@Superphiz and @AustinGriffith Explore Blockchain Games

you're on you dude you're on mute you're on mute oh got it there we go my dude mariano is here i'm wearing his shirt and everything how you doing man how are you good good so glad to be here man it's not friday so it's not the bow tie but no but i like the t-shirt every day is friday next week where's the guy man where's the bow tie all right we'll let it slide all right so we're about to jump into our evening expose which is our fun time right we did our we did our like serious stuff this afternoon right so we were like you know talking about i mean the the content today was insane right it was so good um but now it's we're moving into fun time so we've got a blockchain games expose live stream sort of tutorial walkthrough etc etc so tell us what you got on tap man what's going on dude we're thinking so blockchain games are are kind of weird and different right you can't do movement you can't do randomness you have to figure out ways around things you have to lean into strange things side chains are going to be kind of a bell of the ball here until until we see something more like optimism on on chain so we're just really gonna play a bunch so we're gonna we're gonna look at probably like the first chunk of time we're just gonna look at like quick playthroughs let's we i we had jiho from axi we have like we have some big names here to show us their games we're going to play games and then we're going to kind of like sort of transition into getting like into the weeds in dark forest and we're going to really look at a particular game that has kind of captured uh uh the the essence of ethereum really well and show that off and show show kind of i i'm gonna give i'm gonna give like uh here's what makes a good game and then we're gonna go through the games and see how they fit up and then we're gonna go into dark forest and see why it is such a great game and i've got a bunch of friends here to play games with us too it's it's gonna be so exciting it's like game jam man you're gonna do like a whole review system and like go through a bunch of things and just like blow it like pop my sprockets man like let's do it all right so let's bring your guys in like who else we got yeah we got unvetica we got super fizz we got cheeto we got michael from sky weaver hey everybody hey guys i just realized every time i do this my flabby arms show that i'm not doing push-ups so i'm going to stop doing that hey everyone hey good to see you well hey welcome everybody we're gonna we're gonna get off your stage here and let you guys jam at it so uh have a good time thanks for the contribution and we'll see you around to space have fun guys awesome you don't have to leave mariano yeah one of us man you're one of us very honestly i'm getting married please today mariano if you i you if you have to okay like if you're a family but if you want to get around and see this it might be fun i can stay i can stay i want to see so okay we should you know what the game is austin the game is how many people can we con into this into this box like forget the proposition we're here to play a game and the game is what we define the limit is 12 by the way technology it's 12. let me just clarify that right now thank you jonathan [Laughter] so if speaking speaking of jonathan if you could throw my screen up here for a second i want to just show this there we go wow you are quick geez okay let me zoom in a little bit so i'm going to go all the way back to 2018 april 2018 and talk about uh what makes a blockchain game a good game this is this is avsa from a couple years ago really talking about what makes a good game and i think he like lays out the rubric right here for us years later even so first of all it's got to be a good game right second of all it's got to explore what makes blockchain unique third you've got to design around limitations you've you've got a public chain you've got deterministic transactions right you don't have randomness number four persistent always on world number five players own the game the items and the experiences number six allow anyone to design and improve the game and number seven embrace bots a very hard thing to do but that's that's good and then i think at the very end he throws in remember like money is kind of at the protocol here so you can reward your players with real value with real money and a lot of great gamers here i think in the thread that we we we tried to get on and and there were some family emergencies there too but uh okay we can switch back from sharing the screen now thank you very much jonathan uh i think probably the best place to dive in is is the number one game right now uh in terms of users and that's axie and and we have jiho here and it is your birthday i believe or yesterday was your birthday it's my birthday now yeah this is my first ethereum conference i think um i'm i'm one of the ones who you know it's it's hard i'm usually in asia or it can be difficult to kind of make it to these different places and i prefer to you know i prefer not to travel so i'm you know have a lot of a lot of work to do so this is much easier for me so uh can we get a screen share from you and can we run through axiomfinity and kind of look at like what the heck is axi and how does it how does it work and how does it play yeah can we definitely i'm gonna try to all open questions please ask who who has tried sharing my screen am i muted no yeah i have not i've never played i've seen a lot of people play okay how many people on this call have played axiomfinity i was i was going to check it out and austin's like you know it's better to have an organic first time experience and so i've been very stoked to learn about it but i haven't actually dug in yet so this is great okay so it can get a little bit complex right axi isn't just one game axis axi is an entire kind of series of games built on top of these cute pets that you're looking at right we kind of believe in this idea of vertical interoperability where over time you're adding more and more uh utility more and more experiences to these game assets and that's one of the ways to kind of yeah create value out of thin air right you're adding more utility baking more fun into these assets but today i guess what i'll go through is our first application our first game built on top of axi which is a card based battle system so you can see that you know each so basically you'll get a team of three axes each axi has six different body parts those body parts go with four of those body parts go with different cards right so these are the cards that you can use in battle and yeah you know well we were definitely inspired by cryptokitties right so we have this genetic system that's on chain we have a breeding system i think the cool thing is that you know there's a a community of very intense breeders who are kind of doing theory crafting saying hey i think that these cards would go well together so i need to breed this type of axi right so it's kind of like because there's an actual genetic system and there's a meta that evolves over time the population is actually evolving as well to kind of you know suit the different trends in the in the battle so i think yeah you know to talk a little bit about what makes axi unique um so yes there is this idea of played earn where you know the in-game resources many of them are actually erc20 tokens right so we have uh slp these love potions which are uh you actually are need these to breed axes we but you can also earn things like dye kyber network crystals even digix uh real gold and we also have a governance token which you know means that our players will earn part of the game just by playing um and you know that's actually uh let's see you can see here that uh you know players can earn these axis tokens by placing on the leaderboard and these access tokens have fee sharing and governance rights so it's really kind of yeah it's like i think ethereum and these governance tokens actually create this a new future where just like in ready player one developers will start to give away their games to the community why because okay you can save twenty percent of the game give away the other eighty percent and then all of a sudden you have a supercharged hive mind that's you know working to spread the game and is super is super uh engaged so uh yeah you know so basically we have uh we have both uh um an adventure mode as well as a pvp arena mode for the for this game and so i'll just show kind of basically how the battle system works in a very simple level um you know if you guys want to learn more about the pvp definitely check out the taxi infinity youtube videos we have a bunch of content creators and making stuff like that so basically yeah each card has attack or defense some of them cost energy some of them don't and obviously