Restoring Trust in The Crypto Industry | European Blockchain Convention

foreign hello everyone so as you can see we have not free not four but five amazing security and legal experts on stage you know thank you and I will be your guide today to take the most knowledge of them so just a quick word about myself so I was a blockchain consultant before moving to parity as a core developer now I'm working as a co-developer for developing those smart contract language of polka.com Inc so of course we build in the safer ways and we are always auditing that why it makes sense for us to talk about Security today especially in the web free space and yes as you can understand I'm more used to talk about uh with computers and with humans but let's let's talk with these five amazing experts on stage so I know Gabby you wear a submarine from a officer so please introduce yourself and then move on please hello everyone I'm Gabi I'm the VP of security in California so we are a company focus on web3 hacking but not only web3 but also all the web 2 around because we realize webto is still affecting web3 space and as you know and she said I'm a former Navy officer in in Spain in submarines so I just try to you know to provide my experience in my life to the to the wet trade space I think is one of the best things of the crypto space many people from many different space many different you know places can you give you a word about yourself please yeah sure uh good morning everyone I'm Carlos I'm from Barcelona so welcome to our city I work for multico Technologies as an SME multigo is a company providing a link analysis tool that is enabling investigators around the world during the last 14 years to try to find the bad guys out there who are really impacting different Industries also now the web3 with all these scams are also doing money laundering or other kind of fraud schemes I've been 20 years in information security working mainly in digital forensics and insane response so hopefully I'm here with my the rest of my colleagues here in the panel to provide you um or trying to provide you some insights about about this okay thank you yes your Awards also please everyone morning my name is yes I'm one of the co-founders of quicktrust uh what we're doing is uh identifying adding identity to signatures digital signatures and whitelisting wallets and the transactions that happen we've also applied for a patent for adding your identity to nfts which basically means that higher value assets can be uh you know allocated to users and as they move around people will know the who owns the assets um and you know bringing more transparency because we know that you know web 3D centralization is great until you lose your nft and then everyone wants a number to dial and call someone and asking for help so uh one of the things that we're doing is bringing more transparency to the ecosystem [Music] hello everyone my name is Thanos I am the co-founder and CEO of cyberscope cyberscope is a cyber security company were operating in blockchain and we have Solutions in smart contract Audits kyc and AML analytics we got shortlisted for best startup of the year in the past cyber security Awards yes Michael we didn't have the chance to grab a drink yesterday but you uh you can present yourself absolutely thank you thank you fast and welcome its officer for anshine.ai I spent 10 years with the U.S Departments of Justice and of the treasury with Justice I was an asset forfeiture and money laundering section of the Criminal Division down in Washington DC and I spent about another half a decade with ofac office of foreign assets control doing sanctions matters and then also with financial crimes enforcement network fincen doing Bank secrecy act for the treasury Department now I'm with Ann Shane Ai and we provide security and risk management for the web 3 space everything from blockchain analytics to nft development and security smart contract auditing and of course training and education for private and public sector so happy to be here okay thank you all so we have seen just just of course there was a FTX collapse and as it was already talked just before us so can you just explain very quickly uh what solution your company brings to make this space more resilient cool thank you um I think most most of us working in the who work directly around ugly in the crypto industry we need to make sure our business are clean because we have many people who work with us could be business partners could be customers and multigo is providing a solution to doing trust and safety in a way to verify your customers uh what the the the business they they are doing to make sure you are as most compliant as possible of course and this means doing proactive investigations and also when something happens like we have some cases in the past we are able to make sure to uncover the dots to connect them to and to know from them as much as possible so Montego is providing connecting to osin data sources and also to intelligence providers to see as much as possible so that your analysts can provide this to the uh to take decisions on how to proceed so that would be it so speaking about analysis Michael can you give your word also yeah so uh and chain uh provides traceability transparency uh security and just more more credibility uh to the web 3 as well as education of course so but we'll need it after 2022. okay do you want those who had the worlds yes here uh yeah I mean FTX collapse was was not the biggest one um so I know we're talking about it uh just now but before then the lunar crashed and then three arrows and everything else uh it's just like it's an example that we'd like to quote um but the the idea Still Remains that we need to be more transparent within the industry uh wallets are fine well it's a good but they need to be attached to some some sort of identity um and it needs to be decentralized identity and we we paired uh you know some of the speakers speak about the FTX collapse and how best to resolve that issue um so so yeah that's all I have to add on that I would like to hear you so about this yeah so for example if you take a look at the right list you can see like six of top 12 hacks are not related to crypto I mean it's like uh attacking the website uh how to handle the keys generating the keys so it's the approach of our companies like protecting web3 part which is smart contracts but also the other parts for example Badger Dao it's it's 120 million dollars and they just attack the website so it's like if you protect the website if you protect the mobile apps cloud and so you could protect all the projects not only a smart contract audits so this is I think when you realize web3 is not web3 is web 2.

