Institutional Innovations in Public Goods Resource Distribution (Panel) - Tokyo 2024

okay everybody and we're back from our break we are going to start with a really special panel today uh we have some really incredible panelist here I want to start by welcoming a very special guest today um I am Mia Gucci uh the executive director of the ethereum foundation also goes as eclectic dreamer as well uh can we give a round of applause for a for taking the time to be here with us today uh an Allstar yeah and um so we also have other panelists joining us today uh we have Christopher from UNICEF Innovation uh we also have kuseni uh mashiro from digital agency in Japan and taka joining us again from plurality Tokyo and yeah I'll pass it off to you all to give your uh panel all right uh I going to join to as a Mia I'm very proud to uh invite this incredible tent right this so let me quick introduction of on my background what's in my mind um the UNICEF is foundation and digital agency uh let's say they kind of like a notion of the government the UNICEF is kind of the Department of the United Nation and the is foundation the structure of the Distributing money for the isim ecosystem as you know digal agency is kind of one with the Department of the government of Japan especially focus on the uh digital policy making right there um I very um interested about your perspective of the each entity uh each size of the organization so um let me let me mention about um you UNF under gitcoin also the is foundation has experimented to the money distribution by Quadra funding I think so uh how to start the collaboration with the UNICEF and the Eastern Foundation a and Chris uh uh hello everyone um so okay just so should I just maybe I can also do a quick intro of the etherum foundation because no one really understand what we do um so the foundation one thing I always say whenever I meet uh a new person or I go to a new place the ethereum foundation doesn't own ethereum that is a very important statement we don't because uh many other things are owned by a company company and then etherum is a project that is um you know supported by all the contributors in the community and this ecosystem and then we support uh uh different activities in the ecosystem and funding is one of the activities we do uh because that is also important um originary when the EF like the foundation EF was founded the focus was to fund the core infrastructure platform work uh for etherum platform to to be made and the contributors are those open- Source contributors but since public goods uh don't have business model uh someone needs to support funding and that was the main focus in the beginning and uh and then that the ecosystem or the community of eam PL the platform layer has gone a lot and so it is it has a lot more than just a small number of developers and researchers that etherum Foundation uh has uh so our work is to we support those work uh but but also glad while the ecosystem system is glowing there are many other things that are happening such as educational work like someone needs to explain what is the them and um the new terms like what is there too or uh and how to use that also educate new Builders uh we need a lot of developers to build the platform layer but also build applications on top of it that's you know like a solutions to the society so that can be also public goods in the society so uh we shifted our law into more like the like diverse uh type of law supporting uh educational work and so not just uh sorry development and research work but uh important our important philosophy is that we try not to do everything uh and it's very important for the ecosystem to Glow also over organically so if something is going well uh we don't we we try not to um make it our our thing meaning the EF thing so that's that's how we work and and then and then I met uh uh so he's also Chris there's another Chris I met Chris favian who has uh part of Unicef Innovation team uh he was one of the uh people who was leading the team back in uh end of 2018 in Tokyo actually so I have to actually mention because without that meeting a lot of things that we are seeing in the ecosystem collaboration between UNICEF and uh the crypto space uh may not have happened uh and I just uh natur because United Nations organization is very big we're very tiny uh group I wasn't really sure about the fit uh before meeting the person but uh so Chris favian had this vision of how to bring Innovation not just to support Innovative uh technology it's more like bring Innovation to the organization of Unicef and then when I heard that Vision um I thought this is if if someone is willing to do the Bold uh work a very very um you know uh blve work that maybe we can help support that and then that's when we started talking about UNICEF crypto fund which maybe quis can explain more and and then that is was a big milestone and that led to UNICEF coming to more of ethereum event and hackathons and uh they sometimes run their own actually educational um events for new beginners to get into the building um applications so and that led to the getcoins partnership and and then uh UNICEF using cortic funding which I'm not going to explain too much now because I don't want to be the only person to talk so will let you talk uh thank you so I'm also going to just give a bit of a context because I I bet that many of the people in the room are asking themselves a question why the heck is UNICEF part of this event so UNICEF is not a tech company but UNICEF has to become a bit of a tech company as we're moving forward as the underlying infrastructure for many of the programs that we deliver in education and Health and Social protection is becoming a a digital public infrastructure and so I represent unicef's office of innovation and we uh do work