'Panel: Evolution of Ethereum Consensus' - Danny Ryan, Trent van Epps, and Aftab Hossain

doing a panel on just the evolution of the theorem consensus they'll be uh trent is going to be moderating this chat and uh going over how the ethereum ecosystem has evolved uh from from the beginning and sort of where the discussion is headed uh and uh without further ado i'd like to welcome my trent danny and off top everybody [Music] all right so i'll just start off with a quick intro thank you everybody who's uh behind the scenes really quick just a shout out to the youth global team uh maybe some of you know i was formerly on this team so it's it's an honor to be on the other side of this uh and i appreciate uh the people that are doing the hard work behind the scenes so shout out uh yeah and then i'll do a quick intro for danny um he's the e2 coordinator for uh everything proof of stake um he works with a lot of the client teams and dc investor aftab is uh kind of a well-known community member heavily involved in nft he's been around the space for quite a while um if you guys want to add anything for free if not yeah we can just jump right into it so let's talk about the evolution of ethereum consensus and what does that actually mean um i'm i i guess i'll start with an anecdote so i'm working on a book with uh all of the eth2 researchers now and um soliciting submissions from all of these different researchers and we're actually pretty close to releasing it and one of the things i asked for is um what is what was your start date with e2 researcher when did you start building on it and everybody you know gave pretty reasonable answers 2018 i got interested at this point doing this and then vitalik's response was like january 2014 or something something crazy so it really underscores the reality that this has been this is and continues to be a long-term project right uh the ethereum virtual machine and the ethereum community are not static objects they're always uh under this push and pull between different needs different expectations from the people that are building it the people that are part of the community and i think it's i mean it goes without saying that this is incredibly important uh the community and the things that the community produces wouldn't be the way that they are wouldn't experience the same success without that um you know iterative process uh i don't think it's gonna take another six years from now or seven years to you know see see out the full vision but um danny why don't you start with saying a little bit about like why do we keep working on these things even though they can take years they change all the time what would you say is the why behind ethereum generally and eth2 uh from your perspective right and first i'm going to talk a little about like the evolution of ethereum consensus like that there's kind of many meanings in there and i think purposefully so like when we talk about consensus we're talking about very frequently consensus mechanisms this decentralized network the actual technology behind it but but really like these are also it's also a coordination like the whole thing is a social and coordination and a tool and so like ethereum consensus isn't just that piece of technology in the center it's also like the ecosystem it's also an ideology it's also the applications and and how that affects the real world um and so like hopefully we can get into a lot of that um and and the why uh i think everyone has their own way uh i think that there's there's kind of this like deep intuition uh with people at the core of this community and rippling outward that like decentralized technology truly decentralized technology will change the world for the better um and will be very exciting uh as we do it um and so that's that's kind of the why is like we think that we have something good we think that through the iteration refinement of this thing that is good uh this decentralized thing that we can make a positive impact in the world um and another component of that why and why the continued evolution why not just static and we have a network today um and and that that goes into the like the um is this decentralized thing that we have sufficient to make that type of impact that we want um and vitalik often writes about this is like um calls it like functional escape velocity does the current network have enough functionality enough capacity to serve like the demand for this new decentralized technology um and i think if you look at fees if you look at uh just capacity and who has access to the system today um i think that the answer is no and i think that's that's the driving light is like one we think decentralized technology is going to have a massive impact on the world and two what we have today is not it's not it's not going to satisfy that that demand and so we are constantly working on evolving this thing to get to a place that it is truly decentralized and can satisfy you know the global demand that we think will then have an incredible impact on the world yeah definitely to echo that i think for a lot of people it's it's easy to see the potential in something but it's clear that we we're very far from you know recognizing that entire the breadth of potential there's still so much to do and like it was a few years ago when you know transitions or changes happens in the roma roadmap there's always going to be some things that you have to accommodate and make space for the road map is never a static thing um and i guess so so from a community perspective like maybe dc you can talk about this a little bit too but it's like what what role would you say the community has in this you know the researchers are you know they're they're working on hard technical problems they are spending months researching the trade-offs between different technical processes and then at the end of it there's sort of this boiled down distilled answer but it's not really an answer it's more like a pointer into the next direction and so what would you say the role of the community has been in like receiving these these pointers of these um this information over over the years you know as road maps develop danny