5 just now so when you realize that I know you can you can defend your project and you can you know you can make your project more resilient and maybe your last word from you from Thanos about resilience and your company please the transparency is very important nowadays and what we do is apart from traditional b2p audit services and kyc services we also have tools for open for customers so it's platform with tools that you can interact with a smart contract have checked the findings yourself it's a preliminary audit report you can also scan wallets so you get to see how much AML suspicious wallet can be a resilient systems are very important because it's exactly like why you would want your Banks to have the best level of security measures when they're holding their money this is why we're working hard to make sure web3 is also resilient okay thank you so [Music] be having a very secure and safe system is always the best but we are more today with our business partner if we have Founders we have CEO and of course CTO but um can you explain us how is it how by building a technical safe projects can help to have also economic outcomes yeah absolutely so securing Technical Systems means there would be less contract exploits there's the past here the web of a 2 billion funds reported stolen exploited from Smart contracts so the best thing we can do is first of all set to secure with the smart contracts and then the second defense is education so only by combining those two then we can talk about mainstream adoption and everything systems so do you want to add the words yes yeah I mean for for us it's more uh you know we're all Builders over here we want to build organizations and companies we're all here trying to understand how we can leverage blockchain whether it's Enterprise solution or whether it's more uh you know open system opening ecosystem for us it's more reputational cost and you know we need to do the right things and and you know we have great panel over here and all you know these guys work on in security and making transaction more secure and we had on from previous panel that self-regulation you know every industry have a regulated self-regulation mechanism and I think that that is coming and that is coming quite quickly now because of what's happened in the last six eight months in the crypto space so I I think and and whilst we are here discussing the technology how we can leverage it it's down to us to build the reputation do the right things and it's and have a more longer term Vision rather than you know what's going to happen in six months time oh the token is going to be six months so let's put something out there and then you know we'll see what happens and then if if things go pear-shaped you know have an oh moment and move on so I think majority of the people I I've met yet last night in in you know here and in London in crypto space they're more mature they're thinking more you know three-year plan five year plan rather than you know a quick short you know flavor of the month um and I'm speaking to a lot of security companies now you know providing Cloud security wallet security identity transactions and and traceability on that uh so I think it's coming and I think that's what we need to understand and think about it's good to be Builders but we also need to take a long-term vision and learn from the mistakes and and you learn from what what's gone wrong and how we can leverage that and and improve on it moving forward and that's the only way to bring trust into the ecosystem I think these guys over here doing some great you know great work in in in their in their respective fields Last Words colors yeah definitely um I think nowadays uh all the all the organizations uh need to do a proper processes around know your customer and know your transactions uh to make sure everything is going in the right way because I have seen many cases in the past not only in crypto when I was doing other investigations in that's in traditional banking that even you have at the compliance teams and you have their the regulation to push them to do it in the proper way it's a good mix of Technologies process and the people behind that are taking care of of this so I think definitely agree with my my colleagues that we're still far in many cases for to be in many organizations that are not addressing the risk properly and they think they're just complain with some standards out there they are everything is going well and I think we we need to really be more pragmatic be close to not too much paper and be close to the to where's the data understanding how it's been accessed and this kind of things so So speaking about being pragmatic at parity we have this common phrase it is we want uh less choice but more proof and more proof so still in this business way can you tell me how you can build with your partnership these truths and this trust so please Gabby Yeah so basically it's like a we we try to we can say that educate our clients because in that point security I mean for crypto natives is super hard to understand security it's something essential because at the end it's like when you are at home it's like you know I'm no one you know who wants to attack me it's like who wants to steal my money but it's like you know two different kinds of company it's like the company you know which was hack and the company which is going to be hack so at the end it's like you have to build your company based on security and at the end you'll as a company you don't have to think like uh you know is like a security is useless or something