in uh blockchain and in crypto in drones AI uh XR uh we're very strong in the global digital policym on digital public goods and and very strong advocates for open source uh so we have uh maybe not not a huge digital muscle uh but we're I think very often are punching above our weight so so that's one thing um the second important thing to mention is that the underlying thesis of the unicef's office of innovation is open source we probably um stronger than any other United Nations agency um are advocating for open source as uh the best way to build a just and Sovereign and sustainable digital future so obviously this links us very closely with this community um uh and that's how we uh linked with uh a and team and also with the funding the comment crypto fund the fact that crypto fund exists it it should not exist okay yes it's like those Salmons that are trying to swim up the stream that can never make it uh like we for whatever reason made it um the controllers of other un agen gencies who are also doing Explorations with with crypto and with blockchain they still cannot believe that there is actually a crypto fund within UNICEF that that can accept and disperse crypto uh why why is it crazy uh well because we are a huge bureaucracy and things take uh it's not weeks it's months or or years um and uh to jump through the many obstacles and Hoops to actually make this thing work within the existing structures that was not an easy feat and this is when I Was preparing for this chat um I thought that this is this is the our definition of success and probably the biggest challenge everything that we're going to be talking today about crypto blockchain quadratic funding can we make it work within the existing structures of our organizations within the existing boundaries and limitations these boundaries and limitations that we have at UNICEF they will not change this is just what it is it's it's I mean they may be their change in 15 years but we don't have this time so so this is for me the main question where we're doing any exploration in this space are are we going to be able to do this within or are we going to have to do it without in in a sense of outside uh the last thing I'm going to say um as the be like for the beginning um remarks is that um if I look at a sort of time Horizon you said 2018 was when when we started working together and maybe I look towards let's say 2030 where actually that's the the the sort of horizon for the sustainable development agenda I would say that in 2018 this space was in it was interesting for us but it was definitely not existential it's interesting it's explorative it's additional uh when I look at what's happening today uh first of all in the context of global crisis uh there is just another one you know every single day there is more crisis and there is less money from funders so this entire new dimension of support um including funding as well it's slowly becoming it's not existential yet but we anticipate that it might be existential for us in five years or seven years and that's because we support the digital public goods ecosystem and digital public goods need funding okay uh so so this is this is why we're here to to add the magnitude of this is how important that that project was um I always think it's like what you said that was a crazy idea shouldn't exist LEL is is that um I think among all the un uh organizations UNICEF receives most amount of donations right am I correct UNICEF receives most amount of donations from the board we're definitely on the like towards the top among and there are 50 agencies there are five big agencies and we are definitely up there on the top yeah and then institutional donations of course exist and that's a huge amount but also if when you go to an airport you always see this UNICEF poster or you know like like we like a transparent B yeah like like personal personally everyone donates to UNICEF right and then there's a huge fun sitting there and then of course they are doing a lot of great work but this was the startup making the movement of fund transparent and doing that starting with UNICEF was a freaking crazy idea uh but I loved it and that's why that we wanted to support and um it it's it's something most of the public organizations don't do yet but it showed an a great example to the word like hey if UNICEF can do this so that was that was very important message that they were able to send and I because it was not easy right until very last moment they made an announcement at Deon NOA in Japan actually 2019 uh I remember until the night before they were saying oh we St haven't finished getting signature from all the lawyers involved or something so so it was um but anyway it's it's it's this this type of decision by leadership is really shaping the world I I I am fortunate to was I was able to witness that um by the way I'm just wondering that you guys have a different perspective also the different work to the uh public goods even the digital public goods maybe like uh digital agency it seems like uh you're creating kind of digital infrastru infrastructure for the our citizen for the nation also like a res Foundation is trying to supporting the people who making the digital public goods also UNF is it looks like a similar so I'm just wondering um in your definition in your work what is the Dig public goods and what is the D public goods program right now also history or your opinion right there uh oh it's a little difficult question and uh I director general of digital agency and P I uh bu Social Security and tax number system and data exchange for that past 11 years it is one of uh important uh digital public in infrastructure in Japan I think and it is uh funded by government multi billion dollars uh now uh Japanese government always uh investing by ourselves but in