why don't you start and then you can go to dc um yeah i mean the community has i think quite quite a quite a large role in that and that um the communities the community is the thing that is ethereum like it's again ethereum is like a piece of technology but it's really like a social coordination tool and it's a social coordination tool for the people that are building on it and using it uh now you know almost every day and um thus the community's needs and demands and wants or certainly have to be like a component of the guiding light of the technological evolution and so here's an example um the community needs scaling now the theorem community is scaling now and thus complementary techniques to l1 all these rollups in l2 um are in high demand and are evolving and coming out now and so that that demand and that pressure that's been from the community is actually likely going to have like a significant impact on the layer one uh roadmap in that okay if we go all in on these rollup technologies that allow for scale with the amount of data layer one data then how do how do we at l1 support that uh to to enhance the community enhance that kind of like demand and drive for community and that's give them more l1 data and so thus that kind of like the interplay between l1 technology and l2 technology and community demands and community adoption is kind of like coming together to find a sufficient solution that is decentralized and satisfies ultimately you know the demands of the community um but yeah often you might have a different that's kind of like a technical answer to a community question but i'd love to hear you so yeah i mean i i think from my perspective so first of all we have to view public blockchains like ethereum fundamentally as social technologies i think the biggest mistake we could ever make is to view it solely as this technology effort because really ethereum is all about um connecting people in economically and in other ways and the reality is taking a working blockchain like ethereum which is already securing hundreds of billions of dollars and it could even reach into the trillions over the next year realistically and and just swapping out the consensus mechanism is is pretty difficult um and so i just want to take a moment actually to reflect on kind of what's been accomplished so far by the research and implementation teams and really just thank them and congratulate them i mean even seating this bonded validator network which is really what youth two exists as now with phase zero is such a huge accomplishment i mean people have dedicated billions of dollars of their own assets and capital to the to the hope and to the expectation that this thing called eth2 is realized and i think from an impact on a community perspective there's a few ways in which i think about it so first proof of stake is something that has clearly been anticipated for years and really since i've been involved with ethereum since 2016 this is something i've been looking forward to and obviously it's going to pave the way for a lot of longer term upgrades related to scaling it will eventually include sharding it's going to stack really well with the layer two roll-ups which are kind of emerging right now there are also other reasons why we want to think about this and i think one of them is clearly like the environmental issues which have really started to gain more popular traction at this point and in particular i think a lot of participants in the nft space which i which i am fairly involved with they're bringing these concerns to the forefront now i will say that a lot of those criticisms are not like totally fair they don't necessarily understand exactly all of the ins and outs of how the technology works and i don't necessarily think that proof-of-stake is a waste because the energy is being used for something but if we can use if we can basically offer similar or even better security without expending that energy then then we should do that i think also too from a community perspective a lot of us really view this as a better alignment of incentives for the long-term operation of ethereum as a network and i think that comes down to just the fact that stakers are going to have to stake their eth they're putting it at stake the base asset of the network and so in a very real way they're invested in its success versus miners who on the margin are paid for their work and they don't necessarily have that long-term alignment with the network that's not to say that's true of all minors because a lot of minors are also community members but that's just an incentive shift and i think finally for people who are in the community and i think the community is anyone who uses ethereum or holds ether it does reinforce eth as this economic asset and i think in order for staking to be successful it has to be recognized as an economic asset and so in that way it's a nice companion to functionality like eip1559 and it's desirable by eath holders i i think another underrated point is the fact that ethereum has defy and all of these other applications and uses for each built on top of it going beyond that gas use actually is going to long term make for a more secure proof of stake mechanism because the base asset is useful in so many different ways well said yeah yeah i can i can echo some of that i the often so there's a lot of upgrades coming um phase zero the beacon chain really laid the foundation um for that by putting the the base proof state consensus mechanism in place having these consensus participants validators having tons of them um and having kind of randomness generation and ability to architect them in this in the system to create a more sophisticated system as a whole um but the next one obviously which we've been talking about all morning uh with the talks uh prior shout out to uh ciao lakshman and proto killing it um but i think it's important to highlight like although you know the merge what it does is it kind of keeps ethereum uninterrupted and and puts it in a new home in this new proof of state consensus you know the question might be why what's what's the point other than we pointed we we landed on one um with