️‍Tokenomics: How to Create Sustainable Web3 Gaming

[Music] hello everyone welcome uh we are all exciting to learn about gaming I personally never gamed in my life so I'm probably not the most popular person here um but I have with me my esteemed panelists and we're very keen to talk about the gaming the future of web free in gaming but also cover not just just you know the broader world but also what's happening in Middle East and I think what we're going to talk is about the current trends how we see this happening how do we see the future in the next three to five years and we have uh quite a lot of different perspectives both from the more gaming world uh more from investment side and also uh from somebody who's based in the region and has been here for the last 30 years so uh welcome to my panelists thank you so much for being with me today and for coming uh so far some of us uh to he uh I'll start with my questions so Han uh you have a very popular game and it's really popular outside of Middle East across many many many countries right and I hear that you're expanding you want to expand in the region uh so what attracts you to the region and what do you think is going to be kind of the next big step here yeah so uh so just kind of uh set the stage so I'm from a game company that's building game card League of Kingdoms which is the world's first uh blockchain based MMO game and we're uh of late we're expending to a game publishing platform and our single vision is to to bring web3 to the mass to make uh to make building and launching and playing web3 game as effortless as possible and in as part of that Journey a Mina the Middle Eastern region uh holds a very special place so we have been active we've been have have been very present in the region uh we have a publisher on the ground and for more than four years and the market has grown to be one of the top five Jos playing our games today and I think this just the beginning it's I think there's a huge potential for Thea market and we're continue to cultivate that and uh it's one of your top five regions right for expansion all right all right and the while coming to you you've been in the region for a very long period of time and your company has been very successful with the token in particular just recently it's been growing and you've been working with the government in terms of you know the metaverse and how to use it for the gaming can you tell us a bit more what you see as the key potential and key risks as well yeah sure hi uh so I'm belal from the sandbox um I guess a little bit more context so I'm based in Saudi Arabia and and the sandbox really started um around six seven months ago uh you know we're kind of establishing our our presence here in the region and maybe to to answer your question and I know you mentioned government so I speak about those of you who who Who's heard me speak before I speak about this a lot and what I find is really different when it comes to our region here whether it's in you know the UAE or whether it's in in Saudi Arabia is as you can see we're all here gathered Under One Roof and this is all you know supplied by the government so this is what I personally love about the region and what I've seen like in the past let's say five six years in the development that's been happening is that we really work with Regulators we work with you know government entities to not necessarily establish establish uh you know regulation but this is this is why the the future or the you know in this region it's extremely bright and on a more of a Sandbox uh uh on a more of a Sandbox note we're we're really partnering with regional you know entities whether it's in the UAE or in Saudi I mentioned those two countries because that's kind of where we're focused on right now and they're we're allocating land to them on on the metaverse and you know building huge experiences so I think I think if you're not in in this region yet you have to be here I know thanks to Hast and hub71 we have so many um like such a diverse uh amount of people here you know from all around the world and a lot I I personally know so much more about the Korean culture now because because of Hasan I find that amazing so um yeah thank you for setting all this up thank you so much and Casper we want to talk about the tokenomics which is really the core of the session what is the long-term game of tokenomics how do you see it okay that uh that could take up the rest of the afternoon so let me just uh well first let me introduce Spartan so we are a uh venture capitalist and Investment Group so we have two Venture funds and a Ed fund for liquid tokens one of our Venture funds is focus solely on gaming and metaverse um we have about 100 portfolio companies in in the web 3 space there um then we also have an investment banking business where we do m&a and capital markets work all for web 3 so we also work with gaming companies on launching their tokens so kind of figuring out the tokenomics figuring out where to list their market makers what investors to get go to market all these things so so on tokenomics um gaming tokens so far have had kind of a mixed uh response in the market generally not done as well as as other tokens um a large part of that is probably not necessarily down to the to economics themselves but just the fact that compared to many other apps like a defi app it takes much longer to build a game especially like a strong engaging game be it a mobile game or uh whatever type of game it is it's just a huge investment of time and and capital um and then so so that's that's point one so it takes a while for the game just a game game traction and even get built and if you have a token floating out there before that happens of course it's not tied to anything so people might lose interest second then in um in terms of in the game the The key thing is really what we call token syns which you know