it's balanced and based based on the energy cost as well and so yeah and then you know you can then go so kind of the battle system is actually kind of similar to a kind of roguelike deck building games that you might be familiar with if you're like if you're like a card if you're like a card and gamer uh slave aspire definitely a big influence and yeah we have we're actually working on a v2 of the battle system right now there's kind of a parallel turn structure where uh and especially in pvp both both sides pick cards at the same time and then press enter and then see the result it's a little bit unintuitive so we're making it a little bit uh we're making it more like a back and forth where you play your cards uh they then play their cards and you're able to respond and so it's going to be a little bit more fast paced and intuitive the fast pace just a little bit like this feels and looks like web 2. what's the secret to making that work like that yeah so basically i mean so one of our design philosophies is uh you know we're you know we have the ownership only put on chain um what you need to have on chain right so for us the axi ownership is on chain the genetic data is on chain uh breeding axes is on chain and then the secondary market is on chain um this you know you know everything that you see here the calculations the game logic this is on a server and and but then yeah you know so basically when you earn it also if you're earning different tokens um those are you know stored on our server until you then submit a transaction to claim them to your ethereum wallet so yeah it's it's a uh i guess i would say a hybrid solution but it's one i think that works and i think um is uh yeah so i think like yeah you obviously have other types of approaches right that are like kind of the game logic is fully on chain and i think yeah there is a lot of design space to be explored with that over time especially as the tech uh progresses i i saw the battle scene um but then i also saw this quest thing is is there um is the gameplay uh specifically about those battle scenes or is there um like a a broader scope to it uh so the quest um [Music] so basically it says i'm not sure if i understood the question correctly but basically the quest system is about uh yeah so the uh in order to complete like the daily quest which gets you 50 slp which is around the dollar so it's kind of cool right complete the daily quest of the game earn a dollar um and so in order to do that you need to win five pvp battles so this is like a rerun of a pvp battle um and then you also need to win 10 adventure mode uh battles right so uh this is the kind of game where the core is to to build your deck of of characters and then pvp them is that yeah so yeah so that's kind of like the goal of this right it's like uh try and find the best combination of three axes that you can and and yeah i can analyze the meta counter the meta build up a collection right so it's obviously if you can get more axes you can have more versatile counters to the prevailing current meta that you know creates a lot that also creates demand for axes which kind of drives the in-game economy cool starts the game work in terms of admittedly i haven't played firsthand but i did read a little bit about it and in terms of the scalability of the game in relation to side chains it sounded like uh there's some development happening with ronin so can you kind of explain how that fits in with this game and what problem that solves definitely so yeah we're building ronin which is a side chain built specifically for blockchain games and nfts and we're going to use it ourselves initially and it yeah and so basically it's actually it's actually live on mainnet it settled the largest nft sale of all time yesterday which is 1.5 million dollars for a bundle of axi land plots so yeah yeah this is just one right so there's there's this is just the battle system um land is a another game mode that's also under construction we put out a demo in december so that's something also that you know you want to check out you can find on youtube and uh so that was called project k anyways so basically right now land and items are on the side chain it's working and and you know as as we make sure that you know that everything is working well we'll then transition to basically doing an axi migration we'll migrate all of our axes from ethereum to to that side chain there will be a bridge that allows you to you know and use that bridge to send things back and forth between ethereum and ronin um yeah i mean i think that layer twos and side chains are kind of commodities like they're it's it's not necessarily exactly like rocket science and there's a lot of really good teams that have done great work on it um i think our approach is that you know we we've uh we we prefer to kind of handcraft a lot of our experiences for our players because we feel that we know the best and so yeah that's that's so that's our approach to scalability you know can you i feel like just real quick oh god uh i'm putting you on the spot a little bit um but can you just real quick look at it for the newcomers maybe not um in the know to block chains and how things work why that's important for a side chain like what's the importance of it in relation to like a main chain type of game yeah definitely so a side chain right now ethereum gas fees are so high right it costs uh it costs about 15 to list your axi on the marketplace or even more right it costs a lot of money so that it doesn't even make sense to claim your battle rewards unless you have you know 50 plus dollars in unclaimed rewards which luckily like many of our players are able to have um so but this creates a lot of friction all around you know uh progressing in the game claiming your rewards expanding your collection and the worst part is onboarding right in order to start playing you require three axes um and you know the gas fees for that can be as high as fifty dollars each right so uh yeah so basically the side chain allows you to uh kind of reduce the gas fees and essentially even to zero but also if you want to use um you know but but also allows your user base to send things like the game assets and their cryptocurrency that they've earned on the side chain back to ethereum and so you they might want to do that because ethereum will always be the most secure blockchain um right it has a uh so yeah if they for example if you have a axi that's worth a million dollars and you might want to hold it on ethereum just as like an extra safety precaution rather measure right um also uh yeah ethereum has a lot of d5 applications and things like that so okay say you earned a thousand dollars playing axi and we don't have uniswap on ronin we don't have a unispot fork on ronin yet or abe which is basically a decentralized bank or maker dial right um so if you want to access these d5 protocols especially at the beginning you might have to send your winnings back from ronin to ethereum maintenance uh does that make sense sorry i said i'm trying to straight up no it absolutely does yep no that's great i appreciate that i'd like to slip in two questions um my first one is the ronin chain is really interesting to me that that concept of a dedicated game chain because you know a lot of the things that we're doing right now are taking advantage of kind of public side chains um so you know dark force is taking advantage of the x die and it's in many cases overwhelming x die and so i love this proposition of a dedicated game side chain what yeah i would love to you know i would love to learn a little bit more about you know uh how uh dark force is overwhelming um xdi i'm i'm i'm i'm a big supporter of xday i think it's great i'm an investor through medicare televentures as well um but yeah i i think that you know this makes sense i think they're going to be many different um nft related side chains right it's kind of like i see them as little colonies right they're little offshoots of ethereum where you're going to have different populations different colonists but we're all united by this culture united by this currency um and this vision so well i love that no no one who's interested no someone who's not interested in axis shouldn't need to process all of the transactions and so it's really neat for we can have all of these ecosystems who kind of maintain their own side chain and they're still checking back in with the main chain and it's sort of uh i really feel like that's a great scaling solution and you know that's kind of the thing we're all looking for right now yeah so i think like the future right is basically these ideas of like zk sinks their optimistic roll-ups um where basically you have a you have a you know a another you have another kind of small little chain it could be you know you might call it a layer two or a side chain but