what dc said in that the clearly it's a consent it's a crypto economic consensus mechanism it doesn't rely on very much a bunch of energy which i think is a major one but there's some other cool stuff that comes along with this that i think aren't talked about that much so i'm just like go through them quickly um it's really like a combination of like a security quick a security upgrade an economic upgrade and a ux upgrade and that there's better security properties um in that when you move from proof of work to proof of stake the in the crypto economic asset securing the protocol is actually in the protocol uh and so you can get a better security margin on the same amount of capital uh kind of backing the protocol so that's that's great i mean ethereum's as jesus said securing like hundreds of billions of dollars of economic activity and we need better security um it's also cheaper for security because you're not paying for like depreciation and like this like hardware upgrade cycle and the energy costs of that um it's lower lower issuance like i just said um which is kind of like it's a security upgrade because uh you can now if you paid the same amount of issuance uh you'd have more security or you can pay like marginally more uh less less insurance but have like a similar higher security which is it also potentially enhances economic properties uh you can debate that all day here's one that people don't talk about often which is you get more regular block intervals so for one the block time is always 12 seconds instead of 15. so that's like a nice marginal ux game uh but you don't have this stochastic process and so you actually have like much more of like a heartbeat and a tick on a proof of stick network um so like the quality of service then is like you know marginally better which is nice uh finality which is nice for ux um this is on the on the normal case like things don't get reorg it's not a big deal but in terms of like major financial transactions and dealing with financial institutions and dealing with uh exchanges and things you could have much stronger guarantees about reorgs and so like even if there was some sort of uh crypto economic attack uh certain there would be limitations on on depths of reorgs and that kind of stuff so like that's pretty important in the finance world um and not bring tons of fossil fuels which like uh is is a nice little icing on on the cake definitely uh a cake that we're all looking forward to soon trademark actually soon actually soon um it's the the we spent a lot we've spent a long time working on this uh the beacon chain working on like the core of this consensus mechanism so that it is uh robust and not only robust but extensible um and and like slotting in the function for the merge uh turns out it's like a few lines of code it's like actually you're like we have this consensus mechanism it comes to consensus on itself you can slot in additional things for it to come to consensus on and so like the application layer the execution of ethereum is actually it's like pretty easy to pop in there but yeah soon tm soon uh yeah i guess i'll um maybe we can jump back a few questions when i was talking about uh the relationship between the research process and the community and i think some people may have this perception that it's um sort of a it's a there's a hard line between the research for the researchers and then the users of that technology that's produced out of the research when in reality it's a much more permeable relationship or a permeable barrier um maybe danny you can talk about what sort of insights you've gotten from the community over the years for example like people participating on test nets just regular community members making prs to clients um what has that been like yeah i mean first of all you kind of mentioned earlier in that like a minor although they a minor has particular incentives you know they also often are a community member or maybe an investor or this or that um and so like our roles are often very complicated and multi-dimensional uh and i'll say it for myself i am you know a researcher and engineer but i also am a staker and i also am a user i was watching eth price last night i was like maybe i should unwind some of this like d5 stuff uh but so we all have a bunch of different perspectives but yes i think um we're some of us are deeper in that stack than others but um the conversation is is first and foremost everything's incredibly open um the ethernet discord is like this incredible place where people are talking about all things layer one um you know i'm scanning through finance every once in a while we're all hanging out on twitter and when you get into github like all the issues around the eips and discussions are incredibly open and so there's there's information first and foremost there's information available to the community the people that are not say according or researchers whatever but there's also like increasingly there's been an open dialogue i think the entire journey but the community has also grown quite a bit um and so there there is an open conversation and dialogue but there's increasingly uh and a nod to trent there's increasingly some efforts to like make that even better uh to make sure we don't get into a place where an eip is about to launch and the community's like but no one's going to use it like how did we miss that um and so uh not only are these doors and community community channels communication channels open but uh i think there's some active and positive growth on growth on increasing those communication channels yeah um i think one of the really awesome things to see over the past year was the growth of the east staker community and their participation and just general support of all the test nets leading up to the beacon chain launch and now there's a really solid community of consistent participants that are giving feedback to client teams you know participating on current test nets things like that and it's there there would be i don't think there would be an equivalent um the research teams wouldn't be able to muster up the same type of thing on their own like it's needed to have this this