like that security is useless until you are hacked so even in this market I think the amounts maybe is a bit you know is not very focused because we say Okay matter dot IO just for million is nothing yeah but because the most the the the the worst hack it was like 600 million or something but 4 million for this company is is it's yeah it's a concern so other than that it's like you want to be decentralized but ninety percent of the companies are in AWS so it's like if you want to be 100 decentralized you if you have any single point of failure being said you are not decentralized being said you need security because we we have some examples but I don't want to talk a bit more than my time but for example we hack a client you know control under control by the cloud and using the GitHub repository and because you know everything is important you know security uh this Access Control policies and so on so at the end you are able if you are an attacker from the GitHub repository we modify the repository and then we were able to steal the funds so you know I mean security is Paramount yeah Michael can I have some words also about trust and Truth you know to build this trail with your partnership in business yeah so uh you know this space was developed to be trustless but I think what we're seeing largely now is that in order for greater adoption there has to be some level of trust from the customer especially people that aren't native to our world to to this blockchain world we live in um you know it's very different to the average person walking on the street so uh being able to I think uh and you know I think regulation and compliance sometimes they're a dirty word in web 3 especially among the D5 folk and I understand because I'm a little bit libertarian myself unless government surveillance the better but I think that if you are transparent with the customer uh and and of course your counterparties and why you have certain compliance programs in place why you're doing certain things that seemed like they stifle Innovation or seem like they're unduly burdensome on the industry it's helpful to have people understand that if if we don't induce if we don't take certain measures if we don't do certain things like traditional Finance in a way that the adoption it'll just be stamped out before it even gets started so I think that there is a time and a place to have that fight and I think it's once greater adoption actually takes place so my guidance to the industry is uh do what we have to do now to to you know get in there and have this uh alternative system of Finance adopted uh well beyond what it is now and then once we've grown large enough then we can take that fight where we need to take it if we need to take it at all okay thank you um also speaking about trust is most of the time I think in web free believing in your own trust and so it means also managing most of the time you own key and your own wallets but when you are just new in the ecosystem it can be quite complicated so I will for some it is something that really matters for me how do you think we can find these thresholds between having a good user experience for new especially for new users and so security so yes here yeah I mean I'm going to give you a little bit a bit of a story really quickly so I I was I was traveling I was traveling and I had a monzo I use monzon from the UK so if you guys don't know what monzo is it's a it's a new bank and um I handed my card I actually offered my card up to the shopkeeper and he he basically tabbed it and he took more money out of it than than he should have and I came to London and then I I went to Monza and said you know they they robbed me basically and they said well sorry you give the card They tapped you're within the limit we can't do sorry we can't do anything about it and I got mad at the bank right the point I'm trying to make is that can I be trusted with my own keys I mean I I I mean you know the keys on my mobile phone my mobile phone is not secure if it's on my browser the browser is not secure you know these guys if they know my details they probably can hack into my system and get who who am I actually mad at you know so we need I think I think we you know we said it's not web3 where it's web 3 when we want it to be web 3 and we want to say keep the government out of the equation and everything else but as soon as something goes wrong we need someone to be mad at right so at the moment we're at web 2.5 at best right and what we're currently doing is building a bridge from web 2 to web 3. so and I think that's that's what it is so you know all these all these great things about you know holding your keys and keeping them secure and everything else is all fair and well but if if today if if money goes missing from your bank or someone use your credit card uh you know scam your credit card you you want to speak to someone because you want that insurance right and currently that's we're not there yet so you know what are we trying to achieve over here you know what what is the what is the functionality Can Can Can my mum I always use this as an example can my mom use uh you know crypto to draw no she can't because I've been trying to explain to her what I do and she still thinks that you know I do something as as a part-time thing and it may not it's a hobby So and I've been running this bloody thing for three years so you know are we are we there yet no we are we need to bring build tools education is good and I and I speak to a lot of people till about blockchain and security and everything else until cows come