Modernizing Government & Public Goods Though Technology – Panel Discussion

on hello world thanks for coming today my name is Erik Whitner I'm a corporate and securities attorney at law firm called snow murder in Denver I was also fortunate to be a part of the Colorado blockchain Council where we had some some new legislation that was passed last session around digital token Act it was part of that and honored to be here moderating a panel today on government and how we can impact social good and we've got a really great panel and I'll let them introduce themselves and we really want to try to make this educational and try to really share so many information we're learning with all the rest of you so welcome thank you go ahead hi everybody it's my mic on you guys hear me great hi everybody I'm Corbin page and I'm head of product at consensus codify so we're generally the technology partners that are brought in to do advisory work pilots and POCs with different governments around the world about web 3 and about blockchain I would say a couple years ago we were seeing a lot of identity a lot of registry type use cases and more recently it's been a focus on central bank digital currencies as well as different tokenized assets specifically music municipal bonds in the government space hi everybody it's it's kind of loud so we can't really hear ourselves up here my name is Jeff Mutchnick I am an attorney with a firm called launch legal here in Denver I'm a technology attorney and have been counseling blockchain companies and different industries for the last four years or so really excited to be counseling AAPIs who's doing amazing things in this space as well and whose part of each Denver can you I'm Hannah Parsons and I'm here with exponential impact which is an early stage technology accelerator so this is our third year here at Eve Denver and we've had each year in 2018 and 2019 we've had companies that have been participating in this hackathon who have then ultimately come through our early-stage accelerator and received an equity investment and those companies are still in business and it's been great to see some of these ideas go from concept to business over the years and we can talk a little bit about what use cases we're seeing there but I'm jared olson from Wyoming I serve in the Wyoming legislature represent district 11 in Cheyenne I'm just a simple big city lawyer for what that means in Wyoming is a population of 60,000 people a couple years ago I got together with an old cowhand from Northeast Wyoming Tyler Lynn Houma and and together we started the block team task force ransom legislation you may have heard of it kind of set the groundwork for the regulatory framework in the in the country and just I was here last year really excited to be here great conversation love to hear how everything's moving forward and and happy that too Hicks from Wyoming could contribute good afternoon everybody I'm sad but I am the blockchain architects for the state of Colorado and we are super happy to be at Denver for the first time this year we've got some use cases that some of the teams are working on upstairs that we're excited to see how they how they flesh out we're in the midst of formulating what our what our policy is and technology stacks look like in terms of blockchain and how it can help enhance the data availability transparency and trust within Colorado state data so that you mentioned that you're working on some use cases so I'd like to first start our first question about what are the big use cases for government and why do you think blockchain can solve these problems absolutely so I think that you know the big use case the big giant bullseye is not is not necessarily where were where we're headed directly I think the big giant bullseye clearly is self sovereign identity and all that goes along with that in terms of owning your own data in terms of owning access and being able to provision your own credentials looking at asset ownership like vehicles land all of those sorts of things tie into identity so I think that rather than trying to boil that ocean out of the gate we're looking at taking some smaller slices that that look at what the periphery is around identity and figure out how those use cases are able to track back in a proof-of-concept way that provides value to the agencies and the businesses and the people who have to interact with those agencies and businesses and you know that you guys have there's a colorado DMV app right where you upstairs you can put your app for your ID right on your phone so is there is there additional things other than self sovereign identity which is this you know great idea I think everybody's reaching for it but I mean that's that creates a tremendous amount of change in the legal requirements of how what data how we store data are there are there other interesting projects that you could talk about that are focused on how blockchain can make our daily lives better in terms of visa vie the government yeah I think the the Colorado digital identification program is a very interesting first step in on-ramp to get people sort of used to the idea of being able to provide identity information in a more limited way that allows them to basically shield certain aspects of data for the particular use case that's at hand so if you need to go into a liquor store and and buy alcohol legally you have to be 21 you don't have to have that that person know where you live you don't need to them to know your specific birth date so being able to shield that is something that we've introduced in my Colorado digital ID and I think that it starts to get by and from the public and people begin to understand how they can be in control of their data and and who they share it with I think that the the surrounding use cases that are very