type of grassroots community that are poking around things breaking things uh it's it's a crucial part of the process there were multiple times leading in the launch of last year when i was like thank god these guys exist and this community exists because you know we would have done we would have been able to do this much and like but with them showing up and filling in that gap and just kind of like taking ownership of this domain like we were able to do this much um and i shout out to like the open source ecosystem and and just ethereum in general if you're new to this or you haven't like figured out that all the doors are open and you can contribute anywhere um that all the doors are open and you can contribute to anything and anywhere um and i i i ask you like if it feels like something's missing it's probably because it is and you can you can you can be the solution to that yeah and i i always think it's funny when people view ethereum development as like this ivory tower where all these decisions are being made as like a dictatorship or something because it's like it's completely the opposite and it's you know for i think most of people who are watching this probably understand but the devs can't just implement whatever upgrade they want they have to create social consensus certainly among node operators but also among users who ultimately give value to the chain so i think and i think the ethereum development process kind of promotes that in a lot of really great ways and i think a lot of that comes back to the fact that we have this multi-client system where not any single team can necessarily dictate the future of what ethereum is and yeah that multi-client process is hugely inefficient and slow sometimes but but if you didn't do it that way um you know you could end up with a result that's truly suboptimal but i think overall um you know ethereum development and certainly more recently on the e2 side really has brought in the community and so you know it was it wasn't that long ago when justin and danny asked me to kind of participate in some of these uh e2 merch discussions as kind of a community advisor participant and and it's it's it's really interesting to see the energy and the excitement of that process especially now as the eth1 and eth2 devs are kind of coming together as one group and so yeah i'm really excited about kind of how we move forward with this effort i want to comment on the like the ivory tower thing and that um the uh when we say the community sometimes it's like what does the community want what is the community it's hard to say like you can call on that sometimes like i don't know what the community wants i like talk to a bunch of people and i kind of have a feel for what's going on but there's certainly things where like the community would trump the developers like tenfold like if if tomorrow three teams were like we're not doing 15 59 we don't like it uh there'd be no way 1559 would not go to mainnet still this year like there'd be a revolt there'd be a new teams there'd be like and and the community actually i i would bet money on it would figure out how to get 1559 to maintenance yeah definitely it speaks to like uh like i have to have mentioned this multi-client culture is really important not just you know for engaging different like different languages or people with different skill sets it's also important socially because there's no way it's much much harder to bottleneck the community from or to prevent them from doing something that they see is really important if you have multiple implementations uh there's there's some freedom there to pursue different outcomes if for some in some possible future like uh ethereum researchers went rogue and decided to do like a proof of authority chain or something we'd be like no we're not doing that we'll find some other people but yeah um and related to that can you can you perhaps talk about what this future uh execution and consensus client relationship will look like because as many people are familiar there's you know eth1 clients gap uh i'm not gonna list them all but there's a there's a bunch and there's also a bunch of e2 clients and what is actually going to happen at the merge how are these teams going to work together what's the separation of concerns there yeah so we started writing about this a little over a year ago now there's a couple youth research posts and that's like exploring okay the beacon chain is coming but like what does this actually look like with respect to eth one the current theorem main net uh what does it look like with respect to the beacon chain as it launches and like the software and the different teams um and so we've had uh we have these eth1 clients uh which hopefully i won't even have to call them that eventually um that what are they what is an eth1 client it's actually this like thin consensus mechanism called proof of work that we have not touched at all since the launch of ethereum and then everything else that they work on uh is really like this execution layer it's really like state and evm and transaction management and all the things that the end user really really interacts with like the proof of work provides like the service it provides like the cradle for all these things um and then the complexity of an eth1 client and all the work that's that's you see like in optimizations of state management and all that crazy stuff is in this execution layer and so what is the beacon chain what are these these eth2 clients been doing for for years now and it's creating a highly sophisticated proof-of-stake consensus mechanism and what are they what are these teams good at they're good at managing tons of validators they're good at managing rewards and balances they're good at managing tons of these like messages cryptographic messages coming in together and aggregating them um and and and managing and protecting against certain attack scenarios on the core proof-of-stake consensus and so then what is the merge the merges take this one client take that get rid of that that proof-of-work module that we haven't touched for years and is like very wasteful and energy consumption and replace it with