then and then you have validators all right and then you have those validators posting some kind of merkle proof or some kind of basically some transaction that everything going on and going on on the side chain or the layer two is uh legitimate right so then you might might different side chain different solutions might you know have it run every 30 minutes every 60 minutes right and and there's different flavors but i think generally you know that's where we're going to see more and more of that's neat to learn because i know a lot of us um i spent a lot of time with eth2 but i'm still wrapping my mind around what scaling is going to look like and seeing this ronin chain being specifically for axi kind of helps me put another uh piece in that puzzle so that's neat it's kind of like great it's kind of like charting right like i think that's it's just we're sharding now because we need to um we have users um at this moment so jc on discord has a question so i'm going to probably read it to verbatim uh my question for axi prez right now is is actually a game where if i join new right now i'm on a level playing field with my opponent or if my opponent has already has mature axes so i have little hope yeah this was a good question and i would say that the main thing is the learning curve on figuring out which actual axes go well together um but for example with the the the arena it's not like your axes get stronger as you battle right there's um they don't get their uh yeah and then the progression will be mainly kind of like cosmetic in the future as well um so that's just as to say it's like your opponents won't destroy you because their axes are really stronger they might beat you because your their axes like fit better together um so there are a couple of you know sites like axi.zone where you can really see the teams of the best players on the leaderboard you can see like the top 200 players what types of axes they're using what axes go well together you can look at stats on the meta if you do your research and then you know kind of get your first team then you know uh the the the next part is just figuring out you know how to play your card strategically so yeah i guess you know i would i would say that there's a definitely a learning curve in the future you'll be able you'll get a team of free axes that are not tokenized that don't actually earn uh you know full rewards but that might synergize well together and you can actually just start playing the game learn how to play your cards before making any economic decisions so that might be something worth waiting for as well so the the asset interrupt is something we should probably dive into a little bit the fact that you can have this sword here and it's just an erc 721 with some properties and then anyone can build a game on top of that and and you know my crypto kitty can wield that sword and now it makes him twice as potent when he makes sweet love to another crypto kitty so something along those lines right and you also talked about how those can be off chain too you can have your assets on chain and then you can have all sorts of these fun kind of web 2 games that are still database driven kind of playing around with these games but then when you need to settle okay that person lost even our server signs it and it goes into a contract and and someone loses loses that the axi that they had but okay that's cool i think it's awesome and i think we'll lean into it kind of as a thing throughout the thing i want to dive into is how randomness doesn't work and how breeding worked with crypto kitties you had basically this unverified contract you just saw this by code and you were you were basically hitting this bite code and it was breeding your cats for you and you had no idea what was going on i'm sure people reverse engineered that but how did you guys deal with it yeah that's a really good question and we used oracle eyes okay um so so oracle eyes i don't even know if that still exists um but in the beginning we use oracle eyes for different things like rolling axi attributes both in like the initial sale and also breeding um we then built our own a kind of version of that um so you know i would say that you know that's you know definitely um you know not fully decentralized um right now uh we're we're like looking at uh chain links vrf um verified um yeah randomness the r has to be randomness doesn't it yeah verified randomness something um function verified verifiable randomness function i think um and uh we're looking at using that for uh for you know certain certain uh kind of luck based or probability based things within the game it's funny so one of our metrics here is a persistent world and a concern for someone entering a persistent world we've already heard it tonight what's going to happen when i get in there and i'm a noob and there's all these awesome people but it sounds like it's more like your persistent world is more like a persistent set of rules and the game has to be played and and no one's really gonna get like a huge up on someone else and so someone can always come in and play and yeah i mean i think it's also right it's like about okay world of warcraft is a persistent world but what happens to noobs right is like they start at level one and uh you know they go on their own path right so traditionally what happens is that pvp is typically end game material right like you do pvp after you fully leveled up your character i was you know really big into wow pvp diablo 2 pvp all right so these are all things that you know unless you're there's like very small subcultures where you're using under uh leveled characters to pvp but traditionally it's an endgame thing how do you get to the end game like you you know you grind monsters and so that's also another way to look at it um yeah within axi the cool thing is yeah you can you know get three axes that go well together start battling and also it's like we have an mmr system right so right now you can see that okay my ranking is 1234 so that means i'm number 5447 on the leaderboard um so i'm only going to match with people who are you know that's one of the good things about having a larger user base for a pvp game is you know you have more you have a better fit right with the mmr matching um that's that was another thing that we needed to bootstrap right that's another reason that you use play to earn if you pay people to play your game then you get a faster q and that makes growth speed up because okay the faster q makes the game more fun so uh i would say like one way to explain play to earn to you know very blockchain skeptical devs is you know if you it actually makes sense to pay your first 10 000 users right because you need to get that network effect going especially in a pvp game where queue time is so crucial right when we first started like the queue times were three to five minutes another you know three to five seconds that makes a huge difference on the player experience i think we're losing mariano here good night yeah have uh have a great call yeah it's almost 10 p.

m here but this is oh incredibly interesting so i'll uh i'll be sure to catch the recording though so glad you can stick with us thank you have a great night bye-bye bye-bye because there's one thing that you mentioned we can also uh watch and watch i get a match basically immediately this is a real person this is a live game yeah this is a live game this is another person all right so basically i have a plan i'm gonna try and take out their and let's see so what's going through your head here what numbers are you looking at what's interesting i see like there's health for everybody i see that they all kind of have a different kind of signal by their number yeah so basically uh typically what happens is you will optimize for hp which is this number here as well as uh defense uh rights which is this on your first axi right because axes always attacked the first one so this is their tank so i'm trying to take that down there's also like a class advantage system kind of like similar to pokemon where you know water is strong against fire beasts are strong against plant and plant are strong against aquatic and bird um so yeah and there's six different classes so that's one thing that you know um is one of the things to kind of memorize and get used to so here i i don't i don't uh i'm just gonna defend and and see what happens he is also defending right so this is one of the weird things about the current battle system is you have to kind of try and anticipate what the other person is going to do and that can uh it makes it really fun kind of like you know poker in some way where you're both like trying to speculate what the other person has but some people don't like that kind of game um and it makes it kind of difficult um it adds even another further layer of complexity