blockchain specific that are that are identity related such as providing attestation endpoints for kyc applications will provide a great value and ease especially for people who are looking if you if you've registered on a crypto exchange which I'm guessing most of you have you know taking taking a scan of your driver's license or your ID and trying to go through that process can be cumbersome if if that's smoothed out at least for the residents of Colorado by providing attestation endpoints for kyc on a on a application layer then you know all the better that makes your life easier it certainly makes the life easier the exchange operators and I think that there are so many areas in which that can help people interact with government services more smoothly and in Wyoming you guys really spark something amazing with a movement towards what can we do we do at a state level to change the laws to adopt the laws to adapt to this new and new economy new asset class new opportunities you said you had this great meeting with an old cowhand from from Wyoming so what were you hoping to get out of that that solution what what do you hope that that helps improve citizens of Wyoming's lives on a daily basis sure so there's I mean there's so many bases to cover I would just say number one number one base is the bank and so we're talking about right now we have two applications in and I consider that at this point real-world it's hitting the ground the assets are committed and they're there and what does that really mean and how does that circle back to the citizens of Wyoming well I mean you know think of an entity that holds four billion five six billion dollars in assets whatever it is and they're paying tens of thousands of dollars annually across the country to deal with money transmitter laws and compliance across all of these states and then here we are in Wyoming when we said hey is there a different way we can do that yeah we and we can get rid of all of that and that's basically what we did and now we've got we got two world two real world applications how does that filter down through well I you know to the citizens of Wyoming it's gonna come in many different ways it's of course gonna come in in jobs but also when when you're a company that's not spending tens of millions of dollars on those compliances it drives companies to Wyoming so those are real-world things for for for Wyoming I'd say that's number one but you know the list the list goes on I want to talk about one thing that was just mentioned you know how does and that's dealing with the it--with your identity and protecting your your data and knowing that you own your data and I think there's really two major things getting ready to happen in Wyoming that we're moving forward now one deals with deals with owning your data but in in a different respect and that's with the code itself so the speech itself something I'm really excited about in Wyoming right now is is our protection of digital speech laws that's moving through Wyoming and as I as I've moved around even here today I've talked to folks who who are pointing the real world prosecutions in real world cases and so being able to not just own your understand that you own your data but that you own and have a protection for what you create so the freedom to code the freedom to develop the freedom to be the entrepreneur that you want to be knowing that that is protected like any other form of speech digital expression that's huge and so I think that's really gonna hit the map for citizens and for the country when it moves forward in Wyoming now Hannah you and I were on the blockchain Council here in Colorado together and and you had a chance to work with your work with the incubator in Colorado Springs a lot of companies that are coming through that are looking for opportunities with government or maybe through grants or maybe through partnerships or maybe through actually it's providing service to them as a vendor maybe you talk a little bit about how you think this effort to try to bring government to be able to use blockchain technology for social good can have a positive impact how you can see this accelerate sort of the development of these new companies that are coming forth that you've seen in the in the incubator space great yes so we've had we've had several companies come through the accelerator and then now participate in our incubator that are blockchain based and one of the best examples I would say of a government partnership with one of those companies and it is vital foods so they are in the supply chain traceability industry and they received this year they went through the accelerator in 2018 and then into the incubator program and then this year they received nearly a half million dollar grant from US Department of Agriculture and so that's a significant partnership and the reason they were able to do that was because they have a solution they had started to work with a couple of suppliers in the beef industry and the egg industry and both of those were companies who were trying to avoid food fraud so so for example if it's a company that has Colorado beef I'm sure you have the same challenge in Wyoming where they're trying to there's a lot of fraud so people are saying I've got Colorado beef when maybe 5% is so even though as we all know some of the challenges in botching are their first mile last mile kind of questions and they were able to make a partnership with the USDA because they are able to work with small suppliers so because they're working with small suppliers and they're starting at the USDA inspection point and going through all of that their partnership with USDA is trying to dedup see how they can develop this and pilot it with some at least 20 small food suppliers to really protect small farms and the food supply