the beacon chain essentially the beacon chain is this proof-of-stake module and we're plugging it together with these executions this highly sophisticated execution layer that we've been building for years um and so it's the of proof-of-stake beacon chain module then driving similar how the proof of work module was driving the execution layer the stake module will be driving the execution there and so in practice um in in what you're seeing in the ranis and test nets and the specs right now is uh take both pieces of software run them together and instead of the proof-of-work module uh controlling the fork choice and telling it where the head is and things like that instead it's really it's a beacon chain client you can create a thin communication protocol i think it's like four messages um which is like add new execution payload set new head give me valuable execution payload which is similar to like what the proof of work module would be doing um and but it's the beacon chain telling say you know it's lighthouse telling geth how to manage the execution layer or it's prism telling the other mind how to manage the execution there and with this communication protocol we get optionality too you know i can take my favorite e2 client that i've run as a validator i'm very comfortable with and i can plug it into the execution layer that gives me you know what what i'm looking for say now that mine has these like great sync capabilities and and i'm very excited about that team and so i can plug that into my my lighthouse uh my lighthouse beacon node and so it's cool because we get we get optionality on these different layers um and we also get specialization team specialization these different layers so we have these teams that are really good at proofstay consensus and they can focus laser stay laser focused on that we have teams that are really good at the evm and state management they can save laser focus on that and so this like modular separation of concerns and layers is really exciting and actually complements if you if you followed turbo guth they have the silkworm project which is to not only have a modular uh consensus consensus module uh or execution module but to also take other components like the p2p and take the the mempool and other things and like actually put those into modular components so that we can have further specialization in teams and software um and so it all kind of fits together really nicely and and i'm really excited about it yeah i mean it's it's i don't want to say it's like a happy happy accident but it really is a wonderful outcome that you can have these different it's it really is a different client philosophy i think where you have like you said separation of concerns people can focus on what their domain uh where their domain experts um maybe a question is do you see any of these teams emerging or like if they have a similar code a similar language or you know will they kind of maintain their editorial independence or you know two teams from execution and consensus yeah so we we might see some of that um i don't know if we'll see team mergers but we do see certain companies and teams do have a client on both sides of the aisle so like uh consensus has the bessu ethwan and teku eth2 client um and they could go with this communication protocol which i would i would argue is is is a good thing to do because then end users have more optionality and maybe choose to use one not the other rather than having like very tight lock-in um but they're built in the same language as the same team so they could instead take the components of bessu take the execution engine and and turn it into a library and like plug it into um into taku and that that's that's some like there's definitely some interesting architecture stuff to explore uh you can also imagine taking geth and make it a shared object library and people import it i don't love that especially out the gate because then i think you lose some optionality and you begin to like entrench these tightly coupled clients and so i think it might be a loss for some of the client diversity that we'd hope to see but i think we will see some experimentation there similarly nimbus uh they have a production eth2 beacon chain client and they have something that it's like rnd eth1 client i think they're picking up again so you could see them experiment with similar too and if we go the shared object library kind of thing like um i hope that we see like a a very uh a good standard so that you know i can as a configuration parameter i could be like import guest but then you know three days later like screw it i actually want to import another mind um and you know from it from a software perspective it would look and feel like you're interacting with the same library but uh to net today we're definitely going with this kind of like rpc modular communication approach as as the first go at it and by the way on the topic of ease one and e2 i know i'm not the only one on this call who looks forward to eliminating that terminology once we merge and there's just one ethereum and i think that's actually been we can we can hindsight is 2020 but i feel like the naming kind of connoted the wrong idea behind behind ethereum as we evolve into this proof-of-stake architecture for consensus and and there always has been a vision for one ethereum this is just kind of the next part of it so for me it's it's really exciting just to see the teams come together um with all of that brain power and and and great thoughts around how to progress ethereum working together on the same client on the same on the same uh network right uh you heard me speak over and over again and said false sequentiality um and and i think teams are beginning to to adopt these terms a little bit more and post merchants we'll see them a lot and like you have the consensus layer you have the proof of stake consensus layer and that there's beacon chain clients that run that and then you have the execution layer you have execution engines and you have uh what is an eth one client is is really the facilitates that so i think we'll hopefully see some conformance on that terminology over time yeah definitely