another way of saying places where you use and spend the token like you need if you think about an economy of fiat currency or tokens like there needs to be an economy where people spend the currency and then also where you can earn the currency and it needs to be like a natural cycle there right and you want to keep it in the ecosystem and um that is still I would say evolving um there's a lot of different uh some some tokens are for a single game um but the ones that we think will probably be more successful are the ones for more like gaming platforms where they kind of provide provide a platform for other to um like you know um like my my co- panelist where you provide a platform for someone to build on it and then you it kind of comes with a token currency out of the box and and you can tap into that ecosystem and then the users can use the token across the whole ecosystem but there has to be this kind of flywheel of uh supply and demand of the token and that that is I mean you're getting into kind of like economics and you know finance and like it's not just like Tech and web 3 and all funing games so to speak it's really really difficult to design um but the the token syncs is like is the is the main thing where there's got to be like a really cure use case for the tokens and you got to put yourself in the place of the uh the holders of the tokens and the players to to think about like if I was here would I be using this token um in this case and would I also be willing to put in the work to earn the token on the other side I was just wondering do we have any questions from the audience cuz I want to make it a little bit interactive yes I don't know if we're going to hear you but if not I'm going come my name is sa gen zotov uh I'm also from The Venture Capal sphere more than 6 years and uh 3 months I'm a Founder first time in my life uh uh this is s platform for uh telegram mini apps and the majority of them are now are games so we create them you can create an app in 1 hour and um monetize them it's somehow like a Sandbox but we have a vendor as a telegram uh so and uh uh this is about the implementation because uh when you have just one token in the ecosystem at it was somehow connected with the previous panel yes so you have a different ecosystems like like Roblox uh they have this Rob Robo or whatever uh like sandbox token like uh uh three merge token and so on so far you should have some kind of exchange some kind of cross tokenomics uh deflation and inflation so what do you think about this next step when uh the different ecosystems because like sandbox will never allow his customers go to telegram but his very welcome uh if it will be uh uh backward so uh what do you think about the next step not about the current economics of a particular produ uh project but the next step of how these big uh names big like Wales ecosystems will communicate with uh each other in terms of G like gaming yeah thank you well I would say that that that's an interesting question I'd say we still haven't even nailed having tokens work in one ecosystem let alone across ecosystem so it's it's something that will come over time but um and kind of the whole point of tokens or or in-game assets that are effectively nfts Al the nft is kind of like a three-letter word right now or four-letter word whatever you want to say right but it's the reality is it's an onchain asset and you want to be able to Port it across schemes and you want to use it in sandbox and other metaverses and in different games right so there needs to be that part of that is technical in terms of where the asset lives like what chain is it like technically can you even move it across and then there's also the question of well can you just natively do that and then you move an asset into sandbox and if sandbox decides to give the asset some qualities it has whatever qualities it gives them and if they don't then it's just kind of sitting there but doesn't have any use that that's kind of native that that that could happen natively if the assets technically can move and then it you know the other question is then okay the the token if that if you want these economies to interact that becomes difficult that becomes more like a a macro question of like fiat currency is interacting and what's the exchange rate and so forth now yeah but that will brings the big Capital because while it's the token inside one ecosystem like maybe few funds are in interested but when it becomes like sandbox World of Tanks uh I don't know blizzard uh wet three merch uh uh when they are becoming uh like uh no it's like how it's called the uh InterContinental economy yes it uh this big Capital will uh will be interested and uh big Capital can be acquired as a collateral for all these uh exchange uh systems this is what I feel will be the next step because for for example the telegram it's 1 billion users but it's uh the problem we solve it's a gray zone for the advertisers it means that ton is like not so very known uh token but as soon as this problem will be solved it's 1 billion 1 billion users Roblox 4.3 billion like 10 cent uh 1 .7 billion so it's huge and I think that uh if uh big Brands now starting to collaborate on these terms what will be the exchange rate you mentioned and all these things it can be uh they can boost this new era much more faster and then the big Capital will come not only for the bdcs and so on so forth this is my thoughts so what do you think uh about that like time frames when when you three can uh shake hands and make a a new token yeah um look to be honest I'm just kind of going to Echo what what you were saying I think we're still like establishing what we're in right now before we get there like I still think really far away what you're talking about is still like really really far away and I think what I noticed at least and I was having this discussion with someone earlier today is at