as well as the traceability so that's been an example of how that technology is now being embraced by USDA and this in this grant project I also think the accelerator incubator piece is really important because blockchain companies it takes a while to figure out how to make these things work so it's increasingly important I believe to have companies come through the programs and have as we tried to give him as much runway as possible because it takes a long time to get these things done we've been able to work with many of the companies that have come through one of them was a company that we met here last year carbo stand they were working on trying to democratize carbon offsets you can't do that without interfacing with the government agencies and so I think over time being able to introduce companies it also helps the the government agencies understand what the blockchain companies are trying to do and why and how so we've seen a lot of improvements on both sides now you have you've worked with a lot of companies in the space who have all these opportunities in front of them but a lot of challenges I think we're trying to raise money trying to use the technology in various ways where there's a lot of legal restrictions out there I would love your thoughts on what what could what what do you think could be done on a regulatory legal standpoint to help improve the adoption of this technology in government as well as for the companies that you're seeing that are trying to raise capital and create new businesses I think what color Colorado is doing is amazing because it's actually opening up the the platform in the forum for industry leaders and government players to come together and have these open discussions on what's working what's not working and I've seen it with Dora who's doing an amazing job and kind of pushing being open to these conversations but and there's so many challenges in the space obviously starting back in 2016 2017 with with raising capital and icos and that kind of crazy heyday of not having any kind of regulatory certainty but trying to navigate that anyway I guess kind of going back to the to the topic of the panel for me you know public good social good the the definition has been so skewed right by by what we're now normalizing as Society and also what's being kind of propagated by the the government and so technology and you know as evidenced by a lot of the companies that I've been working with allows for the agnostic sentence to come into play that there's no you know it kind of shifts back our moral compass into the right direction but we can't do it without the government we need the bridge between sort of the the way out there wild wild west and and enterprise really the the bid the big business is the big the big guys there so we need that bridge and and the companies that I have been working with have been doing a really good job at doing that so it consensus you know consensus has been an amazing partner when we went through the blockchain council process they were very helpful in sort of helping us with this true stakeholder process which I think to Hannah mentioned it was really important to try to bring everybody together in one room regulators industry government legislators lawyers to help kind of think through the regulatory issues and consensus has been a great partner in sort of having an understanding of various projects that are working on throughout the country and and how you work with government right so Corbin you do a lot of work on sort of the municipal bond area how can you give us some thoughts on how organization like consensus and others can help sort of government's think about how to properly stakeholder the process and bring in input so that we make sure that when we adopt these solutions and we put new laws in place this is actually gonna make a difference yeah absolutely I mean I think it always starts with education especially you know given some of the actions in this space in 2017 highlighting the benefits of having self sovereign identity some of the supply chain solutions and having kind of just more fluid value transfer allows us to be like hey we can use this technology for things other than minting tokens out of fresh air right I think at its core blockchain is all about like the internet of value and so when we talk about municipal bonds we're not just bringing down the cost of issuing and administrating those bonds we're also kind of providing a more inclusive platform for allowing anybody to kind of have access to this particular asset let me give an example if you were a Apple stock owner what if you got some kind of benefit every time you walked into the Apple Store right you get to skip the the line at the Genius Bar and you get to go right to the front right with a blockchain all that ownership and all those transactions can be queried super easily and so you can have proof of ownership directly into any mobile it like application out there so for the government space you have a municipal bond that is used to create a community center or to build a park in a new neighborhood the folks that are actually putting skin in the game to kind of finance that operation could also have benefits once that project is completed they can get updates on how the project is developing along and then they are a more engaged stakeholder within their community and then they also help finance this public good so it's kind of a virtuous cycle of kind of value transfer when you have these tokenized municipal bond offerings and with a you know with the municipal bond project that you're working on you know what it what do you think well how would you let's say a year from now or two years from now how do you how would you measure progress how would you start to see how these things are actually helping the