home but you know it's a very small number right the thing is that we need to make it more secure we need to have the sustained processes in place that we currently have with our banks to make it more successful to make it more secure and that will come but you know for us to sit here and say uh you know keep your whole keep all of your own keys on your phone or you know that just that just I don't think we're there yet I don't think as you know been in blockchain space in 2016 2017 I feel scared you know I've got two or three ledgers and I keep somewhere like under my mattress and some in my bloody shoe and some somewhere else and I don't know where the keys are and if someone something was to go wrong you know I don't know what I would do about it but you know but would I do that same thing with my money in my bank would I take you know all the money out of my account and put it around my flat no I wouldn't you know so there is a massive change that needs to happen there's a gulf between what crypto is right now and how we are used to working with the with our bank and managing our money so you know maybe a cynical view but you know we but that just States that shows that we are thinking about it as an organization yes [Music] also because you have your all your cyber experience kind of also your opinion about this yeah I totally agree with Yasir it's very important to know and educate people around security and it really hard actually because it's not easy converting and you haven't explaining that he has to be the only way to educate is to be to understand what blockchain is how to manage your wallets how to manage the keys this is a very sensitive process and there are solutions for that and we've seen about scams happening and people trying to exploit when this happens I think it's very important to understand that on this on the space we are we have this responsibility of bringing this to the customers closer and providing Solutions being there for them and making these products educating I see you want to say also yeah I was yeah laughing thinking about lots lots of stories app but I think let's forget now about web3 but I think we still have a problem with identity and Authentication I I still I mean talking about your partners your family relatives that come to you I can't trust this website when I do they have to buy something now after Kobe most of the people they now buy online uh and and they they still is difficult to uh see if something a website you can you can or a service online you can trust it because even the bad guys they do really good brand impersonation they put like nice logos nice things so at the end it's all about social engineering uh when we talk about technology at the end um let's see in the future maybe it will be the the machines hacking us and uh on the other side but nowadays there are we are human people the bad guys the good guys uh using the technology and I think the main problem is social engineering so people their approached with fishing attacks and and and you click on on something um even now with I mean probably people talk about passwords that is one of the big problems but now with this second Factor authentication the bad guys are trying to approach also trying to bypass that so we we had the case last year with the Uber breed uh that the bad guys were mainly approaching an IT guy through WhatsApp they are sending uh for trying to force him to accept uh the two-factor authentication so I think technology is not this all the only solution and in web 2 web 3 it's a education and trained probably I don't know how but I think we in in all the industries we need to provide something to really help on uh on on supporting the identification Mutual identification of who's connecting and that you are connecting to a trustable uh partner so that will be my appointment this is a problem that has been sold for web 2 so it's pretty uh if you think about it it's a work in progress for the internet in general it's not the web free thing facing our taxes are there have always been there and that the indication is we always come back to web 2. I think we all agree on this and most yeah so this is now the problem we realize this is a popular opinion but it's not technology the problem is humans you know because because it's like at the end it's the weakest part of the chain and it's like uh humans it's like we have to to decentralize our minds it's not we are talking about the centralization and Technology web3 but we have to decentralize our minds because we still say like you know they are the banks We Trust Banks so we put the money there because you know we trust them but why you know because if you go to the origins to the chatoshi paper and so you say a system based on trust is trustless per se I mean you have to apply like a cryptography honesty of the notes security and so but at the end you know it's curious because we launched some fishing campaigns to our clients in terms of you know the the CEOs and ctOS they want to test their own people in terms of you know people are working with many confidential things and so and it's curious because you launched a fishing campaign you know about LastPass or something maybe five percent of people and we say we need to think about a bit more so we launched a fishing campaign with a fake emails about their stock options so at the end it was like 90 success because at the end even if you are concerned with security and so we are talking about your money your options also at the end the humans are the weakest part of the of the chain unfortunately