on top so that's why we're basically right now right so there's a parallel turn structure we're both picking our cards and then we'll both see what the other person did and we're going to be migrating or transitioning away from that and so yeah um yeah so basically uh yeah there's this is my energy right so i can only play this amount of energy in a turn i get three more energy i get three more cards each turn and so yeah sometimes it makes sense to like try and save energy sometimes it makes sense to like go all out it's also you're trying to think what the other person is going to do are they going to go all out if they're going to go out all out i'm i might uh try and defend um you know so it's kind of like there are a bunch of minor games i guess to be played and some of them are fun and some of them make the game a little bit unnecessarily complicated is uh kind of our uh diagnosis right now wonderful hey cheers on vedica there we go someone's drinking i mean this is like a thing right this is an event this is eat denver i wanted a beer so bad but i forgot when we did our grocery order and i was going to be like all the cool kids but here i am with my water i'm on water too there we go got team water i love it i would be so much more fun i'm so much brighter when i'm when i'm drinking so i i think a lot of the the randomness and the unchainedness you kind of got around by doing this sort of assets on chain game off chain kind of stuff so there's not there's not as much of that to kind of lean into here once once your assets are on chain and you can do all sorts of fun stuff with some kind of central server and still send like this guy lost this axi that it definitely opens up and there's a lot of neat stuff to do so i feel like there's less to dive into in terms of the on-chain stuff um i don't know any closing questions here you guys foreign so one thing that i'll say right is one thing that i'll say is it i think it makes sense to try and optimize for decentralization in the right areas right so does it matter if every uh you know aspect of the game logic is unchained if some entity owns a hundred percent of the game right so that's also the data might be very open uh and uh decentralized but the ownership structure of the game is very centralized right so what we're trying to do is optimize for a very a real you know a very decentralized ownership structure of the game right like a game that is owned by the community um and we're less about um you know making sure that all the the game logic um actually goes unchained does it is that helpful framing yeah yep did you win you're you're close though right i think i might win an interesting thing where i slowed him i i did this debuff and so turn order is kind of important and so i slowed him which made me and made it so that now i'm gonna attack first in the next turn um so i might be i think i'm gonna win let's see the interesting fun little emergent things about what makes a game fun like you you you cleverly sort of outcrafted him knowing knowing what was gonna happen and and played it well and that's always so much fun as a player oh nice oh no did you get him you got him yeah i got him i got it what's his name can we can we talk some some to whoever that guy you just got beat by the maker of the game people people have always find it funny and they know they don't they think that someone is like trying to scam uh scam other scam people um when when they play against me they're like oh someone is pretending to be you like no that's actually yeah there's liquidity for these on uniswap finance um so yeah it's it's good stuff each one of these is around three cents or two let's say two and a half cents it's like i won 15 cents after winning that game amazing awesome thank you so much for showing us this this was this is the best demo we could have gotten i loved it any any closing questions you guys and and geo you're welcome to just stay here and i'm not even pronouncing your name right probably you're right isn't it that's perfect because i got it okay we're just going to keep gaming and hanging out i think there may be like a poep thing my whole january i was worthless because of this damn game sorry no it's because i only came for the poe app so michael tell me how to get a poet yes yes yes yeah okay right so we all know about i hope if you don't know about pawap they're all over the place on this east denver uh if you check out the virtual world they're all over the place there's a scavenger hunt but for this event specifically uh the e-staker crew is giving away a pull-up for viewers of the live stream if you aren't already part of the e-staker discord you can join us at invite dot gg slash east staker you'll find the po-op channel and pinned to that channel are all the instructions on how to interact with the poet bot you'll need a secret key phrase and today's key phrase appropriately enough dark forest so you'll dm the po-op bot directly direct message to the poet bot with uh the key word phrase dark forest space capitalization no space uh space two words uh capitalization does not matter uh i i just uh-oh d a r k space f o r e s t and got us and got a x ooh nice jonathan with the overlay check it out real quick first i accidentally messaged the test bot one time and on deck is michael he's about to prepare us some sky weaver gaming too so we're gonna play a similar game and talk about some similar uh uh limitations right and i think you guys you guys have leaned into matic it's funny everyone here kind of has a different flavor and i think we'll see matic with with the sky weaver guys matic is currently my favorite test net or not i'm sorry my favorite side chain so it is no it is a test net matic and x die keep saying this that these side chains are test nets they're testing value any valuable chain is that's like saying gurley is a is a main chain like it's a it's a valuable change if if the security is good enough on gourley for me to mint a token and sell buy and sell it with people then then it's good right i've okay okay so at any rate matic today especially with a polygon announcement is my favorite um it is surpassing my love for ex-die today wow momentarily yes yeah that's okay that's that's what we're here for these these uh it's all about what gets the job done right are we should we dive into sky weaver should we figure out the poeps yes yes you guys stop your time and i will fix the co-op okay awesome i just have a quick question is dark forest inspired by the name by the three body problem trilogy it sure is sick i read that book last year that trilogy and it yeah it's the most mind-blowing trilogy i've ever read i adore it okay okay after your presentation because i haven't read the books will you summarize that link just a little bit because i'm curious about it but that doesn't mean i'm actually going to read the book i'm just curious okay yeah yeah cool that's cool man yeah all right so i'll dive into sky now i'll share my screen here cool so i'm just gonna jump right into a match just to show you guys uh the gameplay and um in case you don't know skyreaver it's a free-to-play browser-based cross-platform card game so you can play it on mobile laptop um where you can own trade and gift your cards so it's it's deeply strategic like magic the gathering while being easy to learn more like hearthstone and the player owned marketplace and economy lets you win tradable cards uh on your journey to becoming a legendary sky reaper so hopefully the frame rate's not too bad i have a few applications running here but um yeah at the start i'll be presented with a mulligan screen and i'm just going to choose four cards to begin my deck with so i'm going to choose swamp walker and pale gus and vanessa and you know i'm sure all you guys have played card games before or maybe you haven't but for anyone who hasn't uh the the goal of the game is to bring my enemies hero which is this block creature up here down to zero um this is a pvp game so you do play other humans but i'm just playing a bot uh because i don't anticipate going through the whole match um and yeah so each each and every one of these cards in skyreaver there are 500 unique cards each with unique mechanics and special abilities um and up in the top left there's a mana cost so gus he costs two to play uh you can see over in the bottom left i have two mana which means that i am gonna deploy gus onto the field um and then i can also play songbird and yeah he has the ability banner so when he's on the field my hero actually gains plus one power um and i'm gonna end my turn because i don't have anything else to do at the moment and again we're not waiting for block times here you guys are going back and forth things feel very immediate yeah are you doing extra tricks on top of just having the side chain or is there is there more there or is