communities reaching better a broader range of customers getting this in the hands of more customers that investors that might want it or cities adopting it how how do you think that we should think about how we measure our impact we're having on some of these projects where you have government and blockchain coming together yeah absolutely I think you know the first one is of course cost-cutting a lot of these processes today are very onerous very paper-based even the coupon payments for these bond investors go out with written checks to mailing addresses that may have changed for those individuals right with with a blockchain you have one digital wallet that you can push things out to and its cuts down the cost dramatically I would say secondly you have community engagement there's one thing the blockchain industry knows how to do well it's how to throw a hackathon it's how to throw a conference it's how to get people engaged with a new community and excited about it integrating particular api's into applique that can be very cross like cross cutting so some of the things we've discussed with municipalities is not only doing a tokenized issuance but then also running hackathon events community engagement so you can actually get the benefits of this digitally native-like value rather than it being a paper document that lives in a file cabinet somewhere you have you know a little bit about coops in Colorado is kind of a really interesting place maybe not no but it's almost kind of the Delaware of coops jason weiner took credit for that yes and you know we talk about how we can provide better value to the community you know one way and I know governor Poulos hasn't had a commission on this is how we bring more value to the employees right and co-op models allows the whole community to share in the benefit of that so maybe I thought you could talk a little bit about your experience and working with companies that are they're trying to think about these new models now you can push value in to all the stakeholders within the company employees customers users that's exactly I mean it's really the alignment of the different participants in that system it also allows it mimics a lot of the DAO principles of governance with one member one vote but the great thing about Colorado is that you have so many different levels of participation whether you are a member owner or whether you are a vendor vendor that comes in or even as an investor the really cool thing as well Eric as you know is the issuance of securities within a co-op system that are exempt from registration so I think that's really something to be on the lookout in the future because we haven't really tapped into that as much as we should be in as we can and and hopefully that we will in order to kind of bolster these types of legal frameworks now Hanna as you kind of leave the incubator world and start moving into the private back to the private industry what what do you what would you want from future government blockchain councils or other - how do you how would you like to see these for these initiatives continue to develop thoughts ideas leadership's you think additional conferences is helpful you think bringing more government bureaucrats regulators together in a room is it more education what do you think some of the answers are to continue to push this progress we've made that's a really good question because as you know from the from ours perspective on the blockchain council we wanted to start with a light hand so our first kind of roll call to action was do no harm so sometimes when you introduce legislation it can get a life of its own and have unintended consequences and and and if you especially in this space where people are maybe overreaching sometimes for consumer protection which is a it's a good thing so I think education Eric is still something that's really valuable and I would say the most value add that we would see I believe because I think our state the state agencies are doing so great I see our securities commissioner represented here today and so I just think having having had that pushed out to County levels would be incredibly valuable because having some of the counties embrace there's so many things around identity and titles and property and all of those things that the can that are kept at the county level so I think some education around how you push that out into other municipalities because doing something at the state level is only so if it's administered through a local agency and so I think really that's gonna be where we see another level of incredible value as we start to expand that education and then so how do we bring that down to the legislature who has to sort of figure out the balance between these really important ideas about trying to protect consumers but bring them new opportunities new technology be flexible government but not expose them to undue risk do you see the state's I think I think I know the answer but do you think the state should be the ones pushing these new ideas and we should continue to develop these state-based initiatives or should we focus our energy at working with our friends and the federal government to try to adopt some of these things I think with hester's SEC commissioners proposal last week 195 I think a lot of that you see in some amage to what Wyoming did and what I think it's representative in the Colorado digital token Act which I freely admit we borrowed heavily from Wyoming on and I think you know I think I see something where there's can be state initiatives they work that can be done that builds momentum towards bigger solutions kind of looking at that in levels you know the top level we're looking when we're talking about the federal government I hesitate to ever say that the federal government could get it right I'm very much