okay I think we related to web 2 uh technically speaking but let's move to a more touchy subject let's move you know to regulation because every time I think there is a new attack a new scam they are just all institutional actors saying okay we need to uh had a regulation on this sector so just a simple question uh do you think regulation will really help to be to have a more safer space so please Michael yeah so the uh every time I think I have a handle on on the regulatory approach it's taken worldwide and domestically in the U.S some new exploit comes out some new problem occurs and suddenly there's just knee-jerk reactions uh all over uh right after FTX in the United States uh out of Congress they introduced the digital assets anti-money laundering act which was one of the most aggressive attacks on unhosted wallets and self-custody that I've ever seen and that's extremely problematic and I think that around the world they do a little better with not being so overly Broad and over overreaching with regulation but uh there's still a fundamental misunderstanding of how this technology Works uh who are the parties that are involved how they function with the system and so if you don't understand those key metrics those key things how can you appropriately scope your regulation right and it's a very lazy approach that's being taken it's problem blanket solution ban it and that's not what's going to help this system uh and as we've seen especially as of late with the SEC and the Federal Reserve uh you know the FED locks out custodia Bank the SEC is attacking lending programs staking programs it looks like stable coins are next up all of this is now saying that the government's finally got to the point where they realize blockchain has come too far to stop it but they're going to shoulder themselves in and really you know probably we're looking at the the rise of multiple cbdcs around the world and we don't want that I think as a system because of course that's absolute surveillance and control over a financial system as I walk around now with Fiat in my wallet those serial numbers are now recorded by the government with my name so if I spend them they're spent without uh you know with anonymity uh if they have the cbdc that's that's it guys uh so there has to be that balance of uh you know the industry uh working with Congress and working with parliaments around the world to educate them properly on the benefits of blockchain as well as not to be overbroad and stifle Innovation because this is something very beautiful that could go a long way towards advancing the future of finance and alternative system of Finance uh real-time payments cross-border payments just making everything better uh and so you know to keep such an Antiquated system in place with the central banks is you know quite frankly I think tragic I think I'll see you want also to give your opinion on the subject I mean I have an opinion about everything I have an opinion on everything so uh so yeah good for us whilst I agree with Michael I want to give an opposing view so CBD seemed not a massive fan of it but at the end of the day um you know your bank accounts are all connected um you know when I travel um you know the logs are all connected so people know where I am what I'm spending on uh you know so cbdc is just another step for or on you know bigger control not a massive fan of it but you know I can see some of the benefits of it um the the other thing is that uh regulation from a regulatory point of view you know self-regulation again is is key uh because uh you know the SEC don't understand what blockchain is or what the technology is what the applications are they just you know gung ho at the moment and and they're just like okay staking bad bad uh you know FTX bad ban so that you know it's like a it's like an ape going around sorry to swear and you know just just hammering everyone with it that's that's not going to work uh luckily for UK uh they came up with a with a regulation uh this week early this week and it looks quite favorable and it is very sensible to be honest with you so so you know if the US is is going around doing what they're doing um you know there are other jurisdictions you know uh and and rather than you know SEC going around Banning everything I think a better approach would be to set up some sort of council to say right you are the industry leaders how can we make it more secure for people you know and and and you know take some feedback but at the moment they're not just there yet and I I don't know I don't think they know what they're doing it's uh it's actually striking that you uh that you mentioned uh you know more than the SEC having like a conglomerate if you were a working task force because uh at the very beginning of the regulatory discussions back back in 2021 uh I had said I think that much like after 9 11 when the intelligence community in the United States was found to be faulty in siled and nobody was sharing information with one another the FBI the NSA the CIA they were all working uh in Opera uh opposite directions and So eventually we now have the office of the Director of National Intelligence that centralizes all of that so I think you know the SEC the cftc the IRS all these different components fincen ofac the ones that should have a stake in this should all be on a task force so that they understand what their jurisdiction is what their legislative limitations are because they all operate under different statutes so it's it's precisely correct that it should be a decentralized approach to that regulation uh