historically I think uh at in Japan digital public infrastructure by built by fundraising not uh uh investing by government I think it is a telecommunications network over 100 years ago at that time uh uh telephone sub subscription like uh served by government and it it is one of the way of fundraising and it has a secondary Market of this light I think historically if we need to uh fund raing it is one of option for that currently most of uh countries uh invested by their own but I think uh digital public goods not only for uh country but also across border I think identity ecosystem and the data exchange not not only for National issues but also cross border issues I think on the on that case we don't have enough funding from uh government and international organization I think it is one of the great opportunity for crypto ecosystem because I think uh many many uh individuals want investing such kind of uh field and many many opport uh opportunity to D on cross border not only a uh major countri but also crossb I think it is very important and uh opportunities on this field I think but I think it's little difficult how to define digital public infrastructure but if anyone wants that and it's not uh only only uh business but also uh Network externality and uh uh some kinds of public goods like uh property I think uh it may be a digital uh digital public infra structure I think thank you uh I think the the element of sustainability is is super important uh as I mentioned before the crisis are growing and the the funding is is thinning out uh or maybe even if it's not thinning out the crisis are just growing so exponentially there's just not going to be enough donors and and and money uh you know to to save children's lives uh from my UNICEF perspective uh so there needs to be some sort of a uh mechanism uh to uh to make it work and so this is this is this is kind of where we're looking at the our our quadratic funding exploration that that we did that was something you know very early stage and and very small scale uh but in term in the context of digital public goods if you're familiar with with digital public goods now uh it's a you know it's a concept governed by the digital public goods Alliance and you can go to their website and there is a registry and there is a list and if you're a government in Sierra Leon technically uh you should go to this registry um see if you need a digital platform for Education the registry sorts the digital public goods by sdgs so you should click number four and maybe there is a solution that's similar to one that you would like to develop to solve your challenge but it's just a list a list is not a great thing in general uh there is very little you can do with the list so what we're working right now and this is a teaser um before the November uh funding the comments um in Bangkok where we hope we're going to have something bigger to to announce as as UNICEF uh is we're trying to understand if we can convert the list into some sort of a marketplace where the crowd the funding and the intent intersect uh and I think there C this is this may be the answer to the sustainability um question the sustainability of um of uh of of funding um the sustainability of hands developers hands that will keep developing the solution but also the relevance because problems are not static uh problems are dynamic they change um and so we also need this kind of contribution we need to know what people's voices are uh from the ground what they what they really need um so again like this space is is really interesting to us and I think we're really nearing this moment where we think it's going to be existential rather than just interesting and curious um maybe I'm going to talk about a little bit different angle of public goods uh when we say public goods originary public goods images like a non-digital public goods were governed or funded by governments uh in back in old days and then because of the innovation of internet now there a lot of goods happening in this in the digital space uh and that can be ideas Solutions just knowledge um and then how do we how do we fund those F well this this event is funding the commons but the funding part is is just one part but how do we um even govern the idea or the knowledge in the digital space um so there are actual Solutions such as digital uh decentralized digital IDs are happening in uh our space um and but then like can this ID needs to be owned by or funded by or governed by a government that's also a question that's been asked now so a lot of uh Innovation Technical Innovations are making it possible for all the aspect of public goods including funding to be owned by not just by government yeah owned by as Community can be communities so that ownership is is almost like moving back to individual and I think that's the important uh or interesting right interesting part that uh we are having discussions together so um when I for example even like a UNICEF project is by making it digitalized and then by make it on on chain like okay that's that's another step that they made and then by doing that it is making normally it used to be run by only by big institutions and governments between the governments but we can we we be part of the funding but also we can be part of the discussion of how the fund should be used so I think that is a very important part of innovations that we are seeing now um this is very interesting um this is a r question for the all I'm just curious about what is the end game of the each entity as a organization like a govern governance for example like uh the agency going to be disolution at the end or un it's going to be disolution at the end or maybe you can mention about Network externality positive externality um about category of the goods right some of the goods could uh