believe that the state should leave the charge on it absolutely and they are and there's been a lot of pushback from the feds obviously but that I think just proves that the states are right and we're moving here but if you take it down to another level that's where I think it gets really exciting and that's the people down at this level at the the the the problem with government is that it is inherently centralized and so just even in the theoretical standpoint it is the exact opposite it is the antithesis of decentralization it's what the government is and so what's what is actually really exciting is that I think right now we're just at the cusp of when you talk about education and education as we begin to regulate and we begin to move legislation forward we move a lot of this the private industry for it in this area well we're also doing when we do that when we regulate in law is we're enshrining our values as a society in law and so right now that's not being held as much in the minds of the generations that exist but down the road I think generations will begin to think about their government differently and so that's where it comes back to that centralization decentralization idea this idea that you own your own data that you own what is what is yours this self sovereignty the decentralization all of that as we begin to move this forward begins to instill in the generations and then I think you not only is it a question of should the father lead on this or should the state's lead on this but I think a decade from now that's gonna be the question of who's really leading on this and that's us and so just continuing to educate but educating also through our laws I think gets us there through time as we enshrine our new values now that as the person who's gonna be responsible or partly responsible for bringing web 3.0 it's a Colorado government how is this gonna work this seems like a pretty complicated thing to go from where we started which is this is the big use case you brought it up this is the big use case we want self sovereign identity which does mean government gets out of the business of being this sort of holder of record and and it gets more into the business of providing services to the community or at least it sort of moves away from that how do you how do you transition a system built on where it is now to where we want to go with this self sovereign identity web 3.0 model right well that that's clearly a tough nut to crack but I don't think that I can stop it right now I I don't think it's I don't think it's that tough from a technology perspective I think that you know distributed letters technology is all about consortiums it's all about building communities that can agree on the data agree on the rules and that can happen state-by-state but it's not it's not a technical issue it's a philosophical issue it's a social issue it's an issue of community building and agreeing upon rules that transcends state borders I think certainly currently the federal government has a role to play in in interstate commerce and if they can set a standard bar that any states can decide you know they have additional requirements then things like supply chains can be built that can track products goods and even services across state borders that meet those federal requirements but that also can allow states to impose any additional regulations and that's sort of sort of where you get the value in in it in blockchain it's going across borders and getting that buy-in from from various different organizations and and municipalities is super critical Hanna talked about pushing it out to the county levels right they've got certain things that that blockchain would be a great technology to solve for as well and so I think it goes both ways I think that the state level is essentially the tip of the spear right now and that you know it's it's maybe it's maybe an exploding arrow when it when it sinks and it we need to push the concepts to the federal level but also down to the county level and when we try to push these things out to the county level you know what we often have found and I know I think I saw some folks around here on the council that kind of worked on this project is the counties don't have much money doesn't have a lot of resources to tackle something like this and we we were talking earlier about you know DHS is doing amazing R&D in this space right and there have an R&D project that may be enough to like stand up a whole solution for you like how do we get to a point where we can fund these these initiatives at a local at a State at our local level how do we get Rd done at a federal level that's shared at a state level maybe you have some ideas on on sort of what can be done is it you know is it public-private partnerships is it bringing some enterprises to the table that can help with these solutions so it's not just government-funded I think it's certainly public private enterprises I think that the fact that there's not much money but there's certainly a lot that's maybe not being optimized and the way that it's spent REE reformulating the way that the budgets are work and it worked at the county level and putting maybe more towards innovative solutions that can help reduce costs in the long run I mean right now the amount of paper physical paper that's pushed is phenomenal I mean you know I think that a lot of these blockchain initiatives could be funded just in the postage that's being spent at the county level legitimately and I feel like that the opportunities are there it's a matter of transforming state information technology into a more agile modern idea of what innovation and research and development looks like a lot of states aren't set up for that right now they're trying to maintain what they've got without solving for future proofing