two percent to the dow and the reason the two percent is so small is so that we can encourage arbitrage with secondary markets okay so that's kind of the design of the system what's really interesting though is how the voting happens we use this thing called conviction voting this is obviously developed you know this we're in 2029 or 2032 or something like that you know and and uh we actually use basically it's not just the people sending tokens but the time that the tokens are behind a proposal and now it's not multiplied there's kind of some math that's involved but the dimension of time is included to kind of make everything curvy so that when people uh pull their tokens away it's not a sharp decline and you get more of a biomimetic experience things are more like how they are in real life so i can go more into conviction voting if you guys ask questions i want to leave time for questions so first this thing starts at thai beaches and they're hanging out in this part of the curve the price goes down price goes up you know it's lots of fun but then they get wild you know because this curve keeps going it keeps going up if they want right if if people start losing faith it might drop below this point and people will you know they'll start exiting but when they exit they're constantly paying money to the to this to the commons so then there starts being money in here that people with tokens get to control so it never really gets to zero because as the previous speaker explained this is a continuous funding model and people will start buying in again right but then all of a sudden the governance starts really kicking ass and they build sustainable models of recycling and using the material over again and they find really cool techniques to keep the beaches clean in thailand now if they actually solved the problem they could just exit the whole thing you know it would take a couple iterations but the whole thing can die because the problem solved it should be able to go away but in the end there's still garbage in the world right so they thai beaches in copenhagen they took over all the islands there is no more government trash collection it's all based off the commons over here and then they once they've basically taken over garbage collection in the islands they start taking bangkok and chiang mai they have this thing on lockdown they've learned how to do this and eventually it's ho chi minh city kuala lumpur and eventually the world that's right trash becomes a non-issue for people in for humans around the world because the trash hero commons has figured it out and they built an economic model where you don't need tax money to pay for garbage collection you don't need to like steal from people i'm sorry i'm a little bit of a crypto anarchist so taxes are fine whatever uh [Applause] but like you don't need to collect taxes to solve the tragedy of the commons you build an economy where everyone participating acting in their own best interest starts supporting the commons but this isn't going to happen overnight we're talking 2037 or whatever right so like it takes a lot of time and where we are right now i'm gonna skip out of theo for a second right where we are right now is token engineering is a very young science and i wouldn't say that it's as robust as civil engineering or chemical engineering when people do real work in the in the world and build real large things you know not billion dollar economies but let's say a bridge they they don't just have a white paper and then start constructing it they actually do a little design validation right they run it through some simulations they they mathematically express what they're trying to do and then they validate that design they use simulations right and then they like really check and formally verify that that math is correct and then they build a prototype and then they're like oh well i guess we thought we'd have this but instead we have that so we go back to the simulation and test what that prototype was like and then they maybe they build a bridge and they realize oh we forgot about the wind and then the tacoma narrows you know like starts waving and and all of a sudden oh yeah we got to add that to the simulations you know and this is what's going to happen with token engineering and especially because of what block science has put together i don't think they've officially released this to the public but there's this tool called cadcad which can really start simulating token economies because token economies are very different than the general economy the general economy when people create a currency with their armies or whatever right they have to they create a regulatory uh body that says what you can't do but with crypto economies we can programmatically say you can't do any of these things we can actually program the things that you can do so we can start simulating these economies we can actually see if the governance model is going to have adverse effects on what the token economy is doing so the days of writing white paper are long gone by 2030. right yeah you write the white paper but then you spend a couple of years designing your economy running it through robust simula simulation tools like cad cad and you have end up with a real implementation that can be iterated on and iterated on until you have something like trash hero commons which ends up taking over garbage collection for all of humanity so we did it we made it this is this is an example of what decentralized governance can look like where it's the participants are enabled to support this stuff right and it builds itself on the foundation of decentralized tools because you don't think we're going to take over garbage collection for all of humanity without decentralized identity decentralized hardware and decentralized internet we need more than just money so uh i want to give a big shout out to jeff emmett who actually wrote about the trash hero commons this is a great blog post that uh kind of dives deep into how token bonding curves work and how curation markets work in general uh michael zargham who is the man the like i don't know kind of like alien from the future that works at block science guys genius uh and of course alan and lorely who helped me make this uh presentation palatable so uh i i can open it up for questions uh i work closely with these four organizations and a little bit with argon too but uh if you guys ask me an argon question it's just going to jorge right here right so uh yeah well he's got the mic oh yeah voluntary voluntary taxes so okay so a question from kevin from my crypto was that is that two percent always just a flat fee or can it be a variable obviously i gave the explanation of like what we're hoping to do with the token engineering commons but when when this when money comes here i'm hoping that that fee would be somehow controlled by the variable of how much money is in in the commons itself like that seems like something that might make more sense but i gotta you know cut the scope a little bit for the explanation thanks for the great talk griff uh so i have two things i'm skeptical about the first one is the hairstyles in the future and very fair and the second one is so in this model you're actually taxing each transaction right each buy and each cell so basically the incentives for the dao is an active like buy and sell microsoft a calm curve bond won't generate as much as a volatile curve bond so this is kind of like options and futures where like the incentive of the dow becomes maybe pump and dump uh on the curve repeated pumps and dumps you know so might be kind of violent experience for any outside investor so any kind of comments on that yeah i mean i had to give a relatively simple example because we haven't built one yet you know we really need to build a commons and see the unknown unknowns uh this is probably the best way to align incentives i at least are or a first way to align incentives but until this thing is built and we see what does it look like if it's super volatile i mean that's like you said that's what we would want because that just keeps feeding the commons but does that have other negative side effects on people that are participating in the end this is a governance token does it need to be volatile i mean these are questions that i think i'm excited to really see what happens and not theory let's put so much theory behind it and guessing let's build one you know let's build one and see we'll of course do real robust engineering we'll design it or it's not going to be like just like kick it out and then like throw it out you know and see what happens we'll do the best that we can to design it and then it's just the first one and then we iterate and we see the problems we see problems we can't even theorize about and then keep going and keep going until we're there it's a long game yeah oh no more questions ah shout it who's coming next oh yalda you're next here can i ask questions while she's uh okay yeah it's like 20 years man yeah i'm sorry i'm sorry hey our lifetime our lifetime yeah i'm excited to see wh yeah so he's talking about like changing this curve a little bit so that it's a little more exciting maybe maybe we go like this and and we go up and then we go down and and you know we can like start capturing people at these points and get them stuck there like maybe man like i'm excited to see what we do with this stuff token bonding curves are so young and most people are just doing lines or like fomo 3d you know like i i i want to see i'm excited to see what happens here but you know the cool thing is we'll probably do that in a simulation and we'll see well that's crazy it's not gonna work you know and then but maybe it does we'll see okay thanks guys [Applause]