least from the sandbox shoes we don't really like like track our token we don't really look like every day checking our to you know we don't really do that I think at the end end of the day it's the product that you build at least from our from our point of view this is this will reflect on your token eventually so uh that's what that's what I think about that yeah I think uh to kind of uh to add wrinkles to what Builder said uh I think this that has always been like the new Star we want interoperable you know interconnected we have the infra to to power that just there is no like less incentive for these different ecosystem to work together it could be like when the tokens are like much widely distributed and that can the the ton hold holders the ownership of tukon can even in itself become a platform and it's not Network effect it's not close loop but it can uh play a role over the sort of network effect type of power that can uh give incentives for other ecosystem to adopt it but in that case the ecosystem can expand uh much faster yeah so yeah that's what I think so I just wanted to slightly interrupt because I was uh told off slightly to stick to the plan schedule but we had another question from Dr Ming and if you don't mind maybe we can ask it after after well that's definitely a four-letter word in crypto Central Banking um yeah I mean me and my co-founders all from Goldman Sachs originally and spent between 10 and 10 and 20 years there um so we we do have a trafi background before we started Spartan seven eight years ago um you know yeah I think Central Bank banking is economics and there are a lot of Economics um behind this and actually a lot of people a lot of projects have economists either on staff or as consultants to help develop the token model um and it can get pretty complex just like you know economic systems um I'd say the foundations right now that typically with a token you'll have a foundation that holds most of the token and they'll have like certain allocations like this is for business development for ecosystem this is for rewards depending on how the blockchain you know or the the app works um and for at least the initial period of time it is fairly centralized to that Foundation but there are examples of you know foundations that have reached a level of maturity where they're more decentralized and they become more and more decentralized that's the thinking behind the Dao system too and then it does maybe perform the Central Bank function but it's no longer political it's more like if you imagine a central bank but it's through like every decision is through a vote you know of like a uh yeah basically a a public vote right like soundbox Dow is a good example of that yeah thank you so much for your question Dr Ming um I think the next step is the panelist will stay here a little bit so that you can have a proper Q&A with them in private because I'm being told of so uh if we just go to maybe one key takeaway from each one of you on the topic what do you see you know as the future either the opportunity or the risk but uh just in a very summarized version yeah start off so uh I I think as a so we're in gaming industry so I think the games for for when when we building web three games we we uh want we have to put games as entertainment first and that's tokens next so that's what uh so basically we need to use web 3 to solve the problem that web to traditional Tech in gaming cannot solve uh so that I think that's that's what that's the approach that that we're really uh focused on yeah I'll just add to that um I don't think I don't think in web 3 gaming we're not trying to convert web2 Gamers that's that's what I would like to add um it's kind of solving solutions that were not available in web 2 but also I think creating a totally new ecosystem and to answer your question Alina I think just what I said at the beginning if you're thinking about coming to our region and you're not here yet then you should be here that's that's my key takeaway what do you think well on the topic of web 3 gaming I do think that um if you think about usage of of web 3 in general I mean obviously a lot of people are now invested in Bitcoin ethereum salana uh or different forms of altcoins in in their wallet to to different extents um so there is uh adoption of web3 as a financial asset but in terms of number of those people that actually use the tokens or than paying gas on a on a blockchain to actually get the token or use it to for payments like the use cases are still emerging and the usage of the token as intended is still not huge I do think that and one of the reasons why we're bullish on web 3 gaming in general is it it is a very very clear use case and a very obvious way to get a lot of people into web 3 whether they're web 2 Gamers or not um and games are getting better and better at kind of putting it a little bit behind the the fold so to speak so that you you just the key is that the game is fun to play people want to interact with it play with it and then over time they can gradually realize that this in-game currency actually is on the blockchain and you can move it across to other chains or you can take it or other games where you can take it like out of the system and actually sell it and same with you know the sword that they want in the battle they realize that oh wow I can Port this to another game completely different game and it has this function and this power there so I I do think over time it'll be a huge funnel for people into web 3 and then from there they can move to other parts of web 3 so that's why we're very bullish on web 3 gaming that's why we have a gaming fund and you know I think it's it's a very important sector for web 3 thank you so much to my esteemed panelists thank you so much to Their audience we'll be here for some time if you want to ask the questions to the panelists thank you [Applause] [Music] what