could see like a this are probably good the reason is maybe they have a positive externality in the Press some game like then so uh let's say what's the future structure of your own organization oh thank you I but I think uh I think National agency interest is very local and uh yeah and uh we don't care about interoperability for cross border but I think it this situation may change because of we already know crypto ecosystem and uh interoperability of tokens and I think uh currently uh on the 9 19 1990s uh identity ecosystem are built by a smart card but now we are integrate these on a smartphone and uh care about interoperability for uh International AC cross border use cases I think I it is inspired from uh crypto ecosystem I think uh Europe European Government tried to develop uh digital identity wallet and we catch up in uh us and Japan also catch up in such kind of concept I think uh not only uh uh funding fundraising not only fundraising and uh built by themselves but also uh uh making sand box and uh building uh uh influence and uh building a proof of concept is also uh important and I think uh a past uh quarter Century many many uh crypto Innovation uh such kind of gr BL and many many uh uh High functional cryptography but uh government don't use such kind of Technology because of uh we are very care about risks and uh no non uh experience to use that but I think uh this situation may change by cryp ecosystem on past 10 years I think it is a great uh change um maybe great change and we we will care about the cross B interoperability and uh such kinds of emerging Technologies I think we we already uh get influence from such kinds of ecosystem I think thank you I have three things to say first of all un will not change UNICEF will not change uh there are probably meetings in calendars for 2032 already set up on projects that are happening now okay uh so again I'm going to come back to the question we should be doing all of these Explorations we should be doing all of this work and the most important question is is it is it can we make it work within the structures that are already existing or do we have to find ways and sometimes we will have to find ways outside of the system so that's one thing uh the second thing I want to say is we we have to be less passionate I'll explain uh very often uh especially from people who are hesitant about these new technologies these people look at us and say oh it's like some weird passionate people uh we are passionate but we need facts um and that's why knowledge is super important just as everyone in this room should know and this is my task should know about what UNICEF is doing everything about digital what we're doing that we have a crypto fund B by the way who in this room knew before this discussion that UNICEF has a crypto fund and we can accept and disperse crypto raise your hand and it's a very biased crowd and this is what uh 10 10 10% right this is terrible everyone should know about the work that we do so that we can get your help and support okay so that's extremely important and there's no passion in that there is just like sweat Blood and Tears and and work so that's the second thing third thing I just wanted to link to what you said in your previous um remarks about the community and the importance of community in this and that links to digital trust I'm gonna read one thing I didn't actually think I was going to read it but I'm gonna read it so this is a quote the reality is that young people wants to be included in the decision making not just to consume what has been prepared by a few where they don't have any say or options this is a quote from a young demonstrator in Nairobi which I heard 10 days ago in those demonstrations that are happening now okay I think we are you know all of us here building digital public infr structure especially the governments especially in un system we spent billions of dollars on this and we assume that the Next Generation young people will want to use it but if we don't include include them in in building those systems we're going to get the same quote and the same demonstrator in 10 years throwing rocks at us because we didn't include them now so this is my small call to action include young people in whatever you you do okay I will try to make it quicker with the request from taka but um uh you well the to the question that that what whether how the eum foundation is going to be in the very long-term future is not actually we we do think about this but it's not the most important things the that the the important question is what kind of world we want to see in the end it's not even about uh crypto it's not even about ethereum and um because there's a word we want to see and then I use sometimes I often use our vision of infinite Garden where I want to see more infinite games happening like people are working together not really someone just winning um and then for that to happen and also for us to actually have Solutions in the world and then make the world better place uh it's it's it's we we can just be talking to people inside this small ethereum or crypto space and that's why this type of event this this is why I wanted to support this event uh I'm a fun of the work that uh funding the common is doing also plurality work is very uh making very important conversations and we do need to have that type of conversation because technology is there almost there it's available to build but how we build and how we make the decision is now we have to talk about that more than before um so I will end that my my my uh comment with that yeah thank you so much uh we should be the recap of this one um we have our great ch right this so if you want to interest in talking with your idea or your perspective you should be talking with them uh that's all from us thanks so March