it jason's basically like thank you side chain for being so fast you know so it's actually card ownership that's on chain whereas the gameplay itself isn't so similar to axi just putting what needs to be on chain on chain and then leaving everything else off um so yeah i think like this gives you guys sort of um a sense for the gameplay itself there's obviously like tons of strategy you can combine different cards to defeat your opponents over here you can look into your deck you don't know the order that your cards are going to be distributed to you but it allows you to strategize um and then over here you can like take a peek into your graveyard these are cards i've played already um it's really cool sky weaver is a singleton game which means you can only have one copy of each card in your deck uh this is different than games like hearthstone where you can have mult uh or and magic where you can have multiple copies and it just adds for like more dynamic gameplay and um actually something that i'll show you guys too is that in sky weaver a lot of cards they come with attached spells or enchants um we'll see if any pop up here let's see okay so here's one so this swamp walker unit that i'm playing into the field it has this attached spell called foul stench and the spells are one time use so it just adds more dynamic to the game um and of course uh you can own and trade these different cards so i'm actually gonna i'm gonna concede this match to just show you more of the ecosystem uh jiho beats a noob and you just concede to a bot i did yeah man it's gonna take like 10 minutes and i just i want to show you guys around the rest of the around the rest of sky so in sky weaver so you could you can play the game entirely for free and all 500 base cards uh can be unlocked through gameplay through free play simply by leveling up and earning xp and this allows you to collect and construct decks but these base cards they're non-tradable items so they essentially they expand your gameplay abilities and in in skyrim there are two different um main game types so there's discovery and constructed discovery you play with a randomized deck and then construct it as a mode where you play with a deck that you've built and you've strategized um and then so i mentioned there's the free base cards but we also have so by competing in the game and um actually ascending the ranks on the worldwide leaderboard and i'll give you guys a glimpse of it the top players on our leaderboard they'll actually be rewarded with silver cards and what silver cards are are tradable versions of the base cards with cosmetic enhancement so they don't provide you any gameplay advantage but they are tradable and then built into skyreaver we actually have this peer-to-peer marketplace decentralized marketplace uh we we created something called the nifty swap protocol uh largely inspired by uni swap and it's an automated market maker to make it buying and selling super easy for players and i can go on here and these are all cards i own um and i'm toggling by just looking at my silver cards so i can go ahead and like this card hydrate if i want i can click and see you know deeper stats on it and like what decks people are playing with it in just some more meta about the card itself um and then i can also just look at these cards so let's say um hydrate i'm just going to add this to my cell order and i'm going to add a cookbook to my cell order as well and then i can go down here review order um and if i had more copies of these cards i could actually toggle the quantity and then just go ahead and confirm sell um right now you see a test currency that we're using but this will soon be died um you know for die just eliminates volatility for new users and it's just easier to understand than if they were needing to spend eth in the game um and yeah similarly um i can go and buy cards on the market um and yeah you know build decks uh collect decks any any of the silver cards i can play with trade or sell and then so beyond the silver cards we also have a game mode that we'll soon be introducing called conquest and conquest you can enter with either one silver card or one die and if you lose your first match you lose your stake but if you win your first match you win one silver card if you win two matches you win two silver cards and if you win all three matches in a conquest you win one silver card and one limited supply gold card and gold cards again they're same mechanically as a silver or a base but they're they're rarer and they're cosmetically enhanced as well and again with these you can play with them you can put them in your deck you can trade them uh or you can sell them and so what's super interesting about skyriver or one of the many things is that all cards are generated by players through gameplay and in fact horizon isn't selling any cards um so they're all generated through gameplay the silvers are generated through ranking highly on the leaderboard and then also through conquest and then goals are only generated via conquest um yeah so that's kind of like an overview of the whole thing it's all like down here we have this wallet built in this is um something we built earlier on but we'll soon be releasing sequence and sequence is the infrastructure platform and user-friendly smart wallet that we've built at horizon it provides a seamless user and developer experience for ethereum really allowing any web application to integrate with blockchain and a few lines of code so that's all i'll say about sequence for now because we haven't like released all the info about it but stay tuned for that and it's it's what powers sky weaver uh and makes it all possible and yeah i mean there's like all the artworks original obviously all the sound um sound effects everything so yeah that's that's like an overview of what we're doing at uh verizon how about bots so so i'm going through my list being a good game it's a good game right you you've checked off the first thing uh going going through like looking about what makes blockchain special that a lot of this is just ownership on blockchain game on the server kind of stuff but how do you deal with bots have you had bots like in here is it profitable to be a bot and and play this game how does that work um yeah so for context we're still in an invite only private beta um and we're gearing up to go on uh well we're already on maddox main net but we're using like fake contracts and stuff but so we'll be essentially like on main net as you might traditionally say in the coming months and in terms of bots the way we've done it with our economy design um there certainly could be bots that play but you know in order to rank highly on the leaderboard you have to be fairly skilled and similarly in conquest like you have to stake something to compete right so it's you know if you're a bot and you want to stake silver cards and then if you lose you're you're out i mean that's you know you could program your bot to do that but it's not as much of a risk of an exploit on our end um so that's it's through the uh economy design that were um yeah treating the bot situation awesome so it sounds like uh if i'm following correctly here i apologize i've been uh sort of half in and half out trying to fix this pop issue but it sounds like the way the gameplay is sort of uh designed here is that with how you delineate between silver and gold is that with the silver cards it allows you to have a much more even playing field for newcomers uh kind of in relation to the question that was first asked with um x infinity right so there isn't this uh especially for like the ogs of the game that have been here forever if someone were to just come in day one they're they're not at this huge disadvantage right totally yeah yeah exactly because like you could unlock all the base cards through gameplay and that'll take you a bit of time and some skill but if you want to you know get on a level or playing field you can buy silver cards from other players selling them on the market or you could buy the ball cards too they would just be likely more expensive and for the most part the gold cards it's really more of a not to uh you know dismiss it to its simplest form but it's more of a collector's thing it's not like it's going to help you in the game it's a flex correct right yeah it's like it's a rare item that you could have only won through conquest or you had to buy it from another player but it doesn't give you any gameplay advantage and um that's that's actually one of our design goals is like ensuring that it's not pay to win and making the gameplay really accessible so that anyone with skill can um excel on the leaderboards and excel in terms of winning rewards now do you do um this really goes to both you michael and uh uh axey over here is that do you guys do uh like community led tournaments is it