so absolutely and the other striking thing is uh you know the saying the SEC doesn't really know anything about blockchain to me is amusing because uh and it's not that you're not wrong but the the chief there Gary Gensler of course taught at MIT right uh so who who better to know how to regulate blockchain fundamentally than a professor from MIT in blockchain uh so so it's really striking to me that the the SEC takes such an overly broad approach I think that it's almost it's a fear mechanism that causes them to throw a blanket over it and then maybe incrementally they'll pull it back as there's more more pushback at least that's my hope because otherwise I don't understand it brother Carlos you will also want to have a point about how we can walk with institution and governments of a regulation well um I'm not an expert in that in that field but I will say that in the last year or the last let's say two three years we have seen an increase in many of those uh government agencies in trying to understand little bits what's going on and probably uh trying to to make up their mind in this deciding how to regulate something uh that is growing too fast because one of the main things that happens in many with many of the risks we have to address in with cyber is that technology goes faster than regulation and the legal issues so it's quite difficult sometimes that's uh it takes both education and regulations are things that take years and years to increase the maturity level of different let's say generations of people we are talking about uh not only the the industry but also talking about the society the governments young people so they they they they need to to to understand and at the end regulations are giving a framework for all of us to understand things but sometimes those regulations at the beginning they are not clear there are gray lines and but at least give us something to work with and I think especially last year with this and likely conflict with Russia with Ukraine many people were concerned because at the end they didn't want that the money goes to uh to the bad hands and think regulation and sanctions are trying to help the the our businesses to to push more priority into this that really okay I can do it later because my business is first so and I and and one of them command subject around all these different integration and issue is how can we increase the indication education or can we make this education go faster in the society so Gabby can you just uh tell me what efforts does your company do for Education just maybe not just for web free but just in Security in general yeah so we follow with our clients many programs about Security in general and Security in web 3 for sure but it's true you know we we are hackers in our company good hackers you know not the other ones the other one are criminals yeah white hackers so sometimes we we educate our clients by example you know because they they don't realize oh you know I will never re-attack or something okay let me let me do it come back in two months yeah does it but you know the idea is like uh being able to transmit the idea like uh you know security is important and also A New Concept is racing now is this defy security awareness I mean companies should be aware about what is happening around them in terms of new hacks and new things but also you know the basics of Securities like uh you know I I talked to one of my my clients as I like you know how many CL how many employees do you have as a 10 employees and they work with uh you know with a company laptop say no oh you know and you have any kind of protection no and did you use VPN or something no I said okay so we have to talk because it's like a security from the very beginning it's like security Basics and so yeah I said that before because it's like uh for crypto natives is like super hard to understand like a security Basics but is for that our approach is not only okay I'm going to do this smart contract Audits and that's all no it's like I'm your security advisor and I can do whatever you need if you have any doubt related to Security even if you don't know how to set up a second Factor authentication also so one of the the example we learned against against a client it was like uh okay yeah I'm super sure nobody is going to click on that or something okay we started to inject fake meetings in the Google Calendar so it's a super funny attack because it's like you know I usually have many 15 meetings per day sometimes it's like a oh you know another meeting and you know the guys click on the meeting and redirect to a Google authentication fake obviously they put the credentials and I decide maybe 80 credentials of the company in Google even the city Oakland so I mean this is a a good way as well to educate you know it's like educate by example we can say that I mean just just on that just maybe just tunnels I see because yeah you want to talk about education because I think you are doing a lot of effort also you have similar clients and uh as copy can guarantee uh education they don't understand security until it's too late for them it's mostly a business uh they don't see the investment on their project by adding security so that's why we're trying to educate users users if users are educated they will come in the project and they will ask for the security or that they will push for shock to shock to certificate is also good for web 2 and make sure about credentials tpr and Cloud privacy everything is kept so we find more value there and that's why we have webinars we have content blog posts we