um while we were talking about client teams merging with a possibility i couldn't help but think that this is like celebrity uh power couples where they like merge their names so with best doing tech it would be like beku um i'm happy to take this offline and consult to consensus what i think the best uh name combinations would be but we'll have to yeah yeah because and at home i'd be like oh well i run um guesthouse you know oh well no i run i run netherism you can do a whole bunch of permutations um i i don't i don't have anything to follow that up with but i think we should start thinking of these names because it's going to be important it's critical yeah i mean naming is critical uh related to what you said like um i think it's one of the like like dc said it's hindsight is 2020. naming is incredibly hard and clearly eth1 and eth2 i think the the phrase now is eth1 plus eth2 is ethereum like that's the simplest way to put it and we just need to keep hammering this message of you know they're on separate tracks today but very soon they're just gonna we're just gonna call it ethereum and that that'll be the easiest way um the reality is like once you say something or put it out in the world it takes you know a month or two to permeate out to the edges of the network at least yeah and then undoing that is really hard so i mean that that goes it also plays into like just the the general bizarre uh nature like decentralized um contributor sets nobody really controls this entire process um there are people who have authority to say certain things sometimes but in reality it comes down to it's a very grassroots bottom-up process and so you know naming something it's uh eth1 or eth2 a year ago it takes a while to change um and it's just kind of part of the process that we signed up for and it's you know it it'll just take another repetition to adjust people's um well and we have like a we have an attempted new nomenclature right now but like i will we will see we will see how that develops and and you know if and what changes kind of enter into lexicon right definitely um let's see what else i think we are close to time but uh we may have a little bit of extra i think we kind of had a far-ranging discussion i don't know if we need to keep going i i this might be a good place to end it um unless danny or after you want to jump in with any closing thoughts what's what's next maybe oh i have a sure go ahead no you're good this is a question for aftob and uh and trent will the merge launch this year uh i'll i'll i'll start off but i think that would be incredibly optimistic and that would be incredible um and i think the merge will launch when it's ready and i think that i think what's exciting now is that there's a lot of energy behind making it a priority certainly after the fork in july potentially focusing effort solely on that after that or shortly thereafter so i know both those sets of teams will do everything they can so maybe maybe certainly by early 2022 if not by the end of the year yeah definitely uh it would be amazing if it happened this year i don't know if danny's putting us through like his prediction market experience experiment um no people just always ask me so i felt like i finally got opportunity to ask somebody else all right well hopefully i don't end up being quoted in an article danny deferred his response to trent and yeah it would be amazing if it happened this year you know december last year we had the launch of beacon chain and to follow it up a year later with the next massive step forward would be it would be the best christmas present a boy could ask for uh but we'll see we'll see yeah and i'll echo it's it's not an incredibly complicated upgrade but it's an incredibly important upgrade that we get correct and so i think uh the long tail is going to be around security and testing um and and you know rayonism is really the first kind of engineering whack at it uh and at some point in the summer we'll kind of be shifting gears into like deep security and testing um and and that's i think you know we'll get a better feel around them yeah definitely i mean it goes without saying that the there's not an arbitrary date that we're going to set to hold ourselves to it security is paramount obviously launching this year would be nice to have but you know the reality is this is a network that hosts billions of dollars of value and uh there's we're not going to push things to jeopardize that um i think that might be it uh kartik you want to wrap up with anything no i mean i was just going to say this has been a very awesome casual nice discussion i feel like this is more of a community gathering and i think i'd like to wrap this up in the same way that danny you started like consensus is not on the technical side this is about social economies sort of moving together in a direction and that requires a lot of moving pieces to kind of come and uh and actually be uh in just without using the word consensus they can just they have to be actually agreed upon and uh and uh dealt with so uh it's been a it's been a monumentous effort in uh doing this in the last few years of getting not only just the tech but the people the community whether it's miners or developers or a researcher is uh kind of all in the same place and on the same page uh to get everything moving forward and uh this has been a really awesome perspective on how that's gone from each of your sites and hopefully uh trent we get to see a lot more perspectives and details in the book and uh danny um and uh hopefully uh uh some of these bets that were just kind of made on uh come true this year [Laughter] i don't think i don't think dan actually said his prediction oh no you you and uh you at dc i defer to the experts [Laughter] well maybe we'll uh we'll now have the same question asked when we do a d5 hackathon and that's when we can actually have a market around this question but uh without uh with that i mean i want to just thank all of you again and uh hopefully we get to answer a few more questions that have popped up on the chat directly on on each global.tv so thanks again and uh looking forward to seeing the merge happen on production