or is it strictly just uh like traditional game play yeah so um actually like even in our private beta we've had i think seven or eight community-led tournaments um some with uh actually a number of them with third-party sponsorship the group community gaming um really cool really cool platform that they've built for payouts uh with respect to like paying out crypto to players wallets etc um and and yeah so we've had seven or eight of those and we fully fully support those you know and are always excited to see the community organize themselves that way right right absolutely that's awesome yeah we've definitely seen i i think that you know blockchain esports um you know competitive gaming i think goes really well you also have i think what's uh you know what's important what's interesting is right if you have all these billion dollar protocols right and then we're just like you know these small little applications um kind of that are yeah maybe you know not in the spotlight of ethereum often right but one way right is like you know those those billion dollar protocols the maker foundation right um kyber um yeah a lot you know a lot of these projects they're always looking for really strong communities to engage with and so if you can you know build up a strong game for your community you know i think these other these d5 protocols will look at you as a distribution channel for their token right so it's how you can get some dye for tournaments right we um you know i think we've given out you know over 20 000 die for for for tournaments and there are a bunch of communities with social tokens so yeah i think i think you know that's uh it's really it's really a good fit totally that's awesome so just a real quick update here uh for those uh waiting on the pull-up uh we're gonna do a slight audible here and what we're going to do is i'm going to ask those that are watching the live stream just make any comment any comments at all in the comments section and what you'll do is you'll go to the e-staker website at eathstaker.ccslash denver and just put the username that you submitted your comment with and your eth wallet address and it will automatically deposit a uh event pull out for you that is staker dot cc slash denver and hopefully there are less than a thousand people manually deliver that's what i say about my live streams yeah mono mesa from the bright id program wanted to be sure that he got his and uh bright id is something that we are a big fan of so check out bright id uh and let's get mona misa a co-app thank you thank you michael and jiho for showing us these games uh i think that we should do a quick look at my screen here let me move this over here before jonathan is so quick to pull it up the i have just dab radar i feel like there are so many other games that we should point out we should just say that there are games out there and i think another little key thing here is that games kind of started with hey cryptokitties figured out nfts so we're gonna make this like enter through the gift shop kind of experience where you basically landed on the page and you bought these nfts and and hopefully that funds the the team to build something but it wasn't as cool as uh oh we're gonna get a bunch of comments as i was gonna have it wasn't it wasn't as cool as a real game and so i just want to scroll through just like looking at these blockchain games there's a ton more that are coming out that you should keep an eye on we like disclaimer we're not gamers we're not geniuses we're just trying this stuff out we're blockchain builders but just kind of like looking through some of these other uh the sandbox is one that i'm kind of excited about coming out looks really neat there's a ton of other games here jump on uh neon district is beautiful looking right the aesthetic so just check out a lot of other games we're certainly not giving you the full exact picture we're trying to explore what makes blockchain games unique and and we're lucky enough to have uh these these great uh presenters here helping us out i think we're about to dive into east denver or not we're about to dive into dark forest but i wanted to look at this so my buddy let me pull up paul my buddy paul gotti he's working on i think it's like game js he's working on a library to make games but i i was on a live stream with him and we were talking about what made these collectibles what made these games so special and you probably can't see this but he has this really cool and it's a lot more than you think like games games mean a lot more they mean a lot to people and if we get in here that like fulfilling needs help solving problems overcoming challenges but it gets into like you know good aesthetic pleasures and and souvenirs right and evoking daydreams and addressing insecurities isn't that beautiful evoking daydreams and addressing insecurities i love that that is like poetry right that's there's a lot here to to like why these games are so important and why these collectibles when someone says like why do you own an nft why why look at this dope nft by the way it's like it's like a 3d rendering of like a room and there's a light outside of it and and the lights like rotating around the room yeah yeah i'll buy that for one eve okay so let's see exchange a streak there's so much good stuff here i just wanted to kind of like point out that like we're not just screwing around here right there's a lot of heart in this and there's there's a lot of interesting psychology that goes into like what makes a good game and and thank you paul for for uh surfacing that to me but i think we're probably about ready to break into some good old-fashioned dark forest action and we can we can quit sharing my screen i don't think i'm going to be the guy i i don't know who is i think that's why we have super fizz here right good looks i want to begin by saying thank you to anvedica and brunito and defy dude for helping us get the po app squared away um it took an army but uh now we do have the poep bot working i just claimed mine and that's really all that matters um the correct claim code is uh is it the dark forest all one word by messaging that bot michael do you need to give better instructions than i give because i right so we can it either will work right so the easiest uh the url to join the estate care discord is invite dot gg slash eath staker you'll join the po-op channel and all the instructions to interact with the po potter in there and what was the key word the dark forest all one word the dark first one word wait v you added a d to it yes well bernido added a b but it works the dark forest all one word got it i mean i've got mine so i mean we can shut the bot down now we're good scarcity right okay who's doing again you got it you got it yeah so let me begin by saying i'm not a gamer so any of you who know me like i am obsessed with e2 i am the guy who spends all day long uh begging people to do client diversity to use you know like nimbus and teku instead of using prism if you're a staker and i'm begging you you know don't don't stick with an exchange because it's bad for decentralization don't use pools yet because they're likely to disappear with your funds or mismanage them or get slashed so solo staking wait until pools are mature give them till june and then you know stake with a pool uh yeah so that's who i am i gave you everything about super fizz in 30 seconds i'm not a gamer i don't i don't really so i i have spent years looking for a game that would steal my mind and like just give me something to chew on at night and nothing has really done that um i guess in i don't know i i played with the third dark forest beta and it was okay like it was great but the fifth beta changed absolutely i'm sorry it's an alpha i believe the fifth uh dark forest version that we're playing with right now changed all the rules for me and it's because of one of those things that austin showed on that original slide um and that was the extensibility thing uh the plug-ins so uh let me think about how to do this i think you uh mis-said addiction the addictions yeah so let all of january like i i i try to spend time on reddit uh supporting people in each staker and on the discord and i i do this uh really um well produced but terribly created uh youtube series called state of the state michael is my producer i'm the content i didn't do that in january i didn't care um i you know i i had a family but i didn't really speak to them in january because all i could do was uh dark force it's one of those things where uh i sit down at nine o'clock i'm so jealous i wanted dos equis amber i sit down at nine o'clock and i'm gonna play dark forest for 30 minutes and then it's 3 a.m and i'm like i i really have to stop if i if i don't get two hours of sleep now i'm not gonna make it through the day tomorrow but let me just do one