the problems to a degree and I think that's where we need to go Eric I was going to add on to that one other thing that happens at the federal level that doesn't happen at the state and local level is the SBI ours like the Small Business Innovation research grants and ways that the federal government that the Department of Defense especially has said we can't innovate fast enough so we're gonna do these challenges so that the the private sector early-stage companies can come minutes and show us what they're doing because we're pretty sure they're doing more than we can and they're innovating faster and what that does is avoids a ton of expense and procurement processes and if the state and local and county level would open up as small a smidge of their budget to say we don't know what we don't know but we need to allocate some of our budget to figure this out and and do it in this form of a challenge grant that's that is how the Department of Defense is innovating right now and the counties this is the cities all of those groups I think could pay for some of these innovations just by overcoming some of their challenges in procurement yeah we've had a lot of discussions today about maybe the neck regulatory front is just embrace change and how procurement works which is gonna be a pretty esoteric topic but can really make a difference in terms of the companies out here and you know Colorado's already make an amazing effort by working with the hackathon here to sort of work on these new projects and there's other ways that we can think about how we can bring innovation in Corbin I know as you try to reach out to more municipalities to try to think about innovation right how do you get them to think about it this in a new way well we've always we've always purchased this product this way how do you convince them to move to a new solution do you have to bring in a trusted vendor partner that can sort of be that like make them look feeling good and then you kind of have these kind of scrappy blockchain companies behind you to make it work or what do you think the solution is to try to push these innovations along into the government yeah that's a good question I think I think when you're starting out you kind of have to pick your jurisdictions carefully right we have representatives from Wyoming and Colorado on this stage because they've taken the leap first and they've set it basically kind of cleared the path a little bit for others to follow so especially in the municipal space you know we're looking for the folks that are reaching out that are saying like how can I bring jobs to my jurisdiction how can I explore more innovative ways of financing public projects and like as soon as we have a couple of these examples out in the wild and we have the ROI that is demonstratable whether that's cut cost whether that's more buy-in whether that's more community participants and these types of projects I think the numbers are just gonna speak for themselves and you're gonna have municipalities that are gonna be scrambling along to catch up to some of these innovative leaders that are gonna be the first ones to pioneer the space so yeah if we can ways our wave our magic wand and sort of imagine what we want this to become and if we have this goal of self sovereign identity in the future sort of what would be the the change that you think that we could make if you had if you heard the dictator you could control everything what would you get what would be the key thing to get this adoption across the finish line the not easy what questions at this point you have to think about that a little bit more but I mean just making it the user experience really easy right and and palpable just so that we don't just like you know the Internet is a public good right and then the same thing for watching I hope for blockchain to be what the internet is for us now anybody else on the panel that has any thoughts on the one thing that we could change if you were in charge that you think would help push this innovation watching adoption yeah I mean you have you have joke that it's the million dollar question but you know money does play a huge factor in that I was concept of you know you weighed in well you'd get these I but that's really what we want right at the county level but how do you do it without just you know pushing the money down in Wyoming one of the real just real-world you know red meat examples of what could really change things in Wyoming is simply just digital records land records it's huge in Wyoming we're a mineral state we're based on coal oil and natural gas a lot of that's changing in Wyoming but that was our history for a hundred years then throw in our our third largest industries AG and so again we're talking about why and and I'm a lawyer so I deal in that in that sphere a lot and and we just have generations and generations of of complicated deeds and and mistakes and millions and millions of dollars that are spent figuring those out and now today we have this technology that we could just simply place this data on a level on a ledger on a blockchain and have the authenticity that we need and the reliability that we need going forward for the next hundred years in Wyoming all of our you know records are kept at the county level so this is where we run into this issue where we try to spearhead this at the state level we create a pilot program we brought in a public-private partnership but it's you know it's not moving and it's not moving without money and so you know if I guess if I had the money I think that would you know that's what I would do for the day I mean education is key you can't just change people's hearts and minds but if you had the money to move things you could move things at the local level I think like in Wyoming a lot quicker so that isn't a money