will have gave me five features to make sure that users can come in in the interact and be educated a lot more than they would be yes yeah I come back to you about education yeah I was just going to make a point I have a friend who's really clever and he's head of cloud for a for an insurance firm right they they hired a security firm he clicked that Bloody link and he got flagged and he's head of Cloud Security in The Firm right so it's it's it's not to say that you know it can happen to anyone right the security side of things and this is web 2 we're talking about and we've been living webto space for a long while right and just on the education front you know I mean I I do my bit I've got a colleague over here sat in the audience I can see her uh you know I'm always invited to speak to students you know how to leverage nfts you know that side of things so you know you do your bit whatever you can but you know it's it's a massive piece it's a massive piece and It's never enough another example is the budget attack because it was like you know when you sign a transaction even if you use Hardware wallet is like how many clicks you know how many times I have to tap this button like accept accept and I don't realize how many times I have the you know that but budget now they they attacker injected like a kind of payload and when you go to sign the transaction you you didn't realize accidentally you tap once more than expected and every single transaction you you just sign and everything else as transaction went to the attacker account just from the legal give us some insight about education Michael yeah yeah definitely um so from the legal side I think things are largely developing in this space uh you know we're seeing I mean you can't even look at like FTX and things like that because those are so uh you know they're so um entrenched in traditional fraud uh just happen to be uh you know at a crypto-centric or a web 3 company um really it's just a matter of getting more of this education out there about this just the system the technology and the participants and Shane actually has me uh in charge of our training program so besides uh being volunteered as tribute at these uh at these conventions to speak to you all um about touchy subjects like regulation and compliance and things like that all kinds of fun stuff um we we have a training program online that's self-paced uh sandshane University um I think it's university.

andshane.ai but we just introduced a smart contracts module yesterday because we have a lot of in the public sector that don't understand smart contracts and they're you know they're thinking of putting out regulation by enforcement and we're you know we're in touch with a lot of these Regulators we're in touch with a lot of these investigative agencies and so uh you know besides selling the product uh we largely try to educate on on both the need for the product but of course uh you know the the need to not just throw these blanket regulations and blanket adverse regulatory actions enforcement actions out there uh so it's uh you know and also with uh with private sector with compliance teams compliance officers legal officers it's a whole new ball game for people especially in the law learning about a space in which the law is largely developing there's not a lot of precedent uh for blockchain cases and for web 3 cases especially in terms of Ip with nfts and I mean it's this is largely what we call in the law you know cases of first instance where you're literally seeing the law being built in real time so for me it's an exciting time because I don't think I've ever been a part of something that's so new and exciting that it's literally uh developing the law as we go and developing these regulations as we go so it's just fascinating for me and callous how is education at multigroup um I think at the end we are trying to provide a lot of resources for uh the different kind of roles that you have in the in a company uh like I mean from when like blog posts webinars different kind of things but I wanted to provide one Insight just to add something because to complement what they already said is that one of my biggest learnings when uh dealing with cyber in the last probably 10 years is that training doesn't always works in the way of like you uh I mean like just a lecture to people uh one of the biggest things that changed many organizations when I was like trying to um uh help them to to improve their capabilities was several exercises so when you think about the throne landscape and you put them in situations that could happen to them uh then they have to react and understand how to approach the problem and that's a different thing because they are learning but with something that is applied to them something that could happen probably is going to happen in a few weeks or maybe already happen to them like ransomware attacks you know many many situations not only web 3 but I think uh I think learn by doing and like Hands-On approach helps a lot organizations like to understand because when something happens not all the things not all the people have a good understanding even of their internal tools or their or how things works and I think it's good to put them in that situation kissing to everyone well I will say that less trust more truth and more education for everyone not just you know humans but we are all concerned by securitish and I think you can see that the whole like uh you know to talk about their experience their expertise so please and come to talk to us thank you thank you very much guys thank you