more thing yeah so it is that kind of game for me uh and i will tell you that on vedica is it your twitter is on vedica or in vedica.eth it's just a vatican okay so uh everyone in the world can dm on vatica on twitter right now he has four um four dark forest keys to give away um let's get one we'll hit you up you have more i never had so much power yeah so uh what i'd like to do let me can i share i haven't tried screen sharing i want to make sure i share the right one super fizz you're so behind the curve we've all been screen sharing jonathan's got us my shirt my screen is still shared open it up already jonathan are you having a beer out there you bet your butt okay before i actually demo dark forest i want to show you where i'm starting i'm starting with a brand new raw fresh chrome browser i don't have metamask um and i'm going to go to gkga.me and start and fresh start what and the thing i want to demonstrate here is most things that i interact with require metamask um and i am a huge metamask fan but some guy and i don't think any of us knows who he is but he developed this uh browser integration where you can host a wallet in the browser and interact directly with the chain uh and it's seamless you okay austin yeah so austin yes so it's dope i how old is the burner wallet uh eat denver 2018 we debuted burner wallet we bought 3 000 meals at food trucks with it with everything yeah i remember that i wasn't there but i remember watching and installing and trying to get all of my friends to install burner wallets on their phones and i'm like you got to back this up you don't lose it and i'm sure they lost it but that's how friends work right i had a lot of wallets that i exchanged funds on uniswap with and that worked out and you notice when gas gets high like i love that whole transition uh i love the stepwise transition on the interface sorry this is about dark forest um look at dylan phil dillon right is like number one one the first that's the creator of figma we're not effing around here we got some galaxy brains that we're playing against yeah field of competitors is totally crazy smart so i'm going to import a private key here because it already has a couple die in it uh xdi in it um if you begin the game they're going to with a fresh key i think they're going to give you about a nickel of x die um super fizz can you zoom in there so we can see your text yeah uh okay i need to modify that key because it requires ox and then i will zoom in all right so great so i'm importing an account and i you have to have a whitelist key right now to play the game and i've heard that they're like 30 of the way through their lips i'm going to break the next step like the it's it's just it's the the traffic is crazy okay so the two pieces of information that are required are um well you don't have to create a wallet it will create one for you but as i said i imported one to have because i want to demo some stuff five cents a nickel of x die is enough to play this game all night long um if you are familiar with honey swap if you're not familiar with honey swap you should go check out the honey faucet on the x die network and what you're going to get from that is a a faucet every 48 hours that's going to give you about 12 cents of this stuff called honey that you can then honey swap into x die and that's six cents in x die a day to play um as much dark forest as you can play that's so much better than swapping from mainnet into xdi because then you're looking at anywhere between like eight and thirty dollars in fees um just use honey swap uh and i mentioned bright id earlier we're going to try this again i promise this does work oh no do we need to send a different white key i can send you a different white list if we need sometimes they i've noticed before they didn't they don't pick up the first time if this is a problem we'll try a different one but i'm happy to uh i'm not stressed about it we'll be fine we're gonna generate a new yep import key so while this is happening this could be a good segue for this so we can we like zoom out and we've had a good spectrum of like side chains layer two like for again those just entering yeah those those entering the whole ecosystem what does that really mean though right so what do we we get that we're offloading processes from ethereum but what are the differences so if i'm new what's the difference between a side chain and a roll up and some of these other layer two solutions i think really security concerns is where we start with there right like what what is the consensus model of each chain and how does it how much how much proof of work protects it if it is proof of work or or you know like what is the hash rate of bitcoin and that is the security right that is all these people trying to mine this this block at the same time now when we pull back from that a little bit we we take ethereum currently proof of work we have a consensus mechanism uh it's working really well but it's very expensive to make that transaction on ethereum right what what these side chains do is they take this evm compatibility so you can basically just take the satellite that you were deploying to a test net point it point it at main net and deploy or point it at a side chain and it's going to be the exact same thing to you as a as a builder but as the new person coming in they're going to see all your smart contracts they're going to interact with it but it's going to be fast it's going to be cheap it's going to be all of the things that sort of a web 2 game needs to feel like but it's going to be incompatible so eventually when we do get the scalability working all of this can just go to a shard somewhere that isn't as expensive right does that probably doesn't quite answer it but let's say that's the first answer maybe like lean into it a little bit if you have more questions so it's not like if i'm if if i'm uh regardless of what i'm interacting with whether it's a game or a defy app or whatever it is with all these different solutions that are helping the application scale out and add functionality whether that be speed security whatever that may be me is the user i don't necessarily have to keep track of these threats right it's not like i have to know what the underpinnings of of it's making all these different hops in the back end right it just all i need to know is that it's helping me process these things cheaper in different security levels and faster right yep yep exactly you as the user i mean we we saw earlier both both sky weaver and axe infinity just feel so web too they feel so good they they feel so they're so crisp and beautiful and clean and fast and that's what users expect right and that's just not how mainnet ethereum works right now so i think that the the what what you're talking about is we have to fill something in to give them that experience that they're expecting or they're going to be completely out and something weird here about dark forest as you see from the screen they particularly leaned into the weirdness they they leaned into the ascii they tried to make it like kind of complicated looking and kind of nerdy looking kind of console looking and and you know the wait list is around the block but definitely believe that sorry go ahead no quiet i believe i'm sharing the right screen i'm doing from a drop down select um i was let me check that one more time i um should i should i be trying to get should i be trying to get no so i mean to be honest i'm not no i i have another screen up um what i wanted to show was the beginning dialogue um yeah because how many times have you already exposed two the one in five i exposed right now i am attempting to share my um dark forest screen i'm using the shared dialogue on this page so if i think that maybe justin needs to turn on my screen share jonathan jonathan jonathan i'm sorry i don't say suggest actually super fizz no you don't see that i'm sharing it no i'm trying it said that it was shared and then i have to break the fourth wall again uh austin can you send me the remaining uh keys to give away because my uh twitter is ready to reply wait how does that break the fourth wall the fourth wall would be like you're like when someone talks to the audience where i went with it's what i would want it'd be more like who do we know that's watching someone that we know it's watching be like me looking at her sure that's breaking the fourth i just broke the facade right like i'm no longer presented yeah yeah sure uh i'm processing a key maybe we can wait wait what was the question i'm sorry i got so mixed up with the fourth wall so i think so that we we announced that we were going to give away keys and if they dm me i just need those keys real quick all right so i'm going to send you four and i'm going to have four and split your dms between me and on vedica and we will send you the