problem is it a creativity problem what what is it is it a federal regulation problem what are some of the things that are that you think that would hold us back from this vision of where we want to go so right now I think that it primarily boils down to a maturity problem we've got Bitcoin is 11 years old a theorem is 6 years old that's as long as smart contracts on blockchains have been operating that's not a long time to prove out a technology we need proof of concepts we need implementation we need security testing pen testing at the state level for our data integrity requirements and our security requirements we need to be able to perform solid security and pen testing against any technologies that we introduce for large-scale use of publicly stewarded data and that needs to be you know bulletproof so I think maturity is a big issue the more the more experimentation happens with it and the more were able to put used cases in two proof-of-concept practices the more were able to convince the businesses that this is worthwhile this is going to ease the ease of the relationship between the data the agencies and the end-users who own the data and who need to access and use it so I think it it really does sort of boil down to that market penetration it needs it needs to be something that is practically invisible but also very much trusted and that that comes with implementations right in you know it's it's sort of a chicken or the egg problem right because you talk about maturity but how many opportunities are these companies going to get right so it ends up becoming this I think important sort of process between well-established companies that have sort of been there done that that can provide that that solution to the government or a large vendor but then bringing these other companies along so it kind of gives you a sense that it is a lot of think about collaboration and working together so yeah we haven't talked about sandboxing yet but I think that the concept is is is very much important and and salient to any conversation around both blockchain as a as a potential technology for use in state government as well as for FinTech and regulations around it some other states have have introduced sandboxes and and you know I don't know how well or how poorly it's been received but I think that it does give opportunities on both the technology and on the flexibility in the regulatory environment for companies to really prove out their model yeah I would agree I mean if folks may have heard of a sandbox before the regulatory front there's a couple states that have gone for it and tried to adopt these basically creating sort of a safe harbor from companies that are sort of in a beta stage trying out new projects they might need a banking license they might need a money transmitter license but we're gonna keep this kind of over oversight control and sort of handle it that way but it doesn't solve sort of the maturity problem and the security problem and whether the solutions actually going to work right so I do think that they're sort of reimagining how we innovate and how we bring this to the forefront pushing it down through the States through the counties working with private enterprises that try to build these working with existing partners might be a solution to help continue to innovate within government so they gave me the one minute sign so would you a quick lightning round maybe you can run down tell me the the project that your heard about here or elsewhere and the crypto community that you're excited about and then we'll finish up there so I would say we were talking about this before the panel I think central bank digital currencies is going to be a fundamental shift of how the world's finance and payment rails work over the next 10 years I think it's probably gonna start in authoritarian States and then percolate kind of elsewhere but I think that shift a digitally native value transfer is gonna be massive around the world have to put in a huge plug for us they're creating a public good infrastructure for employment basically bringing together all of the gig workers and the worker economy and giving them the economies of scale in terms of collective bargain bargain II and and just bringing power to those individuals to come together as as groups and retain their their sovereignty minds to be seen because every year now I I get really excited about some of the projects that come through this event so I hope whoever is out there hacking is also thinking about ways that they can monetize this and create a company because we've seen it happen every year so I really would love to see especially some of those that are working on the advanced Colorado platform on some of those solutions be able to solve some of these state problems because then I think we can build some businesses around that I not be the most exciting project for those of you under 65 in the room but I'm from Wyoming you have to remember the median age is practically 65 in Wyoming but he wills he wills on the blockchain so doing away with almost a thousand years worth of how we think about our after-death world of wills and solving the authenticity and reliability problem by simply having both II will and logging it on the blockchain so I'm thinking back to the question about how is how is this all funded how is this all paid for and I think that by adding one additional parameter to whether or not you feel like watching is applicable to your use case have a have a yes/no checkbox for is fraud happening there right so anything that that has fraud occurring in it putting it putting it that workflow on the blockchain and reducing that level of fraud essentially pays for itself awesome thank you so much for having us it's been a pleasure check us out later have a good one [Applause] [Music] you