first four oh here we go okay all right so this is this is an advanced screen yeah this is not what i intended to show i really wanted to show the beginning um and uh if someone wants to mount a a uh beginner screen that would be very fun um so one of the things and i've been focused on this for a few minutes i didn't have an opportunity to really dive in or didn't pay too much attention to the conversation dark forest is not as fast paced as the other games that were demoed tonight it is much more of a strategy game uh and one of the first things you'll see when you zoom out it's this giant hat and so hats i want to do this first because hats are really an important thing hats are an opportunity for you to send value to the creators of the game and so when you get in the game i know this is your first view but uh let me show you how easy it is to buy a hat for that planet and with this one die goes to the developers i think it's a great way to support them we talked about the burner wallet it's a browser integrated wallet and it's something that austin uh is is totally responsible for are you totally responsible for information uh and so well it's funny you say infamous because it is it is a what is commonly referred to as a a potential uh browser vulnerability vector but for small value things like this kind of game it's uh it's absolutely perfect so uh and i i mean to say that it's a potential vulnerability vector it has not it hasn't been compromised it's just um maybe not best practice for a whole lot of value so if i would not you know really keep a key with five hundred dollars in this but for twenty dollars to play dark forest it's it's absolutely a great deal so again uh buying hats is the way if you want to get in here and support the developers there is no real like at this moment there is no in-game economy where you are spending a bunch of money to buy different different assets the gameplay is essentially free the only cost you're paying is to use the x9 network and those transactions are fractions of a penny so like i said if you get six cents from the honey swap faucet um then that sixth sense is gonna get you a day of play at least um are those so cats uh nfts uh no the hats are really just donations uh you know you don't keep them uh well you know it's based on the design of the game i think it's possible that they could actually be nfts uh but i'm not i'm not inherently aware that they are okay uh what i really want to do i want to zoom in on a planet that you might start the game from there we go zoom in and pretend like we're brand new i'm so i'm actually talking to brian goo the one of the creators and he's re he's kicking one of the servers that lets the keys it's basically the whitelist server so maybe we'll maybe we'll get in anyways okay so when you when you start the game you're gonna see something like this and the first time i fired this up i was like eh unimpressed and i it really took me a long time to even understand zooming out i would see what looks like this massive planet and i'm like oh wow i could never take this planet uh what you're gonna do from a planet that you own is send energy sending energy is one of the main gameplay mechanics for this game and so uh my game my all of my planets are going to be surrounded in a white halo so let me find one of my planets uh again zooming out that i love to say zoom out about life and about everything but when you zoom out you see how much there really is to offer and so when you start and you see this tiny planet and then you might start dragging your mouse to see more of the world and you think you're making a lot of progress but then you zoom out to see the entire world and realize that what you were looking at was really just a tiny tiny drop in the bucket and so the universe is the universe is the sphere that is controlled by a contract that expands with the number of new users when you begin you don't really see a lot of the world you need to use uh this neat version of a miner i actually got one to work hey nice do you want to share and we can talk about it or should i uh let's see if it comes up so yeah i mean maybe i i've got it up on my screen here if jonathan wants to bring it in oh yeah we're generating planet ids it's happening the initial gameplay of this definitely reminds me of i don't know if any of you have remembered this game it used to be an early ios game it was called uh osmos or yeah osmos and i love the sense of scale that this game sort of brings in parallel where you you think you're really huge and then all of a sudden you start to discover universe this is definitely kind of runs a parallel in that sense where you realize just how insignificant you are in relation to the the rest of the game and how expansive this is michael is telling us he needs to bounce in just a minute um michael it was absolutely great having you uh we loved learning more about sky weaver yeah thanks for having me guys it's really a pleasure chatting with you and hopefully everyone in the audience enjoyed um yeah for anyone interested they can just go to skyriver.

net and sign up for the waitlist and uh yeah we'll be going on to name that pretty soon awesome great thanks again thanks guys take care so now it's just three of us just and only two of us have beer oh i'm going on like three years well getting i mean here there we go we're getting planted ids uh so this find a home planet let's go um i i dove in really quickly and i really want to share this with new people for the first time the universe is huge but when you begin you only see a tiny tiny portion of that universe one of the things i love about it is there's a the extensibility um the extensibility is what got me hooked because it's the game starts with a browser miner and with the browser miner you can expose i call it mining you can mine uh views of the earth our views are the universe that are controlled by zk snarks and they're kind of like uh if you imagine well sniper i can explain anything i may not be right but i can definitely explain anything uh at any rate you you do hash uh to view larger parts of the universe and with the browser miner your view expands very slowly one of the extensibility options is to set up a mining server um i actually have one that is my mining server thanks bendorf um i've heard that from my buddy bendorf it was our filecoin miner that we i converted into my uh um don't tell forest miner it's more profitable and um so that the uh the minor the it's it's built it's written in rust and it's really fast and so it exposes much more out of community not a dark forest person a total community yeah so it's it's written by a community member and actually somebody who's written a lot of these plugins uh so to find out more you can go to their discord and look at the plugins channel uh while we're waiting for these plants to show up and the reason this is taking so long to load is because so many people have explored so many planets that have so much metadata uh that it all needs to load before the game starts um and my machine has to crunch on it basically the the universe exists but it doesn't exist until you look at it right you have to you have to reveal it there has to be this discovery process oh no wait is that are we good are we good get out of here kitty i just have to enable pop-ups you panicked oh yeah and this is the first i remember talking to brian about this when when you use a burner wallet and you just do transactions for people the psychology there is i don't know what's going on you have to like present them with this first to be like yo we're going to be sending transactions on your behalf and you can sit here and click approve all you want or you can kind of just like put that on on autopilot right uh i think maybe i messed something up there you didn't click the button okay transaction submitted so that that that pop-up that you saw that was very meta mask-like hopefully oh man here we go this game is worth it that's all i can tell you so okay let's let's dig into that a little bit more too so we we talked about the zk snarks in relation to this one we talked about uh ronin ronin yeah for uh axi we talked about um which one was sky weaver what were they using i forgot medic yes matic geez uh so we got zk snarks then in dark forest so this is now another different scaling iteration for blockchain and this is effectively what we were talking about this is one of many common threads within these blockchain games is that it's uh you know for those of you waiting for this for this live stream to come out in english all that effectively means it's just another technology uh used in order to offload transactions from the main chain to make things faster cheaper for the gameplay to actually exist that way you're not paying you know 150 dollars to take over a planet or to make a single move